The Germany Expat Business Show
A podcast that shares knowledge, stories and inspiration for anyone starting, running or growing a business as a non-German in Germany.
The Germany Expat Business Show
Insights and Advice on Entrepreneurship and Legal Solutions in Germany with Olivia Marcu-Iordanescu
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I became familiar with Olivia and her work through the WEM Facebook Group (Women Entrepreneurs in Munich). It was clear to me from the jump that she’s a go-getter. We had a coffee chat and then we actually met in person at the I Am Expat fair in Berlin in the summer of 2024.
Olivia Marcu-Iordănescu is an attorney-at-law known for leading corporate projects for 15+ years. She is the founder of spotlegal.io, the legal solutions platform for small businesses.
After moving to Germany with her husband and their three kids, she opened her own law office where she helps coaching and consulting professionals launch and grow their online business, with tailored legal solutions, so they can thrive fast and confidently.
In this episode we talk about :
- Her journey from corporate life in Bucharest's corporate to founding her own legal platform, Spot Legal, in Germany.
- How and she got the idea for her business Spot Legal and how she can leverage her professional legal qualifications within her home country of Romania, the EU and Germany
- I asked about strategies for selecting the right legal jurisdictions and we discussed how Spot Legal's tailored templates make legal services more accessible to freelancers worldwide.
- The ideal customer for her legal contracts
- How she is different from other contract/legal start-ups out there with things like contract flat rate offers.
- How she markets her business
- The challenges and opprotunities of building a business in Germany
- Lessons learned, and advice she has for other expat entrepreneurs in Germany.
Part of Olivia’s personal story stresses the importance of patience and the iterative process of identifying and understanding your target audience, not only in Germany, but also in a global market.
As most of us know, building a business in Germany comes with a very specific set of challenges. Like so many other guest on the podcast Olivia highlighted the significance of networking.
Finally, she shared her thoughts on balancing personal and professional life, particularly as a parent. Our conversation concluded with a hopeful look at the potential for growth in the German market (especially with the impact of AI).
Here’s where you can find Olivia:
https://spotlegal.io
https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliviaiordanescu/ https://www.instagram.com/olivia.iordanescu/
You can find this episode and all episodes as well as show notes for each at https://thegermanylist.de/the-germany-expat-business-show-podcast/
Starting or running a business in Germany as a foreigner? Already running an online business in Germany as an expat? Wanting to grow your German-based business? Working as a freelancer in Germany? You'll love my guide with over 30 resources for expat business owners in Germany.
Hi, I'm Eleanor Meyerhofer, a native Californian designer and digital strategist. In October of 1999, a few years after graduating from design school, I flew from San Francisco to Munich with a fistful of Deutschmarks, a dial-up connection and an extremely vague plan. Twenty-plus years later, after a 10-year stint at a global agency agency freelancing and launching two online businesses, I'm still here Now I'm talking to other expat business owners to share knowledge, stories and inspiration for other non-Germans running businesses in Germany. I am here with Olivia Yordnescu, who I know, but never say her last name. I know her through WEM and we met at a conference in June, and I'm going to ask you, olivia, the question I ask everybody on this podcast, which can you tell me the two-minute story of how you ended up in Germany?
Speaker 2:in Germany. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's so, so nice to be with you. You're doing a really great job with the podcast and I'm happy that such a podcast exists in Germany. So thank you for that. And you just pronounced my name perfectly. I love it. I love the sound of it from you, from your mouth, but how the two-minute story is.
Speaker 2:Germany was never on our list, so to say so. My husband and I had three kids and then, when our oldest son was coming of school age, so to say, we decided this is the time to move abroad. We've always wanted to do this, both of us. But, you know, after we met, we fell in love and it was all butterflies and somehow the abroad plan came last. Then we had kids, but we thought, you know, this is the time to do it. If we don't do it now, it's never going to happen. And so we started looking at the UK and the Netherlands, because they're both speaking English, mainly Right, and Germany was never on our list. But that's what happened for my husband's career. The opportunity came from Germany, and it really sounded crazy at the time, but I said what the hell, let's do it, you know, and it just worked out. Everything worked out, and I'm glad we did this, because we really really love Germany.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you're originally from Romania, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm originally from Romania, my husband is Romanian and yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1:Okay, so sorry. It's been how many years that you've been here? Total Five, five. Okay, okay, so not forever.
Speaker 2:It was right before the pandemic. Sorry, I just wanted to say that, yeah, because it was an interesting experience for us here. I mean we enjoyed it. We had so much freedom we could go outside with nature, right, it was nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could do that. That's true, and you live. Sorry, you don't live here, you live in Stuttgart, around Stuttgart, correct?
Speaker 2:I live in. The rheinland falls close, okay, so it's called the rhein neckar christ. Okay, okay, okay all right, um.
Speaker 1:So yes, everywhere in germany there is like usually some beautiful nature to get to, and I think that made the pandemic easier to deal with for a lot of us. Okay, but let's talk about your business. You have a business called Spot Legal and you have a background as a lawyer, so why don't you? You're the like second lawyer I've talked to in the last couple months, so why don't?
Speaker 2:you tell me about how you got the idea for your business and what it is. Yeah, so I came from corporate. I worked 14 years in Bucharest in multinational corporations and in my last role I was head of legal for a multimedia channel company and when I came to Germany I was still working for this company from this role, managing a team, and we were also really in the midst of being acquired, actually raising funding from the Blackstone Investment Fund, and we were house searching, my husband and I, in Germany and at the same time managing this transaction for my company, which was like a roller coaster. But just having that experience of doing a project of this size was really inspiring to me, like what I'm able to do and I could do this on a bigger scale for more clients. And I think there was a turning point there because I gave up my corporate job, which was nicely paid, and I had plenty of challenge professionally, even in the coming future, so to say, to start my own law practice, whatever that looked like right.
Speaker 2:The idea itself of the platform, of the Spot Legal Dial platform with the legal templates, came to me from the fact that there were a lot of people calling me throughout my career asking me for templates.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've had from CFOs to founders to other lawyers. Everyone was calling me to say like, hey, olivia, can you share with me a template of the X agreement? And I was like, yeah, sure, here it is, you know. And at some point I was like, yeah, I mean, that means either two of one of two things First of all, they're good, they like using them, they're simple, right, they're straightforward, they know my work and they rely on the quality of the template. And second, there's a need for this and you know, people don't have anywhere to turn to. And that's how the idea of the spot legalio platform started, and I launched it in 2022, while I was here in Germany and I had already left my corporate job, and at the same time, I launched my own law office, my own practice, out of Germany, which seemed really difficult in the beginning, but, as it turns out, yeah, it wasn't that much of a big deal, so to say.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just want to clarify. So when you were still in Bucharest, you were head of legal at a corporate, like a corporate job, but you also had your own company as well in Romania. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I started all of this while being in Germany, after moving to Germany.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so I'm curious who were the people asking you for templates Like?
Speaker 2:I said CFOs. There were co-workers, people who have been my colleagues but have left and started their own businesses, other lawyers.
Speaker 1:But these were people in Romania or people in Germany, people in.
Speaker 2:Romania. At the time. I was still living there when I got the idea, but I only implemented it when I moved to Germany.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay. And were you who was your target audience when you started Spot Legal?
Speaker 2:That came later. Like I started to work on the product and to really define who would this be for, and all of this after I launched. I know it sounds crazy, but in the beginning I didn't have such a clear idea of what I want to do with the platform, how it's going to, who is it for. I didn't have all of this figured out, but I was also at a point where you know I just have to do it and I didn't know I was going to figure it out, because I remember when I launched I was really stuck and scared and like I don't have all these answers right. Like I don't have all these answers Right.
Speaker 2:And it was interesting because a lot of the business advisory, coaches and whatnot right that were available like in the pandemic, there was like a growing right Offer of these type of services and I I had my share of business consultancy, I had my share of business mentors and coaches and so on, and everyone was kind of pushing for this who is your ideal client? Who is this for? And I know myself from experience working with startups. It's super important to at least have that minimum viable product and I kind of had the product but I didn't know who it's for and I figured this out along the way, basically.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then my question is like you know, all legal and tax stuff is, like many other entrepreneurs, very scary to me, like many other entrepreneurs, very scary to me. And so what? One of the things that's confusing for me as a person whose business is based in Germany but I do a lot of remote work for people all over the world it's like contract law. Like first of all, every country is different. Like what, how do you, how do you know what, what country, to get your contract in and where it's valid. Like I just finished a project for a client in California and like there's some line in the contract I have that's like it will be determined by a court in Bavaria, which I'm like I hope nothing happens because I have no idea how that's supposed to work. Like how does that even work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a great, great question and you are right in saying that. You know it's different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We say basically from country to country. And even in Germany, because it's a federal state like and there are several states within the federal areas have been harmonized and there are rules and regulations. The national factor, the national element, the local element is still very relevant and important.
Speaker 2:And how do you scale a business? And when we talked a little bit about the preparation, or we wrote about the preparation of this interview, you did mention there that you would ask me how is this different from other legal templates, businesses or legal solutions that are now present in the market? I think this is where I come in, because I do have this international experience and because I have worked with corporate clients in-house. It's not strange to me, actually, that was my day-to-day. How do I make the solution of this local player an internationally viable solution? So, to come back to your question, the rule of thumb is, especially if you're a freelancer right, and at the end of the day you don't have a legal entity, they're a limited liability company that protects you and your personal assets and separates that from the business. It's really, really important all the time to go for the law of the place of business, so where you are located, because that's where you can get access to legal protection in principle quickly. There are challenges to that, even in Germany, I have to admit In the sense that I still myself have the experience, and I know my clients have this experience that legal services are not very accessible. And I don't necessarily mean the price by that, but like where do I find a lawyer, you know, and where do I find an expert that can help me, a specialist? You know that that kind of of challenge so you know you don't want to. Let's take an example, like in your case you are based in Munich, right In Bavaria, and your client is based in the USA.
Speaker 2:And I could say, eleanor, go for UK law. It's the most friendly jurisdiction, it's also the most popular jurisdiction. I know this from experience. Right, because what's really nice about the common law approach is that you can really agree a lot of the things by in contract. That's the law of the parties, right, but then you're and then say something bad happens.
Speaker 2:You're not getting paid by your client. Are you going to sue them in a court in london? Yeah, or I don't know, yeah, and then hire a lawyer there, and then it ends up costing a fortune. Of course that's reckless and you want to bring them as close as possible to yourself, like that. That's, that's the spirit. Then, of course, comes the question of is this court going to accept a contract that it's in English and not in German? So you know, there's many sides to it and that's why, at the end of the day, I can say this is the solution for you, a legal templates form. The intention is to kind of walk the clients through a journey where I get to be closer to them in understanding their business what's their factual situation, but also like what are their plans going forward, what do they want to achieve, and actually offer a tailored service to them.
Speaker 1:So that's a good segue into let's talk about, like, how your contracts and your offers work. So I, you know, if we go to your site and we'll put this all in the show notes and I buy a contract, say for a web designer, like how, how does the whole process work?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you can just purchase the template. This has happened. And then the customer doesn't want anything to do with me. It's fine, because that's why I started the thing in the first place. Remember, like people were just asking for templates, okay, sure, here it is. And, like I said, there's been customers who've done just that. They purchased a non-disclosure agreement or an associate coach agreement or whatever. It was a one-time thing and that's one option, because you get a document, the ad document, that you can then populate with your company details or freelancing details, and there's some instructions that you get as well.
Speaker 2:You're not completely, you know, alone in this and there's always customer support and you can reach out if you get really, really stuck. And then there is the option where you buy a bundle, and the bundles are basically conceived for freelancers and startup businesses who are just launching. They're in the very early stage and this is a more comprehensive package of what they need in order to launch. And this isn't a full service, but there is a touch of customization that is included in this tools in their practice, like a multi-modal, so to say, practice where you do trainings, you do corporate engagements, you do speaking engagements, you do coaching, you combine all these tools and then there I try to give a little bit of support in how to actually implement the documents, because it's not that straightforward, right?
Speaker 2:And then there are people who just don't want to do it themselves and they need the the support and they want to. Actually, they want it's not that they don't want to do it themselves, they want to have that peace of mind that whatever was done, it was done by a qualified attorney and, yeah, they just want to have that for themselves. In the spot legalio platform that's working one-on-one with me, where we have an onboarding call, I really get to understand the business, like you know all the, all the facets, so to say, and it may be that the bundle is enough and I do myself, or the older customization, or it may be that there's something else there. Like, for instance, they need a compliance program on the privacy side because they're building an app or a software as a service that entails processing of personal data and we need to build a little bit more in the background, in the backend of the business. Not only you know website terms and things like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, a couple of questions. Okay, so just to clarify, so when you buy a template, when a person buys a template, they in essence get a file like an editable file. Yeah, exactly Okay. And then, just as you're talking, I'm thinking the last, yeah, exactly, with professional qualifications. So do you have to have, like German qualifications to do this work in Germany, or are your Romanian qualifications okay? Because of the type of law, like that's a big hurdle for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Yes. So it really depends on whether or not there are two criteria. First one is do you have a professional title in your home country which basically says you are a qualified attorney, member of a regulated profession? In my case, we're called avocat, not rechtsanwalt or rechtsanwältin, and so you first need to have this. And second, you submit like a whole dictation to the local bar association where you want to practice, and they have to assess whether or not they are taking you in.
Speaker 2:Now, this assessment, while it's dependent on you submitting the relevant documentation and that's not rocket science, right? You just provide whatever proof you have from your local bar association, and so on and so forth, it's still discretionary, so to say so I can't tell you, yeah, you will be 100% accepted, but the legislation for attorneys, for qualified attorneys, has evolved a lot in the sense that it's a liberal profession and no one can tell you you cannot practice as a lawyer if you already obtained that title, wherever you are in the world. Basically, and I think that's such an accomplishment for the legal profession and it's yeah, it's really good that this is possible now, which was not possible 10 years ago, right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, if I heard you correctly, you have to submit all your paperwork and they may or may not accept you, but there's no hard and fast rule, like you said, it's discretionary. So that is fascinating to me because like, at least in Bavaria they were so, and I'm talking about our Eltern initiative, like we wanted to hire kindergarten teachers and they would not recognize foreign, like people that led schools in the UK. I mean, we're not talking about people that just schools in the UK. I mean, we're not talking about people that just fell off the apple truck and it was really. It was very frustrating about how stubborn.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's just a Bavarian thing, but and then I've worked with a lot of people that are therapists and they have their qualifications from California again not like you know somewhere and they're not recognized here. Although, to be fair, in the States you have to do have to. Each state has to recognize it. So it's just in the, in these professional, these professions, where you have to have certain qualifications. It just it's very interesting to me about what you can and cannot do where and what you can call yourself and all this. But so, if I understand you right, you are allowed to practice law. So would you have been allowed to practice law even if you hadn't gone through this process?
Speaker 2:Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to set up a kanslei here in Germany. Have professional insurance here in Germany as a qualified attorney. I would be doing that from my law office in Romania while living in.
Speaker 2:Germany doing my tax statements and everything, of course, because I'm a resident here from a tax perspective, but I wouldn't be benefiting from all this legal fraud that is available in Germany for practicing the law.
Speaker 2:So I guess, at the end of the day, if you are a qualified attorney, I don't see this as an issue. Yes, of course, there is still this really tiny chance that they might say no, but it's actually not that arbitrary because there is a list of all qualified attorney professional titles from other states. It's not just an EU thing. For EU attorneys it is automatic. You still have to do the paperwork, but they take you in as European lawyer. But if you are an internet from another jurisdiction, then there is still this tiny tiny chance that they might say no, you're not fulfilling all the criteria. But there is a list and Laura knows this because I've talked to her about it and she has all these lawyer communities and we're trying to help as many as possible to get this sorted out and it's possible, it's totally doable and the legal profession has made a lot of advancements in this sense.
Speaker 1:Okay, now let me ask you a question so I'm going on some tangents here as not a lawyer, but as a businesswoman. You mentioned something like. That would be like running my law practice out of Romania. From what I understand, romania is an EU country with a much friendlier business climate, like less paperwork, so why wouldn't you just do that? Why wouldn't you just say I'm going to have this one euro game or whatever that you can get in Romania, and it's all easy, and it's like Estonia or one of these places that just makes it super easy to run your business and just live in Germany and run my you know, have my business space there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally. And I have to say that behind the platform, the spotlegalio platform, is a company in Romania, because in the beginning, when I launched the platform, I myself wasn't very familiar with the German system like 100%, and I was like you know what I'm just going to do? The simple thing I'm going to go in the jurisdiction that I already know and I incorporated there and I never changed it. And now I'm in a point stage in my business growth where I'm considering to found a company in Baden-Württemberg but that's another conversation, right, because of the opportunities that are available here. And it's not only that.
Speaker 2:Why I chose to do my consulate here and as a businesswoman, as you said, is, at the end of the day, I guess, to build that trust with the clients in the German market. It's not that I couldn't have practiced the law with my law office from Bucharest, of course I could have. Like I said, there's nothing, it's totally allowed. I would have had my taxes done from germany, everything would have worked out perfectly, but I still had that experience that you know it's. It's a, it's a different kind of trust that you can build in the german market when you are, you know, here, why do I keep getting the German words in this conversation. That's okay, get gründet, get gründet.
Speaker 1:In Danish Everybody knows it's fine. That's spoken on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just having a legal entity here being regulated by the professional body being regulated by the professional body, I'm also subject to the German Bar Association rule regulations, not just my home country, just to be clear, like I'm subject to both now, and I did this for my clients, I wanted them to feel that they can trust 100% the entire process and it's all.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay, um, which also then leads me to ask this question what percentage of your clientele is German versus foreign or European, or whatever?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I've had Romanian clients and foreign clients from the USA to Brazil too, but German 100% none.
Speaker 1:Okay, because I would be fine. It was like okay, this is like Bucharest, but she's here, like that would have bothered me.
Speaker 2:No, that's actually incorrect Because and you may know this already Part of the work that I do is a lot of mentoring for startups and in the past year I've become a mentor for campus founders. Tum, the Technical University of Munich, has an established, so to say, branch and yeah, they have been, in a way, so to say, my clients, and there's that part. But what I meant is, in the spotlegalio templates platform, I've never had any German clients, and the reason for that is it's not a platform for German speaking clients, it's a platform for international clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that's illuminating. So this isn't the sole thing you do. You also are a practicing lawyer in other advisory roles and like single roles, not just the templates. Okay, yeah, got it, got it. Okay, then that makes total sense. Yes, that makes total sense, okay. So how have you gotten the word out about your biz?
Speaker 2:I've. I've done a little bit of everything. It's like content marketing, networking in person or online. What else I've done? Email marketing I've done the whole spectrum, like tell me something that one could do. I'll do no, but I, I really enjoy this part of the business, which hasn't always been the cave right for for a long time I hated writing on social media and doing posts and things like that, but it's kind of become like oh, I need to drink a glass of water today. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah so is it. Is that different?
Speaker 1:I to this point.
Speaker 2:I haven't really made like a huge how to say?
Speaker 2:Separation.
Speaker 2:Of course, as I grow and the templates grow, the spot legal project grows and my cons lie grows, I do see that there's a need to separate the two.
Speaker 2:Of course, there is a need from the perspective of whatever I do in the templates platform. It's not legal advice per se, it's more going into the direction of education, and it's more going into the direction of education and, you know, raising awareness around what people need in their businesses when they start out, and there are specific rules about how you can market yourself as a lawyer, and so I have to kind of start drawing that line where it's more clear this is what legal advice looks like and what I can do for you as an attorney, and this is where you can buy a digital product from the platform and inform yourself about certain things, and that's it. So it's been kind of blurry up to this moment, I would say, but now I'm I'm starting to separate a little bit more of the projects, also in terms of the teams I want to build within each of them, and so, yeah, it's it's it's a new phase, so to say, starting to be a bit more there. There are more aspects to the growth of each business line, so to say.
Speaker 1:Okay, and the marketing? All of the vast array of marketing types you've done, is there one that's worked better than others or that you've enjoyed more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um, I mean, I'm starting to see the difference between them now and, like it's all about the clients that I'm working with and their needs understanding better, how I can serve them and meet them where they are, and this wasn't very clear in the beginning. Actually, my biggest challenge starting my own business in Germany was, apart from the yeah, bureaucratic and how do I set myself? What kind of entity do I use? Do I need to get registered with the bar? All of that we covered.
Speaker 2:The biggest challenge for me was how do I take this 14 years of experience where I've done a lot of different types of projects, from large portfolio management and transactions and corporate and commercial and I don't know what intellectual property and oh the, the GDPR? I was, you know, there when our company had to switch to this whole new set of rules and we had to become compliant, and it was crazy, but we did it, like everyone else. How do I take all of this and then, just, you know, put it in a business. It's simple Find your ideal client and you know it will all work out. No, that was my biggest challenge. I really didn't know how to translate, so to say, all the knowledge and expertise into something that is economically viable for the market now and marketed them as such. So I had to do a lot of trial and error, but I think what I got is I want spotlegalio to always be that instrument for freelancers and business owners who are launching a business out of Germany or out of any European country for that matter. And then the consulate becomes more of a specific project-based practice where I work on funding and transactions and, yeah, the more at the level of growth of the business where these people who have started out with spotlegalio can see a clear pathway for themselves to grow out of Germany internationally.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So that's the split. You have the spotlegalio and then the Kanzlei and that's how you. This is kind of out of left field, but do you worry about AI in your profession?
Speaker 2:I think worry is not necessarily my mindset a good description of my mindset towards it, but I do think a lot about how do I incorporate this in my work, and I'm actually working now with a PhD student in the technical university here in Germany and we are planning on bringing this AI functionality in the spotlegalio platform. It's just an odd thing. I can give a lot of detail about at the moment because you know it's an inception, so to say, commitment to incorporate it in such a way that we don't cross the line of what is actually legal advice. And this is not something to protect myself as a lawyer because I don't want to go out of business. I don't think that's going to happen. It's more in terms of how do I keep, preserve the legal protections that people have and still use the AI? With a qualified attorney, you have legal privilege, everything is private, it's confidential. This is something very precious in the relationship between the attorney and the client that you can actually model that idea you have before you launch in a safe environment.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you can't do that with an AI.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course not. The AI eats up everything. There's no copyright protection, there's nothing. Basically, you're just putting it out there.
Speaker 1:Okay, got it. So I mean we talked a little bit about your challenges, the challenges of building a business in Germany, all the qualifications and stuff, would you say there's also been opportunities here.
Speaker 2:I mean definitely being able to launch spotlegalio in Germany. I think would not have been possible if there was an opportunity on the German market. I think there's a huge opportunity on the German market, actually not just for non-Germans, but for Germans too, to grow internationally. It's more easier than ever, in fact, because you do have all these tools, including the AI, that make it possible for anyone to offer their services or products anywhere. It's just a question of you know do you have the right resources to do that and how much time do you want to spend on it? Do you want to do it by yourself or do you want to do it with experts who have been through that process and can share with you some of the steps and guide?
Speaker 1:Okay, and lastly, are there any lessons learned or things you would do over again or advice you have for anyone starting their own business here in Germany?
Speaker 2:Lessons learned. You know, just because something is in German, it doesn't mean it's not possible. And then, anything I would do differently. Anything I would do differently. Well, you know, I've tried so many things, like I did reach out for help, I did hire business advisors, I did talk to mentors, I did do my own research. I I really I don't think anything would have, you know, had a different turn. Um as far as I'm concerned, but um, it definitely um helped to have like an accountability structure.
Speaker 2:This is something that made a huge difference to me, because I'm also a mom, right and moving into Germany and trying to integrate the whole family yourself, your partner, the kids and to start a business On top of that. There were times where I was taking no action whatsoever, which was fine because I had a lot on my plate, but there were also working with coaches and advisors and talking to people made a difference in that sense that it always kept me somehow in the loop and, even if it wasn't a big step, that I was making a huge development, a huge progress. There was progress the whole time, and I think you have to be patient, like there's. Every person is where they are in their journey. It's just, it's your, it's your journey, it's so personal to you, um, and there's nothing wrong with that, um. And then it also helped me to be part of, to start going out of my bubble and network and meet people, and it took me a while to understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe this was the big lesson, so to say, I was so reliant on my network back in Romania and I was confident that. You know, I've worked for so many years, I'm a professional and I don't need to prove anything to anyone. But actually in the dream market, nobody knew me, so I had to build that up from scratch and it took me a while to understand that. But that would definitely be my best advice. You know, don't even build the business. Build your network first. Go ask some questions, see what people are complaining about, and then yeah, 100% thinking and starting a business.
Speaker 1:That's like a full time job right there just moving here. But also, you know, when you have kids it can be and you do have ambitions for a a business. It can be frustrating because sometimes things don't move as fast as you want or you can't do all the things. And when I have those moments I just try to remind myself like one day my daughter will be grown and I'm building the foundation now and I won't be starting from scratch later, when I have more time. So every little bit of progress is important. More time, so every little bit of progress is important.
Speaker 1:And what you said about networking I feel like when I went out on my own, I had already been here and worked here for 10, 11 years and I feel like that was my biggest asset not money, not whatever, but just like I had a huge network from working at agencies and agencies and then, like my husband's, my brother-in-law was a steward barater. That was worth its weight in gold. So, yeah, that was just getting out there and meeting. Everybody says that. Everybody I talk to on this podcast always says network, network, network. So on that note, I will say thank you very much for coming on and sharing your story today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, eleanor, for having me and I hope this, you know, makes a difference to everyone who is listening.
Speaker 1:Thank you, All right, well, thanks for coming on, olivia. Bye, thanks for listening. You can find this and all other germany expat business show podcasts at thegermanylistde bye.