The Germany Expat Business Show
A podcast that shares knowledge, stories and inspiration for anyone starting, running or growing a business as a non-German in Germany.
The Germany Expat Business Show
Launching an Alpine Yoga Business in Germany with Erin Wilson
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After a decade as a competitive gymnast in South Carolina, Erin found both excitement and uncertainty in shifting her focus. Her college years, filled with new opportunities and inspiring mentors, led her to discover a passion for yoga and fitness—not just as a student, but as a teacher. A six-month study abroad in Italy in 2014 also cemented her love for Europe.
In 2015, Erin moved to Germany after graduating from Clemson University with a degree in veterinary science (which was no longer her passion), driven by a desire to live abroad. After seven years of juggling part-time jobs with the US Army and teaching yoga locally, she took the leap into self-employment.
In April 2024, Erin founded The Third Place in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, aiming to grow her yoga and fitness business by hosting European retreats, collaborating with local businesses, and offering more private and group classes. Her goal is to create a space where students can explore their potential, honor their bodies’ boundaries, and feel guided on their journey to reach their goals.
Erin’s teaching emphasizes movement, anatomy, breathwork, and introspection as essential elements of total wellness, and she’s eager to share this with people from all walks of life.
You can find this episode and all episodes as well as show notes for each at https://thegermanylist.de/the-germany-expat-business-show-podcast/
Starting or running a business in Germany as a foreigner? Already running an online business in Germany as an expat? Wanting to grow your German-based business? Working as a freelancer in Germany? You'll love my guide with over 30 resources for expat business owners in Germany.
Hi, I'm Eleanor Meyerhofer, a native Californian designer and digital strategist. In October of 1999, a few years after graduating from design school, I flew from San Francisco to Munich with a fistful of Deutschmarks, a dial-up connection and an extremely vague plan. Twenty-plus years later, after a 10-year stint at a global agency freelancing and launching two online businesses, I'm still here. Now I'm talking to other expat business owners to share knowledge, stories and inspiration for other non-Germans running businesses in Germany. I am here talking to Erin Wilson today of Third Place Yoga, and I'm going to kick off with the question I ask everybody, which is where are you from and what is the two-minute story of how you ended up in Germany?
Speaker 2:First off, thank you for having me, eleanor, two minutes. Okay, let's see how that goes. I studied abroad in Italy in college. I loved Europe. I wanted to come back and I found a program through the US educational program within child care in multiple places and go see the world quote unquote and I ended up falling in love with Garmisch and I just never left. I got a part-time job with the army after a year of my internship and then started my fitness and personal training and yoga endeavors a couple couple years into that and paired that with my part-time work, and so have just slowly been building that up over the last couple years and no, not not a couple a long while since 2000, since 2018.
Speaker 2:So yeah okay, so what is?
Speaker 1:that seven years now seven years go back and ask you a little bit about this job with the army. So did you just go back to the US and like I'm not saying anybody, but like like getting a job with the army, what does that look like? And just saying like, yeah, go wherever you send me, and what kind of qualifications? How did that work?
Speaker 2:So qualifications wise. So this is a program that was actually through a university, I think it was university of Iowa. Um, I didn't go there, that was not my, my university but, um, there's a program that they ran and you could apply. You needed experience in childcare, you had to have some early education and, like, if you didn't have the right, exact education credits, then you could offset that with experience. And so that was how I did it myself, cause I personally I have a degree in animal science. I was planning to be a veterinarian and animal kids, yeah, so that was sort of my intention. It was not a good fit for me in the end, and so I have always done teaching, coaching, tutoring, all of that experience. And so my last year of school I did a couple education credits and then I was able to offset that with experience.
Speaker 2:And so this was a program that placed you on military bases all of the world, because the US has bases in a very high number of countries, and so they work together with the child care programs on the base and they place you in on a semester basis. So you sign up for a semester and you go for that single semester and you're doing some school credits and you're getting actual experience and they offset your lodging costs and your travel costs. So they paid for my flight and we were able to stay on the base in housing that was provided for us and then you, basically you have a small stipend. You pretty much get paid nothing to work full time, but you, you know, you get over here and have a lot of experience and I had no idea that even working on a base was a thing. But there's a ton of civilian employees.
Speaker 2:Here in Garmisch we have international school, like military school, that runs seminars and programs and courses, and so you can come. You know, you can work all over the world, which I found to be, in hindsight, like I was like wish someone had told me that yeah, as a US citizen, you can apply through usagov. I think is a website for jobs in all kinds of fields, you know, in the kitchen, at a restaurant or in childcare, at a bank or at the grocery store. You know, like there's there's endless options, which is something I never knew and is a really wonderful resource. So definitely check that out If you're from the States and looking for a way to utilize very nice like kind of safety net and support of having the a government job and and still get out, get around and, you know, travel around the world okay, I have like even more questions about this.
Speaker 1:um so, okay, since you know this is a show for expats and internationals and immigrants, so did they like, since it's with the military, is like all the visa, all the paperwork, all that like taking care of? Are you like kind of quote unquote working in America? Yes, yes, exactly Okay.
Speaker 2:So basically, when you're on the base it's sort of American soil, so you get paid in dollars. You do not have a resident visa. You don't have to apply for that.
Speaker 2:You don't even register locally, so you don't have to register with the local rat house, you're actually not allowed to because you are under what's called SOFA status and that is the status of armed forces agreements or something. Did I say that right Status of forces agreement? And it's basically an exception to policy and it's something that was established after World War II and there was US troops heavily present in Germany and finding ways for families, people to stay and continue these relationships was kind of the premise there. So I never had a proper visa. Also, that being said, for other immigrants in the country, none of my time that I spent working for the military applies to my years to apply for permanent residency or citizenship, so keep that in mind.
Speaker 2:So I started from zero when I quit, when I left the military last February I've been about a year I started back from zero. So none of that time counts, Okay, so that's question.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have like two more questions. When you left employment with the U S military, is it like either you get a job or you have to go back immediately Like what did that?
Speaker 2:look like Pretty much. Yeah, so when you leave your job, you, in theory, lose your sofa status and you need to get a job that will give you a visa. Your sofa status and you need to get a job that will give you a visa. You need to use your 90 day travel visa and then go back, um or, you know, figure out an alternative. So those were kind of my options. I knew I wanted to be self-employed. I already had a pretty good foundation there and I also was planning to get married to my German husband in this year, so in 2025.
Speaker 2:And so we decided to just push up the paperwork. I could have applied for a self-employment visa just separately that's a possibility but we decided why waste the time? I could get denied. In theory, we're like, whatever, let's just do the paperwork. And so we decided to go that route. Personally and you know, being self-employeded, obviously I don't have an employer to support me. I'm on that journey myself but we went the family route and so I have my visa. My oftentimes title is through him and, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's where we are now wait when you say file the paperwork, like the paperwork to start getting married or so you have to submit.
Speaker 2:So to get my family ausweis, basically like a familienausweis, you have to submit your marriage certificate and some other documents. So I had to have an a1 language certificate, which I had to go do um in hindsight because I had never done it when I was finished with my a1 course, and so I went and did that. And then, you know, just general, other like identification documents, and so we had to present those at our local Landratsamt, yeah, and then they, you know, approve hopefully, which they did okay, but you did get married earlier.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, last February okay, okay, okay, wow, that's super interesting, and so we're recording this on january 29th 2025. So I know, okay, you don't work at the military anymore, but do you still have connections there? It's like this still a legitimate option, like are they going to shut down stuff? Like have you heard any chatter?
Speaker 2:or there's always chatting okay, garmisch, garmisch specifically as a base, it. The purpose is the Marshall Center and that's the school I mentioned, the international school. They have courses, studies etc. There's always chatter about, like you know, will it continue, will it stay up? It's a very small installation. There are much larger installations in northern germany and, like as you pretty much, I mean we're in the south, so as you pretty much go north, there's much bigger places and the primary reason that garmisch is here is because of the marshall center. There's also the edelweiss lodge and resort, which is a military hotel that the idea is. People come down for weekends away, skiing, holiday. They also do couples retreats and family sort of family support events down here. So you know, there's always a talk of like, will it last, will it stay? But I can't imagine that it would just suddenly disappear.
Speaker 2:So, you know, still a viable option for someone who might be looking to come here. There's not that many job availabilities. That being said, it's a small place, so you kind of have to keep your eyes out, but you can always hop between positions. Once you're as a part of, once you're a federal employee, you know it's possible to move and shift between jobs and so if you can make it over here with a job, then you might just start looking around and say, okay, I know I want to go to Spain, or I know I want to go to Germany, or I want to go to Italy, and start looking at availabilities and just use that. And some positions, depending on the grade and like the level of job, will pay for you to move from place to place. It depends on where you come from originally and what position you're taking and like what if it's full-time, what grade it is, et cetera. Not all positions qualify, but some of them do, so worth looking into.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you don't have to be in the military when you're in the US. You can be a civilian, correct, you can be a civilian. Yeah, exactly, okay and sorry, where are you from in the States? Again, I'm from South Carolina, originally South Carolina. Okay, yeah, our neighbors are from South Carolina. A lot of people are like BMW has a factory there.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:A lot of South Carolina Munich exchange. Yes, wow, okay, and I've been here over 20 years and that base has been there forever. When, back in the olden days, when it wasn't so easy, like pre-Amazon, like if you had a friend, I had somebody, a lot of retirees, a lot of people served and then like, liked it here, like you, and stayed and retired in Bavaria or Munich. And they have I don't know if they still have it, but they had some store on the base where you can get American products, peanut butter, and they'd like bring it from the, from the store, the American store.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, back in, like I said, the olden days. Okay, so back to you. So tell me about how you left your military position and started third place yoga, and how and why and what.
Speaker 2:So I always kind of created this foundation in my work. I always worked part time for the military and never worked full time, and so it gave me another part time availability to do what I wanted, which was trainings and education, to teach classes. I started with a lot of fitness classes and yoga. Now I do more heavily yoga, but I still do a lot of private training, which is mostly strength training, cardio training, you know, just generally building fitness and wellness and working with clients one-on-one. So I always did that part-time and really created this sort of opportunistic situation for myself to be able to do that, because I never would have had the foundation to do that if I had worked full-time, or maybe I would have, but I don't want to work 68 hours a week. That's not me, yeah. So I left the position in February of last year and decided that I knew already that I wanted to establish a self-employment business.
Speaker 2:I decided to name it the third place and that reasoning behind that is that in sociology there is this phrase of having your home, you have your work, so a place that you, you know, hopefully, feel comfortable in at home and you don't have to worry about anything else at work.
Speaker 2:The place you kind of have to go.
Speaker 2:And then the third place, which is the concept here, is that it's a place that you can be yourself, you can be accepted, you can have fun, you can socialize maybe, and it's a place that feels inviting.
Speaker 2:And that's sort of my goal with my business is to create that space for people, and right now I don't have a brick and mortar studio. Maybe one day, maybe there's a lot of ideas rolling around there, but having that be a space for people to come, that they know they can come to my classes and they can come to my retreats, and that it's a welcoming place, you can be yourself, you can share, you can hopefully have fun, you can socialize, you can take a moment for yourself. And, yeah, having having that space created, which is where I got the name from, and so that was the premise there and I established that business in April of last year officially. So it was a big transition period between getting marriage ticked off, having process of paperwork and kind of going through all of that paperwork and kind of going through all of that and then being officially you know, officially in the books as of April last year, how?
Speaker 1:so you were kind of doing this, is it right to say? You had it kind of as a side hustle while you were doing a military job. But then how did you do? Did you have the visa at that point and you were able to do it? Okay, so you had it, yes, and then what did it look like? Going like, how did you build up a clientele? Is your clientele? Was it all people from the military base? Was it Germans? Like, how did you build the business up to the point where you could? It took a lot of time.
Speaker 2:I started with a contract, so I still work on base. I still have a contract, so I still work on base. I still have a contract on base. I work with children, I teach gymnastics and I work with adults and I teach yoga classes. So I have two contracts that exist through the base and I work on the base. I make us dollars, I pay us taxes. Okay, I started as a kind of a side hustle, like you've mentioned, so I was able to have at some point I got a mini job in Germany.
Speaker 2:So, you can only make a certain amount of money per month and it's not taxed, and I was legally allowed to do that alongside my government position, which you are allowed to do even if you work full time at least the last I was told, which I will say. It is challenging finding concrete answers. During this whole process I have asked a thousand questions to a thousand people and it has been hard because not everyone knows the answer to that question, because it's not very common that you have people trying to do this.
Speaker 1:Like on both the US and the German side. Exactly, yes, both, everybody's like. Ask the Germans, ask the Americans. Ask the Germans, ask the Americans.
Speaker 2:At one point I switched between this. I switched between this it's called a GS position and a NAF position and they basically are just paid with different money. And when you switch between them it's the same story. You're like, hey, I have a question about the GS side and they're like, no, you got to ask someone else. I'm like, hey, I have a question about the NAF side and people just don't. You know, they don't. They just don't know, they don't know. Yeah, so anyway.
Speaker 2:So I started with a mini job and that was kosher, and so I was able to do both of those. I also had my contracts on base, which was also kosher, and so began there. And then when I left the government official position, I would I still have my contracts on base and I just slowly built up a community. And because the American community that's on base is quite transient, people come and go, you know, every couple of years. There are some that stick around and there are some that live here permanently, but a lot of people come and go, and so it's just kind of staying consistent with being involved in the community, if possible as much as I can be. You know, I do teach with the kids, so I know the kids and I meet the parents and you know you know someone who knows someone and so that helps. We have Facebook groups. That helps the market there, just trying to stay present.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, building that, building that community, took a very, very long time. I have taught many classes to no one Like I've had empty rooms. You know, when I first started, you always ask the community what time would work the best for you, and they'll give you feedback and then you're like, okay, I'm going to do that, and then you do it, and then no one comes and you're like, what you know? So it's just taken a long time. And now my community is probably about half and half with locals versus Americans, whether they are Americans that have passed through Garmisch and now they're gone, but they still come to retreats or they still do classes with me online or they're just active on my social media page in some way, you know. So it's been really nice to have that possibility to continue the connections and as people come and go a lot, you know we have to nurture that and it's just taken a lot of dedication and time.
Speaker 1:So, and good for you. That's hard. But then how did you? How did you like build out? So like, do you do classes in German? Like, how did you expand into the local population? Yeah, so.
Speaker 2:I, when I got my mini job I work at a local hotel here, the Aya hotel I reached out. They had a position called the Wunscherfühle and so someone, the person in the hotel their job is to basically connect with guests and see what people want to do and they help lead tours. And I reached out to this person when the hotel first opened and basically just asked and was like, do you need someone to teach yoga? I knew they had a fitness studio because I could see it from the street and they didn't have anybody because they just were getting started. And I told them I said I'm not ready to teach in German, yet I can teach in English. Because you're a hotel, hopefully you have an assortment of guests. It's not just German people, it's not just German speaking people, but you, you know, garmisch is a huge tourist destination, and so I just inquired with them and they said, yeah, that's fine. And I did tell them that my goal is to teach in, be able to teach, teach bilingual, which I officially did that for the first time, starting last summer. Yay was really cool and I was very proud of myself and I have a lot of wonderful, kind, patient people who, many of which are German and, of course, speak great English, and they are super happy to to support that and to you and to kind of give me feedback.
Speaker 2:And that was the first time was this last summer I taught a free class in the core park here in Garmisch, outside, and it's a free class.
Speaker 2:I was not paid and I feel like it's kind of like I had no skin in the game really. I was like this is a great place to teach a poorly spoken German yoga class, because I knew it wasn't going to be perfect and I kind of would have felt bad if I had taken someone's money and they really had a terrible time. Yeah, so that was a good start and yeah, now I still have that class will continue once it's warm enough, and that's my German speaking, but other than that, I teach all in English. Once it's warm enough, and that's my German speaking, but other than that, I teach all in English. And many of the local people who speak either German or another language, they often tell me that they actually enjoy doing yoga in English more than they do, especially in German, because the German language doesn't really lend itself to the sort of descriptors that you can utilize in yoga classes to have these analogies. And you know, it's, it's just sounds very different.
Speaker 2:And so having that feedback is very encouraging because I know people enjoy class in English and many people here speak better maybe better English than I do, so that's been been great and I'm great. And there's one other teacher here in Garmisch that is from the UK and so she also teaches in English as well. But we're the two of us and so it's a small niche and I have people that sign up for classes, that are visiting Garmisch, you know, and they're excited to find a class in English. So I think that think that's, you know, it's cool that I can serve that niche, and at first I felt I viewed it as a barrier. 100 is never going to work. No one's going to come, and it has proven to be the opposite, so that's been very refreshing cool, and so this core park I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming this is like some big open space in Garmisch A medium-sized open space.
Speaker 2:It's a city, it's a city park and, unlike, like in Munich, the English Garden you can imagine a very small corner of that, okay and it's much more controlled by the city, so it's maintained really well. There's a fence around it, it has opening and closing hours, okay, and this is actually one reason why they only allow free classes and unpaid teachers, because there's a legal obligation there that you can't teach classes and get paid for it. Just in the nature of what the park is for.
Speaker 1:It's a public service, public service space, exactly, yeah. And so now do you see the core park, the hotel? Do you have other locations where you started? Are there other places you've been able to use to offer courses?
Speaker 2:Yes, so this? Since I've officially been established as a self-employed person, now I can legally rent space. So I rent a local Pilates studio and I use the owner's space for class there once a week, and so I pay to rent the space and then I receive the payments from my students directly, as opposed to having the mini job pay me, so the hotel pays me. I also teach at our Volkshochschule. The mini job pay me, so the hotel pays me. I also teach at our Volkshochschule, so I take German classes there as a student and I also teach a yoga class there once a week, and that was actually the very first place I ever taught yoga class off the base. So it wasn't my mini job, it was the Volkshochschule and I started there because they again have a special arrangement with payment and subsidized by the government and they keep the classes super affordable and the payments that you receive up to a certain level are also tax-free, because you don't really make much money at all.
Speaker 2:My German teacher was a teacher his entire life. He taught English as a second language and now he's teaching German to immigrants and he was, you know, informed us many times that you know you don't make much money, but if you love teaching, then you want to continue. It's a really great place to support and to take classes and participate in. They have language classes, art classes, yoga classes you know there's everything, and so for me it was a beautiful platform.
Speaker 2:To start with, I got to know some local people. They advertised locally for you and that really kicked off my connection to the local community and I taught again. I taught in English, so it was a mix of some Americans that had seen the class, some other foreigners, some Germans and you know. So it was just kind of everybody and I didn't mind that I wasn't being paid much because I had just started and I was just happy to have a space to teach in and to have someone say yeah, sure, this is allowed. It's a little bit of a sticky ground to be employed by the government the US government and then also trying to do other things. It's not simple and straightforward. I don't think anything is when you leave the country and you're trying to make a life elsewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's interesting what you say about the Volkshochschule, because I think there's obviously a big one here in Munich and I think it is a great institution. And I have actually considered I think I was I had way too many plates spinning in the air but I thought like, oh, that could be a cool thing to do, you know. But yeah, and I know other people who have taught there and I you really can't there's everything from like belly dancing lessons yes, there's everything, or whatever. When you taught there, like what kind of people were coming into your classes.
Speaker 2:Everyone. I kind of I learned the importance of explaining the title of a class because I really want to in certain cases. Sometimes I call it yoga and I say nothing else, and sometimes that's nice in this case, because with the folk, socially, you sign up for like a whole semester. You have to choose to commit to the class and I have learned the importance of describing the class with the title, with a description. I had people from all I mean I still have people from all ages, all, all genders, all nationalities coming in, and so the class I teach there is called Dynamic Vinyasa for Strength and Mobility, and so it's a little bit more of a powerful physical class.
Speaker 2:I weave in I always try to weave in a little bit of foundational philosophy and then with this specific class we incorporate a little bit of kind of physiotherapy, pilates style movements into the practice so that it's a very intentional physical movement class. Where you're, we are focusing on building the strength you need to do yoga, because for many yoga poses you need a lot of strength, you need a lot of flexibility, but many people don't have those things and the practice itself doesn't really lend to building those things. It's kind of like a prerequisite you're sort of expected to come with and it's not a workout. You know, yoga class is not supposed to be a workout, and so it's sort of like a chicken and an egg situation. Yeah, and so with this class I tried to be both the chicken and the egg.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's great, yeah, just, I still can't do it downward facing dog. You do need to be really have a lot of arm strength to do that pose. You do have flexibility, which, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Most people don't have enough and most yoga poses push people's bodies beyond the functional range of motion. And that's one of my personal interest points is how modern science and anatomy plays into the yoga practice and making it more accessible. Because we have so much knowledge now of how the body works, we know that bodies are different. We know not just bodies look different, but structurally bodies are different, bones are different, past injuries make a difference. And so, looking at it from a more holistic approach of saying, okay, how can I make this practice work for five different people that walk into the room and one's got a wrist injury and one can't go on their knees and one person is limited in their hips and you have everything show up in the room. So it's like how can we make it work better and how can we support the practice through other modalities? So not just yoga, but also within the yoga practice how can we make it more accessible?
Speaker 1:Oh, great yeah, Remedial yoga, that would be the class.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that's where most people probably should start. It's like a foundational class. You need that. You need that information, yeah.
Speaker 1:Except I've been like remedial yoga for 30 years, but that's okay. Okay, so let's talk. Let's talk about marketing. So I'll tell you what my assumption would be and you can tell me if it's right or wrong. So I would assume that over time the people that are locals would get to know you and maybe they know where you teach or you have some kind of newsletter, or people get on a list Like how did you build this base clientele when you do not have your own physical space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Email newsletter. So I don't even use a newsletter provider at the moment. I just email people.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I email and I try to do a weekly schedule reminder. I notify people if I'm gone, for example, and I just do a one weekly say this is what's going on. Even if it's like the same thing every week, it's just a good reminder. Here's how to sign up. Come see me. And then social media I have used I've only just recently, in the last year since I really started my self-employment business is to be trying to be more consistent on Instagram and those posts just cross post over to Facebook and so I've been sort of hit and miss with that in the last years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really pretty much it. And so since I got my position at the Aya Hotel, which I guess now is probably about four years ago, I'm on their website and I ask people often because I'm curious is like, how did you figure out about this class? You know they come to me, they're not a guest of the hotel and they don't live in Garmisch. It's like, well, how did you find this? And so they're just like I just Google yoga Garmish and because I'm a part of their website and that website existed before my own website existed, that led them to the yoga class at the Aya Hotel and so that just slowly kind of brought some more folks in and then they got to know me and then I try to do my best at the end of class to connect with them and say if you're interested in other classes that I have or whatever, pop me your email, send me a hello and I can add you to my list.
Speaker 2:And with marketing I have found that's one of the hardest things for me. I don't like doing it, really, it's not my forte, I'm not consistent enough. But on the other side of that I see the results of when I am consistent and it's a huge difference. It's like I just, you know, and I know now, being truly self-employed, like I have to be consistent.
Speaker 1:I have to do it you have to ask. Okay, let's talk about the mechanics of this a little bit more. So you're on the hotel website. Is there a backlink to your website on there?
Speaker 2:There's not actually, it just has my name. If somebody wanted to, they could also then just search me because it has my name. Okay, and now that I have my own website, that does pop up more easily when someone's searching, especially if they searched Aaron Wilson Yoga, they'd probably come across me. I haven't done it myself in a while, so you can let me, you can let me know.
Speaker 1:Also Garmish. So maybe your, your site has done well, especially locationally, with like has piggybacked on the, has piggybacked on top of that the hotel website. And then, when you ask so, and then at the Volkshohochschule, at the hotel, at the pilates studio, are they cool with you mentioning to people you can get a hold of me this way? Or and and then, how do you physically get the emails?
Speaker 2:I use. Well, I need to make new business cards and since I have my own domain now I need to update that because I haven't done that. I usually give them my email and I ask them to reach out to me.
Speaker 2:And I found out the hard way of getting pushed onto people's spam folders that if I blast too many random new emails, it doesn't Google doesn't like that, and so I have switched to I will provide my email, I'll just write it on a little piece of paper and I'll just pass it out, or give them a business card, if I have one, and ask them to send me a hello, and that tends to work out better in terms of email successfully arriving to inbox. Yeah and yeah. No, the other businesses have never been upset. I mean, they know that I'm self-employed, they know that I teach in other places. They have no issue with that, and so that's always been supported. The core park, specifically because I'm not getting paid and people aren't paying, they use that as a as an opportunity. They say, hey, use this as an opportunity to communicate with people. Like you bring a flyer, you know, connect with people, and like you're not getting paid here, you know, do something like that. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that's really actually quite clever to give your email and then just nitty gritty, question, obviously when you email, so you just, I assume, have some kind of list in your Gmail or whatever like, of all the people and then you do a BCC when you know I was thinking about doing a lead magnet on this. It's just like. You don't even need to like get ConvertKit or MailChimp or whatever Like. You can start a list with your regular email, as long as you don't share other people's email and you get permission to market to people Exactly.
Speaker 2:And because I don't have an unsubscribe button. I tried to send out, a couple times a year, an email that says if you don't want to be a part of this anymore, please let me know, because you can't unsubscribe without telling me in person and I don't want to make anyone feel bad. You feel a little guilty hitting that unsubscribe button. But when I switched to so, I actually created a separate named business. During COVID, I taught a lot online, as many people did, and during that time I created what was called the movement community and I created a website through Google and, you know, use that to the best of my ability to keep classes happening in the online space. And then I created an Instagram based off of that. Like I said, I have a website and during that time I tried to use Flowdesk and I did. I mean, I switched over and I utilized it, and the very first time I ever tried to send out a message, it went directly to everyone's spam folder. Oh, and that was a huge hole to dig myself out of. Oh no.
Speaker 2:Because it was like the kind of situation where I had to talk to individual people to say please mark me as not spam, blah, blah, blah. It was a whole thing and I finally just bailed. I was like you know what, this isn't worth it and I went back to just doing regular emails. I had to dig myself out of people's spam folders and since then I haven't really bothered to try to go back to a marketing email service. Maybe in the future I will.
Speaker 2:And I have been informed and I have done some research that when you do make that switch, you need to start small and start like start by emailing five people, you know personally, contact them separately, say hey, I'm going to email you, please mark me as not spam, put me like save my contacts, you know, like whatever. Star this message and then do five people, and then do 10 people, and then do 20 people and at some point maybe I'll switch back. But that's what dug me in the hole the first time. So I'm just happy BCCing and using my plain old email. Yeah, I'm content there for now.
Speaker 1:Good for you. Okay, let's talk. You had mentioned teaching to empty rooms and all of this. I want to talk about your retreats. I was poking around on your website Looks like you do some in some really nice places and, as someone who has, like always thought especially we're on, you know, in front of screens so much I've I've attempted a couple of times to try and do like in-person workshops and I found it's like and now I have my own space, so it's not a big deal. But if you have to commission a space, it's like this chicken egg you got to get the space book, it pay for it and then you got to fill it. So how, what has your experience been running retreats, and has that been easy or hard?
Speaker 2:As I have found as a trend in my life is I sort of dip my toes in as lightly as possible and slowly build over the year. I'm not much for jumping off of cliffs and so you know, sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it happens when you don't ask for it. But with retreats I started super small. I knew I wanted to do this is before I was even an established business. I was just pretty much being paid under the table very small amounts of money. I wasn't too concerned about it. It was all direct local people I know personally and I started by doing it at an event where I did not have to pay in advance for the space. So I just avoided that altogether and I said I did it at a mountain hut in Austria and with the hut reservations you don't have to pay in advance for the space. So I just avoided that altogether and I said I'm, I did it at a mountain hut in Austria and with the hut reservations, you don't have to pay in advance, you pay. There's there is a cancellation policy, but it was super duper flexible. I was able to cancel, I think, up to like two weeks before the date and if I canceled there was no harm and no fee. And so that was really why, how I said, okay, I want to see if I can make this happen, how can I do this with as little, you know, backlash as possible, and that's what I did is I found a location that hadn't I had no skin in the game and I said, okay, I'm going to book this and let's see what happens. And so then I did that for the first time, I think in 2000,. I want to say 2018 or 19. And and it was fair, you know, it was mostly successful.
Speaker 2:I had a small, two small groups. That first summer I did two separate retreats at two different huts, and I had to find a space that had a yoga room or a seminar room, a space that would allow us to do class inside. And yeah, that's how I began. And so then this year I'm teaching four. I have four retreats.
Speaker 2:The next one is in the beginning of March, so the start of the 13th in Loitas, austria, which is just, you know, 45 minutes from Garmisch, and this space and the space for my fall retreat, which is in Portugal. They were both recommended to me by a person I know and they said, hey, I know about this space and the places. They both have space for yoga. They both want to host retreats like this. That's one of their goals as their business, and so they're more incentivized to make it work.
Speaker 2:So what I'm doing with the place in Loitas and the place in Portugal is that up to a certain date they will hold the spaces and I don't have to pay a deposit or a down payment until I have a certain number of registrations. And then by that time we both know that like okay, it's happening or it hopefully is going to happen. And then they still have a time window as a lodging. You know, because it's one of them is like an apartment, like kind of like a farian house sort of, and then the other one is a big, old, sort of like an old villa, and then they still have a time window that if I have to bail, that they have time to then fill up the spaces, and so they know on their end what that looks like, how much time they need to fill that space, and I know on my end, kind of, yeah, like it's looking like it's not going to happen or it's looking like it is, it is Okay, and so I've been really lucky in that regard, I have not yet committed to a place that I have to do like a big down payment on as of 2025, my first venture into that is happening in 2026.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be going to Tuscany, to a beautiful villa down there that also recommended to me by another studio in Munich. I enjoyed a really great training with the studio and they do an event down there, and so we chatted about it and that's my first big ticket. Item is that I have to put a down payment on this house and with them. Specifically, their flexible sort of gift is that if you have to bail and you have to cancel, they will let you move your deposit for a small fee to another date, and so you can say let me try again, and so it's just kind of like picking and choosing that level of commitment that you want to do.
Speaker 2:It's like in the beginning I had zero, zero chance to even pay for anything. I was like, okay, well, what can I do around here where I can get away with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how did you? Okay With the first one, you said you kind of friends and family. But then what's been your strategy as you've expanded these offerings? Do you mean as in terms of people coming to them? Yeah, Like getting people to sign up and sign the bottom line and book for the retreat? Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:I just started with my local community and then I've posted on Facebook platforms. I've done some like basic advertising through Google, like paid advertising through Google and through my own community here. And I actually haven't officially posted the retreats on like a booking platform, first because I wasn't officially a business and I didn't feel comfortable advertising for something that wasn't legit above board. I was like, well, you know I'm starting off really small and niche. I know all these people personally don't want to advertise, but even now that I am, I actually haven't listed it yet on like a retreat booking page because I've I want the spaces to go to people in my community if possible and if I have enough interest, then I don't have to re, I don't have to expand far beyond that because it's limited space. You know I can only have up to about 12 students and I don't really want more than that because then I lose that intimacy, right. So you know, it's just been hope for the best and be consistent.
Speaker 1:Tell me, tell me a little bit. Okay, Two things and then we can wrap up slowly out of all of those. So the the ads newsletter posting on social media has there been any method that's been like a standout in terms of success? Yeah, surprisingly.
Speaker 2:Facebook pages, really, yeah, I mean I would say at least half the spaces come from my personal community, my email list and my community itself. The other half come from people who know people, so word of mouth sharing and or Facebook pages.
Speaker 1:But it's your own personal Facebook page or your third place yoga page.
Speaker 2:I posted on my personal one as well, but also posting about the event in expat pages, in community pages, in Munich pages, Stuttgart pages, Parmig pages, Like Facebook groups Facebook, yes, Sorry. Groups, Okay Okay. And this is difficult because a lot of them have like a no promotion. That was my next question, and so what I've done is just, I mean, I've had success doing it and I've had, you know, people who end up seeing it, sign up, have a great time and come and enjoy themselves.
Speaker 2:It's like I feel I understand why there is a no promotions rule and also it's such a great place to reach people. So I kind of have like I don't know, like a personal sort of like come on, like really I can't share this here and so, to be honest, I just post it and like if the admins take it down, it's like okay. So it's a little bit of a sticky ground. Sometimes I post on like yard sale pages or Klein on Psychic pages and say, okay, I'm selling this event and I'm just trying to get away with it and hope for the best and like I've had some some good reach with those things. I've had a few like random people who I haven't known at all, they haven't met me, they haven't taken my classes and they sign up for an event, and so I find that to be awesome and so that's been a good resource and at some point I will be on a booking. Like book yoga retreats is a huge website where you can book yoga retreats Bookyogaretreatscom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's also one called bookretreatscom, so at some point I'll be using those platforms too to expand my reach.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they take a chunk of your, but yeah, they take a big chunk and you know I love being able to offer my stuff to the people in my direct vicinity. I think it's a nice connection and you have the possibility to come again, like I've had a woman in Munich who saw my post on Facebook, came to my retreat two years ago and then came again last year, you know. So she's like. You know we're still connected. She's still in my email group and she I don't see her in between, but she's close enough that we can you know we can stay involved, which I love.
Speaker 2:that Like, I think that's great.
Speaker 1:And the Facebook groups, did you so? Did you kind of focus on a radius like Munich, bavaria, like the Southern Germany, or did you like go to group?
Speaker 2:No, I just stayed. I actually I stopped at Stuttgart because I know there's a big American community there, because there's a base there, so I posted in the Stuttgart expats and that's as far as I went. I also went down to Innsbruck and I posted in an Innsbruck. So you know, I'm trying to keep it fairly, fairly close, mostly because those retreats were happening here, like in Austria, so I don't you, because those retreats were happening here, like in Austria, so I don't you know, I've had people fly from the States. I've had former students who live in the US fly here to do a European trip and also come to a retreat.
Speaker 1:So also, like you said, people should go to thirdplaceyogacom. It's the thirdplaceyogacom, okay, and you'll see all these pictures of, like the beautiful Alps and yoga poses. So like, imagine sound of music and like, yeah, so it's just why people would come to do it.
Speaker 2:It's just next level. It's just an unbelievable place to be practicing and to. You know, I have people ask I don't know much about yoga, Can I still come? It's like, yes, of course you can. The retreat is a wonderful place to practice different styles. We do all different types of yoga so you can see oh I actually like this style or I'm not really keen on that style and to learn and to to ask questions. You know you have it's holding that space for you to come explore and to to try, and what better place to do it than an immersive, comforting, kind place with all these people who are in the same boat as you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then go have a big schnitzel afterward.
Speaker 2:The food is a huge part of it. Yes, we're big eaters. I strictly don't have a specific role. It's never strictly vegetarian or vegan. I always have all the options. I never say you can't have a glass of wine. Personally, this is just the way I do my retreats. If it's not for you, that's fine. If it's for you, I want to give you the freedom to enjoy yourself the way you want to enjoy yourself, and I think that's really important. And I have all people show up. I have people with dietary restrictions, I have vegans, I have vegetarians, I have meat eaters and I've got people who want a glass of wine and people who want a hot lemon at the end. So everyone's on the same page of just kind of being accepting, and I think that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great, All right. Well, on that note, I'll ask you. The final question I like to ask people is if, do you have any words of wisdom, advice, anything you would have done differently, lessons learned.
Speaker 2:Strictly for business or getting myself over to Europe.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess. So yeah, Uniquely, as like starting a business in Germany as a non-German.
Speaker 2:I guess a couple of points Ask as many questions as you want to ask. It might take asking five different people, even if they're in the same office, and it's just. It just is that way. Like have patience, keep asking because someone will be able to help you at some point, and don't take no for an answer. Don't take no for an answer. Use Facebook groups. They're awesome. There are so many people like in self-employment pages or you know, expats in this city, immigrants in that city, like ask. I mean really that comes down to it Ask questions, ask people for help, don't be afraid.
Speaker 2:And here in Germany I've had to really get over myself about being, you know, like, oh, I can't speak that good of German, like my Germans subpar. It's like, just try. And most people will speak English and just call, because I used to be afraid to call the restaurant. And it's just, you got to swallow that pride. And I'm a very competitive person with myself and I've had a really hard time getting over that language barrier in my work and in my social life and in my family and it's like nope, you just got to try, you just got to do it. There's no way but to practice, and that is with most things that is. The only way to improve is to keep practicing and to just do it.
Speaker 1:And keep that deep L window open. Exactly.
Speaker 2:That's kind of a game changer. It's all the deep L extension to your browser.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Well, erin, it's been really great chatting with you. Once again, you want to tell people what you got coming up and where they can find you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So yes, you can find me at thethirdplaceyogacom my Instagram handle is thethirdplace underscore yoga fitness. I'm teaching group classes in Garmisch, day retreats and weekend retreats in Europe. So this year, three in Austria and one in Portugal. I've got a retreat in March coming up very soon, which I'm super excited about, two in the summer scheduled and in October I'll be in Redondo, portugal. So very excited about those things and you're welcome to come find me online. I have a very small online community but if you want to come try, I always have a free class for your first time. So feel free to reach out and you can shoot me an email at erin at the third place yogacom and come give it a try.
Speaker 1:All right, thanks so much.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Thank you, Eleanor, for having me today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. You can find this and all other Germany Expat Business Show podcasts at thegermanylistde Bye.