The one with two white men at a microphone

This week, Gavin is left alone with the kids, and David is left alone with the kids, Gavin forces his daughter to make cornbread, we read a listener messsage, we revisit Gavin's favorite bit "What Would You Do?," we have some *slightly* good gay news, we talk about the sandwich guy, and we rank the top 3 aquired tastes.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

You know what else?

David: 0:03

Oh no. I'm trying. Oh no. You're usually the one who does this, honestly. I had one ready, but you you jump to the head of a line and let me look what look what happens. And this is gate three arc. So, David, my husband left town for the past four days and he grabbed one of our kids, but he took the good one. And so I was left alone with my daughter for four days.

Gavin: 0:42

Now my god, Hannah Hannah in 2029, listening back to vintage radio shows, a podcast, kid jokes. I'm so sorry about this, but we love you. We love you. You're actually the favorite, Hannah.

David: 0:56

Yeah, and honestly, this story is net positive. But I was just, I wasn't dreading it, but I was just like, we I never get one-on-one time with her, right? It's it's like maybe I put her to bed or we go for like one errand, but like days on end, weekends where it's just us. And I am sad to report on particularly because we're on this podcast, it went great. Oh it was so fun. Oh, god, I know it's really good. But I think I know why. I think the easiest parenting is not having one kid, it's having one kid and then having two kids and then getting to have kids again. I completely what two kids looks like. When you and I were parents for the first time with one kid, we were like, this is the hardest thing I've ever done, right? Oh, yeah, totally. You couldn't have convinced us that no, actually, you have plenty of time and this is this is actually easier until I've had two and now I've gotten back to one. So I realized I was like, oh, if she's sleeping or otherwise occupied, there's nothing else that I need to be worrying about. So it was super fun, actually, except for we went to a play place. Oh no. And this was the this was the last day we were together. And I think this is the reason why. We had had this really great one-on-one time for four days, and we went to this big play place where she can run around and do slides and games and she can do anything she wants. She demanded I spend every second with her, playing with her, and playing with her in that like I want to see your eyes looking at me, looking at the thing. I don't want you to play with me and be looking away. I want you to play with me and actively be connected. And if I if I think for a second, you are not interested in what I'm doing. Yeah, I'm gonna say daddy, daddy. And so that was really hard. That was one of those moments.

Gavin: 2:49

What was the play you had to engage in? Was it make believe that you have an ice cream stand or you're the dog being walked by its owner, or what? It was babies.

David: 3:00

There is a in this particular place, there's like a separate area for just like baby dolls, baby carriages. Like it's it's for kids who like to play with babies. And I had to be there and I had to wrap the baby, but I had to be looking at the baby and then looking at her at the right time. Like, she she was not allowed. You know, sometimes you can like half-ass raise your kids. It's what you do most of the time. Most of the time.

Gavin: 3:18

Well, please, uh all of us, and everybody listening to this, except for listener who hasn't had his baby yet, obviously.

David: 3:23

But yes. Um, but so anyway, the net positive was the weekend was actually really great. And I think having these, like when you have two kids, getting to have one-on-one time with one, each of the kids, even if it's just like for going out for ice cream, I think is it's a really interesting experiment. And what I relearned, and you and and we all know this, is that one of the best feelings in the world, I used to think, was when you'd put your kid in the car and you'd strap them in and you'd close the door and you'd have that walk around the car on fucking vacation. Yeah, you couldn't hear them, you weren't touching them, they weren't moving. Like it would, I remember that, but I've realized my new favorite feeling is when you drop them off at daycare, and then you come back to the parking lot and you get in your car and you sit down and you look at your phone. You're like, I'm free. I'm not going to get away. And I know where I noticed that today in the daycare parking lot where these parents just sitting in their cars by themselves looking at their phone because they were like, Oh my god, I'm free. So, anyway, that was my weekend.

Gavin: 4:24

I do think there is a debate to be had about whether or not you should be on your hands and knees playing baby with your daughter. Now, from time to time, yes. And how much, you know, do you do it on a daily basis, would you say?

David: 4:38

I would say my kids are more neat, require us more than maybe most kids. So, yes, they're they're not very good about just playing by themselves and being happier, the six-year-old is, but like, yeah, I would say most of the time, I'm, yeah, I'm the problem, is what you're saying. I guess it's a good idea.

Gavin: 4:53

Yes, of course. It is your fault. Yes, of course. Well, reminding you that my favorite parenting book, Bringing Up Bebe, which I should actually reach out to Pamela Druckerman, do you think a New York Times best-selling author would respond to us? Do you think?

David: 5:06

God, I hope not.

Gavin: 5:07

I love this book so much. And she talks about how um the French are very the the the attributes of French parenting, which is basically like how to shove a child in a closet, insist that it remain silent and eat everything and never throw a temper tantrum for its entire life until it becomes 22 years old, and then they actually acknowledge its existence and give it autonomy. But she they're very quick to say, you should not be on your hands and knees playing baby. But once in a while you should, and those are good memories made. So I don't know. It's I think you're a bit of a francophile. Of course I am.

David: 5:44

I really think you are.

Gavin: 5:46

And actually, it's Francophile. Thank you very much. But wow, that's a bit of Francophile would say. I want to be an Italianophile because the Italians is just so chill, and they just like drink wine and have sex and don't care about things, right? Giant dicks. So speaking of not that at all, um, actually terrible segue, but I need to talk about it.

David: 6:10

See it on the outline, and I'm like, this is good God's deep, bro.

Gavin: 6:14

I just need to talk about myself for a minute, okay? Because I have tremendous needs for the next three weeks. I have done a really good job of, I don't think you even knew that this was happening. That uh my partner is away um being artistic and being musical for an entire month. And I haven't done a month alone in a very long time. And I certainly haven't done a month alone when my children just need to be driven everywhere all the time, uh, which is basically what parenting is, as we know. But now it's just like, I don't know, everything is just a lot of Ubering, you know? I'm just an Uber. So anyway, he's away for a month, um, but he's being musical and and lots and lots of people have been like, oh man, how are you doing it? How you doing it? And as we've discussed many times, nobody would want to do this solo. Kudos to every single uh solo parent out there who is absolutely a superhero. But I'm like already in my groove, you know, three days in. I'm like, there have been fewer fights, the house is cleaner, no offense, Todd. And um, and it's because everybody's just marching to my rhythm. And I mean, the whole world would be better off if it just marched to my rhythm, right? It is amazing.

David: 7:16

Like, but but but but so put parenting one-on-one, it's I I even I said this to my husband. He doesn't take offense to it, but I'm like, it is easier without you here because what I say goes, and it's the same, I'm sure it's the same thing with you.

Gavin: 7:26

Yeah, or also somebody else actually said to me last night, um, it's also that underlying resentment that you feel towards your partner when things don't go the way you want them to. So if you're if you don't actually have underlying resentment in the parenting unit, that helps a lot too, which is out terrible, but it's life. It's life, it's life, right? It's life. So anyway, um, but he did send me a video uh from um Switzerland, and it was a video recently about a guy who had some serious, like I wouldn't exactly say MAGA vibes, but it was like bro vibes of like, this is what you gotta do to tell your kids. But it was interesting because it said, you have got to direct your kids in their interests because they can't figure it out for themselves anymore, and you have to direct them a little bit. And we are um, I'm in once again, we are once again in high negotiation factor with uh my daughter in particular, who would rather just sit home, period, and that we are coming to winter activities time, which means sports and spring musicals and things like that. And I am in some high-level negotiations once again, because um because I think that there should be more going on. And so I take great refuge. The whole point of this is that some bro on Instagram told me that I should pick my kids' activities. It's weird that sh that they don't want to comply with that. But um, I don't know. How much choosing do you think you should have to do?

David: 8:53

Well, this is it's funny you bring this up. Um I went to pick up my kids at school and or my kid at school, and he's in elementary school that goes to fifth grade. And clearly in the older grades, fourth or fifth grade, they have some sort of band program or something. Because I saw a kid walking out with what looked to be a Pluto or a clarinet. And I thought, and I said out loud to my husband, I was like, Oh, remind me, I the second they're allowed to do band or anything, I definitely want to sign them up or whatever. And he turned towards me and goes, So you want to do what Gavin does as for he literally said that, and I was like, Oh yeah, because he's our listener. And he and I was like, Oh, oh yeah, that's right. I'm following Gaben's footsteps.

Gavin: 9:34

So listen, everybody's education is better when it's well rounded and when they listen to you word for word and don't question your authority. If they would just march to the tune of my band.

David: 9:49

You're slightly off-tune, tune. Yes, I know, I get it.

Gavin: 9:53

Oh shit. Well, anyway, I'm an asshole. Um, obviously. But let me tell you how my kid was awesome uh last night, and also how I won the battle. Um, so last night for dinner, I tried a new recipe, a turkey chili. And I generally think, I don't know, do you like ground chili? I think, or excuse me, ground turkey. Uh it depends. Yeah. Yeah.

David: 10:14

It's it's a it's like sometimes, like sometimes I'll do like tacos and half turkey meat, half ground beef, and it's just it's just enough to like lighten everything, but like all turkey ground is like it's a little fluffy for me.

Gavin: 10:24

You you eat it and you go, hmm, this tastes display. Healthy. Yeah. Totally. Which is the same thing. Anyway, I it was a pretty good recipe. Um, we maybe we'll start a new segment on here of recipe exchanges with listener, because it would be great to hear what listener has to say, especially um cooking hacks, right? So anyway, my daughter comes in and she says, Well, I'm not eating that. I'll make my own dinner. And I'm like, uh well, you're not just gonna make ramen. Um, I don't like chili. Well, you're making cornbread, aren't you? And I'm with such fabulous 14-year-old entitlement. I said, I don't have time to make cornbread because I'm still working, actually. I'm throwing together chili at 3:30 in the afternoon so that it will be ready by 4:45 when we have to eat, because then I have to take your brother to soccer. But you can make cornbread. I mean, you're perfectly capable of making it. I don't want to. Okay, well, fine, I'm not going to. I actually shut up. Not possible. And she relented. And she said, Okay, fine, I'll make it. So she starts to make the cornbread. She we find we discover that we don't have any baking powder in the house. I need to, I'm literally adding it to my list right now to remind myself to put it on the list. This is the kind of engaging content our listener demands.

David: 11:39

And you add to your grocery list.

Gavin: 11:41

And so we we discovered we didn't have baking powder, it was part of the ingredients, and she was freaking out at me. You always say baking is science, and you can't skip any ingredients or eyeball anything. And I'm like, it's a fucking cornbread. It doesn't fucking matter. We're not giving this to anybody else. I don't even know what baking powder is gonna do because I'm not a baker, really. But anyway, my point is a leavener.

David: 12:08

It makes it fluffy. That's what it does.

Gavin: 12:10

A leaven. This was a very okay, ultimately. It was hilarious to me that she really does listen to me, but man, does she love to take rules literally? And if she has a chance to undermine me or um prove me wrong, boy, will she take it. But she made it without the um baking powder, and it was it tasted healthy.

David: 12:33

I mean, it's all basically the same thing. I was just as you were saying that, the way like the your reenactment of her, I was just thinking, it's like my daughter is talking about a cat or like a kitten, and I'll be like, oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, that cat. She's like, actually, it's a kitten. Oh, yeah. It's like actually, you're not eating tonight. You lose, you lose everything tonight. Um, so yeah, it's just it just an older exactly. I have never connected anything more than the fucking beast in that moment. Um, speaking of connecting with people, listener, I we are getting so many great, so much great feedback from you guys. I think we should do like a weekly listener mailbag. Oh, that's a good idea. Um, but that would require us being prepared and going through the DMs at the right time.

Gavin: 13:13

But anyway, and also having and listener having that much to say to us on a weekly basis.

David: 13:17

Correct. Um, but we got a really sweet message that I always like to pass by this, uh pass along the sweet ones because it's just nice to kind of know that there are other people out there. We're just not talking into the void like we assume we are all the time. Um, we got a very sweet message from um, I'll just say his first name, Tom. He said, Hey guys, suburbs of North uh Charlotte, North Carolina, husband and I together for almost 21 years. They have one son who will be three and a half, or sorry, three in two days, and one daughter who will be one year old soon. Same maternal DNA, gestational character, small business owner, proud daddo, which I love. He said, My son originated the word to be different than his dad-da. That's very cute. Been listening long enough to recommend to my husband and that son of a bitch, he actually fucking did. Ironic, we both each individually listen on our way to the therapist on Wednesday mornings while my mother-in-law gets the kids up as your new episodes drop. Love feeling like we can relate to others as it can sometimes be isolating. Thanks for giving us a voice. Such a sweet message. Very, and I love that he curses in it. So and also he he listens to us on the way to his therapist. So I'm like, yeah, does he need therapy because of what we say? Or are we like like I'm just to work that out? But Tom, thank you for reaching out. We love you. Love all of our listener, and um, you have kids about the same distance away as Gavin and I. So yeah, um, good luck.

Gavin: 14:39

Don't worry, it's yeah, it it just gets worse.

David: 14:41

It just gets worse, Tom. Thank you though. But you know what gets better is I have a moment of awe for you. Oh sorry, I just yeah, I have a sound effect for that, but thank you. Um, I uh I realized something today. My my daughter's three and a half, she's like three and three quarters, she'll be four in January, and it's something that was just so beautiful, and I didn't realize I realize until I realized it, which was I can now pick out my daughter's artwork. Like if you put a like 20 pieces of art on the ground, and listen, it's still really bad, right? It's just a fucking chicken scratch. But she's I've watched her color enough now to where I'm like, that is Hannah's. I can pick it out immediately just because of the way she does it. And there's just something really fucking cool about that, where you're like your kids start to have their own personal style and their own unique thing, even though it's kind of chicken scratchy and not in the lines, it's still beautiful. So my moment of awe is recognizing your own kids' artwork.

Gavin: 15:43

Uh well, um, kind of along those lines of awe, um, we do have a Delph of the Week. And this one I am particularly proud of. So remember the sandwich guy in Washington, D.C. During the protests against the ICE invasion of Washington, D.C., there was the dude who threw the foot-long subway sandwich against a police officer and was summarily arrested. I, as I recall, thrown down to the ground, cuffed, and arrested and arraigned, right? Well, he was found not guilty of well, whatever it was he was not guilty of. But also, not that this matters at all, but the dude is gay. So I just feel like I just feel like Sean Dunn, 37-year-old Air Force veteran. Thank you for your service, Sean. And thank you for your service in standing up for what is right and not ripping people off of the streets to be thrown into um essentially concentration camps. So I love it. Sean Dunn, and he is now iconic thanks to the mashup with the Banksy, you know, artists throwing the sandwich. So sandwich dude.

David: 16:52

Just a turkey and cheese with light mayo right into the sky.

Gavin: 16:55

Light in the loafers, and we love that for you, Sean. So, Sean, guess what, dude? You're a dilf of the week.

David: 17:01

Oh, that is that's fucking great. Um, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I need your advice, Gavin. Oh, I have a I have a I have a what would you do?

SPEAKER_00: 17:12

What would you do?

Gavin: 17:16

It's been so long. Yeah, don't do it though, okay. Okay.

David: 17:20

Fine, fine, fine, fine.

Gavin: 17:22

I won't, I won't give listener what he wants.

David: 17:24

So I've told you, how do you know listener is a he? Could be a she. It sure could be, or they. So, yeah, or they so my son, I think I've said this before, he lies a lot. He's he's a liar. Um, but now he's getting older. And the other, he basically we we we make his lunch four days a week, and we let him choose one day a week we can order at the school, which of course he just gets pizza and chips and he gets the chocolate. Like he just fucking goes crazy. But we only let him do it once a week. But we just have a card full with money, and he's been coming home with like half-eaten or almost full food uh like like sandwich bags, and I'm like, I wasn't hungry. All right, and so I was like, I think he's secretly ordering, so we can see online when he orders. And so the other day I said, Why is this food coming home? He said, Well, I wasn't hungry. I said, Did you order today? And he goes, No. Now it gave him. Here's where the what would you comes in. I know he's lying. What would you do?

SPEAKER_00: 18:26

What would you do?

Gavin: 18:30

How much do you talk about the importance of not lying and telling the truth a lot? Okay, you're fucked. I mean, whenever whenever I'm able to say to my kids, actually, we haven't talked about it this in a while, but when I used to be able to say to them, what's the most important thing? And they would just repair it to me to tell the truth. And um, this might be a chance for you just speaking instinctually, because obviously I haven't thought about this. Maybe it's a chance for you to say, hey, bud, I I guess what I can actually see what you're doing. And because I can see what you're doing, I can see that you're not telling the truth. But do you want to tell me the truth now? Tell me what you think and get him to kind of fess up to it and see, you know, catch him in the act in a very calm, kind way, and make it a lesson about like, I don't really care if you eat. I mean, do you care that he orders a bunch of food and doesn't eat the food that you're I mean, listen, this is this is the thing that's always the decision.

David: 19:27

Like, in theory, not as much. I do want him to eat healthy, and I always would like try to make sure that I curate the food that it's like slightly healthy, but moreover, it's the lesson of like you like you gotta be truthful and you gotta ask permission for things and stuff like that. So it's not as much about like the health of it, right? Even though I know he's getting chocolate milk and cookies and whatever he can order, but it's more about like you should be telling me the truth, which is why I try to not re overreact all the time. Yeah, and I always tell my kids the most important thing in the world is an itty bitty waste and a round thing in your face. And I think that's really that's really sunk in. But the Lying thing, not so much.

Gavin: 20:01

So yeah. Well, if you do you being able to shame him into having an eating disorder, so he has that, so he has that itty-bitty waste and everything in your face. That would be a good way to be like, listen. Uh, but I do want to hear, please take care of this in the next week and come back and report to us. Would you please take care of this?

David: 20:20

Please fix your child and then report back to us. Okay. I will do. Not a liar. I can fix our listener by giving them a dad hack of the week, though.

Gavin: 20:28

Okay.

David: 20:29

Because I re- This is one of those things, again, it's a lesson you have to learn over and over and over again. And somehow we just don't remember. And I remember this was one of our dad hacks many years ago, but we probably have new listeners since we've said this, so I want to remind them. Wishful thinking. Yeah. The dad hack is don't trade fun for fun. Okay. What I mean by that is if your kid is having fun, doing whatever the activity is, don't try to trade it for something else that's fun. So, like if you were gonna walk out the door to go to the park because they love the park, and on the way out, they they they saw a ball they wanted to play with, and they were just playing and laughing in the living room. Don't go, guys, guys, we gotta go. We gotta go to the park. It's time to go to the park. Did you want to go to the park? Don't trade fun for fun. Because what will happen is you will force them to go to the park. They will be mad at you for making them leave the game in the living room. And then when they get to the park, they're not gonna have fun at the park because they're gonna be mad at you. But don't trade fun for fun. If the kids are happy and they're enjoying their life, let them be.

Gavin: 21:29

Okay. I'm okay with that. Moving on to um being, of course, the stand up of America's finest news source. I do want to address some gay news of the week. All right. So, as we know, there is absolutely uh zero good news out there in the world, as we know. But we're trying to do our best to bring it to you. So, far be it from me to consider it good news to dance on the grave of a shithead. But Kim Davis, I hope you are canceled. You fucking bitch. I hope you are canceled for the rest of your life and live in divorced misery forever.

David: 22:12

That's what Dan Mark's.

Gavin: 22:14

That was good news. That was good news of the week. Um, another teensy bit of good news for the week is that apparently in Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, they are opening a they are opening a Philly Pride visitor center debuting in their um LGBTQ plus neighborhood in Midtown Village. And they're just having a center, a visitor center, a tourist center that welcomes folks and wears its rainbow pride um well with pride. And that's um that's good news of the week because obviously it's a dark world. Uh, but thank you, Philadelphia, and fuck you, Kim Davis. Yes, fuck you, Kim Davis.

David: 22:55

When that happened, I was just like, I really wanted to just like spit. This sounds so aggressive and hateful, but I wanted to spit in her face. Like that was like what I would just want to be like, you vile, hateful piece of fucking shit. Because this could have easily, as we know, this could have easily gone the other way. The Supreme Court should have been like, yeah, let's do this. Fuck these guys. The fact that she went all this way to try to hurt people, and you know what it is. Just out of her, she went all this way to take things away. She wasn't going out of her way to try to get something for herself. I want to be married too. I want to go on the the merry-go-round. No, she wanted to take things away from other people.

Gavin: 23:29

Yeah. So because she's so so miserable herself and lonely.

David: 23:33

Yeah.

Gavin: 23:34

You know who else is miserable, lonely?

David: 23:36

Tell me.

unknown: 23:37

Me.

David: 23:39

I'm kidding. It's our top three lists. Gatriarchs, top three list. Three, two, one. All right. So this is another week of mine because we you didn't have a list last week. So this is what are the top three acquired tastes? What are your top three acquired tastes? Um, for me, number three, I think this is an obvious one coffee. I don't think there's any way to enjoy coffee unless you force yourself to drink it for a long time, and then it suddenly becomes good. Um true.

Gavin: 24:12

As seen through the eyes of a child, when they take a sip of our coffee and they go, This is gross.

David: 24:17

So why do we ever do it again? We we do it because this is the whole list, but like we force ourselves to do it for some cultural reason, and then on the uh back end, we're like, oh, I guess I like coffee now. Yeah. Um number two, I I was unfortunately a part of this community for 12 years, smoking. Oh wow. Smoking, if you smell cigarette smoke and you've never smoked a day in your life, it is fucking foul. But you know what is delicious is being a smoker and having a cigarette. Oh, it feels so good. So smoking. And number one, ass.

Gavin: 24:53

No comment? No. I think I think our listener knows. It is unbelievable. Is it identical? How in line this is.

David: 25:01

Is our list exactly the same? That would be amazing.

Gavin: 25:04

Number three, asparagus. Oh. Number two, light beer. Okay. Number one, anal sex. Okay, what's next week? I want to kick it old school and keep it simple. Holidays, oh my god, are around the corner. How is that possible? Yep. What are the three things you're looking forward to this year with the family? So if I haven't made abundantly clear I'm solo right now, right? Sorry, you're rolling your eyes, and so is listener. But just the other day, uh, my partner called while he is working in Switzerland with another conductor who I am certain is not listening to Gatriarchs. But even if he is, maybe he should know. You know, the opera world is very different from the musical theater world, right? And this opera guy is um wonderfully testing the patience of uh my partner. But he was complaining about him and he's like, this is gonna be awful, this is gonna be awful. And I immediately slipped into let's fix it. This is just how it's gonna be, this is how it's gonna be. And he was like, You need to just tell me that it sucks and know that it sucks. And my something great is that my partner had the patience to not scream at me and rip my head off when I needed to just give him support and not fix the situation, which is a lesson I need to learn almost on the daily. So my something great is just thank you, Todd, for reminding me that sometimes things just need to suck.

David: 26:34

Yeah, that's great. That's such a I mean, that is such a like a like an older life lesson. I feel like that's something I've learned too is you can tell when a friend is complaining that they don't want you to say, Well, why don't you just they they literally they know they're the villain, they just need you to, yeah, I totally get that.

Gavin: 26:50

Well, and and as parents, as parents, you need to know that for your kids too. I remember my mom too slipping into that mode in uh constantly, and I wanted to be like, I didn't have the words to say, I just need you to know that it sucks.

David: 27:01

So anyway, listen, it's I'm thankful for our husbands for for sticking with us this long because that that's that's crazy to deal with us.

Gavin: 27:08

That's something great right there. What about that?

David: 27:10

Exactly. My something great is um doctors and particularly our pediatrician, we went to the doctor because my daughter has a dromeral please yeast infection. Yay! So I get to put gross cream on my finger and touch my daughter in ways I never wanted to touch her. But um, you know, when we went to the doctor, she was complaining that, you know, when she peed, it hurt. And so the doctor walked in and we were talking or whatever. And our doctor, and I'm pretty sure this is most pediatricians, basically said before the exam, she goes, Hey, I want you to know that nobody is allowed to try to touch your private area unless it's your parents or a doctor with your parents in the room. And she goes, Okay. And that I've noticed them saying this around two-ish when when we've had exams. And it was just a reminder that's like, man, there is such good in the world, and what a great thing. Because like, I don't know if you ever were raised that way. I wasn't. So it's nice to from the beginning be like, this is yours, these are your privates, nobody's allowed to touch them. And so, my something great is you know, doctors who are willing to say the awkward thing to kind of begin the process of these kids getting ownership of their bodies that they'll eventually hate. And that's our show. If you have any comment suggestions or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

Gavin: 28:24

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM Bond everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge home alone for the next few weeks.

David: 28:36

Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.

Gavin: 28:41

Thanks, and we'll ask your permission next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.