The Two AM Club: "Collecting Stories: A Discussioncast on Embracing Diverse Approaches to Raising Children Around the World.
Welcome to The Two A.M. Club, where we have open and diverse conversations about parenting and partnerships across different cultures. Join us on an amazing journey as we explore the joys and challenges of raising children through the stories of parents from around the world.
Our collection of stories represents a tapestry of cultures and personal experiences. We celebrate our differences and the love we share for our children. While everyone's parenting journey is unique, we find common ground in the experiences that connect us.
Whether you're a new parent, experienced, or simply curious about raising children, The Two A.M. Club has something for you. Expect heartwarming stories, practical advice, and thought-provoking discussions. Our goal is to inspire, support, and connect with parents and partners worldwide.
At The Two A.M. Club, we value open-mindedness, diversity, and honesty. We create a community that embraces the universal journey of parenthood, where love knows no limits. Join us today and be part of a welcoming and supportive community of parents and partners.
We believe that parenthood is a journey filled with joy, challenges, and countless stories that deserve to be shared and in doing so we are collecting stories from parents about their experiences in navigating the intricate paths of parenting and partnership. We understand that parenthood isn't solely about raising children; it's also about nurturing and sustaining strong relationships with our partners.
Our aim is to weave a rich tapestry of stories that celebrate the beautiful, messy, and wonderful world of parenting and partnership. Your stories have the power to inspire and guide others on their path to growth and fulfillment. We are eager to share the triumphs, struggles, and lessons learned along the way. Whether you're seasoned parents or just embarking on this remarkable journey, we invite you to listen to the diverse experiences, insights, and advice that these stories hold.
Join us as we embark on this voyage, hand in hand, as parents and partners. Welcome to our discussioncast, where we embark on an honest and unfiltered journey through parenthood and partnership. As everyday individuals, we deeply empathize with the triumphs and challenges that come with these roles, just like many of you. Each episode of our show explores a wide range of topics and features special guests, offering a glimpse into the diverse experiences and perspectives within our global community. Despite our differences, we all share a common objective: navigating these challenges and joys in our own unique way.
The Two AM Club: "Collecting Stories: A Discussioncast on Embracing Diverse Approaches to Raising Children Around the World.
"Fierce Love and 'Useless Competition': Unraveling the Tiger Mom Myth"
Adding a poignant layer to this discussion, Bai Qiong and Chen Jing are not just any parents—they are my wife's colleagues, and our connection goes deeper as my wife is the godmother to one of their kids from our time in Beijing. Our candid dialogue continues as Bai Qiong and Chen Jing narrate the evolution of their parenting strategies, delving into heart-wrenching memories from their children's infancy. They address the delicate balance between familial expectations in education and nurturing their children's passions while preparing them for school.
To enrich the conversation further, they draw comparisons between Chinese and Western parenting styles and educational approaches, introducing the concept of the "tiger mom" into the mix. This thought-provoking aspect sparks reflections on the influence of a more assertive parenting style and its impact on children's development.
As we explore their personal journey further, parallels are drawn between family dynamics and the natural world, unveiling unexplored perspectives on familial roles and the equilibrium between professional and family life. Bai Qiong and Chen Jing emphasize the significance of cultivating creativity and instilling respect, fundamental pillars that have shaped their unique approach to parenting. This enriching discussion concludes with wishes for ongoing health and happiness, setting the stage for more engaging sessions. Prepare to witness the realm of parenting through a fresh lens as we navigate this wild safari alongside Bai Qiong, Chen Jing, and our own experience with five children.
three.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to our podcast. The two AM Club. The honey bunny, how you doing my love.
Speaker 1:I'm very good.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a nice new location. Exactly Did we change homes.
Speaker 1:Homes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's a new location.
Speaker 1:But we did not change a little bit slower. I didn't get that question. We're actually on holidays, yeah, still in the UAE.
Speaker 2:I feel like we've been on holidays for a long time now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Last podcast episode we talked about Nepal and we're again out and about, but this time just one and a half hours away from Dubai in the Fujairah Mountains.
Speaker 2:Exactly and with very special guests.
Speaker 1:Very, very special guests. Hello, Hello.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello, so we know Bai Cheng and Qing Qing from a long time ago but not too long, because we're not that old.
Speaker 4:A little bit old, but so who's that?
Speaker 1:Who's?
Speaker 3:here and yeah, qing, qing you could always call me, and actually I'm Qing. And then, yeah, we know each other long time, like 10 years ago, more than yeah, okay, and now two boys mom, one is seven, one is nine, yeah, it's great right. Yeah, oh yeah, it was wonderful.
Speaker 1:And who else we?
Speaker 4:have here. Hello, this is QQ, mommy of two daughters, and we are friends with many more for more than 10 years, and this is our reunion after seven years apart.
Speaker 2:The last trip was in the South of China right. Yeah in Dalai. That was a beautiful time. No kids.
Speaker 3:That was one in my belly, but it wasn't out yet you know, it was no kids there was exactly such a different world. Such a different, different world, we can do whatever we want, actually.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, super, super happy to have you here Exactly.
Speaker 3:Very exciting yeah.
Speaker 1:It's really, really nice. We made it happen to see each other again. It's been a long time. True, true, true.
Speaker 2:So a little bit backstory. You guys used to work together, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly so 2010 we were a girls team in Beijing. Yeah and yeah, friends, since then, Also godmother. Exactly Of little Sophia. She's also with us this time who's Sophia?
Speaker 2:for those listeners who don't know who Sophia is, Sorry the daughter of QQ.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's also with us today and we'll do a special episode with her because she loves to be a radio moderator, instagrammer. So we'll see. We'll see what we come up with.
Speaker 2:So how has it been?
Speaker 3:Which part.
Speaker 2:All of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you want to start QQ.
Speaker 4:Maybe starting from holidays. That's it, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:And, technically, you're the first one to have had a child of the group right, so you should actually start first.
Speaker 3:Oh well, actually my first child actually from the delivery was really easy, so that's the reason why I would like to have the second one Very close, only one and a half year, but I mean that's the second one by accident and yeah, it was an accident, it wasn't yeah it was not planned.
Speaker 3:Actually, I planned for have two boys, but I mean the second one was by accident because I didn't expect that to a close for the two boys. Yeah, so the first one was really easy because we have a lot of helpers my parents and my husband's help parents and also IE yeah, you know, in China we have really a lot, and so I didn't feel a lot of troubles when I have the first one. So very easy. And also, summer, my elder one, the first boy, very easy to erase him, apart from the sleeping part actually really suffering from the sleeping at the very beginning. And, yeah, apart from sleeping, everything was fine. And so we had the second one and, yeah, a little change in the world. So, because they are, oh, yeah, hi.
Speaker 1:He's waving to us in the background. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm very naughty one and yeah, so yeah, I mean that was actually for me a long time ago, so I couldn't really remember like to reason the kids. I mean for me. I think in my family we're really like doing the separate jobs, Like everyone has their own responsibility, and for my mom is mainly taking care of the babies healthy and then to feed them and then to like for the safety things, and for my father is like just be the driver to everybody.
Speaker 2:I do feel that is my job, among others, among others.
Speaker 3:And for me as many on the education part, you're starting from very like a little baby and then start to read the stories and for all the other things, of course, I would say that for the first boy I did a lot of like useful things and not useful things. And yeah, to summarize that for the second baby, and then I just forget for a give up for the useful, not useful things actually.
Speaker 2:What's that word in China for the non useful things? No, John.
Speaker 3:Yeah, useless, competition useless competition. Yeah, a new word you learned during this trip, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you'll hear more about this later and my phone are gonna be my two new Chinese words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you learned. So what was the most Okay? Okay, Hand over.
Speaker 4:No egg, I don't mind if you just pass.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, tell us.
Speaker 4:Well, for us, I think the starting from the first one, the biggest challenge was actually also the sleeping part, because, like you, simply you won't expect that you need to wake up every two or three hours maximum during the midnight and fit the baby and change the diapers and then keep doing this routine for like at least first few months. So that was like overwhelming for us at the very beginning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually I think no one told us that sleeping will be a problem for a baby. Actually, that's the most important part. Actually, when I had the first baby, I think we both don't know sleeping should be a thing.
Speaker 4:It's always think you expect, like that, breastfeeding because there are so many products, right, and then like for baby clothes, whatever, like everybody will tell you so so to buy the list of products. But nobody taught you or warned you. Hey, you should actually rest well before your baby come.
Speaker 2:And you guys had your family there because they were in China at the same time. For us was the same.
Speaker 4:No one told us yeah, for us my parents. They just came for a visit, but fortunately in Singapore we have this kind of a confinement nanny culture, so you can hire some special trained nannies for the first one or two months. They just come and help you take care of your baby. So for the new mommy the biggest task actually is just produce the milk and feed the baby. But even with that, nobody taught you what will happen when your milk flow comes at the beginning, it never stops, and then you need to watch out.
Speaker 4:You need to at least pump every two to three hours, otherwise you get this kind of a blockrage. Nobody actually taught you, unless maybe probably from your mommy, if you had this kind of conversation.
Speaker 3:But normally I mean mommy. That was already 30 or 40 years ago. So they remember right. They couldn't really remember and share with you and at their generation and our generation is totally different situation, so definitely couldn't share too much and they always, because the people always remember the very beautiful things and so the disaster, and they normally forget it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is very true and that's always what we talked about in the podcast a lot. Yeah, that no one really tells you. So you really get hit by by truck. Yeah, you have no idea, and there's not sleeping, it's just torture. It's really like torture not not to sleep. And I remember we saw QQ in Singapore when Sophia was around about three months old and I remember that she looked so tired. Yeah, you look so tired, but I, you know I was like I didn't think of it anything, but now I know I'm like oh, now I know, yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's like when I look back now, especially for a person like me, I really need my whole night sleep, otherwise I couldn't function, you know more than a whole night, more like half day. This is that was in our memory.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 4:And then for a person like me to suddenly have to change to that kind of a routine it was really overwhelming.
Speaker 4:But then the good thing is, after a few months you kind of your body like, adjust itself, get used to it, but still without any help. I mean for me I think for my first one I was saying it's already very good in a way because you have this Conferment 90, who have a lot of experience, who can kind of guide you, tell you what to do, and then they just need to bring the baby to you like midnight, so it's already relatively easier, I would say, but still very challenging.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can't really imagine without a helper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when was the second big change from like small baby to big one? Because I mean, it's not like it gets easier, right? It's just different complications later on, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly. And the second change actually for us was like because in Singapore we only have four months, so I had to kind of send my baby to the infant care when she was just four months old. That was the biggest change for you At the very beginning. When you stay with your baby for four months you kind of like really attach to her and then suddenly you need to send her to under someone else care or like who you totally don't know, you have no idea. But then at the very beginning it's very hard to hear the baby cry, especially after the teacher or Nanny's bringing the baby in and then she's just started crying nonstop. Then you have to tell yourself, okay, be tough and then leave.
Speaker 4:Now I had to adjust that for about one month, otherwise it's totally different. The feeling itself comparing with sending the first one to the childcare and then now with the second kids, it's totally different. When we send the second kids to the school it's like okay, stop going bye. So it's much easier. But when you are new parents, all those kind of feelings like you need to kind of expect and hopefully can prepare yourself when it comes.
Speaker 1:Jingjing. When did you go back to work? How about in China? How does it work?
Speaker 3:I think for the first one it was like a same, very similar four to five months.
Speaker 1:For the second one, I think, a little bit longer seven to eight months back and then also they went to infant care or they stay with your parents.
Speaker 3:I stay with my parents, and those who we have are at home, so a lot of people do help.
Speaker 1:For us it was more so I didn't have this because and I could do a home office, so that made things so much easier. So I knew he's in good hands and I felt. It makes such a difference I can imagine. To really bring the baby then to the infant care is another step right, Because yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:And all those teachers, like they, are strangers to your baby, right? So it's like new environment, new teachers and everything is new, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:For me, actually, the second big challenge, apart from the sleeping, would be to align the education concept within our family. I would say, but they should come at a later stage, right?
Speaker 3:No, from the very beginning I would say. Because, yeah, as explained that we are a very big family. We have the grandparents to take care of the kids and you know from the grandparents it's definitely different from the parents to teach the kids. So for a lot of things in my concept I said, no, it's not a lot. But the grandparents think, yes, they can do whatever they want. And then we just, yeah, make them happy or something. But I mean, you should give them some rules of which they can do, which they cannot do. So this really takes me a long journey to align everyone to have the same concept. So now in our family that we have the yeah, everybody has the same concept.
Speaker 2:Okay Sounds like a great Chinese leader.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah. So everybody needs to follow what I set up, right?
Speaker 2:Which no one is surprised about right.
Speaker 3:Totally no this is normal. And also I mean from father. Yeah, my husband also. Yeah, we talk really a lot and at the very beginning I mean maybe the education, we had the different expectations. But after we discussed and we need to find a way, like everybody needs to be aligned with you. Not me. I mean this discussed, yeah, the co-work yeah. So yeah, I think this really takes a long time long journey until now, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think for you right now, the difficulty is the education part right, exactly, that's true, I mean when you look at the Asian part, education compared to Western world or Middle Eastern world. This is two totally different worlds.
Speaker 1:Completely yeah.
Speaker 2:Like for us the way you educate. We see it as a tiger mom and we actually really love that Like.
Speaker 1:that's also something that we also want to Very strict right and turns on for that.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say strict, but it's very.
Speaker 1:No, I mean now, for example. Samar had to do his homework during the holiday because he has to. Well, he has a test he has to write an essay and write a test right. So I think that's very good, and I mean you combine pleasure with With pain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can say that, but actually in Chinese moms I am really more relaxed one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Just we had too much like holidays and we have too much activities outside rather than just study.
Speaker 2:But I think that's really good is having the balance between the two right yeah. Yeah, I think, for On the Western side you would be like super tiger mom. In Asia you're maybe the smaller tiger mom.
Speaker 3:Not even, not even.
Speaker 1:QQ. How was that in your home?
Speaker 4:Well, in terms of education, I think it's not at the moment. But we do like to get like with my husband, thomas. We do have kind of different views because parents, especially Chinese parents in Singapore, they're also very genuine Like in terms of academic learning. So we love this kind of enrichment class and there is such a good business for enrichment classes in Singapore. But for me I kind of feel like my kids are still kind of young. I want them to enjoy their childhood and before they start the real learning journey that is primary school. So now at the moment it's more like we try to culture her interest, like see what she likes to do and if Like, for example, for piano, we try to send her to the piano class during the COVID time. But she's simply not interested.
Speaker 4:So, most of the kids won't like it Because it's tough, right, you need to repeat, repeat out on time. So then we kind of gave up. But Thomas didn't really like it because he's more like Jean right, like he was thinking no children will like it. So we need to kind of force them, like kind of kick them and then eventually, when they get used to it, then they will like it. But for me it's like a rather like wait until they start their primary school, then show my like hopefully not so Tiger Mommy side. But at least I don't feel it's not the right time now.
Speaker 2:I feel like Jung has a little bit of a Tiger Mom hiding inside right Like you know still kind of hiding in the grass.
Speaker 4:Maybe, maybe in the family. You just need one parent to do that job.
Speaker 2:Do you think it's more you, or would it be more Thomas?
Speaker 4:I think, actually in terms of the schooling, that would be Thomas he, because he has some friends who really is a Tiger Mommy, so they like this. This lady always sends pictures or saying like when their girl is on the concert, so they kind of like showing off, so they send all those pictures to him. Then when he see it or read it, then he's like, oh, my girl can't do nothing, so stress, stress.
Speaker 2:Remember we met that Russian mom actually. Oh, yes, this is my daughter and she's in the gymnastics schools pre-olympian blah blah, and we're like that's nice.
Speaker 4:She's doing like this and the ballet and she's like the fastest runner and oh my god, I think those are all the messages where you kind of got from the parents around us Like, yeah, look, this is my girl who can dance there.
Speaker 1:I mean actually we're kind of automatically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So I mean Moonanui walked early and we're like, oh look, he's walking early, but actually I always tell myself it's completely irrelevant, yeah, it doesn't say anything, I walk very late, I'm still smart. So this is yeah, but of course I mean as a parent, you're trying to see the, you know, but the good things, but yeah, I think we have to always slow down and especially not show off. Yeah, don't make feel other parents bad, right, because they get this walking later or doing whatever not as good, etc. They're just all different. But the competitive side.
Speaker 2:I mean in Asia. It's very highly competitive. I mean already the schools, everything I remember before Get into the nursery.
Speaker 1:I think I remember in Hong Kong the colleagues.
Speaker 2:Wasn't it Qingqing that said one time they had to like write an essay or had to do a test to get into a nursery or something in Shanghai?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the time yeah what did they have to do? Have to do some interviews if you want to do go some good kindergarten, but actually there is no more now and it's not allowed, and also not allowed for the primary school anymore, because now we are in the pool normally and then this will be like random, yeah, choosing. Just like lucky draw, yeah, just like a lucky draw.
Speaker 2:But you guys also right, you had to go through, because now Sophia is going to a new school that you guys just soon. So you had like your three top choices. Thomas had to do some stuff how did it go.
Speaker 4:Well, it's pretty tough. And then you have to kind of manage your expectations, like we kind of through this kind of up and down cycles during this summer. So first of all, in Singapore there's no interview in terms of public school. I don't know about the private school or international school, because as a Singaporean citizen, kids are not allowed to go to the international school, so we have to go to the private school, same for China, others to the public school. So then, in terms of public schools, they are, although the system says every school is a good school, still, like people know which are the best ones, right. So we kind of have our best hope. And then before that we kind of choose our, our, our like top tier school, which is a Hocken, like this kind of hui guan sponsored schools. And Thomas originally is from Fujian province. Like his grandparents they kind of moved from China to Singapore during that generation. So because of this kind of origin he could become a member and contribute 80 hours volunteer work. Then with that we have the chance to join the balloting during kind of so-called 2B.
Speaker 4:So there are different kind of registrations phase for Singapore primary schools. The easiest one is like if you have siblings or if your parents is one of the alumni, then your kids just automatically go in. Then next year is 2B, that is the the you need to do homework, the volunteer work. And then we went there and failed. So then we moved to the next level, which is 2C. So there was a school nearby our house, with it's within one kilometers. We went there and failed again because simply the competition was so high. There were only six, six seats and there were more than 170 kids applying for those seats. So we failed again. And then we moved to another tier, which is 2C supplementary. Then finally we got a place in the school, but then the problem now is like it's far away and there is no school bus and we don't drive because in Singapore it's just way too expensive to drive. So at the moment, like this is the biggest challenge for us to prepare her school starting from next January.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really crazy actually.
Speaker 4:What a crazy challenge right.
Speaker 2:Schools in general. Right now I feel every country has problems with the school system. It's getting places then wanting your child to get into like a really good school system. Okay, apart from the curriculum, that can be bad or good, but just getting into a school seems already problematic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I mean it's just the increase of population, I guess I don't know, because even in Germany also, to get into nurseries, kindergarten, it's very difficult. They have to wait years to get a spot. It's for free, but well, that doesn't help you if you don't get a spot right.
Speaker 2:But I think it's not only increase of population, I think there's also not enough teachers and who wants to be a teacher today? Badly paid, horrible. You don't get any respect from parents or from society itself. Very challenging. A lot of work, a lot of work for very little pay and very little actually.
Speaker 1:Most importantly, being surrounded by devils all day.
Speaker 3:Actually it's going to change, like in China, I mean in five years, because now no one wants to have a kid, so the birth rate is going down really a lot.
Speaker 4:Well, that will help, but in a way I still don't really believe in it because in like countries like in Singapore or Korea, because every year the government say our birth rate is so low, we need more like encourage young, especially young couples, to have more kids. But the problem is like when you have a kid and then later on there's kind of all the education, like nursery, primary school is like always such a huge competition.
Speaker 2:It's so much fun I don't understand where's the the competition?
Speaker 4:because it's supposed to like. You have next kids in this year, right in a specific year, then it should be relatively easier for my kids to go to the our dream school, but then it's still. No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like huh, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right, the story doesn't fit together right.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And then also, I mean they want to encourage you to have kids, but then it's, it's so hard, yeah, and they don't.
Speaker 2:They don't make it easier for parents to actually want to have more kids or for young couples to have kids. There is no really help surrounding it. Maybe you pay a little bit taxes, but then it's still not very easy to raise a child.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know Definitely.
Speaker 2:The government doesn't push you. Actually, they tell you make more kids, but they're like all right, fine then, give me more help.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cost to raise the kids is really high. Yeah, super high yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean this was really funny. The other day we're at home and I think it was summer Sonny said, oh, after the Ferrari world. And they're like, oh, daddy, I want a Ferrari. And I kind of joked. I was like, actually, I looked at Liang and I was like you know what we actually do? Have Ferraris. I was like it's our child.
Speaker 3:Yeah, true, that's true.
Speaker 2:I was like look at Liang and look at Ching Ching, they have two Ferraris.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They have two.
Speaker 2:Ferraris walking around Like we have a Maserati or like a high end Porsche model now, but you guys are like full on Ferraris though, right, I mean the cost and everything that's running around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, coming to another topic, how was, for you, the change from one to two kids?
Speaker 3:Actually, because for us, I mean, they are super close, like only one and a half year. So I don't really feel too much at the very beginning, because as it's just not as that we have a lot of helpers, than because and also when they are really young, and then I mean there's really not much differences. What I feel the difference is when they are both in the primary school. Actually, yeah, because I need to spend a lot of time for both of them on the homeworks and also they do a lot of musical instruments, so that's really time consuming. I mean really I need to spend a lot of time on it.
Speaker 3:So every night start from I mean 6, 30 until 9, because 9 normally the time they go sleep, and for this two and a half hour it's really very intensive. So I have to separate my time for both of them and for one kids, and then he's I normally they check their homework. Well, the iPad and the teacher leave the homework on the iPad and they can check by themselves and do by themselves. And the other kids I need to accompany for the musical instrument, a piano or the double bass or yeah, on template. It's really a lot of to do, I would say, just for the education part, I see the changes actually at the very beginning. I mean it's really fine you can focus on one.
Speaker 1:So basically you have two jobs right your your office job and then, once you reach home, yeah, exactly yeah, that's the hardest one.
Speaker 3:I would say harder one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the office job is so much easier, right.
Speaker 3:Oh, compared to this, yeah, at least I can manage.
Speaker 4:I think everyone can kind of relate to that, right yeah and the other one I do the night.
Speaker 3:I mean sometimes out of my control. So that's the part I don't like.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, how are you? Well, for us, I think at the very beginning it's like when you know you're pregnant with the second one. It's like to manage the other ones expectation, because I want to make sure she feels okay and she she also kind of welcoming the, the, the sister or brother later because I think for our ones because two, two, two, two, two children, they're kind of three years and half apart. So for Sophia she kind of already understands like she she's used to daddy mommy's attention all the time during the past three years and suddenly there will be one baby come to to share this attention, probably take away most of the time from from us, especially at the very beginning. So we kind of manage, like you need to tell her like, oh, there will be someone coming and you can play with her.
Speaker 4:Actually, at the very beginning we ask like do you want to have a sister or brother coming? She's like, yeah, of course I want to have a sister. They're like okay, good, so because for some babies they are different, like before, before I was pregnant with the second one, like I heard already, some babies they really don't want to have another sister or brothers. So fortunately for us, sophia was okay. And then another challenge, I think that is the the manage the time spending with each of them. That is the biggest challenge, because they are simply very easy to get jealous. If you spend time with this one, then the other one will complain, and then if you only spend this one with the little sister, then the older one will think, like why, what's going on? Like why you don't love me anymore and you only spend time with my little sister. So I think this is kind of one of the challenges probably for parents.
Speaker 4:For parents who have two or more than two kids. It's like how to manage your time spending with them.
Speaker 2:Would you have three?
Speaker 3:Definitely no.
Speaker 4:Shop is also close to us. I would think two is the best number.
Speaker 1:I think zero is the best number.
Speaker 2:I think one zero to one is the best number.
Speaker 1:I'm still not delighted, I'm still debating internally. Sometimes one is OK, sometimes I can do with zero, oh my God. But I think what is interesting, what you said, the jealousy part, and you recently shared a reel with me where it said love for kids, love equals time. So actually the person that spends the most time with them, they believe, gives the most love. So of course, once that time is reduced, they believe you love less.
Speaker 2:They don't have the concept of love yet.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So they have concept of who spends more time with me, and even time. I think they have no concept whatsoever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that was interesting because then they interpreted like that. So yeah, I also felt a bit sad because I know I spent actually least time with him. Yeah, yeah, but I mean and I hope he doesn't interpret it in the wrong way, but I think there's also difference.
Speaker 2:I think that whole saying was a little bit too short and cut, because I think it's quality time. I think it's the quality as the most, because a lot of people think like, oh, I spend, I meet a lot of stay at home. Moms like, oh, I have all the time with my child. I was like, yeah, but if you spend 10 hours a day with your child, then nine of them are on your phone or somewhere else. Exactly but the child is there. That doesn't mean anything, right.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean exactly Right, and that's what I told Svenja. Yes, you don't spend the most amount of time with Munanui, but when you're with Munanui, you're full on there and it's a quality, whether it's a 15 or 20 or one hour time.
Speaker 2:it's the quality time that counts, and it's the same for your partner. I mean, in COVID this was so true. So many people were at home together and the divorce rates were skyrocket. Yet everyone was together all the time. So time didn't mean love. Time turned to hate. I think hate time made the hate more prevalent and more open, right. And then you're like well, I mean, if I'm really going to spend this amount of time and I really don't want to be with this person for that long, I think this is not going to work out. But it's more about the quality.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true. I mean, that's really really important. So, yeah, because I think. Yeah, because, since I'm working mama, so what? I spend the time with my kids when they were very young and then I just would like the quality time. Yeah, because I only have certain time for the kids after work. Yeah, so yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, but I would say that it's also different from the kids. Some kids really need the company, but some kids they need, like, a independent time.
Speaker 3:Yes, I mean your two kids are totally different, yeah, totally different, yeah, so interesting he has the quiet book reader that can be you actually like.
Speaker 2:The other day he was in the car with us driving here and I forgot that he was in the car.
Speaker 3:Exactly, that's the same for us If only this is really dangerous. If only Sam Rae at home, I couldn't feel him. And he's just hiding in the corner and pick a book to write.
Speaker 2:It's quite dangerous because you can go on holidays with him right, and then you just kind of leave.
Speaker 3:And then he's still in the hotel reading books Exactly, and you're like halfway across the world.
Speaker 2:He's like, oh wait, I forgot my hold on one second.
Speaker 1:And yesterday you were with Sophia and Sunny. How was that?
Speaker 2:It was quiet, they fell asleep, oh, ok.
Speaker 1:OK, so it was fine, they were tired. Yeah, I was also tired. I think I almost fell asleep driving back also. Very reassuring. It's fine, no worries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, then you have the other one, who is much more social, who is? All the ladies apparently talk to him. He knows all the girls in the school.
Speaker 3:The naughty one. The naughty one, the talking one.
Speaker 2:How about? Are there big differences for yours oh?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, my two girls. They are very different. I think Sophia is relatively quiet once as well. It seems like the second one is always not here, the older one, at least, that is from my friends, like all of my friends I talk to. When they have two children, then it's like always like the second one, always the naughty one, always try to poke their older brother or sisters. And yeah, I think it's. I could relate it to Jinjin's.
Speaker 2:But I would never say Sophia is a quiet one, no, relatively quiet one, yeah because you haven't spent much time with Alicia yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because the second normally they need attention from the parents, so that's the reason that normally they are the most like. Yeah, need company and a lot of requirement from the parents. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I wanted to go into the topic of partnering.
Speaker 2:I thought you were going to ask me what's the difference between our kids?
Speaker 1:Just one shop is closed too. What was for you? Did anything change in the partnership with your husband? So how do you feel about parenting and partnering?
Speaker 3:Actually a hard topic. You want to start?
Speaker 1:You're still debating how honest you want to be. I'm just kidding, yeah, well well. I mean we can? That was a big boom. I don't know. Daddy Liang is there and no, actually Ladin is there.
Speaker 2:No one is rushing with the leading child.
Speaker 1:No, I mean we can start sharing from our side right, Because for us it was, I mean we were, we were even together since a very long time, before we had a kid.
Speaker 2:Not that long.
Speaker 1:Not that long 12 years and we never really fought before. I mean, when we fought, it was, yeah, quite seldom, yeah. But then when we had once, we had Munna Nui, I mean we were fighting all the time. It was horrible and we were really suffering. And I mean we, luckily, we immediately talked about it, always after a fight happened and we were like, okay, why did that happen again? So stupid discussing about the scarf or I would explode about the smallest things. And yeah, I mean we really felt changes of the partnership. I think until today, we're always trying to okay, now it's time for partnership. Now we're not parents, now it's you and me.
Speaker 2:It's like two CEOs running the same company, right yeah. And then sometimes you're like I want to do it my way and then, like I don't understand why the other one didn't understand, Like how do you not see that this is how it should be done, right?
Speaker 1:Exactly like yesterday the little example we had. Right, we were in the store and there was this plane toy and then Munna Nui just grabbed it. And I just let him grab it because I didn't see any issue there. And then, but I knew once that I will take it away, he'll cry. But I was like, okay, then he just cries. But then Moe's opinion was don't give him the toy at the first place because I don't want him to cry. And so we just have different ways.
Speaker 2:I didn't want him to cry, because I didn't want to hear him cry. I don't care if he cries, because I took the toy away.
Speaker 1:You just didn't want to hear that.
Speaker 2:I just didn't want to hear his cry on that moment. That was the last thing I needed at that point. I was like I just want to sit down, have something ice-cold to drink and just kind of relax and not hear a child cry.
Speaker 1:But it's like these small things that can make you very aggravated, right, and if it happens a lot, I think you can build up a lot of resentment. I don't think it happens a lot.
Speaker 2:I think we just tend to remember the bad things and not the good things sometimes and then we don't. And then we'll criticize one partner and we'll only criticize about the bad stuff, but then we won't say, hey, by the way, you did a great job today at the pool or at this set.
Speaker 1:True, we're not actually complimenting each other for the things that went. Very good, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly which actually happened. A lot more than the bad stuff.
Speaker 1:Like the hiking yesterday, I was very proud of us that we just let him walk on these stones. That could have stretched his knees. Yeah, I think, yeah, you're right. Actually, we should do that a lot more to point out the positive things.
Speaker 2:I mean, we should still point out the negative part also.
Speaker 1:Really, Definitely do not happen on my side. So yeah even I would say we're a very happy, balanced couple. But it was very tough. It's still tough. I think we really have to work on that and try not to fight too much or get it out of the air immediately so that it doesn't build up to something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's really need like for the couple they need to get away to, for both are comfortable with. So this is like a little bit journey. I would say at the very beginning, also for us the same. And then, because we have the different views on the kids definitely, and so we need to like when the time flies, and then you'll normally like to get to there. So, yeah, same as you that before we have kids, we never fight, we never even like angry to each other.
Speaker 3:And then after we have the kids and starts, especially at the first two years, I would say, and so for after that we already get used to the way we, what we do and I already know what he will do actually for this and he knows me very well for the case. So and so, after that, a little bit journey, and then we almost there for us, and then, so now for the educations and to select the schools and then to what kind of classes they need to go, all these kind of things and the what, our, what would be our articular attitude and concept to educate the kids. And then we all like discuss, like every week, like normally, on the way to work on all we like like normally we have like a one day every week and then find out each other and have dinner or something and then we just talk and so we share our experience on this one, so all the decision we make together actually. So this is the way we find out for us. And then, yeah, of course, I still angry with him sometimes when he like watch out, company the kids for the homework and then he's like checking, checking with the phone and then look at the phone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the most angry part for me actually. When I see it, I cannot control myself and I normally shot at the yard around him. Yeah, that's the part. And for the other things I would say, all the decisions making, of course, the some research will be done by me and the, but we always talk on this part. So I think like talking and sharing is really important for the partners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's very good to hear. Actually, I think that's really the key to communicate.
Speaker 4:Yeah well, for me I couldn't echo more that what you said. I think with before kids, when just two of you, it's much like peaceful and happy time. I'm not indicating like with having kids is not happy anymore, but it just from different. It's very different from all those kind of a little things as you just mentioned, just from like a toy, like probably there'll be kind of two consequences, like with Thomas. I also like like we have to fight or different opinions when it comes to little things. Actually, for us I think we don't have any big how to say in terms of the goal, for example, education. I think eventually we'll meet there, but just how to get there, we have different views and also probably expectations. Then during this process we feel like no, I don't agree with you, I don't agree with you either. Then if we can talk it out, then it's good. But sometimes we are like this kind of a very quiet ones, we don't talk. Then, with all this kind of a small dissentement like building up, then eventually we're like it blows up Exactly.
Speaker 4:So one day, when it's brought up, blows up, then it's like ah, there will be either a big fight or they just like don't talk with each other for a few days, which is not really healthy. But I guess we're still during the journey. We're still figuring out how to best parenting in terms of the, especially in terms of the education. I think for us we don't have any issue like how to kind of take care of them, like just feed them, because that part I think somehow it's past now.
Speaker 4:It's past now and we kind of cooperate very well, but in terms of education we still have different opinions.
Speaker 2:I think in the beginning it's actually we teach our children two survival parts. The first survival is the daily survival food.
Speaker 4:Yeah, your concerns are totally different.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And then the second one the education is survival for that child, for long life, For the future For the future right. Exactly, but it's two of the same things, but just one short term and then the other one is really long term. But the short term is kind of nicer because you know, at the end of the day you look at the baby at sleep and you're like, okay, good job, I did my job, I'm done.
Speaker 4:But the long part.
Speaker 2:You're like I don't know what he's gonna be or what is the job they're gonna do, Like are they gonna be happy, are they gonna be things?
Speaker 4:But that answer you don't even have yet and it's so much harder, yeah, and then it's just like it's an open ending story, right? You have no idea what happened.
Speaker 2:And you're not even done right, because you're on your own journey. You're on a journey to better yourself, then you're on a journey with your partner, then you're on a journey with your children, then you have two children. So that means two individual children that are on a single journey, but with a group journey.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and also in terms of sometimes like it's like is there really something you want your kids to do? Is this the best for them, like if this is something they want to do? So sometimes I always have this kind of debating with myself. It's like is this really something good for your kids? Oh, this is just something you want them to do Of course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the most part we talk about. We will see that whether they really want it or we want it, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And then the good part is do they want it or do we make them want to want it?
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Because of course they're a blank slate right.
Speaker 3:We call it POA in China.
Speaker 2:POA. Yeah, this kind of yeah, so I mean, they're just a blank slate, they don't know jobs or whatever. And then we kind of like, let them paint the picture, a little bit like the picture that Bai Cheng and Qing Qing gave to you, where there's the numbers inside. But you let them paint, but you put the numbers. The number of paintings you kind of hope it's the portrait you had in mind.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that is probably the least thing as a parent you can do, right, you just give them the options and then hopefully they know, they know what to choose, but you never know what's gonna happen throughout the journey.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I think options is such a great. I mean there was one person who said the richer you are, or richness should be measured by how many options you have.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's such a good like you just want your child to have the most best options ever. Yeah, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I think for me what I always said, that what is so important for me is the value part, because I think that's something that really sticks with them right. Like be respectful to others and yeah, I think that is the rest. You know what kind of job he will choose. I mean, I think we have very limited impact here. Yeah, I mean, hopefully not.
Speaker 4:And also we don't know right, Because now it's this kind of AI like it's like you don't know what's going to happen in 20 years.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 4:And probably what you think like nowadays. You would think like, as a banker, lawyers, doctors those are the best jobs, but maybe it doesn't matter in 20 years because the robot can do a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think this is also kind of not right because if you look back 50 years ago, when the industrial revolution really happened, right and Ford made these big lines with robots, everybody thought that the robots would eliminate all jobs, but it didn't. It just created newer jobs and different jobs that didn't exist best in the day and that now exist, yeah, but I think it's just more of a. I think AI will, but that's a totally different subject.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I would like to talk about this because, yeah, I'd love to talk about this, but you have another session, yeah because I think that's just going to create newer jobs and some jobs will disappear, but I don't think all jobs will disappear.
Speaker 2:It just will create newer jobs. And yeah, I do agree.
Speaker 4:At different levels.
Speaker 2:So I think that's where the parent needs to be. You need to look in the past, but you also need to be aware of what the future is and aware of what future jobs are, like you know, I think, for, like Qing Qing, she does programming for her kids, right, but also musical instruments Two things, one from the past and one from the future, and I think that's such a great, nice balance of the two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, just give them the option again, like you said.
Speaker 2:Right, but they're actually very similar because music is about learning keys right and very precise keys and coding is almost the same thing. So it's I mean I kind of like Qing Qing style of.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, thank you.
Speaker 2:I mean the other day, when she was screaming at.
Speaker 1:Summer, that's summer.
Speaker 2:Doing his homework, I felt sad, but I was also like I mean, why hasn't he learned not to do it again?
Speaker 3:And then he learned in the next day there was no mistake.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, see.
Speaker 1:There, you go.
Speaker 2:Fear, fear and love Go hand in hand. Fear and love go hand in hand.
Speaker 1:But again, I think it really also depends on the kid. That's why I always say there is no right or wrong. There's just a way with different, different way with different kids.
Speaker 2:You did not need fear, I needed fear.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I mean, no one had to scream at me, I just did it and I actually liked it.
Speaker 2:I think Sophia will be the same. I think Sophia is yeah.
Speaker 1:You mean, she will do it by herself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4:No, I think Sophia is more like you. She needs the fear.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think you will have to.
Speaker 4:I think so too. Yeah, and for Alicia. For Alicia, I think she's a totally different human being. Fear doesn't work on her.
Speaker 1:Same for.
Speaker 4:Sunny actually. So hopefully one day she could be like Svenja, like I can do her own thing and do it right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because actually, really looking back, no one ever did homework with me Like we.
Speaker 2:I just did that and I actually liked to do it. They were afraid. They were afraid of you.
Speaker 1:No, I actually like doing this. I don't know, it's a bit weird. I'm poor when I'm new. No, I mean, yeah, let's see about this education. Because I mean, for now, I remember my first moment where it was about education, when he wanted to touch the oven and then, you know, I told him no, I don't know, he was very young. And then I told him no, and obviously no wasn't a concept for him. So I just touched it and I was like, so how do I react now? Do I scream at him? Do I Like? What do I do now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think Let him burn his finger and learn what fire means that's daddy way, but then I still had to find my way and I think that will keep on.
Speaker 2:Daddy lets him touch the oven, not get into the oven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's so interesting, so let's see later when it comes to finding the right school and yeah, I'm a bit scared of this, to be honest yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm also a bit the more stories I hear about the school part and everything I mean. I was already fearful because I know how competitive and how the Asian children are brought up and that competition is going to be Muna Nui's competition on the workforce. Yeah, and this is already something that's sitting in the back of my mind, especially since Gale.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, my former colleague right from Hong Kong that moved from Hong Kong to Singapore and he shared with us his experiences to finding a school there, and there was a school that had already Bloomberg terminals for Ten. I don't know teenagers like ten years old, twelve years old or whatever, so very, very young, where they learn already how the financial markets are working how to trade. So there is a.
Speaker 2:How to trade on live Bloomberg terminals for like ten-year-old. And I was sitting there going like, wow, if we have a child that's going to be his competition. And then you see in the West they're like, oh look, nice hand painting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's more the laissez-faire and they should do whatever they want and don't say you know, there's this concept of Is it Montessori, I don't know Like the concept of you should not tell a kid when it does something good, because you don't want them just to do it. So you tell them that they did good. I don't know why.
Speaker 2:Actually, Because your boss tells you.
Speaker 1:You painted a picture that is a house with the horse. You know like you're more supposed to repeat what's on the picture, or, but don't judge. Basically right, Like wow, well done, you know, and yeah so.
Speaker 2:Are these types schoolings? Do they exist in Asia?
Speaker 3:Like in Singapore, you also Also yeah.
Speaker 2:So are they very up and up, or is it not? A lot of parents go there.
Speaker 3:Actually, I think, especially on the early age. Yes, a lot of parents because they need to learn how to raise their kids, but of course, some parents they would like to. For some parents they want to educate their kids like this, but for some they don't really care, they just would like to use their own way. I mean, yeah, it really depends on the family, but we have this, but normally it's for the early age, but also, I think, for the, because for the kids they grow into 12 or wrong and they are going to change, and also for that we also have this kind of class for the parents to see how to help them. But the change to become a girl, to a woman or this kind of, yeah, oh, okay, interesting.
Speaker 2:Oh, a boy, yeah, interesting. Yeah, you brought that up. So.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're looking at me. I actually have another question that I wanted to ask. This is one from our list. Oh, okay, this. Has your child taught you anything about yourself or life in general? Have you learned from your children, actually, did it?
Speaker 3:teach myself. Actually very seldom to talk, but actually there was Just like two days ago, here we together to read the IC. This IC is called the small zoo in your home. This is the title of the IC, chinese IC, actually the homework the teacher gave and then need to see, like every family member in his eyes, like which animal would be. Oh yeah, that was interesting one, right. And so for in his eyes the brother will be a little monkey, because always do the city things and like up and down and this kind of things.
Speaker 3:Father, actually he was thinking about whether to choose pig or owl. Oh yeah, because pig will be very lazy, daddy always lie down on the bed, and for owl and because he always has a very weird question. And I asked him to go to the father because normally I have a lot of communication with the kids, especially on the academic things, and so for this kind of like knowledge I would like he to talk with the father. So I normally ask him to go for father and if father doesn't really know, and then he will find the answer together with the kids. So in his eyes will be either a pig or owl, so, and for me, he said, will be animal elephant, and most of the time he said I'm really gentle, but when he makes something very bad and then I sometimes will yell on him and become very angry. So yeah, this is what from his eyes. Actually, just two days ago, when here I did a homework with him together and then what we shared, and what animal was he?
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually he couldn't find out anyone and so for his part, he just leave it blank. Oh really, yeah.
Speaker 2:And what animals would you do? What animals would you if you the essay was? Now you had to do the essay? What animals would you see? Your kids, your husband and yourself?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's really hard actually for suddenly my younger one, definitely monkey. For everyone in our family we have the same view Father definitely, I think, pig, because in my eyes he I didn't see he just stand out by, working in the like, always on the bed and for myself.
Speaker 1:I am how about summer Summer?
Speaker 3:Summer.
Speaker 2:I actually would see more as an owl. Yeah, like a very quiet, but with always observing, observing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Knowledge like hunger for knowledge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Like he looks like the other. When he was sitting at his legs cross and reading the book he looked like a professor that did like a Harvard professor, that's, you know, like 80 years old, just like booking through right, like an old and wise animal Like an owl, like he looks like an owl yeah actually he would be the owl. He would be more the owl.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, I will tell him. Yeah, yeah, he is more like the quiet side and then very independent. Actually, he has his own thinking, he know what to do. Actually, to be honest, I don't need to arrange for him. But yeah, sometimes I cannot control myself. Yeah, and yourself, eiger, what makes Eiger? Actually?
Speaker 2:Most of the time I think I'm peaceful, but yeah sometimes I like how everyone took a step back and would like hmm, okay, question Question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but sometimes I cannot control because you know two kids, if you're not not like shouting on them, they are fighting all the time and you have to support them. And yeah, you have to like.
Speaker 2:I actually see Qingqing as a wolf leader of the pack. Right Elephant also does that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the elephant is actually so actually elephant I also like because the elephants also have a very strong team for family, actually family super important gentle, but also very and the female elephant because we just want to documentary. Okay, thank you for sharing. The female elephant is usually they will find one in the family and she will be the leader and everyone follows and and she's also quite strict actually.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:I think elephant is. Maybe he watched the same documentary.
Speaker 2:Okay, actually elephant is actually really really yeah, and they're very strong. I mean, they're very strong Also the gentle, but can also be that, that female, that the alpha elephant she was teaching the next one who would take her place afterwards.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so actually, yeah, it's quite very similar actually, and you by Chung.
Speaker 2:What did Sophia, what did any of your children teach you and teach me?
Speaker 4:Yeah, definitely, I think, for Alicia is still too, too young, I think we're not there yet. But Sophia definitely sometimes is like she will tell me why my mommy, why your company, like, like, because sometimes when I had a very stressful work during the day, then when I look at her, like she's around eight, eight or even nine pm, she's not sleeping yet. Then I start to kind of up Scrolling at her, like why not sleeping? And what did you do, like, have you read some book? Or did you do something? Or you just playing with some of your time? And she says like I'm just waiting for you.
Speaker 4:Why you're complaining, I just want to say goodnight with you before I go to bed. And then I'm like, no, what happened to me is like I shouldn't bring my how to say work stress into my private life. I think with this kind of work from home although in a way I really like it but on flip side of that, it's like it's very hard for me to kind of separate my work like and private life sometimes so from this kind of comments or remarks from your children. Sometimes you start to like, like, realize, or put our flag to yourself is like, hey, you need to stop. You need to go back to your normal mommy life, and now this work is done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they balance you a lot. For me also, like once I look, you know, when I'm at work and super stressed and like get very intense and I don't know about a certain topic, but then, you know, muna Noi walks in from nursery Hello, mama, you know, you're just like, oh, it just yeah, it just immediately brings your mind back to the things that are really important. I think this is really nice, you, yeah, I think kids really help to, yeah, to teach you what's actually important.
Speaker 2:They teach you what humanity is, again. It's not what's important, it's what humanity is. Because, when you're working, you're just this machine, but the child is just, it's pure human, just there and just being nothing more, nothing less. Doing it's job which is just being itself.
Speaker 4:They just tell you what matters in the life, right, like one of my ex-boss now good friends, michael used to tell us is like there is one day at around five he and he's like, okay, now I'm going home, why I stay in office while everybody hated me. But then when I go home, like you just have this kind of like very true smell, like every all the kids wanna hug you and welcome you home.
Speaker 4:It's like yeah, I couldn't really feel for that like past three years back, but now I really feel it. It's like why? Like why you spend so much time and energy sometimes at work, which lead you nowhere, but then you have something truly matters to you waiting for you at home and want you to come home, but then you stay still like long there in your in front of your screen. What's that for?
Speaker 2:I think that question actually the essay question what animal. You see, there's a great question that needs to be added to the list. So, baichang, what animals would you put on for your? What would be your zoo in your home? What would it look like my zoo? Yeah Well, actually Such a great question.
Speaker 4:Actually during the Tingtings conversation I start to think I think for Thomas. Actually I would refer him to any phone as well. I'm just not sure whether the male any phone also play a no, there's also male.
Speaker 2:Male elephants also rule their little. It's not only females.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I will, Because in my family I think the little stings is like like I will take the calls but then somehow, when I know if I ever made mistake, and then I can fall back on Thomas as an elephant. So he will be there to support our family. Well, for the two kids, I think there's still two little monkeys jumping up and down and fight all the time and then, but the one when they're apart, they just miss each other. For me, I think myself is more like ox.
Speaker 2:Like an ox.
Speaker 4:Like who is working very hard but just not working hard and don't really know the fun part yet or don't have a big vision. So that's.
Speaker 2:Somewhere like the head down, kind of yeah always working, like working, working all the time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I will put myself as an ox at the moment.
Speaker 2:Love you.
Speaker 1:Animal for our family? Yeah, I think for you is the dog. I think very caring is a dog. What's a very caring animal? Caring about everyone in the family, making sure everyone has food, everyone is happy, everyone is healthy, kind of keeping everything together.
Speaker 2:Not really a dog Not really your microphone. Not really a dog.
Speaker 1:What is it? What animal does that? You look at me not happy with this description. Okay, no, what, what, what I mean?
Speaker 2:I mean dog is like the very obedient. But okay, protective part, yes, for sure.
Speaker 1:Like the protective caretaker Hmm.
Speaker 4:Maybe also a little bit Elephant right, hmm, could be elephant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but Svaniya is also an elephant.
Speaker 1:No, I think.
Speaker 2:I'm more Svaniya actually, for me is the wolf. She's the wolf. She's the pack leader. She's. She can be very aggressive when she needs to be aggressive, right, but also very caring when she needs to be caring right. Always on the attack the wolf is like, but she's always very Svaniya, is aware of everything Kind of like a wolf right that the pack wolf leader is always kind of aware of what's going on in the surrounding and any little noise or something she's going to automatically think it's danger.
Speaker 1:That's also why I'm worried all the time, which is not good.
Speaker 2:I actually see myself more myself as the gorilla, kind of like, yeah, or like a panda where I can be super aggressive, or gorilla where, but I'm also or even like a bear I actually a bear would be more like it Very caring about their, the little ones and the, but also very aggressive when I need to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I don't. I don't. Not every single noise will attract my attention, because I know that some noise don't need my attention. I'm very focused on what needs the attention and some Svaniya it's all noises need attention. I don't waste my energy on all of the like you know, not every single noise, not everything needs my attention 100%, whereas Svaniya she's like, no, every single little thing is going to need it, and then she can easily become very aggressive, very wolf-like, right, Because she just, I guess her energy sometimes is overspent.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. She's very aware of very very afraid she can see danger like very foul. I don't know, because I feel my head always two steps further already you know, I think it's more like five two is on.
Speaker 2:Svaniya level I think it's on a normal level would be more five.
Speaker 1:So, and for Munanui, I think he is.
Speaker 2:Munanui for me is a little bit like an owl.
Speaker 1:No, for me more also a dog, a cat, I think. Actually he needs a lot of love, so that would more indicate he's a dog. He needs lots of love, cuddling, lots of attention. But I think yeah. Remains to be seen. To be honest, I think yeah.
Speaker 2:For me, I see him more as the owl, because he's very attentive to what's going on in his surrounding and he doesn't jump into things very very fast. He will look at everything from afar, just like an owl kind of thing, and then when he knows what's going on, then he will enter the realm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he also loves, I think, the knowledge part. He just wants to know what everything is, what's going on, what is this? Why is it doing this?
Speaker 1:Let's see what will come out of it, but I think it's kind of also ever developing.
Speaker 4:Yeah because at certain stage of their life then it's like probably our own modern data.
Speaker 2:Was there a switch? Did you like? Now that you look at your kids much older, do you think that when they were younger they were different or they were the same?
Speaker 3:Definitely. I think it's changed and also from yourself, the role, and also will be changed.
Speaker 1:Develop with the time, right yeah exactly. Yeah, I mean we felt just from the beginning, right Before I went back to work, after I went back to work, I think changes of circumstances also will change the role probably.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's. How about it's interesting that how you saw them as a child or how they were, is very different. It's very different from now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. Actually you could also like ask the children next time during the another session is what do they see their parents and anyone.
Speaker 2:This is a very interesting thing.
Speaker 1:We're having a little kid coming. Come by, come by somewhere. What do you want? A phone, a phone, okay.
Speaker 3:I see actually To read the homework that I see.
Speaker 1:That.
Speaker 3:I see that you just tapped and now yeah.
Speaker 1:You need to write it down. Okay, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2:I think the finishing is what are your hopes and dreams for your children?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What is it?
Speaker 4:You want to start? Yeah, I think for my kids at the moment. I just want them to grow healthy and happy. Yeah well, those are the two easy words, but after going through all the ups and downs through the life, then you think this is an ultimate things you want your children or your loved ones to achieve in their life. Yeah, exactly the same actually.
Speaker 3:I have the same answer, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the crazy part, right. We just want our kids to be happy and healthy, right that's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Speaker 4:However, juan, you are right, how many enrichment classes? You send your kids to Eventually just want them to be healthy and happy.
Speaker 2:Right, just healthy and happy with all the drone and Mafa that goes with it.
Speaker 3:That's all what you need. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's how we're going to finish our podcast and I hope everybody is healthy and happy.
Speaker 1:And actually, yeah, it applies to us as well. Right, we should also just be healthy, and happy. Yeah, most important for everyone.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Guys, thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. It was super nice.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming to Dubai.
Speaker 4:I think, thank you for having us Exactly.
Speaker 2:I think Qingqing's fear of not knowing what to say was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see easy, huh, exactly, yeah, very easy.
Speaker 4:Actually I could have a London session, you better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for every time reunion, maybe Exactly.
Speaker 2:Every yearly renewed podcast, exactly. This one episode. Thank you so much, guys, again.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I love you, my honey bunny.
Speaker 2:I hope you're healthy. I know you're healthy. I hope you're happy, though.
Speaker 1:I'm also happy.
Speaker 2:Are you happy? Yeah, okay, okay, me too.
Speaker 1:Easy, easy.