The2amClub
Welcome to The Two A.M. Club, where we have open and diverse conversations about parenting and partnerships across different cultures. Join us on an amazing journey as we explore the joys and challenges of raising children through the stories of parents from around the world.
Our collection of stories represents a tapestry of cultures and personal experiences. We celebrate our differences and the love we share for our children. While everyone's parenting journey is unique, we find common ground in the experiences that connect us.
Whether you're a new parent, experienced, or simply curious about raising children, The Two A.M. Club has something for you. Expect heartwarming stories, practical advice, and thought-provoking discussions. Our goal is to inspire, support, and connect with parents and partners worldwide.
At The Two A.M. Club, we value open-mindedness, diversity, and honesty. We create a community that embraces the universal journey of parenthood, where love knows no limits. Join us today and be part of a welcoming and supportive community of parents and partners.
We believe that parenthood is a journey filled with joy, challenges, and countless stories that deserve to be shared and in doing so we are collecting stories from parents about their experiences in navigating the intricate paths of parenting and partnership. We understand that parenthood isn't solely about raising children; it's also about nurturing and sustaining strong relationships with our partners.
Our aim is to weave a rich tapestry of stories that celebrate the beautiful, messy, and wonderful world of parenting and partnership. Your stories have the power to inspire and guide others on their path to growth and fulfillment. We are eager to share the triumphs, struggles, and lessons learned along the way. Whether you're seasoned parents or just embarking on this remarkable journey, we invite you to listen to the diverse experiences, insights, and advice that these stories hold.
Join us as we embark on this voyage, hand in hand, as parents and partners. Welcome to our discussioncast, where we embark on an honest and unfiltered journey through parenthood and partnership. As everyday individuals, we deeply empathize with the triumphs and challenges that come with these roles, just like many of you. Each episode of our show explores a wide range of topics and features special guests, offering a glimpse into the diverse experiences and perspectives within our global community. Despite our differences, we all share a common objective: navigating these challenges and joys in our own unique way.
The2amClub
Building Community When Society Pushes Independence
In this episode, we explore one of life’s most consequential decisions: choosing the right partner. For women especially, careers often hinge not just on personal ambition or talent, but on whether the person beside them is truly willing to share responsibility at home. It’s a subject rarely spoken about openly, yet it shapes entire futures.
We reflect on how confidence and a strong sense of identity beyond work make it possible to step into unconventional roles without losing yourself. Modern family life often means both partners are working, yet one—still most often the woman—carries the heavier weight of childcare and emotional labor. We ask: what happens when responsibility is genuinely balanced, when energy is distributed fairly, and when a couple chooses intention over tradition?
Along the way, we touch on what real stability means for a child—it’s less about staying rooted in one place and more about consistency in parenting. We talk about how moving across countries and encountering different educational systems can build resilience, and why modern Western societies have lost many of the natural community connections that once held families together.
This episode also dives into the importance of communication before children arrive, of being honest about long-term roles, and of recognizing that not everyone has the same energy reserves. Finally, we talk about the circle of people around us—why it matters to be lifted up rather than drained, and how the right community can make the difference between simply surviving and truly thriving.
hello and welcome to our podcast, the 2am club.
Speaker 2:The honey bunnies. How you doing, my love? I'm very good another episode and you are smiling and happy yeah, period is gone, yay for me and munanui good morning, my everything.
Speaker 1:How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing perfect I'm doing really good. I'm happy when I knewui is back in the Kita. Oh my God. Three weeks holiday and what did you say? I'm finally working.
Speaker 1:Well, three weeks of overtime for my honey bunny, how does that feel? Much better, much better that he's back in the Doing that in 21 years, just saying.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy. It was really nice the three weeks holiday with munanui and being with him all the time. But I'm also so happy.
Speaker 1:He's in the kindergarten and it's his first week at the kindergarten and everything is going super great, apart from the little hiccup where he kind of walked off into the playground at three o'clock in the afternoon yep, first day in the kindergarten and we are called into the headmaster's office that he gets from me no, but he didn't do anything wrong. So so what happened there? Apparently, um, you know now it's the same location where he's going, but it's um, just a different room, so he's. He's upstairs now with the big kids. In the kindergarten there is kids from three to six years old.
Speaker 2:How many kids in total now?
Speaker 1:I think now it's 25 in the group, so it's three teachers, 25 kids, and before in the nursery it was 10 kids with two teachers. So yeah, definitely now the ratio is changing and of course there's also much bigger kids, and so apparently what happened is that for lunch or for snack? I'm not 100% sure.
Speaker 2:No, it was in the afternoon, the afternoon snack.
Speaker 1:They went downstairs, for you know, the kids have a snack at 3 pm and usually then after the snack everyone goes back upstairs. But apparently Munanui thought that he saw papa went outside into the garden.
Speaker 2:I mean good for that guy who looks like me. I just want to say good looking guy only my honey bunny would say that yeah.
Speaker 1:So apparently he went outside, he went up to the garden door and was crying and no one realized and um, until a mom arrived that was there, that arrived to pick up a kid, and then she brought one and we in and you know she was quite upset, um, yeah, so, yeah, I mean that happened. To be honest, I think we are the type of parents were like, okay, a bit concerning, but ah, also happens right, I mean nothing happened at the end.
Speaker 1:At the end, so he didn't really tell in the evening, he just told me that he cried and I asked him why did you cry? He's like oh, because I thought papa would come. And I mean, obviously papa came 50 minutes later.
Speaker 2:So and we told him papa is coming every day but the next day, right, we told him he can't do that again, you can't go outside on your own. And he actually went back to when he went to the kindergarten. He told the teacher at three I cannot go outside alone, I need to go and wait when Papa come and pick me up. And even the teacher was surprised on how fast he yeah yeah, yeah, he's wow.
Speaker 1:And he felt so bad about it as well because I mean we didn't. I mean scold him, right, it's not, was not. Nothing was his fault. We just told him he cannot go outside, into the garden alone, and always a teacher has to be there or a parent or a parent, exactly.
Speaker 1:so, yeah, and then he hugged me and he was a bit sad and I think he remembered that that was a bit of a scary moment, but yeah, then he said Munanui will not go outside alone again. So he just repeated that. So that's where I'm very confident. But this has always been like this, right, when we told him something, don't touch this. I remember our art stuff. I mean we told him the Daruma door, don't touch it. He never touched it.
Speaker 2:Adults are like dogs. You can train them. Adults, babies, adults, everybody can be trained. That's true. And so I think a lot of parents, they think that they can't. No, you can just tell your kid, don't do that, and they're not going to do it. Yeah, they might do it behind your back later on, but that's you. But that was that was really. It was a good start of the week actually, and helen's mom and uh the dad benny and uh judith they also asked me oh, how's moon anyway doing in the first, and I was like, yeah, everything seems fine, and for helen also yeah everything's perfectly fine right now.
Speaker 2:They haven't cried. He's now one hour longer in the, so he's from 8, 30 or even eight o'clock. We can bring him until four o'clock in the afternoon and papa is happy yeah, I'm happy because now I can do all my mountains of laundry in peace.
Speaker 1:In peace.
Speaker 2:That's the add-on in peace, exactly, but this week's podcast is not about that. I mean, that's just a little side note.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's just what happened. No, I wanted to talk about so maybe starting the other way around. I joined a really nice event at work, so an inspiring executive from our company joined here women support group. I don't know what we say support group, it's called step up and, yeah, it's all about women supporting each other. And one topic that came up that was actually shared by that executive was that one of the most important decisions in your life that you make is choosing your partner, and the main reason what she said is the time when women have children is the time that usually break your career. It sounds very drastic now. I'm was thinking, should I use the word break?
Speaker 2:but but it is, but it is actually. It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you can't really tiptoe around it it's not, it really does break yeah, it does break its careers and the way it doesn't is by choosing the right partner, and so I was sharing that we live okay. It's a model that only, I think, 2% of families, 2 or 4% of families live in Germany, where you are the stay-at-home husband and father, you take care full time of our boy, of our household household, of anything really that's happening of you of me exactly very important and you're not a household appliance and um I wish I could turn you off sometimes and I work full-time, and the reason why I wanted to talk about it because actually, you know, I received a lot of questions and I think it's still quite unusual and in the room, you know, there were a lot of young women.
Speaker 1:I think most of them weren't married, so they're not at that stage yet. And, yeah, sometimes I think, as as more mature women like we are, you know, we kind of went through that we understand really the importance behind that, because you have no idea what happens when your child arrives. This is just, you just can't plan, plan it, it's, it's just a hurricane arriving, yeah and and um, yeah, you can, you, yeah, and. And that was what I was thinking. It could be interesting to share a bit how we got there, how do we make that work and why does it work.
Speaker 2:How we got there. I mean, it's very simple. You made more money than me and your company started moving us around and I don't identify myself to work. It's not I am me. I'm not my job. I'm not what I wear, I'm not who you know, I'm just who I am and I think that's my confidence part. I don't, you know, I really believe in that whole.
Speaker 2:There's a saying that I really love. You know, when you walk by a cemetery, right, um, when you walk by a cemetery, when you read the tombstones, those headstones, none of it says oh, ceo of so-and-so. Or the guy who owns 40 apartments, or you know it says mom, dad, brother, sister, child. That's what it says. And at the end of the day, that's really all that matters, not your job, not what kind of car you drive, not what kind of clothing you wear. And it goes back to the last podcast we talked about, right, about children wanting to spend Christmas with you. But for me it wasn't like when you told me hey, the company is moving us to Japan. I got a great offer to be the head of Japan. Would you want to like? Why would I want to stop your career from moving forward? To continue mine like no, and it just just naturally happened. It was. And then we talked about it. You know that was also a very open conversation we had and you said, okay, I'll take care of us and you will do everything else.
Speaker 1:And I was like, okay, fine, no problem whatsoever and I think that's kind of key key, key to the success was that you don't need your job to feel valued. And I think that then what helped right for you to make that step? Because, like, okay, yeah, great, why not? Like? And for me, I always knew I wanted to have my own money, I wanted to, you know, be able to feed myself, and I didn't need a man to take care of that. And I always thought, and then I thought, hey, if it's enough for two, perfect, why not?
Speaker 2:I have to say there was another part behind it also because, you know, I'm a minority. I mean, I'm like even the super minority, because Tahitians there's only like 200,000 in the world, and then half American, belgian, tahitian it's even less okay. And the thing is and I also know for you the battle that you're fighting right, and I was like you know what, if I can support her and push her to become the best version of an example that you will not follow, then of course, and you know the perfect example how you do that.
Speaker 1:When there was this event on Tuesday evening, this was also the first day of kindergarten for Munanui and I knew that it would mean me joining. I will not be able to pick him up Okay, normally I don't pick him up but also not to see him in the evening and not be able to ask him hey, how was your first day? And of course that was on my mind. But you said, svenja, you go to this event and if there's drinks after that event, please go. And exactly the situation happened and if there's drinks after that event, please go. And exactly this situation happened. So after the event, which lasted till, I think, 8.30 pm, something like this, after the event, the round said hey, we're going for drinks there and there, and if you would have not told me that, I would have gone home.
Speaker 1:A hundred fifty percent.
Speaker 2:I'm always right, right, right, yeah, I have it on camera.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I take it back no, but it's, it's normal.
Speaker 2:Like you put the bread on the table, I cook the bread, you, you, you bring the money to make the bread and like there's a lot of it is very difficult because there's a lot of people out there that would be like, well, I need this help for after, blah, blah, blah. No, it's. You know, you doing what you do makes our life possible and me doing what I do makes our life possible, and it's a together work. Yeah, and for me to say, oh no, I don't want you to go for drinks afterwards because you need to come back and help me do this, this and this. No, why would, why, why would someone even say that to me?
Speaker 1:just, it's mind-boggling but I think in 99 of the cases this is. It is.
Speaker 2:And then the person is not confident enough, and then there is something about jealousy Exactly.
Speaker 1:And I think this is really the key right when the two of us met 15 years ago. Wow, that's a long time I know we were both very confident in who we were.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Were You're still very confident?
Speaker 1:Yes, we're still at that point in time. Already, actually, we were in our mid-20s and we're very happy with who we were and I think and somehow it worked together. I mean, for me, I cannot say that the job doesn't identify me 150%. It does. So for me to change my role into your role and for you to change your role, it just wouldn't work right. It just works the way it is because we're very um confident in ourselves and what we do. So we, we were good about it. Yeah, but I think really, the I'm the more normal one in a sense. Right, I think most people identify themselves over work, whereas I was very lucky to meet you who says you know, like I don't need that for my ego. I think ego is actually….
Speaker 2:Ego is the biggest part.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's actually the biggest hurdle right and now it's what I see and this is also not really the right direction. What I'm seeing is so 70 percent of families, young families in Germany. Their concept is the husband works full-time and the wife reduces her hours to 50 to 70 percent. What happens here? So she reduces, maybe then she works 25 hours, something like this yeah, 25, 30 hours. She goes home, she does all the care work at home and on top that job, so she doesn't need to quit completely.
Speaker 1:But you know, this is like the topic of you can't have it all. So somehow now there is pressure in the society that staying at home fully might be even criticized for a woman. Yeah, because they are told no, no, you need to keep your career. You shouldn't. But the problem is they don't have husbands that are willing to give anything up. Usually they earn more and even if they don't, by the way, even if they don't, it's still. It's that concept and I think that's really this ego topic and no one willing to give in. Women now feeling this pressure oh, I also need to keep working, and maybe that's not only an ego topic but also a financial. I'm not saying there's, I mean probably the majority of couples where both work really they have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, we also know a lot in our circles where both work, where they don't have to. But looking at the numbers, probably the majority really have to, right, but I think it's really about the ego here as well. Yeah, I mean, are you willing to give something up to gain something different? I think this is the part right.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a bit what I see.
Speaker 1:A lot. It's a lot what I see with parents I've they. They all look so burdened somehow and they all look so and, yes, it's super stressy, but there is so much gain as well. And that sounds now very cheesy, right, but it is you sound like one of those.
Speaker 2:2 am instagram posts white women that are like I don't understand why some parents they don't really a little bit right there, but I understand a little bit, just a little but it's true yeah, and I, I a thousand percent agree with you. The only difference is is those people on instagram would never say that it's horrible, they would just be it's the best thing ever.
Speaker 1:No, that's not true. I think important is because there's another topic that I've realized when I speak to couples that have children you have to align, before you have children, on how you will separate the different topics who will work, who will take care of the kid, etc. Pp. Because both working full-time and having a kid on the side, especially in the german context, because here child care is, yeah, not as available as maybe in other countries, but even in other countries it's still better here than than other countries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, and even then I mean I think key is for happiness of the whole concept.
Speaker 1:Let's not just say practicality, but really happiness that you are confident and happy with your role you will take.
Speaker 2:And you should talk about not just the first year or the first month where there is a maternity leave, but you should also talk about what happens after but we also know that this is really a problem with a lot of couples is that they don't communicate as openly as we do about a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, this is always something where new parents will come and talk to me and ask me questions about what can I do to prepare for the coming of my baby. And I think, like no one openly talks about what could happen if, in the worst case scenario, right about the the whole, you got to tell the doctor well, save my wife and not my kid. All of these kinds of discussions parents really don't want to have. They want to have more of the what are we going to paint the room and what kind of chair are we going to get? And you know it's, it's, and I can understand. They want to have a positive vibe with the whole birthing and stuff like that and they don't want the negativity to come inside. But and lack of communication is one of the biggest problems. I think in these situations no one wants to talk about these tough questions before. I think they talk about it after the second child, but that first child, no one really does it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, I think this tough communication and also I think here's a lot of stigma on both sides. Right, the man needs to provide for the family and the wife needs to nurse the children, you know.
Speaker 2:The wife nurses the family and the husband provides for the family.
Speaker 1:Exactly and I think.
Speaker 2:I mean we kind of do that, but just in another. Which is funny, right, we're traditional Actually we would be called traditionalists, especially with me making bread on a Sunday morning and stuff like that, you know, and doing teas and making jams. I mean, I'm literally that Instagram post of that woman wearing, you know, these big flower dress that were dyed with natural dyes and making bread and stuff like that, but in a totally different context. Right, just a flip side. But um, yeah, it's, it really is.
Speaker 1:It's a croissant good sorry, just having my breakfast on the side. Yeah, I think this topic of choose your right partner before having kids is so important, especially for women.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's only choose your right partner. It's also be open with your partner and somehow we need to step away from ego.
Speaker 1:I feel ego destroys so many things. I mean, when I look at all these you know, weird public figures let me call them male public figures I have to say there's also female ones. I'm sorry, but on donald trump's side.
Speaker 2:You see, the, the.
Speaker 1:I mean come on the amount of yeah, there is, there is figures on there but you know, there's also a study when there's 30 of women in a room, men already feel they are the majority. So also learned that on tuesday.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, so don't start with that, you'll lose that fight it's I never said it was a majority, but what I'm saying is there's, but there's no need to mention that, because it is mostly male public figures that are a bit crazy and it's mostly connected with ego.
Speaker 1:Yes, we all have an ego, um, and I think that's what needs to be talked about when having kids, because I think it's a lot about putting that aside, and I mean remember that first maldives holiday, where I was yes, my ego hit in because I was all about, oh, there's a yoga class every morning at 8 am and I didn't manage to go to one.
Speaker 1:Why? Because I was just too tired, because, boy not sleeping through the night I think he was one and a half by then. So I mean that just um, oh, that reminds me of last night. Um, yeah, so this is this is uh, yeah, and, and what is that? Is that ego?
Speaker 2:yeah, yes, right, because you have a plan and you want to, you want to do the plan, you want to execute the plan, and then when it doesn't happen, you know, then you get angry.
Speaker 1:Because you cannot do the things you wanted to do for yourself, right?
Speaker 2:You do have much more of a male concept. Yeah, you know, I have much more of the female, as they would call it the more patient and everybody has a plan until you get hit in the mouth.
Speaker 1:I mean, you had your D&D thingy right, I had my D&D. You had also your things where you said I really want to keep on doing that, Of course, of course.
Speaker 2:I also had it and that's normal. Yeah, we all have that thing. Yeah, but I've also dropped that. It's not really yeah same.
Speaker 1:I also have dropped that and and I think that's where really, and now that might sound like the but, but I really, it's really the truth that I enjoy the ride so much more now and that I really tell myself, okay, I mean, like you say, right, this will not be happening for too much longer, because we already see friends that have a bit of older kids and they spend their day in their room alone without the parents it's not the destination that counts exactly, it's a drive yeah, it's the the whole.
Speaker 2:You just just let go of the wheel and just let it ride. That's the only thing. Exactly that's really what it is. It's the same like when you came to me that one day and you said, hey, hey, maybe we should have a baby. And what did I tell you All right, let's do it right now. And I was like you just let go of the wheel and you just do it. My whole life has been let go of the wheel and see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Can you say that again for the video.
Speaker 2:I said, my whole life has been just letting go of the wheel and just see where it goes. I don't even know if I have a wheel in my car. Sometimes I feel it's just you just ride it out, because that's what life is all about, right?
Speaker 1:You know, because now we talked about women have to choose their right partner.
Speaker 2:Men also. Exactly, what do you think about that actually talked about.
Speaker 1:women have to choose their right partner, men also. Exactly how about you? What do you think about that actually? How does that apply to men? What should they?
Speaker 2:everyone needs. So you also need to find somebody who supports you. You support me and the way I feel, in the way I see my life. You know there's not a lot of women that would be like, well, I like you as a man who just like all right, whatever, let's just see where it goes. You know, I jump into things. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't work, but at least I tried. You know I don't like to plan things. I do like I do plan more things now sorry but uh, yes, it's important to choose your right partner.
Speaker 2:Whether you're a man or woman, it doesn't matter, because that's the person you want to spend your life with and maybe you want to have a kid with, doesn't, yeah, but even without the kid, you got to choose your right partner. It's the same for friends, it's the same for your job, it's the same for what you eat or what you drink yeah choose your right beer. I love german bavarian beer. I don't like northern german beer.
Speaker 1:You know, there was another interesting discussion actually that we had that night. Um, it was about would we still move countries even having a kid? And we started uh thousand percent yeah, exactly that was also my answer. But that also got very interesting because a lot of people said, oh, no, but it will be so bad for the kids to be taken out of their environment the anchor, oh the anchor.
Speaker 2:You need to have an anchor. Our anchor is a 40-foot container.
Speaker 1:And you know.
Speaker 2:And it's us.
Speaker 1:And I mean honestly, when we look at our personalities or our life, probably most of it came out of the difficult situations, and I mean as much as I understand the protectiveness of parents nowadays, and obviously we do the same. We don't want anything bad to happen to Munanui, but at the end of the day, this is what forms our characters. And I was, you know, I was like I remember I remember change as something super positive, because as a kid I mean it just moved villages. Okay, I was 10 years, we moved from the first village to the second village, but from one day to the other actually had nothing to do with my friends before anymore, because I went to a new school, I met new people and I was really welcomed super nicely. So for me it was a really nice experience and that lasted till today.
Speaker 1:So for me, and then I remember, you know, with the years and years you change schools and so on and so forth, and I was always happy and I was always mostly the only one. You know all the others were like, oh, we like the school, why are we changing? And I was always embracing it and I was like, hey, cool, the new school, oh, we can discover a new building, new teachers. You know we learn something new and until today that actually, yeah, I'm so curious about change, yeah, and, and so I'm like, okay, maybe in the first instance it's not nice for the kid and you know, depending on the age of the kid, they might don't want to do it. But at the end of the day, changing, moving, putting them in new situations, that builds their character for the future. And if we take all of that away with this helicoptering, then we are raising those wobbly whoops, Stability.
Speaker 2:Remember when we started, like right after we had Monanui and okay, even before we had Monanui, people asked us this question are you going to Stable parents or a stable home? And for me, stable parents is the most important. You can be the most unstable parents in a concrete house and have fucked up kids and be unstable in the fact that you move all the time, but be very stable as you, who you are as a person and as a parent, and have great kids yeah, and for me, stability, and I understand the stability part.
Speaker 2:But the thing is people see stability as only being a physical stability in the same village, in the same house, the same car, whatever. But for me, what I see is the stability in who we are as people and then who we are as parents. That's where true stability is for me. So yes, a thousand percent I would, of course, and actually for me, I really would like to move again in a couple years because I also want Munanui to see that the school systems are different around the world.
Speaker 2:I was lucky enough that I grew up in America, in Tahiti. I saw two different. I not only saw, I grew up in two different educational systems, two very different the French one, which was work for the government or work for a big company, be safe, be stable. Or the american one, which is you know, make your own company, don't go to school for too long. You know, you got to be confident, you got to do this, public speaking, whatnot, and both have good sides and bad sides. Yeah, the american side is really good for kids that are like that, but really bad for kids who aren't. And then the european one, the french one is really good for kids that are like that and really bad for other entrepreneurial type people, but this, I think, is shifting in europe yeah yeah, and then you go to asia.
Speaker 2:That's a totally different way of education, right? And I think for me is I would like Munanui to be able to go to those different school systems and see that things are different around the world. Not everybody is doing it the same way. And there is no right way. There is no wrong way. There's just a multitude of different ways to get to the same point yeah, I 100 agree.
Speaker 1:I think growing up in different systems countries is wow, such an enrichment. It's like giving him different languages. Right now we're raising him in three languages. Honestly, I mean, that's a great gift from us that we give to him and that's why diversity is so important.
Speaker 2:Diversity is the most important thing, I think, for the future, because it teaches and and I think this is the problem with the world today everyone thinks that their way is the only way no, no, my way is the right way. Everybody else's way is shit. I, I'm sorry, that's not true. And it's the same for parenting. I really believe that there's so many parents out there that are like no, I only do Montessori, I only do positive parenting.
Speaker 1:Or I only do whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're stuck in these ways and they cannot fathom that it can be different. And that it can be correct, and that it can be correct that it can be right.
Speaker 1:And actually being flexible is such a key component being a parent, you know, because you don't know.
Speaker 2:And not only as a parent, as an adult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I think this will be the key differentiator looking into the future. And I think I mean, we see, and that's probably really one of the key challenges in the world, is this very fast oopsie, this very fast change that we see and the volatility you know, I mean we have COVID, then there's war, then there is, you know, we have Ukraine war, then we have Palestine war. We have, you know, things are just like happening so quickly where your mind really needs to be able to handle all of that, and I think a lot of people cannot because they have not. Yeah, because I mean they want to brought up. It was different in the past. You know, you didn't even maybe things happened, but you just didn't know about it. Not, yeah, because I mean they were not brought up. It was different in the past. On it, you know, you didn't even maybe things happened, but you just didn't know about it. There was not the information availability as we have it today, and I think being flexible in your mind will help you to navigate these very stormy waters we are in and I don't believe that they will calm down anytime soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this world is so unpredictable, you know. I remember in the past, in interviews, you would ask people hey, where do you see yourself in 10 years? I mean, honestly, I think this question, if someone would ask me that today, I would I mean, I would just say that's the most dubious question you can ask me. I mean this is just ridiculous. Yeah, not about not having a path and not having a goal, but it's just ridiculous. Yeah, not about not having a path and not having a goal, but like 10 years seems to be miles away. At 10 years, today is completely different compared to in the past, where basically nothing happened in 10 years.
Speaker 1:So, um, but, but I think that's also that we need to consider when we raise our kids. They need to be able to navigate those volatile waters and I think that we're not doing that right. We are not equipping them for this by being helicoptering right or by helicoptering them and by taking away all the bad things. You know. I mean, yeah, of course, our parents made mistakes or our grandparents made mistakes when raising us, but I mean turning it completely around, taking away all the harm and all the hardship, um, I think, just um is is uh, yeah, also, it's not going to help them for the future. It's not going to help them. It's, it's the same, you know like oh, now I I see he's tired, maybe I help him clean up his room. It's not going to help him clean up his room.
Speaker 2:It's not going to help him Maybe in the moment, but it's not going to help him. It's going to help you in the moment because you want it to be done very fast, Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's selfish right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I 100% agree with you. I really agree with you on all those things and I really believe that the diversity is so important. Yeah, and diversity, toughness it's the only way to survive in today's world. Yeah, being stuck in your ways or that's not going to do anything, it's not. We are where we are today because we are diverse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you and me, yeah no we're not afraid to move, we're not afraid of change. We thrive and change and I think it's it's because we have been tossed around as kids so much, yeah, and we learn to adapt, and somewhere I also think that we also were forced to see the positive in those moments yeah, maybe because it was. Either we get depressed about it or we embrace it and move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I always said that. Right, like me being small, I was always the smallest in class, so of course, people would pick on me. Yeah, I mean, that's what kids do, okay, so either I can stand in the corner and cry about it or I laugh about it and pretend I also find it funny, or, you know, I mean it's the way you react to those situations that will help you handle it. Yeah, and yeah, I didn't let myself get pushed into this corner, right, I just got stronger and was more feisty, and yeah, I think it's, but it is those situations that we also need to let happen. Yeah, the kids have to go through this. So I also see nowadays, parents immediately jump in when, when there's a no, kids need to learn how to, um, how to act in conflicts. Like, how are they gonna learn because conflicts happen all the time? Yeah, and they need to learn how to navigate through that as well, and it's okay to fight yes that's also a thing like it's okay to fight, we fight.
Speaker 1:I mean, if people ask, I mean you know we're we fight. We fight in front of people at their house and they get a little bit what's going on here.
Speaker 2:That wasn't a fight no, that was not a fight, that was a cute disagreement they thought it was a fight, which is really weird.
Speaker 1:Exactly right they were like, oh, what's with this couple? But but I think that's also us right. I mean, and again coming back to that open communication, open and confidence.
Speaker 2:I think one of the biggest problem actually I was thinking about that this morning I was thinking about why are we where we are today? One of the reasons right, there's many reasons, yeah, but I was thinking about I think one of the biggest problems is people don't know what their identity is anymore, because they identify with their job or whatever like that right and they start losing those things and the only thing that they can grasp is where they were brought up or what religion they are. You know, that's that last thing that they can hold on to as an anchor, because they're not confident as who they are, as a human. You know, that's like one of the questions I really hate when people ask me how are you from? From fucking earth, like the same, like you came out of my mom's vagina and I'm here like does it matter where I'm from?
Speaker 1:ah, but, but I also ask, I'm just interested.
Speaker 2:No, no, but I know.
Speaker 1:But what I mean is I mean when you told me, not that I knew where Tahiti was, but what I meant more was this this need to belong. Yeah, I know what you mean, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's this. They have this identity crisis where they feel that their identity is being taken away, and then they grasp at whatever is last, whatever they have left.
Speaker 1:But I think this also and we talked about this as well is also because of the change of how we interact within society. Right, that we're like it's down to a couple usually, and then you know, know, there's no more family, no more village, nor society. I don't know there's no more community. No, exactly that was the word I was looking for. There's no more community, and yeah, so people try to grab. You know, grasp to others, like country, religion, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:But they grasp to what's closest to them. Yeah, and that's the sad part yeah and it goes for everybody.
Speaker 2:yeah, because I know tahitian people that moved to dubai and you would enter their house and it was like tahiti threw up all over their wall it's tahitian music, tahitian flags, tahitian food, tahitian. Everything was tahitian food, tahitian clothes, everything was Tahitian. And I'm like God, why did you even move from Tahiti? But their identity was they moved to another country. They didn't feel they belonged and then they grasped whatever they could that was nearest that they felt comfortable with, and it was that identity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's the same what we saw right when we moved throughout the world. People would usually connect with people from their home countries and we never did that so funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but our parents were also not like that. My father was an immigrant in the United States and then he told me you're just American by passport. You are a person of the world.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I was not taught that. I believe I mean.
Speaker 2:Your father was. I mean, he traveled the world.
Speaker 1:He also traveled and that was definitely you know and I think there was something in there that kind of.
Speaker 2:He wasn't the.
Speaker 1:The super nationalist didn't like the football games actually, I remember we had the american flag in one of the rooms I think it was my brother's room, actually. Um, yeah, I don't know. Um, yeah, identity, I don't know why, for me that's really not important, why I feel so good with myself. You know, I'm just'm just me, I don't. You know. Yes, I do have a German passport, but I, you know also, when I lived abroad, it was never, I never missed the country. Of course, I missed certain people.
Speaker 2:What you did miss was Weidesbergis.
Speaker 1:That was. The only thing that I missed food-wise was the Weidesbergis that we only have between May and June. But I mean, yeah, I just really, I, I really genuinely don't have that like I didn't feel I need to connect with germans to feel more secure. I needed to connect with people, that for sure. Yeah, so I build up a network and I build up friendships and so on. But yeah, it was, it was just um.
Speaker 1:They were from all over the place and you were the same. But the funny thing is, during our time living abroad we did not meet a lot of people for whom it was that case. So usually when we met people from, let's say, the us, they were usually surrounded by people from the us. When people from scotland, then we went to scottish events so that was quite interesting.
Speaker 2:No matter where they were from and that's the craziest thing, right it doesn't matter the race or the religion, they all stick within themselves and it goes back. It circles back into picking the right partner, because you and me are the same like that, but our parents are also the same like that too.
Speaker 1:Especially on our dad's side, I do believe, yeah, I think our moms as well. We have very strong moms with a very open mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah and you had to be open and honestly very smart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think both of them are very smart. Um yeah, so so tell me more about this event okay, yeah, so the one of the topics right choose your right partner and and yeah, that we we discussed what about her partner I would be interested in?
Speaker 2:she didn't share also.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't share it here if she would have shared yeah, it's, it's supposed to stay where it was, um, but yeah, we didn't talk about that, um, what else? I think another big topic that is important to be surrounded by people that lift you up. And I think again yeah, I mean, that was now more a career view yeah, so surround yourself with people that support you. But in life in general, that you know, that applies, I think, and that's what we also have learned the hard way, right when we've been disappointed quite a bit from people that we met, where we built up friendships and yeah, but at the end of the day, there is no need to hold on to something that was at some point and then just isn't anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's important really to life is too short. And also when it comes to parenting, just being, you know, I think we have to surround ourselves with people that lift us up, that are there for us, that create, together with us, the atmosphere we want to live in. And there it comes then to community building and in work it's, you know, you, and you always say that right, you said, remember, recently you mentioned, I mean, we always talk about networking, but isn't building a community in your private life.
Speaker 2:It's a network. Exactly the thing is. At your office you can't say I build my community, so you say I build my network. But it's exactly the same thing.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:Community is very important. I think living on an island alone is a very different and very lonely way to live. The community is probably, for me, one of the major things that I think parenting lacks in today's world, and I think this is what all parents are looking for and that's why they do this. Oh, I do this type of parenting or I do that type of parenting is they try to find people like-minded so they can build their little communities, you know yeah, very interesting aspect.
Speaker 2:I mean I think in the past, because I'm always thinking, I mean our parents didn't think that much, you know that that question comes to my mind every day when I'm with munanui, when I'm like, oh, should I do something or do I need this? And I'll be like, did people need? This in the past I really do, yeah, and then when, if it's like no, and then I'm like, okay, and did we? Are we worst off without it, or are we?
Speaker 1:better off. Can you give an example?
Speaker 2:What was it? Hmm, ah, I was, uh, what was it? Again, I was talking with the, with the parent, and they were asking if they should buy something and I was thinking about it. I was like, oh, that's actually pretty cool and, uh, I have totally just I forgot what it was, but I I really this really happens, I really think about it, yeah, and that's something. That's a question that really comes to my mind quite a bit while parenting. Did we need it before? Did we have it before, and is life going to be better with or without it? And then I decide whether I will get it or not okay, that's not the purchase purchase decision making not only purchase the um making, it's also when he climbs up a tree or he climbs up somewhere.
Speaker 2:You know I'm gonna think all right, before would they have let him go up the tree? I mean, this was in the beginning. Now I just let him go up the tree and then I just let it happen. Yeah, it's like when we went to the the park the other day. Remember when he was climbing up the the high, the high bridge yeah, yeah, you were behind him and then judith also came, I was like no, no, he, he knows.
Speaker 1:And I was like guys, relax yeah yeah, but coming back to the community part, I mean that one. What you just mean is okay, did we need that, need that? But I mean in terms of community, I think in the past people helped each other a lot more. They supported each other more, you know, because there's this saying it takes a village, and nowadays we are so focused on ourselves so individualist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and yeah, people don't. It's not common to support each other, to help each other. I remember last year, our friends actually they had this appointment that they had to join and they asked me to pick up their son, and they were, so you know. They said thank you so many. It was so unusual actually. Yeah, and of course I did it Like there was no question. I had time. Why not? Yeah, yeah, and of course I did it like there was no question. I had time. Why not? Yeah, help someone else. They had an appointment and they couldn't bring their kid to this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what to do? I mean, um, and I and I think this is similar in the work environment yeah, I mean you need to just surround yourself with people that lift you up. Don't surround yourself with people that just want to be with you because of, yeah, I mean that's also sometimes. I mean I don't surround yourself with people that just want to be with you because of, yeah, I mean that's also sometimes. I mean I don't want to sound arrogant, but I mean we are interesting people. Yeah, we have stories to tell, we're quite loud, you know we're, and, and yes, that also attracts people, right, but, um, not everyone, then will help to lift us up right, and I think that's a lot like to tear us down yeah, exactly, and actually a lot.
Speaker 1:What happens? You know there's jealousy and so on and so forth. So it's with everything, right, if you are the center of attention, I mean there will always be people that criticize it and that will want to tear you down, and I think, with with parenting, this, by the way, will be also similar. Right, if your kid maybe performs a little bit better or whatever it is, yeah, uh, looks a bit better, I don't know competitiveness in parenting.
Speaker 1:I mean, come on, this is yeah, but there is, you can feel it right even we are competitive of course, of course. Yeah, you're happy. Oh, mine can do this already, woo. But I think that it's important in parenting to build your community, find other parents that are like-minded or not like-minded, I mean, they don't need to follow the same approach but that lift you up, okay, that don't tear you down. It's okay to you know, and I actually encourage it, to be together with people that think differently I love.
Speaker 2:What you always say is that it's statistically speaking right, and there was a study that parents that are different on parenting style are much better than two parents that have the exact same exactly parenting style exactly um oh, and by the way, if I may to add here that was also a topic tuesday evening where, um, oh, you get a call honey, I know it's okay but it could be the kita.
Speaker 2:Can you please got it get it Hello, hello, I'm calling from the Ah. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, all right Morning around 10 o'clock. One second, let me check. Wednesday, 10 o'clock. Yes, on the 10th, that's possible. Okay, perfect, okay, then perfect, 10 o'clock. I will save this appointment and the colleague will come and change the path. Okie dokie, thank you so much. Hopefully everything's okay. Okie dokie, hope so too. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye, thank you, bye-bye okay, sorry, I just saw the number and it could have been the kindergarten, but it was the guy that will come to fix our heater right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so back to subject.
Speaker 1:Sorry about that. No, what I wanted to mention is in the concept where the husband takes over the majority of the child care, women also need to learn to let the husband do, and we discussed that.
Speaker 2:And actually because interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1:On this table there was also another woman where she was the main breadwinner and at some point also the husband had to stop working because of, like, it was too much to handle with kids at school and sick, and so on and so forth. Yeah, and she said, uh, this is also, you know, an advice to other women. You have to let your husbands do, yeah, don't you know correct? And and nag, and so on and so forth. You know, like, give them the responsibility and let them do. The kid will survive. They will do it differently, but it's okay because, like we just said, right, doing it differently doesn't mean I was the wife in that case yes, you're right when in the beginning, when I would tell you not to do it like this and I would do it like that.
Speaker 1:But I mean, and this is, also a bit at the playground right when he's like.
Speaker 2:The thing is, I'm not that much with him on the playground so I cannot judge his capability that well exactly yeah, so I actually don't know what he can do because you have been to this playground already 300 times, you know and I don't want to nag you about it, I just want to tell you watch and you'll see, you'll be impressed yeah, but I think the community part, this is a really important part. I think, um, I really want to get back to that because this is something that we have talked about with other people right, and I think the important part about the community, coming from a tahiti is not a third world country, but where it feels like a bit.
Speaker 2:It's quite rich, yeah, um, but we still have an islander mentality. And when you go to china, which is not a third world country anymore, even though they stay that way, so they get financial benefits, but anyways, that's another subject when you go to these countries where they still have communities, because of the fact that you have to have your neighbor to help and this is always what I say about Germany and the West, it's not only Germany, it's really this Western mentality of independence, and it's because the society you were brought up with is so rich that you don't need neighbors to help you anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't need it anymore, and that actually has a negative effect on the community.
Speaker 2:There's a positive effect of it, but there's always going to be a negative effect, and that negative effect is there is no more community. The community is broken.
Speaker 1:No, can you turn that?
Speaker 2:back on why why?
Speaker 1:sought to save electricity really yeah okay, the the.
Speaker 2:The fact of the matter is, when you're so rich that you don't need help from your neighbors anymore, then you lose all of that.
Speaker 1:But where I was brought up, you needed help from your neighbors and I mean we also said that that was quite prominent when I moved to China back in 2010 and I received help from all of my colleagues with everything. I mean they helped me move into my place. They helped me. I mean I and I needed that help because I was, I mean, I didn't speak Chinese and I had no idea what I'm doing. So and I received that help and it was natural to them and this was really amazing so I could connect with my colleagues and friends so easily.
Speaker 2:Difficulties bring people together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. Easiness just breaks everyone apart 100%, because then three years later, three and a half years later, we moved to Japan, a lot more developed. You know, you just go and buy a train ticket, you don't need friends or friends of friends to help you arrange it, and so on and so forth. Absolutely no community, no connection.
Speaker 2:And then we moved to Hong Kong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Something in the middle I would say.
Speaker 2:It was something in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then yeah, Germany. And then Germany, similar to Japanapan right and, I think, handwritten notes from the neighbors to tell us we filled up the trash too much, we didn't separate the trash correctly, or whatever it is by the way, on tuesday I also heard that story from an indian colleague who received the note that she should um take out the air from the milk cartons, you know, and make that milk carton really small before she puts it into the trash.
Speaker 2:Some people really have a lot of time on their hands, but this is the thing Like who? The fuck is going through the trash to see anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean speechless, yeah, Does she live in Nuremberg yeah. No, no, I think Erlangen.
Speaker 2:Ah well, nuremberg Erlangen same same.
Speaker 1:But I'm not 100% sure actually. Okay, but anyways, this is exactly what you say. These challenges bring people together and they will automatically build a community because they have to. But in general, this I mean that's at least our experience you know, living in all these different cultures, that this is even there are infrastructural challenges. It's, on a personal level, so much nicer, yeah, because of this community and people helping each other, which we have lost in so many countries now, where you have old people being alone and so many of them, and I mean we have seen the health system, you know but we also.
Speaker 2:Old people are also alone for their own fault yes, yes, I'm not saying it's not their fault.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know that that's this whole. Hey, let's, let's uh, be independent and let's go for you know, let's, let's, let's grow like, let's teach these kids to be as independent as possible. And I have this from you because you're like but why Do we want him like not? To have any contact with us later. No, we want him to be part of our family, of our life. True, you know, and that's I think. Really, I don't know where this came from, but that destroyed so much.
Speaker 2:I really believe it's this 90s era, 80s, 90s era american style where you need to selfishness. You can do everything alone. You need to do everything alone. If you haven't done it alone, then you haven't succeeded. I still remember the first time when you told me what you do and then I met your, your uncle, who works at beep, who works at another big German company, right, and I was like, yeah, but why don't you work for him? And you're like, what do you mean? I was like, yeah, I mean why didn't you ask him for a job, like when you first started? I was like no, because otherwise people would think that I only got the job because of him.
Speaker 1:And I was like, in my country, if you work for one, one company, your whole family and all the all, everybody would work for that company and nobody would think like oh, you got through.
Speaker 2:No, it's just normal. It's just normal, you know. That's how you do. You gotta help. You help a brother out, you know what I mean, whereas you you're like no, I'm this independent person and I could do it on my own, and I need to prove that I can do it on my own. Blah, blah, blah, and I just found it very funny yeah, and this is crazy, right, how? Would you still? Do you still see that today, like if muna nui wanted?
Speaker 1:yeah, still, I still see that today.
Speaker 2:But you want muna nui to go to another big german company if he doesn't want to do his own thing, or whatever I mean, I would not.
Speaker 1:I I'm not thinking like he should go through hardship like I did. No, no, no, I of course would help. Yeah, I think there. I think other countries do it better. Yeah, I'm not saying that this is yeah. Of course it needs to be fair. Yeah, and you need to choose the best candidate, but yeah, but I do understand that it's good to help each other.
Speaker 1:You don't need to do everything yourself alone in this world, and this is a bit the way I was brought up, so any challenge I had I had to overcome myself, because you don't ask others for help. That's just the way it is, and I did, and it made me stronger, but I mean why and and this is really this bootstrap mentality this I gotta do it alone and I gotta.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just like ramble my way into success, you know, and I can only do it alone. And the path is walk alone and blah, blah. But no, the path is not walked alone. The path is, you know, there's people that put stones down before you, there's people that cut the grass before you. There's people. You understand what I mean. That path, yes, and if the path doesn't exist, then you got to make your own path. And this is also what I always told you and this is also why I was, and still today, you know, I want you. You always said, like there's, you never had a role model. And then I told you well then you need to become your own role model. Right, and yes, sometimes you're going to walk the path alone because no one else is there to help you with that, but a lot of times you can't do it alone. You really cannot.
Speaker 2:You need help from people around you to support you to love you to keep on pushing you when you turn back to tell you, hey, turn the fuck around and keep walking forward.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is the same when you start parenting, right, I mean with these little cutieie babies, but they're so exhausting and you need to take turns. You say, hey, okay, you, I really need an hour of sleep. Okay, can you please take over?
Speaker 2:this is energy level thing. Yeah, I really love yeah, yeah exactly that one instagram video. That was super helpful, and it's like I'm at 10, now we're at 15, but and and I think here it's also I mean talking about the energy level.
Speaker 1:What I also like is we're just all different, and and I think here it's also I mean talking about the energy level what I also like is we're just all different and and I think this also when I especially when I think about women and career and children and and what I mentioned also before where women work maybe 50, 70, but then they do 100 at home. You know, not all women are super women and have like an unlimited amount of energy. I know I am, but it's true.
Speaker 1:But I had that always since a kid. I mean, this is my nature, this is my personality, but it's not fair because there's a lot of them that they don't have it, and it's fine that they don't have it. You know, we all have a different level of energy and I think we should be able to fairly distribute that. At the end of the day, we're both at zero. Not one is at minus 100 and the other one is still at 50. And I think this is really what is meant with choosing your right partner people to surround yourself that lift you up, that help you, that support you, that are actually there to charge your batteries and not drain you.
Speaker 2:I think, instead of saying choosing your right partner, it should be choosing your right people yeah, yeah, because that includes this right exactly, yeah, it includes everything yeah, it includes everything. I'm happy I chose you as a partner.
Speaker 1:Honestly, there are some days where I'd like to throw myself out of this building. And I know this sounds cheesy, but I do remember the first second I saw you and it was love at first sight. I never thought this is possible. You know, I was one of these women. No, I'm never going to marry. I didn't say I will always stay single, but I didn't believe in finding my soulmate.
Speaker 2:Have you seen me? I would fall in love with myself on first sight too.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was already in love with myself. I love you so much, my honey bunny, I love you and thank you for all the support you give me.
Speaker 2:Thank you for all the support you give me I love you I love you, my honey bunny. Bye, guys bye, bye.