BEAR-ly Getting Started 12.2 - New Zealand IPA

When you think about unique IPAs it is time to look to the Kiwi nation for tropical and win-line flavor notes. Enjoy the discussion on the differences between New Zealand and White IPAs. Featuring Monkey Kung Fu from Griffon Brewing in Youngstown, NY. Be sure to visit one of their location to enjoy a large selection of beer.

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Transcript

Jason:

The Buffalo Brews Podcast. You are listening to Barely Getting Started Series 12, Episode 2, and I'm Jason, and I'm here with Craig Altabella from Magic Bear Beer Cellar, and in this episode, we're going to be talking about all things monkey kung fu.

Craig:

Yes, things that are noteworthy niche, and again, like I said with the previous episode and for many other episodes, it's tough to gather four beers for a season, and then some things then just jump off the shelf, and this was one, and not so much that it's a monkey jumping at you with its monkey kung fu, but it is like two different styles, and one, and again, it's going to allow us to touch base on a bunch of stuff while enjoying something that is a relatively style that you wouldn't even realize that we were having.

I'll have questions for sure. Yes. So first, it's from Griffin Brewing.

Let's kind of clear the air. This is based on everything I know, which I think is pretty much up to date. So Griffin Gastropub, from my hometown of Niagara Falls, they always had amazing tap lists, really, really well known for their fair, their pub grub, their elevated pub fair, and then amazingly large tap list with hard to get beers and really good stuff.

Then the open one, there was one in East Aurora. There was one, unfortunately it has closed, I think due to negotiations with the landlord, but out in East Amherst, Clarence, so around transit there. There is one, it used to be on Center Street in Lewiston, now it's all the way, took over Water Street and Landing, and so that's like- Great location, by the way.

Yeah, it's just- Beautiful there. They are just pumping, pumping beer down there. And then in Lockport is where, or sorry, Youngstown is where they opened up the brewery.

So they're brewing beer at Youngstown, and basically now, I think they might have a few guest taps, but they are brewing the beer for all of the restaurants. So you go to a Griffin, and mainly on their tap list is going to be Griffin Brewing. After the pandemic, them as well as many other 35, 40 plus tap places, they kind of just steered away from having that many beers on tap.

A lot went to waste, and it's tough. I think at one point, the one in East Aurora might have had 70, and when you have 70 beers that are on tap, it's tough to make sure that they're all moving, and they're all good. I think the bottle shop concept, which we are here at Magic Bear and plenty other places are, kind of takes over for that.

Oh, you want a huge variety of beer that you can enjoy? Well, you know what? I've got 200 beers that you can try here, only 12 of which are on tap.

But if you wanted to try something on draft, these are kind of the places to go. And that has switched over now to they're brewing their own beer, and they're brewing some really, really good beers. They do a lot of Belgian stuff.

They do a lot of IPAs, but they have a Keller beer as well. It's called Keller High Water. Oh, yeah.

Yes. So it's a Keller beer. So they're doing German.

They're doing Belgian. They also have some Pobels, so they're taking from traditional, then some fruited sours. They do have a lot in this karate type series.

This is Monkey Kung Fu. We've also had Thai Cheetah. We've had some sort of Panda, and their labels are really eye-catching and some good artwork on them.

But their hazy IPAs have been really good. I also know Carl Kobe from Pressure Drop. He is one of the main brewers there now as well.

So they've got a nice selection of brewers that all bring different things. And the noteworthy niche style of Monkey Kung Fu is because not only is it a New Zealand IPA, so sometimes you'll see instead of a New England, an NEIPA, which some people will say NIPA, which I just say it's New England IPA or a hazy IPA, New Zealand or an NZ IPA. Not only is it a New Zealand IPA, it's New Zealand White IPA.

So White IPAs are basically taking a base IPA recipe, but then swapping the yeast out for more of a Belgian yeast. And the color kind of is a little lighter, and it gives it a little bit more head. So I think that's kind of where the white comes from.

I used to really like, Saranac actually had a White IPA. I'm talking early 2000s when there wasn't a ton of craft breweries, and you would just try some. It was just different.

Back then, the IPA craze was, what we were talking about last episode, people getting up towards that 100 IBUs. Well, instead of trying to punch you in the face with IBUs and bitterness, it was like, hey, the flavor profile and the base style of an IPA, but then we're going to add that little nuanced yeast aspect with some Belgian style yeast. So that's what makes it a White IPA.

So White IPA is a style within itself. Think of it as a Belgian IPA. And then a New Zealand IPA is another style within itself, and it's really, it starts getting to be where we're splitting hairs.

To me, it's either you have American IPAs, and if you really want to tell people, hey, this is a bitter, malty beer, you say West Coast style IPA. I think American IPA is almost synonymous with the East Coast IPA. But when you talk West Coast, and it's the true American, like the original American IPA, but then if you want someone to know it's hazy, I just call it a hazy IPA, or you call it a New England IPA.

But when you throw that NZ on there, basically what you're saying is like, hey, we're using the New World hops or New Zealand and Australian hops, which end up being like your Galaxy, your Motueka, Nelson Sauvin, a lot of stuff that kind of brings these more tropical vibes, sometimes a little bit more white wine-ish, especially like that Nelson Sauvin, it just really is, it kind of gives you this Sauvignon Blanc kind of aspect, and these grape kind of notes.

And a lot of cool, interesting things that, hey, it's a hazy IPA, so you're getting what you look for, but instead of like really juicy, citrusy juice, now you're getting that tropical fruit kind of juice flavor of the pineapples, the papayas, and your, you know, some are a little bit more kiwi, and then you got Rewaka, which is almost like petrol, kind of like a Riesling in wine, it's got kind of like a oily undertone to it, not like oily like texture, but oily as in like a petrol, kind of like minerality and just like some grungy vibes to it, and this one is very noteworthy because it's got a little bit of each, you know, a little bit of that New Zealand, so I was able to talk a little bit about that, and then that white IPA aspect, so we can talk about that.

It's a 6.5%er, so pretty much standard for an IPA, brewed in Youngstown, New York, and let's crack this bad boy open, so let me know if you got any questions, or I'll let you take over while I, you know, I don't want to do too many things at once here and end up with white IPA.

Jason:

Well, and again, you covered a lot of the locations of Griffin, and there, if you're a tourist, or if you're visiting Niagara Falls, their flagship location is right there on Military Road, just above the Factory Outlet Mall, and you know, it's a place to go. Great food, quite a wide variety of beers, and one of the things I was, as we were talking about their kind of Kung Fu series that they have here, I think the one that they have on the list right here, right now, is Dubel Dragon, they're Belgian, yeah, I always like that one. Yeah, but they have some really fun names, like Citra Ass in the Bubble Bath, that's a good one, they have the Ghost Ship and the Coconut Ghost Ship, if you prefer the coconut, and then one of, where's my, my personal favorite in here was the...

Craig:

Hugh Hefnerd.

Jason:

Is there Hefeweizen, they have the Keller High Water. And I believe they may have been the first to strike on the pumpkin beers this season with their Gourd Vader.

Craig:

Oh yeah? Yeah, they may have been the first. The Gourd beers are coming.

Jason:

Yep, they're, I believe they're the first one that struck with a pumpkin.

Craig:

The Gourd Vader, you just hear the Imperial March, doon, doon, doon, doon, doon, doon.

Jason:

The label is Vader with the jack-o'-lantern face.

Craig:

Oh really? Yeah, it's, yeah, this is pretty cool. I'll have to keep an eye on that, try and get that in here.

So as we, as we take a little look, it definitely poured, let's do a little cheers before we forget.

Jason:

Oh, we won't forget, we're on a roll now.

Craig:

Oh, but yeah, that's so nice. Just notes of like, mango, pineapple, you know, I, you know, you hate describing something so basically, but you know, that first beer just smelled very malty, very much like this smells like beer. This just smells like an IPA.

Like if I was doing a blind sniff test and you were just putting beers and let me sniff them, I'd be like, oh yeah, this is an IPA. It's just, it has a lot of hop aroma. I don't know if you pick up on it.

I think it's got some Roacca in there cause like it has like this pineapple, um, tropical kind of vibe that makes way to like, I always get like a little bit of just like a little exhaust, like, like some lawnmower exhaust, which is funny because I, I, um, like the one thing I get on the nose with something like this is it's a little bubble gummy. Yeah. And that could be from the yeast that could be just a mix of all the different flavor profiles.

There's a lot that can come from when you're mixing stuff and that bubble gum, like again, that could come from that Belgian yeast. So nice color, definitely a hazy IPA, um, much hazier. I can't really see through it.

It's not that super milky, uh, opaque that you see in some high PAs, uh, hazy IPAs in new England's, but it's definitely much hazier than the golden, uh, heliophile we just had. I can't see the fingers through it like, and this is a little, little less golden, a little bit more just yellow. I mean, it kind of just looks like a glass of juice, like, you know, could be, could be, you know, not as orange as a sunny to light, but you know, this definitely looks like it could be a, uh, an orange juice cocktail where it's a little bit of pineapple, a little bit mingle, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

And then, yeah, those tropical sips. I mean, almost finishing with a little, like almost like a little peach in there too. Could be.

So yeah, I think, I think peacherine, peacherine might be a New Zealand hop, but, uh, nice little head and I think I got to take a sip now. All right. It is time.

So yeah, definitely lots going on, right? So I mean, I want to, yeah, I want to hear what you have to say.

Jason:

Well, I, because I always love New Zealand hops. So the big thing for me, and a lot of people argue with me on this is even though I'm getting the citrus notes with that, I feel that New Zealand hops are, have an earthy undertone to them. I don't know what that comes from, honestly, but to me, uh, and it could be because it has that kind of grape aspect to it, which I tend to get on some lighter wines.

Craig:

Like almost like a tannic? Like, um.

Jason:

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, and I think people, when they think I say earthy, they mean it's supposed to taste like dirt or something, but that, that's not the case.

It just, to me, it kind of of the earth for me, almost like green.

Craig:

Like you taste like, like if this taste had a color, what would it taste like? You don't, when you're drinking a, like a pumpkin beer with a ton of cinnamon, like to me that you just, you feel like an autumnal orange red vibe to that aroma and that flavor. This has much more of a greenish yellow kind of, you know, flavor profile to it.

And I think that's like, you know, the more earthy aspect versus, um, you know, the, the more clean golden that seems to be more malt focused or even your darker roastier beers.

Jason:

When I, when I saw this on the list, I was excited to have it because A, don't have too many white IPAs. Can't remember the last time I had one. And then B, um, full of New Zealand hops.

So I was looking forward to it and it tastes exactly how I imagined it. Yeah. It is a good beer.

Craig:

Um, especially if, you know, you like yourself, like all of those things, it's not going to be a good beer if you don't like those things. But is it a well-made beer? Yes.

Oh, we got nice head retention. Definitely good aroma. Definitely has nice color, nice, nice mouthfeel.

So just, you know, all of the things that you look for in a beer, right? It doesn't fall flat. It doesn't taste flabby, right?

It's got like a nice little spritz to it. Um, yeah, it kind of has just like almost like this slight mimosa vibe to it where it's not, it's not orange juice, but it's got like that champagne and, uh, juice aspect. But it's more of, to me, like a peach pineapple mango.

And um, I get that little earthy, like petrol kind of like, it's so hard for me to describe because it's so distinctive to my palate. Like I know it, I know when Rawka's in there.

Jason:

It's like bringing up those wine aspects earlier. Um, that's just some of the reasons why I like this. And it's six point, what was I thinking?

Six and a half ABV?

Craig:

Six and a half, yeah.

Jason:

Yeah. This is, I mean, this is deceivably good where it's not, um, it doesn't have a bite. It's there's, I mean, I don't get any bitterness off of it.

Craig:

The only thing I'll get a little bit, yeah, not like, not like a hot bitterness, right? Not a true, just straight up. I summarized.

When it first hits your tongue, I mean, you get, it's, Hey, I'm drinking beer. It's got like this residual bitterness, almost like a pithy, right? It's not pure bitter, like a, not a chemical compound bitter.

It's just got like the, Hey, you know, I've got some tropical fruit rind still going. And is it, you know, almost, almost like what we were talking when I was saying tannic, it's got almost like the grapeseed type of tannin to it.

Jason:

Now we're going back to just on the finish to Griffin themselves, um, Ken and Ed who, uh, who own the, the entire collection of, of, uh, gastro pubs there, uh, they started off with the Lewiston pub or Lewiston brew house, Lewiston pub house. And that's what they owned before Griffin started. And once Griffin opened on Niagara Falls Boulevard or Niagara Falls in Niagara Falls on military road, then they closed down the Lewiston and it was nice to see that they ended up getting back up there and the success that they had.

Craig:

Yeah, it was a, we used to go to, is this, I think Augie's diner. It was like a small diner, just a greasy, greasy spoon, like, you know, mainly breakfast, mainly weekends. You would go there and just coffee's pouring nonstop and you know, they just went in, they blacked out the windows.

They made it very dark and you know, in a good way, it just was a very like man cave kind of like, it just, it felt like you're like in a castle almost. Um, you know, Griffin's always had kind of this gargoyle, you know, well actual Griffin, I guess I should say. Yep.

Jason:

Yeah. For those who want to break out their dungeons and dragons books there.

Craig:

I think it was a lion head with an Eagle body or something. That's it. Eagle.

So it's always had this kind of like medieval Gothic, Gothic, I think is what I'm looking for here. Um, type of vibe to it where you go in there and it just feels like, all right, hey, I'm going to try some, you know, they have a wild game burger at all their places usually and you know, you're trying some yak or ostrich and it's one of those places that you know you're going to get some good food, you know, there's going to be some good beer on tap and then.

Jason:

Each, each location is so unique. Um, and if, if you're literally want to do a tour of one place, yeah, hit, hit, you gotta hit them all up. Yeah.

Craig:

So, uh, you know, we, we definitely, I feel like this leans more New Zealand than it does wide IPA, but I feel like some of those, some of the like tannic stuff is, is actually some of the esters and phenolics coming out of the, uh, the Belgian East. I think we're getting like, I think the mix of these tropical fruit vibes with some hint of like spicy phenols, not a ton, but like just a tiny Ted, you know, and a little bit of esters. And usually those are a little bit more palm fruit and you can get a little bit of citrus from it.

I think the combination of the two is kind of what brings that kind of, uh, secondary bitterness that is, you know, it's more of, it's more like how roast bitterness affects a beer where it's not, it's not that pure, just bitter kind of is, is present in the beer. And it's more from like the roasted coffee brings out like an extra kind of hint of bitterness. And then this one, I think the, the, the mix of the fruity juice as well as the ester and phenolic side of things that combined together brings out like a little bit of like this type of bitterness.

Why do you think that more breweries don't make white IPAs? I mean, a lot of times what it boils down to is what are you going to make money selling? And it's like, you know, if we're making lots of money and we're going to put something on like a white IPA that we don't know if it's going to sell well or not, they've only got so much tap space.

They've only, you know, they only have so much fermentation space and it's like, are we willing to risk putting out this white IPA when we know if we just make another hazy New England or even just a straight New Zealand versus a white IPA that, you know, it's a risk. It's definitely a risk. And then I think a lot of people just aren't aware, you know, including brewers.

There's not a lot of commercial examples.

Jason:

I look at the flip side of that is because there's I, I know so many people that go, you know, like IPA. What do you like? What do you like?

What do you prefer? I'm like, I like, I like a good New England hazy. Like, oh, I can't drink that stuff.

But, but this could be a little bit more widely approachable. This is more tolerable for somebody who doesn't like an IPA because it does not have the IPA bitterness, has the IPA color. But that's about it.

I mean, it's a different, it's a different mouthfeel. It's a different texture. It's a different flavor.

Craig:

So I just thought, you know, definitely, definitely different flavor than your, you know, your less aggressive IPA. Yeah, it's less aggressive and it's got a little bit, it's got a little bit of nuance to it with that, that extra yeast flavor. And I think that since there aren't a ton and there's not a terrible amount of, you know, commercial examples of it, you know, a lot of times you've got breweries that are more historians that are like, I want to make this because I haven't made it yet.

And, you know, you've got brewers that are like, I want to replicate this beer because I love it. And I want to be able to make it at my brewery and I want to be able to drink it. And I think the fact that you don't see a ton of white IPAs, it's not, it's not something that's talked about a lot.

So there's not like brewers going, oh, man, we got to make this. We got to make that. So you're probably, you know, there's probably a brewer within the fold over here at Griffin that's like, let's make a white IPA, man.

I made one once and I thought it was fantastic. And it's like, yeah, all right, let's do it. But if you're not talking about it or you don't know about it, I don't think it's one that people are like scouring through the pages of a beer journal and going, yeah, we need to make more white IPAs because it'll, it'll, it'll be, you know, it'll definitely sell, you know, we need to do, make one of them white IPAs, you know, that, you know.

Jason:

So listen, if you're in Buffalo, Niagara region, Rochester, OK, hey, holler to the folks that listen in Erie or even the South Shore in Niagara up in Canada. You're going to make a white IPA and you put it on social media. There's chances are I'm going to figure out a way to get there.

That's right. Because I got to, I got to see what makes yours. What makes yours good?

A and B, what if it's going to make it unique? Because just not a lot of people. I mean, we mentioned one before this.

Craig:

It was Cerenac, a white IPA that I know that I can, you know, pull from my fishbowl of memory. Shout out to my friend Daryl. He's a salesman, you know, does more than just sales.

But, you know, he does like broad marketing for a category. But one of the things that he was with Pete's Cheese for a while, just a cheese company. And he was telling me, he's like, hey, man, you shop at Restaurant Depot.

I know you're not a pizzeria. I don't know. I don't.

I know you don't need it. But every time you go in there, just ask them, ask them if they got Galbani's Premio. And I was like, just ask them if they go.

He's like, yeah, because if you're always asking and some other people asking, who knows? Maybe they start bringing it in. So what's Premio?

So that's just the that's the higher end, lower moisture, your better pizza cheese.

Jason:

Oh, gotcha.

Craig:

So the majority of people that shop at Restaurant Depot, those are like it's like me. They're there. We're middle of the road food.

Like I don't do much food at all. So for me to be getting trucks in and delivered like I get a Cisco truck twice a year. But other places, you know, they're using Latina and Boulevard.

And but they're if you have a pizza shop that's, hey, small enough where I'm going to pick up my own versus having a truck deliver it. They're not necessarily grabbing the premium cheese, the high, the highest end of cheese you can get. So it's Galbani's high end cheese.

You know, he's giving me samples of it because I have a little pizza oven at my house and it is good stuff. But it's one of those where, you know, that's why I'm saying do it with the white IPA. I'm saying this because go out there and just keep asking.

Keep asking. Hey, you got any white IPAs? You guys ever going to make a white IPA?

And the more people hear it, the more it might stick. And next thing you know, you might see a few more white IPAs out there. But if not, we know that Griffin's got monkey kung fu.

Jason:

That's it. Yeah, that's it. They you know, they have a great selection, a large selection.

Like you were saying that they they do dabble in quite the variety.

Craig:

So I mean, I just get a couple ordered from them. I got two Belgian dark ales. So like almost two different types of quads.

They I've gotten a Belgian triple. I've got Gutenberg right now, which is like a Belgian blonde. Then you name it.

They've got more. I got I had hops and robbers. I had Nelson, full Nelson, half Nelson.

Love the names. All these different IPAs and these kung fu series. I had all their one year anniversary beers, which were a bunch of barley wines.

And then they had, you know, this 18 percent stouts. I mean, they're just they're churning out different. And each beer has been pretty darn good, in my opinion.

So kudos to them. Newer Brewery, I think they came in with the capital and the reputation to just really hit the ground running versus some other places that are, you know, trying to they didn't need to worry about the restaurant component. They already had those going.

Now it was let's make sure we have good beer. And, you know, I think they're one of those places that would wait until they're happy with what they have before they put it on the market. And I think I'm one of the few places that actually get their canned products.

So I'm glad to be able to get them. I'm glad to be able to talk about them. And they are definitely putting out some noteworthy niche beers.

Jason:

Nice. If you if you don't have the opportunity to. I haven't stepped into the Youngstown location.

I've been in every other one, though, including Clarence, which unfortunately is no longer open. But if you get an opportunity to go in there, whatever they have, can cooler to take home. But if not, you're in South Buffalo here.

You got to come down to seven ninety nine Seneca Street in in South Buffalo, Larkinville, down to Magic Bear Beer Cellar. Get you some get you some Griffin Brewery. And then I guess this is going to wrap up here.

Episode two. Yeah. Series twelve of barely getting started.

And we're talking about noteworthy niche beers. And again, we're talking about something noteworthy niche in regards to the beer and the brewery itself with with Griffin Brewery.

Craig:

Absolutely.

Jason:

And then what do we got on tap for for the next episode? I know episode got to take a flight here. I understand.

Craig:

Yes, we're going to go to, you know, if the white IPA in the Belgian East is a foreshadow into the next one where we're going to head over to Belgium. But some of the lesser known styles within the the northern region of Belgium.

Jason:

All right. And that's going to be on the next episode of barely getting started. I am Jason Edinger.

He is Craig out to bellow and we wish you cheers. Cheers.

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