Sweeney Todd's Chilling Harmonies and Halloween Frights Unveiled

Can music make your skin crawl? Our Halloween special promises to give you the creeps as we uncover the spine-tingling magic of a musical masterpiece that truly haunts. The eerie allure of Stephen Sondheim's "Sweeney Todd" might just send shivers down your spine, as it did for Lauren. Join us as we celebrate our recent nominations for two Irish Podcast Awards and explore this chilling piece while cracking a few jokes to keep the ghosts at bay.

We'll unravel how Sondheim's genius was shaped by horror movie soundtracks, creating a menacing atmosphere through his innovative use of sung dialogue and the haunting "Dies Irae" theme. Comparing the suspenseful undertones of "Sweeney Todd" with the tension in "Wicked," we dive into the clever use of violins and share our own personal horror film encounters. From the iconic scores of Bernard Herrmann to our own terror of clowns and puppets, come explore the fascinating interplay between music and fear.

Enter the macabre world of "Sweeney Todd," where we navigate the intricate plot and colorful characters. Benjamin Barker's grim transformation, the playful yet gruesome song "A Little Priest," and authentic Cockney slang paint a vivid picture of Victorian London. We even dip into historical references and the modern film adaptation, examining Sondheim's personal involvement and how it strikes a perfect balance of light and dark. So grab your headphones and prepare for a musical journey that combines horror, history, and humor in a way that only Sondheim can deliver.

End of MLL

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:27

Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts.

Speaker 2 0:30

Tim and LJ. Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us.

Speaker 1 0:37

We were a bit too cheery there with our intro. To be quite honest with you, this is our Halloween special.

Speaker 2 0:42

It is our Halloween special.

Speaker 1 0:43

Yeah, I didn't really think of that. Do we go again and like give it a bit more mood?

Speaker 2 0:49

No, because I have felt really uneasy all day because we're doing this, so is this one of your five? Yes, yes, yes yes, yes, this is five, the five musicals that gives Lauren the heebie jeebies and she can't cope with and this is one of them, and I've had to listen to it and like research it. And I've had to listen to it and like research it and I've just felt a bit well.

Speaker 1 1:13

Have you.

Speaker 2 1:13

Yeah, but it's brilliant like. I mean it is, it is a really good musical.

Speaker 1 1:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:21

But I just feel uncomfortable about it.

Speaker 1 1:26

Does like the music, and the songs just strike you with fear.

Speaker 2 1:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:30

Well then, job done. Because, that's exactly what he was looking for when he wrote the thing Exactly.

Speaker 2 1:35

So he did a good job.

Speaker 1 1:37

He did a good job and you're starting to rock and sweat as well.

Speaker 3 1:41

Oh bless you I know, it's okay.

Speaker 1 1:43

Would you want to just talk about a different musical? Then this week. No, no, no, We've done enough research and do you know what, at least after this like episode like it's ticked off your list You'd never have to listen to it again, I know.

Speaker 2 1:55

True, true. Yeah, that's okay. Let's always look at the bright side of life. That's atrocious, that you would never listen to this musical ever again for the rest of your life. No, I just wouldn't listen to it as or like feel like it's consuming me, like I do feel really uneasy.

Speaker 1 2:10

It does. It gets you on the edge of your seat.

Speaker 2 2:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:16

I love it.

Speaker 2 2:17

I mean we've like kind of gone straight into what we're talking about this week.

Speaker 1 2:21

Well, just because it's like our it's our Halloween episode and I went oh, were we a bit chirpy? We need to be a wee bit wah-ha-ha. And then you started to freak out yeah, and you're only a couple of minutes in I know um. Shall we share some good news? Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 2 2:36

We won an irish podcasting award, guys you are really putting it out there, like I you sent it to me it hasn't like officially been announced. We have not won yet, oh oh right okay, timothy's just being very positive I was so positive.

Speaker 1 2:55

How long did it take me to reply to your message when you sent it to me?

Speaker 2 2:58

I mean timothy. I send you a message on six to seven working days. You may respond like this was quite good.

Speaker 1 3:05

Then it was the next day it was the next day. Yeah, I know I know I did, yeah, yeah, I didn't believe it at first.

Speaker 2 3:12

To be quite honest with you, I was like, yeah, right, fair did you think I just like yeah, gone on to camp and created it?

Speaker 1 3:18

no you, you sent the link and went we're on this. And then when I went into the link and I was scrolling down, I was like I don't see her name, she's winding us up. And then I was like maybe this is her like kind of going next year. We want to be on this list. And then I saw us.

Speaker 2 3:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:39

Best music Two.

Speaker 2 3:41

Did you only see one?

Speaker 1 3:42

No, I only saw the best music we're in best music and best entertainment. Stop it yeah, so like double whammy we could win both, I'm pretty sure we're up against.

Speaker 2 3:54

You know local comedian with me who, she and Todd, who, who.

Speaker 1 4:04

Well, we'll definitely win that one then, won't we? It is very nice to be nominated.

Speaker 2 4:10

It is and recognised.

Speaker 1 4:11

So how do people vote then?

Speaker 2 4:13

Well, if you go on our socials, it's irishpodawardscom dot com, it's irishpodawards and it's on our socials. There's a link there and you can go in and you can vote. You can vote for somebody in all of the categories, so don't just have to vote for the two categories or just vote for us.

Speaker 1 4:30

Yeah, multiple times.

Speaker 2 4:32

Can you use different, different email addresses Synonyms yeah, please, not diplomas, like we learned last week we were like, do we mention it on the pod?

Speaker 1 4:41

And then I was like I'm so shameless. I was like, absolutely, that's just good.

Speaker 2 4:51

It's something to off.

Speaker 1 4:53

Yeah, someone somewhere is going oh, we'll put them on the list I know this week journey is very exciting.

Speaker 2 4:56

So yeah, you ever thought crazy that we would be up for an irish pod awards, not one two I genuinely missed that second one.

Speaker 1 5:01

I thought it was just the music one oh, wow, oh wow, and you know what?

Speaker 2 5:08

there is a category for best producer of a movie. Next year, ep, ep, could get on the list. You never know, but yeah, fingers crossed, we'll see what this annual review says.

Speaker 1 5:20

Right back to all things. Hallow, Hallow, hallowed.

Speaker 2 5:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1 5:25

Hallowed Eve, is that what they call it?

Speaker 2 5:28

Halloween, I know it's.

Speaker 1 5:29

Halloween, but like do they do Halloween? Oh, Hallowed Eve, Is that what they?

Speaker 2 5:31

call it Halloween. I know it's Halloween, but like do they do Halloween?

Speaker 1 5:34

Old Hallow's Eve. Old Hallow's Eve.

Speaker 2 5:38

Old Hallow's Eve, like some old man there.

Speaker 1 5:42

He was just pretending.

Speaker 2 5:43

Just pretending.

Speaker 1 5:44

Just busy producing. Just busy producing on his phone.

Speaker 2 5:49

He's really going for this award next year 2025 it's my year you can feel it. You can feel it not.

Speaker 1 5:58

If we've got rid by, then I'm only joking you.

Speaker 2 6:00

We would never get rid of you and then I also thought you meant like got rid of the podcast.

Speaker 1 6:05

I was like is this you?

Speaker 2 6:06

no, just got rid of our producer me is this you saying no, I'm done with that Guys have something to tell you. No, not happening.

Speaker 1 6:14

Mary Poppins has been in contact.

Speaker 2 6:16

Definitely not true. Okay Lies Okay.

Speaker 1 6:21

So do you want to tell them, or will I, the scary Mary that we're looking at today?

Speaker 2 6:26

The scary Mary that we are looking at is Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street. Do-a-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.

Speaker 1 6:35

Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd.

Speaker 2 6:37

Oh, I actually do have the shivers, I just don't like it.

Speaker 1 6:42

It's amazing.

Speaker 2 6:43

Okay, it is a very good musical. It's 1979. Music and lyrics by Stephen Sondheim the legend, 1979. Music and lyrics by Stephen Sondheim the legend by Hugh Wheeler. It was based on the 1970 play which I did not know about yeah which was called Sweeney Todd and that is by Christopher Bond, and he is on or was an artistic director of the Everyman Theatre in Liverpool, which is quite a famous theatre, but Sondheim went and seen the play and then felt ooh, okay, this definitely has legs.

Speaker 2 7:16

But he felt that by adding music to the play it would certainly increase the drama and it does?

Speaker 1 7:23

It really does, because Sweeney Todd is kind of Stephen Sondheim's love letter to England. It's quite the love letter, isn't it?

Speaker 2 7:33

Yeah, and it's funny because even though it's set in Fleet Street, london, new York, really it's like their musical, like it's Broadway's musical as such, because you know people will say Sondheim and Andrew Lloyd Webber are like similar, in the same sort of like band, if you were going to put them together.

Speaker 2 7:55

So this kind of came at a time, like you know, Phantom and Cats, you know those big spectacular musicals and this was Sondheim's like going to watch something and feel immersed in the theatre and feeling like you were watching something massive because the sets were bigger and music was louder and all of that.

Speaker 1 8:15

Yeah, it's a love letter of a twisted stalker type, eh.

Speaker 2 8:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1 8:20

Sweeney Todd, who slices people's throats and dumps bodies down chutes and then has them baked in pies.

Speaker 2 8:27

Yeah, it's not the liveliest.

Speaker 1 8:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 8:30

I mean, you certainly don't leave Sweeney Todd feeling happy.

Speaker 1 8:35

No, yeah, that's fair yeah.

Speaker 2 8:37

You know, it is a wee bit creepy.

Speaker 1 8:39

There are fewer, blacker in tone or the better charter the decay of a soul touched with evil wracked with rage.

Speaker 2 8:48

I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like this feeling at all.

Speaker 1 8:53

Honestly, I've worked so hard in this episode, just to make sure I freak, you're not going to sleep tonight. No, don't Freak you out. You know, the 1979 stage production of Sweeney Todd never went into profit, I know. Yet this gruesome tale of the Barber's Revenge has become Stephen Sondheim's most popular show, thanks to many revivals, reimaginings and a major movie adaptation. When we talk about movie adaptations, it was major, with Johnny Depp as Sweeney Todd and Helena Bonham Carter isn't that right as Mrs Lovett Lovett, there might be a wee, few wee puns as we go through this evening.

Speaker 1 9:39

Do you know what I mean? But yeah, I very much enjoy it. The original production opened on Broadway in 1979, starring Len Carew Carew, yeah, carew, yeah who was famous at that time he had just been in A Little Night Music, and then all the wonderful Angela Lansbury, who had done a revival of Gypsy, I think, and then Anyone Can Whistle. It ran for just over a year, I know and was deemed to be unsuccessful.

Speaker 1 10:15

Unsuccessful with 557 performances. However, nominated for nine Tonys, winning eight, including Best Musical, best Book and Score, and both leading actor and actress walked away with the gong too. So Len and Angela.

Speaker 2 10:34

And do you know, sondheim has never had any show on Broadway last more than a thousand performances.

Speaker 1 10:41

I think it's a Sondheim thing though, yeah, and I do you know what? I'm okay with that. I think I think that gives a bit of class to his work. In that it is. I just think with steven sondheim, his work is so clever, yeah, and so high, high bro, that it's not going to ever appeal to the masses. Appeal to the masses it will get good audiences, but then it will need to be rested. However, look at the number of revivals of his shows that happen, and the majority of them yeah are successful revivals do you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 11:21

Like there's very few that are clangers do you? Know what I mean when they bring it back to give it another outing. So yeah it, it is a for such a successful composer. I suppose it is a bit shocking that oh my goodness it none of his shows ever last.

Speaker 2 11:39

But really, when you know his shows and know his work, I think he can understand why it doesn't have a big long run and also I think it has got that's got to do with there's so much in the shows that he has created and they're so intricate, they're fast paced. And the music there's a lot to it, but also the lyrics there's so much to it. I think for actors, maybe doing a thousand performances is maybe just a bit much.

Speaker 1 12:08

They'd be busted, wouldn't they? Yeah, absolutely busted. It could just be bit much. They'd be busted wouldn't they?

Speaker 2 12:10

Yeah, so Absolutely busted. It could just be that too.

Speaker 1 12:12

It did have mixed reviews for a number of reasons. So some people felt first of all we should mention Stephen Sondheim when he got the rights and approached Hal Prince to direct, and a lot of people say that Hal's direction neutralised the show's delicate balance between acidic wit and dark satire. Because also we should mention, it is gruesome but it is also killingly funny yeah, yeah, it's all time.

Speaker 2 12:42

Was very eager to make sure that that would. That would be prominent at any sort of production. Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:51

And I think you definitely like in a show like this. You definitely need Mrs. Lovett Do you know what I mean. It's a bit like in Les Mis. You need the Tenardiers. Although they are the truest villain in the piece, they also provide a bit of comedy and light relief. Others struggled with the graphic violence involved. You'd maybe be in that camp, would?

Speaker 2 13:15

you? Yeah, I would, I definitely would.

Speaker 1 13:18

And then there was always that complaint with Sondheim that he doesn't write hummable tunes.

Speaker 2 13:24

Yes, and this is the thing Now, I think, for people that are involved in musical theatre and love musical theatre, they probably, if you said, hum me a Sondheim, you could probably do it.

Speaker 1 13:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:35

But let's think of the likes of Aaron, who maybe has seen Sweeney Todd and Into the Woods and knows a couple of songs from like Company, from like Glee and things like that I don't think he would be able to hum a Sondheim.

Speaker 1 13:48

Can you hum the tale of Sweeney Todd? I mean, this is a challenge, nope oh, that was worth waiting, for sure, and also, I don't think it's something that would be.

Speaker 2 14:00

You have to think about it. Well, I certainly know I have to think about it and I do love song time, so even if I go into the woods. Okay, what will I go with? Probably the number one for me is probably going to be Agony, because I can go Agony.

Speaker 1 14:11

But then, but even, what's the Next Line? Da-da-da-da-da-da, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 14:16

Or you know.

Speaker 1 14:18

Because he's just so clever and intricate with his lyrics as well, yeah, no, I agree with you. It then opened on the West End in 1980 in the Royal Theatre Dury Lane, love, that, that what's it called Theatre Starring Sheila Hancock and the late Dennis Quilley. Despite mixed reviews and an even shorter, 157 performance run, the production won a Best Olivier for Best New Musical. Yeah, yeah, it is funny like successful, but very short run and yeah but then we're still talking about it so many years later and there has just been a recent revival and all of that.

Speaker 2 15:00

Did you know, though, that, um, some people try to claim that sweeney todd was a real character, like a real person, but that's not true. It was just fiction yeah always, all fiction and and he was in like the penny dreadfuls.

Speaker 1 15:13

That's right um and the the um the victorian penny dreadful, yeah, and it was called a string of pearls in 1785.

Musical Influence on Horror

Speaker 2 15:21

So it features all of the principal villains, but it doesn't necessarily have the story that christ Bond then created.

Speaker 1 15:30

Ah, interesting, okay, cool. Did you say Victorian Penny Dreadfuls? I said the Victorian Penny Dreadfuls and you said 1785.

Speaker 2 15:39

Yeah, string of Pearls set in. Sorry. Sorry, it's set in 1785, not the Penny Dreadfuls are not Victorian. Well, it's good to know he listens eh, it is yeah Good to know he listens.

Speaker 1 15:50

Back not Victorian. It's good to know he listens. Eh, it is, yeah, good to know he listens Back checking us there. Interestingly, musically, for Sweeney Todd's Sondheim drew inspiration from movie music. Oh, really, yes, oh, okay, and when I discovered this, I was like it all makes so much sense now, like that anticipation. Yeah, and just the sound of the music. Like you 100% could hear it in a horror film. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 16:18

yes yeah, so he said about composing what he later described as horror movie music. He set the entire show to music, using sung dialogue and underscoring to create film like tension, and he incorporated some music from dies era I r a e okay which it um, which is also, I think it's called day of wrath, or it's can it's translated into day of wrath and is used, uh, at funeral masses. Oh, okay, and it acts he actually um, uses bits of it yes, I did in some of the some of the songs that we might get on to when we get to our musical, musical lyrical lingos.

Speaker 1 17:05

To heighten the sense of grandeur, he scored a few of the characters for voices, um, with some classical vocal training requiring a strong bass baritone for sweeney and a soprano for joanna yeah um, and then for the final climactic 20 minutes of the show. Son times main aim was simply to be frightening. Yeah, as he said, it was just a matter of okay, let's scare them.

Speaker 2 17:33

Yeah oh, and he did it. Oh, we did yeah because look at you, you're sitting there trembling I know like yeah, I just oh, I basically feel funny it's something about the violins, like the way he scored the violins, and that show is this.

Speaker 1 17:47

Like you know, that did it, did it, did it, did it. And I'm like, oh my god, something bad's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 17:54

I was listening, obviously listening to it in preparation for this episode, and those violins, as you said, um, also reminded me of wicked, oh, interesting, just especially as wicked opens and you um see the monkeys, um. And then, just before, no good deed, because I was just listening to it while I was driving, so obviously I was concentrating on driving. I was like this is similar. I have never, but I that particked always makes me feel uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 18:22

Yeah, the two scary most like like eerie climatic kind of moments.

Speaker 3 18:27

I just remember you saying about the violins wasn't it Bernard Herrmann that did the music for Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho and Vertigo and all that? And it's that staccato use of the violins which was quite impactful and probably could be.

Speaker 1 18:43

That's your horror film music right there isn't it. Yeah, it's sort of set the.

Speaker 2 18:48

The tone.

Speaker 1 18:48

The tone. See, I'm a bit funny in that I don't watch horror movies. No, I just wouldn't watch them. I can't watch horror movies. To be fair, I went to the cinema to see Men in Black the first one and jumped and screamed so much no word of a lie ended up in the row behind me.

Speaker 3 19:08

I've never heard Men and Black being described as a horror movie.

Speaker 1 19:12

It was a horror movie. Let me tell you see, when that alien jumped out, I jumped into the row behind me.

Speaker 2 19:18

No, I don't like Men and Black, I don't like anything scary. Aaron loves horror movies and our eldest is really into horror movies, which is not something I know that innocent, sweet looking young lady and yet our son is like me. So the like last halloween news went through a series of just watching, like all the screams back to back and halloween no way, I can't do the screams at all, and me and ethan, is that her name? Chelsea?

Speaker 1 19:47

what? What's the main? The main character's name sydney, sydney. There you go.

Speaker 2 19:53

Courtney chelsea close well, me and ethan, our youngest, um, we were like we're gonna go and watch labyrinth. And then I was like, even then I was like, well we'll, and I think we end up watching White Chicks or something.

Speaker 1 20:07

Yeah, because.

Speaker 2 20:08

Labyrinth is a bit scary, right, no, but it's a wee bit like ooh, it doesn't scare me, labyrinth, but yeah.

Speaker 3 20:14

Horror movies like the Halloween movies and things like that, or even the screen movies, don't even show up on my radar as far as being spooky but see Labyrinth and anything with puppets you don't really like, even if you like Avenue Q.

Speaker 1 20:33

I suppose puppets doing comedy slightly different, those Jim Hansen style ones oh, what's that?

Speaker 2 20:38

one like the fantasy. Dark Crystals things like that. But then you don't like Clowns, but you can watch.

Speaker 1 20:47

I can't do Clowns.

Speaker 2 20:47

You can watch it.

Speaker 1 20:48

Yeah, oh gosh no.

Speaker 3 20:50

Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 2 20:52

It's weird, but no, I can't do any any type of scary movie Like I just don 1000% with you but this is okay for you. Yeah, that's weird. No see, I still feel this, but like, I mean like you know what's coming?

Speaker 1 21:08

he's gonna cut their throat and throw them down the shit. Do you know what I mean? Like you kind of know what's gonna happen. It's not, and at no point does he like jump out and scare you. Okay, do you know what I mean? I'm a jumpy kind of critter. Do you know what I mean? Don't, don't, don't. I mean people walk into my classroom of an afternoon when all the kids have gone home and if I'm busy doing something and I didn't hear them coming in, I I yelp do you remember that time?

Speaker 1 21:35

my dad jumped out and scared us and you ran up the lane and like just left me and also my heart didn't stop like racing for about three hours after like dad had to like go and shout out the lane like timothy, come back, it's me I that night. I thought I was dying. I thought survival instinct. Yeah, if you watch, those horror movies.

Speaker 3 21:55

If most of them just ran, they would have been all right. Yeah, it's people like lj who just stood still.

Speaker 1 22:01

Yeah, I'm not brave enough to investigate or inquire. I have no interest in knowing. I'm gone.

Speaker 3 22:08

Yeah, you're a survivor, see you later, good luck.

Speaker 1 22:10

And if I'm with you or somebody else, good luck to you.

Speaker 3 22:13

You're on your own because I'm out of there like a bat out of hell. Do you think Sweeney Todd doesn't scare you so much because you get the payoff of a song?

Speaker 1 22:20

Yeah, of the song. Yeah, I mean, I think. I think a singing barber who cuts throats is probably less scary than a actual barber or, like you know, a movie barber who cuts throats.

Speaker 2 22:30

So do you think if you just watch this as a film, it would scare you?

Speaker 1 22:33

but the fact that it's a musical it's okay although I don't know if the film would scare me, now that the first, like the first time I was Introduced to the story I got introduced to it was the musical version.

Speaker 3 22:47

You know what?

Speaker 2 22:47

I mean, I'm like.

Speaker 1 22:48

Occy's just going to cut a stroke now.

Speaker 2 22:50

Oc here. Okay, that's all right.

Speaker 1 22:52

Get ready, here it comes, and you would think.

Speaker 3 22:54

A part of it as well is if you went to the barber's. You're putting yourself in a vulnerable situation where there is somebody with a razor or a pair of scissors and you're sitting there and there's a lot of trust. You're sitting there and you're. You'd think that would be something you could associate with and go. I've actually never thought of it. The vulnerability involved in that no you're going to terrify me. I'm not going to go to the barbers.

Speaker 1 23:16

I'm bald, I don't go to the barbers Like you would see other movies and stuff or TV series where they slice the throats and you know, like Spartacus or whatever, that's very gory and I struggle with that, but I don't seem to struggle with Sweeney you just love Sondheim.

Speaker 3 23:36

You're more likely to come in contact with a barber with a razor than a Roman soldier with a sword you just never know.

Speaker 1 23:43

these days people dress up in all types of things they do.

Speaker 3 23:46

Not the parties I go to.

Speaker 1 23:51

I think probably the success of this musical also is its many revivals, as you've kind of said. And what's, I think, really nice about this is there's been so many revivals and they've all been so very different over the years, you know.

Speaker 1 24:09

I think it is a piece that is very open to interpretation, which just gives it so much, you know, legs for the future. And I think it's a Sondheim thing because I think if you look at all of his like, they are very open to being done very differently, but I don't think he has ever.

Speaker 2 24:28

I know that he's dead now, but I don't think he ever closed off a show. I don't think he ever said it and said this is how it has to be no, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 24:36

Which is, as you said, is lovely, I mean over the years it's you know like Sweeney Todd's have ranged from full school full scale operatic productions to we intimate treatments. So John Doyle's stylized West End interpretation in 2004 featured 10 actor musos, and the production then transferred to Broadway a year later and won two Tony Awards yeah, and that that's the one that had Patti LuPone in it. Yes, that's right and then in 2012 in the West End revival. It starred Michael Ball and Imelda Staunton and it was highly acclaimed and won three Olivier Awards.

Speaker 2 25:15

And it was different because it was just set inside the pie shop.

Speaker 1 25:18

Well, that's it yeah. So yeah, Was that the same one? Was that the 2012 West End Revival one? Yeah, it was the one with I don't think.

Speaker 2 25:26

No, I'm pretty sure the one with the mountain. Was that, not the?

Speaker 1 25:27

London 2015 one. Oh, maybe it was when there was two productions running alongside each other.

Speaker 2 25:33

Oh, okay, sorry.

Speaker 1 25:33

There was one full orchestral concert staging in the English National Opera and then a version in the pie shop on Shaftesbury Avenue. Okay, shop on Shaftesbury Avenue. I don't think Michael Ball and Imelda Stanton would both be able to fit into a small puppy pie shop somehow. I mean the crowds that they would have drawn. I think that have been queued up round the corner that have had to do the musical on loop.

Speaker 2 25:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:57

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 26:04

Yeah, so it's 80% sung and 20% spoken.

Speaker 1 26:07

Is it, mm-hmm? Where'd you get those?

Speaker 2 26:09

stats that's good, just made them up.

Speaker 1 26:12

No, I didn't. I would love to meet the person who actually mathematically worked that out.

Speaker 2 26:17

Oh yeah, no, I wouldn't. I'm just happy enough to stick to it.

Speaker 1 26:20

Here it goes.

Speaker 2 26:22

What.

Speaker 1 26:23

Yes.

Speaker 3 26:24

EP, I wasn't actually going to say anything, but it wouldn't be hard to do, would it?

Speaker 1 26:28

Well, no offence to you, but I'm not going to count the number of words that were sung in comparison to the number of words that were spoken in a musical. It's not time, it's words.

Speaker 3 26:38

Oh right, okay. So I thought like if you were doing it by time, you would just get the soundtrack, get the time in the soundtrack, get the play time.

Speaker 2 26:45

Okay.

Speaker 3 26:46

Maybe and work that out.

Speaker 2 26:47

Yeah, true.

Speaker 3 26:49

But it's not. He's working hard for this nomination. I know couldn't see I'm paying attention, I'm like he's got more involved in this conversation than he has in the whole year.

Speaker 2 26:59

Love it. Well, what about musical lyrical lingos then?

Speaker 1 27:02

Okay, let's start the prelude. It's always a good place to start in a musical isn't it the prelude, the ballad of Sweeney Todd.

Speaker 2 27:09

Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd, which does happen about 50,000 times though.

Speaker 1 27:12

Yeah, the different words. So it's like. It is like the narrative bit, isn't it? It's like the great chorus, great chorus, yeah, so he sings um his needs were few.

Speaker 2 27:33

Yeah, his room was bare a lava, a lava bow and a front, a fancy chair, a mug of suds and a leather strop.

Speaker 1 27:36

So, yeah, because they were my two yeah, so a lava bow a wash basin was a wash basin you would need that if you're a barber. Like to be fair absolutely.

Speaker 2 27:45

And then the leather strop is that strip of leather which is used to rub an old razor to make it sharp there you go.

Speaker 1 27:53

I'd love to give that a go, you know? Oh, would you like? Coming from someone who goes to the barber to get? His beard trimmed yeah I'd love to give a blades like razor-y things not on myself are you joking me? I want to do what they do, like you know, like you get a balloon and you like foam up the balloon and then use a razor blade on the balloon and see if you can do it without popping it using a blade on my face? Absolutely not, do you think I'm stupid?

Speaker 2 28:24

okay, sorry, sorry um have you ever done?

Musical Tale of Sweeney Todd

Speaker 1 28:28

have you ever done a wet shave? Not, obviously not on your face. But every third not recently anyway, but you girls don't use like that type of blade on your legs.

Speaker 2 28:43

Do you no Like you use like a A razor, yeah.

Speaker 1 28:46

They also sing Inconspicuous Sweeney was unobtrusive, not clearly visible or attracting attention, alluding to how Sweeney I got so excited there I started singing that and then went.

Speaker 2 29:00

I know and I'm just going to say and I don't mean this like here she goes. It's so dependent Sweeney Todd and most of Sondheim stuff as you have probably listened to it. You should just have one person singing it, and also it's really important to not just read the lyrics. You need to hear it. So what are you saying? My singing's not good enough tonight, so don't ever sing Sondheim. I'm not too sure we were getting the true essence.

Speaker 1 29:28

I think it mixed two melody lines into the one lyrical sentence.

Speaker 2 29:34

It did really feel like Sondheim was in the room, right, okay.

Speaker 1 29:41

Well, sometimes he's not hummable, okay, lauren? So inconspicuous Sweeney was unobtrusive, not clearly visible or attracting attention, alluding to how Sweeney was never caught for his murders.

Speaker 3 29:53

Like most serial killers, sweeney appeared to be an unremarkable middle-aged man, but was actually a murderous demon.

Speaker 1 30:01

What happened then? Well, that's the play, and he wouldn't want to give it away. That was an accurate interpretation.

Speaker 2 30:09

That was good.

Speaker 1 30:14

All the musical phrases used throughout the Ballad of Sweeney Todd are related to this dies era. Am I saying that right?

Speaker 2 30:20

Yeah, pretty sure you are.

Speaker 1 30:22

D-I-E-S and then I-R-A-E.

Speaker 2 30:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:26

Which is the song of death. So, despite Dies Irae being a leading influence on the show's music, the melodies only actually play three times oh, in the epiphany, in this the prologue, or the prelude, and in the epilogue, ballads Ah, okay, yeah, and Di's eras can be heard on that line, this line. So what happened then? Well, that's the play, and we wouldn't want to give it away.

Speaker 2 30:59

Yeah, because it sort of starts like a talking in past tense and then, as these ballads of Sweeney Todd go on, it then goes from he was to he is.

Speaker 1 31:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:11

So then you kind of see that shift that they a bit like you know in Hadestown, where you probably don't realize until the end that it's like started again.

Speaker 1 31:21

Yeah that it's like started again. Yeah, oh, like by using the song of death in that line, uh, where the fourth, where the play is acknowledged, sondheim is spoiling the show yeah, he's basically saying everyone dies yeah yeah, surprise um did you learn anything from the prelude other than I'm absolutely in fear of my life.

Speaker 2 31:41

Just those two, and the fact that, um, that was probably the first time I really heard that word inconspicuous. Inconspicuous Sweeney was Easily seen or noticed.

Speaker 1 31:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:53

Or conspicuous yeah.

Speaker 1 31:55

Very good. What else?

Speaker 2 31:57

did you learn so in no place like London?

Speaker 1 32:00

No place like London. You see, I can do certain lines.

Speaker 2 32:05

Yeah, I have sailed. The world beheld its wonders From. Dardanelles to the mountains of Peru.

Speaker 1 32:14

I have sailed the world and behold its wonder. From the Dardanelles to the mountains of Peru, but there's no place like London. That was really good.

Speaker 2 32:28

You go back and listen to the soundtrack and it sounds like that. So I think we didn't really explain the story of Sweeney Todd. So he, he was a barber Sweeney Todd called oh, I've forgotten his name.

Speaker 1 32:43

Benjamin Barker Benjamin.

Speaker 2 32:44

Barker, barker, benjamin Barker, and he is exiled to Australia At that time. That's where they sent convicts and criminals. And he's coming back with a man called Anthony and he is then tells this story about a barber. It turns out that he is that barber yeah, and his wife was poisoned and tricked by the judge yeah, and lots of nasty stuff happened. Are we going to give spoilers? Do you think enough people have seen Sweeney Todd?

Speaker 1 33:18

Well, put it this way, the wife. When Benjamin Barker was exiled, the wife had a very difficult life to lead, yes, but there was an element of madness that crept in because of her treatment by the judge. And the judge now also has his eye set on the daughter who he.

Speaker 2 33:42

Once the wife went mad, yeah he turned his attention to. He then became her ward.

Speaker 1 33:50

And he's attracted to her.

Speaker 2 33:53

He's now very attracted to her.

Speaker 1 33:55

All the way back Creepsville.

Speaker 2 33:57

Yes.

Speaker 1 33:57

Okay.

Speaker 2 33:58

That's all we need to say, isn't it? Yeah, sweeney Todd has come back under a new name and he is looking for revenge, so this story is all about revenge.

Sweeney Todd

Speaker 1 34:07

I want revenge. No, I want. What is that I want? I can't remember. He said he sings a wee line about what he wants okay, anyway, back to what I was saying.

Speaker 2 34:18

So that Dardanelles, dardanelles, I started to research it and then it looked like too much like geography and.

Speaker 3 34:24

I got a wee bit confused.

Speaker 2 34:25

So it's one of the world's narrowest straits used for international navigation, and is it in Turkey?

Speaker 1 34:31

Yes, that is correct. Okay, there we go. I learned something, and by mentioning Dardanelles and Peru, it shows just how well-travelled Anthony was, despite his naivety.

Speaker 2 34:41

Yeah, Because Anthony's quite naive, but but I also thought like that meant that he's probably a lot older than maybe how he's played and the no, just that he's no, I think yeah, I think he's a young well-traveled young okay I think he needs to be young, because then isn't he the love?

Speaker 1 35:01

yes the genuine love interest for Joanna. And that would be just even more creepsville if it was an other old man like fancying her.

Speaker 2 35:10

Yeah, true.

Speaker 1 35:10

God bless her Um.

Speaker 2 35:14

Oh and that's something I should say Sorry. Whenever I was first introduced to Sweeney Todd, I didn't realize that Joanna was actually Sweeney Todd's daughter. Yeah, I thought Joanna was the product of the judge and the wife oh really. So I kind of always felt like Sweeney Todd was a bit creepy towards Joanna because he reminded her of his wife, realizing that it was genuine love does that make sense? Yes, fair enough, so that took me a wee while like number of years to realize fair enough.

Speaker 1 35:46

I mean, I'm probably going to put it out there. You haven't really seen it, nor listened to it very much, have you? No, I've seen that like.

Speaker 2 35:53

I've seen the Angela Lansbury version um, and I've seen like you know?

Speaker 1 35:58

did you watch the film version of it? Yes, I have seen the film version.

Speaker 2 36:02

Oh, like I knew before then, but I just mean whenever I was maybe like a teenager, like a younger teenager being introduced to it.

Speaker 1 36:09

But yeah, sorry, that was just something I learned during no Place Like London, this mad woman like intersects quite a lot, this beggar woman, and she sings Alms, alms for a pitiful woman.

Speaker 2 36:23

Her language is hilarious. Awful, very, very naughty Very rude, and sometimes it's censored, and then other times it's not censored at all. I don't even think that we should say some of the lines.

Speaker 1 36:38

Okay, well, what I'll say is Alms, alms yes for a pitiful woman. I also didn't realize that's what she's singing. I just thought she was making noises, yeah when you watch the show or listen to the show, but she's actually saying alms a, l m s and alms uh. Was money, food or other material goods donated to people living in poverty?

Speaker 2 37:00

Same. I did not know that at all, so I didn't know that. That's by saying that word. It means you know, instead of saying give me food or materials they just need to say alms yeah.

Speaker 1 37:10

And we'll be naughty for just one wee second. Yeah, no, no.

Speaker 2 37:12

I mean, like I'm just saying the language is, it's very colourful.

Speaker 1 37:18

Well, sondheim did his research. So one of the things, one of the lines she sings because she's quite inappropriate towards Sweeney on his arrival back to London and they bump into each other in the street. And she says fish misquiff, mister. And Sondheim reported that in his research into Cockney slang he found out that that actually was the authentic euphemism for sexual intercourse naughty.

Speaker 1 37:50

I mean, I certainly learned some new ways, me too, but that's the only one I wrote down also they refer to. Obviously they talk about the judge a lot, who is the baddie of. Yeah, I mean sweeney todd's the baddie, but like, yeah, you did, you've got a bit of like understanding the sweeney todd, whereas the judge is just a horrible, creepy, awful character. But he has a bit of a sidekick in the Beatle.

Speaker 2 38:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1 38:19

And that word Beatle was an officer of the church school or something of a similar degree.

Speaker 2 38:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1 38:28

And I didn't realise that. The Beatle, yeah, anything else from now. No, that was all in New.

Speaker 2 38:35

Placid London and I had something from Perthing.

Speaker 1 38:38

Me too.

Speaker 2 38:39

Yeah. So the judge, he tells her all contrite, he blames himself for her dreadful plight. So that contrite means feeling or showing sorrow and remorse for a wrong thing that has been done.

Speaker 1 38:53

Very good. They also sing every day they'd nudge and they'd wheedle W-H-E-E-D-L-E. Wheedle means to flatter, so meaning that every day the judge and the beadle would come bother or flirt with poor Lucy, trying to seduce her.

Speaker 2 39:10

Lucy is the daughter. No, Lucy's the wife.

Speaker 1 39:14

Lucy's the wife. Lucy's the wife that makes sense.

Speaker 2 39:17

It's Sweeney's wife, sweeney's wife, lucy's the wife, lucy's the wife. That makes sense.

Speaker 1 39:18

It's Sweeney's wife, sweeney's wife.

Speaker 2 39:20

So pretty much the judge wanted Lucy and then got rid of Sweeney and then thinking that Lucy would then just fall in love with the judge. But that didn't happen. So he had to force himself.

Speaker 1 39:31

He turned his attentions to the daughter, my friends.

Speaker 2 39:36

Yes.

Speaker 1 39:37

These are my friends. Interestingly like, the whole song is about his blades.

Speaker 2 39:46

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 39:46

Which is really clever.

Speaker 2 39:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:48

Calling the blades my friends. Mrs Lovett actually sings my them handles are chased silver, aren't they? And chasing was a form of engraving, how the razor handles were all fancy swirls and details and stuff like that. I thought that's kind of cool While Sondheim wrote the lyric At last, my right arm is complete again. In most performances, actually including the cast recordings, this line is changed. Oh yeah, it doesn't mention the right arm, it just says at last, my arm is complete again. And that is because Len Carew the original Sweeney Todd, the man who originated.

Speaker 1 40:39

The role was actually left-handed.

Speaker 2 40:42

Okay.

Speaker 1 40:43

Yeah, and his Tony-winning portrayal left such an impression that most Sweeneys since then have just followed this precedent. Oh, I like that, but in the original original, original, Sondheim wrote it at last, my right arm is complete.

Speaker 2 41:01

Very good and then had to take it out when he discovered the actor was left-handed. Okay, there you go. Very good. So the contest which happens between somebody pretending to be italian isn't that right and sweeney? Sweeney and it's a contest on who can shave, who can give the closest shave. Sorry, I was taking a drink there. Um, I have service, no kings. Yet I wager that I can shave a cheek with 10 times more dexterity than any street mount bank, okay.

Speaker 1 41:45

Okay.

Speaker 2 41:47

So a person so mount bank is a person who sells quack medicines from a platform there you go. So he's referring to? He's like trying to sell this like lotion which is going to make your hair grow back isn't that right?

Speaker 1 42:00

Pirelli's miracle elixir, which actually was urine yes, because he says in a ball smells, smells him.

Speaker 2 42:10

And mrs lovett talk about the smell, yes, of urine, yeah, yeah, um, interestingly, uh, pirelli's miracle elixir this, this false yeah you know, medicine, um that they were selling around.

Speaker 1 42:24

This time period started to pop up something known as patent. Patent medicine, oh um, a kind of medicine that, much like pirelli's mixture, was a combination of random herbs and sometimes even drugs like opium right, and they would claim to cure everything from losing hair to cancer and was also known as like cure-alls.

Speaker 2 42:52

Right, okay.

Speaker 1 42:53

But they actually cured nothing, yeah, and this was unfortunately because at that time doctors could not be trusted, so snake oil salesman, as they were called, took advantage of the desperation and ripped off people. So I thought, oh, that's quite clever that they, you know, they kind of linked that time, yeah, and those type of things that were happening, and introduced a character like, you know, pirelli yeah, because you don't really need him no, no, not at all well, I suppose he's like is he the first?

Speaker 2 43:27

person yeah, he's the first person his throat cut and did you know that actually it's not the fact that the throat gets cut? So in the the original I think in the Penny Dreadful it was the chair. The way it was designed was the person sitting in the chair would fall on their head and if the fall didn't kill them then he slit their throat because he had the razor blade Interesting.

Speaker 1 43:53

But then they switched that on its head for the musical. Because then? Obviously for the musical you need to be able to see, yeah, the death as such um and that is a bit gruesome, like yeah, you know watching that because you can't do, sweeney Todd and just you know, go behind a curtain and go.

Speaker 2 44:11

He's dead. You've got, they've got to be able to see it. So that's why I think a larger scale production works, because you need to have those like yeah that chair and your oven and all of that.

Speaker 1 44:23

How embarrassing would it have been if there had been a technical malfunction and the chair didn't flip and oh sorry I cannot get rid of the body in um, also in pirelli's miracle el, as you were saying, like they were trying to sell this urine to grow back hair follicles. I need some of that to be fair.

Speaker 1 44:48

They sing the line. See this chap with hair like Shelley's. You can tell he used Pirelli's. Pirelli's and there's the Shelley's reference is a possible reference to Percy Shelley, who was famous. He was a famous 18th century poet for his luxurious, windswept hair.

Speaker 2 45:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1 45:09

Did you know that?

Speaker 2 45:10

Very good.

Speaker 1 45:11

Yeah, they all had posters of Percy Shelley on the on the wall. Anything else from Pirelli.

Speaker 2 45:19

No no.

Speaker 1 45:20

Do you have anything from?

Speaker 2 45:21

Greenfinch and Linenbird. No, I don't like that song, were you not impressed?

Speaker 1 45:26

No, I don't like that song either. But blooming heck. How many different birds could they get into the one I know, there was a lot of birds, I suppose Greenfinch. Linenbird, nightingale, blackbird, and then you've got ring, dove and robinette, and then the lark yeah and then they sing the line. My cage has many rooms, damask and dark oh damask was a woven, reversible patterned fabric or upholstery of the time. Google it, it's not.

Speaker 2 46:03

No, not that nice. I mean, I don't think you'd cover this front room in it. I struggle with that song because but maybe it's just maybe then how Joanna appears like later on, whenever she's like, oh, anthony, and I feel like she's got like a wee bit of like fight in her. She's like, oh no, he's gonna marry me off, like it's Friday and yeah, yeah, you know that well, this one, I feel like she's so.

Speaker 1 46:30

Oh, my goodness, look at me yes, it is a wee bit woe, isn't? It yeah teach me how to sing yeah, well, you're singing to birds love.

Pie, Meat, and Musical Influence

Speaker 2 46:38

Yes, I just, I just don't, I don't get that, but I think it was, because it's also quite a short song isn't it maybe just a way to introduce her? Was it just an?

Speaker 1 46:46

introduction to the character. I suppose.

Speaker 2 46:49

Oh, this is Joanna yeah, she's sweet and a better song maybe. Oh be, I don't know. My goodness, it's on time.

Speaker 1 46:58

Anyway, could you just write a better song. It's on time for Joanna. That'd be really appreciated, wigmaker.

Speaker 2 47:05

They mentioned bedlam. The word bedlam, bedlam, which is a word, genetic, or yeah, generally used for psychiatric hospitals, I can almost speak and sometimes you use colloquial used for psychiatric hospitals, I can almost speak. Um, and sometimes use click, sometimes used for uproar, you know you'll be. Oh, I guess it's bedlam. Yeah, that's just a reference to the madhouse so that's where bedlam came from.

Speaker 1 47:30

It originated from the madhouses. Interesting that's really.

Speaker 2 47:36

That's that is interesting okay so that's all my musical lyrical lingo. Is that the lyrics and the songs? I've got one more.

Speaker 1 47:43

I've only got one more, so actually I'm very impressed. You got just about the same as me in a little priest which is in a little priest. That's a song where basically Lovett is talking about the different contents of the pie. Maybe Isn't that right that you could have, poet, or you could have.

Speaker 2 48:10

The songs prior to that is she sings the Worst Pies in London. These are the worst pies in London and she talks about are we made up the road? Who is using pussycats? Um, and how much can you fill a pie with pussy? It's, you know, all of all of the language is interesting, and, um, then, on time was a wee bit naughty, wasn't he? Oh he was and we have the first death, first murder, and she's like but meat is very expensive. So we already know that this is a problem with her.

Speaker 1 48:47

Times are hard.

Speaker 2 48:49

But ooh, we could fill the pies with the meat here. So why don't you try a bit of priest? Why don't you try a judge? Why don't you try a bit of priest? Why don't you try a judge? Why don't you try a politician? It's oily. It needs to be served with a doily.

Speaker 1 49:04

Or the marine always tastes from where he's been.

Speaker 2 49:07

Yeah, disgusting. It's a struggle.

Speaker 1 49:14

She also sings it's fop in the pie, oh, finest in the shop, oh.

Speaker 2 49:19

Finest in the shop oh.

Speaker 1 49:21

And I didn't know what a fop was FOP.

Speaker 2 49:23

A fop is a man who is concerned with his clothes and appearance and an affected and excessive kind of obsessive with image and what he looks like kind of person, right, okay, a narcissist, yeah yeah, kind of like that obsessive with image and what he looks like kind of person, right, okay, a narcissist, yeah, yeah, kind of like that, a fop oh a bit of a fop finest this idea of meat pie. It's not like new, you know, like eating people within a pie can we just talk?

Speaker 1 49:56

pies for a wee minute.

Speaker 2 49:57

Can I just get this out a wee second? Okay? So meat pie. It's also in Shakespeare's Titus Adro. Oh I can't say words Adrogynous, is that the right word?

Speaker 1 50:06

Titus Adrogyny. No, that's.

Speaker 2 50:08

Shakespeare's play.

Speaker 1 50:10

But I mean.

Speaker 2 50:12

It's a bit gross eating humans.

Speaker 1 50:14

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 50:20

But then I suppose, I suppose no, there's no suppose. No, no, it is. There's no suppose, but it's gross. Imagine that's us thinking that and we eat meat. Imagine being a vegetarian. You're probably going yeah, it is bit gross god, we're going down this route but this is also why I don't eat pork, because it's a wee bit too close to humans.

Speaker 1 50:36

How is pork any different than beef no, it definitely is, definitely is.

Speaker 2 50:41

So I'm like that song really grosses me out well, yes, you know, cannibalism isn't attractive are? You sure?

Speaker 1 50:52

oh, 1000, not attractive. Okay, can I bring it back to something a wee bit more cheery? I know, it is our Halloween episode.

Speaker 2 51:00

Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 1 51:02

What makes a pie a pie?

Speaker 2 51:06

Oh, it's the filling.

Speaker 1 51:09

You reckon.

Speaker 2 51:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 51:12

I would say it is the surround the crust Crust Right. I am sick and deaf of going to restaurants and they have pie on the menu and it's a casserole with a puff pastry top. That is not a pie, that is a casserole with a puff pastry top. A pie is crust the whole way around the bottom's crust. The sides way around the bottom's crust. The sides are crust.

Speaker 2 51:41

The top's crust. That's a pie. Okay, yes, A pie is enclosed meat enclosed inside a casing.

Speaker 1 51:46

Of pastry.

Speaker 2 51:48

Yes.

Speaker 1 51:48

Does that not really do your?

Speaker 2 51:51

I totally get it.

Speaker 1 51:52

Yes, it drives me insane Because the pastry's the best bit. Is it a rate? I actually, I am a rate, like, give me a blade now and I can't guarantee you you're not safe. No one joking. It really annoys me when you go out for dinner and you like order the pie and you're very excited for your pastry-covered pie or pastry-enclosed that's a better word, isn't it and a blooming casserole dish appears on your table. You ordered the pie, but you got served the lie. That's correct, thanks.

Speaker 3 52:24

You wouldn't do it with Sweeney, would you no?

Speaker 2 52:26

I think the next time you go to your restaurant and you want to order the pie, I think you should ask is it an enclosed pie?

Speaker 1 52:31

Or is it a casserole with a puff pastry top? You went cheap Cheats Anyway, sorry, it just really destroys my happiness we can tell. Can you?

Speaker 3 52:44

Yeah, you've made that quite clear.

Speaker 1 52:47

Times are hard.

Speaker 2 52:51

Quickly. We'll talk about the 2007 film. I know we mentioned it.

Speaker 1 52:56

Yes.

Speaker 2 52:56

Johnny Depp, it was Tim Burton, it's been a long time did you know son time had final say on all casting for the film? I wouldn't be surprised by that if he definitely held, sweet and tall, very close to his heart because, um, he felt there needed to be that light and dark yeah elements in it, which I think the film does well, because I heard reports from the latest one with Josh Groban and Anna Lee.

Speaker 1 53:25

Oh, but like that Cockney accent of hers.

Speaker 2 53:29

It wasn't great, but the more I listen to it, it's okay.

Speaker 1 53:32

I actually had to because that was the one I was listening to. Because I'm a big fan of Josh Groban, seen him on concert several times, I know I actually had to divert to the Michael Ball Imelda. Staunton one because I couldn't listen to her numbers. I wanted to take Josh Groban's Sweeney and Imelda Staunton's Mrs Lovett and put it into its own, unique.

Speaker 2 53:53

That would be very good.

Speaker 1 53:54

I almost considered making a playlist then, but for continuity reasons I also felt I couldn't cope with that jumping between the two.

Speaker 2 54:03

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 54:04

Sorry that was.

Speaker 2 54:05

No, that's fine, but I think that's what the film does well is Mrs Lovett is very, very obsessed and in love with Sweeney Todd and he really has no emotions, and I think that that's important to say. Well, this is how I interpret it. Is that, is he bad, or has his situations made him bad, like I don't know? If the judge hadn't done that, would he go around and slit people's throats? No, I don't think so. So therefore, I don't think he's.

Speaker 1 54:32

Benjamin Barker was an absolutely normal man but.

Speaker 2 54:39

But she, especially, especially, she's singing um the sea song by the sea, by the sea todd yes, and he's just sitting there like, yeah, love, whatever, you know, like just you can do whatever, and like it's he, he's no more interested in her than he is anything else. And she's like, oh, but a year or two could we go by the sea? And you know, it would be just so lovely. And she's like singing around him and everything, and I think the film does that.

Speaker 1 55:04

Have you seen some of the like, like footage of that in the most recent broadway one. Very funny. There is a because, obviously, broadway went through a period where they replaced the Sweeney Todd and the Lovett a couple of times within the one production, didn't they? And it then ended up being Aaron Tvei and Sutton Foster, and there's some fantastic videos of Sutton Foster, who is literally crawling on Sweeney, oh yes, I have seen her doing it. And it's very, very funny.

Speaker 2 55:44

Yeah, also, something TikTok taught me about Sweeney Todd was apparently Worst Pies in London is meant to be a mocking of Annie's Tomorrow. No, I still can't get to the bottom of it, I still don't know if it's true. I think people are trying to say that sometime was trying to mock, because they're both in g flat major and if you go and listen to tomorrow, tomorrow, and then listen to worst pies in london, it's the same melody and it's I don't't understand music, timothy. So apparently it starts in A and goes down to G flat major.

Speaker 1 56:21

Apparently, but for goodness sake, I once upon a time did the three chords song, which was a mashup of like every pop song or popular song that used the same three chords.

Speaker 3 56:33

Magic chords.

Speaker 1 56:34

Magic chords. Is that what they're called? I mean, I can't poo-poo it until I've gone and listened to them both, but I find that very difficult. I mean, somehow I kind of think Sondheim didn't need to rip off.

Speaker 2 56:47

No, I know, and I somehow but it's really funny, though, that this is definitely doing its rounds on TikTok.

Speaker 1 56:57

There's something I don't know. I really want to go and dress up as Sweeney Todd.

Speaker 2 57:02

That could be whenever we have our musical.

Speaker 1 57:04

There's another perfect Jew for us Sweeney.

Speaker 2 57:09

Mrs Lovett, I could be a corpse.

Speaker 1 57:12

And you could be the corpse. There we go.

Speaker 2 57:15

I could be Joanna.

Speaker 1 57:16

We could cut your throat and shove you down the shit To be fair. Your staircase If we did, if we like. Pretended to cut his throat At the top of the staircase, we could just like Push him and he would like yeah, perfect.

Speaker 3 57:29

Tim, I'm not enjoying the thought process Behind this anymore, oh sorry.

Speaker 1 57:31

I mean not for real, like it's just for like A wee Halloween party, sure.

Speaker 2 57:35

Yeah, we should do that, it's all got really creepy You've always just wanted to shove me in a oven.

Speaker 1 57:42

Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 57:43

I forgot he does that to her at the end.

Speaker 1 57:46

Oh, I didn't mean that, but now that you've mentioned it, I didn't mean that.

Speaker 2 57:51

No.

Speaker 1 57:51

Promise love.

Speaker 2 57:52

That's okay by the sea, Mr Todd, that's a lie bye. Well, do you know what I feel like? We've talked a lot about it I'm the sun is starting to go down and I'm feeling a little bit dark, isn't it? It's so dark in this room we need to, you know, wrap it up has this episode like been like therapy for you?

Speaker 1 58:14

do you feel that you?

Speaker 2 58:16

I feel like I've listened to it I feel like I've listened to it and I don't need to listen to it for a long time. I would be able to have a conversation about it and won't need to go and listen to it, hopefully, for another few years.

Speaker 1 58:27

Thank you very much well, let's leave it there then to all those people out there go and vote for us in the podcast awards and also have a lovely Halloween. Stay safe and if you're going to get a shave, just please check your barber first. Until next week. Bye.