Heathers the musical

Please be advised some content discussed in this week's episode some listeners might find disturbing.

Join Tim and LJ this week on Musical Lyrical Lingo as they dive headfirst into the darkly delicious world of Heathers: The Musical!  From the iconic "Candy Store" to the heart-wrenching "Seventeen," they'll dissect the sharp wit, biting social commentary, and surprisingly tender moments hidden within the show's unforgettable lyrics.  Get ready to explore how Heathers uses language to skewer high school hierarchies, explore themes of power and conformity, and ultimately, ask: just how much is too much?  Whether you're a die-hard Heather or a newbie to Westerberg High, this episode is your ultimate guide to understanding the lyrical brilliance of this cult classic musical.  Don't forget your scrunchies and your croquet mallets – it's gonna be a killer episode!

End of MLL

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:28

today's episode contains some things that some listeners may find upsetting, including teen suicide and sexual assault, and for that reason audience discretion is advised hello and welcome to musical lyrical lingo.

Speaker 2 0:44

We're your hosts tim and lj.

Speaker 1 0:46

Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us. What on earth was that?

Speaker 2 0:53

Antoine.

Speaker 1 0:55

I like to mix it up.

Speaker 2 0:57

Have I replaced you with a robot?

Speaker 1 0:59

No, I just like to mix it up.

Speaker 2 1:01

Oh, is that what you're doing this year mixing it up?

Speaker 1 1:03

I'm going to keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2 1:05

Fantastic. Do you know what you should do, what you should say? It like a famous Broadway or West End diva, like each week, and I have to guess who you're being.

Speaker 1 1:16

Oh, challenge possibly accepted. Could you do that?

Speaker 3 1:20

That would be hilarious, and why don't you try it?

Speaker 2 1:28

Our executive producer's just broken his chair, oh dear. And you think things have improved from since last year?

Speaker 3 1:39

Not a bit of it.

Speaker 2 1:40

It's the same old. What I was saying before I was rudely interrupted by somebody falling off his chair. I wish he had fallen flat on the ground. I'd have been wet myself. We'd have had to stop the recording and he's now playing his phone and the music's coming through. You're fired Bye Two episodes.

Speaker 1 1:58

He did well, didn't he?

Speaker 2 2:01

Anyway what I was saying before I was rudely interrupted was you give it a go for like six weeks and then I could do it?

Speaker 1 2:08

Okay.

Speaker 2 2:09

I think it's terrible. Why did we not have this conversation in a meeting about series three?

Speaker 1 2:15

That's genius.

Speaker 2 2:16

See, all our genius comes live on air.

Speaker 1 2:19

You're not so sure, are you? We'll see how next week goes. We'll see how next week goes.

Speaker 2 2:23

I was inspired by your intro.

Speaker 1 2:26

Alright, okay, Well, anyway welcome back.

Speaker 2 2:29

How are you?

Speaker 1 2:30

Good, good back. How are you Good good?

Speaker 2 2:31

good. How are you? I'm not. How are you? In case any of our listeners don't know, we're from Northern Ireland. Without you, I'm all good. Yeah, I'm excited with what's happening in the world of musical theatre.

Speaker 1 2:45

Oh, Timothy, please tell us what your theatre news is this week.

Speaker 2 2:49

Okay, I've got two. Really, Timothy, please tell us what your theatre news is this week. Okay, I've got two really, really, really exciting ones. Oh Well, first one is that a musical adaptation of Nanning McPhee I know is heading to the West End in 2026.

Speaker 1 3:05

Oh, that's next year.

Speaker 2 3:06

Yeah, and Emma Thompson, the star of the film version, is steering the new production.

Speaker 1 3:13

Oh, it will be brilliant.

Speaker 2 3:14

I think so too.

Speaker 1 3:15

It will be brilliant. Isn't that exciting? That is exciting.

Speaker 2 3:17

I think so too we also have this isn't my second exciting one, oh, but I feel I need to mention it because we are fans. On the pod of Idina Menzel, yes, she's making her broadway return. A decade long hiatus from broadway is ending this year with the highly anticipated new musical redwood um, opening like this week. No hold on a time of recording.

Speaker 2 3:47

it opened last week oh, there we go, the 24th of january is when she's yeah, when it's opening. Redwood tells the story of jesse manziel um, a seemingly successful woman whose life takes an unexpected turn, leading her to seek solace in the northern california's majestic redwoods interesting sounds a bit boring for a musical to be quite honest with you, lauren. Ooh, hence not the exciting theatre news, but I thought oh, she's coming back.

Speaker 1 4:18

That's nice that she's back.

Speaker 2 4:20

It must have been our wicked movie kind of gave her the bug again. Yeah, I mean, she never went away. She just didn't do a Broadway musical for 10 years yeah. Anyway, more excitinglyly and I want to finish on this this week because I know you love it Alex Brightman and Sarah Chase will star in the world premiere of Schmigadoon. I'm so excited the musical version of the Apple TV Plus series opens in Washington this month. I think it'll be great.

Speaker 1 4:52

No, I haven't, but I think it will be great.

Speaker 2 4:58

I need to watch it first before I go to Washington to see it. I haven't watched it yet.

Speaker 1 5:02

I know you need to watch it. You've seen the first episode. I don't have Apple TV.

Speaker 2 5:06

I know.

Speaker 1 5:07

We don't have Apple TV either.

Speaker 2 5:09

Maybe if Apple.

Speaker 1 5:10

TV want to sponsor us, then we could watch it.

Speaker 2 5:12

Hilarious. How many times do? We need to mention it before they do.

Speaker 1 5:17

Here. Do you know what I wanted to talk to you about? How exciting is Death Becomes Her on Broadway.

Speaker 2 5:23

I know.

Speaker 1 5:24

So it had lots of trials in Chicago and now it is officially on Broadway and it's and you don't have TikTok, but the sound is all over TikTok.

Speaker 2 5:36

So I think I maybe need to join TikTok this year.

Speaker 1 5:38

Yeah, I think we should try doing the sound.

Speaker 2 5:41

Okay, let's do it.

Speaker 1 5:42

Yeah, we'll do that.

Speaker 2 5:43

Yes, and they have. I love how new musicals are now doing this. They don't drop the cast recording, they drop one or two tracks just to hook you, and I'm hooked by. I think they've only dropped three of the musical numbers. They are absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to hear the rest of the cast recording.

Speaker 1 6:03

And they are great. And also one final thing TikTok, sorry, social media has made its return on the find me, that's right for wonderful Dolly Parton oh, I thought it was Bert.

Speaker 2 6:17

I thought this was the final year that I would get my chance at being Bert.

Speaker 1 6:22

No, Dolly Parton is looking for somebody to play Dolly on Broadway so you can actually. I think you missed it. I think deadline was today. Oh, that's annoying. So I'm sorry, Timothy, you're not going to get the chance to play Dolly on Broadway.

Speaker 2 6:37

You see, you could have done the intro as Dolly Parton. I'd have guessed it, I think. Oh, okay, Also, I think are they trying to do that kind of maybe it's not through TikTok, but it's not through tiktok, but it's certainly through an open call. They're looking for the next marley mcfly. They are as an open auditioning process.

Speaker 3 7:02

Aaron, yes, clumsy as you might be, maybe you should give that a go.

Speaker 2 7:03

I'm just not ready for that type of rejection fair enough, and also you need to fix that arm.

Speaker 1 7:09

Armchair. Yeah, I know it's exciting though isn't it? It is exciting For a wee morning.

Speaker 2 7:15

I'm a bit too young for that role, I think at the moment.

Speaker 1 7:18

Do you know what I also? I have. I hope that you have seen it. I've shared it on our socials. It just is a little throwback to last week's episode on West Side Story. I forgot to mention it on our West Side Story. Have you ever watched? Cher do a one-man version of West Side Story what it's on the socials? So if you haven't watched it yet, watch it.

Speaker 2 7:38

Oh.

Speaker 1 7:39

It's hilarious.

Speaker 2 7:41

Okay, I will go and watch it and learn it and then perform it.

Speaker 1 7:46

Yeah, I actually do. You know what. On our next episode, I want to record you looking at it for the first time, so it might, okay, make that a wee video. Anyway, that's me done on to this week.

Speaker 2 7:55

Then on to this week, a bit of a modern modern one after last week's like epic west side story back in the day, we're kind of bringing it up to date we are 2019 is that. So this week we are looking at. It is a popular title. It's not one that I would say I'm a fan of. Oh really, no, I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to rush back. Okay, it's Heathers the Musical.

Speaker 1 8:26

It is Heathers the Musical, and that makes me a boring old fart.

Speaker 2 8:30

Well, no, because all of these young folk love Heathers.

Speaker 1 8:36

Yeah, Heathers is definitely has the oomph behind it because of fans. It is one of these ones that is being driven by the fans. Social media has definitely helped Heathers.

Speaker 2 8:50

Okay, and am I right in saying they're the corn nuts?

Speaker 1 8:53

Yes, they are the corn nuts, okay, so they are the corn nuts.

Speaker 2 8:56

Okay, so Heathers? The Musical is based on the cult 1989 hit that starred Winona Ryder and Christian Slater, written by Daniel Waters, isn't that right? Yeah, so welcome to Westerberg High, where popularity is a matter of life and death. And Veronica Sawyer is just another nobody dreaming of a better day. But when she's unexpectedly taken under the wing of three beautiful students and possibly cruel heathers, her dreams of popularity finally start to come true. Yeah, that's until JD turns up. The mysterious teen rebel suggests her and teaches her that it might kill to be a nobody, but it is murder being a somebody.

Speaker 1 9:46

Hmm, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's dark things in this.

Speaker 2 9:50

There is dark, things is dark things.

Speaker 1 9:52

Yes, it is like you said we will tread gently today yeah, there are. Um, yeah, there is a huge following for the 1989 film and that was actually winona rider and christian slater's very first movie. Really, yeah, it was. It was kind of like what catapulted them into stardom A big follow-in in the 80s.

Speaker 2 10:11

Full disclosure.

Speaker 1 10:12

I haven't seen the film. I think I have, but I'm not sure. I do remember whenever Mean Girls came out, I was like, or maybe I was told it's just Heathers, so there's similarities in Mean Girls and Heathers, Right, can I just?

Speaker 2 10:27

check on a really small tangent just while the burning question's in my head. So the front cover of the original cast recording has like is it croquet? Mallets or something, but I can't for the life of me remember in the version I saw on stage, which was a UK tour, at no point did a croquet mallet come out. So is that a film reference then?

Speaker 1 10:53

No, they play croquet just before Candy.

Speaker 2 10:56

Store. Okay, there you go. That's how closely I was watching it, and continue Okay there we go.

Speaker 1 11:01

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they do, because they've got them.

Speaker 2 11:06

I just don't recall that.

Speaker 1 11:07

Okay, I could have made it up, I was asleep.

Speaker 2 11:10

I was asleep very quickly.

Speaker 1 11:11

Oh, okay, so this did the musical's written by Lawrence O'Keefe, who wrote Legally Blonde and Batboy, yeah.

Speaker 2 11:19

Isn't that right? Or some call him Larry.

Speaker 1 11:22

O'Keefe, oh, larry, okay and Kevin Murphy. It started back as a workshop in 2009 with kirsten bell or christian bell sorry, christian christian bell and she was veronica. Then in 2010, it became a new york concert and I loved this fact. It starred jenna lee green and she played libby in the sabrina the teenage witch series and if anybody watched that, she was like the mean girl, so I love that. She's one of the Heathers, christian Lakin, who is from Step by Step, and then James Snyder, so if you are familiar with the likes of Sabrina the Teenage Witch, step by Step, boy Meets World and all of those shows from the 90s, all those names are famous, so I love all those, oh my goodness, like well done you for keeping up.

Speaker 2 12:15

Keeping up, yeah, because I just feel like a grander sitting here, because every single person you've just mentioned or every single show you've just mentioned, yeah, I have never heard of any of them but you never really watched a lot of tv whenever we were younger.

Speaker 1 12:30

Well, I did, and still do so anyway. Um, they were part of the 2010 new york concert. It then went off broadway in 2014 and then 2017. There was the uk workshop, where the additional song I say no is added and some edits to the second act were made and that initial workshop was um held at the other palace and it was just five sold out.

Speaker 1 12:56

Presentations like it was you know it wasn't an awful lot no, and then not that long, not that long, after we have it opened in 2018 in the other palace, starring carrie hope fletcher who's wonderful and the wonderful jamie moscato. Yes, um, now it was such a huge hit, as you said, from only having very few previews to then being open, it actually, uh, broke the website. Um, for the other palaces website, the day it went on sale there you go people were. I need to go see this I need to see this.

Speaker 2 13:35

Those corn nuts, they are quite a wild bunch. Yes, for musical theatre fans like they're, I feel like they're a different level of cult musical theatre fan than, say, some of the yeah, like the rent heads or you know like 100.

Speaker 1 13:56

It's the fans which are keeping heather's life. Okay, 100, 100. It did win a what's on stage award. Um, we don't always mention them, but they are big awards in theatre world, so, um, one of what's on stage award for best new musical and um, carrie hook fletcher did win for best actress yeah it returned then in 2021, which was post pandemic, so a lot of the songs um would be used on social media on tiktok, and it has then since then had several extensions yeah several it has been on tour.

Speaker 2 14:29

It has been in the other palace, out of the other palace back in it seems to have jumped between, because when it returned to the west end, it, it, it returned to both theater, royal haymarket again, after having been there previously, and then as again, as you say, at the other palace. A record-breaking season, the the Other Palace, we should say that the production right from the sold-out Los Angeles tryouts right up to off-Broadway West End. The director was the American filmmaker Andy Frickman.

Speaker 1 15:08

I don't think we've mentioned him yet.

Speaker 2 15:09

Sorry, no, it is quite interesting that it has been the same director that's come with it in all and that is kind of unique as well.

Speaker 1 15:20

But that maybe gives it that authenticity so that they're seeing the same thing across the water and I think the Corn, the corn nuts, are looking to see that version yes, the version, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 15:36

yeah, the production's also toured across the uk and ireland in 2021, 2023 and 2024, and on the 1st of september 2024, producers bill kenwright limited and paul taylor mill, who I think are also pivotal for keeping this juggernaut going they announced that the production would return to New York City this year. However, no more details have since come out about when, where, how.

Speaker 1 16:05

No, there has been a rumour this week that it's potentially September 25. Oh, okay, because the famous line in Heathers at the very beginning is Dear Diary 1st of September 1989.

Speaker 2 16:20

Yeah. So, Got you. That would be very cool if they could line it up for that it would, it would.

Speaker 1 16:26

But yeah, there was also the pro shot the film. They filmed it in 2022.

Speaker 2 16:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1 16:33

There's also a big connection between those that have appeared in Heathers and then move on to Six.

Speaker 2 16:40

Interesting.

Speaker 1 16:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:41

There's just a little like underground tunnel from the Heathers fan Heathers Arena into Six. Very good, listen. This high energy black comedy has been a massive hit with show fans despite its dark subject matters, including bullying, teen suicide, sexual assault and school violence. So we will tread gently, but just be aware that particularly when we get to our musical lyrical lingos, some of those subject matters may come up. Yeah, the London production did receive mixed reviews and reception from the critics and some flagged that some of those complex issues such as homosexuality, bulimia and suicide were kind of made light of for comic effect.

Speaker 1 17:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:31

Making parts of the show feel dated and uncomfortable for a 2018 audience. Yes, and I think that is really a fair comment. Okay, because I also think that's part of the reason I struggled with it a little bit.

Speaker 3 17:48

Fair.

Speaker 2 17:49

Because I went. None of this is nice, yeah, like, and don't get me wrong. Musicals are there to question the audience and to make the audience think and at times to make the audience feel uncomfortable, but done in an artistic way where it's powerful and impactful. I'm not so sure I'd get that from a Heathers Okay that's a fair point to make. Thank you, just my opinion, as always, on this podcast make.

Speaker 1 18:21

Thank you, um, I just my opinion. As always on this podcast, I do think that heathers has captured the 80s feel, feel to it okay, so I do whenever I listen to it or whenever I've watched it. I do get that these, this is how people were talking back in the 80s, um, and these subjects were spoke about this way and I can see that it's almost like in this little time capsule.

Speaker 1 18:42

So, I don't see it as me sitting in 2025 watching it. I can be like, okay, this is an 80s musical or 80s things, and this is how they talked Fair enough. And aren't we so glad that we don't have these conversations like that now. Yeah, of course I kind of see it that way.

Speaker 1 19:00

yeah, that's just me absolutely um, yeah, so like, yeah, we said it's very risky. I loved that. You said you think that the bill kenwright limited are a reason why there is a lot of love and pushing of this musical, because for me it has this similar feel to joseph yeah, where joseph is around and joseph is never going anywhere and joseph seems to just constantly be on a tour and popping up here there and everywhere, yeah and that, I do think, is what the bill kenwright company does very well.

Speaker 1 19:33

Yeah, gets its claws into something and it can market it and sort of you're going to like it type thing. It's constantly presented to you yeah and you go okay, yes, I'll just, I'll go watch it, I'll do that. A lot of heathers as well is iconic because of the colors. You've got your the veronica in blue, you've got your yellow, your red and your green of the heathers palette and that it is. You've got your jd all in black. You've got um, there's a visually it's.

Speaker 2 20:03

It can be done in a small theater yeah and then the costumes can kind of take over but I thought the set looked like it was made out of cardboard cutouts okay oh right, we really don't have a lot of love for this.

Speaker 1 20:17

I'm just being, I just can't, I did I went and I was underwhelmed.

Speaker 2 20:21

Okay, um, I think it needed a little bit more musical theater pizzazz do you know what I mean because it's in your face, like, do you know what I mean? So I just felt it was rough and ready around the edges. However, I do feel there's an element of that's what they're wanting.

Speaker 1 20:40

Yeah, I agree, do you?

Speaker 2 20:41

know what I mean, so it just wasn't for me. Shall we move on to what we've learned.

Speaker 1 20:47

Yeah, okay. What about our musical lyrical lingos? So, the very first song. As I've said, it opens with Dear Dari, and that song is called Beautiful. Yeah, and we have the word discernible.

Speaker 2 21:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:02

Yeah, which means something is understandable and easy to perceive.

Speaker 2 21:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:07

And then this is when Veronica is mentioning and introducing the Heathers, like who they are, and then she says that's Heather Chandler. She's a mythic bitch that is very true that's also my nickname in some circles who refers?

Speaker 2 21:27

let me out then who refers to you in such a way do you know?

Heathers

Speaker 1 21:32

that used to be my mother's ringtone for me, that song, what I'm a bitch, I know, hilarious anyway. Um yeah, and just the fact that she you know, you know those popular girls at school or there's popular people, so I just love that she was described as a mythic bitch yeah, it's like I kind of sometimes wonder how many films or musicals can rewrite the same narrative using different ways.

Speaker 2 22:00

Like I mean, heathers are the mean girls yeah, do you know what I mean. It's quite interesting. Yeah, yeah, beautiful is the opening number setting the stage and highlighting the worst parts of the high school and its characters. The song does have to, some might say, have a colorful collection of words to introduce. Um, lots of different put-downs and bullying language, including names, just to name a few, such as freak slut, burnout, bug eyes, poser, lord, ass loser and short bus. I mean great start to a musical.

Speaker 2 22:34

Now that last one short bus is actually. I just feel very uncomfortable with all this. It's actually a derogatory term for a special ed student, as they would typically be transported to school on a separate short and length school bus.

Speaker 1 22:50

Yeah, what horrible children.

Speaker 2 22:52

I know.

Speaker 1 22:52

So in Beautiful, veronica is talking about how everybody went to school together, you know, like from grade school, which would be like our primary school, and now they're in senior year and they're just horrible. They're just everybody is horrible to each other. So then the chorus are kind of like chiming in with everything that they would call All these insults. You know, and it isn't nice, and you know, some people do have a horrible time at school and some people have a lovely time at school.

Speaker 2 23:20

so, um, I mean, I wouldn't say mine was a walk in the park, would you? Would you? What would you say of yourself?

Speaker 1 23:26

no, you're all right I was, I was okay I do no, I was not a someone.

Speaker 2 23:35

I was a someone I. That is not true, mr head boy yeah, it took me to get double sex before I had notoriety and fame. What took them so bloody long? No, anyway, so I think it could stir up some. You know, yeah, um, veronica also says welcome to my school. This ain't no high school.

Speaker 1 23:54

This is the thunderdome. Hold your breath and count the days. It could stir up some you know.

Speaker 2 23:56

Yeah. Veronica also says Welcome to my school. This ain't no high school, this is the Thunderdome. Hold your breath and count the days if we're graduating soon yeah. And that Thunderdome was actually a reference to the 1985 film Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, and it serves as a rough and tumble arena where those who lose the fight suffer.

Speaker 1 24:18

There we go. She says they're solid teflon this is her talking about the heathers and teflon is ptfe, but teflon is a brand name used to create non-stick, waterproof and non corrosive surfaces. There you go, interesting, so they're hard as nails. No matter what you say to the heathers, they're not going to go cry in the corner because they're probably the ones saying all the nasty things to you?

Speaker 2 24:50

Yeah, that was me, I just went.

Speaker 1 24:52

Hmm.

Speaker 3 24:53

It's because it's non-stick, non-stick, yeah.

Speaker 2 24:55

Non-stick.

Speaker 3 24:56

Non-stick yeah non-stick.

Speaker 2 24:56

None of the insults stick yeah yeah there you go um. Another character that we're introduced to in beautiful is martha uh dunstall yeah, veronica's best friend yeah, at the beginning is veronica's best friend and there's a lovely dialogue between them where martha says, uh, we on for movie night and Veronica replies yeah, you're on the Jiffy Pop detail. Jiffy Pop was a popular popcorn that was meant to be popped on the stovetop in your house.

Speaker 1 25:30

Yeah, so in like.

Speaker 3 25:34

Scary Movie have you never seen that.

Speaker 2 25:36

I just bought yeah and Scream and stuff.

Speaker 1 25:38

Scream yeah and they put it on yeah, but we popcorn like that was. That's a real American thing, is it? Aye, we just buy ready-made popcorn. We just buy ready-made popcorn. We're lazy. Some might say lazy. Or do it in a microwave, if you believe in them.

Speaker 2 25:55

Now, interestingly, the first interaction Veronica has with these heathers is in the bathroom and they're all out of class and the teacher comes in basically to tell them off and give them detention. But Veronica's quite good at like forging, like notes and stuff. So to try and get in with the heathers because her thing is, if I can just sit with them at lunchtime for one day, then all these other people might actually give me a break yeah I might leave me alone.

Speaker 2 26:28

Um might go. Oh look, she's sitting with the heathers. She must be kind of?

Speaker 1 26:32

yeah, because her thing is she's just wanting to get through school, she wants to just get into, you know, an ivy league school or something like that, and then just leave all this, these horrible high school people, behind yeah, so on her um writing that forge.

Speaker 2 26:47

Uh, like hall pass isn't it um where heather says this is an excellent forgery who are you? And veronica says oh, a veronicayer, I crave a boon. And Heather says what boon? And it was the boon that confused me.

Speaker 3 27:05

A boon or a boon.

Speaker 2 27:11

A boon is a favor or a request particularly granted by a higher power, and it kind of just shows the power, the mythic that naughty word, that godly status that the Heathers have.

Speaker 1 27:21

But I've never heard of boon before. No, I've never heard of it either until Heathers interesting.

Speaker 2 27:25

Interesting indeed.

Speaker 1 27:28

Next. Yeah well, I think your song comes next.

Speaker 2 27:31

My song is and it's actually, interestingly, the first song I heard from the show Candy Store Very popular song Very popular.

Speaker 1 27:38

I don't like the first song I heard from the show Candy Store.

Speaker 2 27:40

Yeah, Very popular song, very popular. I don't like young, young girls like.

Speaker 1 27:45

No, this is also a thing, performing it. You know, if people are singing songs for grades, for auditions, they need to be age appropriate. Yes, so you need to realise that these are 17, 18 year old people and you should not be singing these songs unless you are over the age of 17.

Speaker 2 28:06

So we'll maybe get on to that later in the episode with the whole age appropriateness of this show. But in Candy Store it's the three Heathers basically telling the audience a bit more about themselves. Really, isn't that like what we are and how we work and yeah.

Speaker 1 28:22

So basically, veronica is now she's not one of the heathers, but she's sort of with them and they have now said okay, we want you to do something. And they have asked her to write a letter, um, to her best friend, martha, pretending that it is from Rab, this boy that she is in love with. And Veronica doesn't want to do it because she does know how much Martha is in love with him. And so she's like came in and they said well, if you don't want to do it, go away. Like you know, you cannot be part of our trio. And veronica is like, oh, but I, I need this fame yeah, and that's the thing they sing.

Speaker 2 29:06

Honey, what you waiting for. Welcome to my candy store. And a candy store could refer to being a sort of safe haven in which you can have everything you ever wanted, although it could also be a place filled with addiction and decay, which kind of comes their way. Yeah, and while the promise of all the treats that come with status is tempting and very attractive to an outsider, all that sugar will rot veronica's moral compass yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 29:38

I I see candy store as a temptation yeah um, and they are tempting her a bit like the child catcher does um clever with the different number of layers within that song and the underlying meaning and why it was a candy store.

Speaker 2 29:53

that because you know on first hearing it yeah, really catchy tune, Fantastic. But why?

Speaker 3 30:00

Candy.

Speaker 2 30:01

Store.

Speaker 1 30:01

Why was it that yeah?

Speaker 2 30:03

And it makes so much more sense when you put it in the grand scheme of the musical and the plot line that they're following. It is clever. Yeah, there are some you know lyrics and some songs that are really clever and beautifully written songs Like it is good just as a whole show.

Speaker 1 30:22

Yeah, no, that's fair, that's fair. Yeah, I think Candy Store is brilliant. It's one of those ones that kind of gets stuck in your, your brain. There's some key moments of it as well, like shut up, heather, you know when the other Heather takes over and she's like, pushes her out of the way and goes shut up heather yeah, um, and that is a big, that shut up heather is a big um thing, um, and that was certainly the first half of the the show but is that a?

Speaker 2 30:51

is that a movie thing as well? Was that like a catchphrase?

Speaker 1 30:54

I'm not sure I'm not sure I don't think I don't. To be honest, I don't think I have seen it.

Speaker 2 30:59

Right, okay, fair.

Speaker 1 30:59

Yeah, so next in the song list is Freeze your Brain.

Speaker 2 31:05

Yeah, so at any point, did you think you'd ever come across a musical theatre song about a slush puppy? No, okay, Heather's, ladies and gentlemen. Heathers, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 31:16

Heathers. It just goes to show that we're actually a musical about anything.

Teenagers Discuss American Cultural References

Speaker 2 31:20

You literally can, literally can. If you had to write a musical theatre number about a household object, what would it be?

Speaker 1 31:29

Oh my goodness, a household object. Um, I'm I'm not sure, what would you?

Speaker 2 31:39

mine would be a coffee press oh, interesting, interesting, I do a toaster then toaster yeah, nice okay so freeze your brain before we freeze each other so um veronica uh meets jd.

Speaker 1 31:53

Jd's a new boy in time, um one of those mysterious ones, and um they they end up chatting, they.

Speaker 2 32:03

Um she can see that he's a little bit quiet and troubled and she's definitely attracted to this sort of mysterious, like I mean, he is dressed in all black and is wearing a big, long black trench coat and I think on the casting criteria for the role needs to look cute. Yeah, yeah, you know, no, munter has been cast as a jd yet no, yeah.

Speaker 1 32:31

So he definitely sort of she's like oh, I've got this, like he has his positives, yeah, anyway, he ends up singing about the fact and it's actually quite a sad song whenever you look at it, because it shows that he talks about how his dad always has two suitcases packed. He's ready to go. Mum is no longer around, but the one thing that he feels safe and secure around because he's never going to stick at a school, so there's no point learning names and all of that. But the things that are the same are the 7-Elevens, yes, which are like for us, like a spa or something like that, something that you walk into, you kind of you know where the biscuits are, you know where the bread is. They're not going to change.

Speaker 2 33:11

But that was my musical lyrical lingo. I didn't know what a 7-Eleven was.

Speaker 1 33:16

Oh, okay, so you've never had what he's drinking.

Speaker 2 33:19

No. Okay, I have a big slash, and you see, this is the thing that we discover quite often in this podcast, because you have obviously done America and you've done it a couple of times, yeah, and I have done New York, but once or maybe two or three times when I was much younger, like I had no idea that this 7-Eleven was like these big convenience stores across America.

Speaker 1 33:46

Now, I don't want you to think that they're like big convenience, they're like your spa, but a lot of interesting characters hang outside them. Oh really.

Speaker 1 33:56

So they're not somewhere you're going to go by yourself or late at night, but there is um 50 000 of them worldwide in in 18 countries yeah, they're open 24 hours a day 11, not, you know, 7 11 yeah, yeah, you know they're open late at night as well, but yes, you would get an awful lot of interesting characters hanging around the front of 7-elevens oh, that's interesting. Okay, yeah, okay so it's interesting that that's where he feels at home, because it wouldn't be, it's not. You're not walking into asda tk max or something like that, you're walking into a dodgy little oh, you're really selling it, lauren. Wow, yeah, it is a convenience store, but you know other people choose to shop there.

Speaker 2 34:44

Is there that many dodgy people around that they need that many of many 7-Elevens.

Speaker 1 34:50

Yeah, it's not just for the dodgy people. You know what I'm saying, right.

Speaker 2 34:56

But you're just selling it really well that I would never want to step foot in a 7-Eleven well, I have, because I do like the slushies.

Speaker 1 35:05

Sorry, ep wants to say something.

Speaker 3 35:06

Ep's gonna help us here. You're fine until it gets dark and some of the places we're going especially those areas, right, tourists and stuff like that that it's like I don't want to get sued, but I was going to say it's like crackheads going to a light at night. Do you know what I mean? Okay, sometimes you're people who may be drinking too much, taking other narcotics or whatever, and just going somewhere where there's people about and there's light and they feel safe, grab something to eat and just get their munchies. So it's a 7-Eleven Sam.

Speaker 1 35:38

Yes. So this is interesting, that JD feels comfortable there and he mentions the linoleum floor, which is, thank you, pvc or linoleum, the linoleum aisles that I love to get lost in, yeah. And I think we also hear that in ah, the musicals escape me, mother green plant little shop of horrors, yeah but anyway, what did you have from freeze your brain, apart from 7-11's?

Speaker 2 36:11

just what it was, and also, with that many stores, jd is never going to be far from another sugar hit because the thing is at the stores. I pray at my altar of slush, so he's after a blooming slush pop out, hence the song. Interestingly, in the cult film the store was actually called the Snappy Snack Snack. Oh, as they had to change the name due to not being granted permission to set the scene in a 7-Eleven but the musical however, honoured the source material as it was a 7-Eleven store in the original screenplay, but then they didn't get permission very good.

Speaker 1 36:55

That's an interesting fact. Thank you, thank you full of them. Yeah, there's a song called that's my last one, I don't have any more. There's a song called Big Fun and this is a big house party. Yes, and this kind of does terrify me that my children are slowly growing up and I'm like, ah, house parties, we don't like them to a house party, oh no definitely not definitely not, and this one in heather's is oh wild, a bit like in mean girls. There's the big house party, um, so yeah, there's definitely similarities.

Speaker 2 37:31

Like you've got some cheek talking about house parties. What, um? I was at a house party back in the day At your house and I forward rolled down your stairs.

Speaker 1 37:43

But we also were in our 20s.

Analyzing Themes in Heathers Musical

Speaker 2 37:45

You can't go there With house parties Like I. Forward rolled down your stairs Out of a house party.

Speaker 1 37:51

Yes, but we weren't 17.

Speaker 2 37:54

I know and do you know what Not a broken bone? I know Carrying on, I can't believe I shared that she pushed me. I know and you know what, not a broken bone.

Speaker 1 38:01

I know, I know, carry on, I can't believe I shared that.

Speaker 2 38:03

I know I was pushed, she pushed me.

Speaker 1 38:04

Obviously, this musical is very American, I didn't deny it she didn't deny it, very, very American and American.

Speaker 2 38:12

In Big Fun they talk about going to third base, so there's always I never understood those third base is sexual fun below the waist but I think also the fact she says I think that third base shows how naive she was because, kissing's just second base right, yeah, see, not quite there yet, veronica calm down in the song our love is god and this is my last one he says um.

Speaker 1 38:38

So at this point, there has been a lot of death, a lot of murder yeah um, which has been passed off as um suicide, and he says don't worry um, we will use these bullets. They're called ich lurch and my daughter, who's doing german, would probably be going. You've not said that, right I?

Speaker 2 38:59

I feel you did quite well there.

Speaker 1 39:01

Okay, it's German, for I lie, and whenever I looked that up, it actually is just a reference from the 1989 film, so he mentions it then.

Speaker 2 39:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:11

In the film about using these bullets. She thinks that they're fake rubber bullets that he's going to shoot the two jocks with. Yeah, but it turns out that they are real.

Speaker 2 39:21

Doesn't he say that the bullets were used? In World War 2 and is that factual or did he make that up?

Speaker 1 39:30

it's a story he's made up because that's what I was looking to see, if that part is true, but no, it just all kept coming back to Heathers the film, so it's just back to heather's yeah film. So um, it's just something that he that he says, so um, yeah, that means, I lie in german there you go um, that's heather's, that is heather, so listen.

Speaker 2 39:49

I know some of our listeners do when we've talked about the musical. Go and listen to the musical. So just be, just be mindful of some of the themes or some of the issues that are addressed in the soundtrack. We haven't talked in depth about a lot of them just because we don't want to do that in our podcast, but we know if you do go and listen to the soundtrack, you will hear an awful lot more, so just be mindful of that. Yeah, and if you do the Pro to the soundtrack, you will hear an awful lot more, so just be mindful of that.

Speaker 1 40:20

Yeah, and if you do, the pro shot is on amazon prime. Yeah, um, it is great to do watch it, but do watch it and maybe make sure that if you're not quite of that age, um, don't be watching it without parental.

Speaker 2 40:34

Let's talk about of age. Mm-hmm. Whose idea was it then to have a school version?

Speaker 1 40:44

I don't understand. This is the same with the school version of Chicago, a school version of Miss Saigon, a school version of just very hard-hitting.

Speaker 2 40:53

And listen. I get it with the school versions Obviously these school versions, because I do them in my school. They're a condensed version of the show you know most of them are supposed to be like almost done in one act. Yeah, yeah, and they take out certain scenes and certain things, but like if they were to take everything out, that wasn't yeah you know that was sensitive from heather, so we didn't have much of a show left.

Speaker 1 41:18

I know it is. Yeah, it's difficult.

Speaker 2 41:19

I'm not sure how and the reason they did like a school version was the outcry of interest from students that wanted to do it, and I'm going. I would love to read a perusal copy of the school version just to see what exactly is included yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 1 41:41

I don't know what they could take, but I do I do think that the popularity has come from using the signs in tiktok and obviously we haven't quite mentioned her. But hannah lother is a massive um west end star. She is currently just finishing her contract with Six, but she did star in a production of Heathers and she was the very first performer to perform all three Heathers.

Speaker 2 42:06

She was understudied. Oh, that's very cool yeah.

Speaker 1 42:08

So that is pretty cool. Other people have gone on to do it since, including Carly I've forgotten her second name who did play Linda in the recent Blood Brothers tour production. But Hannah Lothar has been the first one and she has this massive following and a lot of people do love Heathers because of her and love the pro shot and love seeing where she pops up because she's just in the course. But yeah, what about your stand-in-o's?

Speaker 2 42:37

My stand-in-o-vation is, strangely, the one number that was added to the show after it opened in London or it was opening in London called. I Say no, and it amazes me that it wasn't in the show already.

Speaker 1 42:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 42:57

Because I actually think it is the most powerful number in the show already, because I actually think it is the most powerful number in the show. It's when actually Veronica goes. No, enough's enough. You know addressed at all. You know the Heathers and everybody, but mostly JD, and how he's coercively manipulated her within their relationship to do these heinous things that they've done together and she's gone. No, you actually won't use me as a pawn in your game anymore. You cannot treat people like this.

Speaker 1 43:34

You cannot treat me like this, and it just blows my mind that that powerful number wasn't in it yeah, and you know credit where credit's due carrie hope fletcher is brilliant yeah, and they actually had to release that as a single because people were, because it wasn't on um any recordings anywhere, you know, until the original gas recording came out.

Speaker 2 43:52

It's fantastic that and 17 you know, I think 17 is a beautiful song. True as well.

Speaker 1 44:00

I agree. I love 17. I do love. I Will Never Shut Up Again. I will never shut up again. I just think it's got a great wee beat to it and I do love Dead Girl Walking, obviously whenever you first listen to it. You're like okay, and then you know you're like I've only got one more night on this planet because Heather Chandler is going to kill me. What will I do? I know I'll sneak into my boyfriend's bedroom through the window and I'm just going to make him remove his tighty-whities.

Speaker 2 44:36

Like yeah, I think she says and ride you till I break you.

Speaker 1 44:39

Well, she does horrific she. Why would anybody?

Speaker 2 44:42

go and see a musical where that is one of the lyrics. Call me a prude, but come on um, yeah, and there's some.

Speaker 1 44:53

There are some very um catchy iconic lines, like sometimes I will find myself just going Heather.

Speaker 2 45:00

Heather no yes, listened Musically. It's catchy. Yeah, like the tunes are catchy.

Speaker 1 45:08

Yeah, I just think the themes are very heavy.

Speaker 2 45:10

And I think could have been handled better, I think, or written better, I don't know. And also the teacher, like what the flip is that character about? She's happy, isn't she? Yeah, that one written better, I don't know.

Speaker 1 45:19

And also the teacher. Like what the flip is that character about? She's a hippie, isn't she?

Speaker 2 45:21

yeah, that one, yeah, yeah it's very stereotypical, like every character is stereotypical of the character you know, like hippies, jocks, mean girl, cool girls. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 45:35

it's interesting. It is interesting, but yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting, but yeah, it's not for me. Don't laugh, catchy tunes.

Speaker 2 45:40

Every so often I'll sing candy store as I'm getting ready in the bathroom. Welcome to my candy store.

Speaker 1 45:46

Yeah, I do think that song's so catchy time for you to prove you're not a loser anymore, so step into my candy store it's my candy store it's my candy, it's my candy store.

Speaker 2 46:00

It's my candy store. It's my candy, it's my candy store boom, there we go. That was, that was great there to be fair, the beginning of beautiful is actually kind of cool too musically yeah, and it does remind me of something else.

Speaker 1 46:13

You know that like shout night, but I can never remember what it is. It's a very high school musical. It's that it kind of reminds.

Speaker 2 46:21

It's like an extreme high school musical. Yeah 19 years ago today, high school musical came out.

Speaker 1 46:30

Yeah, maybe that's what it is. Anyway, there we go. Anyway, that is our.

Speaker 2 46:35

That's for our cool, hip and young listeners.

Speaker 1 46:41

Yeah.

Speaker 3 46:41

Next week we're doing.

Speaker 1 46:44

Back to an oldie.

Speaker 2 46:46

A golden oldie.

Speaker 1 46:49

So now we've come to our part of what Would Patty Do? What Would?

Speaker 2 46:53

Patty, do Our new feature for 2025.

Speaker 1 46:56

We're loving it.

Speaker 2 46:57

We're loving it. Yeah, and it's your turn this week. For me, so, and it's, it's your turn this week.

Speaker 1 47:00

It's my turn this week and I'm gonna ask you has been on the call on the phone.

Speaker 2 47:04

What would patty do?

Speaker 1 47:05

agent has been on the call. What would patty do and I'm keeping it, linking it from um our episode last week as well. So would you, um rather deliver the fairy america from West Side Story or steal the show with iconic Rose's turn from Gypsy?

Speaker 2 47:23

Oh my goodness, that's not even like Rose's turn from.

Speaker 1 47:27

Gypsy there we go.

Speaker 2 47:29

Just like Patty, I want the standing ovation at the end of the number, just like Patty or Imelda Staunton or the many who have done it.

Speaker 1 47:38

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely it.

Speaker 2 47:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 47:41

Definitely.

Speaker 2 47:42

Definitely 1,000%.

Speaker 1 47:44

And getting like, really like.

Speaker 2 47:46

Also, I'm on the stage on my own at that point.

Speaker 1 47:49

Yeah, all eyes are on you.

Speaker 2 47:50

With just my name in like light bulbs behind me.

Speaker 3 47:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1 47:55

Timmy, you can see it now that's what you practice in your bathroom, you see when I do my one man show.

Speaker 2 48:15

That is my 11 o'clock number.

Speaker 1 48:18

I will be front row just watching.

Speaker 2 48:23

Yeah, love it, love it and then I have the breakdown on stage which comes at the end of the number. Perfect, I am away to dream of my roses turn you do that and you will do it very well until next week. Bye.