Musical Lyrical Lingo
We're Musical Lyrical Lingo!
Join Tim and Lj who delve deep into the wonderful world of musical theatre and more importantly the lessons they have learned from different musicals.
Join them as they explore some of the greatest musicals ever created, from the classics to the new and exciting shows that continue to teach us something new.
So whether you're a seasoned fan of the stage or a newcomer, this podcast is for you.
So sit back, relax and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of musical theatre.
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Musical Lyrical Lingo
Chess: Cold War Politics on a Black and White Board
What happens when ABBA's songwriters team up with Tim Rice to create a musical about Cold War chess champions? A fascinating collision of politics, strategy, and forbidden love that's been captivating audiences since 1984.
Our latest episode explores Chess, the rock musical that gave us chart-topping hits like "I Know Him So Well" and "One Night in Bangkok." We unpack the show's complex development history, from its concept album beginnings to its West End success and Broadway struggles. Discover how the storyline draws from real-life chess champions Bobby Fischer, Viktor Korchnoi, and Anatoly Karpov, transforming their Cold War rivalry into a dramatic love triangle that plays out against international tensions.
Why does Chess rank seventh in the BBC's poll of essential musicals despite never achieving the long-term theatrical success of other shows? We dive into the show's remarkable music - exploring how Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus blended their signature ABBA sound with rock elements to create a score that often works better in concert format than full productions. From the stirring patriotism of "Anthem" to the raw emotion of "Pity the Child," we celebrate what makes these songs enduring classics in the musical theatre canon.
Whether you're a chess enthusiast, an ABBA fan, or simply love powerful musical storytelling, this episode offers fresh insights into a show that continues to fascinate audiences worldwide. With a potential Broadway revival on the horizon, Chess might finally be positioned to achieve the checkmate it deserves in musical theatre history. Listen now and discover why this musical remains such a compelling meditation on how, in both chess and politics, every move has consequences.
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Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts, Tim and LJ.
Speaker 2:Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us.
Speaker 1:And you can tell the video is on, with all your hand actions and your nod of the head.
Speaker 2:There you were like go go, because you started really lively and I was like, oh, he's putting some, oh, really did. I yeah, you were like.
Speaker 1:It's just me. So I was like, oh, I'm going to up it. Was I more uppity than I normally am in the intro?
Speaker 2:I felt like you were.
Speaker 1:I question that.
Speaker 2:Okay, maybe it was just your deep breath, and then I was like, oh, he's doing something different, I need to do something different.
Speaker 1:Maybe I've been working on my breath control Underwater.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we're back.
Speaker 1:We are back, all good.
Speaker 2:Yes, all good. It's been a very busy week filled with theatre in my house.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you're working 9 to 5 or 10 to half 11. It doesn't fit in the song. Anyway, yes, you had a wee jaunt away, didn't you? We did, and I can't wait to talk about it. What did you do?
Speaker 2:We went to Dublin.
Speaker 1:The dub.
Speaker 2:Belly of the Clyde. I think I said that right, and we went and watched Book of Mormon.
Speaker 1:Very good. So you have seen it and I am seeing it in a couple of weeks' time. Is it good? I loved it. Okay good, so we're in for a good show, are we yeah?
Speaker 2:absolutely. I was like shocked at the amount of people that filled the board gosh at 2.30pm on a Friday afternoon. I was like do none of these people have jobs, as I'm sitting there at the exact same time?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, practice what you preach, love. It's okay for me to be here, but why are you here?
Speaker 2:And you know what I loved? It was a real range of people.
Speaker 1:Very good.
Speaker 2:Which I love that. I love when you go to theatre and because we kind of noticed when we went to see Mean Girls and me that it was a very young crowd.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it was really Mixed Really mixed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you haven't seen it live before, have you? So you've only heard the soundtrack, yeah, yeah. Okay, it was Were you shocked?
Speaker 2:No, okay.
Speaker 1:You knew what was coming, did you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll talk about it whenever we do that episode. Like my thing, it was a Christmas present for my dad and Aaron, so I was just more worried I wanted them to enjoy it yeah. South Park would be on in our house.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, Well, more importantly, let's ask the man himself EP Aaron, did you like it? Oh, he gave a wavy, shaky hand. He wasn't sure. I was almost sure you would have liked it. I know that's quite interesting.
Speaker 2:We'll leave it until we do our Black. Mormon episode. But you know what he did, say what? And it actually made my heart flutter. It just didn't beat Back to the Future.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Isn't that so good, so I was like I was kind of okay with that reaction.
Speaker 1:That's fair, that is fair, I got him. Good stuff, right, well, I will go and see it, and then I presume we'll do it on the pod. Then, yes as well stuff, right, well, I will go and see it, and then I presume we'll do it on the pod. Then it's Book of Warming is one that we've talked about from season one, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. I love it. I love the music, I love it.
Speaker 1:Me too. Yeah, looking forward to that. What do you think of the Borgos? It's awfully big.
Speaker 2:I love it. It's amazing like it there. I think it's a great theatre.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen a couple of things, and one of them I think I saw Kinky Bits there and it was a good seat in the stalls and you could see everything. It was great. But then I saw, was it Saigon there? And I was too far away. They were like dots. Do you know what I mean? They were like wee pinpricks on a cushion.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I was fortunate enough I got almost exactly the same seats as I had for Wicked.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I kind of knew that they were good seats, yeah, yeah, I wonder if he had seats further back or higher up Maybe they aren't, or even those ones at the side, the wee slip ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but there you go. Yeah On to other theatre news this week. Are you fans of Stranger Things in here?
Speaker 2:I'm not.
Speaker 1:You're not, but Aaron's nodding. He's not giving the wobbly hand, he's nodding. So there is a documentary Stranger Things behind the curtain the First Shadow coming to Netflix. So it's a Netflix documentary that documents the lead up to the world premiere of the Stranger Things play that was in London's Phoenix Theatre in December 23. So it's coming to Netflix on the 15th of April.
Speaker 2:Loads of people ranted and raved about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's starring a local boy. It is me. So he is now on Broadway about it. Yeah, and it's starring a local boy Mm-hmm, it is me. And so who is now on Broadway? Janet, I know it's so weird how, like, certain people's lives get plucked and like become like a big thing, like that girl, alicia Weir, from you know down south, who was like Matilda. Now she's like in all's, in all these massive big films. It's lovely, it is very cool. Yeah, so that's happening. Stranger Things Carry a Cake Across New York that's one of those shows that's now on my radar.
Speaker 2:Stranger Things, Carry a Cake Across.
Speaker 1:New York. Oh God, two strangers, two strangers, stranger. But do you see what I did there? Yes, you were very good and I tried to be clever and link my theatre news and I've just totally failed.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it's alright.
Speaker 1:In ten months there'll be a Stranger Things character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there will be.
Speaker 1:So Two Strangers carrying cake across New York, as I was saying, it's one of those ones I'd love to see. It's pricked my interest over the last year or two. It has just announced its casting for the show's North American premiere and it's starring Sam Tuddy, who played in London. I think that's a really interesting choice. Not choice because he's great, he's great in everything, but the fact was he's great.
Speaker 2:He's great in everything but the fact that he's he's kind of making his like American debut yeah, as well, but you know I, kind of listen to that cast recording a lot as well, since you introduced me to it you like it, I love it yeah he's kind of made that role his and it's not, you know, and if he's still able to do it and it, you know it wasn't like. It's not like Evan Hansen where he's maybe grown up a wee bit so he can't go on tour or something, yeah, perfect yeah, it's very cool.
Speaker 1:I was just quite surprised, because you just expect to see American casting, don't you? I was like, oh, sam Tuddy's in it alongside Christiane Pitts, I think is how you say her name. She was in king kong and the bronx tale, yes, so that's quite exciting. And then, to finish off, because you mentioned already wicked, uh, so the wicked film has now now topped the charts at the US highest grossing film of 2024, earning 56.9 million.
Speaker 2:And they have just released a new image for good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's exciting. And then popular pair Emma Kingston and ZZ Strallon have now opened in the West End as the new Elphaba and Glinda respectively. They opened from the 25th of March and that show, Wicked, is entering its 19th year in the Apollo Victoria Theatre, isn't that? Yeah, it's crazy. I remember seeing it a couple of times.
Speaker 2:Crazy as well that it's been going in the same theatre for so long. Like Lime is probably the only one and obviously it's not in its original theatre anymore, but like there's not very many and the Mousetrap.
Speaker 1:That's it, and the only shows I've ever seen in that theatre were Starlight Express and Wicked. Really, yeah, yeah, I've seen nothing else in there yeah, that's probably me too yeah, because it seems to be one of those venues that just always had very long running musicals. Do you know what I mean? Like Starlight Express was there for years. Yeah, looking forward this. When am I going to see it Sunday? This Sunday, I will be seeing this. Looking forward this. When am I going to see it Sunday? This Sunday, I will be seeing.
Speaker 1:This Sunday yeah.
Speaker 2:That's exciting.
Speaker 1:Seeing Starlight. Express and the Troubadour. I can't wait to hear what you think of it. Yes, I know I can't wait. I will definitely come back and give you the rundown. Yeah, you know me, I can't hold my water. I'm excited. Shall told my water. I'm excited, Shall we move on to this week then? Now you as in what we're doing this week.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but I mean like there was also a really big TV event on.
Speaker 1:Oh, but we can't talk about the Olivier's because you haven't watched them.
Speaker 2:I mean we can.
Speaker 1:We can just say like it was really great, but you don't know if it was really great you could be talking, you could be getting it all completely wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, let me ask you did you enjoy the Olivier's?
Speaker 1:I did enjoy the Olivier's.
Speaker 2:What did you think of their choices for performances? So there, was MJ there was KS.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? You see, this MJ thing. I'm just not interested. And now me too, and you'll watch the performance. I was like, why, why, why is that what you've chosen to show at the Olivier's? Like I just don't get what the hype is. Anyway, hey-ho, it didn't win Best Musical, but do you not find that?
Speaker 2:Do you not find? Remember, like when it was Oklahoma, do you not find? They sometimes choose weird sections of musicals to showcase at the Olivier's Oklahoma. Do you know what's fine? Don't Go there. They sometimes choose weird sections of musicals to showcase that feeling of yours.
Speaker 1:And it's the same as Starlight Express. Starlight Express did a bit and they did. I am the starlight like a two-hander. I'd have had them all flying around the place. Maybe health and safety, maybe health and safety. Titanic was great. I thought their section was fab. They opened a number, actually with Beverly Knight and Billy Porter. It was very good. What else was there? I'm trying to remember. It was a bit like not A lot of. It was not very memorable, but then it's on so blooming late that I was falling asleep for half of it. To be honest with you, it was lovely that my good friend Imelda Staunton won her fifth Olivier Award for her Hello, dolly because she was thoroughly deserving, but as were all of those girls. To be quite honest with you, do you know what annoyed me? What? Leighton Williams? He won an Olivier for actor in supporting role.
Speaker 1:Right, it wasn't even televised yeah and I was just like that's really poor, like that's really poor this is what I don't understand about the Olivier's.
Speaker 2:I do understand why it can't be on live yeah like we've got, like the national television awards and all our life like there's plenty of awards or even with the 10 minute time delay where you can make any editing changes you need to make.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? If somebody decides to strip down butt naked, then at least you have 10 minutes to do something about it and not televise it live. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, it was a bit of a meh.
Speaker 2:And there still was no category for wigs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and makeup, and makeup and all that yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because theatre can't happen without those wonderful people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a thousand percent. However, it has made me want to go and see Benjamin Button.
Speaker 2:Yes, but that I felt that from the Big Night at Musicals, the Big Night at Musicals.
Speaker 1:Yes, national Lottery's concert one yeah, so, yeah. So that's why I wasn't really going to talk about it, because you have been working nine to five, ten to eleven, um, 24 hours a day. Um, I have that. You haven't watched it yet, which is a shocking considering you do a musical theatre podcast. But, yes, we'll move on.
Speaker 2:I've seen in that time frame I've also seen three musicals, so you know.
Speaker 1:Okay, is this a competition?
Speaker 2:No, I'm just saying, as well as working, I have. I just haven't seen the Olivier's, but I have seen musicals.
Speaker 1:Your life is one big musical.
Speaker 2:My life is one big and I'm going to another one tomorrow night, so that's going to make it fun.
Speaker 1:What are you seeing tomorrow night? Footloose, oh yes, oh yes. Okay, lovely, I like a bit of Footloose. Where have all the good men gone and where are all the? I'm going to move on. We've done that, haven't we? On the pause.
Speaker 2:No, we're doing that Like in two weeks.
Speaker 1:Are we? Is that on the list? Well, you see, that's what I mean. I knew it was in my head somewhere. I just presumed we'd done it. Oh well, spoiler, I like food loose. Honest to goodness, couldn't have told you. Let me just check my list here.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh. He doesn't believe me.
Speaker 1:No, I do believe you, just reminding myself oh, blooming heck. We're very organised, aren't we? Yes, fantastic job, okay, great. What are the other ones?
Speaker 2:there.
Speaker 1:Oh, that'll be fun. Shall we just continue with this? Aye, let's get on to this week's then. Okay, I forgot to start the timer as well. I've no idea how long we've talked for.
Speaker 2:It's okay, we'll get a wee nod from EP. Ep, he's not listening. So this week we are doing a musical which I struggle with.
Speaker 1:I struggle with you sometimes. I'm just putting it out there. Right, that's lovely. This week we are doing a musical. My goodness, you would think after three years you could introduce the musical that we're looking at. Why do you struggle with this? Because you can't play the game.
Speaker 2:I can't play, excuse me. I'm just checking how rude.
Speaker 1:I wonder. I would love to know what our listeners think we're about to talk about, like they're going. What game is actually a musical? I know that's a really good. Do you remember back in the day when we used to give clues and then we sacked that off?
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:We're doing chess.
Speaker 2:We're doing chess.
Speaker 1:Chess, the musical we're doing chess by Benny Anderson and Bjorn Olveas. Yes, yes, he did Famous of from ABBA, of course, the ABBA man. Yeah, they did the lyrics. Sorry, ovaeus did the lyrics with Tim Rice and Tim Rice also did the book.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. So they did the music, yeah.
Speaker 1:Discuss. Why are you struggling with chess I?
Speaker 2:struggle with chess. I just don't love it and I feel bad saying that in front of a bell because I associate this musical with the bells.
Speaker 1:My father, though not me.
Speaker 2:Okay, but did your mum not like it as well, or did she not? Did she just like Josh Groban?
Speaker 1:She just liked Josh Groban Okay that's all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I felt like it was going to be another Oklahoma situation.
Speaker 1:No, no. And, to be honest, like I didn't really know much about chess until Josh Groban played it, do you know what I mean? No, no, not really, no, no, it's one of those things. Obviously we'll probably get onto it, but there's a very famous song from chess that was very famous and like it's a go-to musical staple now, isn't it For two female singers to sing. I Know Him so Well, so obviously I always knew that song, but I never knew what that song was from. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:And then they did a revival of it, starring Josh Groban and Idina Menzel and Kerry Ellis all names that I was aware of. David Bedella as well, who I flippin' love. Marty Pillow, who I hadn't a clue who he was and then realized he was wet, wet, wet. But then I don't know, I'm dry, dry, dry. Um, do you know what I mean? I didn't know wet, wet, wet was, uh, is that? I feel it in my fingers, I feel it in my toes, I pick it and I flick it everywhere it goes, yeah, yeah, so do you know? But they were all in this revival and it was a concert version of the show, which I think is also very important. Yes, because I think, in my humble opinion, I think a concert version of this show is always better than a stage version of this show. Yeah, talk about that, but I didn't really know Chess until Until them. And we got the DVD and then we never Stopped watching it Because More for the performances Than for the story. Okay, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Like because Okay, that does make me All of those people Were amazing A wee bit more at ease, because I felt like we were going to have A fallout.
Speaker 1:We never have a fallout.
Speaker 2:No, we never have a fallout. No, we never have a fallout. But I felt like I was going to have to really justify why I don't like it well, no it's not that I don't like it I don't love it, I don't love it.
Speaker 1:I don't love it okay, she doesn't love it, folks. Um, so do we just not talk about it then, or do we? No, no, we're difficult I want to know why you don't. When are you? Are you going to explain at some point why you don't like it? Probably, okay, okay, great, looking forward to that.
Speaker 2:So it is based, or is it set, during the Cold War?
Speaker 1:So it's a story involving a political, the politically driven Cold War era chess tournament. It's a tournament, a chess tournament.
Speaker 2:Okay, so between two grandmasters.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Who are experts in chess?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the thing about the whole Cold War thing is one's an American player and one's from the Soviet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then they end up fighting over a woman, but only one is really in love with the woman because yeah. So the woman manages the American. Grandmaster but falls in love with the Russian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she manages one player and falls in love with the other. Yeah, so she manages one player and falls in love with the other. Okay, I mean, that's quite a good, like gritty, kind of like storyline. It is Like it is. It's not just a wee bit boring? No well, I don't think so. Competition they're involved in a competition and want someone's aid, then ends up like going for the other camp, like you know.
Speaker 2:Know, that's quite yeah, I just struggle. Like my son loves chess, my husband loves chess and my dad loves the musicals no or okay the game and I just struggle with that.
Speaker 1:There would be that much attention around chess players so what I said at the beginning of the episode is right you don't like this show because you can't play chess.
Speaker 2:I can play chess. Clearly not very well I can't play it very well, but I can.
Speaker 1:Listen, you do not need to. You don't need to defend yourself to me, because I can play chess Also. I'm in your camp, bob. I don't have any interest in learning how to play chess.
Speaker 2:No, I quite like chess.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was once bought a Simpsons chess board for Christmas, no idea what they were thinking. I'm sorry what.
Speaker 2:It's like let's pick the worst gift to ever give to Timothy.
Speaker 1:But you know what's really quite nice about the story? It's now in my classroom in my golden time and we boys take it out every week and play chess. That's not me being sexist or anything. It just so happens that it's the wee boys in my class that want to play with it. Yeah, I think it's really nice, though yeah, I was like do you know? You're playing with that more than I ever did, because when I lifted it from the the roof space I think it was on unopened, never touched very strange, yeah it's a weird game of chess, that.
Speaker 1:But then there's the whole. Like life's a game of chess. Yes, no, I get it.
Speaker 2:You know all of that I get the whole Cold War thing and that Cold War was a big you know. I think this is what Tim Rice's inspiration was that the Cold War was like a game of chess and it was like an American move and then the.
Speaker 2:Russians move, and it was a bit like that, and it just so happened that there was this major chess tournament going on during that time, because it said that the american grandmaster um, who in the west end version is only ever referred to as the american and russian well, in broadway they get names, isn't that?
Speaker 1:right? Yes, because this is another one of those musicals that's a bit mixed up, in that there's two versions. There's the British version that came first and then the American version that kind of used a bit of the British version but changed a lot of other bits, and then it seems to be that revivals since then have almost been new versions within themselves, trying to take the best bits of both. Do you know what I mean? Tim Rice had long wanted to write a musical about the Cold War and he originally had spoken to Andrew Lloyd Webber about it Because obviously they had been already working with each other. And then, you know, months to a year, I think maybe passed before it was ever brought up again and at that point Andrew Lloyd Webber had moved on because he was in full flight with Cats. That's right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it was American producer Richard Voss who suggested actually working with Anderson and Uvaeus because at that point they were interested in pursuing projects that were outside of the ABBA stuff. That's right, because I thought that was always. When I first came across chess, I thought it was really bizarre that you know, uh, benny and bjorn had were involved, yeah, in a musical. Yeah, do you know what I mean I was like that's weird, how did that ever happen? I?
Speaker 2:always kind of knew chess but and it was always referred to as that's the abba musical yeah abba musical, but like the abba, you know I knew there was a connection to it, um, and I did always go. Oh, that's a bit weird yeah, and then only knew the song. I know him so well, which I feel is a bit jarring. Doesn't really fit in. I find it strange. Anyway, interesting.
Speaker 1:Interesting choice Now with lots of other, like lots of other productions like Jesus Christ, superstar and Evita. This started off as a highly successful concept album. It did, and it was released prior to the first theatrical production in order to raise money.
Speaker 2:To raise money and obviously Tim Rice was familiar with this because of avida and jesus christ superstar and it seems that that, I feel, is why it works best as a concert yeah, because yeah, it's, and that's why jesus christ superstar works I think as a concert too, or that sort of stripped back version but when I was researching it I kind of thought, oh, here's another one of these shows that did a concept album first.
Speaker 1:that's going to start happening more and more, isn't it, lauren? Like when you think about the like, how difficult it is for new musicals to get up and running, like I, I see more and more new musicals doing that 100% and also you see it with as like testers and we've seen it over the last number of years.
Speaker 2:So last year we had the Something Rotten concert.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now it's coming. Yeah, there was the Maiden Diagnome concert.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There was Grace 2 concert.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Concerts. Obviously Les Mis is on a big concert tour at the minute. I think because theatre is expensive and people aren't taking producers certainly aren't taking the massive risks that they would have in the past, or they're feeling like they've got a stunt cast to try and get bums on seats, that they're opting for concerts more that they're opting for concerts more, yeah, so yeah, I think you're right. Maybe new.
Speaker 1:Because actually you know the way, there's a Hunchback of Notre Dame concert. They've added another date, so it must be quite you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Popular Popular, that's the word I was saying successful, and I was like we can't say it's successful yet they haven't done it. In the case of the chess album, it was released in the autumn of 1984, while the show opened in the West End in 1986, where it played for three years in the Prince Edward Theatre. Now, the original production was originally set this freaked me out to be directed do you know this? So it was originally supposed to be directed by Michael Bennett, who have we just talked about in previous episodes as a director Sweet Charity, michael Bennett.
Speaker 2:See, there's always a connection, I know.
Speaker 1:But after casting the show and commissioning the set and costume designs, he withdrew from the project for health reasons and actually died on the 2nd of July 1987 from AIDS-related lymphoma. Oh my God, I know, yeah, but I didn't know that link until I researched it. So then Trevor Nunn, who we know as the director. He took over. Now, three principal singers from the concept album were Elaine Page, tommy Kerborg and Murray Head, and they all reprised their roles on stage. However, barbara Dixon, who is well known for that duet with Elaine Page, she was unable to appear and Siobhan McCartney played the part of Svetlana.
Speaker 2:Svetlana.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well done for saying that, svetlana Welllana yeah, well done for for saying that, svetlana. Well, you see, like I I know, like I know the show, if you know what I mean, yeah, because then the what did what? Eh? When? Was that 2008? Yes, they did this concert in the Royal Albert Hall and they released a two, two eh CD set 2008,. They did this concert in the Royal Albert Hall and they released a two CD set cast album and then it was broadcast on American PBS TV and they did then a DVD of it. Because we as a family were massive Josh Groban fans and he played Anatoly, the Soviet player, adam Pascal played the American. Yeah, exactly, and obviously at that point I was a rent head and loved rent and knew who he was. So we watched that concert over and over and over again as a family because we just all loved it, like I love the cast recording.
Speaker 2:Um, so I know the show and I actually know how to say the words for once go you well, I think that must be right, because I do remember you's watching that and I remember your mom talking about how amazing josh groban was she loved him, that's why I assumed that this was a real bell favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a bell favorite, um it's. Also it's described as a rock musical, which I yeah, okay. Struggle with a little bit but.
Speaker 1:But you've got all the American, the American players, stuff is all rock.
Speaker 2:Like it's. I think it's just not like rock Whenever. I think it's just not like rock whenever I think of like rock pages or something like that, like it has definitely some rock elements to it. Yeah, it's not as rocky as Jesus Christ Superstar.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. I was dressed as a rock star today.
Speaker 2:I know you looked really well.
Speaker 1:I do look good as a rock star.
Speaker 2:You do, and it's not the first time you've dressed that way.
Speaker 1:No, Once a year there's a rock star day. Love it. What blows my mind, though, is that in the BBC Radio 2, BBC poll of number one essential musicals, Chess came seventh. I know, but like it as a, as a stage show, it was okay, like it wasn't a disaster, but it also was far from being this big, massive success on stage, no, no, whenever it was in, and we need to think back in the 80s whenever, something like in the West End, it lasted for three years.
Speaker 2:That is a long time.
Speaker 1:Fair.
Speaker 2:okay, but it only lasted three months on Broadway.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's true, it wasn't a success in Broadway at all. And it wasn't until 2018 before it got a West End revival either.
Speaker 2:There was that too, and there was a lot of concerts, and then there was another concert in 2022. Now there's talk of it going into Broadway this year.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:And Tim Rice has said, the right people are in place. So I don't know whether or not that means they're going to do the British version in Broadway?
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that's what they will do. It certainly seems to be, of the two versions, that's the preferred. Do you know who? I think if they got their hands on it, it would be really interesting to see what they did with it. Jamie Lloyd, it just there's something about him, his style and this show I'm going. That could be really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true, yeah, there might be like a little mix.
Speaker 1:You know how this podcast works.
Speaker 2:Lauren, I know well it will.
Speaker 1:We've put it out there.
Speaker 2:They do say that because of the changes that they made on Broadway, and that's the reason why it only lasted a few months, because they changed the structure and a lot of it then felt too chaotic. Okay, what already is a bit of a, in my opinion, a bit of a hard story to grasp, Okay, fair, yeah, yeah. So it does say that chess, then you know, overall becomes the metaphor for romantic rivalries, competitive um gamemanship, superpower, politics and international intrigue yeah, that's it in the 1986 uh my birthday year olivier's it would receive three nominations for best musical and then Best Female Performer, for Lane Page, and Male Performer for Tommy Kerborg.
Speaker 1:And then in the 1988 Tony Awards they got two nominations for David Carroll and Jodie Coombe.
Speaker 2:But no wins.
Speaker 1:No wins on the board.
Speaker 2:So what about learning? Did you learn much?
Speaker 1:I did. I learned that it was based on the board. So what about learning? Did you learn much? I did? I learned that it was based on real individuals. Yes, that was my first and real chess players, and the American chess player, bobby Fischer, in particular. So, although the protagonists were not intended to represent any real individuals, the characters of the American Grandmaster named Freddie Trumper in the stage show was loosely based on this real American chess player, bobby Fischer. He was 11th World Chess Champion. He was 11th, 11th, yeah, world Chess Champion and he won the title match against Boris Paspaski of the USSR in Reykjavik, iceland, in the 1972 World Championship. It was publicised as the Cold War confrontation between the US and the USSR, and the match attracted more worldwide interest than any chess championship before or since.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, bobby Fischer himself was a chess prodigy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was just a lot, I think, just the setting and the Cold War and everything. Yes, media just seemed to follow this match.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then the you know spoiler the American player loses to the Soviet player. So Freddie loses to Anatoly. No, yeah, anatoly. And in 1975, fisher refused to defend his title when an agreement could not be reached with the international governing body over the match conditions. So consequently, the Soviet challenger, anatoly Karpov, was named world champion by default. Then Fischer subsequently disappeared from public eye and Freddie in the musical kind of gets offside very quickly and then returns as a reporter. So, even so, fisher disappeared from public eye, though occasional reports of erratic behaviour emerged. Similar to Freddie in the show, he kind of goes a wee bit off the rails a bit. In 1992, fisher then re-emerged to win an unofficial match against Spassky. Fisher made numerous lasting contributions to chess. His book my 60 Memorable Games, published in 1969, is regarded as essential reading in chess literature and I thought this was interesting because he was interested. He came up with, or palented, the chess timing system that added a time increment after each move, which is now standard practice in top tournaments of match play. That was Bobby Fischer, I see.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's lots and lots and lots of videos.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:With Bobby Fischer. How to play chess with Bobby Fischer.
Speaker 1:And then, I suppose, from the other side. So that's like looking at the American player. But then if we look at Anatoly, you know elements of the story. You know his story may also have been inspired by the chess career of Russian grandmasters Viktor Korchenov no, that's terrible and Anatoly Karpov. So Viktor was considered one of the strongest players never to have become world chess champion, the strongest players never to have become world chess champion um soviet champ. But he was a soviet champion that also defected in 1976, leaving his wife and family behind that kind of links into the the story. Um anatoly uh korpov. He was uh. His chess tournament success is included over 160 first place finishes and his 102 total months as world number one is the third longest of all time.
Speaker 2:Is it impressive? Yeah, it's impressive.
Speaker 1:It's not impressive, but it is very interesting that they took real chess players' careers, lives, storylines and they basically, yeah, I mean I don't know how they're saying it's not intentionally, no, but I'm like come on, folks, like you could change Freddie's name to Bobby. Yeah, do you know what I mean? And then you know, like chess is supposed to, the musical is supposed to reflect these Cold War tensions as you've referred to. Like the game of chess is a metaphor for the Cold War. You know, you know, yeah, yeah, so I learned that yeah, I learned that too.
Speaker 2:Um, and then the very first song. Isn't it morano? I didn't know that morano was a spa town in italy I knew that. Well.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you did, because I love.
Speaker 2:Italy, where half the residents speak German and half the residents speak Italian.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:Because it was under German rule.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:But I was looking it up and it does look absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 1:It's Italy. Anywhere in Italy is absolutely beautiful. You have to go. I'm telling you, you have to go.
Speaker 2:Okay, could we do that?
Speaker 1:for our big birthday I went to set there. I can't say it on the podcast, it's too embarrassing.
Speaker 2:Also, it says no fitter burgers, and that is not burgers that you eat, it is B-U-R-G-H-E-R-S and that means it's medieval word for social class of townspeople, often a member of the middle class, and burghers are free people who are subject to I can't say it municipal law. Is that right? Municipal?
Speaker 1:Municipal law.
Speaker 2:M-U-S. I've said it wrong and now everybody doesn't know how to say it, but anyway, municipal.
Speaker 1:We'll come back to it. I've said it wrong and now everybody doesn't know how to say it, but anyway, municipal.
Speaker 2:We'll come back to it. Municipal.
Speaker 1:That's it, yes, that's it. Jeebers Confusing us all there.
Speaker 2:I always say something wrong, so it's a nice wee staccato number, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah, it is, and I like there is like so you said about it being a rock musical. There's also, like certain parts that are very like almost choral.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And I do. I love that. I like the mix of it all. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:But yeah, I also it has. It has a Abba feel. Can't wait to hear what's coming.
Speaker 1:It has an AbBA feel, can't wait to hear what's coming. It has an ABBA feel Shocking, that isn't it, I wonder. I mean, I wonder why it might have a wee ABBA feel to it. And we all know how I feel about.
Speaker 2:ABBA. So I feel like this is the way I know, but I don't love ABBA.
Speaker 1:I don't understand what is wrong with you.
Speaker 2:That's maybe why I don't gel with it, Because I'm like mmm, and that my sister does love this musical loves the song oh does she?
Speaker 1:yeah, interesting, but she loves abba see. So there we go um.
Speaker 2:Did you know all the chess lingo?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna say yes, did you not know? So look, but like I, genuinely so. We've mentioned it already a couple of times grandmaster, like that's a title awarded to chess players by the World Chess Organization. Apart from World Champion, grandmaster is the highest title a chess player can obtain. Once achieved, the title is held for life, though exceptionally, the title can be revoked for cheating.
Speaker 2:Well, that would be right. You can't have a Grandmaster who's cheating, but isn't that cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We wouldn't be Grandmasters, my love, no idea. And then Gambit. Now I haven't watched the Netflix programme. Oh, that's boring. Okay, so that's my idea, but in one of the songs is it Story of Chess? Maybe no, but in one of the songs is it Story of Chess? Maybe no. It's the song that the Arbiter sings. I am the Arbiter, that one he sings, but there's no gambit. I don't see through. And in chess, a gambit is a chess opening in which the player sacrifices material, usually a pawn, with the hope of achieving a resulting advantage advantageous position.
Speaker 2:So your gambit is sometimes the first move that you're willing to, as you've said, sacrifice so that you will then get a potential position of advantage as the game moves on. Yes, there's the Queen's Gambit on Netflix, which lots of people ask me about I started it. I didn't like it. That's just my personal opinion. I know that one of my very dear friends, Evan, absolutely loves it and was horrified that I didn't like it.
Speaker 2:But you see, I also struggle with people getting titles like World's Strongest man. So to me that sort of getting like a grandmaster in chess I'm like well done.
Speaker 1:But but you have to, you have to earn that. That's a wee bit unfair. I just don't see the point in being the world's strongest man but that would be like saying I don't see the point in being really good at something you're really good at it's just because you're not the world's strongest man, or you're not the world's best chess player that's even second, I just you have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 2:I just don't see right fair that's all right.
Speaker 1:And then she, and then he sings. I'm moving on quick for you. Uh, from square one, he'll be watching you. 64, because who knew there was 64 squares on the chessboard, did you?
Speaker 2:I didn't actually know that an arbiter is a person or entity empowered to make a judgment yeah, so like adjudicator or judge yeah, just didn. Just didn't know, that was another name for it.
Speaker 1:Now do you think the story of chess is right? What do you mean? So it starts, and I think the British version starts with I don't think this number is in the American one. Okay, so it starts with the story of chess, where basically they're talking about how chess came about and it sings.
Speaker 1:Not much is known of early days of chess beyond a fairly vague report that 1500 years two princes fought tough brothers from a hindu throne. Their mother cried for no one really likes their offsprings fighting to the death. She begged them to stop the slaughter with her every breath. Not sure enough, one brother died. Sad beyond belief, she told her winning son you have caused such grief. I can't forgive this evil thing you've done. He tried to explain how things had really been, but he tried in vain. No words of his would satisfy the queen, and so he asked the wisest men. He knew the way to lessen her distress. They told him he'd be pretty certain to impress by using model soldiers on a checkered board to show it was his brother's fault. And thus they invented chess.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Now, if that's not true, that's really clever writing. Yeah, that that's how they manufactured this game so that's saying that it was like indian hindu yeah, yeah, now I always thought it was like greek no, definitely not.
Speaker 1:I think there's a question mark as to whether it, you know, propelled out of india or, repair it, propelled out of china. Ah, there's kind of a question mark as to which is which. Am I right? Across the international world? Yeah, oh, okay, just call me Grandmaster. And you know, in English we call it the Bishop. Yeah, but in other countries they call it the Fool or the King's Fool and it's not always religious the way we see it.
Speaker 2:Ah, okay, right. And you know it's not always just the way we see it ah, okay right. I always assumed it started in Greece. I don't know why I thought that, but they're playing it, it's just because it's another musical maybe that's because Abba's other musical is set in Greece maybe, maybe did you learn anything else.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's because Abba's other musical set in Greece, maybe, maybe Did you learn anything else?
Speaker 2:In the American and Florence song it says I'm only teasing Soviets with a gentle. Bon homie. Yep, did I say that right, so bon homie is friendly means somebody who's friendly, good natured and approachable, has an approachable manner, so somebody who would be easy to talk to, which is a nice wee word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. There's a refrain in that where they sing, and it's quite important for the plot. They sing 1956, budapest is rising, and that line refers to the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, in which Florence was separated from her father. So Florence is Trumper, the American's aide, who then falls. She then falls in love with Anatoly. Yeah, yeah. You and I. Then they sing that lovely, lovely G, then Florence quits yeah.
Speaker 2:Who'd ever think it such a squalid little ending? Yeah, and that means something dirty or unpleasant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the, the, the Soviet team and AIDS kind of there, kind of manipulate her a bit in saying that you know, we've heard from your father, your father is alive. If you can get anatoly to do this in order to win the, the game, then he will be. You will see your father again, he will be released. And then at the spoilers, then at the very end of the the show, when it has all gone to plan and anatoly has won, uh, they kind of turn around to her and say who knows if he's alive or not. Yeah, like totally just played her and like it's so heartbreaking. Like adina menzel, that's one of the best. Like I think her playing florence is one of the best performances I've seen her ever do, wicked included. I just thought she was amazing, interesting, yeah, yeah, but that kind of links into that line too, like oh, yeah, just dirty, dirty play um unpleasant.
Speaker 2:I do like the song um and I feel the the passion in it um whenever he is singing about his country and how he's being so, so passionate. I can't remember the name of the song um um anthem that's it. Yeah, um, and it kind of got me thinking. There are some people who are so patriotic that it doesn't matter what they will do, they will always do it for their country. Yeah, a thousand percent, and I was like that's quite a nice way to be. I would say if it's the right way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like you could listen to Anthem, like Anthem is another one, like I know him so well. It's like musical theatre gold, isn't it? For male singers, like big voices, but then, when you understand what the song's about, it takes on a completely different layer, doesn't it? Yeah, I do think the music in this musical is really good.
Speaker 2:I will say, one Night in Bangkok is a brilliant song.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that it's one of those earworm songs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just stuck in your head and it has been stuck in my head like for a week.
Speaker 1:And it's so different from every other song in this show. Yes, yes, and it comes at the beginning of Act 2 when you need it to start with a bang, because it's a show about playing chess and there are periods of they're playing the different rounds of chess and different tournaments and all the rest of it. Now, I love a bit of orchestral like. I love those, those bits of music. Do you know what I mean? Where you know, and on stage you almost don't need anything to happen. That's why I like it as a concert version, because you don't need to go mental with staging. You can just enjoy the music for what it is. Um, but then you've got that one minute and then you've got one night in bangkok. Makes the whole world, you know. The next, do you know what I mean? Um, in the opening ceremony, the uh arbiter sings.
Speaker 1:If you're thinking of the kind of things that we've seen in the past Chanting gurus, walkie-talkies, walkouts, hypnotists that's a specific reference to that 1978 World Championship game between Antoli Karpov and Victor Courtenay, one of the inspirations behind this story of chess. Apparently, karpov had a large entourage for the match that included an alleged hypnotist, dr Vladimir Zakhar, who was supposedly employed to prevent Courtenoy from winning. Oh yeah, there you go, employed to prevent.
Speaker 2:Courtenoy from winning oh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. I know him so well. We've talked about that song loads, haven't we? Yeah, so did you know that the chorus of the song was actually based on? Of course you knew, because you're a massive ABBA fan. I forgot the chorus of that song was actually based on. I Am An A.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, a song that they had but didn't do much with.
Speaker 1:So it was an ABBA song. They have performed it live during their 1977 tour, but they've never officially released it and you can only really see it on. It circulates on some bootlegs out there, but that's, that's the only place you can see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you not feel that that song? I can't stand it because you know it, with Elaine Page and Barbara Dixon and that very iconic music video. Yeah, it feels like it doesn't fit into that musical Liam Page and Barbara Dixon and that very iconic music video. Yeah, it feels like it doesn't fit into that musical.
Speaker 1:But it was written for the musical. So then, when Carrie Ellis and Dina Menzel and sorry that I keep going back to them, but that's my experience of chess, I've seen it on stage once. I saw UK Tour of it and I think it was, I think it was the one that, um, craig Revel Hallward directed and choreographed and it was quite clever because all that they were actor musos, but they also played the pieces on the chessboard, like that's how it was kind of set. Um. But apart from that, those are my two, only two, experiences, but it makes more sense within the show. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:And I think, because they were so good at it, you can, because, let's be honest, it's a bit comical. Do you know what I mean? Like the the barbara, barbara dixon and elaine page, one now, because so many people have done like sketches of it. Do you know what I mean? But I think when you see it in the show and you're in the show, do you know what I mean. You're in the zone um, interestingly, liam page and barbara dixon never met during the recording of that they.
Speaker 2:They recorded both of their bits separately that's so interesting it's so funny because they're obviously meant to not look like they're looking at each other.
Speaker 1:And they're literally not, yeah, literally. And it remains in the Guinness Book of Records as the biggest selling UK chart single ever by a female Jew.
Speaker 2:Well, and again it's another earworm that once it's there and it's in your head and you're like get it out, but it's very easy to take, pull the leg.
Speaker 1:No one in your head and you're like get it out. But it's very easy to take, pull the leg no one in your life. We should do that. We so should we have to do that?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's do that. No one is who are you?
Speaker 1:are you EP? Are you going to be EP?
Speaker 2:no, I'll be Barbara, but.
Speaker 1:I took one and I'll debut with you. I'm turning to Cher. Cher would be great recording that.
Speaker 2:Cher sure has done every single piece in West Side. She could do both parts wasn't it good oh? So good, wasn't it fine, oh, so fine isn't it madness?
Speaker 1:she can't be mine anyway we move on.
Speaker 2:Isn't it fine? I'm so fine, isn't? It madness she can't be mine.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we move on. Do you have any standing ovations, apart from my singing?
Speaker 2:Apart from your feet, I'm going to go One Night in Bangkok.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because I do, even though it reminds me of Emma. I feel like it's a really good opening.
Speaker 1:act two Okay, I feel like it's a good opening of the second act number I like you kind of feel like there's something gritty or something going on as well, so yeah, that's my sad narration. It's one of those musicals where I go with the alternative rather than the big, well-known song. So obviously Anatoly's big number is Anthem. I'm not an Anthem guy, I'm a when I Wanna Be guy. I love that song that he sings.
Speaker 2:Where I wanna be and who I wanna be, and doing what I always said I wouldn't, and I feel like I don't want it all.
Speaker 1:Are you impressed? I know the words, yeah that's very good.
Speaker 2:I actually don't mind Pity the Child. Yes, me either.
Speaker 1:That's Freddie's one, isn't it? Pity the Child. Just don't know the words to that bit.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've totally contradicted myself. There's maybe four songs which I quite like in this music.
Speaker 1:And same with the Girls? It's not. I Know Him so Well. I love Florence singing Nobody's Side and then Svetlana's, someone Else's Story that's a beautiful song. And Kerry Ellis, although she's now cancelled her Belfast concert and I'm never going to see Kerry Ellis live, certainly not this year. Anyway, that's sad, I know very sad concert and I'm never going to see Kerry Ellis live, certainly not this year anyway, that's sad.
Speaker 1:I know. Very sad she's postponed it like twice and now it's just now cancelled. Sad, Her singing someone else's stories fabulous, and I was looking forward to her singing that in her concert because I'm sure she would have done it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she would have done it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, anyway, anyway, well, would you like she would have?
Speaker 2:done it Anyway, anyway, anyway, well, would you like? What would Paddy do?
Speaker 1:Go on then.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I just realised I maybe cut you off. Was that all of yours done in a few seconds?
Speaker 1:I've realised, doing this episode, I actually really quite like this piece of music. So I could go on for days. No, but that's all I'm willing to share right now. That's all I'm willing. I'll do my concept album. Okay, be out in the well.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've just done anatoly and then I moved on to freddie but could you paint yourself like one side black and then be on the chessboard and then be the American and then turn and be the Russian?
Speaker 1:Aye sure Dead on.
Speaker 2:I feel like I could direct that.
Speaker 1:You could, of course you could, okay what would Paddy do? What would she do?
Speaker 2:Would you like to be in the opening of Lion King or perform a lively bottle dance from Fiddler on the Roof?
Speaker 1:That's so weird. You just that's the one that you picked, so they do. You're talking about random, the things that they do that the show on the Olivier's or things like that. So Fiddler on the Roof did a performance, that's what they did the bottle dance how weird, really weird. Really weird. Really weird. Also, how weird the Fiddler on the Roof. You know how I feel about Fiddler on the Roof, yeah, but you see I One best revival over Hello Flippin' Dolly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, but I also feel like Fiddler on the Roof is something that you say like, but actually you do like, like it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we need to go and see it because it is coming to Belfast and it's at Regent's Park production that is now an Olivier Award winning production, so we should definitely go and see it, and I would interestingly do the bottle dance.
Speaker 2:See, I think there's a little love for Fiddler. I just don't think you've seen my production yet they just have too many daughters.
Speaker 1:He has too many daughters. If he could whack off a few daughters at the beginning of the musical, so he only has to get rid of one, okay, that would be fine.
Speaker 2:I mean, it would be a short one, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, he goes on and off with that blooming cart. If I were a rich man and he sings 24 verses or something I know. Anyway, we're not here to talk about Fylde, but that's what I would choose. Yeah, because I think I've done the opening of Lion King. I did it in the school and it was beautiful. People cried oh. No, they actually cried. Oh, I thought you were talking about the tiger. They cried real tears. No, they cried real tears when, when my giant elephant came down the central aisle, made out of a bed sheet, you're laughing, but that's how I made my, how I made my elephant you are so good no, not really, but creatively, but you know.
Speaker 2:I've done that one I can so good. No, not really Creatively.
Speaker 1:Creativity. But you know, I've done that one. I can tick that one off. I haven't done a bottle dance. Okay, and it's still watch that. You need to watch the Olivia Awards. I've got it recorded, and can you then tell me how the hell those bottles stayed on their head?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Please, because I'm racking my brain.
Speaker 2:Did they have hats?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had hats. But, like it's very clear, when they put the bottle on, they're pushing a soft hat down. It's not as if it's a rigid hat that has a bottle holder placed for it. It's not one of those bad boys.
Speaker 2:Maybe just a little bit of double-sided sticky tape.
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I'm thinking magnets Are magnets involved?
Speaker 2:Yeah, magnets definitely could be involved. Or there's like a little bit that sits up and then there's a bit behind the bottle.
Speaker 1:There's no bit that sits up. You wouldn't see it. Oh, I saw it Because it's clever. I saw it.
Speaker 2:And then that just slots on Nope, I saw it.
Speaker 1:There's loads of different ways.
Speaker 2:There's nothing there.
Speaker 1:In other words, if anybody's doing Fiddler and needs to think of different ways to put the, I already have a million ideas in my head. The Laura knows what she's doing.
Speaker 2:I'm very good at all that stuff Coming up with ideas.
Speaker 1:We haven't done Fiddler yet, have we? No, we'll see Fiddler and then we'll do Fiddler.
Speaker 2:Okay, got you Fair enough, we're going to come back. There's going to be no ban anything.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:Because the musical we're doing next week.
Speaker 1:What are we doing again? I need to check my pick. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:He's checking again.
Speaker 1:Anyway, do you know how you're talking about working 9 to 5, 10 to 11. Like I'm busy too. Oh, it's that one right, fair enough.
Speaker 2:There'll be no banning. We're going to be back.
Speaker 1:Are you going back to doing like clues at the end of the episodes that you were like let's not do that anymore, yeah, right?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Until next week. Bye, bye.
