Musical Lyrical Lingo

We're Musical Lyrical Lingo!

Join Tim and Lj who delve deep into the wonderful world of musical theatre and more importantly the lessons they have learned from different musicals.

Join them as they explore some of the greatest musicals ever created, from the classics to the new and exciting shows that continue to teach us something new.

So whether you're a seasoned fan of the stage or a newcomer, this podcast is for you.

So sit back, relax and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of musical theatre.

RSSVERIFY

All Episodes

Musical Lyrical Lingo

The Hamilton Phenomenon part 1

June 30, 2025 • Tim and Lj • Season 3 • Episode 20

0:00 | 40:28

Send a text

From obsessive teenage viewing marathons to Broadway's biggest box office records, Hamilton has revolutionized musical theatre in ways almost impossible to measure. This special family episode peels back the curtain on Lin-Manuel Miranda's masterpiece, with hosts Tim and LJ joined by LJ's daughter CJ, who represents the younger generation utterly captivated by this groundbreaking show.

"I watched it 14 times in three days," confesses CJ, highlighting how Hamilton's innovative approach to American history through hip-hop and rap has connected with audiences who might otherwise never engage with historical narratives. The fast-paced lyrics – reaching an astounding 200 words per minute in some songs – deliver complex history in an accessible, memorable format. We explore how the musical has even become an unexpected educational tool, introducing listeners to challenging vocabulary and historical events through its infectious songs.

The episode traces Miranda's seven-year journey from reading Ron Chernow's biography on vacation to creating a global phenomenon. What began as a concept for a Hamilton mixtape evolved into a Broadway juggernaut that grossed $3.3 million in a single week – breaking records and accumulating unprecedented accolades including 11 Tony Awards, a Pulitzer Prize, and a Grammy. We delve into the original cast's special chemistry, the show's continued success across international productions, and how the 2020 filmed version on Disney+ expanded its reach even further.

This conversation captures both the analytical perspective of long-time theatre lovers and the fresh enthusiasm of a younger fan, creating a multi-generational look at why Hamilton continues to captivate audiences worldwide. Join us next week for part two, where we'll dive deeper into our musical lyrical lingos from the show and further explore Hamilton's revolutionary impact on musical theatre.

End of MLL

Support the show

Don't forget to rate us, share with your friends and follow us on our social media channels.

Speaker 1 0:25

Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts, Tim and LJ.

Speaker 2 0:30

Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they told us.

Speaker 1 0:35

Oh, mummy, daddy, this is the big one, it's the big one, it's the shakedown, the shakedown. You know that button Bugsy Merlot.

Speaker 2 0:43

No.

Speaker 1 0:43

The big one, the big one, the shakedown, the shakedown. It's the one you've all been waiting for. Yeah, that is true, I know, and we've kept them on tenterhooks for three long years.

Speaker 2 0:58

I still can't quite believe we're doing it. We've been very clever and we're recording it so that it'll go out around Independence Day.

Speaker 1 1:07

I mean I love the fact you've said we've been very clever. I mean I I have no part in that that you have been very clever well, I mean she's so clever, so she's yeah, indeedio.

Theatre News Updates

Speaker 1 1:24

well, I think it's going to be a long enough one, so we'll maybe just fire into it. Two very brief quick theater. New pieces of theater news sorry, three lies three david hunter, grace moat, are to join lucy jones in 13, going on 30. The music it will have its world premiere next autumn in Manchester. Number one, number two Broadway's Jeremy James yes Is going to play London this summer.

Speaker 2 1:56

Jeremy James.

Speaker 1 1:57

Jeremy Jordan.

Speaker 2 1:58

Jeremy Jordan. I was like who is Broadway's Jeremy James?

Speaker 1 2:03

Jeremy Jordan's brother. His largest concert yet, he'll be in the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday, the 12th of July. Love it. I'm doing a youth project at that point in time. I can't. I'll be in in Greece mode. And then I'm excited for this one. Okay, because I kind of like this musical. Barnum yes is going to be going on a UK tour next February. Yep, with Lee Mead. I also like him. I do like him too. Any Dream Will Do fame. He's going to be playing the role of PT Barnum.

Speaker 2 2:36

Yep, I think that'll be great.

Speaker 1 2:38

It's quite interesting because I saw on his Twitter he was like tantalising people. He was like big news tomorrow, Can't wait to tell you. And then it was out of Barnum. Yeah, that'll be good. Barnum's a great musical.

Speaker 2 2:49

Going on tour hasn't been out for very well.

Speaker 1 2:51

No, but you're going to have your usual. I don't know if it's coming here, though, because it's only a UK tour. Someone might need to go for a wee trip to Bromley, or something.

Speaker 2 3:01

Well, wee trips are always good.

A Teen's Perspective on Hamilton

Speaker 1 3:02

Absolutely Right. Right On to the matter at hand.

Speaker 2 3:07

So we have a little extra person here with us.

Speaker 1 3:10

In the room where it happened.

Speaker 2 3:11

In the room where it happened.

Speaker 1 3:13

Do you like what I did there?

Speaker 3 3:14

Yes, it was better than it was.

Speaker 1 3:19

Now you're going to have to speak up because we haven't mic'd you. Because we know what you're like on mic, you take over, so you speak up. Do you know all that diction and voice projection you've been taught? Yeah, who are you?

Speaker 3 3:32

Speak up, all that you know all that diction and you know voice projection you've been taught yeah, who are you? Why? Who's CJ the? Star oh really, I'm excited. I'm excited. Next week it's going to be just me and Timmy, oh right.

Speaker 1 3:43

Okay, I thought you were going to go the other way there because I had said before the episode started you don't just want to take my place and I'll go home. I thought you were about to replace me, but no, you're replacing your mother. Good choice, oh, alright. You had a hard time, don't you? In this podcast? If it's not your husband, it's executive producer, it's your daughter. How do you cope? I don't know. I feel sorry for her. Why are you here? Why you here? Why are you here? I don't know. No, um, I love hamilton, yeah, okay. So question before you tell us what we know, before you get into your hamilton facts I think it's like your age, age group and maybe slightly older, that are the the main basis of the Hamilton fans. What are you called? Ham, hammies, ham.

Speaker 1 4:35

Ham fans I don't know, why do you like it so much?

Speaker 3 4:41

It's just, I don't know, like you introduced it to me during COVID and like it's quite fast-paced. So like you understand the story and I like that it's sung all the way through and like the music's just amazing.

Speaker 1 4:57

So, yeah, so it's the music then.

Speaker 2 5:00

Yeah, and you like that it's sung through music. Yeah.

Speaker 3 5:03

I feel like it's really boring, like whenever there's a lot of dialogue, I like all the songs.

Speaker 1 5:08

Heaven forbid the dialogue like drives the songs. Heaven forbid the dialogue drives the plot or the story. Cj no.

Speaker 3 5:16

You can do that to music.

Speaker 1 5:18

No, I totally agree with you, and you're clearly a cleverer person than me, because you said that you understand it. You understood it. So you're very clever, because I still don't think I understand half of the story Really. Well, yeah, because it is sung through and it's very fast paced. I'm like, well, rewind, rewind.

Speaker 3 5:38

I feel like every time. I think that's good though, because every time you watch it, then you can learn something new.

Speaker 1 5:44

That's fair. And how many times have you watched it then?

Speaker 3 5:47

I don't know Over COVID. How many times have I watched it? Then I don't know In over Covid, how many times I watched? I had watched it like 14 times in three days. In three days you watched it 14 times I had it on like um in in the background, while while we were doing like homeschool work and stuff.

Speaker 1 6:07

Well, you clearly weren't doing much work that day, were you? You?

Speaker 3 6:09

No, I was, I was, and like I would sit in my bedroom and watch it. I was, yeah, Like I was obsessed.

Speaker 2 6:18

Yeah, you did get obsessed and I think that this was a really good reason for the ProShot. So I know that the ProShot was brought forward because it was meant to be in the Heights, was meant to be released before um hamilton, but because of covid and because of everything that was going on, they decided to release um hamilton on disney plus. And this is why I love pro shops is because people are introduced to it.

Speaker 2 6:39

Who would never get a chance to to see something, and you were five years ago, you, well you weren't a teenager you were little um and you were watching this musical and you were kind of blown away by. You listened and heard the soundtrack because I played it quite a lot.

Speaker 3 6:54

Oh my word. I actually had a bad relationship with hamilton when I was very young, when I was like, oh yeah, was that, was that like 2016 maybe? And like she played it all on staff.

Speaker 1 7:13

No, how many are we going to get in Like?

Speaker 3 7:15

actually it was not okay Me and my brother like it was. It was dreadful. Not the actual music, but just the amount of times we'd heard every single song and as a little little child, I could not comprehend all those words.

Speaker 1 7:30

yeah, so fast, so as a fully grown adult, I can't comprehend comprehend all those words going so fast. So are you telling me you didn't become a fan fan until you saw it? Yeah okay that's right and what was it seeing it that made it different from just hearing the music, the soundtrack, nonstop.

Speaker 3 7:51

Because then I could like understand the story.

Speaker 1 7:54

Yeah.

Speaker 3 7:55

And like I was just, and they were like all shuffled about as well, which didn't really help all the songs. But then like seeing it all together.

Speaker 1 8:02

Did your mother play it on shuffle?

Speaker 3 8:04

I'm pretty sure, I don't know. I was just a little child.

Speaker 1 8:06

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, but yeah, it just just was better like seeing the stage. Yeah, and what did you think of the staging of it then? Because that's what lots of people kind of rant and rave about yeah, like I.

Speaker 3 8:22

I remember asking, like how is the stage spinning? Like I couldn't understand. But yeah, I just love it. And like it's just so clever as well. I just, I just love it.

Speaker 2 8:32

They really use the stage to their advantage as well and I think that's what you really fell in love with was the staging, seeing something, and seeing not just like a straight play. You know people just before. You know people using levels. And then you, you know you were supposed you were getting a bit older as well and you were understanding the importance of that and why. Maybe you're taught that in stagecoach, like use the space.

Speaker 1 8:56

Which some of you still don't do. Based on last weekend, use the blooming space. Why is there Anyway?

Speaker 2 9:04

But you also. You had been introduced to Lin-Manuel Miranda's works because you were a fan of Moana. So you were a fan of Moana, yeah, so you were familiar with that at the time, but you were, you knew his style, didn't you?

Speaker 3 9:18

Yeah, and their costumes. I love the costumes so much. Like the Skylar sister costumes are gorgeous and I was very jealous watching that. But yeah, like I think that's another thing. Coming back to your question, like seeing all the different characters, because all their voices kind of sounded the same, but like seeing all the different characters, yeah, like associating their faces, like I imagine whenever I think of, like the story of Hamilton, like Alexander Hamilton, I think of Lin-Manuel Miranda because he was yeah, yeah like I can't remember.

Speaker 3 9:55

I imagine the Schuyler sisters. I imagine the original cast, yeah, like, rather than the actual people.

Speaker 1 10:02

Yeah, that they were in history, yeah and do you think that was a good shout? Uh, lin-manuel Miranda playing Alexander Hamilton.

Speaker 3 10:11

I think he deserved to Like. He wrote this massive 42 song musical and then, like I mean, I probably would as well, probably just cast yourself. Cast myself as everything one moment show, you know.

Speaker 1 10:26

Well, if you only had the choice of being one part, what part would you play?

Speaker 3 10:30

Oh, this is a good question.

Speaker 1 10:31

question because you see, you can't play every part, that's just not allowed one woman I I would pay to see that cj's one woman, hamilton yeah, love it.

Learning Through Lyrics

Speaker 3 10:43

And when I was younger I really, really wanted to be eliza, just because I like loved her songs and stuff and she was like in my head like the main female character but, I think I would probably lean towards more playing like um angelica, though, because I love satisfied and I just feel like all her songs have a lot of emotion in them, like so do, obviously, all the other characters, but I just I feel like I don't know, it's just better, it's just better.

Speaker 2 11:13

Right.

Speaker 1 11:13

Gay.

Speaker 2 11:14

So what did you learn from her? So?

Speaker 3 11:17

you tell us?

Speaker 2 11:17

I have these facts, yeah okay, just the facts, and then we'll say goodbye to you.

Speaker 3 11:21

But you have to tell us Aww, yeah, okay. So Lin-Manuel Miranda began to write Hamilton at the start of 2008,. Which is amazing, he started writing songs after reading. How do you say that? Ron, ron, ron.

Speaker 1 11:38

Cher.

Speaker 3 11:38

Noise, Cher Noise. Biography of Alexander Hamilton.

Speaker 1 11:42

Think of Cher Cher Noise.

Speaker 3 11:44

Okay, the musical had many workshops until finally it had its off-Broadway premiere in 2015. And some songs reached to 200 words per minute. Love that.

Speaker 1 11:58

Yeah, very good.

Speaker 2 12:00

And what have you learned from it? So obviously you know our music, our podcast, but what have you learned from it?

Speaker 3 12:08

Okay, I have a little list. So in the first song, Alexander Hamilton, I didn't know what a treatise was or a treatise. Is that what it is?

Speaker 1 12:17

Treatise yeah.

Speaker 3 12:19

It's a formal piece of writing that considers and examines a particular subject which I just sang. Those lyrics for so long not understanding. We've all been there, so don't worry about it, Okay okay, okay, a stute those lyrics for so long not understanding. We've all been there, so don't worry about it. Okay, okay, okay. Astute, didn't know what that was. Having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage.

Speaker 1 12:39

Do you think you have that? Are you astute?

Speaker 3 12:43

Possibly.

Speaker 1 12:44

I think you're astute. I think you're your mother's daughter.

Speaker 3 12:49

Okay, aaron Bursar. Yeah, imminent, likely to occur at any moment. We actually had to learn that for an RA exam, but it just like.

Speaker 1 12:59

But you knew that already. Yeah, thanks to Hamilton have you found in life that musicals have like touchy little things that you know about already.

Speaker 3 13:07

Isn't that amazing, I think.

Speaker 1 13:10

So I things that you know about yeah already isn't that amazing?

Speaker 3 13:12

I think so. I can't think of any examples.

Speaker 1 13:13

Yeah, but yeah, I think so I felt the same. Growing up I was like I know that already because of because of said musical.

Speaker 3 13:18

That's why we do this podcast, yeah but yeah, because like obviously you're so musically that like I grew up with like you had no other choice left, did you really? Yeah, but like I, heard overheard stuff and then I was like okay, and I would ask what something is, and then you would explain to me you had no other choice left, did you really?

Speaker 1 13:34

Yeah, but like I overheard stuff and then I was like okay, and I would ask what something is. And then you would explain it to me. You had no other choice with this musical.

Speaker 3 13:39

Really did you? Your mum batted a bat over the head with the soundtrack nonstop? Yeah, but like my mum played it so much when I was younger and then, like, a few years later than I was the one that was knowing her, I was playing it too much. So, but yeah, and like even before I went to sleep at night, I would like play it on my Alexa.

Speaker 1 13:55

Yeah, but that's your job as a daughter to annoy your mum.

Speaker 2 13:58

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's doing a good job. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 14:01

Yeah, okay, what else did you learn?

Speaker 3 14:13

I actually didn't know that was the name of the song until doing this, like I didn't realize that, because it never says those words.

Speaker 3 14:15

No, that's right in the song. And I was so confused I was like what is that song called? But yeah, um, modulate the key. I was like, wait, what is that? To change the key? No, to change the tonal center of a piece of music from one key to another. Yeah, pretty simple. But I just wanted to double check. Right Hand man. Whenever I was younger I was like whenever he said Right Hand man, I thought it was like Right Handed man.

Speaker 3 14:41

I was very confused, but it's fine, marder, this is also said in Wicked and that's how I knew it as well. Okay, because Glinda said it as well. Okay, because Glinda said no, yeah, not the like school people say about Glinda.

Speaker 1 14:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 14:57

It's a person who's killed because of their beliefs.

Speaker 1 15:00

Are you looking forward to Wicked for Good? I'm so excited Are we going again together, because we went as a wee team the first time round.

Speaker 3 15:06

Yeah, we did.

Speaker 1 15:08

I feel we have to do that again 100%.

Speaker 3 15:12

I'm so excited. Okay, I feel like I feel like the first half's really good, but I feel like the second half's like more emotional and like exciting and like it has more of a plot and it's kind of where you piece everything together.

Speaker 1 15:24

Yeah there's more to it, isn't there?

Speaker 3 15:25

yeah, everything just makes a lot more sense and it's like really fun. But yeah, um are you?

Speaker 1 15:31

are you dorothy? I'm confused well because there's loads of speculation out there at the moment as to who is playing the role of Dorothy. So I'm just asking are you Dorothy?

Speaker 3 15:42

It's not me, but. I hope it's the girl who played Matilda.

Speaker 2 15:47

Alicia Weir yeah, I hope it's, her there was chat that it was Dove Cameron, but I don't think it's. Dove Cameron? No, I don't think it's her you should have got the gig.

Speaker 1 15:56

You'd be a good Dorothy, oh, maybe not. No, I didn't think it's her. You should have got the gig. You'd be a good Dorothy, oh, maybe not.

Speaker 3 16:02

Okay, okay, okay, okay, anyway.

Speaker 1 16:04

Sweetness and light. You are not.

Speaker 3 16:07

Okay, right, we're just going to move on.

Speaker 1 16:09

Move on.

Speaker 3 16:11

Wait for it. So he says his grandfather was.

Speaker 2 16:14

Yes, we'll talk about that. So that's fine, Did I not say?

Speaker 1 16:17

that no fine. No, you say.

Speaker 3 16:19

Fire and brimstone preacher, and it's a Christian preacher who emphasises God's judgment and the eternal consequences of sin, often using vivid descriptions of hell to encourage repentance.

Speaker 1 16:31

There you go.

Speaker 3 16:34

That is a big description. That would be enough. Relish Great enjoyment. Yeah, I didn't know what that meant. The room where it happened unprecedented. I thought it was like I genuinely thought George Washington had taken Unpresident. Yeah, that's what I mean yeah, but it's never known or done before. A new idea. The Adams administration ardently, very enthusiastically or passionately so that's interesting blew us all away. How do you say that Disparged Regard or represent Disparaged Thatbarged?

Speaker 1 17:18

Regard or represent.

Speaker 2 17:19

Disbaraged. That's it.

Speaker 1 17:26

Represent EPR has got to send his hands.

Speaker 3 17:33

I was told the wrong information. He's not very pleased. He's not very pleased, it's not very pleased.

Speaker 2 17:39

That's okay, it's alright.

Speaker 3 17:41

It's alright, we'll move on quickly um, then in the next one, the election of 1800, um right forgive ob obfuscates, obfuscates, I don't know. No, me I like. Even listened to the Google Translate.

Speaker 2 18:03

I know that's one of mine too, and I still couldn't get it.

Speaker 3 18:07

I forgot.

Speaker 1 18:10

Obfuscates is what you've written down.

Speaker 3 18:15

I have the right spelling, I just don't know how to pronounce it To make obscure, unclear or unintelligible. Yeah, that's me all the time. That's great. Um, the world was wide enough. Rigor sudden feeling of cold, with shivering accompanied by a rise in temperature, and then, last one, your obedient servant equivocate.

Speaker 1 18:42

Well done.

Speaker 3 18:43

Use ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth. So, yes, those are my musical lyrical languages.

Speaker 1 18:50

And will you use all of those words in your schoolwork now?

Speaker 1 18:54

Probably the easier to sell ones to could sell ones you could totally throw some of them in and show off a bit. That was quite refreshing because often in the pod, like we come to, like words that we are, you know we have in our musical lyrical lingos and as adults we find kind of feel a bit daft like mentioning them as a musical lyrical lingo. But we mentioned them because we first came across them when we were probably around your age and it totally does take on a totally different. Oh, I have one more. This is it. You see, you get the CJ started. You can't get her stopped.

Speaker 3 19:30

Oh well, it's not here.

Speaker 1 19:31

You alright, but in burn.

Speaker 3 19:33

I have the definition no burn, burn Not burn.

Speaker 2 19:36

I have the definition.

Speaker 1 19:37

No burn, no burn, burn, burn Not burn.

Speaker 3 19:39

Okay Burn, I didn't know. I remember listening to In the Kitchen. It's like a core memory for me. We were listening to Burn in the Kitchen one day, and then she mentioned Icarus.

Speaker 1 19:51

Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 19:52

I was like what's that? And then you told me the story. So the myth of Icarus tells the story of a young man who, while attempting to escape imprisonment, imprisonment imprisonment with his father. How do you say that?

Speaker 1 20:04

Don't ask your mother.

Speaker 3 20:07

Do you actually know it? No, yeah, his father, okay yeah, flew too close to the sun. That's it so yeah, that's another thing. Well, thank you, so much is this your.

Speaker 1 20:24

Is this your number one musical?

Speaker 3 20:25

then cj I don't have a number one musical I'm the same because, like every month there's a new one, like every one month, I'm like, okay, give that, we go, I'm gonna give this, and then I'm like it's the best musical I've ever heard. But I would say, for the memories and for the amazingness, um, probably number it's definitely in your top 10, isn't it?

Speaker 2 20:47

if you're in my top three, okay four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Yeah, so if you, you know it's sometimes hard musicals. We talk about this. A lot depends on what mood you're in. Yeah, you know it depends on what memory you're pulling from. But yeah, if it's within the top 10, that's pretty good Because, like you said, there are lots of musicals out there, very many.

Speaker 1 21:08

And tell me something Are you good at history and school?

Speaker 3 21:10

Yes.

Speaker 1 21:12

But you're better at geography, right?

Speaker 3 21:13

Oh God, I'm actually like the same got the same result no, you've got to work harder on your geography.

Speaker 1 21:18

Then you have to trump that.

Speaker 3 21:21

I did better in my winter in geography good girl, proud of you.

Speaker 1 21:25

This is because I am a geographer yeah, I was revising. I was like gotta do it for Timmy but based on the musical, I suppose, because it is a musical theatre podcast. Did you? Did you learn more about American history from this, or was it as confusing for you as it was for me?

Speaker 3 21:46

No, I definitely learned more, because I didn't know anything before the first time I listened, because I listened to it so young I didn't know anything about it before I watched it I'm so glad you said that because I have an alexander hamilton history test for you now so yeah, so number one, I'm glad you said sugar okay, no, I'm gonna do that to you I was very scared.

Speaker 1 22:19

I was like what's your favorite song?

Speaker 3 22:22

oh, I don't know. I like all of them, but I don't like this would be easier. I feel like I don't want to get hated on, but um, you won't be hated on I don't love my, my Shot.

Speaker 1 22:37

I am not throwing away my shot.

Speaker 3 22:39

Overplayed Lukey and like I just don't get the hype, I feel like there's other songs. Like for it to be the song of Hamilton. I wouldn't say so.

Speaker 1 22:49

Okay.

Speaker 3 22:50

Or Hurricane Interesting, interesting, I think they're both about him, which is kind of bad.

Speaker 1 22:56

The whole musical's about him. You know what I mean. Like those are the ones where it's just interesting.

Speaker 3 22:58

I think they're both about him, which is kind of bad, the whole musical's about him. But like you know what I mean, like those are the ones where it's like like him, him, yeah, but yeah, I just, I just feel like Hurricane's very slow and it's it's quite short anyway, like it's not the longest song ever, but it's slow, yeah, it's just kind of weird okay, and did you watch the uh revival performance of hamilton on the tony's this year?

Speaker 1 23:25

yes, and what are your critiques?

Speaker 3 23:28

looky, I wanted um anthony ramos to be in it a bit more, but other than that I was, I was happy. I wanted more, but yeah, that'll that'll do for now. Yeah you're happy with your lot yes, I'm happy that we even got one okay like just to see the band back together, you know yeah, and so you're you.

Speaker 1 23:50

We will see you then on stage in the the future, as, uh, eliz, isn't that right? Yeah, no, angelica is your favourite now, isn't it? Yeah, she's the older, isn't she? So you might have to wait a bit longer for that It'll be Hamilton. Well, Lin-Manuel Miranda has put it out there that he wouldn't be against a female Hamilton.

Speaker 2 24:14

I mean Cynthia Erivo's playing Jesus.

Speaker 1 24:16

so no, she's not she is In Hollywood Super Bowl this summer. Are you being serious? Yeah.

Speaker 3 24:23

Where's?

Speaker 2 24:23

Hollywood Super Bowl In Hollywood aye In.

Speaker 1 24:25

Hollywood aye.

Speaker 2 24:26

Not.

Speaker 1 24:27

Hollywood, not Hollywood going to die. We don't have a Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 24:31

I don't know what a Super Bowl is. What's a Super Bowl? It's a big American football. That's a different podcast.

Speaker 1 24:37

You need to go on a sports podcast for that. Don't be asking us questions like that. If it's not about musical theatre, we don't know, and sometimes we don't know when it's about musical theatre Okay, okay, that's fine then we're flying by the seat of our pants. That is a lyric. I'm impressing myself. You're very good, because I'm not going to lie to you, cj, I wouldn't be the biggest Hamilton fan.

Speaker 3 24:59

No, that hurts my heart.

Speaker 1 25:01

Is this the point you leave us, then?

Speaker 3 25:03

Might be because.

Speaker 1 25:05

Really. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 25:07

You'll have to listen to the pod if I don't wear. Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 25:11

Thank you so much. And do you know what? If your mummy's sick, I'll do the podcast with you okay, yeah no, genuinely yeah if there's a week she's under the weather, she can swing you in okay you can be the podcast super swing yeah, you know coming in when me either.

Speaker 3 25:28

Yeah, I could even take over.

Speaker 1 25:30

I mean, he doesn't do much, so okay, thank you go and go and watch hamilton or yeah, or yeah, but yeah how many times? 15?

Hamilton's Cultural Impact

Speaker 2 25:49

bye, bye bye that was a nice feedback, that was fantastic.

Speaker 1 25:54

Honest to god, she's your daughter I know.

Speaker 2 25:56

So, in case you weren't aware, hamilton is an American musical which is sung, rapped through, and it was all written and composed by Lin-Manuel Miranda the genius that he is.

Speaker 1 26:07

Yeah, cultural phenomena is probably the only way to describe Hamilton, a musical that permeated popular culture, zapped new life into Broadway when it hit the Richard Rodgers stage in 2015.

Speaker 2 26:20

That's right. It was only off-Broadway in the Palace for a very short time I think it was three weeks and then they put the tickets on for Rodgers and it sold out and they then realised they had something pretty special. Miranda describes Hamilton as America then told by America. Now so 2015,. Off Broadway and Broadway went to the West End in 2017. And then we have in 2023, the start of the international tour and then it's currently just finished a UK and Ireland tour.

Speaker 1 26:56

Absolutely yeah. The show relates to the life story of Alexander Hamilton, the $10 founding father, from his impoverished childhood in the West Indies through to his rise of prominence during the American Revolution. It does so in a variety of musical styles, from hip hop to jazz to Broadway, captivating longtime fans of musical theatre and bringing new appreciators from around the world to the fold into the fold.

Speaker 2 27:38

written in the heights previously and it obviously won um a lot of tony awards for in the heights, so he was actually invited. So I think cj mentioned that he composed it from 2008 um, but he was invited to the white house um to perform music from in the heights but, he decided that he would actually do an early version of alexander hamilton that's a mixtape that he was working on, and, and that performance is widely available on youtube and you can watch it very cool crazy, um. You know, even brak obama is sitting.

Speaker 1 28:07

Go laughing because he goes, I'm going to do this about alexander hamilton.

Speaker 2 28:11

They're like, and then it's like whoa, this is amazing. Drop done.

Speaker 1 28:18

Need more of that no one's laughing now. Yeah, 2009,. That happened. The White House Evening of Poetry, music and Spoken Word. And they laughed at them. Mama Amanda, how rude of them.

Speaker 2 28:30

Now this podcast mentions documentaries quite a lot.

Speaker 1 28:35

I know there is yeah, and now there is a lot of I know there is yeah.

Speaker 2 28:38

And now there is a lot of documentaries that go alongside Hamilton. I have watched them all Of course you have. But I think the best one is called Hamilton's America.

Speaker 1 28:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:50

And it was a special that PBS did, and I think that this one's the best one because you've also got Lin-Manuel Miranda talking in it and about it, and just behind the scenes, but sometimes there as well. So there's a real mix. There's loads and loads of documentaries, just like how it started, you know, while it was on, you know other people you know having their say of why it was so successful. But nobody can really understand really the phenomenon that is hamilton.

Speaker 1 29:20

it just blew up and well, that's it and you had mentioned in in the heights there, and it was actually during a break from uh in the heights, uh, on a holiday to me, mexico in 2007, where Lin-Manuel Miranda, as your daughter mentioned, was reading the 2004 biography of Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow and he said as I'm reading this, I'm thinking this is the biggie, this is Tupac, this is hip-hop. In my ideal vision for this project, we get really amazing rappers to play these different parts. Yeah, and that's where it all kind of started. And, as you said, then another concept album, this hamilton mixtape, which then appeared in the in the white house and it's very early to forms.

Speaker 1 30:17

He. He composed Hamilton over a seven-year period Like that's a long time to work on a musical, from 2008 to 2015. And then, as you said, accumulating sorry, in his off-Broadway limited engagement at the Public Theatre, which sold out despite three extensions. They extended that run three times and they were still selling the tickets. So it was, it was gonna have a broadway transfer, wasn't it? Yeah, and that happened on the 6th of august 2015 and that's in that documentary as well.

Speaker 2 30:53

You can see um that happening and how excited they are um about moving it to broadway. Yeah, but, the thing was by 2009. Um, he had only written two songs and it was they're going to be very old at the time. So he really had to pick up the pace. And he talks about it where he just wrote every road on the tube or the subway. He wrote in the kitchen. He even wrote in Aaron Burr's bedroom. He just wrote and wrote and wrote.

Record-Breaking Success and Awards

Speaker 1 31:25

It's quite ironic, isn't it? Because he sounds like Alexander Hamilton. He was a prolific writer and he was, as the lyrics say, he was writing like he was running out of time. You know, clearly, miranda was writing because he was running out of time to get this musical on the road. I mean, the show became a real like status symbol, like complete with celebrity visitors and sky high ticket prices, uh, which remain to this day, and it's one of it's part of my issue with it. I have a few issues with Hamilton. Um, some justified, I know, in my, even in my own opinion, some unjustified, but I have them and I I just I haven't seen it yet live. I've seen the pro shot, but I refuse to pay that price to go and see something I've already seen on tv.

Speaker 1 32:22

do you know what I mean? Yeah, um, and from what I've seen on TV, I'm okay with not rushing to the theatre to see it. Do you know what I mean? Hey, I'm going to have haters for this, but you're not a history person, oh far from that was my other issue. It's just too clever for me. I can't keep up.

Speaker 2 32:44

And I think the difference between Hamilton and Six, where they're both talking about historical figures. Six is much more of a concert than a musical about a historical event.

Speaker 1 32:55

But Six. Also does it the history in seven or eight numbers, not 42.

Speaker 2 33:02

This is obviously very long, because it's his lifespan, you know.

Speaker 1 33:07

Of course, yeah.

Speaker 2 33:07

Obviously so much went on with the revolution and the establishing, you know the United States and everything. But yeah, I think it's fair. If you're not somebody who loves history, then already this is a topic that you're not going to fall madly in love with this is a topic that you're not going to fall madly in love with.

Speaker 1 33:27

It's fair. But listen, who am I? Because the show received uniformly positive reviews and high box office sales. When the musical opened in Broadway, it had a multi-million dollar advance in ticket sales, reportedly taking in $30 million before its official opening. Like what show can say they have that those pre-sales by September 2015,. The show was sold out for most of its Broadway engagement. It was the second highest-grossing show on Broadway for the Labour Day week, which began on the 6th of September 2015, behind only the Lion King. It's hard to beat the Lion King isn't it?

Speaker 1 34:04

Broadway set a box office, a Broadway box office record for the most money grossed in a single week in New York City in late November 2016, when it grossed $3.3 million for an eight performance week the first show to break the $3 million in an eight eight performance record.

Speaker 2 34:29

This is a mad amount of money, isn't it?

Speaker 1 34:31

Crazy, crazy, crazy and like is it slowing down?

Speaker 2 34:35

No.

Speaker 1 34:36

Absolutely not. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 34:38

I know we laugh about this, but obviously we know outside of the West End Chicago has a massive, you know, like West End has a massive theater district and the day I left, hamilton arrived.

Speaker 1 34:52

Oh no.

Speaker 2 34:55

But I know Americans are much bigger about anything. But Chicago was going crazy for Hamilton returning and it had already been in Chicago and it was just returning for 16 weeks and every news outlet was talking about it, like everywhere it was going Hamilton's back, hamilton's, it's Hamilton season, it's. You know, go to this theatre, get your dinner here. It was going crazy and I was like this show has already been in this city and it's also still in the West End and it's also on a tour right now. Why are we going mental?

Speaker 1 35:32

for it and like start counting now, because that's one UK tour like you just watch.

Speaker 1 35:39

Yeah, it'll just keep going, it will just keep coming and coming and coming and coming, and so will the people. It was also critically acclaimed, too, At the 70th Tony Awards. Hamilton received a record-breaking 16 nominations, winning 11 Tony Awards, including Best Musical, Best Book, Best Score, Best Direction, Best Actor for Leslie Odom Jr not Neymar Miranda, interestingly. Best Featured Actor for Leslie Odom Jr Not Nama Miranda. Interestingly. Best Featured Actor for David Diggs. Best Featured Actress for Renee Ellis-Golsberg. Best Costume, Best Lighting, Choreography and Orchestrations.

Speaker 2 36:19

Cha-ching yeah and eight Drama Desk Awards.

Speaker 1 36:24

That's it and interestingly I thought this was interesting multiple nominations in the acting categories, which meant, although they were nominated for 16, they only could win 13 of them. Oh, my goodness. So 11 out of 13 possible Tonys, you know, like that's some record, that is. It also received the 2016 Pulitzer Prize for Drama and a Grammy Award for the cast recording.

Speaker 2 36:54

Yeah, and that original cast obviously seemed to have a very special bond. You mentioned it there when you were talking to CJ. They came back there for the 10 year at the Tonys and I thought it was a really great mashup because it wasn't the typical.

Speaker 1 37:10

Dare I say it it was a better performance than their original Tony performance.

Speaker 2 37:14

Well, I liked that everybody had a little bit of their signature song. Yeah, and yeah, I liked that they were all dressed in black. Some people say that it was a political choice, their direction, but hey-ho, I think that they're a very special cast. They're all incredibly talented. Say what you want about Lin-Manuel Miranda. He wrote the musical he's going to star himself.

Speaker 1 37:41

Oh listen, I don't actually think that's an issue. I don't think it's an ego thing at all. I mean, he's the one that knew it best. So if you're going to showcase your work to the world for the very first time, you're gonna put yourself in it because you're. I don't think it was a case of I need to do this to show you know, show off.

Speaker 1 38:01

I think it was. It was just a security thing for his baby, wasn't it? Um, he also reprised his role of Alexander Hamilton when the show ran at the University of Puerto Rico in 2019, and I thought that was for him. You know that'll have been a really special moment too. Cameron McIntosh, or Sir Cameron McIntosh, produced the London production that reopened the Victoria Palace Theatre on December the 21st 2017. There's another issue I have, because Hamilton kicked out a very special musical.

Speaker 2 38:40

Who.

Speaker 1 38:41

It kicked Billy Elliot out.

Speaker 2 38:43

Oh Well, we all know how I feel about Billy Elliot and I truly believe Billy Elliot would still be playing.

Speaker 1 38:49

Do you think so?

Speaker 2 38:50

Yeah, I do, but why did it not just move to a different theatre?

Speaker 1 38:53

I don't know, but I'm very sad about that. I was very sad at the time and when I heard why it was Now, obviously they Well, it's interesting they did big alterations and big, you know, refurbishments to the theatre for Hamilton coming in, but anyway we're not, won't go there.

Setting Up Part Two

Speaker 1 39:11

The London production was nominated for 10 Olivier's, winning seven, including Best New Musical Outstanding Achievement in Music. Giles Torreira won Best Actor for his role as Aaron Burr. Michael Gibson won for Best supporting actor for King George that's right. It also got best lighting, best sound and best choreographer and, as you've said, 2010 brought along the filmed version, which is Seven Hours Too Long 2020. Yeah, did I not say? Say that I thought you said 2010 oh, maybe I did, but, as you can see, my 25 pages of notes.

Speaker 2 39:54

It does say 2020, I think I said the wrong theater earlier, so it's fine where did you? Say, oh, there's no, oh, I've just dropped something across the room. Um, yeah, so a lot to learn, not just in the background. So, as you heard, there so a lot to learn, not just in the background. So, as you heard, there is a lot to learn. We've decided to split this episode into two parts, so please make sure you tune in next week and you can hear all about our musical lyrical lingos of Hamilton.