Delicate, their musical. Taylor Swift meets Greys Anatomy.

Meet the creative minds behind "Delicate," a groundbreaking new musical emerging from Belfast that's already making waves across the UK theatre scene. In this captivating conversation, teachers-turned-playwrights Dermot and Victoria share their remarkable journey from classroom daydreams to sold-out performances in Belfast and London.

Their creation – described as "Grey's Anatomy meets Taylor Swift" – represents something rarely seen in Northern Ireland's theatre landscape: an ambitious, commercially-minded production that steps away from local themes to explore universal emotional experiences. The duo reveals how they navigated music licensing directly with Universal Music Group, assembled a talented creative team, and transformed Taylor Swift's lyrical storytelling into a compelling narrative exploring coercive relationships, grief, and self-empowerment.

What makes this story particularly inspiring is the grassroots, self-funded nature of their project. Without major backing or previous playwriting experience, they've created something that resonated powerfully with audiences in two cities. Their workshop performances have garnered enthusiastic reviews, with emotional audience reactions validating their creative choices. The conversation delves into the challenges they faced – from last-minute casting emergencies to technical limitations – and how each obstacle ultimately strengthened the production.

The passion these creators bring to their work is infectious, whether discussing the joy of seeing their words performed, the collaborative spirit of their cast and crew, or their plans to take "Delicate" to Edinburgh Fringe. Their story reminds us what musical theatre ultimately teaches us: that there's a unique community spirit among theatre people, and that for a few magical hours, we can escape into beautifully crafted emotional worlds. Follow their journey on Instagram and TikTok @delicatemusical to witness the next chapter in this remarkable Northern Irish success story.

End of MLL

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:30

Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts, Tim and LJ.

Speaker 2 0:34

Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us. And this week it's not just us two, we have got two guests.

Speaker 1 0:42

We've got friends. We're not on our own.

Speaker 2 0:45

We're not on our own. We're going to be interviewing oh my goodness, it's super exciting more people from Northern Ireland who seem to love musical theatre.

Speaker 1 0:55

Yeah, and not only love musical theatre, but are doing something about it. Yes, something very, very exciting, something that there's not a huge amount happens here and that's writing their own musicals, which is very, very exciting.

Speaker 2 1:11

Yeah, so today we have Dermot and Victoria from Belfast, who have written a contemporary musical, and we are going to discuss more about this because they've had a couple of workshops in Belfast and in London and we certainly want to know how the process has been going. So welcome guys. Thank you for joining us on our podcast.

Speaker 1 1:35

Are you guys not exhausted? You've had a very busy time over the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 1:39

Yeah, shattered, and then we've just started back into actual work. We're both teachers, so we just started back into work yesterday.

Speaker 1 1:46

I was just thinking, coming here tonight because I'm a teacher too, and I was like this is probably the worst week you could have got these. There's no content, so it's fine. It's a distraction, isn't it? When teaching is really bad, you just turn to musical theatre, right?

Speaker 4 2:02

You know the way for it. I love when I get asked do you teach drama? Then no.

Speaker 2 2:10

Love it. So, yes, del, delicate then is your musical. So it's a new workshop, musical contemporary with a unique premise. So the best way to describe it would be Grey's Anatomy meets Taylor Swift, isn't that right?

Speaker 3 2:23

yeah, that's kind of the way that we've been going with it, not not our words, but sort of the words of anybody that's kind of seen it and people who kind of we talk to about it and they kind of go. That's a way to sum it up.

Speaker 2 2:32

But yeah, that's kind of the idea behind it, but it's it's an awful lot more than that, yeah and I say it's not like any characters from those things it's just using the elements from it yeah, so it's using the high stakes elements of surgery and then romance and all that stuff that goes along with it and she's you know, my 13 year old daughter would definitely say she's a lyrical genius and she's just wonderful. So I mean, taylor Swift's songs have so much heart to them.

Speaker 4 3:00

So yeah, so that kind of it's she story tells like sometimes it doesn't work at all and that's why some certain songs aren't in it. But but consider, it was really hard to narrow down actually what ones to use, because so many tell it so well they're trying to actually pick which ones was and still is a journey. Um, so yeah, she is a lyrical genius 100% before we get into delegate.

Speaker 1 3:25

Look, I want to know a bit more about you guys. So has musical theatre always been in your life? Like, were you involved in musical theatre? Like, when was the first? When was the first time that you realized? Oh, actually, I really like this kind of.

Speaker 3 3:41

I could be here a while. Do you want to go first?

Speaker 4 3:44

um, I grew up with it like, my mom introduced me to grace and then hairspray and then all those things. I just love watching it. Um, never had the talent to actually be in it. Um, I wasn't even allowed to be in the school choir. I was that bad at singing, um, so I've always watched um, sadly, um, I'm very, very good in the background. I was always like who needs to be here, who needs makeup, who needs clothes, who needs props? That was always me, um, so backstage always, always in the black, um, but never got to be kind of front and center, still not front and center, still in the back having a great time, um, but yeah, they always loved them and enjoy watching them, enjoy seeing them. Um, it's been a huge part of our relationship as well, um, but in terms of background, just get, I'm a big fan you're different.

Speaker 3 4:35

well, yes, yes and no, um, I I started into musical theater whenever I was 11, so I like the primary school, you do shows and all the rest of it, you know, at the end, you know christmas time and all that stuff. And my godmother, um, told me about a youth theatre project that was going on in the summer just whenever I was transferring into secondary school and it was Bugsy Malone and it was with Youth Action Northern Ireland's Rainbow Factory. I went down, I auditioned and I got the role of Leroy, so Bugsy's friend and boxer and all that jazz. And from then I joined Rainbow Factory and I was in there for probably about 10 years and I was doing their summer shows and different things like that and a lot of workshops that they were starting to work on original material and their own stuff as well. And I actually got a bit of a leg up there because in 2005, myself and a couple of other guys wrote their Christmas Panto, so it was based on Christmas Carol, but we turned it into a pantomime, so obviously using music from pop culture and things like that, and then we transferred the Charles Dickens book into a panto style and that was kind of the first time I'd ever written anything before.

Speaker 3 5:45

I think it was before 2018, um, and then from that I'd sort of started to dip the toe a little bit. I auditioned for Any Dream Will Do in the BBC, which is oh, there is video evidence today there is video evidence, but it's minuscule, so he was on TV.

Speaker 4 6:06

He was on TV, he was on TV.

Speaker 3 6:08

I'm teaching now so it didn't pay off. And then I took a step away from it all those who can't teach and started doing teaching drama instead.

Speaker 4 6:19

He actually teaches drama. That's right.

Speaker 3 6:22

And then fast forward to last year and Victoria turned around and said do you know who's never done a jukebox musical? Or has anybody ever done a jukebox musical about using Taylor Swift music? Quick google, uh, nope, nobody's done it. One guy tried it in uni in America for his, like, final year project, um, and that's it. So I went yeah, we'll figure out rights and stuff like that, though, but let's just, let's just put a script together and we'll see what we're doing. And that's the first time I've written anything. Well, I'd written a novelty along with you in 20 years and it was like I like this, see where all this can go. And then we started to get people on board and people who would work with us and help us with music, because we're not musically gifted.

Speaker 4 7:17

And here we are now talking to you guys. That's where I came in very handy. I will talk to anybody and see if I can get anyone on board. So, um, in school obviously there's a music department. I became really really good friends with a music teacher and I've now came to her as my best friend and she was like I'd love to do a musical. So that is Miss Kimberly Ward. Um, so she has been, yeah, vital in getting this kind of going as well.

Speaker 4 7:36

So so then, between the three of us we had and just kind of started to run with it and we did the scratch night, um, which was like a little workshop it's actually about two randomly but we didn't know how we're going to do bigger numbers with a very small cast and just for the piano. So we picked those kind of that kind of section and then it took off quite well and it was good. And then did the Belfast accidental theatre show and it sold out, which was really cool. And then I say they went to London, so that was really fun. So we sent our script out to different theatres and things like that, and then it was then them offering to bring us over.

Speaker 2 8:13

You've mentioned it briefly, then we mentioned it before. So the first book workshop was at Accidental Theatre in Belfast on the 8th of August, and then you went to London Phoenix Art Club is that right on August the 13th? So that was pretty tight to put us together.

Origins and Inspiration

Speaker 3 8:28

So, like Victoria was saying, we kind of came up with the whole sort of well say the whole, like we came up with the concept and then we started putting our scenes and stuff together and we saw there was an opportunity, an accidental in may that you could do like a scratch night. Um, so basically the three of us myself, myself, victoria and Kimberly, who's our MD got together. We stuck out a casting call on Instagram. We got four people involved who were either from here or are based here now and they came on to the New Scratch Night with us. We picked three scenes that we had written from Act two that were all kind of consecutive from each other, um, just to kind of get a bit of a flavor of what it could look like, and from that we had to do that to get right, so we had to get things, so you had to do like a little snippet she had like a little portable studio to send the recordings to universal.

Speaker 4 9:30

So we had to send that off then as well. So they knew what kind of what we were doing with the music, and so that was, that was swamps as well, kind of turning our rehearsal space into a recording studio, um. So that was really cool, so like a little mini cast album of three songs yeah, also very scary.

Speaker 1 9:46

Like universal are big, big people to be dealing with. Like how did that feel working with those types of organizations?

Speaker 3 9:55

that's huge definitely not, definitely not gonna um make it sound as simple or sorry, I'm gonna make it sound more simple than that it is in the case of email.

Speaker 4 10:04

You just you know you reach out and you contact it was funny that when they first got a reply, he was like I don't want to open this. It was like no, why did we do this? And I actually was like, oh okay.

Speaker 3 10:19

So we were naive at the start, because you're trying to reach out to her people.

Speaker 4 10:23

One minute on her podcast. She hasn't opened her messages, so it's sitting there.

Speaker 3 10:29

It's sitting there somewhere but you're trying to reach out to, to her people directly in her management. Um, and you know you get nowhere. And then went on a bit more of a deep dive and looked at licensing laws and how those kind of things go around, because it's, it's written, it's all there but obviously cannot go to stage. Emailed universal music group. Emailed Universal Music Group and basically they explained to us um, first of all emailed America and America says we don't deal with this, it'll be UK because obviously of where we are. So it was like they actually forwarded on. They didn't even say like contact them, they just passed it all, which was great, that was really good of them. Um, and then universal uk got back to us and said right, let us know which songs you intend on using, how much, how much of that song are?

Speaker 3 11:18

you changing anything. Give us all the details that you can. We realize that some of these details you might not be able to give until after you do it. Yeah, so go ahead, do it, get back to us and then we'll discuss after that. If there's, you know what licenses have to be paid, what different things need to come from that, and that's it, and yeah it sounds yeah, and then depending on your venue as well.

Speaker 4 11:43

The licenses that they have in the venue covers you, yeah so it's.

Speaker 3 11:48

It was quite an interesting process because you got to kind of see how smaller things like this can sort of start out and then you kind of can build it from there. But once you kind of open that channel of communication, then it starts to get an awful lot easier.

Speaker 4 12:02

It's actually a lot scarier the bigger it gets.

Speaker 1 12:06

What was the timescale then? Was there a lot of hanging around waiting on an email to know whether it was a go, or could we do this, or was it quite quick?

Speaker 4 12:16

We didn't have the Belfast or it was after the scratch night. Basically, we didn't book anything or make any plans until we got back from them. It kind of was just will, we, will, we Will we, and then it all worked out.

Speaker 3 12:28

It was quite quick. Yeah, the email was about two weeks, but two weeks turn around with actual communication and stuff with them, which was quite good, that's really good.

Speaker 2 12:37

Actually, you're working with somebody. I think we still see ourselves as a very small little country. You're from here. Nobody really wants to talk to you.

Speaker 3 12:48

We're so self-deprecating, we're so like low levels of self-deprecating. It's just like for anybody that you know has an idea or an aspiration.

Speaker 4 12:57

Except you can't do, taylor.

Speaker 3 12:58

Yes, I mean, that's what I was just going to say.

Speaker 4 13:04

That's loads of hope and hopefully that does give some of our listeners a bit of hope to be like if of our listeners a bit of hope to be like if you've got an idea, just go for it, because you might not be in months and months and months. Yeah, like what's. But what's the worst and and we joked all along and it still might happen the worst thing's gonna happen is I'm gonna get a signed thing from taylor saying stop, and I mean I get a signed autograph from taylor.

Speaker 1 13:22

So I mean it's a win, win, really. Yes, you're the swift in the relationship, isn't that right, victoria?

Speaker 3 13:27

you are, I started she, she started, is it? We did a, we did a. We had a chat with the bbc before the accidental one and very much it's uh. When we got together she introduced me to an awful lot of songs and I went and grace and then that was very much like okay, well, yes, I like this, this is good, and then you're 50 dollars. He actually, like we do quizzes and stuff on youtube, see if we can guess what song in like okay, well, yes, I like this, this is good, you're $50. Yes, I am, I am.

Speaker 4 13:51

Right out of kindergarten. He actually like we do quizzes and stuff on YouTube to see if we can guess what song in like the first 10 seconds and he gets the names quicker than I do sometimes I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4 13:59

Oh, there we go so he's all like no, you do, but yeah, no, it does give people it's a case of seeing it Like it was our dream, even just getting it to where we got it in London, like that was incredible. As far as it goes, hopefully it's not I mean bigger plans, but you know, I mean that was still incredible, like we're still at a high from it, like you know.

Speaker 3 14:19

And it's like what you were saying at the start. You know, we our and it's so kind of parochial as well, in terms of an awful lot of the stuff that we get written for stage here is very us. There's nothing, you know, it's things that relate to our cultural backgrounds or our history or whatever kind of comes through or extreme comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we just, and again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that?

Speaker 4 14:52

That is not in any way to undermine that gap.

Speaker 3 14:53

But that was the thing. There was a gap. There is, like not many people have sort of reached out to do the commercially bigger scale stuff yeah and because that all that stuff sells out.

Speaker 3 15:03

theaters, like you'll just look at anywhere like the lyric or in the opera house or anywhere in and around belfast, or even the mining forum in derry or whatever, and a lot of our local stuff just sells because people want to go, people want to support it, or in the Opera House or anywhere in and around Belfast or even the Millennium Forum in Derry or whatever, and a lot of our local stuff just sells because people want to go, people want to support it. So we just went right. There's a gap here in the market. Can we do something commercially bigger or hopefully bigger scale at a certain point that everybody on stage, even if they're from here, is talking in an American accent?

Story Development and Character Creation

Speaker 4 15:28

Because, just because, yeah, that was hilarious stage, even if they're from here, is talking in an american accent. Because, just because, yeah, it was actually a friend of ours who already goes to nots like in taylor and american or in, and I went I was like no, no, no, no, it's america, it's fine, that'll do, I'm grand, that'll do. And that was it. I never even like thought that far ahead and went.

Speaker 1 15:54

No, with regards to the writing process two, two questions, two things that are in my mind that I'm really interested to know. How long does? Did that process of actually writing delicate take and what? What came first? Is that chicken and egg question? What? What you decided on the, the, the taylor, swift songs that you wanted and then fit the storyline around that, or had you the storyline first?

Speaker 4 16:20

a bit of both um and also we do have like a backup of other things.

Speaker 4 16:24

If taylor doesn't, because the story doesn't have to end there's other artists that will, hopefully, because that taylor's taylor's mecca, like she's like um. But there's other other artists I'll not say who they are yet um, that we could use. Um, but it was a mix um. There's one song that was in our scratch performance, um, which is you're losing me, and um, part of that um song and it always sits with us. It's nearly if you ever watch grez. There's a bit in grez where it's pick me, choose me, love me, and she kind of says that in the song um, and it just it, not exactly, but it's kind of hinted at and kind of. From that we kind of went out and that was so. Certain songs kind of built it like we knew, we were like we were listening in the car and we were like that's our opening number and that was it and you know things like that. But a couple of ones stood out and then after that it was a case of whatever one stood out with the story so a bit of both.

Speaker 3 17:17

We had a theme and we had a story that we wanted to tell and there was a couple of elements of it like the whole sort of I'd say it's not based. We've had like in the hair and that's actually winter. Sorry, you've got like the doctor. Is the love interest? Um, you know there's a new hospital scene in devils, proud of, because there you go but so like that hadn't ever really been approached before and it was like, well, there's something original straight off the bat is costuming is also very easy, it is very easy, very easy.

Speaker 3 18:00

And then we had this idea of we wanted to show a kind of a Torrid love relationship.

Speaker 4 18:06

Well, it had to be again. Go back to her songs for the really like good storytelling. It's usually about her not having someone or wanting someone she couldn't have or things like that. So it was like well, okay, where do we go from here?

Speaker 3 18:23

But we wanted to not that it's wholly and utterly flipped, because we still like our. The initial idea was that we were going to do sort of a bit of a last five years from two people's perspectives. We would still have other characters in it.

Speaker 4 18:34

That's why it's called their Musical.

Speaker 3 18:35

Their Musical.

Speaker 4 18:37

As we got more and more cast involved. People were incredible. We were like oh, but we can make your role better right scenes and roles here.

Speaker 3 18:45

Yeah, but that kind of idea then and I was going to look at um from the female side of things about how to build yourself back up again, how to give yourself um strength whenever you've been let down by someone in your life going through grief, going through a different thing but you still need someone in your life as well, someone who could be there as a support.

Speaker 3 19:06

It's not just a I don't need a man element, but you can also do it on your own if you need to. And then, from the male perspective, we looked at something then that wasn't really looked at before, which was coercive relationships, where the man is on the receiving end of an abusive home relationship. He's with someone who undermines him, who makes him feel inferior, and it's something that hasn't really been explored either. So it was trying to sort of find these different themes that you don't see commonly used. Obviously they're talked about in different ways and different sort of things like TV and stuff, but it was just something that wasn't there in the musical, so there's a weightiness to it. And then we also have thrown in a drag queen.

Speaker 4 19:53

Just lighten everything up. Back to the hers and his thing. It's the story of our thing. It's the head and the heart. So that's the story of our thing. It's it's the head and the heart. Um, so that's the whole idea of like she, she, the the female character technically does everything, follows her heart, just follows what she wants to do. And with the male character it's very much everything to do with the head and how they go about things, having a focus on that and then how that kind of changes. And again, if you've got a heart surgeon and a brain surgeon, because why not? Um, and it just kind of ties that together. But it is that whole idea of when you're dealing with something that might be questionable do you follow your head or do you follow your heart? But yes, and randomly, you have to have a good patient. It just made sense and I really, really love drag there's nothing wrong with a drag, queen Yep.

Speaker 4 20:32

It's a shame.

Speaker 1 20:33

I'm seen later to die. I hope you come back in that too, like as a ghost or something, for a second.

Speaker 4 20:46

That's a laugh. No, I know. It was trying to find a character that people would click with quite quickly, and that's the thing about Grez and again, not taking from them but the idea that those were really big episodes that really hit, or when you connect with like a patient and then they go. Do you know what I mean? So we had to try and like be like, why not? Yeah, um, so like, and again, that's a. That's an interesting way to be like happy days. You can have this character and then, like it just happened remember when we had our um, the accidental one, we heard a gasp when that happened and yeah, you did a good job, because when I was watching it I heard the gasp too, and I went oh

Speaker 3 21:26

they got the feels they got the feels it happened.

Speaker 4 21:29

It happened in london as well, so we've hit it twice yeah, it's so funny about owen like comes off the stage and he was like they love me, so it was really funny perspective as well but I know that was.

Speaker 3 21:52

That was something that came back from. So we've had a couple of reviews and stuff from london which again it's just it's nice to kind of get that, because then we can use it for our next phases and stuff. And that was one thing that came back was about the kind of the quickness of that thing with it, and this was an unfortunate thing about doing that there there was other scenes written, but in London we only were like an hour so we had to cut an awful again, and the reason why then accidental's in the same length is because we obviously had to do one, do the other.

Speaker 3 22:19

We didn't want to start cutting things from one scene, so it's like we had to go back, go right, take that.

Workshop Challenges and Productions

Speaker 4 22:24

But at least it kind of makes sort of cohesive sense but it's there in the big story, so it's like, but it's there and then, well, I've kind of said this before, but so the endings are kind of what we're really excited about, um. So I've always had this idea and I'm still writing. One of them is having different endings, alternative endings, so that's a big thing. So, again, I can't decide how I want it to end, so I'm just going to write three different endings and see what happens. And then it means you get more songs. It's great, and the actors are all like this is great, something different and something to keep them excited about it. And they're all excited about what their ending would be, or like what they would want, um, so that's been terrible as well well, you sort of mentioned it there and this is something I was intrigued by.

Speaker 2 23:09

So workshops and people who aren't involved in musical theatre or even like um drum processes or anything like that, don't realize that it takes an awful lot of work to go from idea to full bloom production. So what do you have? Your two workshops, what were the goals? And then, what do you think you've learned from being post the the workshops now?

Speaker 4 23:31

well, I remember our production manager, tanya, tanya DeVore. She's helping us out, but she was like you're not just standing, the music stands, you're doing costumes, you're doing it's a work. And we're like, yeah, live, why not? So that was. That was the first kind of adoption was like, oh okay, I'll let you take the rest of it but that was just always a laugh.

Speaker 3 23:52

So one of our dogs has decided to squeak um. No, what we wanted to take from it was we wanted to see if the, if the production could have legs, if it had an opportunity to be able to grow into something. We had this idea. The idea sounded great in our heads, um, it looked good on on paper, um, and we were happy with it. Can we get a group of people together to put this on this stage to see if it actually connects, to see if it actually there's something there in it? And that was the main goal of it knowing that we could do it within the confines of licensing, knowing that we could do it on a small scale to start off with, to kind of but we also try to do a big stage production on a small stage try and get people to see what could happen if we could get it in a bigger space and if we could kind of get that moving and then and then from doing the two workshops, we learned that, yes, that is a potential, there's a possibility for it.

Speaker 3 24:48

There we've had, you know, from the reviews and stuff that we got from it yeah, all the reviews were yeah, of course.

Speaker 4 24:53

Obviously it's a workshop, it's going to be things to fix but all of them were very much like.

Speaker 3 24:56

It's a start of something you know and there was a lot of encouragement from, from things that were written and and it was a case of keep an eye out for it, and that was what we wanted. We wanted to know showing act one that we could get somewhere, um, and we have kind of learned from that that we can't.

Speaker 4 25:15

We need to tweak an awful lot of things of what we want to do in terms of adding in those extra scenes that we had, what we're going to do about an ending, um, but no, in terms of the goals, like our goals were to make it as full-scale production as we possibly could, we were a little bit shy of it in london because we even were going to add a bit of like digital, like um, oh my gosh, if I can not think of the word the phoenix ice club had like a digital screen and we had planned on and we have.

Speaker 4 25:39

We have the visuals and things like that as well, but we ran out of tech time and couldn't get that done. So again, in terms of making goals like not everything came to fruition, but again, that's why we had phil costume as props, but props were hilarious because we had an ivy stand as a mic stand and we had, um sorry, a mic stand as an ivy bag.

Speaker 4 25:54

We had, like these fit tree things as CPR you know, and then the realization of doing the surgery scene as well that you pointed out was the fact that you can't. Actually I was ordering like scalpels and all and it was like we can't do that, you can't actually have sharp objects on a stage.

Speaker 4 26:12

So it's butter knives and tweezers. But you know, you know you do what you do and it's it's funny, you know. So it was trying to make it as full production as we possibly could, you know, with the music. And again, we would have loved a full band. But fair play to Kimberly. Like she does make that piano, play drums and play disco beats somehow, I didn't know, doing DJ in school would let you do that. But there you go. So like how she changes that my revolve song, it kills me every time. It's just like it turns into a club with the piano. Yeah, so I mean incredible, but again would love to have you know more sound and things like that as well. So in terms of the goals, it's kind of how far could we have gone?

Speaker 3 26:56

and I'd say on a whole we got 95 of it where we wanted it to be and the feedback's been helpful absolutely yeah, and, like we, we asked the audience an accidental um, especially because we had the time, you know, to give us feedback. We set up a qr code with over the feedback form for comments, things like that that they liked, obviously, which is good, so that we know what we can maintain, and then things that they thought might, you know, might need tweaked, or that they didn't fully understand, or something where there's gaps, and we've been able to take that. Um, today was the first day, so I had a little bit of free time um, looking, so I started looking over the script again how have you got free time this week?

Speaker 1 27:38

it was called lunch and um.

Speaker 3 27:43

So basically then started to have a look over some of the scenes and stuff and sort of filling in little gaps and there's some things that the reviewers were saying that we've answered in act two or that we've maybe caught already.

Speaker 4 27:53

Oh right, so we do need that in there, or things like that there was the odd thing that was like, oh, that's actually really helpful as well, that we hadn't thought about, but there was. It was really reassuring, when we read the reviews as well, to be like, oh, those questions that are being asked, we have answered those, you know, in our own head, like people didn't see it, but like, obviously, what we already written it was like, ah, that's okay, um, so that's. And again, so I didn't mention.

Speaker 3 28:13

Obviously, with the putting the production on as well, like the choreography the girls did so good yeah, so part of that within, because of how, but you need dance numbers in a musical like yeah, while we were trying to set up this production we were very fortunate to get chatting on to that in a bit about the cast and stuff that we had, but the two people that we had in for choreograph as our choreographers had literally just finished their musical theatre course over in London.

Speaker 3 28:41

They chose, they're both from Ireland, but they chose us over their final course piece. What that's exciting. They saw it as an opportunity for themselves, obviously, to kind of put themselves into the professional sphere. As professionals, we were not paid by profits, but it gave them an opportunity and just to be choreographers as well as a part of it. And so they had to go through an assessment while they were with us. We had to assess them lucky we're teachers, um, and so that was the all that process. But they they turned out really, really, really good, really good numbers all very different and it was.

Speaker 3 29:19

It was great to kind of have that, because I'm not a mover. I did dance a long time ago but again not very well. So it was good to kind of have that.

Speaker 1 29:30

You might not be a mover, but you're a singer because you had a few awards in the Phoenix Theatre yourself. How, what? How did that happen? How did you do this? I don't know. How did that end up being spoken about?

Taylor Swift Songs and Licensing Process

Speaker 3 29:43

That was an 11th hour thing. So unfortunately, the person who we had cast within the role of Sean just circumstances beyond his control, he couldn't do it anymore and he very professionally contacted us on the Tuesday and said, look, I'm really sorry, but so on and so forth, that he wasn't going to be able to fulfill either of the dates because of circumstances. And we sat there for a minute and went right, we have prepared for this and because and it was, it was a case of because we it was so funny it took me a night of like talking to like the girls.

Speaker 4 30:25

So like kevin and tanya to be like my husband has to like kiss someone else funny.

Speaker 1 30:32

I said that to lauren. I was like very brave to be doing that bit I had to direct I I like the delicate scene.

Speaker 4 30:39

I had to direct it like this was so hilarious. And then there keeps being. There's a line in it like does the girl at home touch you? Like I do it every single time. I was like I do so that was funny. Tell her, I do.

Speaker 3 30:54

Tell her, I do it was funny as well. There was um in in the scratch performance that we did um the uh, the girl who played Paige um is an old friend of mine from Rainbow Factory. Now she got cast like I hadn't spoken to her probably in about 15 years, um, so it's like we could put her through the proper channels and all the cast her and then she couldn't do this run because she's expecting and she's very close, I think she could go any day but she came to see us last week in Phoenix and we had this little moment of just like.

Speaker 3 31:27

This is really like weird, but after about 15 years I'm watching you on stage again. I was like I know it's very, very surreal, but it was good, it was fun and it was enjoyable everyone's joked as well.

Speaker 4 31:38

He really wanted to do the london date, so we're also. We also wonder you know what, what, what he put to play to make that?

Speaker 3 31:46

happen. I'd like to go on record as saying that there was no final play. This was the big plan we've. We've written, we've put it together. You're not going to go to another actor in the space of three days and go here's 39 pages of script. Can you learn this?

Speaker 4 32:05

out of the block. The best part was one of the bits he really couldn't stand and couldn't learn. He was like who wrote this? I was like you did.

Speaker 3 32:15

It was good. It was good, it was good sense of self-evaluation, because I was like I really hate how this is written.

Speaker 2 32:19

It was probably going to be good actually for you to be there on the night, not as a writer, you know, as like a performer, to then see where does it flow for that character. So it all helped enhance the writing process as it goes on.

Speaker 3 32:36

Definitely, because, even going back over, looking at it again, because today was the first day that I had a look at it since okay for you. I'm busy teacher it was the first time that I've had a look at it since I went going over in my head then I've obviously seen how the performance was going going. Yeah, that that is a gap, that's a gap, that's the gap, and it was I got this on the phone call or the drive away home. And then I was like no, you're not changing that.

Speaker 4 33:03

I have a different idea for that.

Speaker 1 33:05

Is 95% of your time together just talking about your music.

Speaker 4 33:17

We went to Florida and it was really funny, like that was where we went before the show stuff kicked off in the beginning of summer and it was literally it was like thank god there's so much to do in Florida. You're like you're walking around the park and you went oh, here we're going back to the musical. And then it was on the flight back. It was like right, crap, what are we doing?

Speaker 4 33:34

we'll have like paper copies of the script and we'll look them through anyway with it now the cast already had it and stuff before then, like that was fine and stuff like that. But it was. It was like and randomly, do you remember, I ordered like a lot of the costumes sitting in finding nemo to come on. We wanted like the ac for a bit and we were really really early to a show and I was like we need to order these costumes sitting in a like pre-performance about 20 minutes and she's just flicking through various websites going like I can order this and this and this.

Speaker 2 34:02

There's all these spaces to get inspiration for theatre done. Well, isn't there?

Speaker 4 34:06

Yeah, it was true, I don't know why. At one point sitting there I went scrubs. Yeah, no, it was funny. But no, we do talk about it a lot, um like, but it's fun. And then there's different times we'll randomly just be, yeah, in the car or whatever, like I remember I rang you whenever I thought about the mirror ball thing and I was like, and then we come home and just write, and I remember like I just sat one evening and wrote things and then sent it to you and then it was just. That's been a lot of it as well. We like write sections and then send it to each other and then we kind of see where it fits in and we're like nearly adding it to each other's works.

Speaker 3 34:41

We'll edit it on each other's behalf and then we'll send it back over. And it's not even like we don't even designate, like you do, scenes one to five. I'll do this. It's just I've got an idea, for this came first, like we would have selected songs and we had like a bank of songs then we would have I know that one doesn't work because that's not telling that part of the story.

Speaker 4 35:02

I'm so sad, I really want it masterminded it, that was my official ending and it doesn't work anymore. And I, I clinged on to it till I literally, and you were like no, I literally took it out of my invisible, like no, so yeah, that's been a part of it as well, where you wanted things to work and they just don't work as well.

Speaker 2 35:19

You have to let go and understand. It's for the greater good, but it's just still a little bit hard.

Speaker 3 35:25

There were a couple of songs that were cut from Act 1 and I wasn't happy because it was like well, it's a lovely song and I've had to get music.

Speaker 4 35:31

He wants it enchanted.

Speaker 4 35:32

It's a great song. I was gone from the beginning, so that's also part of it, part of it as well and then, guilty of sin, he was trying to get rid of it the whole time. And then tanya me, and kimberly all loved it. So it was like no, but we basically had to cut it like tiny, so it was like only like a quarter of the song and then he was happy so would you say that's been one of the hardest parts of the process, then, like having to let go of those songs that mean a lot to you I think that's also being frustrated by songs you thought you loved yeah, yeah we had a moment where haunted just wasn't gonna be, it was gonna be what we wanted it to be, and I could listen to it for a week.

Speaker 3 36:12

I was like, nope, I'm triggered again very, including in the two of us as well. But we're very thankful for kimberly or md as well, because there was a lot not a lot, but like there was a good bit of rewriting that went on to kind of make things suit in the likes of Delicate and Dove.

Speaker 4 36:29

Drowning in these blue fans.

Speaker 3 36:30

Yeah, just little clever little tweaks that she decided to throw in, but it made it work. Then it helped to kind of carry the narrative of that.

Speaker 4 36:39

Yeah. So we had a couple of times just with her to kind of be like right, this is what the story's doing, this is what the song is saying. Can we change some of this? And we will work together then to rewrite it.

Speaker 4 36:48

It was like four hours in her house one afternoon just sit with a piano and go alright this, this, this, let's we know we went to be four hours it was so long, but yeah, no, that would probably be the hardest part. That, and then developing certain characters, or realising you haven't got enough time because I'm obsessed with writing essays upon essays, upon essays, and then I keep getting reminded it's not a TV show, it's a musical. So, not being able to develop characters how I'd like to as well, it's been a bit of like. How do you do that in such a short period of time?

Speaker 3 37:18

it's trying to find quick development and sometimes that doesn't come until you've got the actors on stage and you're trying to put the chemistry together to kind of see how they can move it along quickly. We're very grateful for having Ciara, who played Paige, who was great at just being able to kind of carry that character forward really quickly, because it is quite a prompt thing for.

Speaker 4 37:42

And adapt to different actors.

Speaker 3 37:45

As well. But it's very, very difficult to kind of get two people together, throw them together straight away and be like oh, this makes sense that you two should be in a relationship, and it's about the actor kind of trying to bring that forward in a kind of a genuine way. She did thatiantly, she did it really really well. Um, and catherine beforehand, whenever we were trying to figure all that out, because we in the scratch night, whenever we were trying to establish a relationship between those two and act two with no context to be able to go right, the two of you are in a relationship and it's volatile, shows that and again it came through. So we've been very fortunate to work with some really really good actors and um the fortunately so, uh laura who plays ellen.

Speaker 4 38:23

I mean, that character was meant to be just in and out and that was done, and she is just sensational the whole life.

Speaker 3 38:30

Sean's white character was just like I thought was this was the whole last five years, just two people perspective thing.

Speaker 4 38:38

After the scratch night we started writing her whole story.

Speaker 3 38:41

Because the audience received her. They thought she was great, so sassy, and we just went, yeah. And the funny thing about it was she auditioned for the role of Paige and then we put her in as Ellen and then, whenever it came around to the next time of casting, we were like, do you want to audition for Paige? We were like, no, this is my role, I'm playing Ellen. It was like, okay, she just walked in and she just ran with it.

Cast Experiences and Collaboration

Speaker 4 39:05

That was it? That's her. She's halfway and she's actually a true American.

Speaker 3 39:09

Yes, she is our only literal American.

Speaker 4 39:14

Very good, that was really fun for the cast as well, because the cast had to try Obviously doing the American accent, it was like. But there was actually times where she became more Northern Irish than anyone doing the American accent.

Speaker 2 39:26

That's so nice to hear how the actors have helped your process. You know we've talked um a lovely lady called nico who's written her her musical called millennials are killing musicals. If you haven't listened to it, definitely do. And just saying that on her workshops it was the actors that really sort of were able to say, well, this works better. And you know so definitely these are going to go far with having the respect of a whole creative team there and.

Speaker 4 39:51

I think we got a lot of feedback as well about collaboration and stuff, because it was a case of it's new work and we really wanted people to think. You might have had a meeting recently about people's. People were giving feedback out the whole time and we had a meeting about that. After you know something we couldn't change at this stage it was things to do in the future, but I mean, we were very lucky with who we had and it was, you know, for people who are fresh out and who are quite green and people who have been doing this for years. You know it was a lovely mix and it was people who were doing different things from it and it was hearing people's stories of being like I've been treading the boards for ages and I haven't got a chance to be on stage properly, like thank you for this chance.

Speaker 3 40:22

And then you know people who were taking fantastic, like they just were the big thing with this project is it's it's self-funded, it's it's independent, it's self-produced. You know, we have hopefully not for it and hopefully not forever.

Speaker 3 40:39

But like you know, we've, we've put basically it's all our own money into it. We've got a little bit of fundraising after the accidental night. Only it's like a raffle. We've got to go fund me and you had about 500 pound and you know everything else then is just from us and yeah, and then I know just the selling of the tickets in Accidental and Phoenix just to try and make some of those stuff back up again. But we also want to give and we will be giving money back to actors and stuff like that as well.

Speaker 4 41:12

So it'll be going back into the show they were joking about it, it not being a lot, but unfortunately musicals don't grow on trees.

Speaker 2 41:22

And that has to shine through.

Speaker 3 41:26

We've been watching Smash throughout this process as well. I came re-watching it because a few of you have seen it. It's great. It's a great TV show. And whenever they're going through their bombshell workshop and Eileen's talking about 200,000 for a two-week workshop and we're going.

Speaker 1 41:42

Yeah.

Speaker 3 41:47

We don't have that at all, but it's like I can see where loads of money just goes.

Speaker 1 41:55

What's been your favourite part of this whole process, then?

Speaker 4 41:59

Making everybody know, like seeing it all, like I said it and I'm sure you've seen it in that symbol, like clips although I didn't want to do that speech at the beginning, but let's not talk about that but I was really, really lucky, I say, before we literally did like a run through of the show and literally it was just me sitting there watching it all, picking up a few notes before they went, and I literally got a one-woman show and it was sensational, like just getting to see it and like what I've never written anything before.

Speaker 4 42:27

So getting to see like something that I've written like a men's day and actually be done, and I say they are so talented, like again, again, slight envy because I have no talent, um, but in the in the ability, in the ability to be able to like perform that, and it was even just the learning of the lines and everything, especially for you, because you were getting drilled by one of the cast members who was staying here being like you're gonna get this, um, but it was just seeing like the talent and seeing it all come to life and how everyone pulls together for a show and just kind of works together and gets it all in there. But I've always wanted more musical theatre friends. And I say, although they are cast, some of them have became friends over the time and it's been lovely to have that little joy spark that's mine anyway.

Speaker 3 43:09

Well, I think for me it is kind of hard to pin it down, similarly to yourself, just about kind of building up and building up this connection and this relationship with people. But I think it's my favorite thing probably would be the fact that it got there. You know it got made. You know there's a product that, as you say, whether this is well, we don't intend on it being, but you know we'll see what way obviously things turn out.

Speaker 3 43:37

our intention is obviously to carry it on further and we do have plans, but it's a thing of there's something there, there's there's a poster sitting in the hallway that something that the two of us did made it to stage. It made the stage in belfast, where we're from age, in london, and it's that's a huge, because not an awful lot of people will get that opportunity. So the fact that we were able to have so many things that we love.

Speaker 4 44:03

Well, personally, I love what we loved, I mean it was it was medical drama, it was taylor, it was drag. I was just like it was physically fitting everything I love and like shoving it in my face.

Speaker 3 44:12

It was great definitely the end product's definitely my kind of, my kind of favorite part of it all to see it all together and do you know the next steps?

Speaker 1 44:23

do you know what's coming next for you guys and for the musical, or do you need a bit of time to work out what's what's coming next?

Speaker 4 44:32

yeah. So we obviously at the minute we're doing like a lot of, like I say, fixing and tightening up, taking off back on or adding in bits back into it that we're taking out um, gonna do a bit more fundraising just to kind of get to be able to fund a fuller show, um, and to try and because one one feedback as well was that dance numbers, things were great and everything's great, but it does need a bigger stage. You know, it can be a bit overwhelming, especially because we're that close to the to what's happening um, so just to try and get a bit of fundraising. So I don't know if you want to mention what we're doing it's not budget, so I don't know that we can.

Speaker 3 45:04

We can fully, fully decide reasonable.

Speaker 3 45:12

People need to know we'll put it in as a reunion. Yeah, there's a reunion element that's going to be coming, um, prior to christmas, and then the intention then would be is we're going to go in, we're going to work um, obviously I literally work, uh, in school, but also we're going to spend some time on the script. It's there, as in the story outline is there, the vast majority of the scenes are written. It's now about going back and going what needs to be moved out, what needs to be moved around, what needs to be put into it, but then, with a view to probably going back into doing a full production workshop in the new year, accidental.

Speaker 4 45:51

Big goal to go to Edinburgh Fringe as well.

Speaker 3 45:55

Yes, that's probably an intention for next year. Accidental have been amazing and we are likely to go back and partner up with them again for doing the next kind of round of things. But we'll also see if there are bigger spaces and things like that.

Speaker 4 46:07

I think we'd still do it.

Future Plans and Next Steps

Speaker 3 46:13

I can't fault them enough. They're fantastic. Sorry, I can't. I can't fault them. They are a great group of people to work with, a great theatre for people who are up and coming or small projects and things like that. They're brilliant. They're so, so brilliant, very attentive.

Speaker 4 46:36

I think that other show, rose and Bud, started there too, like you, said they're a real jumping off point as well. They are brilliant they are. You can see how things can thrive there and it's great. And I say they treat our cast and everyone really well and so it's like it's it is always lovely to be there. So yeah, just that's kind of exciting.

Speaker 2 46:56

Keep on writing and then getting the cast back together well, we'll keep sharing on our socials and we'll keep letting all the local people know and the ones that listen to us from afar. But for those people that maybe don't currently follow you, where can they find you? Where can they find more information about?

Speaker 3 47:14

you. We are primarily on instagram at delicate musical um, also on tiktok at delicate musical um, and there's a facebook attached into that as well. If you search us, you can search us through google and stuff like that. Anyway, you'll see the reviews and stuff come up and then any oh yeah, we have a link tree there. That's kind of set for the YouTube of the Scratch Night. We are waiting to see.

Speaker 4 47:37

We're still to get the recordings through from accidental but we are going to put a link on that so people want to, to buy it independently and see, see the other things. Obviously some people might not have got to see it or know about it, so that'll be there as well, to kind of that'll be part of fundraising as well.

Speaker 3 47:53

But we're also shifting merchandise as well love them we also have a pride edition of the t-shirt as well, because obviously we're kids of. Lgbtqi plus movements as well.

Speaker 1 48:08

So we're that's there well, one final question for you, because in our podcast it's all about what musicals have taught us. So our last question to you is what have musicals taught you?

Speaker 3 48:26

that is. That's so deep. That's a great question. What have musicals taught me? Musicals have taught me that much in the same way that books can do, you can escape to wherever for the sake of two and a half hours you can find. You can you have a place to go to be able to escape from everything that kind of is going on in your life. You can go and you can sit in the theater, you can enjoy whatever. You can uh, laugh, you can cry, you can just embrace the fact that there are talented people in front of you who are expressing their talent in possibly one of the best forms that's out there, and we all get the privilege of being able to bask in that love it what about you, victoria?

Speaker 4 49:23

for me it's. It's, as I kind of said before, for me it's the community of it. There's no people like theater people and it just isn't. And I think it's just that. And it's when you get a broadway rave or you get to all go see a show together or you're in a show, or even in the background, plus Ryan or Leah, um, you know, everyone feels part of it. So you know, and it is just what that brings. And I say whether it is because you're watching something, because even when you're watching certain shows like you are engulfed in it, you are included in it, and also why we try to, in our show, bring a bit of immersive stuff into it as well, but it is just that community of it and just the yeah, but it is the joy it brings. Even if it is a miserable musical, somehow you're still smiling. I don't know why that happens, but yeah, it is just the joy of it.

Speaker 1 50:01

And then the community of it for me, Guys, thank you so much for your time tonight, especially this week of all weeks.

Speaker 4 50:10

Thank you. I hope we'll hear your answer to that question if we go back and listen to your first episode. What was that? Have you exposed your answer to that question?

Speaker 1 50:21

We talk about it on a weekly, to be quite honest with you, because it's a musical we're talking about. We learn something completely. Listen. We're musical geeks like we really are. I think both of what you've said, it is the community about it and the escapism of it. You know you can be in the pits of despair. Go and see a musical and actually you feel much better.

Speaker 4 50:45

For me and I let you help it out or get get out of you absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 50:51

And the community. And, like you said, we've known each other since we were four because of musical theatre, and we're still together, but only a few years later, because we're still very young, and it's just nice to know that friendships, community and that escapism.

What Musicals Have Taught Us

Speaker 3 51:13

Favourite musicals before you wrap up.

Speaker 1 51:16

Favourite musicals. Well, we're supposed to be asking the questions what's your favourite musical?

Speaker 3 51:21

Dermot Mine's Hamilton my dog is named after the same. It just took over. Like I was away from it for a good number of years and obviously I'd like. Obviously I'd like things previously, but just seeing that was just an experience yeah, you love it, it's just an experience I. If there's one thing I could know off by heart from start to finish, it would be that I would. I could do a one-man show of it. I just love it so much I'm not going to any, any musical, he'll be there.

Speaker 4 51:53

He'll tell you everything about them. Mine changes all the time, but I think my consistent up top one tellers I just love them. I don't even know why I just do whenever we saw it. I saw it for the first time ever in Grand Opera House and I literally was like where has this been?

Speaker 2 52:08

all my. There's a musical for every feeling, emotion and period of your life, so that's about the best.

Speaker 1 52:17

I find that question very difficult to answer. I don't really know what my favourite musical is, but I am a golden oldie, I think, like my top five are all like Back in the Day 42nd Street.

Speaker 4 52:30

Guys and.

Speaker 1 52:31

Dolls, oklahoma's. I love all that, that kind of jazz, jazz.

Speaker 4 52:36

Oh, chicago as well yeah, so you could just keep rhyming off and obviously let us know what our musical inspires in you at some point thank you so much.

Speaker 1 52:48

Thank all the best for whatever our musical bye. Well done guys.