The Photography and Video Show Podcast, Season 1 Episode 5
Published on Thursday, 5 October 2023
Hosted by David McClelland, with Angela Nicholson and featured guest, Kelly Brown.
In this month’s show: David speaks with newborn portrait photographer Kelly Brown about working with young children and building a business; SheClicks’ Angela Nicholson gets some hands-on time with the new Nikon Z f; Panasonic surfaces the G9II and Fujifilm unfurls the GFX100 II; plus we look forward to the Photography & Video Show and SheClicks Women in Photography meet-up.
Stories in this episode:
The Photography & Video Show Podcast:
Subscribe to The Photography & Video Show Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Photography and Video Show Podcast, Season 1 Episode 5
Published on Thursday, 5 October 2023
Hosted by David McClelland, with Angela Nicholson and featured guest, Kelly Brown.
In this month’s show: David speaks with newborn portrait photographer Kelly Brown about working with young children and building a business; SheClicks’ Angela Nicholson gets some hands-on time with the new Nikon Z f; Panasonic surfaces the G9II and Fujifilm unfurls the GFX100 II; plus we look forward to the Photography & Video Show and SheClicks Women in Photography meet-up.
Stories in this episode:
The Photography & Video Show Podcast:
Subscribe to The Photography & Video Show Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello and welcome to The Photography and Video Show Podcast. I'm David McClelland. I'm your host and this month we're talking to photographer Kelly Brown about her journey specializing in newborn and baby portraiture as well as scaling her business so successfully.
Kelly Brown:So I said to my husband, I'm going to photograph babies, and he said, you're crazy, there's no money in babies, and I was like, oh, okay. And then I said to the wedding photographer that I worked for that, I have to hand my resignation in. And he's like, what are you gonna do? And I said, well, I'm gonna photograph babies. And he He said, it's a fad. It won't last. And I was like, okay, so I had like two people tell me that this wasn't going to work. And I think that gave me a little determination to push forward. And I proved both of them wrong.
David McClelland:Plus we take a look at Nikon's new retro full-frame camera, the Z f, we hit on some medium format and micro- four- thirds releases from Fujifilm and Panasonic, and look forward to an in-person meetup Joining us this month is photographer, journalist, Camera Jabber, co- founder, SheClicks founder and host of the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast, Angela Nicholson. Hello Ange. How's it going?
Angela Nicholson:I'm very well, thank you. It's been, uh, a busy few weeks, but lots of fun.
David McClelland:Yes, it is that kind of autumn season where there seems to be a good deal of launches, lots of news, and I know you've been going out and about to press events, and so on, getting hands on lots of gear over the last few weeks.
Angela Nicholson:Yeah, it's been, it's been a crazy busy time, but it's always exciting, you know, I am a bit of a gear freak. I do like to get my hands onto new cameras and imagine what they can do and, do a bit of testing So, yeah, it's been great.
David McClelland:Well, let's, go into some of your hands on stuff in just a moment, because we want to touch on one of the big launches over the last few weeks, which of course has been the Nikon ZF. But first, for anyone who maybe hasn't... rubbed shoulders with you at a photography event or hasn't come across Camera Jabber or She Clicks could you just fill us in please?
Angela Nicholson:Okay. I used to be at one point I was Amateur Photographer's, technical editor, then I moved to Future Publishing where I was the head of testing there, which, I think is filled by variety of people these days, that role. in 2016 I set up a Camera Jabber with two colleagues. And that is a website for photographers with news reviews, tips and techniques. And my Primary role with that is the same as it's been since I started in the photographic industry, really, which is reviewing camera kits, cameras specifically and lenses. And, of course, I can't help but get hold of a few accessories and test those as well, because they're always really, really interesting. in 2018, I launched SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. And that primarily runs through Facebook. We have a Facebook group with over 12, 000 members. And it's, uh, it's exciting. It's fun. We, sort of have a informative vibe, but it's always very, very friendly. it's educational and we have. Meetups where we have lots of fun and also we have, uh, free webinars and as you say, recently launched, uh, the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast, which has been really exciting.
David McClelland:You mentioned meetups there and later on in the show we're going to be having a quick chat about a Photography and Video Show and SheClicks meetup that will be taking place later in October, about two or three weeks away, as we record right now. But, let us dive first of all into some of this month's news, and, well, much rumoured finally revealed the Nikon ZF has promised classic design with modern features, and you've had some hands on time with this. What have you made of it?
Angela Nicholson:Well, my first impression of it is, you know, sometimes somebody puts a camera down in front of you and you look at it and you instantly know whether you want to pick it up or not. And this was a camera that I wanted to pick up, you know, because it looks really nicely made, it looks solid and you want to feel whether that is backed up by the, you know, in your hands, the tactile experience and it is, yeah, it feels great, it looks great, it was nice to see that they've added a little bit of a grip on the front because previously with the APS C version, the ZF C, it hasn't got a grip so it's a bit, you know, it's flat fronted so it's um, It doesn't feel as secure in your hand. And if you imagine scaling up to a full frame camera, then it's a little bit bigger. So just having that bit of grip really adds something. And then, it's also apparently the dials on the top are made of brass. And over time, you know, some of that black paint is going to rub off and you'll get a little bit of the brass coming through and a patina will build up. And so you suddenly start to think, Oh, this could be, you know, it's a camera that at some point you're going to be able to put on a shelf with old film cameras and maybe not be able to tell that, but. The difference from the front.
David McClelland:Well on that, on that point then, for anyone who isn't familiar, who hasn't seen this, it is modeled on the iconic Nickon FM two, which is 40 years old, I think this year. I think it launched in 1983 or thereabouts, and it only came off the shelves in 2001. So that had a really good shelf life of its own accord, and this is a modern take on that but very very much in the kind of retro style you mentioned the ZFC which is the APS C version it's been out for what two three years or something like that. And this is the full frame version of it So it's it's got the classic retro styling, it's got and that lots of dials and controls on the fronts. But on the inside it is a really really capable competitive camera with many of the other cameras on the market right now, isn't it?
Angela Nicholson:Yeah, it's very powerful. I mean, for a start, it's got the same sensor as the Nikon Z6 II, which is 24. 5 million pixels, which is a really nice sweet spot you know, it's a good size in terms of pixel count, but also you get, speed off processing, you know, because you haven't got massive file sizes, but it's paired with the XP seven processor, which is the same processor as in the Z nine and the Z eight.
David McClelland:That's proper flagship stuff, isn't it?
Angela Nicholson:exactly. And it's got the same kind of focusing system as the Z eight. So it means that, you know, you've got all the subject detection modes now. So far, I've only used the camera in a sort of fairly gloomy restaurant. so I've been able to direct it towards other journalists. And I can tell you that the, human subject detection works very well. I've yet to try it with animals and, and cars and things, but I'm, I am quietly confident that it will be able to deliver. So the idea of combining such modern technology, with that retro styling is very, very appealing.
David McClelland:So where does it fit into the lineup then? Because as you've touched on there, it's got elements of the Z662, the Z8, Z9 with that 24. 5 megapixel sensor, XP7 processing engine. But in terms of features, it's also got some, some new tricks up its sleeve. The pixel shift, for example. So For a Nikon photographer who maybe is looking to make the move to mirrorless and benefit from some of the capabilities that this mirrorless format brings, what kind of things should they be looking at to help them, grab onto whether they look at the ZF or whether they look at a, I say traditional in the loosest sense of the term, but the Z8 or Z9, for example,
Angela Nicholson:Well, obviously price plays a huge, huge part in that. And I mean, a lot of the talk at the moment is about the Z8 because it really is a phenomenal camera. Um, but that's sort of, it's in the upper end of the, The price brackets, you know, I think it's reasonably priced for what it is, but it's, it's an expensive camera. The Z, uh, F is a bit more affordably, affordably priced. Um,
David McClelland:2, 300 including VAT, uh, UK money. Mmm,
Angela Nicholson:So it's, you know, it's, it's a significant wedge of cash, but actually I think you're getting a lot of camera. money. But I think what you have to think about is how comfortable you are with those traditional controls. Now, Nikon hasn't gone quite as far down the road as, say, Fujifilm because it doesn't have lenses with aperture rings. Yes, you can set, you can adjust aperture using a ring on the lens, but it's not a dedicated ring. So it's slightly different proposition. Um, and you can still make adjustments using the command dial. So if you're more comfortable with that, but if you're only going to go down that route, then it seems more sensible to go for a Z6 2 or Z7 2. That said, The Z6 2 don't have the same sort of focusing capability with the subject detection as the ZF. And that, for me, is quite a significant thing these days. It's definitely the way the industry is going and it makes such a difference with wildlife, pet, human portraiture.
David McClelland:Two things I do want to pick up on, uh, this pixel shift, it's difficult to say, this pixel shift capability that can create up to, I think, 96 megapixel images in camera. It's something we've seen on other cameras before. I don't know that we've seen it in Nikon cameras before, if I'm honest. And then the other thing I want to on is the media that it uses too. What have you got to tell us about those two?
Angela Nicholson:Well, the pixel shift. I mean, as you say, we have seen that elsewhere. And for me, it makes more sense in the slightly lower resolution cameras, because suddenly, you know, if I can't see the point really of having it in 100 million pixel camera, because you've already got a massive pixel count and suddenly you're making 400 million pixels images. But If you've got 24 million pixels, you know, being able to create 96 or nearly 100 million pixel images makes sense to me. And I think that could be a really useful addition on certain occasions. I need to test it properly yet. You know, it's possible that there will be issues with things like, you know, if leaves in a landscape are moving, then sometimes you can get artifacts and stuff. So that needs to be looked at. But if you're a commercial photographer or, you know, you're doing, shooting a still life and for some reason you want a larger than normal image, then it could be very, very useful.
David McClelland:And in terms of the media, departure from what I think I was certainly expecting inside a Nikon camera in this sort of range.
Angela Nicholson:Yes, that is one where I think, you know, when, when I was at the briefing, um, that before the announcement, you know, it was one of those points where you stop typing and look up just to make sure you heard that right. So for those who don't know, I mean, it has two memory card slots and one is the sort of what you'd expect SD type media, but the other one is micro SD and we're like, what? And you normally associate a micro SD card with drones and action cameras like, you know, GoPro. So to have one in a full frame, mirrorless camera from Nikon was a bit of a departure. And I, I don't recall ever seeing one of those certainly in modern times, in a proper digital camera before. and I think it's possibly a desire to keep the size of the camera down. So they haven't gone for two SD cards. but also recognizing that people who are paying 2, 000 usually want, or more, usually want two cards. Um, so they, you know, they can back up their images.
David McClelland:yeah. So in terms of the capabilities of the media, I mean, I was on a shoot only last week with a pair of Nikon Z5s, video, shooting just some very, very simple interviews, and it was XQD media that we used there. So, as we start looking Back almost towards sd, a micro sd, are there concerns that the media isn't gonna be able to handle, intense bursts of, footage, for example? Or is the fact that we've got a lower megapixel count here counter to that?
Angela Nicholson:Yeah, I think it's the lower megapixel count that is gonna make the difference. And of course we're not gonna be shooting eight K video. Um, I did have a look, little look into, uh, uh, a while ago and I couldn't see any massive drawbacks to using a, a micro sd, but I think, you know, it's something I'll be looking at when I'm testing the camera a bit more thoroughly.
David McClelland:And seven striking colourways as well. I was, uh, I was surprised when I saw that on the front page of the Nikon website. some bold colours that Nikon has chosen. Still very much within the palette, the retro palette if you like. But I, I'm absolutely a fan of those and I think we're eyeing the market for one of these cameras. As much as the black certainly has an appeal and will, age very nicely I'm sure. I'd be quite tempted to look at one of the other colors, So I, I, I applaud Nick on for making that bold move.
Angela Nicholson:Yeah, it's interesting'cause I actually. Put a question on she clicks in the Facebook group and asked which color people would go for. And there was a lot of people who were really interested in seeing all the different colors. And, you know, there was a few people said they would go for black. But, you know, it was quite a variety of colors that were getting appeal. I mean, personally, sort of my head says black because that's kind of got the longevity and, you know, it's kind of would fit right in. But my heart goes for, I forget, I can't remember the technical term for it, but you know, the red,
David McClelland:yes. It's a kind of very rich red,
Angela Nicholson:Yeah, I really like that. And, you know, I was thinking, well, I wear a lot of that kind of colour, maybe that, you know, that would be quite good. But I also, there's a green one, I think it's olive green, which is very nice too.
David McClelland:Yes. I like the kind of, blue, I dunno if that's a cobalt blue or something. It's a, a little bit more retro than that, but, uh, I think that's probably the one I would go with.
Angela Nicholson:Yeah, that was receiving a lot of love in SheClicks. But there was, yeah, and the orange. A lot of people liked the orange as well, a bit of a splash of colour. So, you know, there was quite a spread. People appreciated all the colours and I wonder if actually, you know, people will find it very, very difficult to make a decision and therefore end up going for the black. But, who knows?
David McClelland:It's nice to have the choice anyway
Angela Nicholson:Mm.
David McClelland:Not the only new news this month, let's touch quickly on one or two other things. Panasonic has announced the G9 Mark II. Two. and for context here, the G nine mark one I believe launched around about the same time as the GH five and the the GH series from Panasonic. very popular with videographers, still great stills cameras, but very popular with videographers. So I think the G nine was the more stills focused offering. Uh, the GH six came out maybe last year or something like that. Now, the G nine mark two has come out. Uh, what have you made of that Ange?
Angela Nicholson:guess there's two key things for me. One is that, you know, the jumping pixel count, so it's up to 25. 2 million pixels, which is a significant jump, which I think, you know, makes it more attractive. But the other thing is the inclusion of phase detection focusing. Uh, you know, it's the first stills G series camera. is it? Actually, no. In fact, I think it's the first G series camera to have face detection focusing from Panasonic. And that makes a big difference. You know, it's faster, it's more decisive. And also we've got the subject detection. Now we've had subject detection from Panasonic in the G9. But if you were photographing animals, it just sort of said, there's the animal and it might roughly select its head, but it didn't target its eye. So, you know, if I was photographing my dog, which I do quite a lot, the focusing could be on his nose, it could be on his head or it could be on his backside, depending on what orientation he was on and now it will detect his eyes, which is, is great. And I was, I was lucky enough to go to the, the press briefing, which was held at a safari park, which on a. Bright sunny day was looking very like a sort of verdant Africa to be honest because we were going around and you know suddenly some giraffes came over the hill and beautiful blue skies And the trees obviously all nibbled in the same way as they would be in Africa. And it did a great job. I mean, sometimes the, the, you know, the markings of, of giraffes, that confused the subject detection in terms of getting the eye a little bit sometimes, but there were other animals where it was straight on. And the great thing about subject detection is, of course, that the more images that are analysed, the better it becomes. So over time, you know, as firmware updates come out, it gets better and better, and I think it's already pretty good. So, you know, that's that's an exciting development, I think, from Panasonic.
David McClelland:The joy of machine learning and machine learning AI, obviously something the whole industry has been talking about. We've been chatting about a lot on this show over the last few months. G9 II price tag of about 1, 700 and that will be coming out, I believe, in November this year. Another launch, though, which is also very interesting, moving over to the Fujifilm side, is the GFX 100 Mark II. Lots of Mark IIs coming out at the moment. Where does this sit? Why is this important right now?
Angela Nicholson:Well, it's Fujifilm's flagship medium format camera. And by medium format camera, we mean that it's got a larger than full frame sensor. And actually, it's 1. 7 times the size of a full frame sensor. It's got a pixel count of 102 million pixels, which is why I sort of alluded to it earlier. Yes. And it does have the pixel shift option as well. So, you know, you can get absolutely massive files out of it. But for many people, 102 is more than enough. But again, you know, one of the great things about this camera is that it's, it's not necessarily all about the sensor, although that is a very significant part. It's about the processor and the speed of processing. And that has taken a major step up. And it means that Again, we have the subject detection in a medium format camera, and so, you know, someone who's shooting a portrait, you've got really fast, responsive eye detection, but also it works with animals, and it works with, um, you know, in sports situations. Now, I don't think we're quite there, you know, whether we're going to see Fujifilm medium format cameras on the touch line. I don't know, but it's certainly very responsive and I was, I was very lucky to go to Stockholm for the X Summit at which the camera was launched. And. Before we left, I popped outside into the Stockholm rain, and there was lots of cyclists going by, and I thought, I wonder if I can get some panning shots with this, and yes, the answer was yes, I could. Yeah. So, you know, I just had to, I could set it to, I can't remember whether, I think I alternated between, because there is an option for bicycles or, um, humans, and I think I alternated between the two, and it You know, it managed to detect them, whichever one it was was selected, and so I could rely on that to find the focus for me. And then I just had to concentrate on panning at the right speed, which is, you know, it's quite a skill. And I got some shots that I'm really pleased with, and I ever expected to do with a medium format camera.
David McClelland:It's kind of pushing the boundary a little bit, like you say, of what you expect a medium format camera to be able to do, because you mentioned portraits there, yes, they very comfortably fit there. Architecture type stuff as well, and interestingly I noticed that alongside that camera, it's also, Fujifilm's also announced two tilt shift lenses for its GFX lineup as well.
Angela Nicholson:Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, perhaps the 35 mil is the one that most people are excited about or more people are excited about. because, you know, that's going to be really interesting for architecture and it has, um, you know, it could be really interesting for landscape photography as well. So it means that you can, you can shoot from low down and instead of having converging verticals, you can get, you know, trees, Perfectly straight.
David McClelland:Yes.
Angela Nicholson:And so that makes, makes a big difference. And I think the perhaps the 110, maybe that's going to be useful for, still life and commercial photography.
David McClelland:Thank you for now, Ange. Time now to hear from this month's feature guest. Kelly Brown is a Brisbane Australia based multi award-winning portrait, photographer, and educator. Over the last 20 or so years, she's built businesses, communities and in-person events all around capturing images of newborn babies. Hi Kelly, thanks for joining us. Uh, WC fields. So American comedian writer and actor, he famously once said never work with animals and children. So what is it you enjoy about photographing children and babies in particular? What is it?
Kelly Brown:You know, think for me, it's that I love the fact that it's so unpredictable. I mean, I photographed a lot of other genres, a lot of other types of portraits as well. And there's something about photographing a newborn baby with their family, you're familiar with, you know, having newborn babies around, there's this element of love and affection that families have for this new baby and for each other at the time, and I started to really notice that when I first got into photographing babies, and I thought they're so, it's so much nicer. Yeah. To be around people that are affectionate towards other and so in love with this baby I mean, I've got three children of my own and there is zero preparation that you can have for the amount of love that feel for the baby that you hold that you've just, know, given birth to. And so I, I just found myself drawn to these families and I found that I was, calmer. I enjoyed the process so much more. And I mean, I've naturally always been drawn to babies, but it's not what I've always photographed. But, it's definitely something that. I've enjoyed the challenge of capturing because they are so unpredictable as I mentioned and it's rewarding. Being able to capture part of their personality and making them look rested and comfortable. When you look at a photo, obviously it can make you feel a range of emotions. For me, I always want people to look at a photo because they're not in the room, they're not there at the time of the shoot, they don't know what goes into, to capturing the photo, but I want them to look at the photo and go, ah, not, Ooh, that baby looks uncomfortable or, you know, or that baby doesn't look happy or it looks strained or whatever. So it's the level of patience needs to be there to be able to capture that, but, for me it's definitely more about making the baby look comfortable so that when people look at the photos, they can at least enjoy that time because it is, you know, having that level of empathy for families um, that have just welcomed a new baby or multiple babies for that matter.
David McClelland:So talk to me then about one of your sessions, typically how it might run. How do you keep the children, the babies and the parents calm and focused in what can be an intimidating environment? You know, studio, backdrops, props, cameras, lighting and all the rest of that. How do you keep that serenity?
Kelly Brown:Do you know, a newborn studio is very similar to a normal photography portrait studio. I've worked for other photographers throughout my career. So taking, you know, the whole overwhelming, um, amount of equipment that we, we are required, but to turn that into a space that is very calm, that is, and it's comfortable for them. I think for a lot of new parents, you know, they're so overwhelmed with not knowing what to do when they become parents. And, you know, on one hand, they've got this enormous amount of love. And on the other hand, they've got this. world that they are completely unknown to. You know, they, they're sort of trying to do the best that they can every day to get through each day on very little sleep. So for me, it's about making them feel comfortable because when you take a new baby, to an environment like a studio. it's nerve wracking for them. It's it's overwhelming obviously because of the equipment and They're worried about their baby Everything concerns them from you know the the cleanliness so obviously things have to be very nice and hygienic, but also just for anyone who doesn't have a baby can be, it can be very overwhelming for them and can bring on anxiety to go to a new place that they've never been to before. So for me, it is all about creating that calm space and making them feel as comfortable and relaxed as possible. I have like relaxation music. If you've ever been for a massage, you know, and you walk in and you instantly feel relaxed. it's like that. So I, I have a lot going on in the room and even if I'm somewhat, stressed or anxious for whatever reason going on outside that particular shoot, then I always make sure I sort of ground myself walking before growing, going into the studio so that I keep that same, calm energy that my clients need for them to be able to sit back and relax. So the session basically revolves around them. And how I can best make them feel comfortable so that their baby feeds off that energy for me to be able to photograph them, um, contently. That's probably the best word.
David McClelland:I asked this question as we did a shoot when my eldest daughter was a baby and I found it very difficult and I'll be polite in case the photographer's listening and for some reason can remember who we are. I would say it was me rather than them, but I felt very uncomfortable during the shoot, and I'm pretty sure, from the shots that my daughter didn't enjoy it either, and no surprise the images aren't something that we really keep or at least treasure, they are on the wall at my parents in law house, and I can just see in my eyes, and certainly my daughter's eyes, obviously knowing her very well, that it's not necessarily this calm, serene, not a memory that we want to treasure. I just wonder if for some reason, on a day, a shoot isn't working. Maybe the baby's having a bad day. Maybe the parents are having a bad day. Whether it's a case of, alright, just take half an hour, go and chill, go for a walk, go and do whatever you need to do to go and ground yourself. Or if on some days, the stars are just meaning that it's not going to work.
Kelly Brown:Do you know, I just love that you brought this up because it is such a big part of what we do. To hear this from a parent's perspective, I love this because What I think a lot of photographers forget is that we are in the business of people. And if we're not taking care of the people that we're welcoming into our studio, then we're not creating an experience that they're going to remember. And photographs take you back to a moment in time that we remember. They remind you of that experience. And you just told me about that experience. And how old is your daughter now? Sorry, how long ago was the
David McClelland:Oh, she's 13 now,
Kelly Brown:you go. So 13 years ago, you are remembering exactly that. And those photos remind you of that experience. And I think this is what we have to remember. We have to take care of the people. Babies don't remember. Like, they will look back at the photos and look them and go, Why did you dress me like that, you know? What were you thinking me in that? And why did the photographer do that? They will have their own mindset around looking at those photos. But as parents, we do, we remember that moment in time. Looking at the photograph and I have very similar photos of my daughter who's now 20 and she's got one eye open and she looks extremely uncomfortable I just oh no, what did I do to that poor child? And it wasn't even me taking the photos at the time. I think what we have to do is, is remember that it's not all about the art. And we get sometimes a little bit carried away in, the process of it and we forget that it's an experience that a photo is going to take you back to remember. For me, people matter the most. I want couples to walk away knowing that they've thoroughly enjoyed the experience. And I've found that in doing that, and it's a lot about what I teach, when I make a family feel like they are literally in their home, in my studio, when I make them feel like they are a part of the process, when I make them feel like I'm creating photos that they've had a say in, then I've done my job really well. If they walk out and I don't get that sense, then I feel like I've not succeeded in doing what I'm being paid to do.
David McClelland:What was your starting point in photography, Kelly? And what was your journey to realizing that baby photography in particular was where your skills and where your passion really met.
Kelly Brown:I actually got a camera as a gift when I was married just over 20 years ago. And so, I wasn't the best photographer. And my husband at the time said to me, perhaps you should learn how take decent photo. So I enrolled in, in, yeah, big blow. I enrolled in a. course and I ended up having having a baby of my own and literally didn't want to miss a moment. So I took a hundred photos a day of this this poor baby. We stare at them literally, you know all day every day don't we trying to remember every little inch of them? And so you know, doing that, obviously I was learning a lot and then I remember having the six week old baby and I was off to college at night for a couple of hours each week to learn more and it was just when digital photography was starting to sort of come along. So I got quite hooked on on it then and one sort of thing led to another and, before I knew it, I was working for a, architectural company photographing staircases. Just sort of from there and having conversations with people that I knew, it was like, oh, somebody I know is getting married. They're probably looking for a wedding photographer. So I started photographing weddings. I got up to about 25 a year. Before I knew it, I had this very busy full time job and three children under three, so I sort of had to decide at that point whether I was going to keep, sort of, going in the same direction, like most photographers do, you know, when they're sort of starting out in those first few years, you photograph anything and everything, you don't want to turn a job down. I'd been photographing friends babies other people's babies, and I you know people that I'd photographed their weddings for they were having babies. So I was getting busier with more baby bookings, and I thought to myself This is easier and my clients can come Monday to Friday so
David McClelland:heh,
Kelly Brown:I didn't have to work weekends anymore. At the time, my husband actually was working in construction, so he was fly in, fly out, so he was only home every second weekend. And it was making it very difficult for me to continue sort of booking at the same rate, and I just made the decision that I was going to photograph babies. So I said to my husband, I'm going to photograph babies, and he said, you're crazy, there's no money in babies, and I, and I was like, oh, okay. And then I said to the wedding photographer that I worked for that, I have to hand my resignation in. And he's like, what are you gonna do? And I said, well, I'm gonna photograph babies. And he He said, it's a fad. It won't last. It's a trend. And I was like, okay, so I had like two people tell me that this wasn't going to work. And I think that gave me a little determination to push forward. And I proved both of them wrong. My husband ended up giving up his job in the construction industry and came and worked for me. The photographer that I worked for, he sent all of his staff to me to be trained a few years after I left there. So... I proved them wrong, didn't I?
David McClelland:Well, I guess it's a natural on from weddings, at least for many couples. What happens within a couple of years or so after the wedding, it's the baby. So, I guess you're seeing the next stage of the journey that the wedding business was seeing.
Kelly Brown:Yeah, and for me, that's probably the biggest reward of everything that I do, is that knowing that I get to watch these families grow, and that they've got the confidence within me to continue capturing their journey.
David McClelland:I always say repeat business is good business, and certainly bears true there. You have successfully scaled your business from Kelly Brown, Little Pieces Photography, almost 20 years ago by the sounds of it, to what it is that you present now, which is much broader: photography, obviously, but mentoring, training, growing entire online communities. What were the penny drop moments on that journey that have enabled you to grow as a business?
Kelly Brown:It's a crazy thing to kind of think back about really when you think almost 20 years. But, I never thought teaching would be an avenue that I would go down. I had an incredible opportunity just over a decade ago to go and present on a platform called Creative Live Seattle in the U. S. I've taught seven different classes on there now in the last decade, so it definitely put me in front of an audience, that has allowed me to grow my online platforms. It's something that I'm, I'm just extremely grateful for, but a lot of people don't realize how I got on to Creative Live as well. So that was almost a bit of a fluke. They were running a competition, and they were going to give a photographer a platform based off this competition. And what you had to do was submit a three minute video telling them about what it is that you specialize in, the area and what you teach. And with baby photography, for me, the focus has always been around the comfort and the safety of a baby. So, safety's obviously at the forefront of everything that I do and what most people who obviously photograph babies do. So, I did this three minute video and Garrett, who's my assistant, he's been with me for over twelve years, he held the camera in front of my face and I'd never filmed anything. And I literally just sort of blurted out everything that I taught in an in- person workshop. I said, no, I'm not going to send it. And he said, don't be silly. And I said, no, I don't think that I should send it. It's kind of crazy. And what do they, why would they pick an Australian, you know, in the background, because we had zero soundproofing or anything going on, you could hear cockatoos, you know, going crazy in the afternoon. And nobody likes the sound of their own voice and an Australian accent on top of that. I, um, I submitted this video thinking, oh, no way they'll throw it in the bin. Anyway, I got an email and it said, no, we've not selected you in our top five, but we'd like to offer your class. So I kind of bypassed the judging panel and landed myself a three day newborn posing class. And I photographed something like 22 babies in three days and broke records on their platform. I think there a and 000 people watching live at one point. Um, which for me is insane. Like I'm, I come from a small country town where there's not even 110, 000 people living. So it was kind of mind blowing. But that's where my journey sort of started in terms of teaching. And then in 2014, I believe, or maybe 2013, I came up with this concept to run a conference for baby photographers because it was... It's becoming more and more popular it was called the Baby Summit. So I developed this in-person conference and it became the largest attended conference in Australia for photographers and audience was 98, 99 percent women. And so that was again, quite an unheard. of thing. And that grew, um, I think we ran five or six of them in total before it was just way too much, but we did it in Atlanta in the U. S. as well in two thousand and 16, I can't remember now, and we had 1500 attendees in person for a three day event and that was quite phenomenal, so, it's been an amazing ride, let me tell you.
David McClelland:Creative Live we know very well and we've spoken with Chase Jarvis a number The Photography Show. Describe for us where you're at right now with Kelly Brown empire. What does that encompass?
Kelly Brown:Do you know, it's funny because, I do work with a lot of photographers in terms of growing their business and I am always looking for, for different avenues to be able to expand and, and continue to grow, um, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur. And I started a, a film and production studio here in, Brisbane where I live. so yeah, it's booked out solidly. It's one of the largest, soundproof film and production studios called Spine Street Studios. So that's part of how I have expanded. With my online education, I have kellybrownonline. com which is more like a, a monthly membership for photographers who want to basically learn anything from newborn photography right through to family portraiture, maternity, you name it. It's a, it's a really beautiful community actually, and I'm live three times a week. So that's, it works out to be about six hours a week that I'm live with them teaching. You know, it can be anything from an image critique, or to an edit with me, or just a live Q& A. It's a growing platform, but at the moment I'm just happy with where it is. I don't see it changing too much, or um, I don't have any bigger plans for it in the future at the moment, but I'm loving it getting to know photographers online.
David McClelland:How do you find balance within all of that? I speak to a lot of people who struggle with balance, balance between the creative aspect of their job, what they started doing before the business side started to become part of their growth, but also in terms of the work life balance thing, and maybe the whole of it family balance thing has, changed to accommodate the growth in business, but do you find it easy to balance these different demands on your time,
Kelly Brown:I think a lot of parents really struggle and for any artist really, you know, we always struggle with being able to separate the artist from the business owner. I actually studied business before I became a photographer. So I had a pretty good understanding and knowledge of, you know, being able to structure a business, um, effectively, but having three children under three taught me a lot in terms of how to structure my day and get through the, get through the day and I'm a bit of a creature of habit when it comes to that. It is very difficult to balance your life when it comes to work and home. But if you don't make excuses, it makes it easier. So I'm, I'm very structured and I have to be. And it's the same with my business. Everybody that I communicate with they know that I work Monday to Friday, nine to three. If they need to get hold of me, I'm at the studio during those hours and then I'm at home afterwards. I know some people must get frustrated with me, but I often don't pull my laptop out of my bag once I get home because that's my home time. And I don't get emails on my phone. That's also another really big part of being able structure your time. and I have all notifications for social media turned off I, I'm not often on my personal social media, I'm on there with my, my business page or I'm in my Facebook groups, um, within my community, but I'm definitely, very, very structured and have to be otherwise you just become all too consumed by it. You know, our business needs to work for us, so we need to structure it in a way that, and, you know, build the right foundation so that it can work for you.
David McClelland:Thank you for taking valuable out of your day to speak to us in that case. Kelly Brown has been a delight to speak to you and I can't wait to meet you and hear even more from you at the Photography Show in Birmingham in March
Kelly Brown:Yeah, I'm really, really excited. It's going to be my first time presenting there and I can't wait to, experience it.
David McClelland:A big, thanks to Kelly. Find out more about her work at kellybrown.com.au-link in the show notes. Ange, let's talk about the SheClicks and Photography and Video Show Meetup at the Fujifilm House of Photography in October. This is very exciting. what is it? And what can people who go expect to experience?
Angela Nicholson:Yeah. Well, it is very exciting. it's not the first time that Fujifilm house of photography, but we're very excited about going back. So the Photography Show, I, I absolutely love it. And you know, the number of women who go there has been increasing, but we still haven't got sort of 50 percent representation yet. So I was trying to think how we could make women more visible at the show, but also make the show more visible to women and how we can encourage more women to go along. And so I had a chat with the photography show team and we came up with this plan, which is going to be part of the longstanding campaign called Women Who Photo. So basically, we're going to get together at the House of Photography. There's going to be two sessions, and we're all going to have our photographs taken, uh, with Fujifilm ex ambassador, Emily Endeen. And so the idea is that, you know, we'll probably have a few group shots, a few couple shots, and then some individual shots. So everyone will get a nice profile picture shot by Emily, but then these photographs will be used as part of a campaign in the build up to the show. And also the photos will be seen at the show on screens to sort of just remind people that there are a lot of women who are really into photography.
David McClelland:Now, just to be absolutely clear on a couple of things there, Fujifilm X Ambassador, that doesn't mean that she was formerly an ambassador for Fujifilm. Fujifilm X is itself a thing, isn't it?
Angela Nicholson:Yes. Sorry. I should have said Fujifilm ex photographer, but it still has the same thing. So I have to stick the word. uses ex photographer for their ambassador name. So yeah, Emily is very much a Fujifilm ambassador.
David McClelland:And that makes great sense when you're seeing it written down. When you're speaking about it on a podcast or on a video, not quite so much sense, but yeah, And the Fujifilm House of Photography, I've not been to it before, but it looks like an incredible... Venue, experience, place. Tell us a bit more about that.
Angela Nicholson:It's a really lovely place, actually. It's a bit like the Apple store for Fiji film, but it's not quite so in your face with the sales, I would say. So as you go through into the ground floor, there's lots of, you can see all the cameras and there are a few things to photograph and there's lots of demo cameras around, these things. So you can pick them up and have a little play and there's lots of staff on hand. You can ask questions and they will tell you all about it. then upstairs, there is a gallery area and there's usually an exhibition up there. which is, you know, they've got all sorts of stuff on. Um, it changes every few weeks. So it's, it's always worth going in and just popping upstairs to see what you can see. And then downstairs is a lounge area and a really fantastic studio. So that's where we're going to be downstairs in the lounge area and in the studio.
David McClelland:Now there are two sessions on the day. So this is taking place on Saturday the 21st of October, and the House of Photography is around Covent Garden, Leicester Square area, understand. there are two different sitting sessions on the day, am I right?
Angela Nicholson:Yes, that's right. There's one that starts at 11. 30 and the other at 2. 30. I should add that they're just about at capacity. So it's about, you have to book in advance because obviously there's a limited space. We're almost fully booked. But if you, check it out, you might be lucky and be able to get along.
David McClelland:And if you want to find out more about that, then head over to, well, one of the places, I'm sure there are others, but photographyshow. com and then right on the top there on the right hand side you will see Meetup, there is a sign up form at the bottom. You can pop your name down, pop your, which slot works best for you. And, uh, well, fingers crossed if you're an early subscriber to this podcast, then maybe you're able to slip in there first. That is however, all we have time for this month, we'll be back on the first Thursday of next month for more of the same. Remember the in-person Photography and Video show takes place at the National Exhibition Center in Birmingham, England from the 16th to the 19th of March, 2024. And as promised. We have news. Yes, you can now book your tickets. Yes. The ticket line is open as of today. On the website, photographyshow.com. The exhibitor list is up on the website, too. Delighted to welcome back Canon, Nikon Sony OM, Fujifilm, Lumix, along with a lovely long list of both regular and new exhibitors. Also, we can announce exclusively. I think here on the podcast, at least at the time of recording. the shows first speakers. So alongside the amazing Kelly Brown, who we heard from earlier, joining us, we have Sean Tucker visual storyteller in utuber. Gabrielle Mottola gold winner within her category at last week's AOP awards. Donatella Nicoline portrait photographer, and listed as one of the top 100 most successful women in 2023 in Forbes Italia. And we welcome back Peter Dench, documentary photographer, renowned for his candid shots of society. And co-founder of the Photo North Festival always enjoy chatting with Peter. More announcements coming soon. Hopefully on next month's podcast. Remember, if you enjoy what we do here, then please do hit subscribe, leave us a review. We've had some five-star reviews already, which is great. Thank you very much. Indeed. We'd love some more though, to help other people find the show. It's been lovely to hear from people getting in touch on social media. Uh, and even on a shoot a couple of weeks ago, somebody said how much they enjoy the show. Thank you very much. Uh, do drop us a line, the photography show@futurenet.com on email, on Instagram at the photography show that works for threads as well. And the platform formerly known as Twitter at UK photo show. Ange, it's been an absolute treat to have you with us this month. Where can people keep up with what you get up to online?
Angela Nicholson:Well, if you go to or search for SheClicksNet, you'll find us on Facebook, Twitter, or X, as we're supposed to call it now, Instagram, Instagram. And also you'll find we've got a website and if you go to the website, you can find the podcast. The podcast is also available at all the leading platforms just like yours.
David McClelland:Indeed it is, wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you very much indeed again. And thank you to Kelly for chatting with us earlier on as well. And we will see you all, next month. Bye bye for now.
Angela Nicholson:Bye bye.