The Photography and Video Show Podcast, Season 1 Episode 6
Published on Thursday, 2 November 2023
Hosted by David McClelland, with Peter Dench and featured guest, Emily Endean.
In this month’s show: David speaks with photojournalist Peter Dench about his journey to capture the sun, sea and sandbags of Ukraine at war, and to photographer Emily Endean about her career-change journey from insurer to photographer. Plus, we visit our London meet-up with SheClicks, and the latest industry news and highlights from Adobe MAX 2023.
Stories in this episode:
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The Photography & Video Show Podcast:
Subscribe to The Photography & Video Show Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Photography and Video Show Podcast, Season 1 Episode 6
Published on Thursday, 2 November 2023
Hosted by David McClelland, with Peter Dench and featured guest, Emily Endean.
In this month’s show: David speaks with photojournalist Peter Dench about his journey to capture the sun, sea and sandbags of Ukraine at war, and to photographer Emily Endean about her career-change journey from insurer to photographer. Plus, we visit our London meet-up with SheClicks, and the latest industry news and highlights from Adobe MAX 2023.
Stories in this episode:
###
The Photography & Video Show Podcast:
Subscribe to The Photography & Video Show Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
David McClelland: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to The Photography and Video Show Podcast. I'm your host, David McClelland. And this month, we take a trip to the Fujifilm House of Photography in central London for the first ever Photography and Video Show and She Clicks Women Who Photo meet-up. And while we're there we speak with photographer, Emily Endean about her liberating career transition from real estate insurer to great outdoors photographer.
Emily Endean: As I grew up and left school I kind of fell into the insurance industry and I was an insurance broker for almost 20 years.
And then alongside to that, I was slowly building what was a hobby in photography to something more. I went part time in my insurance work and I got to a level that, that I was able to actually think about changing the industry that I worked in.
It went hand in [00:01:00] hand with completely changing my life up and I left my house, left my job, I moved into my van and decided I would go full time in my photography work.
David McClelland: Also on this month's show, we talk about camera system anniversaries, camera system farewells, and some of the big announcements from Adobe's MAX event in LA.
And joining us to pour over the news is photo journalist writer curator, and, he assures, us no relation to Judi, it's Peter Dench. Hello, Peter,
Peter Dench: Thanks for having me, David, pleasure to be here.
David McClelland: Now you and I have crossed paths, a number of times in particular at the Photography Show. But if there's anyone listening today who hasn't come across you or your work, just tell us a bit about what you do.
Peter Dench: Well, I'm, according to the taxman, I've been a photographer since 1998, pretty much honed my craft in editorial. So for over a decade worked for magazines such as GQ, [00:02:00] Marie Claire, Tattler, uh, the broadsheet magazines, Sunday Times, Telegraph. So that was, that was kind of, you know, the bread and butter of my career and where I learned my craft.
As you mentioned, I write, for Amateur Photographer Magazine, in particular. I curate where I can, and, I run a festival called Photo North. So, adding strings to the bow. So you can, you can come at me from any of those angles, and I, I'm happy to chat about each or all of them.
David McClelland: Well, indeed. And yes, I have a strong hunch. Spoiler alert. I wrote the show notes for this. So yes, I know we're going to be coming at you from several of those angles.
So let's take a look at what's been happening in the news over the last month.
In the month that Sony celebrated 10 years of its Alpha full-frame mirrorless cameras, and that was started with the A7, A7R in October Uh, and as of a few weeks ago now, includes the beasts that are [00:03:00] the A7C2 and the A7CR.
Meanwhile, after, well, a little more than 10 years, but not much, Canon has killed off its EOS M mirrorless system. Now, as regular guest on the pod, Digital Camera World editor James Artaius pointed out, the writing was on the wall for the system ever since the ESR, EOS R line debuted in 2018 and, uh, well in particular the recent launches of the APS C R versions like the R7, R10 and R50. Now, I've spent some really good times with an EOS M over the years and it's a, it's a really solid, versatile, little, little sounds a bit diminutive but it's compact for sure camera and I'm going to be really sad to see them go.
Um, Peter, what are you shooting with at the moment? I saw something that you wrote for Amateur Photographer about a recent trip that you took, and actually your choice of camera was really important for you not ending up in some sort of [00:04:00] detention on that journey.
Peter Dench: Well that was the headline. Um, But I, I was fortunate enough to be given, an OM system, OM5,
David McClelland: Aha, okay.
Peter Dench: and then I suggested that it would make sense if I took the camera on a road trip, Um, and then I just thought what was the most interesting place to take it, uh, within the budget that I had.
David McClelland: Yes.
Peter Dench: I had a quick conversation with a, with a writer friend of mine. Uh, and he mentioned that, that a friend of his, who's ex SAS,
David McClelland: this already sounds worrying.
Peter Dench: mentioned that you could, you could fly from London to, to Moldova to the capital, and then drive three hours, three and a half hours to Odessa, uh, in Ukraine.
And it sounded a, a simple idea and on, on that basis, um, we, we agreed to go.
David McClelland: Now Odessa obviously what's been happening over the last, uh, 18 months or more there in, with a conflict with Russia, Odessa has been quite a, not necessarily in the frontline, like some of the east of of Ukraine, [00:05:00] but even down there on the coast, it has been quite severely scarred, I guess.
Peter Dench: Yeah, it's, it's not on the front line. I say it's the, the left, right, back and front line because it's been the recipient of, relentless, missile attacks since, since the invasion. And, I think I was, it took me about 545 days for me to decide that I had something to say, to add to visual archive of this extraordinary piece of history.
What was being produced on the front lines was being produced so well, I knew I couldn't add to that. And I'm very thankful for the photographers that were doing a great job. documenting that situation. So I didn't have to. But when I saw that the beaches, David, had opened in Odessa for the first time, you know, for me that was of interest.
You know, I'm a, I'm a seaside lads and it's a familiar sort of environment for me to photograph. So, you know, I finally felt that I had Yeah, something to add to the, visual conversation that was going on.
David McClelland: What was it you were [00:06:00] hoping to capture there? Was it, the juxtaposition between holiday and horror? Yeah.
Peter Dench: Uh, spot on, I think, it was, it was, yeah, the, the, the title of the reportage I gave, it was Sun, sea and Sandbags, um, so I wanted to contrast the, the lust for life, the drive of the residents of Odessa to have a normal, as normal existence as possible, but then to contrast that with what they do have to face.
If, you know, it is on a daily basis. If there's not actually missile strikes coming in, it's still the war rages in your head. Um, and, and I was only there for five days. But the paranoia does build and what that must be like, heading towards two years that the stress these people are under I, you know, I felt that was worth commenting on.
But I was I was accredited by the Ukrainian military before I went. So I was. You know, I had that protective cloak that a photojournalist needs. So, you know, [00:07:00] the camera was on display, the press pass was around my neck, and I felt relatively confident doing my job. But as you kind of alluded to, you know, for parity, I actually wanted to go to Russia, to Crimea.
To contrast what was happening there, but logistically that that didn't work out. So the next best thing I could decide to do was go to a place called Transnistria. or the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic.
David McClelland: Right. Okay. So this is, the PMR as it's more conveniently called. This is part of Moldova. How? How does this work?
Peter Dench: It's, it's a very, yeah, it's not internationally recognized, by, you know, pretty much most of the world, apart from a few other breakaway states. So it claimed independence, I think, in 1992 after a civil war with Moldova. Um, but it's still recognized as part of Moldova apart from the people in the PMR who recognize it as independent.
So it's, it's Russian backed. Um, [00:08:00] there's about 1, 500 Russian troops. station there who act as peacekeepers. Um, it's got the biggest arms depot, I think, in Eastern Europe, which is also, I think, why, why they're there. so after, after five days in Odessa, I kind of transferred to Moldova. I rested up for a couple of days and then headed into PMR and,
David McClelland: Did you have a press pass
Peter Dench: well this, no,
David McClelland: Peter
Peter Dench: no, because it, as far as I could tell, Western press weren't encouraged to go there.
David McClelland: Right.
Peter Dench: So what I had to do was shred. all my press passes or hide them. um, but I still had the stamps in the passport, which were a, were a bit of a sore thumb.
David McClelland: mm
Peter Dench: was hoping they wouldn't kind of notice them. And yeah, so I, it's, it's strange, you know, are you overprepared?
Are you overthinking it? Underthinking it? was I just being paranoid? for safety, I just hid all the memory cards from Ukraine in the lining of my camera bag. I [00:09:00] hid my press, my British press pass. Uh, you know, I dressed as touristy as I could. when I went to the border, you know, I, I, Was prepared, and I knew you had to show evidence of where you were staying and, you know, how long you wanted to stay.
So I, I answered these questions and then I was asked by the border guard, you know, if I had a camera. And,
David McClelland: what do you do at that point?
Peter Dench: no, you know, I did, obviously. It was on my shoulder, in my donkey bag. And, uh, they said, you know, is it a professional camera? And, of course, you know, I thought, well. What is a professional
David McClelland: Yes!
Peter Dench: Uh, so these questions kind of raged, and then I just decided this wasn't the time for debate, and he was staring at me for an answer, so I said, I have a camera, and then they asked to look at it.
because they wanted to see if it was a professional camera. So I just pulled out the OM5 and handed it over. He took it away showed [00:10:00] it to a colleague and then handed it back with my migration card and waved me through. So,
David McClelland: Wow.
Peter Dench: I genuinely think that the size and the look of the OM5, because it's quite sort of nostalgic looking, it's quite retro, possibly saved me from a tricky situation.
David McClelland: I've seen some of your selfies and your pictures from when you were in the PMR and you were, you were peak tourist looking there. Well done for that, for that disguise.
I can understand how the OM5 would have slipped under their radar. I'm sure people from OM would say, Oh, no, it's very much a professional camera or, you know, can be used by professionals. And then there's the whole. Philosophical debate about what, what is professional that you say was raging on in your brain?
Peter Dench: It's definitely a professional camera. I've shot magazine covers.
David McClelland: There we go
Peter Dench: predecessor. And, you know, I have no about, you know, using it on, on the higher end jobs, So, yeah. And, and then while photographing within the PMR over three [00:11:00] days, you know, it just felt that it was the right tool, uh, for that particular environment.
David McClelland: It's always about the right tool for the right job, isn't it? And sometimes if you are doing guerrilla shooting, uh, the more discreet the camera, the more able you are to slip under that radar. And also, depending upon your subject as well, this certainly works from a, video point of view.
If, you turn up to a nervous contributor with a dirty great big ENG camera, lighting and all the rest of that, then you're going to get a very... different response, a very different contribution than you are if you're filming on a smartphone or a small mirrorless camera where it's less intimidating.
You're able to have more of an authentic conversation rather than being intimidated by the equipment that goes with that conversation. where can we see this work? I have seen some of the pictures from this and they are fascinating and every bit what I would expect from some Peter Dench reportage.
Where's the best place that people can go and hear this story and see the work?
Peter Dench: There's an edit on my personal [00:12:00] website, peterdench. com, and the full story on Amateur Photographer Magazine website, so you can read, you know, there's 2000 accompanying words, some pictures there, the whole archive has gone on Getty Images, um, so yeah, you know, just, just have a hunt around and I'm sure a link will, pop up on your search engine.
David McClelland: And just to assist that we'll put a link to that Amateur Photographer story in the show notes and a link to your website as well. back to the news for a moment. Uh, something else that's been happening over the last few weeks or so.
Adobe Max. So a lot of creatives, of course, use Adobe products. And it was Adobe's big shindig in L. A. a couple of weeks ago when it showed off some of the latest features in its Creative Cloud suite of products. Some of our listeners, I know, were... out there, lucky you. Many of the rest of us were following it closely from elsewhere in the world, and I get the sense that, most of the actual announcements were briefed, leaked, publicly shared well in advance, [00:13:00] and of course Adobe's got a very active beat up program, and it's, uh, it sneaks things that it shares at various times of the year as well.
So there weren't too many surprises, but, just to summarize, lots of AI stuff, of course. We've seen Firefly, which is the name that Adobe gives to its generative AI tools. It's been gradually working its way into Photoshop over the last few months. Illustrator and Express as well. The Firefly image model gets this so there's a few different models that that Adobe has with Firefly so the image model that most people have been playing with that's got a quality upgrade i think it's on version two now so you've got even more detailed output and interpretation of your text prompts, like we've seen other models as well.
Dall-E 3 has been hitting the internet recently as well. Um, not just, not just Photoshop and Illustrator. Uh, of course, lots of, uh, lots of photographers swear by LightSquare apps sometimes as well. Let's face it, uh, [00:14:00] Lightroom. And that's got some, subtle, maybe, AI smarts in there too. So we're looking at a new lens blur.
tool that lets you create some depth in an image, a bit like the portrait mode stuff that you might see on smartphone cameras. That is coming with some AI goodness to Lightroom as well. You can even customise the type of bokeh in there as well, that's all fun. You've got some HDR stuff, some colour stuff as well that might be of interest. I'll put a link to the show notes there as well, uh, that covers that Lightroom stuff but one thing I did want to cover is... what's happening with Premiere Pro 24.
Lots of little things in this new release, like the... Timeline performance improvement, you know, if, you've used Premiere Pro recently, particularly if you're a Mac and you're on one of the M1, M2 processors, then that timeline at the bottom, it does just swing by. So quite how they've made that five times faster is, quite spectacular. AI audio, AI audio cleanup looks useful. Looks a bit similar to [00:15:00] what is, in Audition already, with some of the improved workflows there, um, But the headline is this text based editing. feature set.
So what Premiere Pro has done now, let's say that you've got an interview sequence that you're editing. So the first thing is Premiere Pro will transcribe the audio from your interview assets. You know, that's using a bit of machine learning stuff.
It's already been doing that, so there's nothing too smart there. And then you've got this transcription panel where you select the text you want from your source footage. And at this point, you're kind of editing video like you would a Word document. And in the source monitor, you're used to selecting your in out and then using your comma or your full stop to drop your select onto the main timeline.
You're doing that with words at the moment, which is, which is quite smart. And this helps you to create. Basically, a rough cut, quite a jumpy rough cut of your interview. because it's transcribed, it can spot the filler words, the ums and the errs.
It can spot the big [00:16:00] pauses and cut all of those out That's not the final finished piece, and you would want to move it around, add b roll, add cutaways, and all the rest of that stuff. But that's a real time saver. And I think that this kind of this new workflow, let's face it, will be very familiar to some people who've used other tools out there.
Things like Riverside, Riverside FM, and Descript are the big examples here, where you're moving around from dragging waveforms, to just dragging... still images or whatever it is to actually looking at the words. And that's how we often read words, of course, and it's much, much of a faster workflow to work like that.
And in fact, I've moved over, Peter, I've moved over to using word based editing for, for this podcast. We're an audio only podcast, but it would work fairly well, I think, as well with video because it's just a much faster workflow.
Peter Dench: I'm starting to doubt that I'm actually talking to a, to a person here, David, you know, I need proof you're not a [00:17:00] bot. To be honest, I wasn't sure what you were talking about for the last five minutes.
David McClelland: Oh, I see. Okay.
Peter Dench: gives an idea of how much I engage with, with new technologies and AI in particular.
I don't actively use it or consciously use it, but I know I am, you know, it must be in the cameras that I use, the face recognition or that kind of thing, and I, I know it's creeping into, to Lightroom or, or romping in, but I don't... it sits uncomfortably with me, you know, coming at it as a photojournalist, the manipulation of pictures.
I know Getty have put out a statement about content submissions and, you know, working their way around the questions of AI. So I keep an eye on it.
And I've kind of dabbled with apps that will transcribe interviews for me. Um, I don't know whether that comes under AI. I'm, I'm assuming it.
David McClelland: Yeah, it does. It's, I mean, AI is this massive umbrella of, uh, of different [00:18:00] technologies. And I think the transcription often comes under, uh, machine learning.
Peter Dench: Yeah. And I don't like it. I mean, You know, you mentioned you could edit out the ums and the errs and the, and I find if I, if I'm transcribing an interview, those ums and errs are important, um, you know, because you get a feel for how the person, is feeling and, you know, what their mood is and, you know, these, these pauses, I think, give a, lot of information and sometimes when I'm recording an interview, I'm not listening to the interview as, as hard as I should because I'm thinking of the next question.
And then going back and painstakingly transcribing it raises more questions and, you know, it almost helps me write the piece as I'm listening back.
David McClelland: It's part of your creative process.
Peter Dench: yeah, and by the end of the transcription, I've pretty much written it in my head, and so to, to hand that over to AI, just makes me jittery.
Will, will it all those sort of nuances of the interview could, could get [00:19:00] smoothed out or edited out or dumped and lost? And then, this is why I've never had a tennis coach, David, because I like the idiosyncrasy.
David McClelland: where's this going? Hang on.
Peter Dench: Because they coach out all the idiosyncrasies of your game and then you're just left with a whole club full of people who play the same way.
And, you know, I like to be, I like the disruption, uh, and the uniqueness of, original content.
David McClelland: But I think this brings you back to the point that you were making a moment ago, about the tennis. if what as individuals, as humans, frankly, we're able to do is to remain individual, not to become part of a homogenous mass of averages, which, AI may well be able to create, that is what helps us to stand out it is that individuality.
But going back to Getty, Getty, I saw a news story, only yesterday as we're recording, Shutterstock will now let you transform real photos [00:20:00] using AI, so you'll be able to edit images from its library using an AI, and it says that it will compensate artists if their images are licensed. after they're edited with AI.
So have spoken with stock libraries over the last couple of years about the existential threat in some ways that generative AI will pose to certain parts of their business model. So I think it's very interesting that Shutterstock is taking a step there.
sorry go on,
Peter Dench: time talking to stock libraries
You're so committed. That's what you do in your spare time for fun. Well,
David McClelland: just one of the conversations, one of the many conversations, uh, that I have, uh, with different people around the industry.
and the other thing, going back to the ethics piece, and you mentioned your role as a, as a photojournalist and proving the, authenticity, the actuality of the images that have been taken and whether there are, fake, fake news, manipulated images that are getting in there.
Leica. Leica's latest camera encrypts verification info [00:21:00] into every photo, was the headline I also saw yesterday on, uh, on The Verge. I'm sure that's been reported elsewhere as well, and it's the M11P that uses Adobe's Content Authenticity Initiative to cryptographically sign each image. But I think it's interesting to see camera manufacturers, um, Obviously, Adobe very much in the middle of, of imagery there as well, uh, doing what they can quite early on to open up that conversation and to put some measures in place to try and, ensure the veracity of the images that are being captured.
Very important as a photojournalist like yourself, Peter.
Peter Dench: well done Leica, you know doing what they've consistently done throughout their history pioneering and understanding and adapting and learning what needs to be done. So yeah, I applaud this move.
David McClelland: It's a 9, 000 camera, so I hope that that technology trickles down to other cameras that photojournalists of all flavours of [00:22:00] camera will be able to benefit from in due course.
Peter Dench: Uh, I didn't see the price.
David McClelland: I'll put a link to all of those stories in the show notes.
(MEET UP INTRO)
David McClelland: Right then, time now to head over to Covent Garden in London, England where a couple of weeks ago the Photography and Video Show and SheClicks held the first ever Women Who Photo Meetup.
David McClelland: Ange, we're here at the House of Photography. It's a fantastic venue. What's going to be happening here today? You're
Angela Nicholson: right, it really is a great venue. And we're meeting to get photographs of members of SheClicks to just show, you know, women enjoying photography, posing with their cameras, having a bit of fun, just to promote the idea that, you know, there are women who are interested in photography as well as men.
David McClelland: And what's going to be happening with [00:23:00] these photographs once they're taken?
Angela Nicholson: Well, they're going to be used at The Photography Show, I think they're going to be displayed on screens, but we'll also be using them in the run up to the show to promote it and to try and encourage more women to join in.
David McClelland: We have dozens of women in photography just waiting outside in the holding area right now.
They're all going to be coming in here into the studio in a few moments. It is a fantastic community that you've got here and a really engaged community as well. How long has it taken you to this level engagement, to this number of
Angela Nicholson: people? Well, I mean, we started in 2018 and it grew very quickly, you know, within just a few months, we got to 1000 and I think there's always been a good level of engagement, but I have to be honest, actually, when the pandemic hit and we were all in lockdown, that's when the group really gelled online and we started doing more sort of virtual coffee mornings and meetups and stuff like that online.
And then as soon as we were able to meet up again in person, There was so much enthusiasm for getting out and meeting people and chatting. And the very first meetup we after the lockdown, we went to RHS Wisley and there weren't a [00:24:00] huge number of us because obviously still people were a bit nervous and had to be careful about numbers, but we sat down and we chatted for two hours.
you know, just about everything. And everyone went home absolutely exhausted and, you know, really inspired. Because we also went round together taking photographs. So there's always been that level of engagement. But every time you have a meet up, another person comes along and somebody else joins. And then they hear about it and, you know, it just grows and grows and grows.
And it's, it's just, uh, sort of snowballed really, I suppose.
David McClelland: Who is it you have here today taking the portrait?
Angela Nicholson: We're very lucky today, we've got Emily Endeen, who is a Fujifilm ambassador, or X photographer as they call them, with an X rather than an EX. Uh, and she's been doing a really great job. It's great fun to have her here.
Emily Endean: My photography kind of falls into many genres, I feel. Uh, my passion is landscapes and seascapes. Just being outdoors in nature was [00:25:00] always my passion. So any photography that I can kind of bring into that realm.
So I go out and shoot land and sea just for me, but then I also shoot portraits in those environments. Now I work with a lot of brands doing commercial kind of lifestyle photography out in nature as well. So whether that's, outdoor adventure wear or shoes or... I don't know, uh, sunglasses, like, there's so many things that I can take out into that element to photograph, and those kind of things have just organically happened over the years and just kind of, I don't know, multi genres, I guess.
David McClelland: Does your work have a, flavour or a feel, do your, clients come to you because they, feel as though they're going to get a texture with your work, do you think?
Emily Endean: Yeah, I do. I'm always chasing great light. So I always feel like I'll try and show things in the best light or in the best conditions.
So I think because of my passion for landscapes, I'm very good at kind of reading the forecast or knowing what moments the light's going to break through. And I mean, it's a bit unpredictable, [00:26:00] isn't it? But it's being ready for that moment. So I think a lot of what I do is based around. Chasing those moments of great light, and I hope that comes through, I think that comes through in my work.
David McClelland: And your journey towards being a photographer, um, that wasn't what you did when you first entered the working world, there was a, moment or a period of time over which you, chose to move in and become ultimately where you are now, which is a full time photography first person. Briefly describe that journey
Emily Endean: So I always loved photography. So even as a small child I had a little film camera that I used to take photos of my family and things. So I always had that passion there. But yeah, as I grew up and left school I kind of fell into the insurance industry and I was an insurance broker for almost 20 years.
And then alongside to that, I was slowly building what was a hobby in photography to something more. and it gradually became something more and, and I eventually, I went part time in my insurance work to try and see, explore it, if I could do extra days. It's pushing my photography [00:27:00] and just, I think just by practicing your art over and over is, is how you improve and how, and I got to a level that, that I was able to actually think about changing the industry that I worked in.
It went hand in hand with completely changing my life up and I left my house, left my job, I moved into my van and decided I would go full time in my photography work. So this is going back about a year and a half ago.
David McClelland: It's interesting to me, the decision to change, not only how you work, but also how you live.
Moving into the van, for example, that's a real... physical manifestation of following a passion. You know, you're able to literally follow your passion around the great outdoors,
Emily Endean: Yeah, and I think especially because the idea was, roughly two years ago, I became an ambassador with Fujifilm.
And, the kind of arrangement is that I can travel and do talks for them at different places or I can take kit, and try it out in different places. So I took the X T5 to, Scotland, not long before it was [00:28:00] launched so that I could get like some test shots and get some content that they could use for the launch.
So there's all these little things that kind of came together. That I thought, by hitting the road and being able to say yes to anything and travel anywhere, that was broadening my horizons to open myself up to more opportunity. And I think that was important because looking back to living in a house and all the expenses that go with it and I was in a well paid insurance job.
There's always then going to be the fear of taking that leap and actually doing something different and you don't know how that's going to go. So I think by doing both at the same time, it just works.
David McClelland: If there's any industry... where you're able to make an assessment of risk when you're moving into a new career surely the insurance industry, where you're coming from, is one of those. But I'm sure that there must have been that, fear, that, uh, am I making the right decision? And is that why you did the part time thing, first of all? Were you kind of easing yourself in to see... How it felt whether you felt as though economically as well as from a kind of [00:29:00] passion point of view this was the right move for you?
Emily Endean: Yeah, I think by easing myself in made things feel much more of a gentle process because Looking back like I said, I can't is a hobby with my photography So I never really saw myself as being good enough I would compare myself with other people that were doing full time professional photography And I would compare myself and always think, oh, I'm not quite at that level.
And I think by taking the opportunity to go part time in my day job and dabble a bit more in the world of photography, I got to do more and more without, in my mind, thinking, oh, I'm making this big leap and it being scary. It felt like a more natural process. That when I did go completely full time, it didn't feel so scary, and I think because I was building up my photography business and I was getting more and more work, after two or three years of doing it part time, it felt like the right time that actually I could afford to do it a little bit more and there was more work coming in at that point.
David McClelland: And the rollercoaster has led you to where we are here today at the [00:30:00] incredible facility that they have here in central London, Fujifilm, and you've been taking portraits today of dozens upon dozens of female photographers as part of the Photography and Video Show and SheClicks Women in Photography meet up.
Emily Endean: it's been a really interesting one because I don't normally shoot, with artificial lighting. I don't normally shoot in the studio, so for me to come along, I just felt like this was a huge honour to be part of a campaign. To be able to capture the portraits of women in photography and really highlight, Highlight the visibility and in the run up to the Photography Show.
David McClelland: How important do you think those support networks, these these communities are, particularly for people who may be like yourself? didn't start off in photography, but are following a passion, are following a need to do something professionally and maybe looking at making a move into the industry later on in their working lives.
Emily Endean: I think community is really important for many reasons.
But you can learn from each other, and you can get support from each other, because you can feel alone. Like, like I mentioned, I got to a point [00:31:00] where I wasn't sure whether I was good enough. And I think having a support network around you to reassure you that you are doing well and everyone's there for you.
And, you know, no one's against you. Everyone's rooting for you. Everybody wants you to do well. yeah, just being able to learn from each other and pick up tips along the way. Like today, I'm doing the photography, but there's so many other people getting involved and taking photos too, and it's just a really nice feeling, like everyone's learning something and, and getting involved.
It's really good. Well,
David McClelland: I'm really looking forward to seeing the output on social media and elsewhere over the next few months, thank you for taking time out of what is a really busy day.
Emily Endean: Yeah, thank you so much.
I can't wait to see how it all comes together as well. Just yeah Really looking forward to being at the show.
David McClelland: [00:32:00] What a busy morning it's been. Now, what have you made of it? What have the other members of SheClicks made of it?
Angela Nicholson: Well, firstly, it's been great fun. I think everyone's got a profile picture that they're going to be really pleased with.
We've got some fun group shots. Everyone was engaged from the moment we started. Because you never really know how these things are going to go. You think, oh, it'll be great fun, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, you say, right, do you want to have your photograph taken? That first person says, okay, you know, and just takes that plunge forward and has a few photos taken.
Then the groups. Then we all started doing a bit of dressing up with hats and scarves and silly glasses and stuff like that. And I think the most important thing is everyone's had a really great time.
David McClelland: Something that we've been chatting about today as well [00:33:00] is about women role models in photography and how that, tide we hope is turning and that, you know, Emily chatting about the work that she does at universities and inspiring young people as well, that she will be a, an inspiring woman in photography and many of the people, including yourself, that we're seeing here today will also hopefully inspire people in the future too.
Angela Nicholson: Thank you. I'm sure Emily will inspire lots and lots of people. She always inspires me with her amazing photography, so it's really, really delightful to have her here today
David McClelland: And a big thanks to Emily and Dean and Angela from SheClicks and of course to everybody who came along to what was a fantastically enjoyable day. [00:34:00]
Peter, alongside the photojournalist assignments, writing works, trips to war torn states and so on, you, uh, somehow also find time to curate a festival. Tell us about Photo North.
Peter Dench: Photo North. I feel a bit like the Nicolas Cage character in Leaving Las Vegas, I can't quite remember or pinpoint why I'm doing Photonorth, but I know that it has to be done. when I made that decision to do it, it was the right one. Thinking back, the first one was in 2018, and, I'm based in London you know, I get to see a lot of exhibitions, visit a lot of photographers. And what I started to notice was after a short run, the exhibitions that are often created, uh, considerable personal expense, so the photographers would then go into storage, on top of the wardrobe or under the bed. And I also feel that people were reluctant to travel [00:35:00] large distances to see exhibitions, you know, because again, that's cost. And everything was becoming more localized. What I was looking for was an opportunity to grab exhibitions.
That had come to the end of their run, or they were coming to the end of their life and give them a new home, you know, give them a new audience, up cycle them. So Photo North was a kind of response to that, and my sister in law, Sharon Price, who is the co founder of Photo North, she's based in Harrogate.
David McClelland: That's pretty north.
Peter Dench: That's pretty North.
We ran a gallery together in Leeds around 2010, 2011
David McClelland: Okay.
Peter Dench: White Cloth Gallery. And we ran that for three years. So we'd been looking for another opportunity to host, you know, an event and Photo North came out of that. So we're now heading towards Photo North 5. So the first two were in Harrogate, then we moved it to Manchester.
And this year's festival was in Leeds, and the people of Leeds [00:36:00] welcomed us, responded well to us, so we're gonna keep it there, for next year. So you know, you say it's, uh, where do I find the time, but we have a good team, uh, we rely on a lot of goodwill, so we kind of just nudge things in the right direction. Uh, usually a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, round about 12 exhibitions across 80 to 100 meters of hanging space.
David McClelland: Right.
Peter Dench: We try and have a program of talks, a market area, which is sort of supposed to be a good vibe of zines, books. Yeah, we want people to feel comfortable, nourished, inspired. And involved.
David McClelland: So, and that's what I wanted to tune into really was the difference in the vibe between London where you're based and exhibitions, festivals that you'll be very familiar with having been part of as a contributor or as a visitor. How different is the vibe at Photo North? You say it's more accessible, friendlier?
Peter Dench: I'd hope [00:37:00] so, you'd have to ask the people that come, but we try and, you know, have world renowned or established photographers exhibit. And then emerging, up and coming, or you know, or even students. So part of our ethos is, to do that. So the emerging photographers can then say they exhibited alongside Chris Floyd or Tom Stoddard or whoever, you know.
So we want to be a place without ego. We're professional, um, but we like to be informal.
And April next year, we're at the Carriageworks Theatre, in Millennium Square, which is, you ten minute walk from the train station. And there's a big student community there, which is important to us.
David McClelland: What do you get from the curation? boxes does it tick for Peter? Creating these events, you must feel as though you are contributing to something, helping something. What is it?
Peter Dench: I mean, all I know is, you know, say I'm 51 now, but when I turned [00:38:00] 40, I realized that my competition wasn't going away, photographically.
David McClelland: Mm hm.
Peter Dench: And they were actually doing good work. And I'm comfortable enough with my position in the industry now to be able to kind of reach out and you know these are collaborative times David. What have you got that I need? What have I got that you can utilize? You know, I get a lot of joy from from doing that from curating from giving people a leg up allowing them a space to show new work, again, it just feels like the right thing to do.
We're not sure what the goal is, but we're enjoying the journey. So we've got channel four involved now. Um,
David McClelland: moved to Leeds as well, I guess.
Peter Dench: At the previous festival and at the next one, they're going to have a clinic, a drop in clinic where you can go in and show your portfolio and they'll kind of host an event that will guide you how to break into that industry, how to become an on set photographer or how to photograph campaigns for their [00:39:00] shows.
David McClelland: Speaking of students and their role, you have a pop up event taking place, also in the North, in Sheffield later on in November, too. Tell us about that.
Peter Dench: Yeah, well Photo North Festival is our kind of showpiece event, but there are add ons to, to the business. So yeah, we can provide, pop up events, in your hotel, in your corporate boardroom, your school, wherever. And this particular event on the 16th of November is at the Park Hill complex, which is the iconic, flats in Sheffield,
David McClelland: Oh,
Peter Dench: many of which have been turned into student accommodation.
So we've got one evening where we've got a photographer called Richard Davis, uh, coming to give a talk. Um, we've invited the Sheffield Modernist Society to come in and give a short presentation. There's a Stephen Marland of Modern Mooch will be providing a talk, that supports the Modernist Society photographs.
So, again, it's kind of trying to [00:40:00] take this and put it in an environment, of students where they can engage, uh, get involved, you know, there's always a, a bar, some nibbles. But we, we also ran a student competition, the winners of that will go on display for a month to two months in the premises as well.
David McClelland: Tell me, if people want to engage with Photo North, accept a leg up, as you put it what's the best way of them doing that?
Peter Dench: Just visit our website, which is... Photo North festival, I think, uh, or our Facebook page. But, we don't lock down the pro, you know, the next one is in six months, uh, and we're still juggling what to show because we have to grab available exhibitions. We don't lock down the final content until probably two months before, because someone might have a book out or, you know, things pop up. So, bear with us.
David McClelland: We will put a link to the Photo North Festival in our show notes. And whether you're listening to [00:41:00] is right at the beginning of November, all because of the magic of podcasts, at some point in the future. Then do go over there and take a look.
Right, that is pretty much all that we have time for today, but we will be back on the first Thursday of next month for more.
A reminder that the in-person Photography and Video Show takes place at the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham, England from the 16th to the 19th of March 2024. All of your favourite brands will be there, from Canon and Nikon, to Sony and OM, Fujifilm, to Panasonic, and many, many more besides.
And, among the amazing professionals we have speaking at the show this year, there's some Peter Dench fella speaking about giving plenty of notice for people talking at the show.
Peter Dench: I'll be there. The Photography Show have been very helpful in helping advise and develop Photo North in various ways as well. So, yeah, it's, uh, that's why we come after [00:42:00] the Photography Show.
David McClelland: Bless you, Well, I look forward to seeing you at The Photography Show and catching up, maybe having a chat there about what you've been up to. And also, yeah, I'm in the Midlands, I am regularly up in Leeds with work, So, yeah, I hope to see you there.
If you like what we do here, then please do hit subscribe, give us a review. We've been climbing the podcast charts all around the world over the last month or so. Hello to you if you're listening in Iceland, Cyprus and Ireland, by the way. Hi there. We'd love your help to spread the word even further and help even more people to find our little show.
Do drop us a line at thephotographyshow@futurenet.com, on email, on Instagram, @thephotographyshow, and on the platform formally known as Twitter @ukphotoshow Peter, it's been an absolute privilege to have you on the show this month. Where can people tune in to you and your work online?
Peter Dench: Just head to the website peterdench.com, Facebook, Instagram, I'm at [00:43:00] denchphoto,
David McClelland: Thank you again for joining us, and thank you all for listening in too. See you next time. Bye bye..