Episode 4: Navigating the AI Revolution: Practical Insights for Healthcare and Biopharma Marketers

In this engaging episode of OUTCOMES, the conversation revolves around the increasingly vital role of AI in marketing, business operations, and various day-to-day tasks. Host Bill Gadless brings in his Co-Founder and CEO at emagine/emagineHealth, Brett Cohen, to discuss their personal experiences using AI-enabled tools. They touch on how AI is not confined to pure AI tools but extends to tools that leverage AI for enhancing functionality and efficiency.

The episode highlights a dual perspective on AI tools, considering both enterprise-level applications and user-centric platforms. Bill and Brett agree on the importance of continuous exploration and adaptation to AI-powered technologies, emphasizing that AI won't replace jobs but rather create opportunities and provide incremental gains in productivity.

A substantial part of the discussion delves into future predictions, with Brett identifying the potential disruptions and transformations across various domains, from strategy and analytics to SEO and development. They foresee a dramatic shift in personalization in websites, predicting experiences built on-the-fly and tailored to individual visitors. They also see the rise of chatbots and virtual assistants becoming the norm, potentially changing the way people navigate websites altogether.

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the fluid and ever-changing nature of AI, urging the listeners to keep learning and evolving to stay ahead in a rapidly changing technological landscape. It’s a must-listen for marketers, developers, and anyone interested in understanding how AI is reshaping our daily lives and business practices.


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Website: 
https://www.emaginehealth.com/

LinkedIn: 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/emagineusa/

Insights:
https://www.emaginehealth.com/blog/

Thank you for listening to OUTCOMES. Please find more healthcare and biopharma marketing thought leadership in the Insights section of our website and follow us on LinkedIn!

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to Outcomes, the healthcare and biopharma marketing podcast, where marketing leaders discuss the most effective strategies for the health sectors. Coming from a digital first, AI powered perspective. All right. Welcome to our next episode of the outcomes podcast. Today, we're going to talk about AI. Uh, the title of our episode here is navigating the AI revolution, practical insights for healthcare and. biopharma marketers. And I have with me here, Brett Cohen, who is my co founder, our CEO at Imagine, Imagine Health. We've been at this business for, I don't even want to, I don't even want to count at this point, 25 plus years or something like that. And, um, specifically what we're here to talk about today is, is artificial intelligence. And especially as that pertains to the kind of AI that's really developed and accelerated since around the very end of November, 2022, when chat GPT went live and. I think, you know, we really started to feel it come into our lives more, a little bit into 2023, and then it's just been, you know, AI has basically been everything that everyone has talked about since then. And so Brett specifically, uh, he really jumped into it. He loves technology. Um, and just decided to learn everything that he could very quickly. So he's been. He's been digesting every podcast, blog, YouTube series, um, organizations. Just last week, he was at the Marketing AI Institute's big conference. So, um, so that's why we're here. We're just gonna, we're going to talk about a lot of the observations that we've both had, what, where we see this going, where we see real pragmatic applications of it today, and. And where we, you know, nobody really knows, but where we could see it headed in the near future, at least. So, you know, just to start, Brett, we'll just kind of share like a general overview back when this started to explode early this year and you know, why. Interested you so much at that time. Yeah, I think I'm trying to think of, uh, really when, you know, obviously when chat GPT came out, um, in November, you know, I wasn't really on the lookout for AI, like some other people, you know, that have been watching this, um, industry for years. You know, the guys that started the marketing AI conference, like they started. Seven years ago, and you know, nobody had any interest. I was talking to, uh, the founder Paul on a, uh, bus ride back from an event, and he was saying that, you know, he saw what it was going to be seven years ago, and he jumped. He just jumped in. He sold his business. He had an agency like us. He sold it and just went all in, but nobody was interested. Even, uh, the last event in person event they had, obviously over the last few years, some of these events, you know, they didn't have it, uh, because of COVID, but the last in person, I think he told me they had two or 300 people and this year they had, uh, 700 plus people and they're already anticipating about 1500 people next year. So obviously, along with everybody else, um. You know, I became aware of, of AI and chat GPT, um, probably at the end of the year, I would say, uh, and. You know, when I first kind of used it, um, I was just kind of blown away and obviously, like you said earlier in the opening, we've been doing this for 25 years and plus, and I'm definitely more on the technical side, although I'm not a developer, um, but I played with a lot of the technology, uh, over the years, you know, from the beginning, you, you know, that, um, And I just started kind of testing it like everybody else, helped me write a blog post, helped me reformat this email that I was going to write, give me some ideas about something I was looking at at the time. And I was just amazed and I kind of felt right away that this was going to be a game changer, you know, similar to when I did my first website. At the end of 1995 and, you know, really saw the potential and said, everybody's going to need a website or every business is going to need a website and was faced with people telling me, what do I need a website for? All my customers know me. So that's kind of what I thought of at the time is that this is like the next huge thing. So, and, uh, you know, quite frankly, I was really, um, concerned on how it would impact our business because I could see it right away that, um, there was going to be a lot of things that were going to change. Uh, we haven't really seen it yet, uh, as we've been testing, but we know it's coming or at least I know it's coming. So I kind of jumped in, uh, with everything, uh, started to. Like you said, watch and learn and test and play with a bunch of different tools. And honestly, I, it's reinvigorated me, you know, I've been, like you said, we've been doing this for a long time and I was, you know, kind of in my mind at one foot on the beach and ready to kind of move on until the next phase of my life. And then this came out and I was just amazed. So, uh, that's really the beginning of it. And. You know, I've leveraged it, um, in a variety of different ways, obviously, well beyond kind of what I call the low hanging fruit, which has helped me write some content to give me some ideas. I've tested in a variety of ways and I still test it. Yeah, yeah. And we'll get to some of the specific applications. I mean, I think we've both, we've both talked to a lot of people, some together. We talked to clients, we've talked to some prospects. You've talked, we've talked to friends, we've talked to our own team here. So it's, it's like, you know, you get a lot of different perspectives, a lot of different feelings on where this is going, you know, you still have a lot of people, I think, in denial. Oh, that's not going to change my life. We still need the human touch. We still, which no one's denying, this is not going to replace humans. We all know that, but some people, you know, just a reluctancy to embrace it. And I think that, you know, a lot of that is just, it's two things. It's fear, you know, um, and it's just, and it's just lack of knowledge about what it even means, including myself. I mean, I'm not a true technology guy, so I know. Some, but I don't know the intricacies of it all. So, you know, what, share a little bit of like, you know, your observations from some of the people we've talked to, some of your own friends and colleagues outside of Imagine and just the general kind of, you know, tone that you're feeling from people about it all. Yeah. I think at this point, because it's been in the news so much, you know, on a daily basis. And I've talked to teachers that are concerned how it's going to affect education. I've talked to other agency owners that are, you know, concerned how it's going to affect their business. Like we are, we've talked to clients and we've talked to potential clients. And I think a lot of people are, you know, kind of where you are, where you've played with it a lot, you know, to help with content and ideation. But I really don't think the mainstream people really understand how to leverage even the basic stuff, um, to really give them an advantage. Because even with just chat GPT or barred from Google, you know, really what it does is it and I say it a bunch of different ways, but you know, makes you makes you have superpowers. You know, we're we're born with two hands. It gives you six just allows you to to take whatever skills you have and really give you superpowers. Uh, and I know that You know, sounds simplistic, but it's true. I've been able to do things that I may have been able to do in the past with some help from people on our team that are. Developers, uh, but I'm doing it all on my own and, and I'm just, you know, and I'm trying to leverage this on a daily basis with everything I do as a CEO of a company, not specifically in delivering a solution for a client, but solutions for myself. Uh, and it's, it's really helped and I, and I turn to it as much as I can. So if you're asking, where do I think it's going? I obviously think it's, uh, it's gonna continue to, uh, to grow. I think it's going to, um, really, uh, provide the ability to increase productivity for everybody. I can't even think of it. One, you know, job, you know, where you can't use a, I may be in the trades. Yeah, if you're an electrician or a plumber, you're not going to, you know, use AI to wire a house. Um, but I think if you're a knowledge worker, I think if you're not leveraging AI, um, you know, you're going to be at a huge disadvantage and, you know, as far as, you know, needing somebody else or needing help, I think there's always going to need to be. You know, a pilot that can land the plane like none of these tools are going to do something completely for you, even the ones that are, you know, the AIs that are strung together that, you know, kind of came out, um, a few months ago where you could programmatically tell it to do a bunch of things like go, you know, I'm going on a vacation to Italy and go book my flight and go get me a rental car and book a hotel like that will happen. Um, But it's not there yet. You still need somebody in between. So, Ian, I think it's gonna, you know, open up opportunities that may not exist right now, um, that will exist in the future, in the near future. Yeah, I can say, I mean, it's, ChatGBT is open on my computer all day, and that's not to generate content. I don't generate a lot of content, but it just, just, it's just, it's basically an assistant. For me, it, it, I just turned to it to help me outline or draft anything I'm doing. That's it. That's from a video script to, um, to, to like, uh, certain things that clients may need help with, with, with us helping them outline to plan a project. Uh, we, we named a company recently and, and, and I learned through it. Once again, it didn't do the job for me. It, but it certainly gave me like 10, 000 words for me to then put together in ways that were creative and would work at, sure, I could go to, you know, thesaurus. com or something, but it was just different, the level and speed and amount of things that it can give you. It's just incredible. So. You know, it literally, like you said, there's practically nothing that we, that we can't do it. And that's, I'm just talking about chat GPT. I mean, I also use mid journey and to create images, that's kind of fun and a unique and unique tool for branding, but there's just a whole slew and you know, um, A lot more than me and a lot more than most people in terms of the various tools and applications, a way that we can use that. And I want to talk a little bit about that. We're going to gradually go through practically our whole agency and talk about the ways that AI is being leveraged through each of our competencies. But with you specifically, you know, you aren't, you aren't one of the people here that delivers any of those competencies directly, but you're still using it. For instance, I mean, you can talk about anything you want, but one of the things you've worked on here is our own marketing and our own email sequences and data enrichment. And so talk a little bit about some of the stuff you did there. Yeah, I think, um, one of the other things that I jumped in, uh, at the end of the year, beginning of this year, um, internally was, was to try to help with our own internal legion. And I learned a lot about. You know, how to be effective and a lot of it comes down to personalization and, you know, digging, uh, much deeper than just getting a list from zoom info or HubSpot or Apollo or wherever, uh, and then just kind of sending these generic, um, email messages or LinkedIn messages or, or, um, you know, voicemails, um, um, to people. In that we needed to get a lot more personalized and personal, um, with the people that we're trying to reach. Uh, and I think in the past it was difficult to do that, um, for a variety of reasons, either technical limitations or you couldn't, it was too, uh, time consuming to try to, you know, go through a list of, You know, 500 names and and look at each one and look at each one's website or do a variety of You know different types of research to try to find something that could stand out in your messaging. So, you know while I didn't initially Use chat GPT to get the information where I really leveraged chat GPT Um, initially, and this is probably around January was I, I had it help, uh, help me write Python scripts that allowed me to kind of go out and scrape. Uh, some websites, um, or, or, you know, different, uh, sources of data to, to help me enrich our, our own data. And I'm not a developer, and I, I don't think I ever touched Python, or maybe I touched it a long time ago. And because I had, like you said, ChatGPT as an assistant, anytime I got stuck, I would just ask ChatGPT for the answer, or ask it for help. And it wasn't, it wasn't just cut and dry. It didn't do it for me. I would have to explain it. I'd have to prompt right. I'd have to test. But it, every time I got stuck, it would help me through the process and I was able to, um, do specific things. Uh, like I was able to run a list and see if the companies on our list were doing Google ads or doing LinkedIn ads. Um, we did, uh, we did one enrichment where we were able to figure out if any of the pharma companies in our list had FDA approved drugs. And, you know, I was able to just search a database, an online database, and bring back the results and save them into, um, into our own internal database so we could market later. Uh, It's just a so many different ways that I've used it. I've helped. It's helped me do all sorts of integrations with custom API's, uh, leveraging Zapier and make, you know, things that I probably could have done before that just taken me way longer. It was able to cut the time and. Um, you know, by 90% and to just be a little specific, you're using, when you say you're doing these things, you're using other tools in conjunction, right? Because if you take typical person again, who might be like me, where I have the, I'm used to the chat GPT prompt, I have the paid package GPT four, but I'm not using other tools. You're, you're not just doing these things you just named at the. OpenAI Chattopadhyay website. Correct? No, no, I'm not. No, I'm, I'm, I'm doing it in other places. I'm writing Python scripts in a, in a, you know, in a program, um, visual studio code, you know, but when I get stuck, because I'm not a developer, when I get stuck, I'm turning where this was my process before if I was working in PHP or whatever, or in My sequel or any of the technologies when I got stuck, I would use slack and ask somebody on our team who knew more about that than I did, and we would have to work back and forth. And sometimes they're busy and they don't get back to me right away. So. Now, I'm just going to chat GPD and asking for the answer and getting it. Um, so, but I am, I'm using all sorts of different tools to do this. I'm using, um, some browser extensions. I'm using, uh, Apollo, which is really good. I'm using Clay, which is another really good tool that has a lot of AI, uh, integrations built in. I'm using, um, extensions in Google Sheets for chat GPT using Jasper using writer. Yep. I've tested. I think I have probably 10 or 15 subscriptions to all these different services, Pinecone and um, so many different ones. I actually need to go through and cancel some of them. Well, I think this is, this is going to be one of the biggest challenges. I mean, there's not a day that goes by that my LinkedIn doesn't have about 10. Infographics that I see in my feed that each show, uh, 50 AI or chat GPT tools. that should be used for this and that and everything else. And, you know, I think most people are going to have a hard time just figuring out, okay, which ones do I actually need? Like, for instance, you're doing a lot more technical things for me, if anything, I'm over on the content side of things. So. So we, meaning myself and Shannon, our marketing manager, we're looking at something, a couple of, you just mentioned between Jasper and writer and some others to determine, you know, what are the various tools that we can leverage AI, run them for, through a few tools to help with grammar, to. tone a bit, um, all those things. So, I mean, we're, we're experimenting with those. I mentioned mid journey, which is for image creation. Um, but it's, it's endless and I think it's overwhelming. And, you know, even that's going to be an area that I think we can help our clients with, um, just in terms of even just figuring out which ones matter. But, um, any major takeaways from. The marketing AI conference. I know you and I were going back and forth and we have, you know, I think one of the big knowns for our business at least is where search is going to go. None of us know. So that's a hot topic, obviously content. That's an ongoing thing. And, you know, but any other major takeaways that you didn't have going into that conference? Um, I don't know if there's any major takeaways that I didn't have. I think some of my takeaways were reinforcement for. Kind of what I already thought I knew or thought was going to happen. You know, I would say that what's happening now, like you brought up about all the different platforms and ice art graphic too, that just had so many, it's, it's a gold rush right now, you know, and picture yourself on the way to go mine gold. And, you know, on the way you're getting, everybody has the best shovel and everybody has the best. sifter and and everybody's trying to sell you the best tools to get to the goal. And I think that's kind of what's happening right now is that there's a rush, you know, to to capture, uh, market share to capture the gold. And I think that there are, there really aren't any clear winners at the moment. I think, you know, I argue that, you know, the big players will be the big winners when it's all said and done. Google. Microsoft was a first mover on this, uh, for the first time in a while they were first, uh, out of the gate, obviously, because they're, you know, tightly partnered with, um, open A. I. So I think the big players are going to be the ones that dominate at the end. Um, or not at the end, but in the future. Um, I think, you know, the advice and you've been on some of these calls that I think We've given to people is, you know, a couple of things. Number one, don't spend a ton of money on anything. Uh, number two, don't enter into any long term contracts, like even if you're going to do something like a monthly subscription, make sure it's monthly and don't buy annual subscriptions because. I've seen it ourself, you know, I started working internally to develop some chat bots that we could put on Clients websites that was all going to be custom and then you know a month later People are doing it and you can buy it for six dollars a month So, you know, even internally, uh, we're trying, you know, not to spend a ton of money and, um, and we want to test a lot of different things. So I think that, you know, the key takeaways are that the AI that we're using right now, all of us collectively is, is probably the least capable AI that we'll ever use. It's only going to get better. Um, even though, you know, there are a lot of people complaining that, uh, chat GPT 4 is getting worse. Um, I think now, uh, everybody is a developer, even if you're not a developer. I think you can leverage skills. And even if it's as simple as, you know, writing formulas in Excel or, um, you know, Google sheets or something that you're using on a daily basis. Uh, helping you work in that tool better, even if it's word, how to format, uh, how to do certain things. Um, I think that, uh, you know, there's gonna be a huge, uh, influx of content. I, I think I saw one report that said, you know, between 2020 and 2022, content online had increased like twofold. And now they're saying that between 2023 and 2025, it's going to increase 20 fold because of these tools are allowing people to create a lot of content. Uh, and with, you know, rapid development of content is obviously there's going to be a lot of bad content and a lot of useless content. So. It's going to be up to, uh, companies, I think, to, even if you're using tools like this to create content, you're still going to need some people to, uh, edit the content and at least look at it to make sure it's relevant. Yeah. Um, and again, I, and I think the, my overall message in this talk is, is try to leverage some sort of AI in everything you're doing, whether it's chat, GPT or BARD or, uh, Bain. You know, whatever, whatever the tools are, um, and I think, you know, you'll start seeing, uh, AI vertical AI tools, um, in everything you use, uh, Microsoft's coming out with co pilot that's going to be on windows. That's going to act exactly as you described. It's going to be a little pop up personal assistant that's going to help you across your whole desktop. Uh, there are tools, they have Copilot for GitHub that helps write code where you just have to type in exactly what you're looking for and it'll actually write the code for you. Uh, and it's good. I think the CRM systems like Salesforce, they have their own AI now. Where you can analyze your own data HubSpot has one, uh, I think you're going to start seeing instead of chat GPT, you're going to start seeing, uh, AI embedded in everything that you do on a daily basis. And AI has been around for a long time. I mean, they're using AI to. You know, Amazon uses it to give you product descriptions and Netflix uses it to give you, uh, viewing choices, uh, Facebook, LinkedIn. I mean, they've been using AI for a long time, but I think you'll start seeing it integrated into, uh, everything you're doing on a daily basis. Yeah. Back to the, you know, when you were talking about who the winners and losers, well, not the losers really, but who are the big winners and. Like I remember I, I went, it was just a couple of weeks ago and I was just looking at stocks. Like who are, who are the, the, you know, the winners, who to, who to maybe buy stock in. And, and the list was exactly you'd expect to be other than, other than NVIDIA, who's blown up on the hardware side. It was everyone that you'd expect. It's, it's Google, Alphabet, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple. Those were all who the AI winners basically are from a stock perspective. So no super, maybe a couple smaller companies that were, that the analysts I was reading weren't even all that confident in their stocks as far as a couple of the other comments, as far as content and from a marketing and communication standpoint, again, I think we're all just figuring it out, including me, like I've done a couple of blog posts that I admit it was a test completely AI generated. And a couple of those are number one in Google as we speak still and not under real long term, long tail for phrases. So, so far it's, it's even worked. I'm not relying on it staying number one or number two in Google, but right now it's still working. Um, I think aside from Google liking the content or not, just, you know, human readability, usability. We, you know, I think marketers and salespeople have to strike the right balance and I've been reinforcing it to our own team here all the time is that if you rely too heavily on having ChatGPT help you write an email or help you write a LinkedIn post, that is so glaringly obvious at this point. Uh, you see, I see LinkedIn posts filled with emojis that weren't up there six months ago, the little rocket ship in everybody's LinkedIn posts, Chad, DVD happens to like that particular emoji a lot. So I think again, the sales and marketing people who are using it to help them communicate. Definitely use it, use it sparingly and make sure you're putting your own human twist on it because it's, it's just becoming more obvious when you read something that Chad GPT wrote. Yeah. And I think, you know, some of the big concerns for, you know, our business and our clients and everybody is that, you know, if we're seeing it and noticing it as individuals. You know, the gatekeepers of the internet, you know, which is search at this point is that they're eventually going to do it too. And they're eventually going to, you know, discount straight. Yeah. I just, I'm not saying that's definitely going to happen, but I'm sure it will. You know, if you just look at historically what's happened, you know, Google and Microsoft, and, you know, maybe there's a new search engine that comes out out of this, uh, You know, their job is to give the best results. And I think it's only a matter of time before they start discounting AI generated only content, which is why I think there is going to be the role of an editor. Yeah. Uh, and I think there's, you know, going to be a huge role for the narrow language model, you know, where, where the, the large language model is chat GPT. And, and, uh, Bard and Bing where it's trained on everything and the narrow language model is like, we'll use us for an example is trained on everything that we've ever written or, or, or our videos and our podcasts and, and, uh, writing the blog posts, um, and we, and you train these AI tools to just kind of, you Look at all the stuff that we've done so that when we generate new stuff, it's doing it in the right tone, uh, that we've always exhibited. And I think that's going to be important. And a lot of people have that now. Uh, it's new still, but they're, they're rolling it out. And I think a couple of reasons why they roll it out as number one, for the obvious reasons that you, you want to generate whatever it is you're generating in your own tone and brand. But also the other reason is, uh, security, you know, if you're, you're using these tools for whatever it is, um, especially if you're trying to analyze data, internal data or customer data, you don't want any of that data to become part of a training, uh, data for these large language models. So you're really going to sandbox your own data in a secure space. And. These companies are rolling it out. They all have it now. Uh, even, you know, Jasper and Ryder has it where you can upload all your content, uh, and then, you know, have it right in a, in a specific tone, um, based on, on what you've done. So I think, you know, those are going to be the real uses of this, but I do think that, you know, on the search side on, on. You know how the search engines are providing us results. I think eventually they will discount straight Generate because they're gonna have to cut through it. There's gonna be too much content. So I think they'll either Discounted or the whole I really think the whole search experience is going to change because right now you do a search And you get the, you know, couple of ads and the blue links and you kind of go through one and one and one by one and decide what's the right answer. And I think what's going to happen now is, and I'll just use Google, for example, is. You know, they're going to digest the content of those 10 links and give you an aggregation of the best answer. So you may not be driving through to a website. You might just stop at Google, which will hurt search. You know, we'll hurt anybody who's doing, uh, you know, organic search. And, and I think it'll have an effect on. Unpaid search too. And I think that obviously that's, you know, Google's cash cow. So they'll figure out a way around it, but you know, where there's change, you know, that will impact companies. It also will create all new opportunities. You know, you think back to when we started, you know, Google didn't even exist and there was no paid search. So, you know, it wasn't even thought about in the beginning. So. You know, I think for back to one of your comments, you said earlier where, you know, people are afraid, I think you should be afraid, but only afraid in a way that makes you curious and want to explore what's out there, not bury your head in the sand and hope it goes away. Yeah. So, um, I think a lot, a lot is going to change and. You know, you know that right from the beginning of the year, I've been pushing the A. I. Agenda internally because I want everyone on our team to leverage it and to help deliver better results for our clients. Yeah. And that, you know, our clients do present. Some distinct challenges because of the industry we work in being healthcare and biopharma, I did, uh, I did a LinkedIn survey. I'm looking at my screen last week, um, where I asked, you know, what should healthcare and pharma marketers be most concerned about when it comes to AI? And. My three options were data privacy, ethical considerations, and transparency and trust. And although ethical considerations came on number one, they were really, were pretty evenly spread among the three. And so you mentioned, like you mentioned data privacy, and I think that You know, that is going to be a big concern in terms of your own business data. But obviously when you get into stuff like patients and trying to analyze their patterns and behaviors so that you can do more personalized marketing, we've got, you know, that's going to be a real serious consideration with regard to all this, but that's a serious consideration with regard to all technology when it comes to things like patient data. So it's really, I guess it's really no different. Um, Are there, are there a couple of tools in particular that you, you know, that you use on a regular basis more than others? I think we, we kind of touched on it. It, I don't think I'm using any pure, uh, AI tools. Um, I'm using chat, G P t I use Bard. Uh, I use tools that have, that are, are AI enabled? Yeah. Um, I'm using. Copilot in GitHub. I use clay. com is a is a really good data enrichment, um, sales data enrichment platform that has a not just AI, but they have. A whole bunch of other, uh, enrichments, um, that are really good. Uh, so I use that. I use Apollo, you know, we use Apollo, um, trying to think what else I use make. com that has. But it's not really AI enabled, but I'm using AI to help me do some of these automations. Um, so because I'm not, you know, I'm, I don't have a, you know, production role where I'm delivering anything to our clients. I'm, I'm helping to run the business. So I'm touching a variety of different things. So I'm not in one tool all day like mid journey. I played with mid journey. I got it set up You know, I use it once in a while, but I'm just it's not something I'm using on the image You know creation side. I'm not I don't do a lot of writing Yeah, so while I've tested some of these writing platforms You know, I'm not using it on a daily basis. I think I'm using a lot of different tools that have, that are AI enabled. Um, or using AI to help me leverage the tool a little bit better in the learning process. And that's how, um, you know, I think, tell me if you agree with this, like in my mind, as I look at where individuals, not big company and IT departments, Not all that that's a different discussion but individuals Especially in, in, on marketing teams and how they should think about this. To me, it's kind of bifurcated into two categories. It's the big picture, almost enterprise level tools that you should be leveraging that are AI powered. And those are the things that are going to do a lot of the things that you hear about, like analyzing. Big data and vast volumes of data to allow you to personalize your marketing much more targeted. And like you're an individual in the marketing department isn't going to write that script and isn't going to generate the tool that analyzes big data enterprise software tools that are AI enabled will do that. So there's, there's continuing to explore those tools. But also, a lot of stuff like we're talking about here today is the tools that are the actual things that a user like you and I, more probably like me, who's more of a marketer, who's not all that technical, you know, and then, you know, leveraging those tools that are just available to someone like me. I mean, you agree with that, that that's kind of, A fair bifurcation of, of how this is all looking. Yeah. And, and, you know, but I think the, the other part is that I just, I think it's, you just have to think of it differently. Um, you just have to think, you know, I kind of, I think you have to think about whatever you're doing on a daily basis. Whether you're using QuickBooks, you're in accounting or you're using, um, you're a writer and you, you're, you're in Word all day or you're in Excel all day or Google sheets or whatever, whatever program you're using, like whatever you're doing on a daily basis, you should always be thinking about how can I leverage some of this stuff that exists to do a better job? Yeah. You know, if you're a writer all day, You should be leveraging a tool like Jasper or Writer that has this stuff already built in, instead of bouncing between Word and, and chat GPD. You should be in a platform where it's automatic, where it's happening all day. If you're a developer, You should be using Copilot or Amazon, I think theirs is called Whisper, you know, that writes the code for you, or you know, or helps you or gives you hints, like it should just, it shouldn't be jumping from the platform you live in into Chat GPT or barred. It should be integrated. And if whatever you're using on a daily basis now doesn't have an integration, there's probably an alternative that does. That's probably better than what you're using. And, uh, you should probably test it and you should think about every task you do. And say, is there a way I can do this, uh, more efficiently and, uh, you know, and provide better results. Yeah. And I think if you, if people think like that, then the answer will be yes. You know, it's not going to do, it's not like you're going to turn on your computer and go play golf all day and come back and the job's going to be done for you. That's not going to happen, but you can get incremental gains throughout the day in everything that you do. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I have two 20 something children who are both knowledge workers, uh, and I can't stress to them enough the same things I'm saying to you and to our audience and to the people who work for us, that if you're not leveraging this stuff, if you're not leveraging these tools and learning how to use it, it would be like. You know, coming out of college right now and not knowing how to use a browser or not knowing how to use Word or Excel or, or, um, email, you know, and I think I said it earlier, but I'll, I'll say it again differently. I don't think AI is going to take your job, but what I do think will happen is somebody who's leveraging AI more than you are. And I think that's the truth. And, uh, but I think there's also going to be a lot of new opportunities that haven't existed in the past that are going to exist, uh, in the future because of this. So, you know, let's close with, if you look at the things we do for clients here, and I know, again, you're not an expert in any individual of those things, you're running the company, but you do know a lot about. So if you were a fortune teller and you were looking in your crystal ball right now with regard to AI, what are a couple of the things that we do for our clients? That's everything from building websites, to creating content, to managing paid ads, SEO, creative, you know, are there a couple of things that. If you were to predict, you see it significantly changing how those things are done, if we were to look ahead a year or two from right now. Oh, I mean, I'll start with strategy. I think, I think strategically for ideation, um, I think that's, that's the first piece. I think we could probably generate, uh, way more, uh, ideas, better ideas. Um, I think, uh, you know, data analytics, I think, analyzing campaigns, uh, in paid. Um, I think it can help in, in, uh, social media marketing. I think you with, with analyzing, uh, tone and sentiment, um, you know, I really think search is going to get completely disrupted and I think we, we're going to need to be You know, right in the mix on understanding how it's changing and how we can leverage the change to our clients advantage. I think in development, you know, we do a lot of development. I think it's going to help us. Um, you know, deliver faster with less defects because I think it'll, it'll help us with cleaner code. It'll help us with testing code. Um, I think communication with our clients, I think there's a lot of, a lot of ways that we can leverage, um, you know, analyzing, uh, met inbound messaging from our clients, um, to help, you know, route the right way and deliver better responses. I think, uh, one thing we didn't really touch on much that I think is going to be huge is personalization, you know, I really think that, you know, with regard to, um, you know, visiting a website, I think the experience is going to be dramatically different in a couple of years than it is now, and I think it's all going to hinge on personalization and not prescribed personalization, the way you can, we can personalize now by, you. You know, pre defining personas and then trying to identify you on arrival and then pushing you through a path. I think it'll all be done on the fly. I think there'll be data aggregators out there that will, um, you know, provide the insight that we can plug into so that when you come to a site, we may not know that you're billed Atlas, but we'll know a lot about you and be able to deliver a custom experience, not prescribed. You know, not have, um, you know, five different avenues and, but literally having a different experience for every visitor. I think that will happen. Um, and we'll, we'll be able to help deploy that. Uh, I think that. You'll see an impact with a lot of these, uh, uh, no code, low code, low code tools that are coming out now, because I think the people that are developing them are going to be able to leverage some of this technology to develop at a much higher rate and, uh, get products to market much quicker with much less people and much less investment. And I think we'll be able to leverage that for our clients. Uh, what else? Well, you touched upon it earlier a couple, in a couple of ways, and I did a video on LinkedIn on it earlier today, but I think definitely the use of chatbots and virtual assistants, um, you know, becoming normal on websites. Yeah, I think, I think that as all these platforms get AI integrated, A lot of your experience where a lot of it now is menu driven, even in applications that we use, you know, like Word or Excel, it's file and the menuing system that we're used to mm-hmm. to navigate. Same thing with websites. We're used to the menuing, uh, to get around and to try to find the information. And I think it's gonna move to where you're interacting with a chat bot and the chat bot is gonna give you the answers. Right. You know, there may. In the future, you know, you may, a website may only be a homepage with a chatbot and there may not be any underlying content that exists, um, in the traditional way that we know it right now, it may be in a database somewhere, it may be stored, but you may be, you know, have pages or experiences, um, displayed to you that are, you know, Not prebuilt that are built on the fly. So I think, uh, I think that is going to happen. And, um, you know, I think we're gonna interact totally in a different way than we are now, um, you know, now we're still browsing and where most people are going to chat GPT, but it's all going to be integrated into everything that we do. That's, that's what I see. Yeah, I mean, bottom line is we all know it's going to continue to permeate more of our lives and our businesses. None of us know exactly how, um, I don't think we know how in three months, six months, a year, let alone five years. So with that. You know, we all just need to keep learning and evolving. Uh, and I think along those lines, I think you and I should try to do this exact conversation every three or six months, because I think that's how much things will change and how rapidly, um, So, so I think, yeah, and you know, I think to that point, you know, when I went to this conference a couple of weeks ago, I think the point that nobody there is nobody that's saying this is what it's going to be. It is literally the beginning of, you know, the wild west or the gold rush or. Whatever you want to call it. It's literally nobody has any idea where it's going to go. Um, people have theories just like I have theories. Uh, and I'm no expert. I can only tell you. You know, I'm getting the information from the people who are getting the information from other people. So I don't, I don't know. I'm just, you know, based on our experience and seeing how things have happened in with other technology and other advancements, I'm just, you know, making my own predictions. But what I would say is I really look at this as more of an opportunity than anything else. And I think that. If people have the attitude of You know, this is a huge opportunity and not opportunity to go do something else but an opportunity to Leverage this in whatever business you're in now or whatever it is you're doing or whatever role you're in I think that's the way to go and that's the right attitude versus you know having an attitude of You know, doomsday or, you know, AI is going to take over the world, like, you know, Terminator. I just, I think, you know, that could happen too. And we've all seen the reports of, you know, hacking and, you know, it's going to, it's going to allow for, you know, more bad players, you know, which all technology does, any advance in technology. Allows for bad camp. So, uh, but that's going to create opportunity for the people that are fighting that. So it's just always going to be opportunity. And I think that we're in a great time. And like I said at the beginning. You know, I mentally probably had one foot on the beach and now I'm feel like I'm reinvigorated for the last part of my career, which, you know, a little bit older than I was 27, 28 years ago. It is the next industrial revolution. I mean, Bill Gates, Bill Gates said, this is the biggest thing compared to when he first saw a graphical user interface. And so he skipped over the internet. In, in, in, in that list. So, um, it is, it's, it is the next industrial revolution. So with that, um, great chat. And like I said, I think we should do this on either an every three month or a six month basis, because things are certainly going to be changing that rapidly. So, well, and I think it'll be funny. Maybe we, you know, splice in some clips for things that we said that we were totally wrong on or. We were totally right on true because, you know, you have, we have no idea. Um, but you know, it's an, it's an exciting time. All right, Brett, thanks for the chat. We'll talk soon. All right.