From Newbie to Expert: Essential Chicken Keeping Tips and Strategies Part 2

Ready to enhance your knowledge about poultry keeping? This episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast promises to equip you with practical tips and valuable insights. We're talking about line breeding, the spiral clan mating system, and the importance of selecting the right birds. Our focus is on the essentials of breeding and incubation, with an emphasis on ethical considerations when dealing with birds that don't make the cut.

We share firsthand experiences with space needs, housing scenarios, and catch methods for both commercial hybrid birds and dual-purpose standard-bred birds. As we navigate through the complexities of flock care, we also delve into nutrition. How do you know if your feed has the right vitamins and minerals? What's the difference between a layer ration and a breeder ration? We uncover these and more, including tips on extending the shelf life of feed and the benefits of a coarse mash for chickens. So whether you're an amateur poultry keeper or you're already into commercial breeding, this episode is sure to pique your interest. Tune in now!

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Transcript

Breeding and Incubation Considerations

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Poultry Keepers podcast. I'm Mandelyn Royle and I'm here together with Rip Stalvey and John Gunterman, and we're your co-host for this show and it's our mission to help you have happy, healthy and a productive flock. I wish I would have known what it meant to really breed, because historically I've had matched a lot of eggs but I wasn't really breeding, I was just putting fertile eggs in an incubator and to me now that's a different distinction of what breeding means. So as soon as we got to this property and I'm looking at the space available and I was looking at this beat-up, tore-up, fallen-down barn and we decided you know what, let's make that the chicken coop.

Speaker 1 0:48

If it falls in on birds they'll probably survive, but we can't use it for storing expensive equipment, we can't use it for large animals. So we started working on this barn and converting it and the first thing I did was go and order enough different breeds to put a different breed in each pen. And turns out that's not how you breed, it's just how you get hatching eggs. And once I started seeing what it really took, what it really meant, what was really required, I started systematically dropping off the other breeds that I didn't like as much as some others. Well, I really did drop us down to one single variety, which got a little boring. So I have side science projects going on, but had I known then would I know now.

Speaker 2 1:35

You got down to one variety of one breed, or one breed. One breed, one variety.

Speaker 1 1:40

Okay, okay, same color.

Speaker 3 1:43

Because you haven't gotten any of the splash breasts yet.

Speaker 2 1:46

I started out with three trios and I built it up to what it was, but I am convinced, based on what I learned from my mentor and what I experienced in myself, that if you line breed three trios properly, you can go on forever and ever, and ever and ever without having to use the outcross word yes.

Speaker 1 2:09

That's what I've heard and I've been putting it into practice and so far it's true.

Speaker 3 2:13

A lot of folks refer to it as the spiral clan mating system where basically you have a core group of females and you rotate your males. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 2:23

The clincher to that, though, is your selection.

Speaker 2 2:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:26

Well, that selection is always.

Speaker 2 2:27

Well, that selection is always. You're vitally important, no matter whether you have three trios or 300 trios. If you're not selecting your birds right, if you're not mating them right, if you're not used compensation mating, you're just spinning your wheel.

Speaker 3 2:43

You're a multiplier, not a breeder? Yes, if you're not selecting you're a multiplier.

Speaker 2 2:47

Exactly so. We've talked about breeding. What about grow out space?

Speaker 1 2:52

The rule I've been following the last three years is 30% of my space is for adults and 70% is for grow outs.

Speaker 2 3:01

That's about right. I think the field right and that's something.

Speaker 1 3:04

It's given me what I need to see at the rate of occurrence I need to see it. So so far, I'm going to say that it works.

Speaker 2 3:10

I think that new people starting out underestimate how much grow out space it's going to take.

Speaker 1 3:18

Well, I sure, as heck did, I didn't even think about grow out space.

Speaker 2 3:24

And when we first get started, collie Bum, we get all those fertile eggs and they just seem to be magically drawn to the incubator. We never consider eating one. But you can certainly hatch too many. You can hatch yourself into a major, major space problem. See around here, I've got a stale window that I try to hit.

Speaker 3 3:44

Everybody wants to have either newly hatched chicks right at the beginning of April or point of lay pullets at the beginning of April. That's when spring happens. Here in Vermont, where people start thinking about spring. We can sometimes see the ground again by then.

Speaker 1 4:00

Well, on the most valuable ones, are there ones getting ready to lay? No one hardly has that in the spring.

Speaker 3 4:06

So if I'm hatching out January, february, march and brooding out in the high tunnel all the while I'm doing my selections, who's going and then everybody goes and who stays is the champions that have a shot at moving up to the big house.

Speaker 2 4:23

Another thing that I know I didn't plan for and, Mandy, I think you've done a really good job with it, and John, I know you have too and I've taken mine up multiple notches since then but I didn't plan for adequate incubation space.

Speaker 1 4:39

I went overboard.

Speaker 3 4:41

I thought by doubling what I thought I needed I'd be good. And it's actually quadrupling Because even setting, if I set, 100 eggs at a 75 to 80% fertility rate, we're already down to 75. That's some simple math, let's say. And then hatchability and survivability. You know that 100 eggs that I set we're probably going to have in the mid-50s, low-60s for viable chicks that are two to three weeks old.

Speaker 1 5:12

If I account for how many I know I'm probably going to call out as non-viable breeding stock for every 100 eggs I set. I'm lucky to come back with five birds to keep forever.

Speaker 3 5:25

That's about the numbers. If I'm doing 10% keeper for breeding, that's great. That's a lot of numbers in my opinion, but that takes 100 chicks to hatch out. You know, maybe 10 that are worth keeping.

Speaker 2 5:38

That gets expensive. It requires a lot of infrastructure. You've got to feed them. You've got to water them.

Speaker 3 5:41

you've got to house them and then you have to ethically dispose of everything that you're not keeping, which is where I'm trying to hit my sales window in early spring. You know I have a pretty scientific approach to you know who I select at that point, even just straight run, I choose the center of my hatch window. Everything on either end is automatically considered out of breeding contention, so they can go. There may be fantastic birds in there, but they weren't in the middle of my hatch window and I'm breeding for heterogeneity amongst the flock.

Speaker 2 6:12

You know, and we're talking about considering incubation, we're talking about artificial incubation or using incubators. If you opt to go with the broody hand situation, to do it right you're going to have to have even more infrastructure, because each hen ideally should have her own coop to hatch and brood up until at least two weeks. A bunch of chicks and if you're having a yeah with the rate of error that a broody has.

Speaker 1 6:41

They do perform the best in their own space. If you keep them in the communal flock she might change nests and what she was working on hatching got abandoned and too cold, or other hens will try to lay over top of her and smash eggs. Ideally, a broody should be in her own space and if I was going to rely on broodies to hatch us into the quantity I like to have annually, I would need an entire other barn of girls working on chick-making.

Speaker 3 7:12

Yeah, and that's a natural process. Some breeds. You can induce them to be broody. But right now I've got a hen laying on some eggs and we're in October 26th, and I've got another hen that just hatched out. She went broody and I collected all her eggs so I gave her back some eggs and she hatched them out and they're about three weeks old and we're October 26th. They decide they want to be broody in October here. But, it seems like.

Speaker 2 7:40

No, I was just going to say seems like for me I never had a broody hen when I needed a broody hen.

Speaker 1 7:46

That's been the same for me Whenever. Iso, my favorite kind of broody and I've not met very many of them, but my favorites areif I introduce the sound of peeping chicks. She's ready to go. She doesn't even have to set the eggs to take the chicks. And then it doesn't happen very often, but when you find one like that.

Speaker 3 8:04

There's a few in between.

Speaker 1 8:05

That's my favorite.

Speaker 3 8:07

But that's also a critical component. There's been some breeds which the broody tendency has just been bred out of them. So I don't consider them self-sustaining or self-sufficient because they won't reproduce on their own. They require some level of human intervention in the incubation process.

Speaker 1 8:25

So so the breed I have is considered non-setting and I've seen three birdies in seven years.

Speaker 3 8:34

So they're gold.

Speaker 1 8:35

So two of them are really good and one of them was bad at it. But I always give them the benefit of the doubt by setting her up in her own space, seeing if she sticks to the eggs, seeing what kind of mother she is and if she makes it to about five to six weeks with them, because some of them quit too soon.

Speaker 1 8:51

They still need a little bit of heat at two weeks and I've had broodies abandon them right when they still needed her, so I prefer that they stick with it all the way through to about five, six weeks old.

Speaker 3 9:04

Some people keep a silky around. Just for that I say they're setting machines.

Speaker 1 9:08

Oh yeah, the silkies can be one of the breeds where, if they even hear the peep, they'll take the babies.

Speaker 2 9:13

I never. You were talking about the broody abandoning and her chicks. I never had much of any problem with that, as long as I had them individually housed. In other words, they had their own area. Where I seemed to run into more issues than that where I had multiple broodies in one area.

Speaker 1 9:32

I've had some that were bad at it and I don't know if they were trying to help the chicks and then got distracted, but they were killing them as they hatched.

Speaker 3 9:40

I had a hen. I gave her a bunch of eggs because she decided she wanted to be broody and I had some extras. I'm like let's give them to her as they were hatching. There was a mixture of Chanticleer and Buckeye eggs that I gave her and she was killing all the Buckeye chicks Soon. As she saw, it wasn't a white chick, it was out.

Speaker 1 9:58

That's weird.

Speaker 3 9:59

Yeah, yeah. So she didn't survive much longer after that.

Speaker 2 10:05

Let's talk about flock care and especially the difference between caring for commercial hybrid birds as opposed to the dual purpose standard bred birds that so many of us work with. Maddie, you touched on this and I think you probably had as much experience recently as any of us, but tell us about what you found about space needs between commercial birds and standard bred birds.

Speaker 1 10:35

So when we were doing commercial meat type birds they were lower in their requirements, mostly because they were lazier, they didn't have that drive to get up and go and do all the chicken things and we were able to have more of a condensed footprint with them.

Speaker 1 10:53

But when we got into the larger birds that had that desire to go range, we had to change a lot. So our tractor design when we do pasture tractors they're a walk in height so I can get in there with them and that matters more for catch day, if that makes sense, like if you know you're going to eat these males and you put the males off into a tractor and you cruise them around for another 10 weeks to get them up to like 16 weeks older. So when you go in there to catch them those birds have wings and they're going to use them, versus the commercial types that'll just kind of run as far as they can and then you can just snatch them pretty easy. So I'm not sure how those lower the ground tractors would work for the bigger birds that can fly. But I just foresee like when you open up the top of that lid they're just going to fly up, and maybe it's my experience with quail showing.

Speaker 2 11:49

And then they're everywhere.

Speaker 1 11:50

And then they're everywhere and it turns into an entire day of trying to catch all these birds and hopefully you weren't trying to process on the same day.

Speaker 1 11:59

A walk in height really made a big difference, and all my pens are walk in height because I don't want to stoop, I don't want to crawl, I'm not chasing them while I'm on my knees. The ease of care was a lot easier when I could actually get in with the birds and every housing scenario, with the exception of brooders. I like those to be like waist height, chest height, so I can pop right in. They're right in front of my face. I can see them smaller the bird, if they're down at floor level. How often do you want to be on the ground trying to catch them?

Speaker 2 12:34

And I gave up crawling around a long time ago. Yeah, doesn't work well for me.

Speaker 3 12:38

The pens that I like, have you know it's two by four, or, excuse me, two two by two, and eight feet long and they have a hinged lid so I can set food and water in or out, but it also has a door at the end. I can let them out to day range or on collection day. I can just put a catch pen on the other side of that door and they'll just walk down into the box at the other end and then I close the door on them.

Speaker 1 13:03

Years are long and skinny to make that a viable catch method.

Speaker 3 13:08

Yeah, it's two feet tall, two feet wide and eight feet long.

Speaker 1 13:13

That's a good consideration.

Speaker 3 13:14

But I also from raising quail, and they're actually a little too tall for quail. They're in the death zone. You can have less than 12 inches of head height or more than four feet of head height, because when they take off they take off with such velocity that anything between one foot and four or five feet they get enough velocity to hit the roof and kill themselves by breaking their neck.

Speaker 2 13:36

And I haven't experienced that.

Speaker 3 13:37

And large follow can do the same thing. So that's a consideration. You don't want them. You either need full height or reduced height, and the in between is kind of a danger zone.

Speaker 2 13:48

I find that, comparing modern hybrid birds to my standard bred birds, the standard bred birds can flat out run one of those junkie.

Speaker 3 14:03

And they know how to use their wings for extra momentum while they're running Really cute, oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 14:08

But I try to allow more space for standard bred birds than is recommended for the commercial hybrid. They require a lot less space. The other thing that I see a difference in is feed requirements for commercial birds versus standard bred birds, and one thing that I want to encourage folks to do is to make sure that you're feeding an age appropriate diet for your birds. You know, like we always like to say, make sure you're giving them grit too. I like to do starter up until they are about eight weeks old. Then I'll transition them over to grower and keep my birds on the grower ration until they start laying eggs and at that point I'll switch them over to a layer of me.

Speaker 3 14:55

It saves money. I like you're not overfeeding or underfeeding.

Speaker 2 15:00

But I'd say standard bred birds need more, slightly more protein than the modern hybrid.

Speaker 1 15:11

Well, they were made.

Speaker 2 15:12

They were designed when we had a lot more off all in meat protein products in our feed than we do now, and they're missing some of those critical components that are only available from a meat type protein Standard bred birds need less protein to do what they do, but it seems like they require more feed in the end to get to that harvest weight or to get them into egg production and to maintain that egg production Just a little bit more, it seems like, than standard bred birds do. And those are some of the things you got to take into account. Now, on my ChickStarter, I use a 22% ChickStarter, no-transcript and it has a good bit of fish meal in it and I get phenomenal rates of growth and development. After that, when I transition over to a grower, I drop the protein content back down to about 18% and that'll take them all the way through. It'll grow the frame, the fleshing, the feathers, perfect. When they start laying. Then I'll drop it back to a 16% to 18% layer, probably closer to 16%.

Speaker 2 16:25

But the key to those feeds is really the key to any poultry feed. You've got to have good levels of amino acid and honestly, that is so lacking in many of the feeds on the market today. The big brand name feeds are lacking in amino acids and the bargain basement price feeds are lacking big time in amino acids. There's not nearly enough amino acids in there. I like to shoot for a level of about 1% lysine and about 0.5% mycyne and as long as you can get real close to that, you're going to have the best developing birds on the block, and those are amino acids that are only available from a meat type protein, so we can turn to fish meal for that, if you source a good, high quality.

Speaker 2 17:15

It's very difficult to get good amino acid levels on an all vegetable diet.

Speaker 3 17:21

Well, there's no such thing as a vegetarian chicken.

Speaker 1 17:24

We've been down that Well, I've seen a meat you just can't do it.

Speaker 3 17:28

That's a sick chicken. They need this stuff.

Speaker 1 17:33

If they don't get it, they're going to start getting it from each other.

Speaker 3 17:35

They're going to cannibalize each other, and that's never a good.

Speaker 1 17:37

Yeah, that's a problem.

Speaker 3 17:38

That's never a good thing.

Speaker 2 17:40

We talked about the different feed requirements for the different ages. One thing that and we just kind of touched on it real quick. John mentioned managing the molt and what you do when you manage a molt. Most folks think you're just trying to get them to regrow feathers. Well, that's part of it.

Speaker 1 18:01

That's like the last stage of molt Okay, we're done with molting.

Speaker 3 18:05

Now we can repub.

Speaker 2 18:07

I like to get my females as close as I can get them. They don't always do it, but if I can get them down to what they should be, what their weight was supposed to be when they were one year old, if I can drop them down, I get much better egg production and I get much better fertility out of those females in years two, three. Well, you're shedding that internal fat, you're clearing up body cavity space, as my grandfather would have said, like to get them down to their fighting weight.

Speaker 3 18:37

Well, that's why they have the, the pull-it-weights listed and the hand-weights listed in the and it doesn't take During the molt.

Speaker 2 18:46

It doesn't take a high protein level to feed, but it does take good levels of amino acids and there's a really good video that we did live stream on that on Poultry Keepers 360 on our YouTube channel. I think it's called Don't Fear the Mote Managing, and Jeff Maddox goes into great detail on how to do that in that video.

Speaker 3 19:09

So I would highly encourage you to refer to it, and then we you also need to talk about. So one of the stages of growth that, since we're going to be breeding them, is bringing the nutrition up to appropriate breeder levels, because building an egg for hatching is very, very different than just building an egg for eating.

Speaker 1 19:30

I'm pretty well convinced at this point that a 16% layer ration is not for breeding hatching.

Speaker 3 19:38

That's for table eggs. You're giving them the bare minimum they need to put out an egg. I think you're actually depriving them.

Speaker 1 19:45

I'm talking about the breeder hens, I prefer ours to be on a 20% during hatch season.

Speaker 2 19:51

Yeah, and again, you've got to have those increased levels of amino acids and you've got to have for good breeder ration. You've got to have higher levels of vitamins and minerals.

Speaker 3 20:03

I started mixing my own because I can't trust what's out there in the bags on the shelves anymore.

Speaker 2 20:08

I agree with you. I'm fortunate enough to have access to a feed that Jeff Maddox formulated.

Speaker 3 20:16

It's good stuff. Yeah, it looks better than my breakfast Difference between Probably smells about.

Speaker 2 20:22

Smells good enough to eat, but you can really tell the difference between a feed with optimal levels of vitamins and minerals and amino acids and proteins and fats and all this other stuff. Big difference between the stuff you get in the store. Part of the problem with the stuff you get in the store has been manufactured so long that it had nowhere close to print.

Speaker 3 20:44

I figure out what can I feed in 30 days, and that's how much I mix.

Speaker 1 20:49

Yeah Well, and one thing that's different now with the bagged commercial feeds is some brands. They did start removing the used by dates and they are allowing for a one year shelf life of the bag feeds.

Speaker 1 21:02

But, my feed guide from our local mill. I asked him because there was a season there where I was having problems with vitamin deficiencies and I had hoarded up on feed that was pre-manufactured and I stored it for probably three or four months and after the tail end of that was when I started running into some problems that were new and I figured it had to be a feed. So I went to have a heart-to-heart discussion with him about shelf life and he said from the very moment it is milled, the very moment it becomes a crumble, the very moment it gets cracked, you're on borrowed time. From that point on, and in the summertime you can expect 30 days, in the wintertime you can expect three months. Outside of that, the vitamins and the nutrients start degrading. It's the first thing that breaks down is the actual nutrients.

Speaker 2 21:53

The last time I bought a bag of feed a national brand bag of feed I manned that point got driven home. It was one that still had the manufactured date on it and that feed was seven months old. And you don't know how it's been stored, if it's stored in a hot, humid condition it's hot and humid. You can kiss the nutritional levels of that feed, but whole grains can store for years until they're cracked.

Speaker 3 22:22

And all my feed now even my smallest, like new hatched quail. Their grain is not ground. I'll run it through the cracker once just to break it for the new hatchlings, but they don't need a powder. There's many scientific studies out there that show the benefits of a large particle size in the way that it scrapes the biliy in the intestines, and filling the gizzard with a coarse material and grit is very beneficial, even on day one.

Speaker 2 22:54

Well, it goes back to me of what Jeff Maddox says about mash, and he prefers a good, coarse mash. He said you should be able to identify what's in that feed. You should be able to identify corn, you should be able to identify the pieces of soybean, you should be able to identify wheat and oats. But when it gets ground up into all this powder, I can't tell what it is. And they will. They will tend to pick.

Speaker 3 23:17

They'll go for the corn first and then I will watch what they go after. In my case they go for corn and then barley, in that order, and in the process they pick up all the other stuff. That's with it.

Speaker 2 23:29

Now, even with that coarse ground mash, okay, there's still going to be some fines in there, because that's going to be your vitamins and minerals, and if they've added amino, acid.

Speaker 3 23:38

it'll be your fish meal, All the meal that go into a mash.

Speaker 2 23:43

But you know, chickens naturally go for the big pieces first, just like a kid in a candy store.

Speaker 3 23:49

Well see, that's an important thing is no matter where you are in the country, you're going to need to import a component of your feed If you're going to make your own feed. Nobody lives anywhere where they have everything they need like right down the road, so you're going to have to ship some component in. But for the most part, you can definitely make yourself a balanced ration, and there's a couple of. There's the poultry nutrition Facebook group that Jeff Maddox hosts with all sorts of awesome free advice. You know. Jump on there, ask your questions, say this is where I live, these are the grains that I have available. What? What can I, you know, make a quality feed?

Speaker 1 24:30

I haven't yet adventured into that rabbit hole formulating our own feed. I'm still relying on what would be considered bags commercial crumbles. But I am top dressing with the for trail supplement and I got to say there was some big changes. Yes, and just their demeanor, how they behave, the gloss to their feathers. I know they're just boring white birds, but there's a sheen to them that they didn't have before. And now that we've been feeding that supplement for almost a year, I think we're about nine months into using it and I've seen nothing but positive results. So I'm definitely going to start ordering the big bag.

Speaker 3 25:08

It's just like taking a multivitamin as a child. The Flintstones chewable, I mean you're feeding them. Oh no, that's not the worst one, I know, but you don't know the idea that you know. The very first thing Better quality vitamins. I'm sure there's better, but the analogy is there. When I look at what I spend on supplements for us. Very first thing they do.

Speaker 1 25:29

Oh yeah, prenatal vitamins. Prenatal vitamins.

Speaker 3 25:31

And that's when you need to be start thinking about your chick nutrition is when the egg is being made.

Speaker 1 25:36

That's where I'll supplement for hatch season. That's like their prenatal high it is.

Speaker 2 25:40

Absolutely yes. Well, you know, what really got me on the well, Jeff, is what got me on the nutritional bandwagon. But what really was a gigantic eye opener for me was when I started using that fur trail showbird and breeder supplement and I had a group of young barred rocks at the time and they were not. They weren't wild by nature, they were not people friendly. When I would come up they would just kind of go the other way. Well, after I added that for a trail showbird and breeder supplement to the crumble that I was using, in about three days they had totally brand new, yeah three days.

Speaker 1 26:25

Three days there was a change in demeanor because it's like what? Four weeks for nutritional changes to really be more apparent about about 30 yeah they calmed right before that.

Speaker 2 26:36

You know, like I said, they were much calmer they. They would even come up to me and I thought whoa. And Then, at about 30 days, when I would handle them, I thought my gosh, these birds have all of a sudden gotten meteor than what I'm used to. And I was talking to Jeff about the changes I saw. One time he said yeah, that's about right. He said the added B vitamins in In that showbird and breeder supplement is what calms them down. Yeah, and he said the added nutrition. They added amino acid to fish meal. The higher bottom is the mineral content. That's what puts the flesh in on. He said now wait till they mold out and get your adult plumage.

Speaker 1 27:17

He was right.

Speaker 2 27:17

Yeah, good grief, charlie Brown.

Speaker 1 27:20

I had no idea how much I was missing by feeding no sheep. I didn't either.

Speaker 3 27:25

I didn't it's all 16% layer and it's all the same, I'm gonna buy the least expensive. See, that's where.

Speaker 2 27:32

I had.

Speaker 3 27:32

That's, that's the trap. And oh, if you buy it by the palette or half palette, you can save an extra dollar per bag. That's another huge trap. Now You've got a year's worth of feed that well, now that we know that it goes stale in 30 days, why would you do that?

Speaker 1 27:48

Yeah. See I had always, you're gonna get back in problems sometimes I.

Speaker 2 27:54

Had always trusted the feed manufacturers. See, I always thought well, they have the best interest of my birds at heart.

Speaker 3 28:02

No, they got the bottom line, not Eva close.

Speaker 2 28:06

They got the dollar in mind.

Speaker 1 28:07

They got the bottom line, like you said y'all and the more products or byproducts that they can use as filler.

Speaker 3 28:14

Yep. Well, they don't have to change the label and the market availability. If it says grain byproduct, they can use anything. That's the currently the cheapest on the market.

Speaker 2 28:23

Yes, yes, I get a lot of folks Emailing me and wanting to know about their feed. What do I think? And the first thing I'll do is this will send me a feed tag. Send me, send me a photo of the feed tag. And the first Things I look at as I don't even look at proteins, I don't look at fats, I don't look at Vibers I go to amino acids and Fairly there at least half of what they should be for optimum bird growth. And then you get into vitamins and minerals. They're not there and they usually have. I mean, they're showed them on the feed tag, but the levels are not right.

Speaker 2 28:59

They're usually running their calcium at, you know, 3.8 up to 4.2 percent, because it's the least expensive thing to get their bag weighed up calcium is too high, fat is usually too low and proteins kind of iffy, and and it's more about the type and the quality of protein you use than it is that actual 16 or 18 percent number. You know, that's Just a lot of fluff.

Speaker 3 29:23

Well, do your not you gotta do your research. I mean, we're talking about a level of care that your average person isn't Really up for. Yet.

Speaker 2 29:33

Well, the bottom line what goes into your birds?

Speaker 3 29:37

I'm gonna make a big difference in the I tracked my costs very closely and very closely, and it wasn't till I actually Started investing in the best diet that I could for them that I started saving money on their feed costs. They just, you know, give them better feed, they're gonna consume less and they're gonna be healthier, you know, happier, more productive birds and grit always and forever. I Want to. I want to see if I can get at that tattooed on here always and forever.

Speaker 2 30:05

So to match my genetics, one over on this arm. I need grit in my crawls.

Speaker 1 30:10

So when I was a kid, I didn't have a Coop. I had a converted rabbit hutch and I had more birds than what would fit and I started adding these little Apartments and doing some junior construction projects. But those birds were free range all day, every day, all year round. If I lost some to a hawk or fox, it happened. I just hatched more. But their diet was Scratch grains and free range. I didn't have layer feed like we. Just I didn't know anything.

Speaker 1 30:39

This is like 1980s. My parents didn't care. I said she wants chickens, let her have chickens. So they would take me to the feed mill, would get scratch grains, but there wasn't any layer feed, there wasn't any grower starter, it was bare minimum. Go find it for yourself. But my hatchery was 100%, was easy. And Then when I got out on my own, I had my own birds and I was splitting the bill for myself and I'm feeding them the layer feed and they didn't have free range. The hatch rates plummeted, plummeted. So I've been on this like pursuit to recreate a free range diet, to get back to the benefits that came from that, and that's about impossible but very hard driving around picking up roadkill and throwing at your birds.

Speaker 1 31:26

Well, I mean, deer hunting season is about to be here it is a carcass or the red cage and.

Speaker 3 31:31

I know a lot of folks are Turning to black fly soldier larva farming, that you can do it on a very small scale and it's supposed to be a great protein and vitamin source.

Speaker 1 31:44

That's what they say, and I'm thinking about bug farming now. But lately I've just been opening up run doors into the apple orchard and letting them go find well.

Speaker 3 31:53

If you need to get rid of that old stale feed and your manure, that's a great use for it, as well as composting.

Speaker 1 32:00

Yeah, I guess the black soldier mealworms to you. I think they do awful green Mm-hmm the same thing you feed your chickens.

Speaker 3 32:07

It's just once removed. So feed that starts getting old, especially if it's moldy or gets any funk in it whatsoever.

Speaker 1 32:14

Don't give it to your birds throw it in your compost, give it to the worm bin if you need to. Yeah.

Speaker 3 32:19

I converted to bugfish and then the birds will eat the bugs and Everybody will stay happy and healthy.

Speaker 2 32:26

Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, make sure you subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they're released and they're released every Tuesday. And if you're enjoying this podcast, we'd like to ask you to drop us an email at poultry keepers podcast at gmailcom, and share your thoughts about the show. So thank you again for joining us for this episode of the poultry keepers podcast. We'll see you next week.