In this podcast episode Jeff Mattocks, John Gunterman, and Rip Stalvey walk listeners through the process of how you can help your flock deal with the hot summer temperatures.
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In this podcast episode Jeff Mattocks, John Gunterman, and Rip Stalvey walk listeners through the process of how you can help your flock deal with the hot summer temperatures.
You can email us at - poultrykeeperspodcast@gmail.com
Join our Facebook Groups:
Poultry Keepers Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/907679597724837
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Check out the Poultry Kepers Podcast YouTube Channel -
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Hi, I'm John Gunterman, and I want to welcome you to another episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast. Joining me in the studio are Mandelyn Royal and Rip Stalvey, the rest of our podcast team, and we're looking forward to visiting with you and talking poultry from feathers to function.
Rip Stalvey:We're going to be talking about heat stress that's something a lot of us are dealing with. Let's get right to it, shall we? When we get hot weather, the birds are suffering, feed intake drops, egg production drops, the egg weight decreases, the shell quality decreases, the albumin height or the egg white height decreases, they're drinking a lot of water, trying to stay hydrated, trying to keep cool, and all that. Water intake will affect the albumin height. Their growth rate slows. I know I've got some young reds now, and it's really bad on them. They just sit around and mope, and they don't eat much, and they don't grow much. Maybe when cool weather comes it'll pick back up, and they'll get with the program. We can see an increase in mortality especially when we have really severe cases of heat stress. Cannibalism can increase. The suppression and immuno system goes up and one thing a lot of folks don't realize is that it can also affect hatchability and fertility, especially in roosters, although I think most of us are probably done hatching by this point. I know we've still got some diehards who live further north and aren't quite as impacted with the heat that are Not having those problems down below that, but production losses from heat stress. It's going to depend a lot on the maximum temperature to which our flock is exposed. I'm not going to get in, Jeff's going to, I know he's going to address what we do to overcome that. But the high temperatures, the duration of the high temperatures, the rate of temperature change. And relative humidity, we've, here in Florida, we have a real problem with humidity. Yesterday, the humidity was actually higher than the temperature and that's not all that uncommon. Jeff, what can we do to help our birds get through this season?
Jeff Mattocks:Yeah, I, just looking at the top slide or the top, stuff up there. Look that feed intake is going to go down. We've talked about it in previous episodes where, Birds eat for their calorie need every day. And so when it gets hot, they require less calories. That's why we had that heat feed, that temperature chart that, how much bird needs to eat and what the protein should be. So people that are still actually trying to produce eggs for hatching or table eggs or whatever in Florida, All of my customers are on a 20 percent protein layer feed in the summer. And we pretty much start that by tax day, somewhere around April 15th, first of May, and we stay on that till mid November, so you're almost looking at tax day through Thanksgiving, same thing in Texas. Oklahoma, all of the hotter states higher humidity, and instead of looking at temperature, we, just like they do for us, we need to look at that, heat index, what is that field like temperature, what is that heat index number, because they're feeling it too, when the humidity goes up and the temperature goes up, that's the number that actually matters to the chicken it's not just heat, and it's not just humidity, it's a combination. But, to make a good size egg, you got to get 21 grams, not percent, so people need to hear me. I need to get 21 grams of protein in a chicken to produce a large egg, okay? So if we don't get them, then we're not going to get a decent egg.
Rip Stalvey:I got a quick question. Last time I was in our local big box feed store here. About the only thing I could find in the way of a layer was 16 or 17 percent.
Jeff Mattocks:Yep.
Rip Stalvey:Is it possible you could switch them back to a starter to raise that protein up? If you can't find something?
Jeff Mattocks:You can absolutely move them back to a 21, 20 to 22 starter. And then hand add the oyster shell, for the calcium part of it, and they'll do fine. Where people can't access those higher quality, 19 20 percent protein feeds, that's exactly what we do. We go find something in the right protein range, hopefully with the right amino acid levels, and then we add the calcium separately. And it works. It gets you through.
Rip Stalvey:I was so thankful when we finally got somebody carrying that triple M farm feeds down here. That stuff has made a huge difference. And I don't have that problem or that concern when we deal with heat, trying to find a higher quality protein. It just was not available here in this area.
Jeff Mattocks:No, it wasn't. It was for a little while then it wasn't for, a couple of years and then, Caleb started bringing it back in again down there at Bergen farms. Cause he wanted it for himself, Caleb called me and said, Hey, I need good breeder feed for my turkeys. So I made him formulas and he started working it up to bring it in from triple M farms and. I said, why don't you make this available for other people in your area? I can do that. Of course, Caleb's always pretty positive and, wish there was more people like that who can bring it in, turn it.
Rip Stalvey:And I got us off track with that, but I, it's just an experience that I've had and I know how difficult it's going to be for some folks trying to find a hire. Protein feed to feed their birds, if they're looking for those high end or higher protein levels in their layer, it's just not out there in a lot of places, so you have to scratch around and do the best you can for your birds.
Jeff Mattocks:Yep, but you definitely, whenever you're above 90 degrees or above 85 actually, with a fair amount of humidity above 60%, you really want your layers on 19, 20, 21 percent protein. And just, especially if you want eggs, okay, if you need eggs, that's fine. You can get them through the summer on a 16%, just don't have high expectations for performance and they're not going to eat a lot. So feed intake goes down, automatically, your production and your egg weight and shell quality, all that's going to go right with it. So it's directly tied.
John Gunterman:Jeff, should we be cutting back on our fat additives on our feed to reduce the energy levels?
Jeff Mattocks:Actually, John, no, because here's the thing so if you break apart your different components of a feed just into the simplistic, proteins, carbs, and fats fats have the least effect on body temperature, proteins are the worst, And carbs are right behind them, so getting energy from fat is actually more of a stress reliever than, getting energy from corn or grain or, starch and carbohydrates. Yeah, definitely not the time to remove. to remove your fats.
Rip Stalvey:And folks, if you're brand new to poultry and you're not really sure what some of the signs of heat stress are, if you see your birds standing around with their wings dropped down and held out from the body, they're trying to cool off. You'll see them panting a lot. They don't have the ability to sweat like we do, so the only way they can get rid of body heat is through opening those wings up and trying to cool off. through panning, and also their comb and wattles will also serve to help dissipate their body heat just by circulating the blood through those, but if you see any of those combinations going on you need to do something for your birds before it gets too bad. I talk to folks every year who have lost birds. I talked to one Orpington Breeder, oh gosh, it's been about four or five years ago now, who lost almost half their flock of English Orpingtons, and they didn't live in a particularly hot part of the country, but they have such profuse feathering that the heat was really rough on them, so if you're raising these breeds, Loose feathered birds like Orpingtons, or Cochins, or Brahmas, Langshans you're basically some of your Asiatic type breeds. You need to plan ahead for these birds because they're going to have problems dealing with the heat, I can guarantee it.
Jeff Mattocks:Rip, people don't want to hear this and I beat a dead horse, so to speak, but when we hit this end of July, beginning of August, It's a perfect time to molt your birds, and here's the thing, you want to get rid of the internal fat, because all it's doing is holding heat, plus you lowered the protein, you lowered the carbohydrates so you're taking heat stress off the birds anyway, and you're limiting the amount of feed, it all comes together timing wise for a reason. When you hit the hardest, now, people living in the tropics with 12 hours of light and the weather's always 85 degrees, the birds don't really know when to molt. I think it's more based on the length of day, just shifting a little bit that might trigger it. But it's not as indicative, as what we have up here, in the Northern Hemisphere. It's completely different, but the timing for doing a molt is perfect, for most people, birds want to do it that time anyway hard part is, right now are all the fairs, and some of the shows, but 4 H shows and county fairs and so on, you want your bird to be looking good and it's tough.
Rip Stalvey:It is, so many shows particularly north of where I live, much, much further north occurred during the summer and that's the hardest time of the year to have a bird in condition to show well. You can just look at them cross eyed and they'll start dropping plumage, just molting like crazy. But you're right. This is the opportune time of the year to take advantage of what would occur naturally and just manage that moat. We've got a video on YouTube. It's called Managing the Molt. We did a live stream on that and Jeff was talking to everybody through exactly the steps you need to go through to properly manage that moat and drop that excess body weight. I'm just going to echo what he said because we can't say it enough. Our birds can overeat in a heartbeat. They can put on excess fat that they don't need. If you have a bird that, that dies, unfortunately, and you open it up and you see all this yellow fat in there, that bird's overweight, and that, that was adding to the stress that bird was under trying to lose body heat. Jeff, what about Water. What can we do to encourage birds to drink water?
Jeff Mattocks:I uploaded the video that Carol Wilson shared with us from Grimes Cadillac, where you're using a fairly inexpensive cooler, and you're putting cold water in there, and Carol's actually going out to get like the one gallon paint pails that you can get at Lowe's or Home Depot. She's going to be freezing blocks of water. Of water to put in those coolers to keep that temperature cool. More throughout the day. And what I'm getting ready to say, I realize not everybody can do this, but for people that are at home all the time, throughout the day, if you can figure out how to change out your water just before the hottest part of the day, so if you eat your lunch and you go out and you actually changed your water, then. You would be helping your birds out tremendously, as long as there's air movement, the birds also, as long as, so using fans, setting up your buildings, trying to get as much air movement as you can is going to help the birds, they do perspire, so that evaporation process, if there's no air moving, the birds are just miserable. No matter where they're at. So that's going to be a big help. I actually told a breeder out in California, if he could rig up his pens with recirculating water, like they do in motels and other places. So you always, you get hot water right away. In this case, you would get cold water right away. So tubing going through all the pens or the, or all the, where the birds are and, doing a cutout trough, but the water's constantly moving in Because birds will chase moving water. We've all seen it, right? You dump a bucket and they're gonna chase dirty water across the floor or across the ground. Yeah, friends of mine down here in O'Brien, Florida, they figured this out with their turkeys, right? So they'll actually use that quarter inch tubing small spaghetti type tubing, and they'll rig that up so it just dribbles all day into a pan, all day it's moving. They increase their water consumption by nearly 20%. By doing that, they increase their feed consumption by almost 40%. And they knocked off grow out time for those birds.
Rip Stalvey:Those are pretty good numbers.
Jeff Mattocks:Those are really good numbers. When they figured out that the turkeys needed, they wanted running water. And he sent me a video. I should share that with you. Remind me tomorrow and I'll try and dig it up. But, okay. He sent me a video of that dribbling into a pan underneath, and turkeys are just reaching right up there, they're trying to get to that water source, catch it while it's in midair. It's hilarious. If you need some good redneck entertainment, this is it.
Rip Stalvey:I know I've got some good friends who are into birding and bird photography and wild birds and all those kind of things. And they actually have what they call a water dribbler. Attaches to the side of your birdbath and it's just constantly dripping water. And the sound of that water, the birds just flock to it. I can absolutely see where it worked with poultry.
Jeff Mattocks:I have never seen any type of poultry that didn't like to chase water. I never have. And you're older than me, Rip, but you know it to be true, right? You're thinking, you birds are stupid. I just gave you fresh water and you're chasing it across the dirty floor. So if you can figure out a way to, to move water and they, that once they find it, you'll increase that. And if you can figure out how to cool it and move it. In a recirculation system, you're going to do a lot for your birds.
Rip Stalvey:Somebody on one of our groups, and I don't know whether it was a Poultry Keepers 360 Facebook group, or your Poultry Breeders Nutrition group, posted a design that he had for recirculating water. I'd have to go back and look to see if I could find it.
Jeff Mattocks:The only other one that I shared, I, you're right, and I don't remember who that was, but I've shared one but it's more in like a large coop confinement for, a group of blayers, and really he just had two 35 gallon trash cans on, at both ends, and, He just uses a sump pump, and he'd run it down that tube, and it'd go to the other end, and when the sump pump kicked on, it'd push it back, and it just recirculated, and he had a stock float, so the barrel never ran out of water, but he's doing that for winter water. They never, so it helps keep it from freezing in the northern winter times.
Rip Stalvey:And folks, this just occurred to me, but if you have a garden center around you that carries a lot of equipment for aquaponics and hydroponics, they're going to have some of these smaller pumps, and they're not too big. They're not really all that expensive, so that could be a good place to pick up one of those without paying a horrendous price for it.
Jeff Mattocks:If you want to get really crazy, this is what I do here. I have, from a company called PetSafe, you can find them, Tractor Supply, online at Chewy, wherever, right? PetSafe. I have a water fountain for my three cats and the dog, right? And, I can't tell you how many times in the course of a day I watch them. They're drinking where it comes out of the fountain. Versus out of the bottom of the trough. Now, if she's in a hurry and she needs volume in a hurry, she'll drink out of the trough, but yeah, her and the cats, the dog and the three cats, they all like to drink it where it comes out of the top of that fountain. You could invest in those. And you need electric, but I swear, you're going to increase your, your volume of water intake and anytime you get more water in them, they're going to be healthier, just bottom line.
Rip Stalvey:What about. And we've talked about this in other situations, but is, would there be any benefit, to example, adding molasses to your water?
Jeff Mattocks:And I posted that out there. Did you put it on Poultry Keepers 360? I know I put it on Poultry Breeder Nutrition, but basically, the poultry electrolyte, And you can use it for anything. I shouldn't just say it's for poultry. Here's the thing, it's two tablespoons of apple cider vinegar, one tablespoon of cooking molasses or blackstrap molasses. Great about, and this is per gallon of water, and great about a teaspoon of fresh ginger. And about a teaspoon of salt. Mix that up really good and serve it. And, I think, John, aren't you doing that?
John Gunterman:You just described what I drink every day. And give it to my chickens when it's appropriate. I try not to give it to them all the time.
Jeff Mattocks:I quit using the word switchel because People thought it was some sort of voodoo,
John Gunterman:I found out there's an alcoholic drink Haymaker's Punch that they also called switchel that's loosely based on the same flavor profile.
Jeff Mattocks:But if you look up homemade switchel, the base thing, the base formula is what I just gave you per gallon and don't put the lid on. When you put the ginger and everything in there, because it's going to, it's going to fizz up. It actually gets a little fizzy like a carbonated soft drink and it's fine. But just don't put the lid on too tight. You could have an accident. But the, the birds are going to love it, right? And when it's really hot, you can make this up three, four days ahead of time. It's not going to spoil. It's really simple. But as far as heat stress, it's phenomenal.
John Gunterman:When I use it I empty my waterers on a daily basis because I was worried about bacteria build up because of the excess sugar.
Jeff Mattocks:Really
John Gunterman:not that much of a concern.
Jeff Mattocks:Yeah. If you used it today and tomorrow you just went in and put in fresh water I'm good. I'm good with that. Just depends on, how often you're doing it, but when you're above 90, 95 degrees, or your heat index is above 90, man, I could see doing it at least three or four times a week. And as soon as you serve it, you're going to see the energy level of the birds pick up within an hour. It is phenomenal how much difference it makes. I know how much of a difference it makes when I drink it. Okay. It's crazy. It's a real energy boost. I was calling it chicken Gatorade for a little while, but that's not really fair. Switchel is hard for people to understand or Google it. So I don't know, but the recipes out there poultry breeder nutrition group. And Rip, you can grab it and put it on the other. Phenomenal stuff, cool water lots of shade, try and capture as much moving air.
John Gunterman:Is garlic going to help this time
Jeff Mattocks:of year? I, so here's my thing with garlic is I like to hold it back and only use it when I have an illness. Okay. So if I suspect I have an infection in the bird, that's when I want to really get after the garlic to use it prophylactically or just use it You know, because it's awesome stuff. I lose the benefits, when it comes time to treat an illness. So you just, you need to make that personal decision on your own. Do you want to reserve it for an emergency or do you want to use it all the time? There's nothing wrong with using it all the time. I have nothing against it, but you know that you need to bruise it. And you need to let it change from that creamy white to more of a brown, right? It'll get dark when you bruise it and then slice it up cause you want to release the internal compound known as allicin. And the allicin is the true benefits behind garlic.
Rip Stalvey:What about vitamin or mineral supplements? Anything you would suggest there? I've heard all sorts of things, but never tried any.
Jeff Mattocks:I'm not opposed to them. Here's the thing is, all the electrolyte packs that you buy at Tractor Supply, Jeffers Supply every, everywhere online, If you look at them and read the label closely potassium chloride, magnesium chloride, sodium chloride, okay, they're loaded with salt. All those are salts and, too much salt. So you don't run those every day and you don't run them over their recommended levels. Just don't, cause you're gonna, that much salt, you could do damage to the kidneys. And you could also actually have some salt burn, in the digestive tract. So you use those when you're under like severe stress and you don't have anything else, then go ahead and use them. I'm, people are addicted to those things. It's crazy how many people, give them electrolytes.
Rip Stalvey:It's one of the first things I hear.
Jeff Mattocks:And I cringe, it's no, please don't just give them the chicken gatorade and, maybe we need to call that chickenade or something, I don't know, we need to give it a name, but, and just get it out there for people, it's so much it's simple, once you have the molasses, and every kitchen should have the vinegar every kitchen has the salt, the only thing that you gotta get is, The ginger, and John, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know this 100%, but I would think you could grate the whole ginger root and take your teaspoon, put the rest in a jar and probably put it in the freezer and not really lose, if you were cooking with it, you would lose flavor, but for this purpose of the switchel or the chicken aid, I don't think you'd lose the benefits, but I don't know the properties of ginger frozen.
John Gunterman:I'm just wondering if it's the aroma. Or the flavor of the ginger, or there's some thing that's in there. I would say, mix it in with your salt and let the salts absorb,
Jeff Mattocks:and then you can take two. If you went even amounts and you could just go two teaspoons of the salt. Yeah.
John Gunterman:Or just take your bruised lump of ginger and throw it in the container with the salt and let it absorb that. If I, if that's what they're after,
Jeff Mattocks:I think it's more than the scent. I really do think there's a compound in the ginger that is giving an energy boost, whether it's vitamin or other, I don't know. There's definitely an unusual taste when you, with and without the ginger in the switchel.
John Gunterman:I notice that I use candied ginger because getting fresh ginger here out in the hinterlands is difficult. Why don't you start? And for my own internal Hell, if I notice a difference, you just start growing.
Jeff Mattocks:Ginger,
John Gunterman:I can do ginseng here. I can't do ginger.
Jeff Mattocks:Really? Not even in the greenhouse with the chickens.
John Gunterman:If I can keep the chickens from eating it,
Rip Stalvey:I don't hardly think they'd eat it. It's a, I don't either It's a root or rhizome underneath the ground. Sometimes I marvel at what chickens will and won't do, and they'll prove me a liar every time.
John Gunterman:I had a question we've been having horrendous rains for weeks on end and everything is just soaked here. And I've noticed in the local Poultry groups, we've seen an increase in respiratory problems, and I'm expecting to see a rise in feed and mold related issues. Anything we can do to stay ahead of this curve?
Jeff Mattocks:Big thing is chickens aren't ducks, and they don't like wet feet. So when you get really soggy ground or wet environment, throwing in a pallet or something for them to get up off the ground for it. a significant part of the day and or night, right? So if you don't, for people that may not have roost for sure but they need the opportunity to get up off the ground. Not a good time to be spilling feed on the ground because it's going to start fermenting really quick and you don't want that. So you need to be careful. But truthfully people, when it gets horrible rains like you guys have been having up there, John Everybody kind of buttons up their chicken coop, but they don't reopen it for air flow soon enough. The day after the rain, or as soon as you can, open it up as much as you can and let it air out. Okay, just get as much moisture out of that coop. Fresh bedding, definitely key. Just anything to get them separated from moisture.
John Gunterman:I was actually thinking of putting in like a, almost like a wire drop through floor in my coop just to get the poultry up out of their litter and manure. Cause it is so damp. And even, I went out and, use some peat moss, which is awesome. And it like instantly corrected that little hint of ammonia smell I was starting to pick up. Yeah, it's tough right now. This brings us to the close of another Poultry Keepers podcast. We're very happy you chose to join us. Until next time, we'd appreciate it if you would drop us a note, letting us know your thoughts about our podcast. Please share our podcast with your friends that keep poultry. We hope you'll join us again when we'll be talking poultry from feathers to function.