Poultry Keepers Podcast

Best Practices for Brooding Baby Chicks-Part 2

• Rip Stalvey, Jeff Marrocks • Season 2 • Episode 99

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In Part 2 of our series on best practices for brooding baby chicks, Rip Stalvey and Jeff Mattocks continue their discussion on creating the ideal environment for young chicks. This episode dives deep into important factors like adjusting brooder temperature, choosing the right protein levels for chick starter feed, managing amino acid intake, monitoring crop fill, preventing pasty butt, and why grit and probiotics can make a big difference in early chick health.

Topics covered include:

·      How to fine-tune brooder temperature as chicks grow

·      Understanding protein and amino acid requirements for healthy growth

·      Practical feeding and watering tips for young chicks

·      How to use crop fill monitoring to gauge chick health and feeding success

·      The role of probiotics and using milk as a natural option

·      Brooder lighting and bedding management best practices

·      How to recognize signs of dehydration and respiratory issues early

·      Real-world advice from experienced poultry nutritionist Jeff Mattocks

Whether you're raising a small backyard flock or preparing your next generation of breeding stock, this episode will give you actionable insights to help your chicks thrive.

Visit www.thepoultrykeeperspodcast.com for show notes, bonus resources, and more expert poultry management tips.

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Alex:

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Poultry Keepers Podcast. In this episode Jeff Mattocks and Rip Stallvee finish up their session on the Best Practices for Brooding Baby Chicks. Let's join them now as the pick up where they left off last week.

Rip Stalvey:

Know what we recommend, I noticed that most of the Chickstarter protein now is about 18%. Most of the over the counter stuff.

Jeff Mattocks:

It's all over the place and I see growers all over the place. I see people using game bird starters. I see people using, and, 20%, 20 to 22. Okay. Because we do have breeding birds and show birds and not commercial birds. Those feeds that you're seeing, advertised at, different places around and. Those are for commercial meat birds, that's primarily what they're growing them for or what they're putting that on the shelf for. And, but yeah, for fancy birds, with great plumage and a aspirations to be breeders somewhere down the road. I like 20 to 22 as long as those amino acids are correct. And I know I've beat amino acids for the last three years. So it's but. Every time we do this we got new people listening and it's like those amino acids are criticals.

Rip Stalvey:

I'm all, a few shows

Jeff Mattocks:

ago. Yeah, a couple shows ago, somebody asked me, what is the best Kickstarter? And I said to be honest it was, carries show pro Kickstarter. And'cause we know that the amino acids are. Perfect. They're spot on and it's got meat, protein, it's got the right fat levels, it's got the and it's amazing. He's astonished at how many people actually, place the order and Got it. And I'm happy for him and those people are, if they do it right, management wise, you've started chicks on it, you know what I'm talking about. So it's, it is hands down, when you ever get your hands on that perfect Kickstarter, it's like, where have I been my whole life? It, and you've been doing it 50 years and that's, I you've been doing it 50 years and, you just did it the first time here in the last couple years, using a, a superior enhanced Kickstarter. And it's you were amazed, right? Oh yeah. Just listening to your comments a couple years ago, it's like, where have I been my whole life? I didn't know you could do that.

Rip Stalvey:

Exactly right. I felt bad for all those chicks I started on. Anything else over the years? Survival Flare wants to know if they can use whole fresh goat milk. Will that work?

Jeff Mattocks:

Sure.

Rip Stalvey:

Will any,

Jeff Mattocks:

any mammal milk? I don't care if you got. Goat milk, cow milk, camel milk, horse milk, pig milk. It doesn't matter to me. If you want to milk your sheep, then that's fine too. All of those milks will work just fine. O milk, cashew milk, coconut milk. And those are not from a mammal. They don't count. They're not real milk.

Rip Stalvey:

I'm just sitting here trying to visualize me trying to milk a hog, but

Jeff Mattocks:

somebody's done it because they had an analysis for what you know what pig milk is,

Rip Stalvey:

That's a little bit, somebody milk enough

Jeff Mattocks:

to enough to know. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think she's gonna stand still for it, but that's

Rip Stalvey:

not even close. Nope. Nope. Let see, we talked about Wattles. As your chicks grow, we talk about wattles. I was, we didn't talk about wattles. We talked about the feeders. But as your chicks grow, do not forget to raise the height of your feeders and your waterers to just below the back of those chicks. That's where you want the lip of those feeders and wattles that will keep your feed and wattles cleaner. Plus, they will waste less feed that way Now.

Jeff Mattocks:

Wattles. People don't believe us people. People don't believe us, Rick.'cause I still see pictures.

Rip Stalvey:

Oh yeah.

Jeff Mattocks:

Of feeders and wattles sitting on the ground. Flat

Rip Stalvey:

on the ground.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yep. Yep. And they're like why is my, why am my chicks wasting so much feed? Let's see. Because you have your feeder on the ground maybe. Exactly. And it's not good feed

Rip Stalvey:

anyway. When I start baby chicks, I will put some brightly colored marbles in that little water tray just to attract the chick's attention to it. And they'll picket that. And just something I've been doing for years since I started back when I was raising Bob White Quale, I did that and Wow, that helped

Jeff Mattocks:

keep you're quail

Rip Stalvey:

from,

Jeff Mattocks:

you're right on the money. So if you have those little quart flip overs with the trougher on it, there's, or even the gallon size, the reason you want the secondary reason you wanna put those marbles in there is they can't get in it to their feathers. So they're not gonna get wet, they're not gonna get Mercedes. They're not gonna get dead. Yeah, it's. And putting those marbles or something like that in there that's shiny, glittery, different color, something to attract them. You're right on the money. Rip. Can you still buy marbles though?

Rip Stalvey:

Yeah. You still buy'em? I know you

Jeff Mattocks:

got a bag from when you were a kid, but I don't know if you, I haven't seen marbles.

Rip Stalvey:

Mary got some the other day for some little Christmas boxes she puts together for kids and Okay. I'm pretty sure they came from Amazon, but I've seen them at places like Hobby Lobby and all that kind of place.

Jeff Mattocks:

All right, so they still do make marbles. Still make marbles.

Rip Stalvey:

All right. Samantha Grigg. Whoops. Where'd it go here, Samantha Grigg wants to know she's jumping in late, but if this has been touched on, is anyone using coarse sand as a bedding for baby chicks? I.

Jeff Mattocks:

I have seen it used. It's not my favorite. I you can, it'll it does draw the moisture outta the manure pretty quickly. So if you're a person who wants to rake out your bedding and remove the manure on a daily basis, saying could have potential, but, I, I don't know that I wanna recycle it or reuse it from batch to batch, so makes me a little bit nervous. But like I said, it's not my favorite. So it's, but it can be used as long as it's warm. Here's the downside that I'm seeing from people that like to bet on sand. It appears to be drawing moisture out of the feathers and the feathers will have a dryer look. Okay, so you're gonna if you're doing breeding stock or pretty foul, then you're working against yourself by using sand.'cause it's a desiccant that will draw moisture. And when your birds, it's actually coarse, right? That's what they make sandpaper with. So if your birds start dusting in it, you're also gonna have, it's gonna be abrasive to the feathers, during formation. Yeah. That's my thoughts on sand.

Rip Stalvey:

I agree with that.'cause I know when I used to have Bob White quail on sand, the feathers looked horrible. Absolutely horrible. Yeah. Let's see. Ingrid had a good one here. Ingrid says for water, she used to cut some hose to length and put that in the red part of the water. She's talking about like pieces of old water hose and that kind of stuff. That would work great.

Jeff Mattocks:

And it keeps'em from Yeah, they can't jump in there. They can still drink. There's enough depth there. They can still drink, it doesn't clog the foun, right? The F still works the way it's supposed to. But there's only like a quarter of anal water over the top of it, so so they learn how to work with a drinker, a water fountain, then that's a safe way to go.

Rip Stalvey:

Imperium ceramics, said Dollar Store has a ton of marbles. Nice. They probably do.

Jeff Mattocks:

I might just go get something to have fun with.

Rip Stalvey:

You'll play for keeps too. I know you. Absolutely. Laura Miller wants to know the regimen for yogurt probiotic.

Jeff Mattocks:

Look, milk is my first choice, right? I don't want people just jumping ahead trying to get ahead of the class. Milk and a disposable aluminum pipe plate half full. And what they'll consume first time is two hours after that, what they clean up in about an hour, right? And so the regimen is day three, day seven, day 14, day 21, and day 28, and then stop. So you're basically doing it one day a week. But the first dose is on day three, day seven, day 14, day 21, day 28. Okay. Then we can use it. We can use it later on in life if, okay. You see there's a whole bunch of strange looking, droppings in the pen. Like they ate something, they might've got some spoiled feed or something like that. Fine, let's give them, let's give'em a dose of milk, right? But. Chickens actually don't digest glucose and some of the things in milk properly. So doing it all the time, it'll act as a laxative and can create problems. So

Rip Stalvey:

here's a good question. Survival Flare. Says she has eight, three week old chicks and she says she has a feeling she has five males and three females. The roosters are fighting so much, like really fighting. Should I separate'em if they're fighting that much? Nope. Turn down the lights.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yep, turn down the light. She's got too much light in it.

Rip Stalvey:

And they may be a little bit too crowded.

Jeff Mattocks:

I could be too. But. Yeah, my first go-to is probably the light. They're just overstimulated. This is amazing. I find people that there's too much light in their brooder for too long. Okay, so we didn't talk about lighting. I'm just gonna give you the really quick, this is the down and dirty on lighting. Okay? You have two to three days of 24 hours of light, right? White light, not bright. White light, full spectrum white light, three days. Okay? Then after that, you take'em down to 16 hours of light with an eight hour rest period, okay? And you leave them there for about two weeks, then you're gonna bring them down to 12 to 13 hours of light, and you're gonna leave'em there all the way through the development stage. Okay? Again, not bright lights. You only need between five and 10 foot candles of light or a chicken. Okay, that is not a lot. And there is, there's a free app. You can download it for measuring lux or foot candles. Just make sure you get the free version. And it works great. I downloaded it and. So you can check lighting, whenever you like, but just look, turkeys like sun. Some birds like sun, okay? Chickens are not those birds, okay? They are not sun worshipers and they're not gonna go lay on the beach all day long. Right now. People say, oh, I see him laying in the sun. You will. They're gonna take 30 minutes to an hour. They'll lay in the sun, they'll soak up the rays. Get their energy, but they're not gonna do it all day. And at your mature lock. Yeah. Look at your mature birds. Where they at? From 10:00 AM to about two or three in the afternoon. They're gonna be in the shade.

Rip Stalvey:

Her comment is, oh my gosh, I have kept the light on full time. That will do it.

Jeff Mattocks:

I figured they're overstimulated, right? So I tell you, you put me under a bright light for 24 hours a day, full-time for three weeks. I'm gonna fight something. I'm gonna fight something. Something's gonna die.

Rip Stalvey:

And not gonna be you. No. Let's see here. What about some common illnesses people need to be aware of? I know the one thing that probably comes to mind right off the bat is pasty butt. I used to have an occasional problem with pasty butt, but since I started giving my baby chicks grit and grit is in the feed that I give them automatically. But I still offer'em a little container of grit. But since I've been giving them grit, I haven't had any more cases of pasty butt. Now, I don't know if that's the grit is what's causing it or not. I'm just saying that's what happened.

Jeff Mattocks:

Grit, you did a lot of things right? You went to a really good feed, right? Properly balanced. You went to a good feed. You went to grid, right? And. You've been hanging out with crazy people like me now for three years. So a whole lot of things have changed in your life. I keep hoping that some of

Rip Stalvey:

that stuff will wear off on me, but so far I'm questioning all of it.

Jeff Mattocks:

No, you're doing fine. Pasty butt can come from too high of a temperature. Too low of a temperature. If the feed's not solid, right? If it's not a really great feed, you can get pasty butt from. What worries me is every time somebody sees pasty butt, they immediately want to get some CID or amrolia or something. Yeah. Yeah. And that ain't pasty butt is not always co acidosis. And in fact, no. I would say 75% of the time it is not coccidiosis. Okay. You probably just have a little bit of a digestive upset, you can hit'em with some milk, but, Rip your observation. So you went to a proper fiber feed, you went to grit. You went to a lot of things, and it's just all coming together and, but a lot of times in the brooder, actually in the brooder. I see pasty, but related more to temperature, yeah. Temperature control.'cause if you get'em too hot, if you don't have something that'll regulate the temperature, especially now with, like our days are in the eighties already and our nights are in the fifties. If you don't have something to semi regulate that and help you manage temperature swings. You can see some pasty butt. If you overheat'em, if you get'em too hot, they drink extra water and you know that's where you're gonna get some runny droppings, some pasty butt.

Rip Stalvey:

Yeah. John Pelton says he uses apple cider vinegar with mothers as well as grit after a week old, and that helps prevent it. There you go. I agree. Thanks for sharing that, John. Yep. Yep. And Sue Dobson. We were talking about heating brooders, and she says she loves brooder plates. I've never tried one. I maybe, I don't know what I'm missing out on.

Jeff Mattocks:

Me neither may have to, me neither.

Rip Stalvey:

May I have to break? I'm old fashioned.

Jeff Mattocks:

I, I use the old red infrared light, I use the old, the good ones, the high quality that are actually red glass. Okay.

Rip Stalvey:

Not, I started using, I had one of those

Jeff Mattocks:

ones,

Rip Stalvey:

huh? I was gonna say I started using those ceramic heaters that, they look like a Yeah. They just screw into a light socket and I've been using those for yeah. Six, seven years.

Jeff Mattocks:

They're safer, you

Rip Stalvey:

know, not having any problems. There's a lot of horror stores. If I happen to bump up against it, it gets pretty hot. It'll squirt you.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah, I can believe that. I just grew up using the red light bulb and it's worked fine and as long as I'm conscious about it, I manage it correctly. It works for me so

Rip Stalvey:

That good management practices that factors in huge into how our birds turn out. You know it really does. It does. It does. Good management, good feed, and good genetics. You're off to a good start. Sue Dobson says they self adjust to their needs. I do tilt them and no one area is really warm or another really cooler. Sue, you keep it up. I'm gonna have to break down and get one of those rascals.

Jeff Mattocks:

A lot of people are using them.

Rip Stalvey:

Yeah. Oh yeah. Wow. Let's see here. Oh distress signs in baby checks and a bruer. If you hear loud chirping, that sounds really distraught. You need to check and find out what's going on. Your chicks may be too cold, they may be too hot. They may need feed. They may need water. Just don't ignore that. Please. You gotta stay on top of those kind of things. I like to see, and we didn't touch on this when we were talking about heat, but I like to see chicks that are evenly distributed throughout the brooder when I see'em. Peddling up in a corner or up in one side, then I start worrying about drafts coming from the other direction because they're trying to get away from it. If I see him forming a circle around inside of that's telling me that it's starting to get a little bit too warm under that brooder. But as long as they're evenly distributed around the brooder and running around and eating and pecking and just doing chicken things. I'm completely happy with that.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yep. I agree. But you can get those, you can get that kind of go to the, you're talking about drafts, if you see a bunch of'em in a corner or something like that. I've actually seen it where like there's a shadow in the room. Or, Something that moves across the top of them, and their instinct is that, that's a predator. And of course they group together, right? So yeah if you don't think it's temperature or you don't think it's a draft, just look for the reason why they're going to that corner, right? So there's gonna be a reason.

Rip Stalvey:

Pretty soon you can get to where you can start to think like chickens. I hate to admit that's not a good thing. Yeah, I know

Jeff Mattocks:

that's not a good thing.

Rip Stalvey:

Oh, mercy. Jeff, what about, what's your feelings on electrolytes and vitamin packages for baby chicks? Do they need it? Do they not need it?

Jeff Mattocks:

They shouldn't need it. I, these foil, pouch pack electrolytes or stuff that, when I read down through the label there's, yeah, exactly. There's too many chlorides. Okay, there's sodium chloride, potassium chloride, magnesium chloride. Folks, those are all salts, okay? Everything that, they're all salt and they're designed to go into the bloodstream quickly. I get it. Okay. So there's a time and a place for electrolytes, if you detect some dehydration, and you can see that by skin. You can look at their feet and see that. You can see around their eyes if their eyes are a little bit drawn in or sunken in from normal, if they're stressed, I, I just don't, they just sell those electrolyte packs like crazy and they're gonna keep selling them no matter what. I say. It doesn't matter. But, do we really need them? No. We need really good clean water. You can put a little apple cider vinegar in it if you want. That's fine. We put put on the group sites. We put the homemade electrolyte mix out there works as good as anything you're gonna buy in a foil pouch. But just don't do it because you think you're supposed to do it. Do it for the right reasons. Okay. Again, you knowwhere if you're seeing some distress or something like

Rip Stalvey:

thatwhere Jeff somewhere. I've got some photos and I think I posted them one time of signs you can look for on baby chicks to see whether they're dehydrated or not. I'm gonna have to see if I can dig those out.

Jeff Mattocks:

That would be great if you can get some good pictures to show people what the signs, I know how to do it only by looking at the viscosity or the moisture content of the manure dropping, right? So the quick, easy way to say this is I want a man nore dropping to be wider than it is tall. So if I see manure that is stacking up, that's not a good thing, right? The right amount of moisture to the right amount of solids, I'm gonna get a nice, like quarter size dropping that's maybe a quarter to three eighths of an inch high. Okay? It's not gonna be stacking an inch or. And there's variables to that because if they're, if you're measuring the poop on the roost at night, it's gonna be taller, right? And it's gonna be drier.'cause they haven't drank, from sundown till whatever. But it's their daytime droppings, I'd to see, they should be, you should be able to see the moisture. And the other way is take a putty knife or a stick and see how soft they are. Right? Just squish'em out and see if they're hard, like a rabbit pellet. Then we got a problem. You're not getting enough water into your birds, whether it's not easily accessible, for whatever reason, they're just not right. They're not getting enough water into'em. Their water consumption should always be. Twice as much as the feed. Okay? So if they eat a pound of feed, they should drink two pounds of water. Okay? There's the rule of thumb for poultry forever. This is, we've known this for a hundred years two to one by weight. You keep pushing my buttons and getting me going down the wrong road.

Rip Stalvey:

That's partially the intent, but I do it with a good heart.

Jeff Mattocks:

You just like to see me get up on my soapbox.

Rip Stalvey:

I've been there a time or two myself. Now let's face it.

Jeff Mattocks:

All right,

Rip Stalvey:

all. John wants to know what's your thoughts on respiratory problems in baby chicks? Had one about two weeks ago,

Jeff Mattocks:

boy, John, I got the airflow. If we've got the, okay. People bundle up their baby chicks, right? And they do not exchange the air in the brooder often enough, so no matter where the chicken lives, okay, brooder. Sitting on your lap, out in the chicken coop, wherever. Okay. We need a hundred percent air exchange, a minimum of six times per day. Okay? That's even down at the chick level. So we have to figure a way to mix it and remove it, okay? And it's not gonna hurt the chicks to be cooled for 10 or 15 minutes. Okay. It's not like it's gonna be forever. So gotta have air quality. Gotta have air. And that's the best way to avoid those, that. And, managing your bedding are the top two things for managing respiratory issues. Yeah. In any age of chicken.

Rip Stalvey:

And if you're around your breed brooder and you smell ammonia, you got a problem. I. Poultry are much more sensitive to ammonia than we are, and if we can smell it up on our level, just imagine what it's like for those little chicks down there having to breathe that stuff. That will cause respiratory problems. It will also cause eye damage.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah it'll burn the retina in no time or the coronary stay.

Rip Stalvey:

Stay after that. Keep that bedding dry. Let's see. Katie wants to know, was it one of you guys talking about how the birds, like the cat drinking fountains? I believe that was Jeff.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yep. If you, whenever you can have moving water, chickens will consume more. So I got a friend of mine in Florida, he actually rigs up specialized kind of shelters for his turkeys to drink. I. And he's what they call spa. Yeah. He's got spaghetti tubing and he just lets it dribble. And it goes into a trough so they can drink out of a trough. But he found that his turkeys will consume more water if it's moving. And the same happens. You flip over, if you flip over one of your chicken drinkers and it runs away across the bottom of the coop, you know they're all gonna chase it. They love,

Rip Stalvey:

they'll get right to where it's going.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah if you had, a little pump and you had a way to just keep it moving Yeah. It's gonna attract'em, they're gonna consume more, they're gonna be healthier. Okay.

Rip Stalvey:

And that's a good thing for you to have going, particularly when it's hot weather gets'em to consume more water. Yeah. Let's see. Joy says, I have noticed my chicks. Having extra light makes them flighty. You betcha. Yep.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. It's amazing how many people think chicks need all this intense lighting, right? All this. Bright. Yeah. Bright lights. And when you get'em down to, like I said, 10 foot candles. Again, download that app and get'em down to 10 foot candles. And I'm gonna look and see if I can get the app for you. So

Rip Stalvey:

you can also look for a for photographer's app for your camera too, that, that will read the temperature of the light and the whole nine yards.

Jeff Mattocks:

So the app is just called Lux. Okay. I don't know if anybody can see on my phone. There we go. LUX yellow icon. LUX? Yep. Okay. I just look for a free light meter, and it's measuring it in here in my room right now I'm in 13 and a half foot candles. Okay. But it, it gives you readings. You can switch it from lux to foot candles. It gives you the max, the minimum, the average. So if you want to pay for an ad free version, it's gonna cost you money. But I got that one for free. Just took me the time to download it.

Rip Stalvey:

And it's a handy tool to have. Very handy tool to have. It is. Well,

Jeff Mattocks:

And like I said, I was sitting in Kelly's chicken house, and I downloaded that thing and I'm sitting there and we were we were like 400 foot candles between four and 500 foot candles.

And oh,

Jeff Mattocks:

It was a greenhouse plastic cover. Okay. And it was letting you know, so on those sunnier days, you know that light was coming right in there.

Rip Stalvey:

I imagine So. Wow. Okay. Put sunglasses on. Yeah,

Jeff Mattocks:

so it's,

Rip Stalvey:

I don't know if we've got any more comments. I think we've got through'em. Joy says she has been doing daylight and shutting some birds on sunny days. No extra light. Good deal.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah, and Kelly chimed in and he said that you know the break sunny, windy days, you make his foul high strung. So they get pretty, yep. Pretty crazy.

Rip Stalvey:

Indeed. Folks, that gets us down to the closeout of another show. I have enjoyed it. I hope you have too. I hope Jeff has. But I always enjoy this show. That was

a short show. I know. Was that really an hour? Is that timer right?

Rip Stalvey:

One hour, two minutes, and 56 seconds. 57 seconds. When we get questions. The right and left bandwidth that makes great shows, but it also makes it go fast.

Jeff Mattocks:

And you keep pushing my buttons about, feeding water and

Rip Stalvey:

me

Jeff Mattocks:

grit and yeah. Thanks buddy. Thanks buddy.

Rip Stalvey:

Before we go I've got a little quote that I want to share with you. Just so you know, that Jess's not the only ones that pushes buttons, but this one hit me today and I thought I'm gonna write that down and share it with everybody. If you try to raise poultry the way the masses on the internet tell you to, you'll eventually learn that the M is silent. That wraps up our deep dive into the best practices for brooding baby chicks. Remember, getting things done right during those first critical weeks lays the foundation for happy, healthy, productive birds. If you found today's live stream helpful, be sure and follow up with us for more poultry keeping tips on one of our Facebook groups.

Alex:

Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast. Don't forget to checkout our website at w w w dot, The Poultry Keepers Podcast, dot com, for more great tips, information, and help so you can raise your best flock ever. Be sure to drop us a note and tell us about your birds. We hope you have a great time enjoying your birds and we'll be back next Tuesday.

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John Gunterman

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Mandelyn Royal

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Rip Stalvey

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