Poultry Keepers Podcast

Coop Design Secrets-Part 2

• Rip Stalvey, Jeff Mattocks, and Carey Blackmon • Season 3 • Episode 143

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Think your chicken coop is “good enough”? What Jeff reveals in this episode will change the way you look at every part of your coop—from the floor under their feet to the air they breathe. Most poultry keepers focus on predators, bedding, or heat… but the real secrets that make coops safe, healthy, and long-lasting are hiding in plain sight.

In this episode of Poultry Keepers Podcast, Rip, Carey, and poultry nutrition expert Jeff Mattocks break down the most misunderstood parts of coop design. You’ll learn why insulation isn’t necessary (even at –30°F), how poor airflow silently harms your birds long before you smell ammonia, and why choosing the wrong flooring can invite bumblefoot, mud problems, and rapid coop deterioration.

They also dig into practical setup strategies: coop orientation, shade vs. sun, rooftop ventilation, predator-proofing, choosing between DIY and ready-made coops, and how to avoid the biggest mistake new keepers make—underbuilding and falling victim to chicken math.

If you’ve ever wondered why some coops stay clean, dry, odor-free, and predator-proof—and yours doesn’t—this episode gives you the missing pieces.

listen now to uncover the design flaws most flock owners never notice… until problems show up.

FREE WORKBOOK:
Download the Coop Design Workbook with ventilation calculators, square-footage guidelines, and referenced materials inside the Poultry Keepers 360 Facebook Group, Files section.

Visit www.thepoultrykeeperspodcst.com to listen now.

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Alex:

Welcome to the Poultry Keepers Podcast where we bring you trustworthy poultry informatioin to help you and your birds succeed. In today's episode Jeff, Carey and Rip conclude their discussion on Coop Design Secrets. Let's pick things up right where we finished last week.

Rip Stalvey:

What about insulation? Jeff do coops need to be insulated. I'll give you a hot button issue here. They don't need to be insulated. Really? You like those? They

Jeff Mattocks:

they do not. There's no need to insulate'em. And even when I visited Kelly Geer in Saskatchewan it's an uninsulated coop in, in like north central Saskatchewan. So seeing like minus 30, degrees is still not an issue for the birds. If you have bedding on the ground, if you have enough bedding on the ground to keep their feet insulated and you've got a good roost bar for'em to get up off the ground at night, okay, they can tolerate it. You know these people that drive me crazy thinking that, oh my God, it's gonna be 40 degrees. I gotta do something for my chickens. No, just keep their feet dry and give them a happy place to sleep and they'll be fine. Okay.

Carey Blackmon:

I saw one today. I saw a comment where someone had said they went outside and their chickens were shivering. They could tell it so they wouldn't bought'em a heater. And I was like, you're farm your rules. Okay.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah.

Carey Blackmon:

The only thing that I've got heated right now, okay, is they're not, I have some baby pigs and I got a way for them to stay warm. Uhhuh, they don't, their most of theirs though is the bedding and the mama. But they don't need a heater either. Not in your climate. Yeah. We saw in the twenties the other day. Yeah. They're still

Jeff Mattocks:

fine. They're still fine. Don't worry. They know how to stay warm. It's part of their instinct. And

Rip Stalvey:

I've seen wild hogs down here with pigs in, in cold winter months, and you'd see the little two or three day old pigs when the temperatured be. 25 to 30 degrees and just running around just fat and happy. Okay, I'll,

Carey Blackmon:

I'll get rid of it then.

Jeff Mattocks:

I didn't and you said the right word. So a so's milk. And we're not talking here talking about pigs, but a pig's milk right. Is very high in fat and very high and energy, and that's why it helps them get through it then. As long as that piglet Yeah. It's got the energy to do it right.

Carey Blackmon:

Okay.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah, really. If you were in total confinement and you were a little sparse on bedding, you could put a heat lamp in the corner for'em in a protected area, but. No, I have, so

Carey Blackmon:

I have so much bedding that I had to raise the heat up just to make sure that the bedding didn't catch on fire.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah, they don't need it. But

Carey Blackmon:

I, it was gonna get in the twenties, so I didn't know they. Now they're a week old.

Rip Stalvey:

I love Rob Garren's comment. I guess I need some pig milk for myself this winter. Yeah. I don't know where you it. I don't where I don't know

Jeff Mattocks:

anybody milking a pig, but No, it'll do it. You can do it. Hey, look, people do everything these days. I know. You can milk an almond, right? Why can't you milk a pig?

Rip Stalvey:

There you go.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah.

Rip Stalvey:

Sue Dobson said she rigs her pop doors. So they pull open from the outside.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah, that would make a lot of sense.

Rip Stalvey:

But

Jeff Mattocks:

you don't wanna have to, it goes back to

Carey Blackmon:

that work smarter, not harder. Speaking of, I saw some pictures that she sent me where she had finished her coops up after she got the Livestock Conservancy grant. And they look nice. They look nice. Yeah. They're nice and tall. She did that and they look really good.

Rip Stalvey:

They're top notch. Top notch. Jeff, what about floor construction? What's your thoughts there? And I know it's gonna very. From geographic location to geographic location.

Jeff Mattocks:

Personally, I would never have a solid floor. And I'll tell you what, with the modern poultry flooring the way they've designed the plastic flooring with the openings in it, that would be the only way I'd go. Yeah. I saw lawyer voting for me to milk pigs, but that's all right. That's all right.

Carey Blackmon:

Jeff that I think I've done worse is not that expensive.

Jeff Mattocks:

It's not and the longevity of it is amazing, right? I can show you poultry houses with floor in it for 20 years. So it's built it's built for it, right? And there's multiple different kinds. You can get stuff that's snapped together. It makes a floor. You put it over a two by four frame then it can drop out. So you can actually have a catch pan for the droppings. Underneath to make clean out a lot easier as well. When you want to clean it, hitting that with a pressure washer, soap, and water it, you're not gonna worry about rotting or anything else. Now, if you don't want to do like the PVC, the plastic flooring, I get it. So I would always use pine flooring. I like a soft wood. And usually I would use one by ones and leave a three quarter inch gap between them. And birds had really good footing. It also helps, believe it or not, a little bit with ventilation, so you don't get that bad air trapped in there. But the old fashioned style before the fancy plastic poultry flooring would've been. Wood s slotting, generally pine and like a one by one, and spaced appropriately so the birds can tramp through it, right? And then you could go in there with a scraper, periodically knock off the high spots, but you're gonna be replacing wood somewhat frequently, right? It's going three to five years, probably before the urine and the manure or whatever, but. Before you're gonna have to think about replacing some of it, but,

Carey Blackmon:

so I was having some problems with, in one of the areas where I have pens, every time it rained, it would flood and it didn't care. I like how much sand I mixed in there, how much peat moss I mixed in there. It just, it would be a mess and I really hated my bird standing in it. I hated my birds having to stay on the roost to avoid it. So I got a couple pieces of that stuff and made it to where they have a two foot by five foot section, which these pens are five foot wide, so it comes out two feet where the birds can get there, they can walk around, they can roost on it, whatever they want to do, but they're out of the muck when. It happens and they seem to really like it.

Jeff Mattocks:

Look, I cannot stress enough how important a dry, they're dry feet, right? Keeping their feet dry. Even in the summertime, even when it is, spring, fall, whatever, and muddy, they gotta have a place they can go because that moisture just like our skin, if you get your hands. In water or moist for too long, or your feet in water moist too long, it softens the skin. It's just giving me a prime opportunity for some type of injury to allow bumblefoot to catch up and get in there. So it just keep their feet dry.

Rip Stalvey:

We talked around ventilation a little bit. But Jeff, give us your quick thoughts, A quick rundown on ventilation. I know we want to do it because of the moisture and the ammonia buildup, but where do you place the vents to bring air in? To take air out?

Jeff Mattocks:

I always place the vents up in the peak because I, I don't want air moving directly where the bird is, right? So I'm positioning them above where the bird will either be roosting whatever, wherever the bird's living. I want it, a good two to three feet above them and, I wish more people would invest in not everybody has electric, but I, I wish they'd invest in a, a hundred dollars bathroom exhaust fan for the one end. And put it on a timer so it runs five or six times a day, calculate your cubic feet right. And figure out how long it needs to run. The fan will tell you if it's a hundred CFM or whatever it is, it'll have a rating on it. And then you need to have an inlet vent and you need to have an exhaust. So you use the bathroom fan as the exhaust and set it up on an amount automatic timer to run. And you should have a 100% air exchange every six or six times a day about every four hours. But it's most critical actually, like if you're putting it in the roosting area, because in the run they're gonna be mostly wire and open air, so I'm not worried about there, but where they're roosting, confined space, roost, nest boxes, things like that. I need to get that air exchanged. And if people are paying attention, there's a lot of manure underneath that roost. That seems to be their favorite place right before, right when they wake up in the morning, right? They're gonna dump out and get a fresh start. And that's where it was for my birds anyway. 70 to 80% of the manure that was deposited in a day was under the roost. So if you're doing roost bars, you know that should be your heavy spacing. Now if you're a morning feeder versus an afternoon, that may not be true. But I was an afternoon feeder, I like to feed one to two hours before the sun went down, so I would get a lot more manure under the roost while they were sleeping or up on the roost at night. Just depends, they gotta have air.

Carey Blackmon:

Oh, let me ask this. Let's say I've got a nice big open run and I built a shelter for them that's got a two foot doorway for them to come. That's out of the, run into that roof bars everywhere and up at, right at the under the roof line. I got like a two inch gap. For natural flow, will I get enough flow from the wind or do I really need to try to put in some type of, even if it's a slow moving fan that's solar powered do I still need to put in some kind of fan to help move the air?

Jeff Mattocks:

You should put in something. The wind doesn't always blow. You cannot depend on natural air movement. You have times of the year, like right now, we've got plenty of wind. I wouldn't worry about my exhaust fan. And I wouldn't, if I had my coop set up right, I wouldn't worry about airflow at all. Yeah. There's days, where there just is dead calm. So you're not gonna, you don't have anything consistent. To guarantee that you're getting that air exchange that you need on a daily basis. And it doesn't take long for ammonia to build up. Yeah. No, I don't take long at all. So by the time you can smell it, it's already too late. Yeah. If you're gonna, if you're gonna be home every day and hanging out with your chickens and you can do that game time decision, if you're gonna run the fan or not run the fan, that's fine. The fail safe for me is to put it on a timer, get a pin timer. And just let it run. Yeah. Even if it's a windy day and you wasted, 15 cents of electricity, at least you were on the safe side instead of the negligence inside. But

Rip Stalvey:

I love this comment from the roost. If your chicken coop stinks, you don't have adequate ventilation.

Jeff Mattocks:

It shouldn't stink either. That's

Carey Blackmon:

very true.

Rip Stalvey:

That's an easy

Carey Blackmon:

way to

Rip Stalvey:

put it.

Jeff Mattocks:

You either don't have enough bedding or you don't have enough airflow.

Rip Stalvey:

That's, and I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here and I see it a lot, particularly in the pre-made coop. You can buy where their ventilation consists of these little round holes drilled in the end walls or around it just a little two inch holes. Folks, you can't get enough airflow through those things. I'm sorry. You really can't. I prefer a long

Carey Blackmon:

strip and that, to me that's like trying to breathe while somebody's choking you. Yeah, exactly. Will it function? Yes. Is it adequate? No.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah,

Carey Blackmon:

but, and it won't last for a while.

Jeff Mattocks:

The people building these things are not the people who are using them. So they don't fully understand. That's true. They're not listening to our show. They don't. And then even if they did put, probably

Carey Blackmon:

don't even have chickens,

Jeff Mattocks:

right? If they did put adequate ventilation in there. Now the chicken huggers out there, the chicken mamas that are worried about putting blankets on their chickens and keeping'em warm at 40 degrees, right? They're gonna think, oh, that's too much air on'em. They're gonna block holes anyway, just, yeah, they, they need air. Air is more important than temperature and I don't know how to get that through people's heads. Okay. Exactly right. Air quality is a lot more important, now there's some breeds that are shy on feather, they have less feathers. Like your hard feathered birds don't have the same insulation capacity as your softer feathered birds. They weren't necessarily built, they didn't come from a region of the world where it ever really got cold. You might wanna do some type of protection for them. I'm not saying coddle them or get a heater, but you may want to, set up your coop a little bit differently cause they don't have the insulation factor that, you

Rip Stalvey:

know, a

Jeff Mattocks:

Rhode Island red would have.

Rip Stalvey:

Jeff, I've raised modern games for a while. And they're very tight feathered. There's not a whole lot of insulation there. Yeah. But as long as those birds were in a draft free situation, they were happy. Even when we'd get temperatures down 25 on below that.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. If you keep your right, if you can block the wind, and give them a dry place to be, they're gonna be happy. They just don't, as long as it ain't drafty, and blowing rain on'em or something, they'll be fine.

Rip Stalvey:

Yep. Got some comments here Owen, that Tyson Dallas wants to know. So you don't use any bedding with the poultry floors?

Jeff Mattocks:

No, you don't need to. You can put some shavings on'em if you want. It's not gonna hurt. I would use a medium flake shaving. Something like a peanut hall, if you far enough in the south that you can get bag peanut halls, they'll work. But smaller bedding, like the small stuff, a lot of it's just gonna fall right through the floor. I would not be using a straw hay or anything big in course'cause it's just gonna defeat the purpose of the poultry flooring. It's already slotted to allow manure to get to drop right down through it.

Rip Stalvey:

Sue's also got a good point here. Ventilation is so important. It keeps him from getting frostbite. Yeah,

Jeff Mattocks:

it does actually. People don't, they don't believe it, but it, they don't grasp it. If you bottle'em up. And they're living in a higher humidity environment between body moisture and the moisture coming off of the manure and different other forms of moisture. But the higher the humidity in their living space, the quicker they'll actually frostbite. Yeah. So she's a hundred percent right.

Rip Stalvey:

Absolutely. Got one more here. You can buy solar powered fans and we were talking about that a little earlier and he's thinking about doing that. And particularly if you're in a situation where you don't have electrical close enough to your coop, that. That's a good way to go. I would recommend that. Absolutely.

Jeff Mattocks:

I would check the CFMs and make sure that they're gonna do the job. I might even go a little further on Tyson's, where, if you had a deep cycle battery that you could put an inverter on and still have your solar panel to charge your battery, that might be a better way to go, Tyson just saying you might,

Carey Blackmon:

well. Something like that, you could move the solar panel over because if your coops are like mine, I like, mine's in the shade. I've got, I like from my run, I like for everything to be in the shade. It's not always possible, but if you only have that number one, if it's just got a solar panel on it, it's only gonna run during the daytime. Yeah, your chickens are in there pooping all night. Probably not in the daytime as much'cause they're out roaming around the run and all that good stuff. Because I thought about that too.'cause I like for stuff to be automated and, I don't want to have extension cords running all over the place. But they are getting cheaper.

Jeff Mattocks:

Those list, those lithium phosphate deep cycle batteries that you had showed me and I've seen'em before.

Carey Blackmon:

Oh yeah, they're great.

Jeff Mattocks:

They're getting realistic and, if you hook those to a solar charger and you put an inverter on it. And a timer. Actually, you wouldn't even need the inverter. You wouldn't have to have one 10.'cause if you consider using, no, you get a DC fan. What? And a camper. Where you have a, like camper exhaust fan for the bathrooms in there, you can get it. 12 volt exhaust fan. Yep. That's not a problem. And you can run it because you lose extra, you lose wattage going through the inverter. Inverters are not truly efficient. And so you're gonna lose some of your voltage, some of your wattage there. But yeah, solar to a smaller, 100, 200 cranking amp lithium phosphate probably to the job. And again like you said, we're worried about the confined space. So that's gonna be the roosting area, nest box area. And if those are tied together, then we can exhaust with one, with the one fan. And they're only really in there from sunset till sunrise. Okay? So if I can get two to three runs, fan runs while they're in there, then you know we're in good shape.

Rip Stalvey:

Okay. Rob's got an interesting question here. Do chickens poop at night when they're sleeping?

Jeff Mattocks:

I haven't stayed up to watch, but I believe they do. Yes. So

Carey Blackmon:

I was gonna say I've never seen them think, oh, let me go over here. They just poop wherever they are.

Rip Stalvey:

If you go back to the coops that are designed with dropping boards. Yeah, they put there to catch the droppings when the birds are asleep. Let's talk a bit we've hit different parts of it, but just to give you some tips on choosing the best location for your coop and how to set it up, how to orient it. I guess I should say, like Jeff was saying, you want. High, well drained ground. You don't want low spots. That puddle, that just breeds disease when it happens. I always stresses them out. Yep. I always prefer to run my coops, orient my cos the long axis east and west that minimize the direct sun through the sidewalls in hot periods. And it can get seriously hot and seriously sunny down here. And that was always helpful. And like Kerry said, he liked shade. Shade helps more than the winter sun in many regions birds tolerate coal better than heat. And that's something we were just talking about. They can handle a lot more cold weather than you think. You want your coop in within good proximity to water, because otherwise you're gonna be toting water in buckets or whatever, and that gets to be a real pain. And if at all possible, you want to have it close to electricity. Because if you're running a fan, it's easy to connect to electricity. If you're lighting your coop during the winter for egg production or whatever reason it's just electricity is a good thing to have handy. And something to keep in mind about predators and a coop. If you haven't had problems with predators yet, just be patient, you will. Yeah. Yeah. And you want to think about maybe bearing hardware, cloth apron around the coop to keep the critters from scratching in and digging in. And you can check and there's a resource in the, something I wanna tell you about in a minute that'll help you. But you can check with your state wildlife agency about tips on how to. Deal with predators. Back when I worked with the Game and Fish Commission, we used to get those questions a lot. A lot.

Carey Blackmon:

And your local game and wildlife folks, they're, you may know what you have in your yard, but they know what's in the area. Period. For the state. Exactly,

Rip Stalvey:

exactly. So they

Carey Blackmon:

can give you ideas not only for the raccoons that you've caught. The other items that you may find, because once you get rid of one predator, it's only time before something else comes to replace it.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. Anymore where we're living, you know you're gonna see them all right? Yep. Eventually you raise chickens long enough, you're gonna see everything. Everything from mice, rats, all the way up to coyotes, neighbors, dogs, you name it, right? It's just, I did

Carey Blackmon:

have I actually had a coyote get close. I've heard'em in the distance for many years. I had one get really close a couple weeks ago. That coyote is no longer with us. My my dogs heart earned their bags of feed,

Rip Stalvey:

and I'll just leave it at that. A another thing about predators, folks don't, I won't say, I'm not gonna say this is a blanket. A lot of folks don't stop to consider aerial predators. Hawks, owls, eagles. They can recap it on the chicken Flo. Yes they can. Yes. And your state Fish and Wildlife Agency can help you deal with that. And that's, you can't kill'em and you can't trap'em or anything like that, but they can help you deal with those issues. So they're a really good resource.

Jeff Mattocks:

And Richard Rick's talking from his law enforcement days of working for the Fish and Game Commission and good old rednecks like me, shoot, shovel and shut up. You don't talk about it. Lead poisoning is universal. It works for everything.

Carey Blackmon:

But you

Jeff Mattocks:

know,

Carey Blackmon:

I didn't say that.

Jeff Mattocks:

If you don't wanna be on the wrong side of the visit and I didn't say I did, I'm just saying, I know what's mine is mine and if you start getting in the wrong place,

Rip Stalvey:

don't monkey with it.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yep.

Rip Stalvey:

Yep. Kerry, here's a good. I'm gonna throw something at you here because I know you deal in them. A DIY build of a coop or a readymade coop, which do you think is better and why?

Carey Blackmon:

There's two sides to look at that. Number one, if you're, if you trust your carpentry skills and have a thousand dollars worth of tools and you, then you may be, oh time, yeah, that's one thing that you really can't buy. If you have a lot of that, then building yourself would be more cost efficient. However, there's companies out there like I, I represent one and I not only resell their product, but I have quite a few of them in my yard. And for me, when I first started going that route, it was a one and done. Because when I put a bird, you get a quality one of those, you put a bird in it. I didn't have to worry about coyotes or anything.'cause things built like a brick hen house

Rip Stalvey:

Fortnite built like Fort Knox.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah. And like I didn't have to worry about it and it 20, 30 minutes to put it together. Literally, it took me longer to figure out how to. Unfold the tarp that went on the top and I say tarp it, the thing is like 20 mils thick or something ridiculous. At one point I had one of the four inch concrete cap blocks actually fall from being flown in the wind and land on one, and it busted three stitches. So it's a little more than just a tarp. It's high quality. But even with that thing's still got chickens in it now, almost a year later, don't even problems. And so spending the money for something like that when you don't have time, don't have tools or you're not somebody that's handy with tools, if you did have them, then I would definitely go that route. If you think you need chicken wire to put together pens. Then I would go that route.'cause chicken wire's not the answer. Chicken wire keeps the chickens in, but it also lets everything else in.

Rip Stalvey:

Yep.

Carey Blackmon:

It is where your time is, where your skillset is and what you have available. Sorry about that.

Rip Stalvey:

That's all right. I wanna throw something out here too. And I think I know I had a real problem with this in that I didn't plan ahead like I should have when I was first started out. Okay. I had started out with a couple of trios of OT bantams, and, pretty soon. The next thing I'm spending most of all of my spare time building coops. So if you build for the future, take all that into consideration. Definitely your oxide definitely may be small now, but it may be large in a year or two. And you wanna be sure to add plenty of vent capacity when you're doing construction just for that reason.

Carey Blackmon:

Well, and like earlier when Jeff was talking about how he really recommended at least 10 square feet per bird, I had somebody ask me the other day and I told them that, a minimum of 15 to 20. They were like everything I read on the internet says this. I said, yep. And you're right. Everything you read on the internet says 10, but here's why you need 15 or 20. There's a little thing called chicken math, and when chicken math turns into chicken algebra, you don't want a toxic environment. So if you take what you're gonna build it for. And multiply that by about one and a half to two. That's a good place to start. And like Bud said, building your own is a great reason to buy tools. If any guy ever or gal needed a reason to buy those tools. But if you don't know how to safely operate'em, go with the built one.

Speaker 5:

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Carey Blackmon:

Because you can't take care of your chickens walking around like this. You, you can't feel the breast, right? You can't take the kes. It's just not the same.

Rip Stalvey:

Hey guys, that gets us down to the end of our outline here, but it, Jeff, you have anything else you want to add to what we've already been talking about?

Jeff Mattocks:

I was gonna reiterate and Sue did here, should build bigger than you need. Because of the chicken math thing, when you go through, if people open up that workbook that you provided on the groups right, and they start figuring it out, right? Inevitably a chicken person lies to themselves. They're in a state of denial. They say, I'm gonna have eight chickens and eight chickens only. I guarantee that eight turns into 10 and 10 turns into 12. And before you know it, you got 20. Just like always build bigger than you need. I was gonna say, and add on to what Carrie was saying, rule of thumb is give yourself an extra 25 to 50% over and above what you thought you were gonna need. Absolutely. It's easier to overbuild it and make it too big the first time and not need it. Than it is to go back and rebuild it, to make it, the size you ended up being. Okay. So they won't complain

Carey Blackmon:

about having too much room? They will not, no, they will not, but they may cause problems if they don't.

Rip Stalvey:

Carrie, you got anything you wanna chip in there?

Carey Blackmon:

No, that was the main things.

Rip Stalvey:

Okay.

Carey Blackmon:

And I do have some. But it's part of, people are gonna have tune in a couple weeks. Yeah. It's part of, to get that part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Because it is, I've been building an ad in myself and there's a lot of things that I wondered about that we had talked about and part of this may be my fault for this series of show, but I feel like there's a lot of people that are at a stage in life where they either want to get a couple or a couple hundred.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. Rob's reaffirming. You know what we were just saying? His wife said 15 and he don't even know how many he has, so he can't get point me that I could,

Carey Blackmon:

mine told me I could get a few because eggs were expensive.

:

It

Rip Stalvey:

worked. Yeah. Yeah. I just started to say whatever works. Whatever works. Yeah. Hey folks, we appreciate you joining us tonight for this Poultry Keepers live. We have created a workbook based around this session we have done tonight. And it has some calculations in there that you can use to make sure you've got enough square feet to make you sure you've got enough square inches of ventilation and all that good stuff. There's also a page in there that lists some of the references I came across in putting the show together. So if you want a copy, you can get it free by going to the Poultry Keepers 360 Facebook group. It's in the file section and you can download your copy or more than copies, more than one copy. And please if you enjoy the show today, we'd encourage you to subscribe to it on YouTube. And you can set your notifications. You'll get notified every time we do a show.

Alex:

That concludes this episode of the poultry keepers podcast. What was your biggest take away from this show, drop a comment and let us know. Have you ever found yourself saying I wish I had known this before setting up my coop? Besure to join us next Tuesday when we'll be talking about 5 Coop Setup Secrets that will give you a neat, clean, bird-friendly coop that will keep your birds happy, healthy, and productive. Until then keep learning, keep improving, and keep enjoying the birds you love!

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John Gunterman

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Rip Stalvey

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