Poultry Keepers Podcast

5 Hidden Coop Mistakes That Are Hurting Your Birds-Part 1

• Rip Stalvey, Jeff Mattocks, and Carey Blackmon • Season 3 • Episode 144

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Discover the real secrets behind a clean, productive, low-stress chicken coop that keeps your birds happy, healthy, and stress-free. In this episode of The Poultry Keepers Podcast, Rip Stalvey, Jeff Mattocks, and Carey Blackmon reveal the five coop setup choices that have the biggest impact on flock health, egg quality, and ease of management. These aren’t the tips you find on Pinterest—these are the practical, experience-backed methods used by lifelong poultry keepers. 

In Part 1, you’ll learn how the right roost design, nest-box setup, and coop interior layout can instantly reduce mess, prevent squabbles, protect feet, increase egg cleanliness, and make daily chores faster and easier. You’ll also hear real-world tips on roost height, materials, spacing per bird, discouraging nest-box sleeping, and the surprising role darkness and privacy play in encouraging clean, well-shaped eggs. 

If you want a coop that practically runs itself, and a flock that stays healthier with less work, this episode lays the foundation. Whether you’re a brand-new backyard keeper or a seasoned poultry enthusiast looking to refine your setup, these insights will help you build a coop that works with your birds—not against them.

Watch Part 2 next week for the remaining secrets and a full breakdown of bedding choices, deep-litter methods, and how to reduce coop labor without sacrificing flock health!

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Alex:

Welcome to The PoultryKeepers Podcast. In this episode Rip, Jeff, and Carey share the five secrets for the best coop setup to keep your birds productive, happy, and healthy. so let's dive right in.

Rip Stalvey:

Tonight we're pulling back the curtain on the biggest secrets hidden inside your backyard coop. These are the things new poultry keepers don't always learn from store-bought books or Pinterest pictures. I'm talking about the interior setup choices that makes the difference between a coop that's easy to manage. And one that becomes a chore, you dread doing. By the end of the night, you'll know the five most impactful changes that you can make inside your coop. They're going to reduce mess, protect your birds, stretch your feed budget. And keep your flock healthier all year long. These five secrets can transform your entire experience, trust me. And most folks have never heard them explain the way we're about to share them. So guys, I, I'd say let's get started now. Let's start with, let's start with Roosts.

:

Why do

Rip Stalvey:

roost matter?

Carey Blackmon:

Anybody? I think roost matter because their chickens originated from jungle fowl. And their, their natural instinct is to light up in a tree. And having a roost for them to rest on, is, I guess it's like peaceful or home. It's more natural than them standing in wet, cold poop floating with bacteria all the time. When, like right in Alabama, the last few days, we've gotten a stupid amount of rain. Because all my birds have a roost, they're able to not stand in what happens until I can go shovel a truckload of, style pellets in there.

Rip Stalvey:

Exactly. I think one of the things that roost bring about is a nighttime stability in the f. They're not always squabbling like they would be if they were just out on the ground. Yeah. How do they help foot health of our birds

Jeff Mattocks:

helps our foot, health of our birds a lot. Yeah. They're not, they were never designed to stand in wet environments at all. They're just not they're a dry land. Only short exposures to ground moisture. Yeah. They'll play in a mud puddle for a little bit, but 90% of their time they need to have dry feet. Managing that bedding and even going back to, like the roost thing, my birds would roost in the middle of the day. If they were if the weather wasn't great or. It's whatever, I would, my flock would get up on the roost, in the hen house. If the weather was fit or whatever they were out, doing. But it gives'em a mental security, a secure feeling to get up on that roost. They were just they evolved that way for a reason. But yeah, we gotta keep the, yeah. They just, I also think it.

Rip Stalvey:

It helps a little bit with air circulation around the birds.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. But it was strange how they all pick their own spot. They do their own thing. And you, they don't they don't like being changed. Once that order is set, don't go in there and move them around. That's just not gonna, not, it's funny to do that. Yeah, it's a good way to start a fight, right? Things don't work out well for somebody. Even in the dark. They can tell if there's the wrong person beside them.

Carey Blackmon:

Look, I have went in and in the evenings, I use my green headlamp and I'll go after it's got dark, check'em out, look at their legs, make sure everything's good. Because really for me, with my busy life, that's about the only time I have time. And if I don't sit them back in the same spot. Oh yeah. They'll start clucking, like letting me know how I ruin their knot. Oh yeah. And then the whole yard will be clucking. Oh yeah. Until I pick the bird up and put'em back in the right spot. I'm like, it's dark back here. You're not supposed to be able to see.

Jeff Mattocks:

They

Carey Blackmon:

know. They know.

Jeff Mattocks:

They know. They know.

Carey Blackmon:

Yep.

Jeff Mattocks:

I don't know how they know, but they know,

Rip Stalvey:

right? Jeff, and I know you're good with this, how high is the ideal height for a roost to be above the floor of the coop?

Jeff Mattocks:

So your roos definitely needs to be higher than your nest box openings, right? So this discourages them from sleeping in their nest boxes. And if anybody thinks a hand sleeping in a nest box is a good idea. I'm sorry. You're wrong. Okay. You do not want that to happen unless you like washing poopy eggs, right? Not my idea. Yeah,

Carey Blackmon:

I was gonna say, unless you like cleaning out

Jeff Mattocks:

nest boxes, just from observation at my place now breeds, the breeds vary. We had some Rams, we had Orpingtons, black o orps, we had the barnyard special, three foot off the ground worked really well for my flock. Now, if I had heavier birds and mine were the hatchery variety of those breeds, right? So they were not the big true heavyweights. Two and a half to three foot is about all you can expect a larger foul to really get up and be comfortable. But, at least as long as they're 18 inches. Between somewhere between 18 inches at foot and a half to three foot. I would say, and that depends on your breed. Some people like to set up shorter bars, like one at a foot, one at two foot, and then they can hop their way up there and that's fine. Don't count the lower bars as roo space. And I made my roos bars all level. Okay. They were, every one of'em was at three foot. Because my first Bruce bars, I set up on that whole, an angled ladder set up. And all I had was a bunch of fighting. The Americana had to be at the top, and if they weren't at the top right, they were just beating the piss out of somebody. They were just brutal. Even though they were on the smaller side of the flock, weight wise, they're feisty. They were just, yeah, they were really feisty. I had two of'em that would go in way early before Sunset to ensure they had the highest spot on the roost. That's funny. It's funny for you. It was not funny for me.'cause then the fighting begins, it sundown who's gonna be at the top? So I just made them, that was my one and only act of socialism. I made them all equal at three feet okay. That makes sense. And it took away all that aggression for top spot.

Rip Stalvey:

I like the roost all on the same level for one reason. To me it just seemed like it was easier to clean out from under'em. Oh yeah.

:

Yeah,

Jeff Mattocks:

definitely. So I put my roost, so they were all connected by support stringers. And then I put'em on a hinge with a counterbalance so I could actually lift it up out of the way, right? And the counterweight would hold it in place and then I could clean out without bending over. I could get in there with my pitchfork and do what I had to do. So

Rip Stalvey:

what about metal roost? Yes or no? No. No metal, no

Carey Blackmon:

PVC

Jeff Mattocks:

actually, I like softwood actually. And I don't even like oak and maple or hardwood. I prefer a soft buy it at the store, a soft pine. And usually now the dimensional lumber at a store like Lowe's or Home Depot is all lo lolly pine. So the growth rings on it are really wide, right?'cause it's a fast growing tree. And when you do that wood's even softer than like an old growth pine. So I want something that they can claw into, right? They can dig their toenails into and hold on. So yeah,

Rip Stalvey:

I always like to round over the top edges on the two by fours. It just felt like it was a little bit of a more natural, fit for the bird's foot.

Jeff Mattocks:

Oh, for sure.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah. That makes it more like a tree limb, right?

Jeff Mattocks:

And I think some of the best tree limbs I've seen are people actually go out and cut down, two inch type saplings, right? And they'll use those as their roof barks and they'll leave the bark on them, right? Yep. Because that's your grip point. That's your anti-skid, so to speak. And it works really good.

Carey Blackmon:

So I do that in my grow outs. I'll find some tree limbs or I will make some tree limbs that don't need to be up anymore, like low hanging trees in the backyard and stuff like that. I'll take those limbs and I'll put'em in the grow out. And use the wire to hold'em in place, or a couple of scrap pieces of two by four to hold'em up so they're stable. But I've used those for roosting areas quite a few times. They like it. They also like ball horses.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. If you have access to the right kind of saplings or limbs, then. I didn't know back when we had our flock, I have a really nice spruce tree in the backyard. I could have gone out there and limbed it and got perfect two inch, inch and a half, two inch limbs that were straight and used those for Broce bars. No, I had to make'em right. I went the hard way. I went through all the growing pains of let's make'em on an angle and let's make'em various heights and Right.

Carey Blackmon:

Oh, see when Rip talked about how he liked to round off the edges on two by fours, that just tells me how long it's been since he's built some, he built, he must, he had to have built them right when he built them. Because them things are rounded now. Because that's less actual wood they have to put in on it.

Rip Stalvey:

I like'em a little more rounded than what they come from the store.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah. Okay. I know the way they are now looks like they got, had a quarter inch router bit go over the sides. Yeah. They

Jeff Mattocks:

chafer all the edges now. They don't leave'em rough.

Rip Stalvey:

What about space per bird on a roost? Depends on the breed.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. It's pretty

Rip Stalvey:

critical.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. I had four to six pound birds and I allowed six to eight inches per bird. So I would say you're probably, if you're looking for a ratio, like one and a half inch is of linear per pound of chicken. Or the other way around. So pound of chicken. So like I said, I had six inches. Yeah, it's one and a half per pound of chicken. So yeah, I would've six inches for a four pound chicken, eight inches for a six pound chicken, that way. And they were comfortable, but I also always had 20% more roof space than I actually had birds, right? I never counted every inch because there's some birds that don't want anyone to sleep next to'em, and they have to have their own space. So you always want a surplus of roosting bar space.

Rip Stalvey:

Yeah. That's a really smart move. Yeah.

Jeff Mattocks:

You know how chicken meth works though, right? You make enough roosting space for 20 chickens and before you know it, you have 30 and you're out, so Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You might as well just figure that overage right at the beginning because it's gonna happen. It's an illness that all chicken people get at some point, right? To have too many.

Rip Stalvey:

And some of us on occasion relapse. Earlier we were talking about make sure your roost were always above your nesting box, but also you don't want'em over your feeders or your waterers. No, because you're gonna create a mess that's not very sanitary because those birds, they like to poop at night and they can poop a lot.

Jeff Mattocks:

If you're doing that, if you're doing the afternoon feeding, like I recommend. Then if you're doing a limited amount or controlled feeding and you feed in the afternoon one to two hours before sundown, then for sure there's going to be good Minorca deposits under the roost the following morning. Gonna happen.

Carey Blackmon:

You have a little mound. Yeah. Because they, they get in the same spot on the roosting pole.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. But it makes it a whole lot easier to clean up. Because it's gonna be in a nice little pile. Easy to grab with a pitch for,

:

Yep. And

Jeff Mattocks:

toss it. Toss it. It is not scattered all over the yard. There is a method to my insane this to feed in the afternoon that a majority of the chicken poop will be under the roost where it's easy to clean and maintain.

Rip Stalvey:

My old minter said, and we were talking about squabbling between birds, but Mr. Reese always said a good roof set up prevents 80% of the nighttime drama inside the coup.

Jeff Mattocks:

Amen to that.

Rip Stalvey:

Let's move along to nesting setup because a good nesting setup is going to boost your egg quality because you're gonna be cleaner automatically. Yep. And I know Jeff you recommend a box size of 12 by 12, or an average size layer. Now

Jeff Mattocks:

that would be the larger size, like a standard bread, yes. Rhode Island red, a true Rhode Island red. Yes. Now, for people with hatchery birds that only weigh four to six pounds, four or five pounds, you can get by with an eight inch wide nest is 12 high and 12 deep. But you don't want extra space in a nest box. Okay. The biggest mistake I see are nest boxes are. Too big and they can accommodate more than one chicken at a time.

Carey Blackmon:

Oh yeah.

Jeff Mattocks:

And that creates problems in itself.

Rip Stalvey:

We actually, that's the picture I used for our YouTube art was a picture of nest boxes and several of those nest boxes you can see two birds in. And that's just asking for trouble,

Jeff Mattocks:

especially if you don't have curtains on there. Yes. And one of the biggest neglects I see, people don't put curtains on their nest boxes. They don't put the nest boxes in the darkest place of the coop in the morning. So if that between eight and 11, you need to find where it's the darkest corner of your hen house to place those next, and you still need curtains. You want to minimize the amount of light going into that nest box. So

Carey Blackmon:

see in some of my pens, I don't really have shade in the morning. So what I did was I put my, the back of my nest box from where the sun comes up and the front is away from it, and I've got, I used a canvas type material for the cloth shade cloth. And they lock'em pretty

Rip Stalvey:

well. Jeff, you were mentioning one time on one of our shows that you used a what was it? A pond liner?

Jeff Mattocks:

Vinyl right liner. You can get a, you can get like a three or four, a real thin rubber sheeting. If you go to a better end landscaping store that supports backyard fish ponds. So it's a pond liner. You can get pond liner. And pond liner is excellent'cause it holds up to any ammonia smell. It really holds up great to the wear and tear of the hen going in and out. And you can cut it, you can cut it to size and then once you get it, a fastened or attached with, self-tapping sheet metal screws or whatever you choose. Then you come back with a really fresh, sharp utility knife and you cut vertical slits, like those plastic freezer doors, right? And about every inch and a half, don't cut all the way to the top, right? Leave yourself an inch and a half or so from the top. Don't cut all the way through and work straight. And then when you get new pulls that don't know what a nest box is, you can roll or lift those tabs up. And tuck'em in behind and it gives a bigger opening. So when the pull starts thinking about what's a nest box? Where do I need to lay my egg? Things like that, it makes it easier for'em to find them. And then

Rip Stalvey:

once everybody laying, once they start using them, you can take those tabs off and let'em fall right back down and they'll keep

Jeff Mattocks:

using that box. Once they determine that's where they're laying their egg, then you're good.

Rip Stalvey:

Why, and I saw this statement, I thought this would be good to talk about tonight. Why does darkness, calm and height matter to the nest boxes for the birds?

Jeff Mattocks:

Their instinct is to lay their a, in what they feel is a secure location, right? Where a, she wants privacy in her mind, she's building a clutch, right? That she's gonna set on. In a week or so, right? And instinct tells her to go to the darkest place to, to lay her egg, right? That has security to it, walls and so on. And so that's just why they do that now height. They need to be able to stand up in there and turn around, right? And. The bird has to be able to enter fairly comfortably, not a lot of ducking going on, and she needs to be able to go in and turn around. So she's gotta have enough height to do that. Yep. But you want no more extra space, then the bird can go in and turn around. Quit thinking your chicken needs a king size bed. When a twin will do. All right. It just don't.

Rip Stalvey:

Carrie, what is your preference for bedding material in the coop? To keep the eggs clean. So if

Carey Blackmon:

your cl, if the coop is exposed to the ailments and you have a nesting box there, I like to get the pads like they use in the commercial industry that are like AstroTurf. Because it still gives them that natural feel. It's soft. Shavings are really nice. They make a fluffy bed, but any rain gets to'em or anything like that, and they're gonna start breaking down and eventually turn into either a soggy mess or Molt. And you don't want either one. So I use that if it's exposed, if it is inside of a house, I hate to say it, but I really like a straw and hay cause it's soft. And especially in the wintertime, they'll get in there in the mornings when it's really cold. Leave me an egg, get out when it warms up and it's clean.

Jeff Mattocks:

Now this, we've never really talked about this, and I'm gonna share something I learned from a good old boy down in Texas who was keeping like 500 layers in a converted cotton wagon, right? So he took an old cotton wagon, converted it into an egg layer mobile. Perfect. So he kept three to four inches of medium. Pine shavings, medium cut pine shavings, not the extra large. In there. Now he had eight children and all two of them got to go. Two would go to each egg mobile and gather eggs. This is one of the slickest tricks I've ever seen the man do is he had a freshly laundered, sanitized damp washcloth in Ziploc bag and. When he collected eggs, they went directly into the cartons that he was gonna sell them in. So if he reached in and there was by chance a broken egg or a, a Minorca on egg or anything, it got washed immediately and put right into the carton for sale, right? And then they'd reach in there, they'd take out whatever soiled pine shavings, you always kept an extra baler, two of pine shavings in every wagon. You just refreshed it. So he had the least amount of egg washing I've ever seen of any, larger commercial style, egg laying outfit.

Rip Stalvey:

That probably saved him a lot of money.

Jeff Mattocks:

It did. Prior to seeing that firsthand, I was on the same page as Carrie. I always used straw and I got really nice straw, tried to get chop straw so it wasn't too long and fibrous. And I was a straw fan, but I tell you what, after seeing that and the amount of eggs he did not have to wash, yeah, I was impressed.'cause nobody likes washing eggs.

Carey Blackmon:

No. And if you're in a state where you don't have to, that streamlines your efficiency. Huge. Oh lot. And if you're just a backyard person selling them from a farm stand. You pretty much do whatever you want to, as long as you can keep your conscience clean. Yeah, you still

Jeff Mattocks:

need to keep a clean egg, right? And then actually dried on manure or something like that. You want to flick off with your finger. You don't really want to make it wet. Some people go and as soon as you get that wet and you're pushing on it, you're actually pushing it through the pores. And that egg shelf life is gonna be a lot less. So whenever you can just flick it off with your fingernail or something else, but don't get that manure wet until you get the majority of it off with something dry by scraping or, then if you got a little bit of a stain or something, wash it off. But,

Carey Blackmon:

so I've got a. That's designed for washing pots and pans in a commercial setting is like one of those yellow rubber gloves that has a Scotch Bresse pad on it, like made onto it. And I'll use one of those and I'll wear the thumb part out'cause flicking it with your fingernail. My fingernails are extremely thick compared to most people's. And I've actually cracked eggs, which is weird'cause I can drop eggs and they won't crack. But flicking crap they would. So I use that and it works great.

Jeff Mattocks:

Your eggshells are harder than they used to be now too. But anyway.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah, they are.

Jeff Mattocks:

Sue's got the right idea though. It's dogs get any of the eggs that had anno on. But she must have enough eggs to do that,

Rip Stalvey:

she feeds good feed her. Her birds are really good layers too. Carrie was talking earlier about the astro terra flack material. If you go to the store and buy it, it can be pretty pricey, but. Our Lowe's store has a huge big box of remnants and end pieces. Oh yeah. They'll sell that to you, right? They, but that is very reasonably priced. So if you want to try that, hop on down to your local Lowe stores and see if they don't have a box of remnants down there. You can pick through and get what you want. Oh yeah. It's important that you have a perch whip on your nest boxes that gives the bird a place to fly up, to walk down there after they find the nest they want to use and lay their eggs. It just saves a lot of frustration, a lot of dirty eggs and a lot of scattered shavings. But it's, I use it one by four.

Jeff Mattocks:

You gotta have a perra, right? Yeah, a nest box. And a nest box if they don't have perra. And it also should be wooden and something they can grab onto, when they get up there. So

:

before, not wood.

Jeff Mattocks:

They're not wood ducks, it can just fly into a hole.

Carey Blackmon:

I was thinking about that Will Smith movie, where they fly into the alien station. They don't just do that into the nest box. They need a place to hop up to or whatever. Yeah.

Jeff Mattocks:

So you're showing your age now'cause that's the old Independence Day. Yeah. Good movie. I am ba I never go past it ever. Whenever I see it playing.

Rip Stalvey:

Before we move on, I want, I wanna leave our viewers with this. One thing about Nest Box is, remember this, hands don't need fancy, they need privacy.

Carey Blackmon:

Yep. A

Jeff Mattocks:

hundred percent.

Carey Blackmon:

My, the first Nest box that I had in was my reds. Because you can't really find 12 by 12 nest box unless you go hijack some milk crates somewhere. Which do work really well. So what I used was a storage tub up and sue's the one that gave me the idea. She sent me a picture of a storage tub and she had stapled some curtains across the top of it, and I was like. That'll work.

Jeff Mattocks:

Yeah. Before you move on too far from Nest boxes though, we do got a couple questions in the queue.

Rip Stalvey:

Okay. Pop'em up there. Somebody.

Jeff Mattocks:

So Natalie says she has a Jubilee Orpington, I'm, and I'm assuming a standard grid wanted to know if 12 by 12 is large enough and Yes, it would be. Just large enough that is the correct size for a standard bread Orpington.

Carey Blackmon:

Yep. Let's see. Here's one. What size nest box for hatchery. Bantams.

Jeff Mattocks:

I'm guessing you only need six inches wide. Probably 10 inches tall. I still like the 12 inches deep.

Carey Blackmon:

That's a four pound bird, right? No. Shouldn't be that much. No, I know

Jeff Mattocks:

bands are, most of your bantams are about two pounds, give or take a half a pound. So one and a half to two and a half would be a banham class.

Rip Stalvey:

There was one company at one point making a bantams size nest box, but I can't, for the laugh of me to remember what size they were, because that was been 34 years

Jeff Mattocks:

ago. But I would be using a six. Six wide, 10 high, 12 feet. Yep. And that's just maybe a, just enough that they can turn around, but you don't wanna partner in the next box.

Rip Stalvey:

Maybe eight inches if you're talking about coachings and brass and some of those bigger

Carey Blackmon:

of

Rip Stalvey:

your Asia breeds. But yeah, certainly no

Carey Blackmon:

more than that. A lot of people use cat litter boxes, like Sue said, and the ones where the lid kinda is on a hinge. And some people will drill a six inch hole in the top and others will just cut the, cut it at the hinge and staple curtains to the top part of the hinge. And there's all kinds of options. You can make a nest box outta just about anything. Yeah,

Jeff Mattocks:

excuse me. And Rs wants to know, can you break a hen from nesting in the corner? Yes, you can, but you have to go, you have to be in the coop when that hen is going into the corner. And for a few days in a row, you have to pick her up and put her in the nest box. Yep. Okay. The old timers referred to this as walking the flock. So when birds are coming into lay then sometimes you gotta show a pullet where an S box is, right? And you have to literally pick'em up and it may take a week to break the habit, but if she's been doing it now for any length of time, it's gonna be a really hard habit to break because that's her space. The other thing you can do is you can put a very bright, intense light in that corner where she wants to lay, and they don't like that, so she'll quit laying there. Now, that doesn't mean she won't go to another corner, so that's option number two. I'm curious if your nest boxes are too far off the ground. So ideal height for a Nest box is about 16, between 16 and 24 inches to the per trail, depending on the breed. So if it's a heavy breed, you want to be at about 16 inches off the ground to the per trail on the Nest box. And if it's a lighter breed, up to the four pound, five pound range, you can be at 24 up to 24 inches. Birds will start to get lazy if you go much higher than 24 inches. If you go much lower than 16 inches that cast a shadow and encourages them to lay on the floor under the nest box, right? Per trail for Nest Box 16 to 24 inches. People, I, I can't tell you how many chicken houses I go in and they're up at waist high or more. Right. 36 inches. And they're wondering why they're getting all these fluoride because I'm like,'cause your hand don't want to jump that high to layer egg. That's not just

Carey Blackmon:

You don't wanna bend

Jeff Mattocks:

over to get'em. Yeah. One of you is gonna lose, right? But if she lays it on the floor, you're bending over further to pick that egg up than if you had it at 16 or 20 inches. Amen.

Carey Blackmon:

I like what Kelly says. Put the nest box in the corner, put the nest box in the corner and get her used to laying in it. You can do that and then move it.

Rip Stalvey:

Yep. Got any more questions?

Jeff Mattocks:

I

Rip Stalvey:

think that's it. Okay. Before we go on I do want to. Thank our sponsor here. So let me, we would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Fertrell Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keepers 360 live programming. Fertrell has been a trusted name and sustainable farming and poultry nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high quality natural product aligned perfectly with the values we hold there in our poultry community. Thank you Fertrell for partnering with us to empower poultry keepers everywhere. We're truly grateful for your dedication and support. That is for sure. Okay, moving along here, let's get to secret three, the betting choice that saves you work. Let's compare deep Litter Sand, Pete Moss and Shavings. Jeff, what are your thoughts?

Alex:

Golly, we're out of time already! So, be sure to join us next Tuesday as we finish our discussion of the 5 Coop Setup Secrets. Until then, keep learning, keep improving and keep enjoying the birds you love!

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