Start Chicks Strong-Audio Edition

The first 14 days of a chick's life can shape far more than its early growth. Nutrition, brooder conditions, access to feed and water, lighting, temperature, grit, and opportunities for natural behavior can all influence how those chicks develop.

In this episode of Poultry Keepers 360, Rip Stalvey, Carey Blackmon, and poultry nutritionist Jeff Mattocks take a practical look at what chicks need during this critical early period—and why getting the basics right from the beginning matters so much.

The conversation covers choosing and evaluating chick feed, the importance of amino acids and early nutrition, when and how to introduce grit, brooder setup, access to feed and water, encouraging natural chick behavior, lighting and overstimulation, temperature management, common brooding mistakes, and questions from poultry keepers about their own chicks.

You'll also hear an important discussion about what is happening inside the chick during those first days of life and why some developmental opportunities can't simply be recovered later.

Whether you're preparing for your first hatch or have raised chicks for years, this episode offers practical ideas for taking a closer look at how you start your birds—and how those early decisions can affect the flock they eventually become.

Better decisions begin with better observations.

If you enjoy thoughtful, experience-based poultry information like this, that's what this channel is all about.

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Timestamps and Chapters

 0:00 Welcome & Why the First 14 Days Matter

2:34 Choosing the Right Feed for Baby Chicks

5:28 What to Look for on a Chick Feed Tag

6:38 Dairy Products and Young Chicks

11:19 When Should Chicks Start Getting Grit?

17:25 Early Development: Why There Are No Do-Overs

20:22 Making Feed and Water Easy to Find

21:19 Encouraging Natural Chick Behaviors

24:00 Nutrition and Feather Development

28:50 How Soon Should Newly Hatched Chicks Eat?

34:14 Community Questions & Poultry Keeper Experiences

39:22 Brooder Floors, Bedding & Early Feeding

43:24 Lighting, Stress & Friendly Chicks

46:03 Using Treats Without Replacing Good Nutrition

50:47 Wing Banding & Brooder Questions

56:07 Common Brooding Mistakes to Avoid

56:47 When Chicks Begin Regulating Body Temperature

58:09 Mixing Ages & Raising Chicks with Poults

1:00:33 Water and Electrolytes for Chicks

1:06:25 Choosing a Safe Heat Source

1:08:08 Closing Thoughts

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:23

When I go to a new website and whatever, there we are.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

There we are. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Poultry Keepers 360 Live. And remember, this is where knowledge hatches success. And coming up in just a few minutes, uh, excuse me, coming in a few seconds, we're going to get right to it. You know, whether you're brooding your first batch of chicks or brushing up on the basics, tonight's episode is all about setting your chicks up for success in their most critical stage of life. The first two weeks. You'd be surprised it's not just about growing the size of the chick, but it's also about their physiological development. And we're going to be talking about both of those tonight. And joining me tonight is Kerry Blackman and Jeff Mattis. Good to have you both here, guys. As always. Good to be here. Jeff, how's the uh well, let me phrase it this way. How high is the snow out there where you're at now?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Not very oh really now. Up in the mountains where we were snowmobiling the other day, there was anywhere from eight to twenty feet underneath our feet.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Hey, eight to twenty feet? Yeah, that sounds cold.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Right here where I'm sitting outside my hotel room, there's nothing on the grass.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Hmm. Interesting. You know, so when my sister-in-law lived in Alaska, she would tell me that. And I always thought it was weird because you know, when you think about Alaska, you're like, oh, it's freezing cold all the time. But you know, they they would have heat waves that would get in the low 70s every now and then.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

It actually hit the 90s on a cage. Really? So yeah. That's surprising. You can have a few free days where you'll be in the 90s, but it's only like middle of the day, afternoon, you know, it's not it's not overnight, you know. So interesting. Most mornings you're gonna get up at about 50 degrees.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

But the pictures I used to get from her of like the mountains with the snow caps and the Aurora Barialis pictures, those are just so beautiful. Those those are all real things.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Beautiful. I I hope to see it sometime. Well, guys, how about we start this off with what is the best feed for baby chicks? What's your recommendations, Gary?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

So for baby chicks, and I think me and one of the listeners might have had this conversation in the PK360 group this past week. I am a huge fan, and I always speak in like general, you can find it everywhere type feed when people are asking about recommendations. But I like the 20% Comboch flop maker. And yes, the protein could be a little higher, which there's you know, you can add some breeder supplement, which is another thing that I recommend when using that. But even if you look at them as being a national brand name, when you look at their starter feed, the lysine and methionine levels in their starter is actually lower than what it is in the flop maker, which makes absolutely no sense. But I've noticed that, yeah. But I've seen that, and also the vitamin levels are pretty good. You know, if you give just that to chicks, they will have a little bit of a slower start if you don't put some breeder supplement in with it. But straight off the shelf, available pretty much nationwide, I'm gonna go with that. I do not like anything medicated. That and I heard Jeff just because I know I know he ain't all about that, because the the medicated feeds, especially the ones that use amproleum, that blocks the chicks from using what little bit of thiamine is actually in the feed, which is a very important B1 vitamin that helps with everything from like their metabolic energy, their growth, their development, all kinds of crap. It pretty much blocks it. So keep a clean brooder and don't use medicated feed.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yeah, uh Jeff, what about uh just just a quick sort of down and dirty? What should they be looking for in an analysis on starter feed?

SPEAKER_02 5:45

The quick rundown is 20 to 22 percent protein, looking for at least a 1.1, 1.2 lysine, 0.5 or higher methionine, vitamin A at 7,000, vitamin D at 3,000, vitamin E at 50 I use per pound, calcium should be 1.2, 1.3, phosphorus should be 0.7. Get down to the ingredients. You want to be able to actually know what the ingredients are, and you definitely want some meat protein in there. So those are the top things I'm looking at when I look at a tag or something like that. And you know, I agree with Carrie because the flock maker, most of the Kombach feeds actually give you a green list and tell you corn, soybean meal, right? They tell you exactly what's in them. So while I don't want to, but as a commercial big bucks, you know, type of feed out there, I think right now Combok is winning the race.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

So Jeff, another thing that we and gosh, we've talked about this, I don't know how many times, but about dairy products and how to use them for baby chicks. Could could you expand on that just a little bit? Because no matter how many times we talk about it, these seems people folks just seem to be surprised when we remind them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

So look, you know, I stumbled on this or somebody sent it to me, but you know, my mentor in 1997, you know, had me use what is known as a milk replacement, basically powdered milk and a broiler house, you know, to control coccidiosis. And you know, he was old enough to know, but not when that first article was written in 1925 or 26. But milk, if used correctly, that's the key word, if used correctly, can prevent or treat coccidiosis. Okay, so this is only from my learning, but you know, my observation over the years, but if I do it at day three, day seven, day 14, day 21, day 28, that gets us through the cocidiosis weeks. Okay, and it doesn't block thiamine, as Carrie pointed out earlier. You only want to give them what they'll clean up in about an hour. Now, the first time you serve it, they don't know what it is. So you need to put it in a shiny plate, like a cheap aluminum pie plate that you'd buy at the grocery store. You fill it about half full. Yeah. And it was funny, you know. I we talked about this, you know, just what less than a month or so ago. And and somebody said, Well, I didn't use the shiny plate, so they didn't really know how to come and drink it, right? And it didn't attract them over there. And so they tried to cut a corner there, right? They didn't use the shiny plate. Well, so but once they figure it out, the next time you come back to feed it, they know what it's all about, right? And they're in it. I mean, they're in it, and the only reason you put a half inch in the bottom is so they don't get their downwet, you know, they don't get their feathers in downwet. And so some are gonna jump right in the middle, you know, think it's a kiddie pool and have fun. So we don't want them getting saturated, but it's a great coccidiosis preventative and treatment, and it's not a drug, right? It's all natural. And I know this is way too simple for some people to get their head around it, but it works.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

It does, it really does.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

It works great.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

I mean, if they were writing articles about it in the 20s, you know, it's obviously been done for a while. And if it's not broke now, let me ask this, Jeff. You you were talking about the pie plate and using liquid milk. Would mixing in powdered milk or freeze-dried milk in with their feed, would that work?

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Does it doesn't work as well? Okay, and you know, if there's any poultry nutrition PhDs or vets or anybody out there right now listening, they're shaking their head and they're they're they're thinking I'm crazy, right? And and here's the thing: so people also need to hear this part of it poultry cannot digest lactose, okay? So feeding it every day or feeding too much of it will cause diarrhea and have negative effects. Okay, there's a time and a place, there's a there's the right amount, okay. So just don't get don't, you know, if a little bit's good, a lot is not. So don't do that. Okay, just follow directions, okay. Read the warning label. A little bit's great, a lot is not.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

There was an interesting post on one of the groups, and Jenny said she thinks she surprised me when I asked if sour cream could be used. I hadn't really heard about using sour cream, Jenny, so yeah, I was taken aback a little bit. But uh we all worked it out and all's good that ends well, and I think it did. So thanks, Reginny. We appreciate your comments on the groups. Always, always, always. When this is something else we talk about regularly, so I'm not gonna skip over it again. Uh when should we start chicks on grit?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

I mean I don't wait. You should at least be doing it by day two or day three. Now, I mix mine has the uh grit, Chick starter grit mixed in with the feed at about a two percent ratio. So I I'm not picking it out. They get it from day one, but by day two, day three, they should be getting it. If you want to be safe, start doing it on day three, just like you do the milk, just so you can keep the numbers simple in your mouth. But in my opinion, no more than day three.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that starter, chick starter that you sell, doesn't that already have grit mixed in it? Yes. Oh, okay, okay. So I'm I am right on that.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

All right, so here's the thing if it's mixed in the feed properly, it can start at day one. If you are going to add it as a hand add, then start on day three because they will gorge on those pretty white rocks. Okay, and we're gonna get the ratio in the gut out of balance. That's where the day one's fine if you blend it in, you know, one to two percent of the feed by weight. But if you if you're gonna just free choice it or hand at it, then you want to wait till day three.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, and mine mine is done, it's it's mixed in a commercial mixer. So I don't just you know take a 50-pound bag and dump a little bit in there and shake it up or anything like that, because you know, they they are like kids in a candy store, and they'll wear it out, you know, just like when you put that shiny little pie plate in there, you'll start hearing pinking sounds where their their little beaks are hitting the pan, and it's kind of funny. It is uh redneck entertainment. So for sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Temple says people swear they don't need grit. She says she catches a lot of crap for suggesting it. Even McMurray McMurray has it on their shit care page, which is absolutely right. That all birds need grit.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Well, look, I'll say this. I don't need to stop that crispy cream when the hot now sign is lit up. But I do.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

That's a pretty good analogy.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

I mean, I know people tell Temple you can't fix stupid.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

So that's well, that is very true, too. And I mean, you know, with with the grit thing, will the bird live without grit all of its life? Absolutely. They they do it. Will it live as long of a life as it could? Probably not. One thing that I do know from my own experience is that when you start birds on grit, if you track their feed consumption, it grid alone will lower like 15 to 20 percent. I'd have to go back and look at my numbers when I calculated all of it a couple years ago because you know, I was a real hard head, and I wanted I really wanted to prove Jeff wrong a few years ago. But good luck. My my documentation was not successful, but I do have on a Google sheet exactly how much it was, but it was between 15 and 20 percent less food that they actually consumed over the first six months of their life just by giving grit.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Joy also wants to know. She said her chicks don't want to drink the milk tolo. She's wanting to know if it's okay to mix a little hard-boiled egg yolk in there.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

That is really weird. I mean, Joy has some really unusual things going on.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Her chicks are picky.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

I'm telling you, but she pampers them really bad. So she's only like the second one in 30 years who's told me that. But it it's fine. If you want to, you know, if you want to you know put the hard boiled egg in with it, that's fine. Something to get them started. You know, maybe she's getting the wrong kind of milk. It's gotta be whole, real milk. Okay, no skim, no one percent, two percent, none of that, right? It's gotta be the real deal.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I mean, to be honest, if you could find raw milk, yeah, of course, that that would be ideal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

We missed one from we missed one earlier though. I think we missed a couple of them here. I'm trying to Yeah, here we go. I got one. Esther wanted to know when to switch to grower. Esther, after about a week, you know, start putting a little bit of the grower grit in there and they'll tell you when it's time. But usually by two or three weeks old, they want grower grit. It don't usually go much past 10 or 14 days before they've outgrown the starter grit.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Shaggy wants to know if they will gorge on cherry stone grit. I don't know. I think that's what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah, I don't know. They might, but I I don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Let's talk a minute a little bit about the first two or three days and and Jeff, I've heard you talk about this a number of times and it always impresses me. But just the physiological systems in a baby chick, how they begin to develop and and how that really sets a tone for their success later in life. And and you know, once you miss it, you can't, there's no do-overs, you can't go back and get it back.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, it's you know, and and I'm trying to get this into people's heads, right? So you set everything in the body, you know, you're setting the circulatory system, the digestive tract, the respiratory, okay. Those are not fully formed when that chick hatches. Okay, they develop in a hurry, but having the right environment, having the right feed, having the right everything is going to facilitate that. Also, you're setting the muscle development, right? So you're actually setting, you know, how you know what those breast muscles, what those thigh muscles, what those leg muscles, what those muscles were will be when the bird grows up, based on that influx of amino acids and proper nutrition, okay, you you if the potential is actually in the breed, okay, you can bring that and enhance those factors on your conformation. Okay, so you're actually going to set your confirmation completely, you know, your body structure completely in that first week or two, right? So the sooner you get started, you know, like the fresher the feed, the better the feed, okay. You know, I would almost tell you that, you know, if you got one pound per chick of the perfect feed, okay, even if you had to shit have it chipped into you, and then you transitioned over to like a combok flock maker or something like that, then it's gonna be worth it, okay. Just just to set those development patterns for the entire body in that first week, okay. First week to 10 days. You know, they're only gonna go through in the first two weeks, you know, most of our breeds that we talk about here are only gonna go through about a pound in the first two weeks. So yeah, it's expensive, but I mean, how many people here listening are are doing show quality birds? Right? You're you're gonna go into a pen somewhere at at a show, right, and you're competing. So why not put your best foot forward and bring out the best in your bird? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

No, that's true. And you know, be sure that you use enough feeders and waterers that pretty much every time those chicks turn around, they're bumping into one or the other.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yeah. In the first week, I want them within a foot of each other. Okay, and then as time goes on, like week two, they can be two feet apart, week three, three feet apart, that sort of thing for most breeds. Your banthams, you can keep them closer together, you know, earlier. Just because they're gonna develop a quail, you'd want to keep them together a little bit closer, a little bit longer. I don't want an excessive amount of travel distance between feed and water for sure in the first week. Okay. I want them to find all that as easily as possible. And again, it's gonna make a difference on how they turn out in the end.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Let's talk a little bit about growth and development in that first two-week period. You know, I like to try to encourage as much natural behaviors in those baby chicks as I possibly can. Give them a place to scratch, give them a little place to dust, but you'll be surprised at how fast and how soon they'll take to that and start using it. As they uh get a little bit better, four or five days old. I may put just a a small board that they just lay it on the bedding and so they could hop up and down off of that. It kind of helps later on. When you get to the rooster stage. I I think. It does.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Okay, so I have in my brooders, and this may sound kind of funny, but you guys know what a sawhorse is, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

All right. So I take and made I've used a lot for two by fours. I'll make the little I beam out of them and then just screw the two by four to the side so it won't tilt over. In my grow outs, I'll do those at about 14, 16 inches high, you know, just and put them all over so they have those. But I actually found that that same eye laying on the sideways, so it kind of makes an H. Like two-day-old chicks will get up there on top of it and act like they're king of the world.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Well, even young baby chicks, like you said, two days old, if they're raised by a broody hen, she'll have the chicks tucked up under, but it's not at all unusual to see those chicks hopping up on her back and crawling all over.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yep. Jess can remember the first time I had a hen hat hen hatch some out in a pen. I was talking to him, and I think they were like three, maybe four weeks old, and I could hear the chirping sounds, but they were like five feet up in the air on a roost pole, and they were a month old.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

I was like, How they were born with good vigor and they were off to a good start. So it's amazing what they'll do if you if they get a really good start in that first couple weeks, it's amazing what they will do. What they can do.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

You know, one thing that I noticed and that really impressed me once I got switched over to a good feed was that how much that even helped improve my rate of feathering. My reds are pretty slow to feather anyway, but it it made a noticeable difference at how fast they started growing feathers and how fast the feathers actually grew in. It was very encouraging from that standpoint.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah, when you start getting those amino acids, right? Just things start clicking like they're supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Man, you keep that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

But it it wasn't what you were used to, you know. I mean, you had 40 plus years of growing them on what you could get, you know, somewhere close by. And you didn't know any different. And it wasn't your fault, but you know, with this show, you know, now you know better.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

So absolutely. I know better and I do better.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Right. That's the frustrating part is when you you teach people a better way and they ignore it for cheap and convenient.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah. Here's a person that came in late. Where, what fresh chick starter brand do you recommend? Carrie, I'm gonna toss that to you because you were the one that waxed poetic on that to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah, so straight off the shelf, 20% flop maker, non-medicated crumbles, you can get that at a lot of big shop, big box stores. Chewy will even deliver that particular formula that they have. If you look at that formula, it has the highest amino acids of all of theirs, which is weird. And to get it where it's perfect, one tablespoon, maybe rounded over, not quite heaping of breeder supplement, and about the same amount of oil. What I did was I would put a pound of feed in a gallon-sized baggie, and then dump the other in, zip, zip it up, shake the crap out of it, and they would eat it like a two-year-old on Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

So I'm not sure, but I think S and G, after I made that comment about breaking down and ordering in like the ultimate chick feed for that first two weeks, it may have been it may have been in response to that, and I don't know. So I'm gonna say if you want the best chick feed possible, you're gonna order it from Carrie in 25-pound boxes and get it shipped to your door. And you're not gonna complain about the price, and you're not gonna complain at all, right? You're gonna try it, and then you're gonna come back on the show and say, Oh my god. Okay, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

That's what that was that's what SNG SG was asking for.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Oh, yeah, he confirmed there.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah, so comment. Look, you know, that 23%, and I've got amino acids like the lysine's at 1.35, and the methionine is uh almost 0.6, and the threonine's at 0.8, and it's got meat protein in it, it has no BS in it, and you know, so I mean it it's a rock and roll formula. I it there's nothing else on the market that's gonna beat it or keep up with it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

I agree. It's just it's gonna be expensive, okay? But you know, it's your future.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

But it's worth it. I you know, between what I saved on using grit and the feed reduction in that, and the feed reduction that I got by upping the quality of the feed, it's pretty much a wash. Pretty much a wash. In price when it comes right down to it.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Well, okay, you're gonna do it with about 25 or 30 percent less, okay. But when you see the 30% enhanced growth, I mean you're you're you're going drastic differently. Oh, it's incredible. I know. And so Carrie, people need to know how to get all of you so you can answer the questions. Okay, so put it in the comment bar where they can find you, find it, find whatever.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah, okay. Or you can call him at BR549.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

BR5 only only a handful of us know what BR549 is, Rip. Come on. No, come on, come on, Barney.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Hey, while Terry's doing that, Temple says she has chicks hatching today. She says she pulled them out once they are standing well and put them in the brooder so they can eat and drink ASAP. Some people tell her no, leave them for 72 hours because they are absorbing the yolk sack and are fine.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

What do you do? You do not leave them in there for 72 hours. No, Temple, you're doing it right. You just explode the idiots, okay? And you know, I'm I'm hanging out with Mike Lotzer this week here in Alaska, and they uh he just hatched nine for nine, and he has a little bit of food already in the hatcher with them. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

So that's what John Gunnerman does. Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

So if you you know he'll leave them in there for up to 24 hours, but there is food in the hatcher. Okay. Now, if you don't want to put food in the hatcher because of the mess, then do what you're doing. As soon as they can stand and walk, you get them out of there, put them in the brewer.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

And look, you're gonna have a mess in the hatcher no matter how you look at it.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Right. But the sooner I can get food into a chick, the better they're gonna grow. That's a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

I like I had the hatcher baskets because of and I blame John for this too. The hatcher baskets that he uses with his CT series have those annoying pegs on them that get lost unless you super glue one side in. Yeah. And that works really well, but it makes stacking them a pain. But if you look at the next series up, the HB series, and buy the those big baskets and the lids to go on those, those will actually fit into the CT series incubators. When you do that, and you get the tiny waterers that they have for their quail brooders that to that are designed to fit through the little doors. They'll fit in there. They fit in there too. And I use a cabinet liner in hatching baskets, and that stuff it's rubbery, so it has texture, but it's small enough to where chick feed won't fall through it. So dump, dump, stick them in there. And I mean, between the egg yolks and the water and stuff, I mean they'd probably be good for a wheat, but that ain't happening. I hear that chirping noise, and I'm like a little kid wanting to go build a bear or something. I have a hatching addiction, okay? I have a hatching addiction. And I'm in tune with that.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Is there a group or a club you can go to to talk about that? Well, I guess you're here.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

That's you're gonna say we are it, man.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

We are where I get that out. Is this chicks AA?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Oh man, we were just talking about that when we recorded a podcast just uh last Tuesday. That's that's funny.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I mean, I'm gonna go home and play with some turkeys tonight when I get there.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Christine says she's excited to order Carrie's food for her next chicks bat next batch of chicks. I'll get it right. It takes a lot of the extra thought off my plate. It's already done for me. It's easy peasy and it's good stuff. You're exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

It ain't cheap and it ain't easy, but it's the best you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Well, what's that you always say? Cheap feed ain't good and good feed ain't cheap. That's right. And Laura's getting ready to take the plunge. She's really nervous and excited. I think she's probably more excited for their equipment to get there so they can start making their own feed.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Go, Laura. I sent her formulas back, I think Monday, Sunday or Monday, right after I got here. And so she's ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

And hey, Laura, if you have any questions about any of the equipment, how to set it up, how to dial it in, or anything like that, reach out to me and send me some pictures of what you got, and I'd be glad to help you. Because that when I first started like grinding my own grains and making my own feed, it was a labor of love, but it was it was also it was like the second thing on the list behind that chirping sound from inside the hatcher.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

There's a huge level of personal satisfaction that you feel way down deep when you make your own feed. And when you get it right, it's like, oh my god. It's it's like making your own fresh bread, right? It's it's in that category. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

It is, and it's well, I don't have time to make my own bread, but I made time for my chickens. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Funny how that happens, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Well, you had a better priority. That's good. You're good. You're good. Yeah. I have a good doctor.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Oh, I like to see these comments. Yeah, Sandborn says, found your channel just about a week ago. I've been binge listening to your past shows. This is the first time she's ever been able to listen live. She's also joined our Facebook groups. Thank you for your great information. Man, I wish I wish you could convince more people to do that. I really do. It it's we have fun doing these shows. We love it, and we enjoy helping folks. And that for me, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

I mean, last time I went to Texas, I literally the drive out there listened to like I went all the way back when y'all very first started the show and listened to stuff. And some of the some of the pot the cat podcast, YouTube, whatever you want to call the videos, wherever you're listening, like I've listened to some of them several times and I pick up stuff every time. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Binge watch. Absolutely. Let's take a few seconds out here to do something. We would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Petrell Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keepers 360 Live programming. For Trail has been a trusted name in sustainable farming and poultry nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high-quality, natural products aligned perfectly with the values we hold dear in our poultry community. Thank you, Petrell, for partnering with us to empower poultry keepers everywhere. We're truly grateful for your dedication and support. Absolutely. I had a question or a comment here I wanted to go to, and now I can't find it. Oh, Carrie, I I can't find it, but somebody had a question. Was can you ship your feed to Canada?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Okay, so on that, there is literally a ridiculous amount of paperwork, and it's a whole process that is kind of intimidating. But we've got some things that we're working on now, and as soon as we get through those, I'm gonna start the paperwork and take the plunge to export because not only have I gotten Canadian request, but I've also gotten Mexico request. So if y'all want it, I'll figure it out. Just be patient with me and we'll get it there.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Just get a big truck so you can make that route.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Well, registration in Canada is intimidating, right? So CFIA, the Canadian feed inspection agency, they're very slow and they're very nitpicky, and you're getting people that you're dealing with that don't know anything about feed. They're just a government employee filling a warm chair somewhere, working remote and at their leisure. So nothing happens on Monday before noon, and nothing happens on Friday afternoon and anywhere in between. So good luck. Now, Carrie, you didn't hear this from me, but you can ship through USPS into Canada under 20 pounds, and they you know they don't check it, it doesn't go through customs, it doesn't go through an inspection, and you can call it like we've sent poultry supplements through the mail, and it's not a thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

There is a loophole in small quantities, not 19 and a half pounds. It can be shipped. I have sent supplements and other stuff to Canada, just just under 20 pounds. It it does happen. Shipping is about 105 bucks, 110 bucks usually for that amount. So it's kind of steep, but yeah. It's a thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yeah, it it's quite difficult, but also coming through Canada, I realize that the folks are used to being abused financially, both by their government and things that they have to order in.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

So and I will say this aside from the grains, everything else in the feed comes from for trail.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

You know it's gotta be good. There was a question here about I'm losing it tonight, folks. Sorry about that, just bear with me. William says he read a couple of seasons ago that having a clean brooder bottom, not slippery, one could just add some ground starter feed to the in place of the litter. Chicks will peck in whatever is used for litter, so why not use some feed? I know a couple of judges that have been doing that for years.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

That's not what I it's it doesn't have a finished, so it's still kind of textured and a little bit coarse. And they'll put just put feed right on that, and they'll put water in between the feed, and you know, so and then after day three, they gradually start removing the feed from the floor, right? As they see it's getting spoiled or wet or whatever, right? If it doesn't look good, they'll just start pulling it, and eventually they just have the feeders and the waters in there. Usually by the end of the first week, you're in good shape to just be using feeders and waters.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Okay, so I gotta chime in on this. Because I was told I was crazy when I tried it. But my favorite brooder that I have, I call it my coffin brooder, because it's literally shaped like one. It's about eight feet long, two and a half feet wide. It's got two four-foot sections in it. And after using it for hundreds of birds for a season, like the wood, you could tell it was taking a toll on it. So I'd seen too many of those flex seal commercials where the guy cuts the holes in the boat, and I don't know that I would ever try that, but they make a version of that that's textured. Now, be prepared to let it sit for about two weeks because that's how long it took to get the smell out. It it puts off a horrible smell. But now the floor is sealed, so I don't have to worry about anything messing with it, and they have the texture, so I don't have to worry about you know any kind of feet problems. And yes, I I use a lot of wide-mouth mason jars, half gallon, and put them in there. And the first week, I'll I'll just put food all over the place, and then I will move them over to the other side, put about an inch worth of stall pellets in there, and put some of the waters back, and I have a feeder that's in the side that I can load from the outside. But that flex seal stuff actually worked pretty good for that. Interesting. They don't need it, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:09

I I'd only be worried if they start eating it.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Like they don't they didn't peck at it or anything because I I actually put a camera inside the brooders so I could check on that. And you know, I also like having a brooder cam. Of course you do.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

You know. The tech geek comes out in him now.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

I think he's a he's a helicopter dead. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

I want to, you know, talk about dedication. I want to share this comment that came in with you. Motion and mindset said it's 2 a.m. here in Albania, and he's enjoying his favorite show. Well, thank you so much. That person has the right name. Yes, sir, buddy. Absolutely. Thank you for that comment. Makes my day. What's the best way to get chicks to be human friendly so they are not their normal flighty self?

SPEAKER_02 43:11

I'm glad you brought this one up, Rick, because it makes me nervous that chicks are flighty. So there's there's either too much light in their environment, or there could be if if that feed is really not, you know, hitting all the you know, checking off all the blocks that those birds need. So those, you know, those chicks should be friendly, especially if you're giving them any human interaction on a daily basis. So I I would either think that you know your your light intensity is too high, because chickens, chickens, not turkeys or or ducks or geese, but chickens are not sun worshippers, and their light intensity. It's only supposed to be about five foot candles, and you would be amazed at how low that level of light actually is. Okay. Amen. And there's a free app. Carrie had mentioned, or somebody told me about it. You can download it. You can there, you can get a foot candle meter. It works through the camera on your phone and it'll measure it and tell you what you are as far as Lux or foot candles. Those two are kind of they go hand in hand. Um a foot candle is one-tenth of a lux, so 50 lux, five foot candles. You really only want between five and ten foot candles. So I would recommend checking that. That's important. And you know, those pictures I posted of me holding a rooster in Saskatchewan, right? I that's where I downloaded the foot candle app and used it, and we were at like 400 or 500 and foot candles, right? And you know, it doesn't feel bad for us, and we were enjoying it. But just remember, chickens are built to be under shade in a jungle, you know, very muted light, and they'll seek sunlight when they want it, and they'll lay in it for a half hour, then they go back to doing whatever they do. But they do not like light intensity. And I think this is one of the number one things that people really miss is they overstimulate their birds. Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

And you know, sometimes I have done things like I had a mealworm farm thing for a while. And I would take the very small mealworms and just hold one in between my fingers. And when that little worm would start flipping around, you had those chicks' attention guaranteed. And you know, I'd I wouldn't overdo it. I'd take maybe four or five of those. Another thing that I I have done is get them to take in boiled egg yolk off my fingertips. But again, don't don't overdo that because you want them to eat the good feed, the good stuff, but I'm one of those that kind of likes to treat them once in a great while. I want to throw that in there because I knew Jeff was getting ready to crack my knuckles.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Well, both of the choices that you had were actually good choices. Okay, so you know, the mealworms, good protein, it's pretty balanced nutrition, but I still don't want them filling up on mealworms. And, you know, feeding some egg yolk periodically, there's nothing wrong with that either, right? In small quantities. So it's better than people that want to feed them scratch and crack corn and these these molasses-filled second blocks. Those drive me nuts. But no, you had good choices there, Rip. So very good. You won't hear anything bad from me.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Blind hog find an acronym every now and then. That's what my dad used to tell me. Laura says, Harry, now I'm going to set up my blink cameras. You wear an oak on them, son.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

It's entertainment, I'm telling you. And when you share it on like some of the videos that I have shared on all kinds of random different stuff, some of the more popular ones was a 30-second clip out of my brooder. I've gotten questions about why is the light blue? What kind of feeders are you using? What kind of water is that? What kind of bird is that? Like all kinds of questions over those.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Carrie, you're the IT guy. So why you have not set up a live stream camera that shows, you know, in your different brooder setups or different pens why you don't have these images live streaming on your website, you know, so people can check in on what's Carrie hatching today. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Okay. So would you like for me to tell you why? Why? Because for me to set up that feed requires a lot of bandwidth, and I would have to update my package on my website to one that's like $80 a month. All right. To be able to stream that much. All right. And in other words, he's cheap, Jeff. I have thought about on Hatch Day, like creating another Facebook account so I can do it and share it, but setting up an iPad and going live so people can watch it. I have thought about that.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Well, Kerry, here's a thought for you. The the marketer in me is coming out here. But set up a deal with uh some of the camera manufacturers or a camera manufacturers uh to be their exclusive, you will use their products exclusively if they provide them to you and pay for the uh bandwidth upgrade. Oh see there? Yeah, the light just came on. That is, yeah. I can't. You'd be surprised what some of those folks go for. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Gosh, I'm losing it tonight. You know, I caught some crap from John Gunnerman a while back because I was using my dome incubator. But I have a dome incubator that I use for test all the time. And I I use that so I can keep a camera on it because people love to see the little pip and then see the chick pop out. It's like you know, the little red thing on a turkey that pops out when it's ready. The s nude.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

The s nude.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Esther says, What's the best age to wing ban chicks? Esther, I do all my large fowl when I take them out of the hatcher. Banums, I may wait for two, three days. Some people are are a little hesitant and unsure about doing chicks that young, but you can do it. And once you do one or two, it's it's kind of like falling off the log. It's really easy to do. Yep. Joy says uh the hemp bedding in her brooder is working out great, and I have no smell. She says, My brooder is pretty large. Boy, is it. You could those chicks could play tennis inside that thing. For real. I'm telling you. I love it though. I'm not complaining. I'm I'm just envious.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Yeah. I wish she would send me a picture because now I'm really curious.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

I think I may have one she sent me. Cherry Jock says, Wow, thanks for talking about light. I've been using ceramic heat bulbs and keeping the room light off and only using a light in the next room. I've been wondering if this was okay. So go ahead, Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

I mean, you know, again, download that app. It's free, you know, and check the foot candles in where those chicks are. I can't tell without seeing the light in that room, but I would think you're fine. I think you do want the room light on for some parts of the day. Just take those readings with that with that foot candle app and see where you're at. Just don't get crazy, you know. I mean, they don't really like a lot of intense light. They're gonna be a lot calmer in you know, a much muted light. And I I I'm trying to envision your setup, and I think you probably are doing good, but it's worth it to check it.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Absolutely. John Field says, I have a camera. I'm not the only one.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

Thanks, John. I appreciate that. I'm not the only one. I you're not the first one who tell me that. I mean, I there's plenty of people that are uh standing there hovering over their hatcher and incubators.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

So I used to do that. The light bulbs that I use in my brooders are I want to say four-watt equivalent LED, and they're blue. The only time in my barn where I do my incubating and my hatching, the only time the overhead light is on is if I go in there at night, because uh it's got windows so I can see in the daytime, but I use just those slight blue lights and because the the blue promotes growth, and yeah, it works. Jeff, if she's doing that in the room in her house, I mean she could get a 20-watt light bulb and put it in a lamp, and it'd probably be plenty of light, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:42

Yeah, again, I don't I don't know the size of the room. So, you know, in my mind, a 10 foot by 10 foot room, one 25 watt light bulb, as long as it's a warm light, right? So you get in the full spectrum, should be big enough, right? And Joy's question. So uh Joy, what's the chick-to-bedding ratio? I mean, you know, how much is in there? But I I can't see I would change it at two weeks, and then when their feed, you know, when they're when they start eating a lot more, which usually happens right after day 14, then you're probably gonna have to change it out weekly. But the first bedding should be good for two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Kerry, I'm gonna put this up there so the monkey will be on your back. So Samantha wants to know, could you link the blue lights you use in the notes?

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Yes, and I'm sorry, but I they're they're two what LEDs, not what four or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I'll get them because I get them where I buy just about everything else in this world. Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

I I couldn't help that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Trying to scroll back and see if we've missed any good. We have had a lot of questions and interaction tonight, and I think that's just great.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Oh, that's great. Did we miss anything on your list, Rip?

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Oh, uh, absolutely. Well, let's see, let's run through it real quick. Well, what about some common mistakes to avoid? What and these are things that I think of uh that I see being asked regularly on poultry groups or chicken groups. And some of the things that I see is overheating or chilling chicks. Down here in Florida, we have more of a problem with overheating chicks than we do chilling them, but it does. But Jeff, how old is is a chick really before they're what about four or five weeks before they can really regulate their own internal body temperature? I can't remember off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Believe it or not, 14 days. Oh, never mind.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

14 days.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Yeah, actually, around day 10, they can start to regulate their own temperatures, but 14 days they can regulate their own body temperature. So, you know, I but people coddle their chicks way too much, right? So after day 14, you can start dropping one degree in the brooder every day, okay, safely. As long as you have appropriate bedding, appropriate feed, right, and you know, good access to water, you can drop that temperature one degree each day after day 14. Okay, so you you can you can wean them off, harden them off. Actually, hardening them off helps out quite a bit in feather growth stimulation. So you can actually get some better feather development by hardening them off, you know, after that day 14, leaving them on higher temperature, you know, leaving them at you know that 95 degrees for an extended period of time can actually, you know, in their instinct or in their metabolism, it can hinder, you know, that feather development.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Exactly. Another thing I wanted to to mention, we don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but mixing ages of chicks and overcrowding of chicks.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Good luck. You're on your own. Now I I will say this there is one instance where I do like to mix chicks with their ages. I personally have found that if you put your chickens in the incubator, wait seven days or five, depending on what you're doing that day, and then put your turkey eggs in the incubator. That way your chickens are about a week, week and a half, almost two weeks older than the turkeys. The turkeys will live better because even if you spend a ridiculous amount of time with turkeys in the brooder, if there's a way for them suckers to die, they will. But if you have chickens that are a week or so older, come on, it ain't that bad.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

You need to start putting one in your chest pocket and take it to work with you, okay. That's the kind of bonding I'm talking about. You need to do with your turkeys. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Just like I might try it tomorrow because tomorrow's Friday, and I have some in my hatchet right now. Send us a picture. It didn't take, I'll take a heat plate.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

If you if you put it in your chest pocket, it won't need a heat plate because your skin surface temperature is warm enough. Your skin surface temperature is warm enough. If you sweat a little bit because some kid brought a taser to high school with him, right, then you'll you'll have the right humidity, right? So you'll have the right humidity and the whole bit, right? You just stick it, you know, get something with a big pocket. It'll think it's hanging out with mom. You know, if you get a hoodie with the with the pass-through pockets, you can put three or four in there and take them with you. Okay.

unknown 59:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

And you're gonna be happy, right? Just take a little feed of water with you.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Yeah, yeah. Sherry uh jocks whoops got away from me. Wants to know can you talk about water for chicks? I use your recipe with molasses salt, apple cider vinegar, and fresh ginger. I'd like to know more about how this helps them.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Really, it's energy, right? So you're getting energy out of the fresh ginger, you're getting B vitamin energy out of the ACV, you're getting some really simple sugars out of the molasses, but you're also getting minerals out of the molasses. There's a nice level of potassium, magnesium in there. So, and you're sold, of course, as part of the electrolyte package. So you're getting a milder electrolyte formula, and you're getting, you know, you're getting some energy boost out of it, you know, between the ginger and the ACV and the mild sugar and the molasses. So that's that's as good as I can explain it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

This is pretty good. Carrie, you you need to pay attention. Samantha Gregg says, Yes, I raise my turkeys like this every year, and we've only lost two out of a hundred in two years.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

That's excellent. Yeah, that's really, really good mortality right there. I like SG's comment, right? Wear your hood backwards, then you can put the turkeys in the hood right on the that is an excellent idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

That is a great idea, and you could sprinkle a little starter in the bottom of it, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

So yeah, they could guys. Joy sent me pictures of her brooder. I thought, okay, look, I know now why hers don't want to drink the milk off the pan. Yeah. She may actually need to get a Starbucks cup for those chicks. Yeah, yeah. That is a nice brooder.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Yes. Yeah, that's kind of like the Rich Carlson of brooders. Yes. Yeah.

unknown 1:01:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

I think she's only got like five or six. Well, she said twelve chicks in there. That's a four foot by six-foot brooders. They could get lost in that thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

I think Laura's got a great idea. Turkeys, Turkeys in the Hood sounds like a brand new. It could be a miniseries documentary, right? You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

So what I need what I need to do is find the last day of school, calculate backwards to where I can like carry them in the hood for the whole last week, and get me one of those t-shirt hoodies because I'm not a skinny guy. I I get kind of warm in a sweatshirt hoodie. Give me one of those t-shirt hoodies and put it on. Man, I mean you could get away with a lot the last week of school, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Telling you, you'd be you'd be the bee's knees if you're walking around with a turkey in your hoodie.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

I've already been asked to incubate some so they could hatch out in the middle of class. Do it. Absolutely. I did last year.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

It would be a real educational experience. A lot of kids don't don't experience that. Yep. Yeah, yep. That's that's really about all I've got. Again, I just want to thank everybody for joining us tonight. We've had a good group of folks on with us. We've had some good questions, some good interaction, and we heard from a guy who loves to stay up late at night, apparently from Albania. So it's he's up at two o'clock listening to the show. God bless him. We love you, guy. He loves to hear Americans talk about chickens. I can't blame him. I love to hear anybody talk about chickens now. Come on. But Jeff, do you or Carrie have anything else to do you want to chip in and add tonight?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

No, it was a great show.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

This is one of our I really enjoyed it. Yeah. I love talking about baby chicks.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

I like talking about hoodies and turkeys.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

I just started to say, I knew that was coming. I knew that was coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

Look, yeah, I'm just just give me some time. I actually think I have one of those uh hoodie t-shirts.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Well, you know, you could you probably can't wear a t-shirt though to a school, can you? You probably have to dress a little bit better. I was gonna say, just take one old t-shirt, cut out part of it, make a pouch like a kangaroo, put your in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

I'll say this. I have tenure. So it would take a board meeting or a felony to fire me. Okay. And what's the problem? Uh boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

So yeah, if you know a seamstress, just have her uh put a pouch on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

I did it for educational purposes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

I'm trying to scroll. We had so many comments and questions tonight. I keep trying to scroll through and see if we missed anything that would be good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

You know, that's really smart. Joy said that she put the the plates of glass on there so her dog could acclimate with the chicks. And that, hey, that's smart. That's actually a really good idea. I need to find out if she works at a hospital or a doctor's office. Because if I have to go to a hospital, a smart person like that's who I want to take care of me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

All right. One last question. Somebody wants to know the best thing to use for heat. Lamps aren't safe, and I've heard people don't like the plates.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

I use a ceramic reptile heaters. It's hard to describe, but it's flat on the bottom, uh, it's all s ceramic. It just emits a radiant heat. It's not a real bright light thing, it's not a real hot thing. And I've had pretty good luck with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

I just grew up using the lamps, and they weren't an issue for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

As long as you don't get water on the lamps, it's I was gonna say if you buy if you don't buy the cheap ones, if you buy the more expensive ones that are like explosion rated, you're not gonna have a problem. But most people don't want to spend $12 to $15 for a light bulb.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

And you you've also got to be careful you don't get one of those forget the term, heavy-duty, long-duty light bulbs. It it's coated with Teflon in case it's breaking hurt. But that emits when you turn it on, emits a gas, it will kill your birds. Yeah, I know some people that's lost a whole room full of canaries off of those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

I use a heat plagues just because it's simple. I also use the reptile heaters.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

I work. I like the reptile heaters. Laura said, uh thank you. I truly look forward to this every other week. Man, so do we, Laura. Yes, we do. We really do. Folks, until next time, and enjoy your two weeks off from us. And I don't know what we're gonna talk about. We'll come up with something exciting between now and then. Jeff, you might even actually be home so you don't have to rush back and dodge the moose on your way back to the motel room to make it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

I will be. I well, I plan to be, right? If if all goes well, I will be in my house.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

So very good. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you. Y'all have been great as usual, and we are so indebted to you. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you in two weeks. So long, everybody.