Wellness as a Lifestyle: How to Meet Consumer Demand

Join four of our leading experts as they delve into the evolving landscape of health and wellness, focusing on its expansion from a trend to a consumer lifestyle. Key topics include the Blurring of Wellness Concepts, Women’s Health, Self-Care at Home and the Evolution of Health-Conscious Eating.

Uncover the future of health and wellness as consumers increasingly take ownership of their health through holistic, long-term solutions. Our experts discuss the drivers behind this consumer behaviour and the manifestations of the wellness lifestyle across other industries. They also discuss the unique challenges and opportunities for brands both within and outside the health and wellness industry. 
 
 A must-listen for anyone interested in the future of health and wellness. 

Featuring:
Matthew Oster, Senior Head of Consumer Health
Irina Barbalova, Global Lead of Health and Beauty
Maria Mascaraque, Industry Manager of Food and Nurtition
Nick Stene, Senior Industry Manager of Home and Garden

Hosted by:
Jessica Ridenour, Producer

Want to dive deeper into our insights, or view this panel discussion as a video? Click here.

Transcript

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Thank you all for joining me today. I am joined by four of our leading experts to discuss the future of health and wellness, a domain that has transformed from an industry into a consumer lifestyle. And while uttering the words wellness and lifestyle in the same sentence may conjure images of vocal vegans or yoga poses on the beach posted on Instagram, it's a lot bigger than that. Consumers are taking ownership of their health, and they are seeking long-term holistic solutions from every industry and sector. So today we're here to talk about those changes, and we're here to talk about consumer lifestyle, the drivers behind the shift and the opportunities and challenges that it presents for brands both inside of the health and wellness industry and outside. All right, well, let's just jump in then. So Matt can you tell me how long you have been working in consumer health? I've been working it and consumer health for over seven years now. Consumers taking on wellness type things in their lifestyle, That's not something that is necessarily new. But what about this moment in time? Are you seeing that is- is new, is unique? I mean consumers have always been, you know, thinking about their health. At least a segment of consumers have been thinking about their health for, you know, decades now. It's been front of mind for a lot of formulations within consumer health and even within, you know, you know, categories that are near to consumer health, like, you know, functional foods and beverages. They've been in the market for 15, 20, 30 years. But I think what's kind of unique about this moment and why we're calling it wellness, why it's all one kind of title is the fact that it has become a lifestyle. People are orienting all a lot of their behaviours and certainly a lot of their purchasing behaviours around adhering to this lifestyle. You know, I want to live healthier, but I also want to live healthier in a way that's comfortable to me. So it doesn't mean that I want to take a supplement. It means potentially that I want to take a suite of products that help me get energised and be the best version of myself, not just for now, but sustained into the future. You mentioned functional foods. So that will take me to Maria. Lifestyles, you know- we're at the beginning of the year, people are talking about making these healthy changes in their lives and you hear people say like “diet and exercise” and diet always comes first. So I'm wondering how, what are you seeing in the food and nutrition industry that reflects this, the shift towards wellness as a lifestyle? Yeah. So, I think we've seen very interesting shifts in the food industry. I would say that we've been seeing this movement from more sort of like physical oriented kind of positioning, as you think about like added protein for like muscle recovery. We've seen that shift more towards, you know, more holistic positions, like need-states, for example. So if you think about gut health is not just about digestion, it's also about, you know, a happy gut equals a happy mood. So, you know, we've seen this kind of like transition towards like these moralistic positionings as well as, you know, relaxation, energy and cognitive function. And I think all of this is, kind of like, is triggered by, you know, more and more stress and uncertainty in the world we live. And also like the culture of self-optimisation and self-improvement. Right? So I think like consumers are looking to experiment with these kind of like functional foods and it's a still pretty niche concept in the functional food space. But we see like really interesting pockets of growth in all of these areas. With ingredients like nootropics or adaptogens for like stress relief and very interesting cultural nuances as well on that front, like botanicals, like Chinese medicine, like you know, those kind of things. So yeah, I do see these shifts happening in the food industry which are becoming, you know, more holistic positions, which is really aligned to what Matt was mentioning. So Okay. I’m hearing- what I'm hearing is that it's not just about generally, it's not about just the physical needs states anymore. And I know that that's something that's really relevant to your work Irina, studying women's health. Which, you know, it's- I'd say it's new. I know it's not new. It's at least in my personal experience, at least 37 years old. But I know that it's fairly new is something that we, we talk about at Euromonitor and is available to consumers at large. So can you speak a little bit about Women’s Health and this lifestyle shift? Yeah, well, Women's Health is certainly not new, but it's certainly gathered momentum in the last several years, really presented by a huge kind of opportunity for transformation for, you know, society, consumers, but also presenting a large business investment opportunity as well across multiple industries. And when we talk wellness and lifestyle, certainly a key prerequisite for addressing women's health solutions and services in product design and service design is really hinges on, on that holistic view. So really leveraging not just the physical expressions but also the mental, emotional also nutritional and, even over and above, the lifestyle component. So really making correlations and also the associations between those psychological and physical interrelations and how they're interlinked to make sure that those multiple and multidimensional need-states are addressed as part of solution design, as part of experiences and outcomes. So I think wellness, as a- as an overall driver really is something that is reflecting on the acceleration of women's health and we're talking about holistic wellness. But this also means not just multiple need-states, but also we're talking about an inclusive, more inclusive wellness. So previously kind of taboo or underserved areas like sexual wellness, for example, mental wellbeing and women's health are now kind of becoming a more critical component of that evolution of the wellness journey. So, pretty much kind of dubbed as the next frontier, really in terms of investment from business and also in parallel with that kind of unmet consumer demand for solutions around women's health-specific conditions, needs and life stages, not just conditions, medical conditions, but also different life cycles and concerns that come alongside that. As we first started talking about this, this topic, I was struggling a little bit, Nick, I have to admit, of like figuring out how you how you fit in. And then, you know, I was I was struggling and then I turn on the happy light that was at my desk to improve my mood. And I raised my standing desk and I, I sat in my ergonomic chair and I was like, Oh, no okay, I get it now. I’m already a part of this So could you speak to a little bit about the health, the wellness lifestyle in your sector. Okay. If we look pre-pandemic, I would say the wellness trend was something that bled into the home products from other industries where it was strong, and it was something that was relatively niche. It was known it was there. We had steam going on in certain parts of the home. That was part of a wellness story. We had ingredients inside of products, but it was quite a small part of the conversation. And then we had the biggest loneliness epidemic that we've known as a species, and we were all hiding for months on end, and that has triggered so much time inside of the home, so much pressure on the outside life beyond the home that the in the home part is now compensating .And it's become part of an area to recharge, an area to recover, to actually cope with these increasing stresses out of the home through the in-home life, the in-home lifestyle and all the things we're doing. It's not just in the UK that we started to actually give our plants names. It's not just in the UK that we're actually starting to have vegan pet food where we're actually trying to feed a carnivore, something to make ourselves feel better. So there's all manner of elements to this where it's become critically central to strategy, where pre-pandemic it wasn't. And we've seen across a whole raft of products like indoor plants where their trajectory for the forecast looking five years, six years ahead has actually dramatically changed because of these stresses, because of these pressures. They weren't generally gardening was something people kind of did as hobbies. Lots of people were into it, but suddenly we had millions of people across the world take up the hobby and many of them are sticking to it. So it's that kind of thing where it's become central to strategy, where perhaps pre-2019, it wasn't as serious, it wasn't as big a part of the thinking. So what I want to talk about now is kind of in a very cinematic way. How did we get here? Like what has brought consumers to this this lifestyle change? So I'm wondering, Matt, can you speak to a little bit about what our what's the biggest driver that you think is behind this adoption of the wellness lifestyle? Yeah, I think there are a couple a couple of areas that I see from within the consumer health space as I see products and services moving away from pure health into into wellness. One aspect is, is around ingredients and I think this was mentioned before, but consumers have a better sense of the types of, especially in consumers that are more interested in wellness products and wellness orientation, around ingredients that they feel really meet those needs. And there have been over the the, you know, the past decade or so, the rise of so-called health halo ingredients. Right. So a good example there is protein that's no surprise. You're also seeing the biotics suites, suite of products or probiotics, prebiotics products like collagen, for instance. And these products maybe have an orientation for some consumers that are more narrow, but increasingly, as has become more they’ve become more broadly used, they're they're now oriented again, around lifestyle, around holistic, living around these other aspects, and that can more easily allow them to be incorporated into food and beverage products or in certain cases around beauty products or other types of products. Right? So that's one area. The other area is, is format. And there have been a lot of innovations in recent years around bioavailability for ingredients such as the ones I just mentioned so that we can you can take a product now that has a health orientation and quickly redesign it and say now this is a food and beverage product or this is a topical product for beauty, personal care or something like that And that movement is much, much quicker than it was about a decade ago, right? In fact, when you get a new product in the market now, there's already formulators that are thinking, what is the easiest way that I can get this away from a pill based design, which is in the supplements area, and to something that we know more consumers are going to be enthusiastic about. Can we get this into a bar or can we get this into a snack food or something else? Because we know that more consumers are going to be really enthusiastic about that ingredient in that format as opposed to something that screams more, more narrowly focussed around health Can someone speak to what what is kind of getting consumers to think outside of traditional solutions for health and wellness? Is there is it a lack of those those types of ingredients, or is there something else going on? What are consumers looking for? What are what are they missing? I think from my side. What I see particularly like the opportunity that I see in the food industry in this particular aspect that really connects to what Matt was saying, is that the consumer is looking for much more friendlier formats that align better with their lifestyles. And I think that is where there is a big opportunity for the food industry, because if you are thinking about like the snack bar, if you're thinking about like drinking milk product or whatever it is, right? You’re not only choosing these products because of their functionality outcome, which is an important one. But you also delivering potentially some nutrition. You are delivering an experience through taste, through texture, right? So you are creating that sort of like positive experience around it. And I think it’s that sort of like much more friendlier formats that, you know, can help consumers include these into their everyday lifestyles. Right? And, you know, connecting to the point is like the pill fatigue is there for many consumers. The concept of food as medicine is resonating is resonating a lot more with consumers as well. So I, I think that is an important aspect why this is kind of like moving into these moralistic sort of like wellness trend that is kind of like it really plays in every single part and in food it is a very important one in that sense. And one area I'd like to add. As much as we're looking at wellness evolving into kind of a natural lifestyle component, I think we shouldn't undermine the importance of what technology and digitalisation is playing into the wellness field. And this is almost like slightly counteractive to what we've been saying because this is pretty much enabling so much kind of data-driven tech-enabled self-enhancement, optimisation and is also providing a lot of access to multiple health solutions such as virtual care and so on. So we shouldn't underestimate that kind of health component and achieving that health access and enabling more advanced diagnostics within the health domain, which is also enabling those more advanced personalised solutions. And in particular with women's health, Femtech is playing such a massive and shifting to some of the standards there. We're seeing, you know, anything from kind of fertility tracking, to hormonal testing, to virtual care and patient support and even more really highly regulated medical delivery within, within the women's health space. So a lot of potential to for M&A or partnership for a lot of players that want to tap into that femtech space, It's something to definitely explore. And certainly in the area of diagnostics, as I mentioned, particularly non-invasive diagnostics, because within women's health a lot of experiences are not necessarily positive in terms of them, in terms of diagnostics field. So that's something that is bound to transform the wellness space too, with women's health being at the kind of the next the next frontier in that sort of investment. Combining a couple of ideas here. Maria, you were talking about, like, friendly formats and Irina you were talking about, like, positive experiences. I'm wondering, Nick, can you speak to emotional connections to health and wellness? I think what you've been talking about is this spread and the actual way in which it's manifesting in new ways and how it's actually changing. I think a lot of that has to do with the pressures and the tensions that people have been under over the last 3 to 4 years. Where it's new, it's coming at us from new directions, were challenged on things that we haven't been challenged on before. The pandemic’s created all manner of new stresses inside of life, so we can see it manifesting in a whole bunch of new behaviours. We saw it within sleep health and the degree of spending to try and recover a good night of sleep. And that's not just about a bed, it's taking us off into other industries and that's part of this migration, is we're seeing it go into aromatherapy, it's gone off into home care and the fragrance side of things. That's part of what's causing this new manifestation. And you're talking about emotions. We've invested so much humanising emotion into pets, into plants, even into robots and inanimate objects around the home where they've taken on a new role inside of our life. And this is an authentic emotion. It's not something brands are having to force into the shopping journey. It's already there. People have put so much more emotion into this. If I look at things like pet food, I'm seeing pet food that is indistinguishable from something you might try and feed to your child. It's packaged to be the same thing. They've put little symbols around, like big eyes and everything to try and do the embodiment of childhood. There’s, we've got stories about puppies and sensitive skin on pet food. So there's this whole emotional level that is invested in to this sort of product and this sort of shopping journey has changed dramatically. And speaking to one of the points Irina was talking about earlier, this Start-Up behaviour has been really strongly related to wellness. During the boom, with e-commerce particularly having such a strong role within sales and with so many traditional supplies of products curtailed and having major logistics challenges, it's given this opening for wellness-first, sustainability-first platforms to actually get far more shouting power than they might have had. And it lasted a good 18 months where it's given them enough scale to actually become attractive. And we've seen a number of these start-ups get wellness very strongly in as part of their platform. That's made them very attractive for acquisition from the leaders who realise they have to play catch up. And we're seeing that as one of the other big drivers that’s creating growth that's driving mergers and acquisitions strategy. So it's not just the consumers that are driving this. It's the money too. It's growth. Well I kind of really agree with Nick's point here on emotion. I think we're seeing something that is going beyond even the mental and emotional we're heading into the spiritual space. Right. And happiness is kind of becoming that ultimate self-expression of wellness itself. So instilling and embedding emotional connection and emotional support through products and services is kind of becoming paramount. And this can manifest not just in terms of ingredient reformulations, in actual claims, benefit expressions, but more even more importantly, it's about that projecting that social impact, social inclusivity and in the women's health space, it is about projecting that empathy. So that brand communication that injects that empathy really resonates with the importance of that emotional relevance that that everyone really should be investing in beyond product, beyond solution, beyond function. Something what we want to call, you know, emotion beyond function. Yeah, I just want to add a quick point on that because I totally agree. And I think when I was talking earlier about that movement from like physical to mental wellbeing moving into the spiritual, as Irina is just saying, I think the claims perspective is really important here because some of these kind of like needs-states sort of frameworks really provide a very powerful, powerful lens that connects the physical and mental triggers with the emotional substrates. And if you think about, you know, happy as I am and you think about positionings such as like vitality or power or balance, all of these kind of like plays into these interlinked sort of triggers that I think are very important to kind of like communicate and engage with consumers from all these angles. as health and wellness expands you know, the edges are expanding and the edges are getting a little bit blurrier, too. So addressing some of these things that live in that blurry area, we've addressed ingredients. We've talked about digitalisation, technology, wearables. These things are branching out into other industries and now getting into product claims. Are there any other emerging claims? You know, Maria, I heard you say some really interesting ones that I hadn't quite thought of like balancing. That's something that's really kind of difficult to pin down. So what other types of health claims are we seeing right now? Yes, I, I actually don't think we track balance specifically, but yeah, we've seen, at least in my industry, in the food industry, we are starting to see positions towards like energy, cognitive health, memory care. In the food industry it’s still quite niche, but we are starting to see this kind of life shift in certain categories like snacks and dairy, mainly, even like for example, coffee creamers. If you think about it like mental clarity and focus as you put in the coffee creamer into your coffee so you’re combining two categories that deliver those sort of functionalities. So yeah, definitely we've seen growth into those spaces across quite a few markets. And even like associations of like probiotics, which we used to tend to just associate with digestion or immunity. We are seeing it now stress relief for sleep aid in markets like Japan, for example. So you are seeing that sort of like moralistic sort of transition of ingredient-claim combinations that are very interesting So within the home products, that's I'm seeing a similar structure coming in, in terms of how the propositions are building. So from the entry position it seems that wellness manifests for me as effectively like low chemistry, low toxicity, reduced levels of involvement for things. So we've reduced the ingredients that are doing harm. The first rule of entry is do no harm. That's position one. And I'm seeing a step up where we get into the beginning of feel good, and the beginning is around ethics and feel good about the purchase, feel good about the brand that's talking to one of the things Irina was mentioning earlier in terms of you've got to actually sort out this inclusivity aspect. It's got to feel good to actually join in with your brand, to join in with your proposition. We're seeing things in that space like bee friendly or vegan or it getting into his ethics side of the equation and towards the top end, we're into the experiential. It is it's literally feel good. And this is where we're into the psychotropics. We've got experiments going on around serotonin levels. What happens within brain chemistry? There's even dopamine, we’re into things like escentric molecules around scent which are able to evoke sentimentality, to evoke nostalgia and personalised scent structure. So that's effectively where a lot of the experiments towards the top end and these emotionally oriented propositions are coming from, cannabis on bedding, that kind of thing. This is where it's all heading to. All right. So this is happening pretty quickly. It sounds like everything is kind of just exploding outwards and filtering into other industries. I'd love to speak a little about actually, I'd like to talk a lot about what challenges there are for brands that were or are still operating in consumer health. Matt What are the biggest challenges? Well, I think us being here today kind of supports that there are challenges. Obviously, if you're starting to compete not just within the within the products and the brands that you're used to competing in. I'm talking specifically around, for instance, supplements. But now you're competing with food and beverage with, you know, beauty. In these cases, even with what Nick has been supplying here, a lot of the interesting innovations in even homecare. If health can now be kind of turned inside out as wellness and that could be anything, you really have risks all over the place. I think that consumer health still has a major role to play, even within this architecture of wellness, principally because it is a health category. All these other categories have health orientations, but consumer health, obviously, if that is what's going on, principally in consumer health. So within the category like supplements, I think one of the orientations that I think a lot of the players are engaging with now as a near term bulwark against, you know, cannibalisation in other industries is around multi-functionality, right? So especially in the last few years in markets like in Western Europe and the United States, where purchasing power has become has taken a considerable hit, they are trying to advocate for, you know, more, more positionings, more need-states in one bottle. Right. So I think Maria mentioned this before, but like the interplay, for instance, of mental health and cognition or digestive health and mental health, digestive health and immunity, and you start barnacling on more and more need-states within a bottle. This doesn't even need to This isn't even require new formulations. A lot of times this is just repositioning existing products in the market, but it's addressing the fact that consumers are wanting more out of each individual products they’re engaging with and they have pricing pressures. Right. So this is something that I think the consumer health companies are well-positioned to orient around. The second the second area that I think is really important is whether or not these products do as they are told. Now, supplements on this on this point aren't perfect either, without a doubt. But I think good supplements companies that have scientific backing can orient around a messaging of bioavailability. These pills actually can give you a amount that you need to engage in this type of need-state, whereas that's going to be increasingly more difficult in different formats. For instance, in food and beverage or in even in gummies. So, you know, still take your pills because there's a benefit there that you will get all the all the needs that you say you want, you'll get out of this pill, whereas you might not get it in some of these other sexier options. So the risk is that you could lose your your customers if you're not able to like show up, right I think there's a risk that they've already lost many of their customers. I think right now it's what is the messaging that both retains your core customers but also gives new or softer customers the reasons to still engage with a supplement as opposed to going to something that more directly fits an on the go active lifestyle. I think on the on the topic of challenges, I would like to go back to ethics because if consumers are taking that stronger stance on social values, I think it's really important that anyone who plays in the wellness space and it's an increasingly saturated and overcrowded marketplace. I think one key distinguishing unique selling point a brand can offer is its that alignment with social values and really a brand that is able to demonstrate that they are in some sense adding some meaningful value. Right. And that they are in fact narrowing a lot of the disparities and gaps in health access, wellness, access and quality of outcomes. And this most certainly plays very much in the wellness in the women's health space with a very minimal funding actually going into improving the quality and improving access. So really balancing profitability and commercialisation with that ethical component and meaning that that wellness, socioeconomic wellness gap is narrowing. I think that that's a critical component and something going back probably also another opportunity, but also a challenge to match point on science. I think consumers are expecting something that is that works right? No gimmick, something that actually is working and they're becoming a lot more savvy about the science behind products, behind services, and that is almost expected now. So science backing and more importantly, medical expertise as well, I think especially in the beauty space, everything now is you know, a lot of brands are projecting that medical, doctor, dermatologist endorsement, which is critical to kind of resonating without those science backed expectations of consumers. And so medical expertise could also really boost some of these developments in women's health, for example, because to to counterbalance that potential conflict between profitibility and innovation versus ethical and health care, improving health care outcomes as well. So it can be a challenge and it can be a great opportunity in some industry spaces. that technology plays a role in finding that balance between genuineness and like proving efficacy Technology is paramount and embedding that technology into services and solutions. Yes, but for that retention and adoption, really it is about kind of preserving that human element. And that goes back to emotion, right? So those kind of hybrid approaches where technology includes a human aspect or expertise by, you know, clinicians or nutritionists or whether it's from an interaction point of view or whether it's embedded within the service, and the in the model is probably critical. So technology will empower a lot of consumers to take charge of their own health. But for that to be relatable and for it to resonate and for it to stick, I think it would be critical, to you know, embed that within the lifestyle, within the routines that already exist and also bring in that kind of interactive human and emotional component as part of it. And then what are the what are the biggest opportunities out there? Where can brands focus their energy the most in this in this wellness lifestyle world? I mean, within food. I think what is important is to understand the local nuances. I think we cannot have like sort of like food with functionalities that is kind of like have a blanket approach and it's just like. The opportunity would be to understand what are the consumer preferences in these in different geographies, understand, align those with the nutrition ingredients that they're connecting the most with and then deliver those on in really sort of like friendly formats that, you know, they are convenient and that really align with the lifestyle of these consumers. And I just to give you a very quick example, so when we're talking about protein, but we've seen this kind of like shift from like, you know, animal based protein to plant based protein so and then maybe we’re moving from, you know, having it in just snacks to really across the board of the food industry. Then we’ve seen how, you know, probiotics again where it’s just mostly in the dairy space, but now we see it in like snacks we have into like baked goods. We have any like all over. So it is about embedding some of those trends into sort of like your everyday sort of foods in a in a friendly way. I would say there are challenges as well connecting to Matt’s point as well. Like in the food industry we see there is not that bioavailability so a lot of it is really driven by soft claims. And it is about, you know, how are we engaging with the consumers, so it is you know through the format, it is through added nutrition. But possibly at the end of the day you're just having like that particular like snack. Is it going to affect your immunity by itself? Probably not. So they are obviously challenges as well in this space. It’s just kind of like one bit of a broader sort of change, all of a broader lifestyle of as as we are talking about. Yeah, if I'm thinking within home products, but it's a wider observation when you're looking at opportunity areas within wellness, what strikes me the most is you've got to look across the board. You can't look inside of a silo. There are so many opportunities for learning where one industry is further ahead on the journey and there are things that the industry might well have learned. If you just go in silo and don't think about what else is out there, you'll just go and reinvent the wheel. And there's quite a few companies that have been into that space and the moment you start looking cross-industry and you start thinking of wellness as a lifestyle, as this wide change in thinking, you get to see that actually there's so many crossovers and like for instance, if we think about a home, What is wellness? Is wellness the family? Is wellness individual? How do you handle it when the wellness of one person has just actually created a problem in the wellness of another? So one of the most obvious ones we've seen within home and garden, people have taken down a wall to actually lead into this natural thing, natural light, natural airflow. But they've just destroyed someone else's privacy. And so we've now got this conflict around space and pressures that are new created by a wellness solution. So I think that's of the biggest observations I would make is we have to look at this wider picture and the idea of tensions within wellness. It's a very rich area for innovation because effectively we've got lots of people involved, lots of tensions, lots of needs across an environment. You can't just fix one thing in isolation. You'll change lots of things around it with any change you're going to make. So I think there's lots of opportunities, lots of material for ideation, particularly within this space. I want to wrap up with one last big question, and that is, is this something that's going to stick, or is this just people are picking up wellness for now and it'll be gone in two years? I think the interesting thing for this on my side of perspective is there's a lot of tensions which are creating the interest in wellness right now. And as long as there's the instability, as long as this stresses, as long as there's things going on which make us uncomfortable, where we're seeking solutions in life to regain that comfort, to regain that happiness, that's effectively what's driving this background need. And until everything starts to calm down and feel a little more sane in everything that's going on away from the home, this isn't going to go anywhere. And one of the conversations a couple of days ago was I heard about IKEA and IKEA started to promote in Spain post-pandemic, post-pandemic post inflation pricing. And this has just started to happen as this idea we can be calm and it's all controlled now, we're back to knowing. And literally within a few days we hear about what's happened at the cost of shipping when it's going through the Suez Canal and the Mediterranean. We're not into stability yet. We're not into this time period of knowledge about what's coming. And as long as that instability is with us this focus on wellness, this focus on stress, this focus on controlling emotions is also going to be with us. I completely agree with Nick. I think I think about it from a different perspective. I think about who is potentially going to be leading whatever we consider this marketplace in the next two years, the next five years, the next ten years, I think there's still going to be this marketplace and maybe in in a form that is similar to what we see now. I think one thing that I would love to see if I had a crystal ball is who is going to be leading the the kind of the kind of broad movement of engaging with these ready made consumers for wellness. Because right now it's intermediated by, you know, this loose affiliation of kind of social media influencers. Yes, there are some people who maybe have accreditations, but a lot of times it's just, you know, people are trying to make a quick buck, frankly. And I you know, I have a pessimistic and optimistic take on this. The pessimistic take is this probably is going to be the same, this is going to be the same people that are going to be leading the charge in ten years. But I'd like to think that we can become more sophisticated as a as a consumer base and engaging with the products and really surfacing the products actually do as they're as they're designed. And one way with that actually could potentially be the case is when right now in my space at least, the acquisition pipeline has completely dried up for all of the macroeconomic reasons we've talked about and the instability that's behind that. If that starts to move, I think we'll start to see bets on some of these some of these better kind of more niche products. And those potentially could then be more elevated in consumers minds. And then you start to winnow out maybe some of the the less trustworthy products. But I can't bet one way or the other. I think there's a both a positive and negative for the future. I hope it could go to the positive direction, So I'm going to just pick up on Matt’s positive outlook because I do also hope and I do think that's where wellness is heading with health and wellness kind of converging more and more. And that medical grade expertise and that clinical efficacy are becoming a lot more important. I don't think any brand will be able to get away with any kind of elusive concepts here. I think they need to be more uniquely defined with greater efficacy, with greater long term kind of innovation perspectives that will enhance enrich, improve consumers quality of life rather than kind of short product lifecycles of of brands and products and gimmicks that disappear. Right. So I think this long term component and that kind of medical grade in that clinical backing is going to start being more and more pervasive in wellness in the future. Well, maybe with all of this information, it'll be one of our viewers who in ten years will be leading the pack on wellness. Thank you all for joining me today. Thank you, Jessica.