Shelley Brindle - From the HBO Boardroom to City Hall

Ever wondered what it's like to transition from a high-flying corporate career to a fulfilling role in public service? Well, you're about to find out. Join us as we sit down with Shelly Brindle, the mayor of Westfield, New Jersey, and former executive at HBO. Our conversation is an illuminating look at her journey from a single-parent home to the C-suite at HBO, and eventually to her mission of making a difference in her community as mayor. Shelly opens up about her experiences, challenges, and the important lessons she's learned along the way.

As we navigate through our conversation, we also delve into the heart of transformational leadership and the essence of a strong company culture. Shelly shares her insights from leading HBO through a time of significant industry transition, with the rise of streaming services. She highlights the importance of preparing for change, embracing transparency, and empowering others. Our chat also explores HBO's journey through the shift from traditional cable distribution to embracing the new trend of streaming services.

Finally, we discuss Shelly's decision to leave her corporate role and run for mayor. We touch on her motivations, the challenges she faced as a professional woman in politics, and the legacy she aims to leave. Our conversation goes beyond her political career as we talk about the importance of empathy, the value of empowering employees, and her experiences of prioritizing family and happiness over corporate America. Join us for this inspiring and insightful conversation, and be prepared to see leadership in a whole new light. The journey from boardroom to local government might be less straight and narrow than you think.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:06

Hey hikers, the turkeys have taken over the trail so, in honor of their Thanksgiving hustle, we're bringing back one enjoyable episode from Season 1 for your holiday pleasure. We'll be back next Tuesday, november 28th, with an exciting conversation featuring Daisy Joplin, the fantastic classical rock violinist. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and a special thank you to those delectable turkeys. Unless you're a vegan or vegetarian. In that case, a big thank you to all of the delicious tofu furkeys out there. Okay, first I will start off with my obligatory. Are you okay with being recorded on a podcast?

Speaker 1: 0:43

Yes, I am.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Well, there goes that liability. This is. I Took a Hike. I'm your host, darren Mass, founder of business therapy group in Parktime, wilderness Philosopher. Here we step out of the boardrooms and home offices and into the great outdoors where the hustle of entrepreneurship meets the rustle of nature. In this episode I chat with the mayor of Westfield, new Jersey, and former C-suite executive at HBO, shelly Brindle. Our topics include growing up in a single-parent home, challenging the All Boys Executive Club, rising to the political occasion and so much more. There was so much inspiration when I took a hike with Shelly Brindle. You are the Westfield mayor. Yes, mayor, shelly Brindle, if I may, what is your salary? A dollar, a?

Speaker 1: 1:35

year. A dollar a year and I'm not allowed to cash the check, so just saying.

Speaker 2: 1:42

You're not allowed to cash the check. But what does that mean? The town has an open balance of currently what five?

Speaker 1: 1:48

Six dollars. Six dollars, exactly All right.

Speaker 2: 1:50

So there's a six dollar open balance. You're not allowed to so essentially, the accountants are not allowed to balance the books.

Speaker 1: 1:56

You're absolutely right, I haven't really thought about that. Yeah, this could be a liability, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:01

So clearly. In order to have this altruistic nature to be the mayor of a town, volunteer your time. Yes, you have had to have some extensive business success in your life.

Speaker 1: 2:14

Yes.

Speaker 2: 2:15

So why don't we take a look back at what you did prior to being a mayor and we'll finally wind up on what it's like to be a mayor and the challenges I can imagine in dealing with people, especially opposing opinions?

Speaker 1: 2:33

Yes, and really in the insights between private and public sector, which have been really interesting. But if we want to go way, way back prior to my, even my career, before being mayor because I'm always intrigued by what life decisions people have made or where they grew up, that kind of informed, ultimately, the path that they chose, and I think it wasn't until actually I became mayor that I started reflecting back and figured, oh, that's probably where I ended up here. So my dad was an Air Force pilot and he was killed in Vietnam when I was six years old. Oh, wow, so my mom and I had two older sisters. My mom picked us up from where we were living in Nevada at the time, this small town in Virginia, and I realized I only grew up with women in the house. So we were like a pack of four women and I tell this to the Girl Scouts actually. So there were never any boy chores or girl chores in our house, they were just chores. And so, you know, did it all, cut in the grass, clean out the garbage a whole bit, and then, I think only later that was definitely informative, because there was never any sense of where women belong versus men belong. And then, you know, in college I became a football manager and I was on a full scholarship for working with the football team at the University of Virginia.

Speaker 2: 3:55

Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: 3:56

Yeah, where, once again, I was one of the few women in the arena, if you will, and I'll be honest with you. I was a good student at school, but I wasn't an exceptional student and I like to tell people I didn't even get into the business school at UVA because I realized my brain thinks much more creatively and I'm not the finance person or the accounting person, because I do better when there aren't constraints with what you can do, and that's what I realized when I got into the business world. I get hyper focused on results and I was always the one that good morning, able to really identify, like what was the primary priorities of what we were trying to accomplish and then zero in on what needs to happen to drive that ball forward. Eventually that led just I don't know, I just ended up delivering results. I moved to New York and I started in a marketing job at HBO and I ended up pretty much doing almost every job you could do from, you know, marketing, overseeing research to product development, to ultimately getting to the C-suite where I was running the EVP of domestic distribution and marketing, where I was overseeing pretty much the domestic revenue for the company.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us. Discover more episodes at hightokahikecom, or to recommend an adventurous guest, apply to be a sponsor, discover books along the trail, or to simply drop us a line. Let's take a step back. So you grew up in a house with four girls. I have three daughters and my wife. I can only imagine what that house is, especially as a single parent house. Yes, lots of strife, lots of screaming and not enough hairbrushes.

Speaker 1: 5:44

Yes, you know it well, I can tell you in my life every morning wears the hairbrush.

Speaker 2: 5:52

I have relegated a hairbrush on a chain so I can imagine what that house was like. More power to your mom, because to be a single parent first of all is extremely challenging, daunting. You have to earn, you have to work and feed and take care of all your children. So that's an amazing accomplishment right there, and I hope you thank your mother throughout all of this.

Speaker 1: 6:15

Oh she knows, and you know, and we didn't have a lot of money because back then Well, how could you? Yeah, and the military didn't offer the same benefits that they might offer families today, but it's never enough. But yes, we had these major drag out screaming fights, but we were also like in it together and we'd sit around the dinner table and figure out how we're going to get money for my sister's prom dress, I mean. So it became this very we're all in this together, like you know, how are we going to figure this out? So, but yeah, I think in hindsight, when I became the first female and only female executive in the C-suite at HBO and then later to become the first female mayor of my town, I can't help but think that those early experiences in my family somewhat informed that path.

Speaker 2: 7:06

Oh well, of course, all of the experiences, especially in early childhood and to adolescence, shape who we are today. Right, Sometimes we like to escape who we are.

Speaker 1: 7:16

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: 7:17

But that's never going to happen, right? There are times where the words out of my mouth and the voice that I hear in my brain is my father the one you probably swear you'd never be Swore swore I would not be like him. I respected him, but I swore I would be different. I'd be more present for my kids, which I have been. But sometimes I say those dad jokes and say guess what I said Use your head for more than just a hat rack.

Speaker 1: 7:45

What do you make sense All right.

Speaker 2: 7:47

So you have a strong background in essentially surviving right. Fending for yourself and a family that big with one single parent that gets you to college. You were an okay student and guess what? Most successful people were just okay students.

Speaker 1: 8:03

That's right.

Speaker 2: 8:04

Myself included. I was just an okay student at best. And then you get hired at HBO. Being a female is a challenge in a very stuffy corporate world. You are an executive in the C suite. What were some of your biggest accomplishments at HBO?

Speaker 1: 8:24

Well, that's a good question and it's funny just to back up a little bit about what you said about being a woman, because what was interesting is that at HBO at the time you know I'm dating myself now in the late 18, late 80s it was a very young company and fairly progressive, so it was actually a good place to be a woman in a media environment that was rapidly changing. So there's a lot of opportunity for women. It's funny, I didn't really realize the impact Good morning, good morning. And the challenge is, honestly, until I got into the C suite and I remember thinking, gosh, you know, we don't have there's no challenges with women getting advancing, because I kept moving forward. And then I got in the C suite and I was laughing, I'm like, oh, this is what's happening up here. So that was very interesting, but really my probably my accomplishment. I was always a bit of a transformational person, so I was always given things that were somewhat broken and trying to fix it, and so really it was when I moved into that C suite role where I was given the responsibility for the revenue of the company and, quite frankly, it was at a time when Netflix was, you know, still delivering red envelopes to people's houses. But it was pretty obvious where that future was going, and so when I took over that job, historically our distribution partners were the traditional cable companies, you know Comcast and Cox and all of those.

Speaker 2: 9:59

I know them all too well, coming from telecom, and the challenges in working with monster companies.

Speaker 1: 10:05

Exactly. And so when I took over I was like, okay, but, and we had a, you know, a company a lot of our sales and marketing folks had been there a really long time and I said we have to prepare ourselves for a future where our distribution partners are Apple and Google and Facebook and everything else and we need to make sure that we're really equipped, both organizationally and strategically, to really capture that. And I remember looking around at all the things that are all great and I'd been there a long time too. And that's when you know, you realize you can't fire everybody, but you can inspire everyone.

Speaker 2: 10:46

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Speaker 1: 11:18

And it really is about getting people vested in that outcome. And I'll never forget the big meeting we did with the layoff people. We reorganized, integrated kind of sales and marketing into these different teams, provided a different level of accountability for results. And I really believe in my leadership mantra has always been around three principles, and it really is. I always say it's transparency, empowerment and accountability, and what I mean by that. It's very important to be very, very transparent with the entire team. Like I think a lot of leaders will sometimes communicate in silos so like, oh, this team only works on this, so I'm going to give them all the information they need for this and then this team works on this, so they'll only know about this. But I wanted people to be able to be able to respond and make decisions opportunistically when they have them, and the only way you can do that is if you have full information about what is driving the business. So I wanted the leaders that were running let's just hit the Comcast team if they were in a Comcast meeting and there was an opportunity, a growth opportunity for HBO within that account, it might sound like a great idea for Comcast, but whatever that decision was could have impact on the other pieces of the business. If they didn't understand that, they would be going in there saying yes, yes, yes, but actually the larger benefit would be a no. So the reason it was important to be transparent and so we would have these team meetings and we would share everything, for every single piece of business, with everyone, so that then they could go into those places and feel vested in that larger outcome and make decisions based upon the results. But the third leg of that stool, which I think is the hardest and most often ignored, is accountability. And if you don't hold people accountable for delivering very clear on objectives, both subjectively and quantifiably, the other two things don't matter and everything breaks down. Because you know it's a cliche, but it's true You're only as good as your weakest link. Right, right.

Speaker 2: 13:28

This is true. So you said a quote that I loved you can't fire everybody, but you can inspire them. Yes, based on that quote, you and I are very aligned. Believe in people.

Speaker 1: 13:38

Yes.

Speaker 2: 13:38

Right. You wouldn't be where you're at today without the help of others supporting you, and the only way you can gain support of others is to be likable, charismatic and be in the service of supporting those very same people. That's right. So would it be fair to say that you are a cultural leader?

Speaker 1: 13:57

Yeah, I'm very passionate about culture because to me, culture is everything. People is everything. You know. People married with the right culture is what delivers exceptional outcomes. And my job honestly and it's not people don't believe it, but my role whenever I took on a new position is to make myself feel relevant and it's funny.

Speaker 2: 14:19

Hold on, I'm going to pause you right there. So the purpose of everything that I've done since the sale of my company has been the pursuit of relevance. It's a very important word and you got there without me asking you. So let's talk about relevance and what relevance means.

Speaker 1: 14:36

I think it's in two, and actually there's a part where you want to be relevant, but as a leader, I think a goal should be to make yourself irrelevant, because in so doing, what that means you're doing is that you're surrounding yourself with people who are super smart mostly smarter than me who have core competencies that are compliment whatever I do, and if you empower them in a way to take ownership of the decisions, at the end of the day, the role of the leader should be like you know what my work is done here and they can kind of go from there, and the ironic part is a lot of leaders are afraid of that because they feel like they then will become themselves personally irrelevant. But by doing that you every single experience of mine is, when you create a culture like that of empowering these people and giving them ownership of the outcomes, you deliver exceptional outcomes, and then guess what happens. As a leader, then you get picked to choose to go and do something else.

Speaker 2: 15:36

So I love that. So, as a coach, I mentor my CEO clients that if you cannot take a vacation and leave your company for at least two weeks, preferably a month, then it's not a healthy company. So, in line with what you're saying about irrelevance, you have to be able to step away, trust your people to do the job and the task and be able to support your customer and themselves without your involvement to have a healthy company or, in this case, you want to make yourself irrelevant. To be relevant, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1: 16:15

I think a lot of leaders are afraid and there's another kind of similar equation in that which I said. I was always the consider the. I was always the one never afraid to ask the dumbest question in the room.

Speaker 2: 16:30

It was the same. In fact, having ADHD, I was also the class clown and I wasn't afraid to embarrass myself, which you met one of my daughters yesterday. But it's that type of thinking, especially as a child, that develops strong leaders, the ability to not be. You're asking any question, regardless of if it's quote, unquote, dumb or not. That's courage.

Speaker 1: 16:55

Well, you realize, when you're not afraid to ask the dumb question, you know what. Everybody else has the same question, they're just afraid to ask it. And so I was always the one that would say you know people, they'd come in and share this great strategy. And I'm like, okay, that sounds great, people would be enthralled with it. And I'm like, okay, how does that make sense? And how are we making money? And suddenly everybody's like, huh, and it's funny. People would say how do you have the courage to take so many risks? And I always felt like not taking risks was more fearful for me than taking them, because, going back to your point about relevance, it's like for me it was always about pushing things forward. But the irony is I kept thinking like you know what fire me for doing the right thing? I take that any day of the week and I used to tell that to my team moral fortitude. Yeah, moral fortitude. And guess what I kept getting promoted and that's what I tell people is like sometimes, our own fears they're keep us, keep us back from achieving what it is we really aspire to do. And I think that was the other going back with make yourself irrelevant. To become relevant, try to become a bit more fearless to actually get to the place where you want to go. And a lot of people don't make that connection.

Speaker 2: 18:14

So fear, uncertainty and doubt is you know, the fud or the fud factor is crippling for most Not many, but most people being afraid to ask your manager a question or disagree with a directive. But in the right, way In the right way, one of the books that I have all my clients read is a book by Patrick Lincioni called Getting Naked.

Speaker 1: 18:35

It's a great book.

Speaker 2: 18:37

I recommend that you read it or anyone reads it, for that matter and no, they are not sponsoring this show, but I believe in this so heavily. I've listened to it hundreds, if not a thousand times already, and it talks about removing the three biggest fears that hold us back from being successful the fear of vulnerability, the fear of embarrassment and the fear of failure. And it's a business fable that demonstrates the always be selling mentality and jumping in. As you know, always start consulting and assuming the client. But if you can get past those three biggest fears, you can find much greater success, because your client will appreciate the fact that you said you don't really agree with their marketing, Right? So it's a very important theme and it obviously worked for you throughout your career. Now I will ask you a pointed question. Do you believe that you as a female in the corporate world in the 80s, in the 90s, was looked at a little more heavily as a checkbox in the time? I?

Speaker 1: 19:45

would actually say gosh. I have to say, ironically, I would think I was less than a checkbox earlier in my career than I was later in my career. I'll never forget, actually, them telling me when I was being considered for this role and it was running and typically there had been a separate sales organization, a separate marketing organization they were combining all of it and putting it under me and that role that certainly ran the distribution arm of the organization had only ever been led by men and it was always on our executive floor, on the C-suite. So not only did I get that job, I got a bigger job than any of them had ever had before and they actually asked our HR are you actually going to put her on the executive floor?

Speaker 2: 20:29

Ah, so that was a real conversation. Yeah, you were made aware of that conversation at the time.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Yes, Luckily the HR person told me that in like incredulous like can you believe? People are asking me are you actually going to put her on their floor? No, other women were there. This was in 2010.

Speaker 2: 20:46

It wasn't like it was way past when that would be allowed. To be honest, the fact that the HR individual brought that up is technically a no-no in the HR world. But, you had a great relationship with him.

Speaker 1: 21:00

We did and I think he was doing me a bit of a favor, Like okay, just so you know, this is kind of what you're walking into. And it was just a really interesting dynamic because I definitely felt like when I got up there, I'm like, oh, who doesn't belong? No, you can tell. I felt like I was in intrusion on a club.

Speaker 2: 21:20

So I love that. I love that because you were told you can't do something and you use that as drive. Absolutely, oh yeah you don't want me here. I'm going to prove to you not only can I do your job, I'll do it better, more efficient and stronger than you.

Speaker 1: 21:36

That's right and you know what, and we had some of the best performance we had in 30 years. And then it led, obviously going back to that conversation I had earlier about who our clients of the future were going to be. Well, then it came all about streaming, and so really it was about leading an organization to really kind of the streaming future. And when he asked me earlier, some of the biggest accomplishments I had was one was changing the culture that we talked about so importantly to one that was more innovative, I like to think, which, ultimately, is what led to the ability for streaming. But and so anyway. So, and once HBO Go launched, and then HBO Now launched, and now HBO brand is Max. Don't even get me started on that.

Speaker 2: 22:21

Wait, you just glossed over this so what was your contribution in HBO Go and streaming services?

Speaker 1: 22:27

Well, think about it. We saw, you know, netflix coming, we saw where things were going and all of our revenue, 95% of the company's revenue, was tied to traditional cable distributors who did not want us going around that traditional distribution mechanism. Because most people, a lot of people, don't realize. You know, hbo was not a retailer, we are a wholesaler. We sold our content to our product, to Comcast or those of the world who then sent it to charge the customer. That does make sense yes and so people used to always ask me if I got HBO for free. I'm like I don't know, because that means Comcast would have to give it to me for free.

Speaker 2: 23:06

One of your perks, you could save $9.99 a month.

Speaker 1: 23:08

Yeah, exactly no. So but that's really important to remember because we are in classic innovators dilemma, because all of our revenue was coming from this traditional distribution which we could see was becoming less relevant in the future. So how do you migrate? And a public company, a part of Time Warner, how do you migrate those revenues in your business model where you're not really? They call you a trading analog dollars for digital dimes.

Speaker 2: 23:36

Yes.

Speaker 1: 23:37

And that was.

Speaker 2: 23:38

Analog dollars for digital dimes. Did you say that Time Warner owned HBO?

Speaker 1: 23:41

Yeah, which is now, of course, a home by discovery. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:45

So I want to take a step back because this is really fascinating to me. What was the boardroom conversation like when you're looking as HBO at a threat like Netflix, which I can imagine in Blockbuster was very different there was probably a bunch of nah.

Speaker 1: 24:02

This will never do, this will never work.

Speaker 2: 24:05

Yeah, but HBO, no way you saw that this was a threat actor.

Speaker 1: 24:10

Yeah, and it was interesting. I think it was initially dismissed and some of it was posturing, some of it was legit, I think even Jeff Fuchus. There's a book that just came out it's not TV, it's HBO, which I was quoted in many cases, for better or for worse, jeff Fuchus was a chairman, even called them the Albanian army, like Netflix, like it was a little bit dismissive.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Oh, wow. So similar posturing as Blockbuster. We're the big company, there's no way it'll take us down.

Speaker 1: 24:40

That's exactly right, but I mean really, Netflix wasn't an entertainment company. They were a tech company and they had data and the big difference was they knew who their customers were and could serve up programs and shows based upon those needs. We didn't know who our customers were.

Speaker 2: 25:00

Because you were a wholesale. You were a wholesale. You're a customer with, technically, the cable.

Speaker 1: 25:04

Comcast dude. Who are you?

Speaker 2: 25:05

know stuffy suits.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Exactly. That in and of itself was a scary proposition, right? So I think the aha moment was when Netflix bought the show. Oh my God, what's the White House show? House of Cards House of Cards when Netflix bought, because HBO was in the running for that. And when Netflix came in and they bought that show and not only, you know, typically we would pilot shows and then you know, you determine whether you're going to spend the money on the continued investment, whatever, netflix went in and bought House of Cards, full season, no pilot required, like it was just, and everyone's like, oh my gosh, they're crazy, you know. But what that did, most importantly, it sent a message to the creative community that Netflix was a place where they could do business independently and freely, and that's something that HBO would always pride itself on. So I think that was the really beginning of really the relevance of Netflix in terms of the Hollywood creative community seeing them as a legitimate distribution play for their shows.

Speaker 2: 26:11

What I imagine happened was HBO and the entire digital world looked at Netflix as that disruptive kid in class asking that stupid question without fear. And then the stuffy business people said oh wait, we need to pay attention.

Speaker 1: 26:27

When you're part of a public company and you're responsible for quarterly shareholder returns and you know the technical investment. And so the little backstory about our Our investment is so we had our own team in Seattle working on our own you know platform, if you will, of the streaming platform. We thought we could do it on our own but I mean, it wasn't our DNA, we were each but was not a tech company and ultimately, as great as they were, they weren't able to deliver what we needed by when we needed at a time, certainly before. I remember ForgetPork, the shareholder meeting. So the big moment I'll never forget that I laugh about. I was going to a Google company, but Google used to. I don't know if they still do. They had these conferences called Zeitgeist and I went to the Google Zeitgeist conference where they brought in all these you know interesting speakers and whatever. And I meet this guy who works for Major League Baseball, but he worked for this company called. It was a Major League Baseball Advanced Media. They called him Bantech and his name was Kenny. It's in the book actually.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Kenny from Bantech. Kenny from Bantech, that is the perfect name for a baseball guy. Yeah, kenny from Bantech.

Speaker 1: 27:35

And Kenny. I was telling him we're talking about a dilemma with, like, we needed to launch a streaming service but we didn't have a technical platform and we needed to launch it by this date. And he goes we know Bantech has been doing this with WWE and he told us exactly how they were doing it and how you were enabling current distributors, the whole bit. He said we'll meet with you. So I went back and told our CEO, richard Plepler. I said I might have found a solution for us, and so he gave us permission. Me and my partner in crime went down to the Google the Bantech offices, which were in Chelsea, and had this kind of covert meeting with their CTO and my friend, with Kenny from Bantech and others Literally I don't know. Within five days, hbo announced a relationship with Bantech and they created a platform to go. So all because I had gone to that conference, met Kenny from Bantech and it really it was literally announced the shareholder meeting was, I think, the following week, so they announced the launch of the service at a shareholder meeting Before it was even developed. I don't think before you.

Speaker 2: 28:42

The contract was signed with Bantech, so you are essentially the person responsible for HBO Go. Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us. Discover more episodes at hightokahikecom, or to recommend an adventurous guest, apply to be a sponsor, discover books along the trail, or to simply drop us a line. Well, I mean it's you and your partner in crime.

Speaker 1: 29:04

It takes a village. I think I was instrumental in finding that platform that enabled it, but clearly it's. You know it takes a village, but that was a pretty key moment for us.

Speaker 2: 29:15

So it was there at the meeting at 118th Avenue the building. I know all too fondly 116th Avenue, 6th Avenue oh, so that's the one in Chelsea.

Speaker 1: 29:26

Oh, yeah, yeah, you're thinking the one in Chelsea. Exactly, I'm thinking the HBO offices. Yes, okay.

Speaker 2: 29:31

So the one in Chelsea, the Google building, 118th Avenue. I spent two years of my career in that building on the eighth floor. I was at a company that did telecom services and it was a big switching facility where millions of call minutes went through that switch for commercial businesses every second. Wow, and Google bought the building and I remember being in a meeting with very high ranking executives at Google. The CEO of the company I worked for, which is a multi-billion dollar company at the time, said we really want to renew our lease. Will you let us do that? And Stone faced the executive. The leading executive from Google looked at the CEO of my company, who I very much respected, and said no, we need a break room on your floor.

Speaker 1: 30:23

Stop it yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:24

And then I watched the CEO of my company literally cry because back then it was, I believe, 2004 or 2005,. Moving a telecom switching facility that processed that many minutes is an impossible task. As luck would have it, digital internet-based calling came out and we were able to do it fast forward with new gear, much smaller footprint, but, yeah, that was the first time I saw an adult man cry. That's crazy it was rough, but I remember him saying no, we need a break room.

Speaker 1: 30:57

That is hilarious.

Speaker 2: 30:58

Yeah, so it turned into a room with a kitchen and slides and all the Google-esque and ugly cultural it did.

Speaker 1: 31:05

Yeah, so, funny.

Speaker 2: 31:07

So with a lot of history in that building.

Speaker 1: 31:09

Yeah, so, anyway. So that was you know. And then, once we launched HBIL that's why I said my work, I think my work is done here.

Speaker 2: 31:17

So that's why you left. You were ready, checked out.

Speaker 1: 31:20

A couple of things. I mean, I turned 50. I'd been there for 27 years. I felt like I had accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish and I definitely wanted to have the opportunity for a second chapter that I just felt like had some social impact and, honestly, my kids at the time were like fourth, eighth and tenth grade. I thought and I said, you know, what they needed.

Speaker 2: 31:42

You.

Speaker 1: 31:43

Well, I didn't need me as much as I needed them and I just felt like you know, they'd only known me as the mom that was commuting every day in the New York City and traveling and so forth. So but they were also really proud of everything I had done and I felt it was really to me. It's also I love my job, I love my culture, I love the people and I always say it's really important for your kids If you're going to work, they need to see that you're enjoying what you do, because if not, they perceive it as you're making a choice to do something that you know you're making a choice to do something that you hate versus spending time with them. So for me, it was always important that my kids saw how much I love my job, the value I got out of it, and I brought them into the city with me as much as I could. So that was really important.

Speaker 2: 32:35

So they saw a strong, hardworking female in the corporate world who cared about them. But your realization that life has to come first came after 50. You accomplished a lot of great tasks, you made a great name for yourself, and then what happened?

Speaker 1: 32:54

So then I used to imagine my it sounds terrible, but my funeral and eulogy.

Speaker 2: 33:01

I do that too, by the way you do. So I was. I do that too, right, I'd like a lot of people to show up.

Speaker 1: 33:06

Right, but then it's not just a lot of people who show up.

Speaker 2: 33:09

Yes, there's an A list.

Speaker 1: 33:11

And that was imagining at the time. Okay, my CEO would be delivering the eulogy and it would be filled with all HBO people and I said I don't necessarily know if I want my. You know, shelley got Game of Thrones from your TV to your iPhone as to be you know what was on my tombstone. I just felt like there should be something that was Something more, something more, something that was truly meaningful. Yeah, so I decided to leave, and just which was? You know, people don't do that, just leave their C-suite job and just figure out what that looked like. And so I was able to spend more time at home, more time in our town of Westfield, where I'd lived at the time for 23 years. Honestly, my world had really evolved down in New York City. Westfield, for me, was a place where I took my kids to their sports activities on weekends. I felt I was able to kind of see it with fresh eyes and I realized we had a beautiful, historic downtown that had a lot of vacancies, that was feeling the impact of so many Main Street. America downtowns are, from, you know, digital shopping, and they never really figured out that pivot from brick and mortar to what a future of downtown looks like. And so I just started asking questions. You know like oh well, what's the plan? Basically, what's the plan? Because it's not a quick fix. It's something about changing the ecosystem of your community to support these businesses for the long term.

Speaker 2: 34:38

You did what you do best. You asked the stupid question that everyone was thinking, but too afraid to ask.

Speaker 1: 34:43

I don't even know if they were thinking that. I'll be honest with you, I just think no one really. You know, it takes a lot of political will to make significant changes and it's hard, anyway. So I start asking a lot of questions and then someone said you know what? And there was an election coming up and they said why don't you consider running for mayor? I'm like no, no, no, deal with the people, no, but can someone else come and fix all? these things you know and then I don't know it. Just you know, when you tell your kids you know you can't rely on others to do the work you don't want to do, like I didn't want to be the mayor and I told them I'm very open, I don't want to be the mayor, I just want from a big CZE job. And now I'm going to enter local politics for a free job that you know comes with a lot of, you know, headache. I mean honestly because of just the it's politics right.

Speaker 2: 35:36

Yeah, it's politics.

Speaker 1: 35:37

On all aspects and putting yourself out there running for office in your community, all that stuff. So that was you know, and one thing led to another, and that was my daughter was really the impotet. She was the senior in high school. Then at the time, you know you can't rely on others to do the work. And then you know, I watched. I think I'm the only one that took Barack Obama seriously when he said you know, if you want to make a difference, get a clipboard, get some signatures and run for office. And then I honestly I was like, well, why not me Seriously, like oh, the bug was planted.

Speaker 2: 36:11

The model was there, the goal the working professional woman there, an HR person came and said you know, you're a female, that's what they're talking about. You can't do this.

Speaker 1: 36:21

Yeah, that drove you further, you know, yeah, you're probably right, and I was again.

Speaker 2: 36:28

We are the same person we grew up as we were kids. That mentality, that strive, that and I'm a fighter.

Speaker 1: 36:33

I am, and I just it was. It was like why not me? And like, honestly, it felt very selfish that I, I don't want to do that and so, and so, luckily, we had a great team and we all won and and it's been well, you won you won twice.

Speaker 2: 36:50

You are the first female mayor in the over 300 year existence of this town the founding of this town. I will say, all political aspects aside, you are a great leader in this town you inspire many. As a father of daughters, I'm very happy to see you as our mayor.

Speaker 1: 37:05

I'll be, I'll be. I'd be lying if I didn't tell you, though, running for local office has been the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire career.

Speaker 2: 37:14

The hardest thing you've ever done in your career. What do you hate most about it?

Speaker 1: 37:17

The politics, the politics. I told someone I like the job, I don't like the industry. You know if that's a fair thing to say. Unfortunately it's. Sometimes when you make decisions it's hard to decipher our are the. Are the objections legitimate objections or are there some that are just politically driven because?

Speaker 2: 37:40

Or emotionally or yeah, and trying we have. We have a lot. I've been to some of those town meetings. You have a lot of people that are fundamentally unhinged with any change and you can understand it, because they grew up in this town, this is their childhood town, and to see the town change yeah. Right. How would you like it if someone moved next door tore? Down the entire block and then put up a new house.

Speaker 1: 38:03

Yeah, you can understand it Right.

Speaker 2: 38:06

But then there are some times, I imagine, you just want to take someone by the shoulders and shake them.

Speaker 1: 38:10

Well, yeah, you know I will say the job being mayor has required a lot more empathy, which I think has been really good for me in terms of, you know, growth. The other thing going back to like why I ran, there was all of that, but there was also an insatiable little bit of a curiosity to understand do the same leadership principles that were successful in the private sector apply in the public sector? And you know, and I realized they do. And because, at the end of the day, it's all about people. So the focus has really been on the town employees Because, at the end of the day, if you have that same notion where your town employees whether it's police, fire, public works, court, anybody who touches the public, right, if they're feeling valued, if they're feeling acknowledged, if they feel like they're part of something larger, you know what then they are going to take a lot of pride in what they do and that's going to show outwardly to the community, and so that and it's interesting because you know there's a lot of union employees, so you don't have the same levers of incentivization in the public sector that you do in the private- Well, you have the people. But you have the people.

Speaker 2: 39:27

People tend to want to do the best job that they can, otherwise they're just schlubs.

Speaker 1: 39:31

That's why I said no one. I don't think anybody anywhere goes up and says you know what? I don't, I don't. I feel like I'm being very mediocre today.

Speaker 2: 39:38

There's one guy.

Speaker 1: 39:39

There's a few.

Speaker 2: 39:40

Exactly, yeah, there's somebody out there who says I just want to be yeah right.

Speaker 1: 39:44

But I think most people do want to feel rewarded and valued and acknowledged right.

Speaker 2: 39:49

Well, it's the herd mentality, right. We want to be part of a group, we want to be part of something bigger than us. Yes, and really the best incentive you can give an employee or, in this case, a worker for the town, is a pat on the back publicly praising in public criticizing in private, because that lasts far longer. Feeling like you're the hero, like you scored that home run for the day yeah. That's intrinsic in us from early childhood.

Speaker 1: 40:16

They also want to feel honestly that someone has their back. And I'll never forget the most perceptive conversation I had when I first started, because you know I come in thinking I'm going to bring all this private sector stuff to town hall and you realize A even though I ran, you know a four and a half billion dollar P&L like that, the P&L and municipal government and finance there's nothing relatable.

Speaker 2: 40:40

No.

Speaker 1: 40:41

And you're like. So it's funny, the things I thought I would bring in are different from what I thought. But one guy said to me I didn't understand, like when residents would come up with problems or challenges and the answer to them was, hey, sorry, we can't do that, as opposed to saying you know we can't do that, but this is what you might be able to do and try to. You know, try to get to yes, offer a solution. Offer a solution and I just get to yes, culture, that I talk about it. And he said to me I asked that question and he says you know why, mayor? Because you never know what an elected official is going to sell you down the river, which I was so glad he said that to me that's a very political statement. But what he was saying and it's true a lot of times these public employees and I hope people that listen to this think about this next time is that if they go out on a limb, they never know if, like who they're helping or rewarding somehow might get back to the mayor or another elected official and claim I don't know, they didn't do this or they did this or you did, you know. So it's just easier for them to stay in their box, to stay in their lane, to stay in their lane. But what I discovered over the last few years when they've seen, when they've seen me have the courage and fortitude to stand up to public objections or always have their back, they're putting themselves out there. They are now becoming very solution oriented.

Speaker 2: 42:07

You're empowering them to step a little bit more outside of their comfort zone.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Because they know I'm always going to have their back. And so, therefore, and I tell them, I got you back every time, and you've seen it in the police, in the fire, and so what gives me such pleasure? It's a lot of stuff. The public sees it, but they don't know what it is a result of. But, and we've done that, we've invested in equipment, we provide them automation, we provide them tools, and when you do that, people say they're investing in me, right? So therefore, I'm going to go forward. So a lot of the progress you might see in town isn't anything that I've done specifically. It's the things that we put in place to let our employees do their best jobs.

Speaker 2: 42:54

So one thing that I would do and I realize that you're running the town as if it is a company, right, culturally. Yes, you're treating people with the respect you're giving them the power, empowering them with what they need. And it does show, I will say, from police the fire to the new equipment, to the way that the police respond to you. The police don't harass you, they're happy to see you If you have an issue. They're welcoming, they want to speak to you. I've actually become friends with several of the police officers, so you treat people well. It bleeds out right. Happy employees breed happy customers. You can see a smile over the phone. I absolutely believe that. But sometimes you have to remind people. So one trick I would do in my corporate business was at the end of the year, before bonus time, we would show and demonstrate that we covered 100% of your health care. Just a little reminder. We put you through training and you could look at that as almost like a corporate mentality, but no, the purpose of that was to remind everybody of what they have and to appreciate it, because all too often in personal and business we stop appreciating things.

Speaker 1: 44:05

Yes.

Speaker 2: 44:06

We stop realizing what others do for us to empower us, and I think that's very beneficial. Is you do that with the town? There is, at some point I get a town letter of all the accomplishments and it's very beautifully made, it's well done, it's well marketed, and I sit there and I read it and I say, oh wow, I didn't know that, but that's great. That's awesome we bought a new fire truck that will benefit me. I hope I never have to use it. Yeah, but that'll benefit me.

Speaker 1: 44:34

I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that whole purpose of that was to make the residents feel better about their tax pay. They're what they pay for.

Speaker 2: 44:42

Oh, we do pay a lot of taxes.

Speaker 1: 44:44

We pay a lot of taxes.

Speaker 2: 44:45

We pay a lot of taxes.

Speaker 1: 44:46

Exactly, but that's exactly right. It's to make them like okay, I'm getting my money, well, my money's worth, to the degree we can do that in our state.

Speaker 2: 44:55

Well, everyone's got to speak of taxes. Everyone has a way to check off if they value or if they're getting value out of their taxes. For me three kids in public schools I value my taxes Right Now. I've had this conversation with Christie, my wife. When do we move? Yes, Right, Are we lifelong here? Yeah, Are we going to pay that increasing tax bill?

Speaker 1: 45:16

Right.

Speaker 2: 45:17

Or do we move after the kids graduate from college? Right, it's a very touchy subject right now. Yes, christie, and I love this town. We'll see. We'll see. Hopefully I do well enough in life to want to stay here.

Speaker 1: 45:31

Well, I hope so, and now we've got all this amazing investment coming into town.

Speaker 2: 45:36

So in this small community there are so many successful, business-minded people. It's amazing. It is amazing. It is amazing the wealth of knowledge and success and again in my pursuit of finding, is there such thing as success that's not tied to wealth? Right and the relevance factor.

Speaker 1: 45:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:58

So what is your definition of success?

Speaker 1: 46:00

You know, I think it's about impact. I think it's about what impact have you made in your community, as you define it, and that could be your community, whether it's you know your family, where you live. But I just think beyond material things, and that's I just want to be able to say my husband thinks I'm crazy because I've, no matter what I do, I don't think I've ever done enough.

Speaker 2: 46:30

And I think that's a record all husbands think their wives are crazy and all wives think their husbands are crazy. If you were to ask Chrissy if I'm crazy, she'll say yes.

Speaker 1: 46:38

Yeah, so, yeah. So I just think it's about impact, and have you done everything you can do to make a difference in the world?

Speaker 2: 46:48

So the story? Yeah. So do you associate wealth or money with success? No, not at all, and actually Isn't it sad how many people do.

Speaker 1: 46:57

Yeah, and it's funny. I just met with all the third graders yesterday. As you well know, they're so intrigued by like when I tell them I make a dollar and they want to know how, oh, my daughters came home and they're like dad, you make more money than the mayor.

Speaker 2: 47:12

I said, well, not really.

Speaker 1: 47:15

But I think like and I tell this to women in particular, because I think women tend to be the most vulnerable to it I've never been caught up in the I don't know the privileges or the stature of position, and so, even as I grew in my career at HBO and was earning pretty good money, I never changed how I live. Maybe I went on some great vacations and ate well, but it didn't really change anything. Part of it was I always wanted to be working on my terms and I wanted to be able to walk out the door any day on my terms, and not because I'm beholden to the paycheck. And that's when I said you know, fire me for doing the right thing, I'll take it. I wanted to be able to do that, and so I've just never valued that level of wealth and it's just more about you know, the teachers you meet and those really I see those are the real, those are the people I really respect.

Speaker 2: 48:18

Are you impressed with people who are wealthy Monetarily, that is?

Speaker 1: 48:23

No, the money doesn't impress me. Like, if someone, like, is an innovator and has done really and they took a lot of risk, they happen to make a lot of money because it great, but I'm more impressed with what got them there than I am about the money itself. So, but you know, there's people who are innovators in professions that don't aren't as lucrative. So, no, I'm not, if anything. I'm honest. Honestly, I'm kind of like a hate to say it. I'm almost an anti elitist.

Speaker 2: 48:50

There's nothing wrong with that, because I agree with you. I have met billionaires that are miserable and I have met people that barely make it by, that are so happy, and that's when it clicks and you start realizing I can't take it with. You is true.

Speaker 1: 49:09

Well, there's this book. So I was talking about the innovators dilemma. I don't know if you've ever read that book by Clayton Christensen, nope. So he was coming to an event that we were having and I said, oh, let me make sure I read his books before I go. So I did not read. Oh, I had read the innovators dilemma, but there's another book he had written called how Will you Measure your Life, and that's the book I read, and it was the first book I read. That actually explained my own success to me. But what he said in that book he was now a established author, a very successful professor at Harvard, and he said he went to his 30th year reunion at Harvard and he couldn't figure out why there are so many successful people who are so miserable Alcoholics, divorces, kids who are estranged or whatever it was. So we actually did some research to understand what happened and what he discovered and I think this is true is that a lot of these people, especially those that come out of elite colleges or whatever, they might want to go to the Peace Corps, teach for America, go be a teacher, do whatever they want to do. He said they get the offers from Bain and McKinsey or whoever else. And so they go and they're like, okay, I'm gonna go do that for a couple years and make all the money, and then I'm gonna go pursue what I really want to do, or go start that incubator or whatever it was, and then guess what happens. They get on that hamster wheel and they can't stop. The drug is in their system 30 years later they've, like now in a part where they maybe are reflecting back a little bit and realize they missed the opportunity to do whatever they ever did. So I gave that book to every intern I ever had and I just think it's really important to kind of be clear on that North Star early and not try it's easier said than done, especially if you've got student loans and all that kind of stuff, but I don't know just try to remember what it is that drives you and what makes you happy and try to stay on that path.

Speaker 2: 51:11

As Americans cuz I can only speak from the American standpoint we're programmed at an early age that money is everything. You see all of this marketing flashed in front of your eyes, your brain absorbed it. It's a constant stream of want, want, want, need, need and unfortunately, we've tied money to that feeling. Money and materials Right. I look at money as simply a resource. Do you have enough for you going to run out? Now again, there are plenty of people that live by their means and there are plenty of people that overspend. I think we are an overmaterialized, overspending society, overreaching constantly. And social media, it's all the marketing. And it's unfortunate because the pursuit of true happiness is impossible if you're constantly chasing. Yeah, and that's what we are. We're a society as a whole that's constantly chasing. I'll be happy when this will make me happy if, but we don't live in the moment when the moment is truly up, and it's usually not on your choice.

Speaker 1: 52:15

Right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 52:17

And I'm now 43. I turned 43 recently. You're such a youngster I guess my brain thinks I'm 28. My herniated back occasionally does not Right, but I'm learning how to deal with that, especially as a hank. But yeah, so I did a complete pivot. I went from corporate America to just say you know what, screw it. I'm going to be happy, my success being in my kid's life every day. Because that old man on his deathbed the last few moments, when asked do you have any regrets? That story's been heard. You never hear him say I wish I bought that yacht.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Right.

Speaker 2: 52:57

Right, it's always. I wish I was in my children's lives.

Speaker 1: 53:00

It's very true. It's very true.

Speaker 2: 53:03

So it sounds like and looks like and is similar in your world because you have done that.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Yeah, but it's funny my kids laugh because you know, going from corporate, I'm no longer commuting but the mayor obligation has there's a lot of nights and weekends and so forth.

Speaker 2: 53:22

They're like what I always see you around town. So what's interesting is it truly is a volunteer position and it only pays a dollar. You have to have some sense of savings to be able to do the job, and I wasn't really in the town when the last mayor was here, but I'm fairly certain he had a full-time job and was a mayor.

Speaker 1: 53:43

Correct and most of them do and because, honestly, most people that can't sustain themselves on a volunteer job. And I committed when I ran to do it full-time. Now, keep in mind, when I left HBO the plan wasn't oh, let me go take a full-time job that doesn't pay. That wasn't the conversation I had with my financial advisor, so he's like okay. But going back to that conversation earlier about, for me I just never really valued the big material things and able to save a bunch of money so that we could make the decisions for our family. But you're right, and the challenge, it wasn't a hard thing for me to commit to doing this full-time because I had a really big vision for the town and there was no way you could push that forward with what needed to happen. Doing it on nights and weekends, it just wasn't going to be possible. When you're only able to do it part-time, you're just sustaining, right, and it's like you're more of a If you can sustain.

Speaker 2: 54:41

Right and probably not even sustaining exactly Well, yeah, with the amount of explosive growth this town saw, especially after the pandemic. I mean every single house that was listed, much like other places in America. It was listed, it was upbid, it was swarmed and sold, even still right now, which with such incredibly high rates, I'm shocked.

Speaker 1: 55:02

I mean nobody's moving, and I was very clear also when I ran. It goes back to that point being fearless, Since I didn't really ever want to be the mayor.

Speaker 2: 55:11

I'm not really You're not afraid of being the mayor.

Speaker 1: 55:13

I'm not afraid of being the mayor and I'm not afraid about losing the job. So, as a result, I used to. I would tell people listen, I am not going to be the mayor of the status quo. If that's what you're looking for, he's your guy, it's not me.

Speaker 2: 55:28

That's a great quote. I will not be the mayor of the status quo.

Speaker 1: 55:31

Because I wanted it to be very clear. If I won, I wanted people to know what they were getting. And so when I do these big things, I don't want you to think, oh, I didn't know that. And so, and luckily, we were reelected, and so we keep moving forward.

Speaker 2: 55:47

So are you going to run again in the next cycle? Where's it too soon?

Speaker 1: 55:50

It's too soon. I think I'm very committed to seeing through this big $450 million project that we have in the works.

Speaker 2: 55:59

And what's the timeline for that?

Speaker 1: 56:01

Well, it should break ground late next year. But you know there's a lot of.

Speaker 2: 56:05

Big investment in the town.

Speaker 1: 56:06

Big and huge investment, Big tax infusion, Revenue infusion for the town tax, major public benefits. It reminded me, honestly, doing that negotiation with the Hudson's Bay Company, which is a large North American conglomerate. I felt like I was back in the Comcast boardroom. I really did. You know, at the end of the day, you have to know what is important to each side and come to a place and Do you feel like you won? I feel like the town won and I really do, and that was really what I was, all I really cared about. The big difference is, as I told my old HBO folks, I said in the private sector you kind of say, okay, we're going here and you know, you know you're going to have people who will post up. At the end of the day they get some line because you know it's their job, it's their paycheck. In the public sector, those people go right to social media.

Speaker 2: 57:00

They go right to social media. You're technically not their boss. They're elected to, so you must have the patience of a saint. Actually it's so funny, I really do not Well you had to learn something, just like you have to have empathy.

Speaker 1: 57:15

Yeah, the empathy you learn, you really do try to understand, try to give people the benefit of the doubt. You have a lot of moral fortitude and I think, if anything, I get very committed to things. When I believe they're the right thing to do, I'll tell them, I'll jump on my back, I'm going to take you through this, but you know what, the people that are around you looking at you as a leader to see if you, like you know, waver and your strength gives them strength. And I think that was even this and that's true, that's just true in leadership, whether it's you know, you're in politics or whether you're in the boardroom. And you have to be, as a leader, I think, fully committed to where you're going and the outcome, and never let your team see you sweat.

Speaker 2: 58:06

Never let your team see you sweat. That's interesting to me because there have been a couple of times where I've let my team let's take a seat. Yeah, I've been there a couple of times where I've let my team see me sweat because I wanted to appear human.

Speaker 1: 58:20

Yeah, yeah, I think it's different. Like tell them, like, listen, this is where the vulnerabilities are. This is the part I'm afraid of. But you know what, we're going for it and I think you're right being very real, even going back to that notion about transparency, when I would share all the information about the company, it would be like, yeah, you know what, we're in a really bad place and we got three months to turn this around and you end up creating this sense of spree to core. You know we're all in this together and we're going to make it happen, and I think that's very different than it's knowing that you're going to going back to it. You're going to have their back, go to bed, and I think that's what's really important for them to see.

Speaker 2: 59:02

I agree, for everyone's got a different leadership style. So for me, I was never the most charismatic right and I had to earn that respect from people by helping them and showing them how much value they had. And if I made a mistake I'd be the first person to fall on the sword and say, whoops, I screwed up. And I think that helped me in my career and that helped keep my people in the company. In 10 years of running my telecom business, we never had anyone quit and that, to me, was the most rewarding statistic I had, because that meant I was liked. People show value and they're careers with with. You know my success and their success. So that was, that was a rewarding feeling. So, shelly, I want to thank you. Thank you, this was amazing. You are an amazing person.

Speaker 1: 59:47

Oh, you're so nice.

Speaker 2: 59:48

I truly mean that as I look you in the eyes. You're an amazing person you are. You are an inspiration to many, especially my daughters. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 59:56

It's been a privilege, thank you.

Speaker 2: 59:58

Next time on, I Took a Hike. We take a spirited journey with Daisy Joplin, a classical and rock violinist and founder of the Daisy Joplin Music Mentorship Foundation. Till next time, I'm Darren Mass. Thanks for listening.