Nat Berman - Blazing a Trail of Authentic Entrepreneurship

When was the last time you hit a trail, both metaphorically and literally, to discover the heart of entrepreneurship and the spirit of persistence? This episode, we trek alongside Nat Berman, CEO of Uncoached Corp, whose journey from a disenchanted recruiter to a dedicated entrepreneur is a testament to the grit required to forge a path of your own. Climb with us through his early days of blogging, where platforms like Blogspot were the testing grounds for his drive to create and succeed. Nat's candid reflections on the value of aligning business with personal values, and how overcoming technical setbacks can lead to unanticipated success, make for a narrative as engaging as any adventure.

Venture further into our conversation, and you'll uncover the significance of maintaining authenticity and integrity in a world where 'fake it till you make it' is too often the norm. Learn from Nat how genuine originality in messaging can carve out a distinctive space in a crowded market, and why walking the talk is crucial when your business involves advising others. We'll dissect the delicate art of distinguishing oneself amid the saturation of online content and ponder the true meaning of starting a business with integrity at its core. This segment is an expedition through the landscape of modern business practices, seeking the summit of authentic success.

Wrapping up our time with Nat, we share tales that interweave the personal with the professional, including the charm of unexpected encounters and the thrill of competition that pushes us to excel. Whether it's meeting a significant other in an offbeat setting or navigating the peaks and valleys of business rivalries, this episode is a celebration of the human experience. As our hiking week concludes, we emerge from the trails of Central Park stronger and more connected, having embraced the 'good pain' that comes from striving toward a common goal. So grab your earbuds, and prepare to be inspired by a journey that's about much more than just business — it's about the adventure of life itself.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right. So have you ever had a thing where you do the whole thing and then you're like fuck, there's no audio?

Speaker 2: 0:07

Yes, I have had those heart skipping, oh shit moments two times. One time the audio did not record and I had to do a second recording, second hike with the individual. But, it turned out it was a better hike. And it was a better audio experience and we were both better for it. That happened on two episodes ago Mark Friedman and he was a second episode and the first time it happened I forgot to hit the record button. Oh yes, painful. So, nat and Berman, are you OK with being recorded on a podcast?

Speaker 1: 0:42

I am OK with it.

Speaker 2: 0:44

There goes that liability. This is I Took a Hike. I'm your host, darren Mass, founder of Business Therapy Group and Parktime Wilderness Philosopher. Here we step out of the boardrooms and home offices and into the great outdoors, where the hustle of entrepreneurship meets the rustle of nature. In this episode, we follow an inspirational trail comprised of momentous conversations with Nat Berman, CEO of Uncoached Corp and a phenomenal motivational figure. Our topics include starting with integrity, building digital real estate and pushing way beyond the challenges that can scare us away from accomplishment. We traversed a very challenging and monumental trail when I took a hike with Nat Berman. There you go. So, nat Berman, I sought after you to become a guest on multiple occasions. I don't know if you saw that I was leaving comments and you're linked in let's take a hike. I don't know if you saw that I did. Ok, I did, but you chose to ignore me until I figured out the one thing I was missing, and this is an important sales lesson Try, try, try and try. I went to your LinkedIn profile and I booked a calendar request with you because it was on there. And I got you to have to pay attention to me, Because then the next thing what did you do?

Speaker 1: 2:09

I looked at your profile and immediately accepted. So yeah, I mean it's funny because I just didn't. I don't think I'd looked at your profile. If I had looked at your profile the very first time you reached out, I would have 100% accepted and I just, for whatever reason, didn't at that time.

Speaker 2: 2:27

So shit happens. This is an important lesson in sales. You just got to keep trying, try until you hear the no and then keep trying from there. But the reason why I wanted to hike with you is you and I are extremely similar. We're both motivationally inspired, inspirational, we have our own styles. We're prolific on LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is a fantastic medium and we both have had these great careers and like to teach others from those experiences. Yep, absolutely. Why don't we take a step back and discover more about who Nat Berman is and we can run from there? Okay, what would you like to know? So why are we hiking today? What got you to this point today? What was your original career in?

Speaker 1: 3:16

So I mean at a college, career-wise, I was a recruiter by trade. Actually, my very first job was recruiting in the pharmaceutical industry and then I quickly transitioned over to New York City and I worked for some firms there where essentially I recruited like investment bankers, traders, equity sales, people that kind of stuff, and didn't love it. And then it was financial services didn't love it. What didn't you love about it? I was very sales oriented, so a lot of cold calling. Also, to be honest with you, I was around like a lot of money, super successful people, so I got a chance to really see that world without actually being in that world. Okay, and that just wasn't really for me. So the one thing I learned quite well is that one thing I never wanted to do was ever work for anyone or have a boss that kind of thing, so it was always in your vision, to be your own boss. Yeah, that was always consistent. But, knowing that I couldn't necessarily do that right away, what I? I think I had four different recruiting jobs and each one one thing got, always got better. It was either the commute or who I was working with, that kind of thing. I went from a almost three hour round trip at the start of my career to eventually walking 15 minutes to my job and having two bosses who were incredible, wow, okay. So that was one really great kind of lesson that I learned was that like hey, even within the structure of something that I didn't particularly love, I could at least work my way towards a situation that was not bad. So, anyway, it was actually almost like I wouldn't use the word karma, but financial crisis was sort of hitting 2007, 2008. And in 2007, a buddy of mine emailed me this blogging platform on Google, which you probably know Blogspot Yep is that still around. I was just gonna say I think it is, but certainly not prevalent anymore. Yeah, it's become a little dated.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Yeah, although blogging is not, but it's more often to blogging.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Yeah, that word used to be like taboo, yes, and I think it's definitely not as much these days, but anyways, he sent me this link to Blogspot and I was like what the hell is this? And I kind of got hooked. Truth be told, I started a website right when I got out of college on Yahoo GeoCities, which dates me even further. Oh, wow, I had that site for like I don't know a couple of months and, amazingly, I like basketball. My first article was how I thought Kobe Bryant wasn't gonna be good in the NBA. Yeah, one of my worst predictions ever, yeah. So anyway, yeah, it wasn't until seven or eight years later that my friend sent me this link and I kind of just got obsessed and I started a couple sites. They were okay. I started learning how to monetize and make money from them and then I had this idea to start something called Uncoached, which was a sort of right at the time. I started Uncoached, I think Barstool Sports came out about two months later. So when people asked me, oh, what was the site you started, I was it's kind of like that. It was like a guy's site. You know, entertainment, sports, comedy, girls. Oh, like, very much like a Maxim, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Which, by the way, the best magazine ever in my college days.

Speaker 1: 6:54

I totally agree. So things kind of picked up when you know it's funny. You mentioned Try, Try again. One of the things I did on my website was I reached out to Sports Illustrated every day for probably six months, Okay, Before one of their editors finally linked to one of my articles and that kind of got the process really moving, of the site growing and getting some traction. So they mentioned you or they backlinked to it. They linked to an article that I wrote that had a feel great, it was pretty awesome. And then all of a sudden it's like CNN and you know it was getting picked up by various outlets. What was the article about? I don't remember the one that got linked to in Sports Illustrated. I did a lot of sports stuff, Okay, so no, but it became a regular thing. So his name is Jimmy Something. He still runs it to this day. It's called Extra Mustard and it's this section where they Jimmy Trayna and they only all they do is basically link out to like stuff they like. Okay, Anyway, that picked up. You know, long story short, I ended up growing like a larger sort of portfolio of sites and eventually I moved away from that model to the more entertainment stuff, to more like niche oriented stuff, so sites around finance and real estate and home and garden and pets. You know I have like a dog side, a cat side, a parrot side. Wow, all right so you really spread the tension about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really went. So today I actually still own those sites there's about 25 of them and now, thankfully, they're very, very passive. I spend about I don't know 20 minutes a day on them and the rest I have a company that manages them. So, okay, they generate revenue, yeah, perfect. And so essentially I kind of look at that as, like you know, I use the word digital real estate. You know it doesn't mean you know fantasy worlds. In the metaverse, it means literally owning a property making money from advertising, pseudo, passively off of Google traffic.

Speaker 2: 8:56

So what we do know is passive income is your goal. Anyone should aspire to have passive income, whether it is real estate, which arguably will be very challenged very soon, yeah. Or, in your case, your example, digital real estate.

Speaker 1: 9:13

I love that term. Yeah, I mean technically. Right now, you know I'm at a point where I could live off my I guess investments or. But the only thing I would caveat that with is that you're at the whim of Google's updates. Yes, especially with those kinds of properties. So that could take a bath tomorrow, and it already has in many ways for a lot of sites in the industry.

Speaker 2: 9:39

Well, you brought up a good point you could live off of. You know the revenue, the income. But here's the challenge At any moment your passive income can deplete Yep, and you can deplete from any. You know any server service, google. You know any algorithm change can greatly affect your income. Yeah, you have to have the mentality that you can't stop working. I completely agree.

Speaker 1: 10:05

That's a lesson that I learned, yep, and I know it today. I know it today, like LinkedIn, that's my new medium right, so you can change your algorithm, which they have literally in the last week, and they will again and oh, maybe that's the reason why I'm starting to get some traction.

Speaker 2: 10:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:24

It's just you are at the whim of you know you're really renting space to build your own platform, identity, whatever you want to call it, and they can take that away from you with the snap of the finger. And I'm of the standpoint of you really don't have a right to whine about it. It's not your platform.

Speaker 2: 10:43

You either adjust or adapt or you're in deep shit, I think there's a good, strong lesson in this Is if you get complacent, you will fall backwards. Yep, complacency kills companies. Right, the business owner that's seen so much success. He decides to work from home every day, literally going on lunches and golf and vacations right, the business starts falling apart. That leader has taken a backseat. The investor that just sits back and lets the market take its course. Well, sometimes you got your eye off the road and you go off the road, yep. So you have to keep hustling, keep driving. In your LinkedIn example, that is a prime example. You could have every post do well and all of a sudden an algorithm change and if you're not continuing to work and drive and meet the requirements to get yourself out there, you're gonna fall behind, yep. But I did notice that in this year I made a concerted effort to post every day, right and right and right. For me it was therapy, and a lot of them don't go anywhere and it takes hours. I think you know how long it takes to write a good post and in the last week all of a sudden something happened where my posts have been doing well, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:01

Well, it could very well be the algorithm, but it's also the algorithm sort of rewarding. There's a lot of big creators from a few years ago. Everybody calls them like OG or whatever, and it's so overused. It's awful. Like what the hell is an OG right now?

Speaker 2: 12:18

Biggie, smalls, that's an OG.

Speaker 1: 12:20

Exactly, it deserves the money. 90s rappers or 80s rappers or OGs.

Speaker 2: 12:23

Two-Tuck yeah Del Biv De.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Vaux, but a lot of these folks, and I've been having a lot of these conversations lately because sometimes people ask they're like, oh, how do you get all this engagement? How do you do this? And the reality is a number of years ago you could post anything and you'd get a ton of, because the platform was pushing all your stuff, no matter what it was, no matter how good it was or bad it was. So nobody was really testing anything and seeing what worked, they just posted. So a lot of those people who picked up these humongous followings where do you want to go here?

Speaker 2: 13:00

Go left. Ok, by the way, how amazing is this trail.

Speaker 1: 13:02

It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 13:04

So we're capping the week of straight hiking off with you, a great guest as well as the best trail for scenery.

Speaker 1: 13:13

Yeah, this is incredible. So a lot of these folks that picked up these massive audiences, I hate to say it, but they're really salty right now. They're just pissed because they're posting the same crap, and I will say crap. I'm not afraid to admit that these one line do this every day at 5 AM crap, and it's like you're wondering why it's not getting picked up by the feed and you're wondering why nobody's engaging. It's like, well, because LinkedIn has figured things out. They're like, OK, well, we're going to give people what they really want to read at this point, which is not platitudes and not garbage.

Speaker 2: 13:53

Yeah, well, we don't have to name names, but there are a few individuals that I do follow. I follow people who have inspirational messages or tell the story the same as everyone else, but in a unique way, right? So what do I mean by that? The early bird catches the worm. Well, ben Franklin said that, but he definitely heard something like that from someone else. And now it's the person who wakes up early, as Exhibit says, the first one o'clock in the last to leave. There's different ways of saying the same message. Nobody is writing a business book that is going to be so different than anything else that's ever been told Exactly, but they will say it in a different message, and if the reader aligns with that, then fantastic.

Speaker 1: 14:34

Yeah, and I had this conversation on another podcast recently which the host told me she said you talk about things in a very different way than other people. And she didn't say you talk about different things. She said things in a different way and there's a huge distinction there. It's like look, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, look, I'm a coach. Right, I do motivational things, I do tactical things. None of it's new, none of it. But the way in which you talk about it and explain it and use examples, that is where the whole for lack of a better word authenticity really, really is important and makes a difference.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Where it resonates.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Yeah, and so for me it was video and t-shirts, right, like that kind of started the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 15:31

I do love your t-shirt and I will say what captivated my attention not captured, but captivated was the fact that you are totally open and transparent. You basically say that you're a guy who gives inspirational wisdom while at your pool. Yes, and I love that because it's unique, it is on brand and it's a little comical in a way. Right, by doing that, you're basically portraying the life that you want someone else can achieve, right, so that makes you, in a way, an authority figure. Oh, it's a guy. Yeah, I mean, that's For me at least. I do this stuff while hiking. This is my pool, yeah exactly, and I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 16:15

I mean that's the best compliment you can get. Yeah, I don't know if I'd go as far as to say I'm an authority, but I definitely agree that I've carved something out that people listen to and, in terms of the one thing that I, at least think is really important to do which not enough people do these days is practice what you preach, walk the walk, all that kind of stuff. I think an amen is appropriate for that one, and it's only going to get worse. As far as you know, I'll always say this you have every right to be a coach when you're 22,. Right, you do. You have every right. You can go out there and pitch your services and put out content every single day for years. But the reality is, if you're going to be a coach on business building and you haven't built a business, come on. Like you know what I mean, come on.

Speaker 2: 17:14

So we see that with everything right Now. I'm a big believer in fake it. So you make it, but within the general context, yeah, right. So what do I mean by that? If you're running a $1 million business and you keep losing client opportunities or prospects because they wanted a bigger business, then act like a $10 million business Inact processes, procedures, trainings, invest in your people like a $10 million business would Fake it till you make it. And guess what? You will get there? Yeah, Faster than you think. But I'm not saying to look at your first resume and say you worked for Northrop Grumman as the director of operations.

Speaker 1: 17:54

If you haven't done that. Here's a great example of fake it so you make it and you're absolutely right. But perfect example is like there's a lot of people who use the word power of no, that phrase, you know Saying no to people. If you have the balls to say no to someone and you're just starting your business, that's faking it till you make it. In a weird kind of way it's not literally faking it, but it's like you're essentially acting how all the big boys do, which is saying no to something that doesn't fit your business or whatever it is, and you're starting from that place of integrity right away. I kind of look at fake it till you make it as that's kind of an example of that, where you're not actually faking it but you are emulating what some of the really successful companies have already done. And when you come from a place like that, the phrase fake it till you make it, I think, comes true, because if you do that long enough, eventually it will be in your favor. That's right.

Speaker 2: 18:53

I love what you just said. Start with integrity. I think that should be the first line of any business plan Integrity, because that's what sets great businesses apart with the integrity, and integrity can be defined in your business integrity, your ethical integrity, your cultural integrity. But integrity in the business is the consistency that you would need. And if you have a customer, let's say you're in the service industry for refrigerator repair and your potential client says, can you design a website for me? You better not say yes. And it does happen where sometimes you do whatever that customer wants. I have some caveats with that, but sometimes that's a good thing, but in this case probably not. Have some business integrity.

Speaker 1: 19:43

Yeah, I'm with you there. Like it's interesting, because when you're on social media there's nowhere you can hide from vitriol and people saying bad things. And over the years I just literally laughed that crap off and I'm like thanks for the engagement. You know what I mean. And it's just like, oh my god, can I high five you on that one. Sorry, that was a low five. That was a low but they couldn't see it.

Speaker 2: 20:11

You had to mention it. So now it looks like we did a nerd five. I love that you said that. So I see this all the time and this is a lesson in investing the right emotions. If someone says something negative to you, it's like hearing a no in business Just push past it, ignore it, use it as fuel and, in the case of social media, I don't know if it's done on purpose by some people, but when they say a negative remark, it brings them attention. It might not be good attention, but that might be the attention they want. But if you engage it properly with kindness, you can keep that commenting stream going forward and it just boosts you. It boosts your stuff. I posted something the other day and someone said it was a nice humble brag, and I politely said I think you might be missing the point of this. I'm not bragging in any way, shape or form. Notice how my thread is talking about the negatives of my first statement. Right, the first statement is it's written for shock yes, and then the rest of it is called a hook yes, that's how writing style is made. So, anyway, they went back and forth to your first statement, bragg. Your second state, humble Humble. So we went back and forth, and the entire time I was like listen, I wish you the best. I will celebrate your success when you post about it. And that's when it stopped. But, yeah, negative engagement, please keep it up. So how do you ultimately deal with it, though? Has anything that has been said negatively gotten to you, or is this a learned behavior?

Speaker 1: 21:39

Yeah, no it's a good question because I was actually getting to something along those lines, which is very, very few things will affect me where I'll think about it for more than a second, but there is one type of post or type of comment that will elicit a reaction. So for anybody out there who really wants to piss me off, just do this. It's when someone actually does question my integrity. So if I see a statement where, like, I've had posts go up before where I've had a pretty strong hook that says something that's eye inducing, that is meant to do that. But one thing I will say is every single hook I've ever written A is true, in whatever way you want to interpret it, and B, I'll always follow it up in the post, in the body. So, but this one time I wrote I have had a 100% success rate with clients. Okay, that is a hook.

Speaker 2: 22:39

I want to read how the hell is that possible? How is that possible? Either full of shit, but I want to read more Exactly.

Speaker 1: 22:44

Or this is true and I want to learn more, and that's so your response that you just said right now, you're the guy I'm writing to think about that, right, like you're the person I'm writing to because you're smart to recognize that, hey, he did something like that, and either he's going to prove it or this post is full of shit. Yep, right.

Speaker 2: 23:07

So but, by the way, if it is full of shit, I'm hopeful that deep in your body I know what you did. I appreciate what you did to get me read and there's a learning lesson in there that I could take away.

Speaker 1: 23:15

Yes and B. You know I have to own up to it on my part. So what happened from there was somebody who was actually a pretty big person on the platform out to me and said look, they said it's somewhat peacefully, but I don't know, it's debatable. They basically said like you know, I'm having a hard time, you know, believing that a couple of people reached out to me and they pointed out this post that you made to me and I had to have to reach out to you and he had the respect of doing it like in the DMs, nothing in the public. So that was cool. I think it was a good place.

Speaker 2: 23:46

And he's like it's still be a selfish thought, but okay.

Speaker 1: 23:48

And he goes there is no possible way you've done that. There's only one coach in the history of coaching who's had 100% success rate, and here's his name.

Speaker 2: 23:58

Is this like a? Nancy Pelosi is the best financial advisor in the world? Scenario.

Speaker 1: 24:03

No, no, no, no, no. But I explained it. I said look, every person I've ever worked with has had a positive outcome from what we've done. I can't speak to whether or not it's the exact result they wanted, but in you know, in my eyes I've helped out 100% of the people I've worked with. I stand by that statement, but, you know, if I look back, I take ownership over the fact that I can't decide whether or not that 100% is agreed upon by those people. You know what I mean. Like I know that I've helped them all and let's let them pass.

Speaker 2: 24:41

I don't want them to die. Sure, bro, like a towel, nature's towel, some dried leaves, yeah right, or asleep. So I see where you're going with us, but you, I believe you, by the way you have helped 100% of the people.

Speaker 1: 24:54

And, by the way, I talked to a lot of, because this, this comment and conversation we got into it went a lot further than that and we actually got on the phone, which I don't really want to get into all of it. But I had a conversation with a lot of people about this and I was kind of torn like, like you know, is he right? Or like you know what's going on here? I know I've reflected, I did and, pardon me, I felt bad because when we were actually on the phone conversation, I literally and this goes back to five minutes ago, this is why I brought it up I said look, man, you're questioning my integrity and that really, really pisses me off. Like I was very, very annoyed because he was basically saying you're not who you say you are and when someone says that, then I will come back and I will say something. But I even called the guy back, I even called him back, I even emailed him back and I said, look, I apologize for being abrasive, whatever you know, you make a good point and we kind of left it at that and everything's fine and I'm calling you a phony. But in a sense that's what I read out of it and if his interpretation is different than wonderful. But if I think I'm being called a phony, then yes, I'm going to react that way and I will continue to react that way forever.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Well, I certainly commend you for reacting that way, right, because you put something out there Again. It's a lot of work to curate these stories in a way that's understandable by an audience, and they do come from the heart, and when I read your posts and several others, I could tell they're coming from the heart, they're coming from a good place. I don't think I question integrity if I followed you and I believe you.

Speaker 1: 26:33

Right and you know what. Again, to this person's credit or to their personality, whatever, I don't think this is someone that was following me for a particularly long time or even saw a lot of my content, so I'm just telling you it's a show that you can think it in. Anyways, stay made here. I am saying like I kind of don't even blame the person for saying that, because that's the only thing they saw of me, but still pisses me off.

Speaker 2: 26:57

I'm still going to react. There's a lesson in that Before you leap, we should look, as has been famously stated, and sometimes people like to post negative leap because it draws their own attention, and that's if you look through their feed. I challenge you to do this actually Then that's next negative post you get. Go look at all of the history of that person's post and see if this is what they do for a living Because it draws attention, right. And if it's just a one-time post, then my recommendation to anybody TikTok, instagram, facebook, whatever post as negatively as you want, it doesn't matter, I don't care. But when it comes to LinkedIn, that's a professional business networking platform. Why would you ever want a negative comment to come out of your personal persona Ever? If you're applying for a job, they're looking at your LinkedIn profile and if they see that you're a negative poster, are they going to want to hire you? So negative posting on LinkedIn don't do it, unless that's your shtick. If that's your thing you're drawing attention and that's what you want to be known for sure. But if you're an employee, someone you recently had on your podcasts is like that. Maybe you shall not mention names.

Speaker 1: 28:08

No, I'm going to mention. In pause. I'm calling you out, posner. You're Mr Negative. Well, here's how we're going to solve this battle, are you?

Speaker 2: 28:14

ready. We're going to have a hiker versus hiker showdown. We're going to mic both of you up and you're going to shtick talk each other until the last man survives.

Speaker 1: 28:22

I hope he's listening to this and he's smiling right now because he and I are very cool with each other and like each other, and that's just part of our thing is rousing each other.

Speaker 2: 28:30

But so you are actually hitting on another really important note for success Competition. Competition is awesome If you use it the right way. If you're angry about competition, you are going to be blinded by rage. That is not a good fuel source. But if you have a friendly competition, if you are friends with your competitors, use them, work with them, have them, try to one up you, you, one up them. It will help you grow your business. It will also help educate your prospective customers. Competition is awesome, celebrate it.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Yeah, and along the exact same lines. Look, I'm a coach. Two of my clients are coaches. That says something. And they also go after the exact same people that I do. That's right. So are they competitors? Yes, but here's the reality. The reality is that not everyone is for everyone Sure, and so if I'm going to help someone grow their business and help them target the same people that I target, I'm totally cool with that, because their style, who they are, is going to resonate with someone else, probably a little bit better than me and, in some cases, not as good as me, and they'll get that person as a client and I'll get the other person as a client, and the world goes round. So it's like it's not. So what would be your?

Speaker 2: 29:38

advice. By the way, we are walking up a stream bed, yeah, and if we do get a torrential downpour, you and I are going to be flushed away.

Speaker 1: 29:45

I think we're safe today.

Speaker 2: 29:47

And we're off the beaten path, off the trail which I love. I didn't even know that. Oh yeah, this is your. Yeah, this is my domain. You know this, but let me get your advice. What are the three most important attributes that someone could look into when selecting the right coach?

Speaker 1: 30:02

Very good question. So the first one is essentially do your research Right. I mean, you see somebody's profile, it looks okay. You see, you know some of the things about them, the appearance is great. But you really want to kind of do your research as much as you can, whether that's a reference check or asking them very, very specific qualifying questions. That's probably the first thing I'd look for. The second one, which is really important, is are they who they say they are, which is very you know. It's basically an extension of the first one. And if they are and they meet all those criteria, then the very last one is you know, do you get along with them, do you mesh with them? Are there, is it someone you think you'd be comfortable with, that you'd want to work with, that you'd be happy confiding with? So obviously the two of you have to gel and you got to kind of go on your gut on there. So that's the three I would recommend.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Matt Berman. Words of Wisdom. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Let me flip the script on you. If you could have one guest on your hike, you could hike with one person, who would be Richard Branson.

Speaker 2: 31:03

You didn't hesitate at all. There I've got a list of thoughts that run through my head in a stream of consciousness that I cannot turn off at any point. And Richard Branson, to me, is the most successful human that has ever walked the face of the earth. He is extremely dyslexic. His education was limited, he was dismissed, he was troubled, yet he had the chutzpah. The chutzpah. Anybody that told him he can't. He ignored and used that as fuel. And look at him today living his best life, well-balanced life, with the most important key attribute with the help of others. And he is a cultural leader, a cultural icon and an inspiration to many. It's awe-inspiring and I would love to get him on the show. Look at his view the foliage. I'd say this was a hike.

Speaker 1: 31:58

Nat, as long as you admit it was a hike, because you're like, experienced at this shit, nat took a hike.

Speaker 2: 32:02

I'm sweating my balls off. I'm slightly missed it.

Speaker 1: 32:08

Yeah, I could sit here for a little bit. This is awesome.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us. Discover more episodes at hightokahikecom, or to recommend an adventurous guest, apply to be a sponsor or to simply drop us a line. All right, where did the trail go?

Speaker 1: 32:25

It was over here somewhere and we're slightly above it. I think I really wish I would have like a. I met my wife on a hike kind of story, but I don't. I'm always jealous of people who have those stories Like, yeah, actually I was on a hike and she kind of met her and what's that. I was just saying how it would be like it'd be cool if I had a. I met my wife on a hike story. Oh, even though I met her on a fucking shady day, I actually have one of those.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Do you really? Yeah, yeah, I think. Every time I tell the story which is 100% factual and true one, I get the I don't believe you at first, and then, when you know, I validate it with pictures and stuff like that, and everyone's like, wow, you're like the last person to have met in person. So I was just started the company. It was three months old, it was June 28th of 2008. And I decided to take the day off early because I had no customers, no business, and I was bored. That happens. So I went to the dog park with my dog, dexter. I was, I was in Madison Square dog park. All right, I'm trying to keep my. Long Island accent away to the left Dog, dog, dog, dog, dog, dog, whatever. Wait, what's your Long Island? I'm from Nassau County, from North Balmore, I'm poor Washington. Oh, there you go. Yeah, that's why we get along. Yeah, possibly. So I was in the dog park and I got there around 2pm and I normally would get there from five and leave no later than 5 30, because that's when the rush came in and for some reason, you know, beautiful day, I just said, you know I might as well stay, stayed till five. I'm a normal time getting there, stayed till 5 30, my normal time leaving. Music started playing in the background, there was a band on this makeshift stage in the park and I stayed and it's later later, about 6 30 rolls around. So all of this is uncharacteristic, out of my normal routine and I am a creature of routine and in pop I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah, I am, and in popped this the love of my life, beautiful woman.

Speaker 1: 34:26

I got to go see about a girl.

Speaker 2: 34:27

Yeah, yep my wife well at that time, my nothing. Yep. Christy walks in. There's a whole set of benches. It's a huge park for New York City. In the dog park she sits next to me and then she screams for her dog. She goes Peepo, come here. I thought she said beatbox. Now, I was not the most courageous person when it came to women, but instantly, without hesitation, I said to her did you name your dog beatbox? That's such a cool name. And then she corrected me and that was it. From there we had a conversation and within 15 minutes of the conversation, the voice in my head said I'm marrying her. Oh, that's the park people.

Speaker 1: 35:07

That's the park. No one believes.

Speaker 2: 35:09

Yeah, but I will tell you it is 100% true. That was the voice in my head. The reason why it is true is it wasn't a love at first sight, infatuation sense. I've had lots of love at first sights in my life, lots of girlfriends, right, I was 28. I just started the business. I did not want a girlfriend, but what I was telling myself is take this one seriously. Yep, and that was it. And now we're married. Nice, so, yes, we met in real life.

Speaker 1: 35:34

I had a similar feeling about my wife where it was like, yes, I thought she was attractive when we first met and all that kind of stuff, and like, yes, all those bells were ringing, but like it was definitely a level of comfort that I felt with her within two dates where I was like, yeah, she's awesome, Like I could just you know, one of those be in the foxhole with types you know, like it was just Well, what do you?

Speaker 2: 35:57

think is the most important qualities from the onset of meeting that significant other. Is it beauty? Is it with the attractiveness? Is it personality?

Speaker 1: 36:09

humor, I'm not going to deny that I have my tastes right, like there's no question that you have to have an attraction. By that I don't mean like a specific, like brunette, blonde, type. It just I just mean be attracted to the person, of course. I just think a level of comfort, something that you feel like you can talk to or that you've known for a while and I you know, I guess, the qualities that that entails is obviously a level of intelligence and certainly someone who I definitely think someone who can appreciate certain kinds of humor and not get offended. Where the hell is this trail? Well, I remember going up these exact.

Speaker 2: 36:48

We went up this. I want to go down the other side because otherwise we're not completing the loop. There it is what was wrong with going the way we came and we're not doing the loop, what You're not completing the trail, whatever. By the way, don't ever do this on Mount Everest.

Speaker 1: 37:04

Makes you appreciate just how fucking tough those people are man.

Speaker 2: 37:08

That's why it takes years of training. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:10

I can't even.

Speaker 2: 37:10

Look at this. We almost missed this. This has good foreground right here. Yeah, how do you feel?

Speaker 1: 37:26

Feel good yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:29

All right, this guy did it. We just climbed down the biggest elevation drop on an episode. He did it. Oh, is that true? Those sneakers right there, we came from all the way up there.

Speaker 1: 37:44

I got to take a picture of that.

Speaker 2: 37:46

Yeah, nat, you feel good, feel great, man Accomplished.

Speaker 1: 37:52

I'll tell you one thing man Doing work doesn't feel like shit. Awesome.

Speaker 2: 37:57

I love it, so I forgot to ask you this Do you consider yourself a successful person?

Speaker 1: 38:04

Probably not as much in my eyes as other people's eyes.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Imposter syndrome. Yeah, okay, why is that?

Speaker 1: 38:11

Because I think I can always be better.

Speaker 2: 38:13

So what would be the aspect or attribute that gets you to say, yeah, I've done it, I'm successful. What would give you that humility? There won't be one Ever.

Speaker 1: 38:24

No, I love it, and I'm not even saying that in a tough guy kind of way, I'm just saying it like I just it's not in my DNA, unfortunately, no matter what fucking level. I used to be the guy that goes to a concert and wanted to be the one on the stage, not watching, right? Yeah, because I would get jealous and pissed Like fuck man. They commanded this audience, they had this kind of power. Thankfully, now that's morphed a little bit more into like all right, well, now I can see what's possible. Yep, rather than like be jealous. But I can tell you this right now, just having seen those concerts and at least trying to grasp of what it's like to be in that position it's never good enough.

Speaker 2: 39:04

It is awesome playing on stage, but after you've done that a thousand times, it's just a job. That's right.

Speaker 1: 39:12

It was just a job. You can only live in Hawaii so long and appreciate the view until eventually. It's just the place you live.

Speaker 2: 39:17

So the grass is always greener, that's right. Right, I've lived in Manhattan. I had apartments where it overlooked great parks, Yep. Right, I've had offices where I saw all the way uptown. I stopped seeing them after a few weeks. How you doing? And after a few months the grass is always greener for a period of time. Yeah me.

Speaker 1: 39:37

And my then girlfriend, now wife. We had a fantastic view of Empire State Building and it was like probably within two weeks. It was like you didn't even notice it. Yeah, you stopped staring at it?

Speaker 2: 39:51

Yeah, because you start realizing that it's taking too much time. Then you look for the next thing to stare at and the next goal, and the next goal.

Speaker 1: 40:00

Reminds me of. It's a great line from Lost in Translation when she says let's never come back here because it will never be as much fun. Love that line. That is a great movie and that's a great line. Oh my God. Yeah, one of my best performing posts on LinkedIn and I usually do it. I'm now going to put it up, probably twice a year, just because, like just to reuse it, because I know it does well, is that okay? Can you do it? I said the word reuse you have to repurpose, so you do have to change text around. You can change the hook and change the formatting.

Speaker 2: 40:35

Do you repost it like copy paste or do you like I copy paste, then alter? No, but you'll put it as like a new post. Yes, I don't repost.

Speaker 1: 40:45

A lot of people do that. All the big creators do that. That's just when they're lazy and don't feel like posting that thing, they always hit repost. I never do that. What is it?

Speaker 2: 40:51

Is it okay to? I'm asking for my own understanding.

Speaker 1: 40:54

Is it?

Speaker 2: 40:54

okay to repost and then add I posted this four years ago but I loved it so much I want to post it again, or some commentary. You could do that, but what?

Speaker 1: 41:02

I would do is I would literally just change it and just post it as new content. Because let's face it like, let's say, you do it three months later. In three months, you've gained followers and not every one of your audience members saw it in the first place, got it. But yeah, it's funny. I don't care about giving away information and giving the playbook, because you know what the playbook is on LinkedIn right now. What? Work your ass off. I'm serious. That's the fucking playbook. You know what I do with my clients, the ones who I help with LinkedIn. This is the value I usually give. It's like I have a list of about 85 people. It's on an Excel sheet. It's my own internal pod, whatever the fuck you want to call it and I just open those profiles every day, comment on all 85. And then I comment on a lot of other people's stuff, obviously, and my own shit. But I worked my ass off. I built that network. It took nine months to essentially get in, the good graces of all the good creators. That's right To the point where no, I'm not messaging them saying you know, please comment on my shit. They all comment on my shit. Yeah, so it's funny. Everybody like poo-poo's, pods and stuff. What do you think it is when a creator has a dedicated audience of, let's say, 200 other creators that always comment on their stuff? That's right, there's a community, we're a pod. It's a community and you can call it a pod, like exactly. That's why it's like I never get into those discussions on LinkedIn, because I'm like look man, the people who are like in pods or whatever, they're working their asses off. They're basically engaging with every other person in there. So call it a pod, call it this, call it that. It ain't no shortcut, I can tell you that much.

Speaker 2: 42:41

So how is this any different than, as I referenced before, building a company?

Speaker 1: 42:46

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 42:46

No, you're absolutely right If you have a staff of people. Your social strategy is to post your brand on LinkedIn. I can guarantee you every CEO or founder has said these exact words. Guys, we just did a post. Everyone of you go on LinkedIn, comment, like it up, share with your friends. That's right, that is totally okay, completely.

Speaker 1: 43:04

It's all organic.

Speaker 2: 43:05

Yes, oh, because I know the person already.

Speaker 1: 43:07

Well, how the hell do you think you start? You start by not knowing them.

Speaker 2: 43:10

No, you cheer each other on. It's called being selfless.

Speaker 1: 43:14

One of the best ways for me to build my own community, like you just said, is helping other people. So it's like if somebody engages me to help them, I'm going to say, okay, well, here's all the people I know. Start engaging with them because they like me and I'm vouching for you and everybody wins.

Speaker 2: 43:30

That is exactly right. By the way, we are nearing the end of our trail. Finally, I know you're happy. I am Nat Barman. I think you are very successful. I am really happy that we completed the week of hikes with you. Thanks man. I really enjoyed this one. I'm going to give you a moment of my own honesty. When you didn't reply to me on the multiple comments I've left about hey, nat, let's take a hike or the messages I dismissed you in my head, I was just like, well, this guy's a jerk.

Speaker 1: 43:58

And then I moved past you.

Speaker 2: 43:59

Don't blame it. I had every right to think that way. But then when I took the next leap, which was on me, that got us here and I will say I feel very connected with you, I feel very aligned. I am happy to even be considered to be in your community and vice versa. I'm really happy to share this episode with everyone. Thanks, man, I appreciate it, and I think we overcame some very many obstacles together. Dude, how do you?

Speaker 1: 44:25

feel, I feel good. A little sore, the toes hurt, the feet hurt, but it's all good pain. Good pain and we did our purpose.

Speaker 2: 44:34

Well, nat Bourbon, we went to hustle today, so now can we get a proper high five. There we go, and that is a wrap. Next time I took a hike. We experienced the life of Nadia Carta, an Italian born American with a warm personality and a heart of gold. Hike along as we experienced the ambiance of a bustling Central Park filled with inspirational conversation.