Scott MacGregor - Adversity is a Gift

How often do you pause to ponder the meaning woven into the 'dash between the dates' on a tombstone? Join us and our esteemed guest, Scott MacGregor, as we traverse the profound landscapes of entrepreneurship, personal growth, and the pursuit of a life rich with purpose. Scott, a CEO and author with a penchant for defying the status quo, reveals his philosophy on life's fleeting nature and how a single act of positivity per day can cascade into a tidal wave of change. Our conversation delves into Scott's courageous leadership choices, such as abolishing sales quotas, and how aligning individual and company goals can foster an environment of growth and loyalty even amidst economic storms.

Navigating through personal and professional trials is no minor feat, yet it's often within these crucibles that resilience and innovation are born. We reflect on Scott's story of risk-taking, from leaving a secure job to disrupt the recruiting industry, to the challenges faced as a single father, all whilst battling a rare heart condition – Brugada syndrome. Scott's narrative is a testament to the power of supportive relationships, humility in leadership, and the relentless pursuit of a life beyond mere survival, whether it's in the boardroom or at home.

As we conclude our journey and hint at the stories awaiting in our season finale, we invite you to join us on this reflective hike with Scott MacGregor. It's an episode that peels back the layers of entrepreneurship, exposes the heartache and triumph of battling addiction within a family, and ultimately, showcases the indomitable human spirit. This conversation promises to reshape your perspective on adversity, life's impermanence, and the value of each moment we're given.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, scott McGregor, are you okay with being recorded on a podcast? A hundred percent. There goes that liability. This is I Took a Hike. I'm your host, darren Mass, founder of Business Therapy Group and part-time wilderness philosopher. Here we step out of the boardrooms and home offices and into the great outdoors, where the hustle of entrepreneurship meets the rustle of nature.

Speaker 1: 0:22

In this episode, we take one of the most inspirational life purpose journeys with Scott McGregor, ceo of Something New, author of the Standing O Series and founder of the Outlier Project. Our topics include making the dash between the dates meaningful, defying all odds, learning from humble beginnings and maintaining a positive outlook regardless of the wake-up call. This is truly one of the most inspirational stories that I have had the pleasure of being present for when I took a hike with Scott McGregor. This episode is proudly brought to you by Brand Built, a dynamic social media networking community designed to elevate your success. Join our dynamic community for expert social media guidance, valuable lessons, education, weekly spotlights, monthly speakers and a robust brand building network. Explore more at mybrandbuiltcom and join me in the chat for a thriving journey to success. So, scott, you came very highly recommended by my good friend, adam Posner, who has the Pawscast. There you go, adam. I gave you a plug. Thank you so much. Why did he recommend you? Why do you think he recommended you?

Speaker 2: 1:41

You know we work in the same industry, you would think we're competitors, but I definitely have an abundance mentality, and I think Adam does too. We've been very good friends for quite a while. He's a part of a community that I run called the Outlier Project, and I think we just have mutual respect. He knows probably a good deal of my story, and I would imagine that was the reason for the recommendation.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Yeah. When he phoned me up, he said that you're a very successful individual, an achiever Nonetheless. You've had a great story. You are very altruistic with your time, You've benefited a lot of people. You've had multiple successful exits. So why don't we get the 30 seconds of who the heck are you?

Speaker 2: 2:24

I don't know that's a complicated question. I'm a simple. I'm really a simple guy who just wants to live an extraordinary life. There's a lot of reasons for that. I think part of it is how I grew up, Part of it is just an innate desire to make sure that that dash between the dates is meaningful. I mean, I just cannot even imagine I got to pause you there. The dash between the dates is meaningful.

Speaker 1: 2:47

I mean, I just cannot even imagine I gotta pause you there. The dash between the dates is meaningful. That's all I think about.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Wow. I mean, there's a reason for that and we can get into that whenever you like. But you know I'm paranoid. I don't wanna sleepwalk through life. I've seen my dad in particular, and so many other people actually. They just sleepwalk through life and I think what a waste. We're wasting an opportunity for ourselves, for our own happiness, but we're also wasting our gift that we have to give the world. If we do that, I want to live my version of an extraordinary life, and my version might not be your version, might not be Joe's, might not be Ed's, it might not be anybody else's. I want to live an extraordinary life.

Speaker 1: 3:32

I absolutely align with you there, right, part of the main reason why I'm doing this crazy thing called a podcast, driving across the world here to record great, successful people, is the exact same reason. I want to hear what it's like to be successful, what's your personal opinion of success, and I want to leave a mark on the world where, as you said, the dash actually has some meaning. So I think you just put that probably in one of the most inspirational ways that I've ever heard. Between the dash and sleepwalking, it's all that really matters.

Speaker 2: 4:11

It's at the end of the day, no one's really going to care about the businesses I built. They're not going to care about the books I wrote. They're not going to care about the house I live in, the car I drive. The only thing that's going to matter is the impact I made. They're not going to care about the house I live in, the car I drive. The only thing that's going to matter is the impact I made, and either I made one or I didn't. I don't have, like you know, a lot of people are. I want to impact a billion people or a million people or whatever, and that's fine for them. I always question whether that's a real number and a real driver. To me, it's like if I can have one interaction a day that makes a positive impact on somebody, I believe wholeheartedly in the ripple effect and that's what I try to do every day.

Speaker 1: 4:56

Yeah, you have a great mind and a great heart. I can tell already, and when people are describing I want to impact a million or a billion people, I think that's just because we humans like to have a target, we like to have a destination, destinationary number, so it just it's easier to explain it that way, whereas I'm going to say for guys like you and I we just want to make sure that we don't leave too much of a stain on society, except for a positive one.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Yeah, I think the number thing. To me it's a little bit sometimes of a vanity metric, like it sounds good. But I used to do a lot of goal setting with. I was a chief revenue officer for 17 years and I eliminated quotas and we just worked on people establishing a goal and then us trying to help them hit it and it was kind of a revolutionary thing to do at the time. Eliminating quota sounds like the craziest thing you know you could possibly do.

Speaker 1: 5:52

I agree with that. Having run sales organizations right, Having been the CEO of a company, eliminating quota is a little bit crazy. It's preposterous. Why would you do that? That's the drive.

Speaker 2: 6:03

Best thing I ever did, because when you apply a quota across the board, so I had a very large national sales team and they were remote and this was 20 years ago, so a little ahead of out of our time, maybe what kind of products we're? We actually created a new space, so a a space that didn't exist, which is now called Managed Print Services, but at the time we were just doing something that no one else had done before. But what I realized is that and I had left a Fortune 500 company, pitney Bowes, and I had an opportunity at 29 to be the CRO of a startup. It was five people and I was in charge of sales marketing and client success, but there was no sales marketing or client success. I had to build it all from scratch. So it was a new category in that itself. Yeah, and it was.

Speaker 2: 6:55

What I realized is that the across the board we're going to have a million dollar quota and that's going to translate into an on-target earnings of whatever like that might be meaningful to one person. It might be completely meaningless to the next person and I thought, why don't we just we're going to turn here, guys? Why don't we just really focus on what's important to people and some of them it out it was. They wanted a house on the Jersey shore. For another one it was I want to make sure that I can send my kids to a certain school. For some it was an income goal. But when you work, when you put all of your effort as a leader into helping people achieve their goals not your corporate goal that you just arbitrarily set and said, hopefully this motivates everybody it's a game changer. So we were already successful.

Speaker 1: 7:58

We had our best years after I implemented that I can completely align with that and I often coach clients, business owners. Stop putting your goal around a target number because, let's say, your number is to have a million dollars in one year in your paycheck. By the time you get to that million dollars, your lifestyle had increased. All of a sudden, a million isn't worth a million anymore. So really put it. Put your goals around lifestyle. I want to not have to go to the office every day. I want to be able to do this or go on vacation two times a year and afford first class.

Speaker 1: 8:37

That's a good lifestyle goal yeah, so how long did the no quota system continue to work?

Speaker 2: 8:46

Until I left. So I implemented it and we ran it like that for about maybe 10 years and we had double digit growth every single year for 17 straight years, which was insanely easy in the beginning, as you know, because you're going from nothing, and very hard when you're doing 30 million to continue to kind of keep growing at that pace. But a lot of it was. We were doing things nobody else was doing. Nobody had a remote sales force, you know, 40 people all over the place and a no quota system which actually allowed me to attract talent that I had probably no business attracting.

Speaker 1: 9:24

So how did you measure the success of your salespeople if there was no bar or no quota?

Speaker 2: 9:30

We would sit down and really discover with them what are your goals. And never in the ten years that we did that did we have somebody whose personal goal was below what the company would need to be successful, and then we just put all of our effort into helping people reach those goals. So there was always somewhat of a quantifiable aspect to it, because if you want to get that Jersey Shore house, or if you want to be able to retire at this age or you want to be able to send Sally or Bobby to a certain school, there's almost always a financial component to it. We're just, we just flipped the script a little bit and it was a complete game changer, did you?

Speaker 1: 10:12

have to deal with sales individuals that couldn't quite cut it and see them go.

Speaker 2: 10:17

We did, but I would say one of my claims to fame, if I have any, is we went nine years and never lost one person. Not one person. And how many people on staff? Probably about 60 at the time. Wow, that right there. People don't go nine months without losing somebody. We went nine years. The first person who ever left was a woman, lauren Dureste, and she was a very successful rep, but she really wanted to become a psychologist. So you didn't lose her either, though. Well, she just went and really went to her true calling.

Speaker 1: 10:53

But she pivoted, so I can align with that. One of my claims to fame is during the 10 years of our company, we never had an employee quit or leave on their own. We did have to help a few go. I mean, sometimes people don't align with the plan or the mission, the vision, the values. I remember telling one person he was too good for the industry and I meant it. I truly felt that if this individual, who was at that time a new person in the workforce, the millennial, I remember saying your personality's too great, your aspirations are too great, I'm going to do you a favor and let you go. He looked at me dumbfounded and I said because I don't want to hold you back, but don't worry, you can stay here as long as you want, but just work on finding something outside of this industry.

Speaker 2: 11:35

I mean that's true leadership, and so many people don't have the guts to do that, but that's true leadership. So not only did you give him a gift, but I'm sure everybody around him that little bit of push, because, at least in my experience, the most successful people have been able to motivate others with respect, and it goes both ways.

Speaker 1: 12:13

And when you see somebody that you know is a rising star, you have to lead them, you have to coach them, you have to mentor them, and sometimes that means you know what. Maybe you shouldn't be on the sales floor, maybe you're cut out for something bigger. I'm still very impressed. Nine years, no one really left you, no, and you didn't have to help many go. That's awesome. So where did you pivot from there?

Speaker 2: 12:36

We had so much growth, and especially 2008,. The economy was terrible. No, I remember.

Speaker 1: 12:43

That's when I started mass communication. Everyone thought I was nuts, and you did it at 28, which is really crazy.

Speaker 2: 12:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Well, let me ask you why. Why is that crazy?

Speaker 2: 12:52

Well, it's probably not because you've got the opportunity to take a swing. And I guess it's very similar to when people would say to me you've done so well at Pitney Bowes, why in the world would you ever leave? You could stay here forever. I'm like, I'm 29 years old. Well, the word forever is scary. What am I risking? If it works, it's going to be great, and if it doesn't work, I'm not really sure that I've lost a lot.

Speaker 1: 13:18

Yeah, you just go back on a jump. So that was my motivator. Right there it was my uncle saying what have you got to lose? You don't have a wife, you don't have kids, you have a dog. Go live with your parents or get a job. I did have two kids, a mortgage. So for you that's crazy. For me it wasn't so crazy the age. I was wondering where you're going. The age doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 13:37

But a couple of weeks ago we interviewed Jim Keys. He was the last CEO of Block blockbuster and I told him a story on how I was an employee of blockbuster for six hours because they the first thing you do as an employee of blockbuster. You go to their corporate headquarters. You watch a training video, which is probably about four of those six hours, and one of the sections of the training video was the employee who is now graduating to become a manager and the announcer came on and started talking about career ladders and how you could build a corporate career here and work your way up to management and you can have a forever job. And it's that word, forever, that scared the hell out of me, creaked you out?

Speaker 2: 14:20

yeah, Well, that's why you're an entrepreneur and that's why you've been able to do the things that you've been able to do.

Speaker 1: 14:26

I would be fortunate in that, but I'm only getting started. So back to you. You pivoted, and then what?

Speaker 2: 14:35

We were hiring a ton of people in an economy where it seemed like nobody was hiring. So I was getting bombarded by calls from recruiters. So I was getting bombarded by calls from recruiters headhunters not to necessarily try to place me, but they knew we were hiring a lot of people. So I just really felt, after years and years of dealing with recruiters and headhunters, that it was one of the most dysfunctional, backwards industries I'd ever seen in my life. I said this is so antiquated, it's so ripe for disruption. I know I could build a better mousetrap and so this is the embarrassing part I put a business plan together to build that mousetrap, but I sat on it for a decade.

Speaker 2: 15:23

I was scared to death to jump off the cliff and do my own thing. It seemed irresponsible. I had two kids. I was making way more money than I ever would have imagined that I was making and even though I liked it, I didn't love it. It just seemed unbelievably irresponsible. But my wife Meg was like Scott you got to do this. It's what you think about in your spare time, it's what you work on in your spare time. You've got to do it. And with her encouragement, nine years ago I jumped off the cliff and it's worked out pretty well.

Speaker 1: 16:02

So a couple of follow-ups on that One. The support of a supportive spouse is everything to successful people. It really is. It's a partnership, especially in a marriage, right, and would you be willing to define what more money than you can imagine meant?

Speaker 2: 16:21

Yeah, I mean at the time I was probably making 300 and something thousand a year, and that was in 2008? Which, yeah, and you know my, my dad probably never made more than 20 something thousand dollars in his life, and it just seemed like, wow, wait his life, well, I mean in a year. Yeah, per atom, yeah, wow. And he was an entrepreneur, he owned a gas station, he was a great customer service person and provided like a world-class experience, but really didn't know how to run a business and didn't understand that you actually have to make money in order to sustain that level of customer care.

Speaker 1: 16:56

Well, you just hit on something that's really important, and it's unfortunate because not everyone figures this out until it's too late. But if you are in business, your number one priority is to generate revenue. It doesn't matter if it's an altruistic business, a charity a 501, 5013, whatever right.

Speaker 2: 17:20

You have to generate revenue, otherwise it's a hobby and my dad didn't really understand that, and so he would give stuff away for free constantly and it ultimately just led to the business not being as successful as it could have been, but just seemed. If my parents ever knew to this day, I don't think. Uh, hopefully my mom does listen to these podcasts. God forbid she. I typically don't talk about the money I've made, but right, but I think they'd be shocked. So you know it was a great decision. I give Meg all the credit because we're certainly had a really nice lifestyle and she knew that my heart was in another place and she not only allowed me to do it but really encouraged me to that's so critically important.

Speaker 1: 18:03

Spouses out there, if your husband, wife, significant other, if they have a dream, push them to that dream. You might just be successful together.

Speaker 2: 18:13

And now we're reaping the benefits of that encouragement with two businesses that are relatively successful. So it's my talent strategy business, which is called Something New. That's the business I started nine years ago. Well, I'm like I want to do everything different from the experiences that I've had. So let's call it Something new and put the pressure on. We've been very fortunate. We've won eight consecutive American Business Awards for innovation, which is a record, and you have to. If you're going to call your company something new, you've got to constantly be innovating. And then the other Something new Right, exactly, otherwise you're a fraud. And the second is the outlier project, which is a membership community. That's just absolutely exploded. So I started that a couple years ago and we have about 700 members in 34 countries and it's growing, like, like a weed.

Speaker 1: 19:15

That's great scale. So what is the Outlier Project?

Speaker 2: 19:22

The Outlier Project is an opportunity for everybody to figure out how to live their version of an extraordinary life, and I think the number one way to do it is to surround yourself with extraordinary people, and throughout my life I've surrounded myself with people that were 10 steps ahead of me, because I draw inspiration and motivation and humility life.

Speaker 2: 19:37

I've surrounded myself with people that were ten steps ahead of me because I draw inspiration and motivation and humility from being around those people. And I knew that because I'm a huge relationship guy and that's really been the secret to any success that I've ever had. I knew I could give people exposure to people that they would never really be able to interact with. And whether that's, you know, we just had Matt Higgins the other day, and you know, matt was, you know, the youngest press secretary in the history of New York City, wrote a Wall Street Journal bestseller called Burn the Boats, was guest shark on Shark Tank. But we have people like that Guy Kawasaki, who's like the first evangelist in the history of you know the world, rudy rudiger, brandy chastain wait, you had the rudy rudiger.

Speaker 1: 20:24

The rudy rudiger, not sean austin's, not sean the real rudy. All right, I'm gonna pin that one because I want to talk about that for a second, sure, but so these are all very well-known individuals. Is this an invite-only organization?

Speaker 2: 20:39

No, anybody can join. It's private in terms of you have to pay dues to join, but it's extremely inexpensive and for what you're paying the value there is no other community. I think that's delivering the value that we're delivering. It's so unique. I mean it's all live and interactive. So, for instance, we had 10 people that had conversations with Rudy and they were like oh my God, this is a guy I've seen the movie 10 times and cried every time. And now I'm actually talking to him. Two days ago we had Matt Higgins and one of our members was talking about her business and her podcast and he said would it be helpful if I came on your podcast? And she also serves the military community. He said not only that, but I will get a very high ranking military official to come on as well, and just something as simple as that could change her life Absolutely and she started crying. It was really, really impactful.

Speaker 1: 21:42

Well, that's pretty amazing. And just for the record, if this does make it into the cut, this episode is not a plug for Scott or his business or any hiker's business. I myself am very inspired by the Outlier Project, so that's why I'm asking the questions I'm asking. I think it's pretty cool that you're able to do this. So just a little more detail on it. How does the Outlier Project work? I sign up, what do I do? You?

Speaker 2: 22:06

sign up. We have 200 live interactive virtual events a year 200. And we have 12 in-person meetups, everything from. In two weeks I'll be in Nicaragua and we're going to help build a library for one of our members, pete Shaler, who runs a non-profit in Nicaragua called Rio de Sol, and then we're off to the Kentucky Derby and the Army-Navy game and Head of the Charles and US Open and all kinds of things we're going.

Speaker 2: 22:39

Brandi Chastain, who's a legendary female soccer player, probably scored arguably the most famous goal in soccer history, is a very good friend of mine. She just started her pro soccer team called Bay FC, so we're going to San Francisco to support her and watch a game and she's gonna spend the game with us. So just unique stuff. Meryl Hodge will be with us for the Kentucky Derby. So it's just. These friendships that I've built over decades are priceless and I realize that those relationships give me access to do things that normally people don't have the access to do, and it's a blessing and I want to share that with as many people as I possibly can. So I absolutely love that.

Speaker 1: 23:25

So I'm going to go down the road and say you probably put high value on building real relationships. What's your take?

Speaker 2: 23:35

on that. It's the if I don't know that I have any superpower other than that I'm better at building relationships high level, strategic relationships than the average bear, because I have a strategy, I have a system to do it and I understand what it means. My ability to do good things in the world is directly proportional to the people that I know, and the more high impact people I know, the more opportunity I have to accomplish the things that I want to accomplish, to do good in the world and, as I said before, kind of make that dash meaningful, you know so making the dash meaningful, one relationship at a time.

Speaker 1: 24:18

By the way, it's probably going to be the title of this. I see walking around in nature. You get this inspiration. It just comes to you. So I want to take a quick pivot and I'm sure we'll circle back, because my adhd brain does that I got it too, yep well, okay, let's go on that pivot tangent first. You have ADHD.

Speaker 2: 24:37

I do. How has that helped you? I didn't know I had it. I knew I had a learning disability. I wasn't sure what it was. It was diagnosed when I was an adult and I said screw it, I've figured out how to navigate. And it's actually I think it's kind of like if you lose your eyesight they say your hearing gets better. So because there were certain things that I just really struggled to do, it made me relationship building is probably the number one thing Like I really understand how to develop deep friendships. So I don't think about networking, I think about my friendships. Like what do I have for friendships? Connections on LinkedIn stuff like that are absolutely meaningless. If you're in my phone and I can call you and you're going to be happy that I called you or sent you a text. That's a relationship, that's a friendship. That means something to me.

Speaker 1: 25:30

I was very happy when you called me this morning because the one thing I normally do with guests is a follow-up just to make sure we're trudging out here. Crew and equipment we're on. And I will say my heart skipped a beat when you called. I was about seven minutes out and I was like, oh no, I hope he's not canceling. But no, you didn't.

Speaker 2: 25:50

So I guess I am honored that you called me no, I've been looking forward to this for since the day we set it up.

Speaker 1: 25:56

That is awesome and I love it All right, so back to ADHD. How has it hurt you?

Speaker 2: 26:03

How has it stumbled you or held you back? It hurt me early on because it dictated a lot of the choices that I made and it put me at somewhat of a disadvantage. I kind of had an inkling that I was going to go into sales because I thought, if I was a good communicator, that's really what I needed, and certainly empathy, work ethic, discipline, resiliency, all that other stuff is incredibly meaningful. But I knew I wasn't going to be able to go to law school Like. I just knew that was not going to be for me. I wasn't going to be an accountant Like it. Just that stuff just does not work for me. So it narrowed my choices. It definitely dictated I was a communication major in college and I chose that because I did think I was going to go into sales and I knew that presentation skills and writing and being able to speak and convey messages was really important and I thought I'd get the most of that. But it really. There were certain subjects and I graduated with honors from school, Even with ADHD.

Speaker 1: 27:06

So it's just proof that ADHD doesn't have to be a disability when it comes to learning. You know what. You lead the way. This is your backyard.

Speaker 2: 27:14

I'm so into this conversation I forgot what was going on. Welcome to my world.

Speaker 1: 27:19

This is why I do what I do. I love it. Adhd is a very important topic to me. In fact, it's very apropos for this conversation because I am big on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn, but I use it for therapy. To me, linkedin is my journal, so I get to tell the world about what's on my mind and that keeps me engaged, keeps me honest.

Speaker 1: 27:43

And today's post as apropos as this is on February 8th is about ADHD and how I was labeled the dumb kid and thrown away by the education system. But I wasn't the dumb kid, I was just bored, frustrated and distracted. So it's a very near and dear topic to mine. But I often get a little bit concerned when people call ADHD a superpower as well, because there are plenty of people who have it, that struggle, and we only hear the success stories, much like everything else in life. We hear of Bezos and his boats, but we don't hear of the million other entrepreneurs that failed and are struggling to feed their families. So it is not a superpower, it's just what you choose to do with it, based on your circumstance, your hustle, your drive, your grit I never really even think about it me.

Speaker 2: 28:36

It's a non-issue in my mind and I don't like to hang on to stuff like that because I think sometimes you can become, you can get into a victim mindset and oh, I've got. So I don't want to be Scott McGregor, successful whatever, who has this or that you know. But I recognize it's certainly a part of my story, so I have no problem talking about it. It's just not. It's not something that's really prominent in my life.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Well, you probably also have a mild case, if I'm guessing right. There's varying cases, right? There's the extremes, just like on the autism spectrum. There's extremes from mild to all the way to almost non-functioning. Yeah, it gets very bad. I have friends whose children are very functioning, and then I have other friends where it's a daily struggle. Yep, that's the world we live in. I want to take a pivot now. Rudy Rudiger. Yep, the story's true. We know it's true, right, but did you get a chance to speak to him on any exaggerations in the movie, or did it play exactly like it should?

Speaker 2: 29:38

Yeah, I've talked to him, not during our time together that he spent with the whole community Offline. I've had lots and lots of conversations with him over the years. By and large, the movie is very accurate. There is a new addition that just came out that he said adds about 20 minutes and said he said changes kind of the whole thing. So I haven't seen it yet and I'm not sure what it actually explores. That was kind of cut out in the in the first version. But he's an extraordinary guy. Really. He's an outlier. To me he's the perfect definition of an outlier. He was not born with steve jobs brain, yet he gets into notre dame. He was not born with Steve Jobs' brain, yet he gets into Notre Dame. He was not born with Michael Jordan's DNA. He plays football at Notre Dame. Granted, not a starter played a couple plays, but he's a true outlier. That's the definition of an outlier, and he was. You know, I thought I said, rudy, I want to kick off 2024 because to me you're like the outlier's outlier.

Speaker 1: 30:43

He's the underdog that Americans want to cheer for, but it's the heart. It's the classic story of you can get told can't a million times you got to ignore it. The people who are told can't and ignore it seem to survive and thrive the most. So I love that, and something has always kind of bothered me about the story so I might as well go there. Yeah, they threw him in at the last moment of the game. There was no chance in losing, correct, correct.

Speaker 2: 31:13

Yeah, they had already had Georgia Tech. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Now we're all cheering for the underdog that he's out there and he's playing, but he did show talent as well. Right, he was talented, but he just didn't get his shot. What's your opinion on the fact that they threw him in there knowing that they can't lose that? It is more of a contrived American sob story and it's, in a way, kind of messed up that we made him the poster child well, I mean or anyone in that position?

Speaker 2: 31:44

I think number one it was really a confirmation of here's a guy who had no business even being at that school, nevertheless being on the field. That got his brains beaten in day in and day out and came back. So I think they wanted to honor him in that way. The other thing is it really wasn't a big story. Rudy had to work tirelessly to get that movie out. I mean, that movie was rejected over and over and over again and nobody knew who Rudy Rudiger was until the movie Rudy came out. So it was not this big media thing. It wasn't let's do this because it's going to look good.

Speaker 2: 32:29

You know, I think a part of the exaggeration done for Hollywood was the Rudy chants and things like that. Was there a smattering of that from what I've been told? Yes, there was some of that, but it was not this overwhelming. There was a small story written in, I think, the the Notre Dame or local newspaper about it, but nothing big. And even after it happened, yes, he got carried off the field, but it really was not a huge story.

Speaker 1: 32:59

So that's kind of how I always felt. It's like, oh great, you threw this kid in. He had all this heart and you just threw him in when you knew you couldn't lose, so who cares? It's very American in the thinking. I just felt more bad for Rudy because it's almost like he was like all right, monkey dance.

Speaker 2: 33:14

Yay. Well, it changed his life. I know that and I know he's incredibly grateful. He's incredibly humble. He gives credit to the most unlikely people. He's just an amazing guy and I'm blessed to call him a friend.

Speaker 1: 33:30

So let's talk about humility. How important is humility in success? I?

Speaker 2: 33:36

think it's really important. You know a lot of it. All of my friends who have met with massive success and I mean massive success. They've won Super Bowls, they've won Olympic gold medals, they've run billion dollar businesses, they've written New York Times bestselling books. Most of them never talk about it. They never talk about it. Jesse Itzler is a very good friend of mine. I follow him on LinkedIn all the time and Jesse, yes, he'll give you a little bit of like. This was the come up, but he is not talking about when he was a rap star or when he he did all these different things sold Marquise Jet to Warren Buffett, sold Zico Water to Coca-Cola, sold 29029 to iFit. He doesn't talk about that stuff. It's always what's next, what's next, and so I think they all have an incredible sense of humility and it's what drives them to move forward, because there's no finish line.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Well, you're right, I'm going to pin no finish line because I definitely want to explore that. But do you think some of the reason for the humility is the buzzword or the buzz term of imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2: 34:51

That's a good question, I know I mean that is a good question. Is humility because of imposter syndrome, probably. I think one thing that I've realized in having friends that have accomplished things that are truly extraordinary, all those things that I just mentioned like they've hoisted a Super Bowl trophy they all have imposter syndrome, every single one of them. You talk to Dick Vermeule imposter syndrome. You talk to Brandi Chastain imposter syndrome. Every single one of them. You talk to Dick Vermeule imposter syndrome. You talk to Brandy Chastain imposter syndrome. You talk to Jesse imposter syndrome. It's it just, it's all over the place.

Speaker 1: 35:26

What do you think imposter syndrome means to you?

Speaker 2: 35:29

Feeling like you don't belong, like how did I get here? I have that feeling all the time, that feeling all the time. I'm like because I still. There's a part of me that has a version of Scott McGregor growing up poor in an affluent town. Sports leveled the playing field a bit for me, but I still kind of am that kid. This is crazy, but I still like if you opened up the back of my FJ, you would see that I've got, you know, all the cans and stuff ready to go back. Like I'm going to be getting the five cents. I don't need to do that. But yeah, part of it is probably a bit of imposter syndrome. I always pinch myself and say, how the heck did I get here? Like, what am I doing here? It's always a circuitous route that got me there. It's never a straight line, so that forces you to be humble.

Speaker 1: 36:23

That forces the Itzlers of the world, the Brandy Chastains of the world, to have a sense of humility, almost because imposter syndrome registers a little bit as embarrassment of being discovered as a fraud, as a phony, and I think we all relate on the topic. Right, we've all achieved, but I've kind of pinpointed. A lot of imposter syndrome has to do with the fact that you've had your 10,000 hours of mastery. You've made what you do seem easily. So when you, for you, building relationships is easy. So when you make a connection in a relationship and it just instantly takes place, you're shocked at oh, that is easy. So when you make a connection in a relationship and it just instantly takes place, you're shocked at oh, that was easy, why is anyone buying this crap? But the reality is, is they're buying it because you spent your 10,000 hours? To you, it's registering is too easy, it's true.

Speaker 1: 37:11

I also think that everybody who you just mentioned yourself included, myself included has had a team of supportive people that have believed in the leader so much that that's probably a deep-seated reason for being humble. You can't take credit for your success. You could take credit for aspects of your success, but your spouse, meg, pushed you in the direction. No doubt you were successful before, yeah, but she was there by your side, so she's part of that. The team, the 60 people that were on your team without quota, that exceeded your expectations, were part of your success. So for you to stand on the podium and say me, me, me, I, I, I, that's pretty asinine.

Speaker 2: 37:59

I agree it's all about I have a saying people over everything, because I think that's the key to success in business is when you realize that your success in business is predicated more on your people than any other factor, and it's by a landslide than any other factor, and it's by a landslide you start to behave differently and you really think intentionally about things like talent acquisition, onboarding, retention, and it's so frustrating when I talk to a founder or a CEO and I say what's your biggest expense, they say 100% of the time they say labor, Labor's people. I'm like, okay, it's your biggest expense.

Speaker 1: 38:38

And biggest risk.

Speaker 2: 38:39

Every company wants to get to a next level. Every company, and whatever that level is, could be going public. It could be we want to get our A round of funding and I'm like what do you have to do? What do you think you have to do to get that? Most of the time not all the time, but most of the time not all the time, but most of the time the answer has something to do with people. So I'm like okay, biggest expense is people. The biggest thing that you need to do to get to the next level has to do with people. And then the third question is where the wheels come off. I say how often do you and your executive leadership team sit down and talk intentionally about your talent strategy? And the answer is never. I'm'm like well, how do you think you're going to succeed?

Speaker 1: 39:22

That's a big myth. It's crazy. It doesn't shock me. I mean, I tell my clients you've almost gotten to me where it's too late. You don't seek the marriage counselor until you're on the precipice of separation, right? There's no aha. We should solve this problem before it starts and festers, right? Same thing with partnerships, same thing with businesses and business owners. The mistrust sets in, the fairness or unfairness sets in, and a lot of it has to do with lack of communication and a disdain or lack of trust for their people. And again, people are mattering the most. I like to say people matter the most because that's what gets you to your goal.

Speaker 1: 40:04

There's no single person that has become successful without the help of others, and a great leader inspires those around them to achieve their goals. If you think about it, no one wants to work for your lifestyle company. Lifestyle companies are great, don't get me wrong, but nobody really wants to work there, because most people want to achieve the next rung on the ladder, they want to win, they want to pat on the back the achievement, the monetary bonus, the compensation. They want to meet their goals. And if you're running a lifestyle only company and you have a team of people, they're running in place forever because you're feeding your lifestyle. That's not an advantage to your people. So if you really want to meet and exceed your lifestyle, that's not an advantage to your people. So if you really want to meet and exceed your lifestyle goals, rather than the monetary goals, you need to feed the people, you need to take care of people, you need to inspire them and you need the company to grow as well. Celebrate the wins on the scoreboard together.

Speaker 2: 40:52

How do you think it's going so far? Phenomenal. It's the most fun I've had on a podcast ever. Oh great, that needs to make it into a highlight reel. I may never do another one.

Speaker 1: 41:02

I'd hate to cancel tomorrow's, but yeah, what's great about all of this is you kind of lose bearings of where you are. The conversation, just flows. Oh, it's so much fun. So much fun what I would do with my team if I had to make a difficult conversation happen. We would take a walk, yeah, because once the blood's flowing it's just easier to have that encouraging moment and then that corrective action we did walking interviews, we did walking reviews and all those things, because it does get you in a freer state of mind.

Speaker 1: 41:33

Yeah, there's no doubt when you're out here what I noticed and this is all by accident, right, happy accidents, right discovered by accident. When I did the first episode I was worried about tripping and falling. So all of a sudden I'm admitting things that I would never admit to people. I never told people I had ad adhd, but on the first episode I did right. I was like shit, why'd I say that? And I realized it's because you're too worried about tripping, stepping in something, falling, but you're not worried about covering up and fabricating. Yeah, and the guests realize that too.

Speaker 1: 42:02

So yeah, the veil is kind of uh lifted hey, listener, thanks for hiking along with us, discover more episodes at itookahikecom, or to recommend an adventurous guest, apply to be a sponsor, or to simply drop us a line. All right, shall we? Let me switch sides? So I pinned, growing up in a difficult situation. Hardship, you said you were the poor kid in an affluent area. Can we explore that a little?

Speaker 2: 42:32

Yeah, you know, I grew up in the town that we're in right now. I grew up on the shoreline in Connecticut, Madison, Connecticut. Everybody around me, their father or mom, were a doctor, a lawyer, a pilot whatever, and your dad's a gas station owner.

Speaker 2: 42:52

And my dad owned a gas station and he was an entrepreneur, but he didn't really make any money and we really did not have anything, so we were definitely economically very different. Luckily, I put everything my heart and soul into sport. It was my passion, and football and baseball, so it leveled the playing field for me. Because I think if you're a decent athlete, your friend group changes, everything changes. So it didn't really, and no one. And I think it you're a decent athlete, your friend group changes, everything changes. So it didn't really, and no one. And I think it taught me too that no one really cared that we drove a car that, even though it was the typical cobbler with no shoes like the cars we had, were so embarrassing it was crazy.

Speaker 1: 43:32

Do not get me started on embarrassing cars. I think I might beat you.

Speaker 2: 43:35

So my dad had a car that had a hole in the roof and the and he had spilled grass seed and there was grass growing about this tall on the passenger side. If you can beat that, I'm gonna, I'll give you. You were the clampets.

Speaker 1: 43:51

We were the clampets. Oh wow, okay, I don't know if I could beat that. We had something that we nicknamed the Nick Mobile.

Speaker 2: 43:58

Yep.

Speaker 1: 43:58

Because a gentleman, probably about a week before he died in his 90s, knocked on my dad's door. He was a neighbor and said, hey, do you want my car? I'm dying? And my dad gladly accepted it, without knowing what it was. Yep, because that was my dad and this thing had rust holes everywhere. I don't know what model it was, because I'm fairly certain Chevy or Chrysler had wanted to erase it, but it was the color of these dead leaves, yeah, with an interior bench seat with holes in it and rips of the color of these dead leaves. And it started without a key and it had rust everywhere. And that was my brother's first car and that was the car that I got dropped off at school three blocks away, mind you and my dad was very happy with his free automobile.

Speaker 1: 44:47

And yes, like you, my dad had a great work ethic. He worked as an architect, but architects don't make a lot of money. The owner of the firm does. So he had to start his own side hustle business where he did architecture for residential homes on the weekends and during the day it was building the buildings in Manhattan, worked on the world trade center and big buildings like that. But yeah, he didn't make a lot of money, yeah at all. So humble beginnings. I was not the rich kid either, but I did what I could to fit in, like you. So do you? Did you ever get picked on for being the poor kid in the rich town?

Speaker 2: 45:24

I think because of sports. I didn't, luckily, so I never had to really deal with that, but I had embarrassing situations. My mom was a seamstress, so my mom made our clothes and I remember in sixth grade everybody started wearing Oxford shirts like how Connecticut of you right exactly how very preppy of us.

Speaker 2: 45:43

So I had mine on and somebody grabbed the collar and said is this, you know, whatever? Ralph Lauren. And in it it said made with love by Kathy. It was a moment that I was very embarrassed. You know, at the end of the day Were you made fun of Not really again sports, like just really. I'm so blessed that I never dealt with the teasing or anything like that. I never had to deal with any of that bullying.

Speaker 1: 46:13

That was completely, I think, due to due to athletics, so I like how you fit in in that sense. Plus, you probably were good at whatever sports you picked right I hope you were, Otherwise that would have gotten you picked on.

Speaker 2: 46:26

I went to school on a Division I baseball scholarship. What position I would have played second base in college. I wound up blowing out my back. I got a buddy of mine, jeff Bagwell, who's in the baseball hall of fame now. He's probably the greatest Houston Astro of all time. He and I grew up together. He said, hey, take a look at this program at the university of Hartford. I'm going there and Pat Hedges going there and all these other guys who wound up getting drafted. And I went up and I met the coach. This guy, bill Dennehy great guy, phenomenal recruiter decided to go there.

Speaker 2: 47:02

I herniated a disc in my back they were going to do I had the choice I could do surgery or not, and I was just like you know what. I'm 18 years old. I'm not having back surgery at 18 and I'd rather call it a wrap on my sports career. And was that a kick to the nuts? It was, but I focused all of that. So I had an insane work ethic and I was incredibly disciplined, always like my whole life, and I just turned that into. Let's put that into school and put that into you know. Then my first job, and I was like you know, I was an absolute nut job, like a maniac uh, it's this work, ethic and drive that seems to be a common trend did.

Speaker 1: 47:47

Was there a brief moment where you thought that your career, your life was, was potentially in limbo?

Speaker 2: 47:54

no, I, I still thought, you know, I was going to play in the majors one day and you know it's funny that the guy who was sitting on my couch drinking a beer wound up being one of the greatest players in the history of baseball. But you know, I think we all have those delusions of grandeur. At times I wanted to be a rock and roll drummer. Look at me now. I've also always viewed like, anything like that, that happened. I truly believe adversity is a gift, like adversity is the greatest gift. You don't see it sometimes in the moment, but all the insane stuff that's happened to me throughout my life and I I mean some of it is, you know, almost unbelievable. It's really, it's the reason for any success that I've had. So I really view adversity, covid, I'm like this is just a moment in time.

Speaker 2: 48:48

I remember when 9-11 happened and it was like you know, the majority of our business was coming out of New York City. Majority of our business was coming out of New York City. And it's how do you sell when the world is paralyzed and it's seems so inappropriate to be, you know, selling anything when you know the world is in such chaos? But those are all gifts, those are all things that you know. They lead you to be able to take that next punch, cause there's always going to be one, and you know.

Speaker 2: 49:21

Whether it's nine, 11, whether it's the meltdown of oh eight, whether it's COVID, there's always something. And the more you get hit and the more you're able to like okay, I can handle that the more confidence. I remember somebody on my team saying like man, how are you so calm? Because I've been through so much adversity that it doesn't. It's not that it doesn't phase me at all, but it has a far less of an impact. Yeah, it's just, it's like doing reps in a gym. I've just built that resilience muscle and I don't get and I don't get knocked down or distracted that easily.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Any bad situation. There will always be an opportunity and an upward trend in momentum at some point.

Speaker 2: 50:08

And it forces you to think differently, to think like okay, you know, I think this is my only avenue, but that's never true. My old boss, when I was a CRO, I reported to the CEO and he had a rule that when you went to him you always had to have multiple solutions to the problem and the first one that you gave him he would always reject. It didn't matter what it was, and what it taught me over time was there's so many different ways to solve a problem but we sometimes just get locked in on. This is the only way that this business will work or we can make revenue or whatever.

Speaker 2: 50:53

And you know COVID was a great example of so many companies that pivoted tremendously and you would have thought, man, they're dead. Joe DeSena, who's the CEO of Spartan, is a friend of mine and you think here's a company Spartan Races that all they do are outdoor races that they could not do, and he had a call every morning at six o'clock and I joined that call every single day for months on end to listen to him and his leadership through. You would think there's no possible way this company survives and they're thriving right now especially without any revenue, but that that is resilience and fortitude.

Speaker 1: 51:36

I'm sure they had enough free cash reserves to weather the storm, and I can guarantee there were lots of heated, panicked moments, of course oh, huge. Absolutely Everyone faced the same reality. I think it's important to realize that we are all human and, no matter how big or small your business is, everyone weathered the storm together, and there are plenty of big companies that no longer exist because they just couldn't stay. They didn't have the ability to stay the game or stay the long game. This is quite a lovely trail, by the way not quite a trail, but just the whole area itself.

Speaker 1: 52:16

You are fortunate to have lived on such a great hiking area. Yeah, it's a cool.

Speaker 2: 52:21

Sometimes I forget.

Speaker 1: 52:22

By the way, when I'm looking at my phone I should probably note this sometimes because you capture it on the video when I'm looking at my phone, I'm either looking at a trail map or taking a note to follow up later. I am not being the rude person answering emails.

Speaker 2: 52:38

So we're gonna go right through here. All right. So what's next for you? I am really excited about everything that we have going on with the outlier project, so I am all chips in. Let's give you a plug. How do we find the Outlier Project? It's very easy you go to the outlierprojectco and You're into those Colombian subdomains, huh, or top level domains. All the information's there, so it's easy.

Speaker 1: 53:11

I love that. I think it's a pretty cool concept and I will certainly be checking it out. It's cool. It's definitely cool. So let's talk about your family. Sure, what are the kids up to?

Speaker 2: 53:24

So my boys have struggled to a degree. Both joined the military right out of high school. My oldest joined the Marine Corps. My youngest joined the 82nd Airborne. My oldest was a very good wrestler. He was on the national team and he wanted to go to college to wrestle and I said Indiana, right, that's the top school.

Speaker 2: 53:49

Iowa, probably top school, but he wasn't that good and I said, well, you're not going to go to college just to wrestle? And he said, well, what about the military? So they both joined the military. When you say struggled.

Speaker 1: 54:03

What do you mean struggle?

Speaker 2: 54:04

Well earlier in their life. So I was a single dad. When they were 10 and 12, their mom abandoned them and moved to Florida and so I was left with a 10 and 12 year old, both with learning disabilities, and I had a crazy job as a CRO and two horses, two dogs, et cetera, and I was all on my own, unmarried. Well, my wife moved to Florida, she left and we got divorced. That had to be tough on them. You know it's tough. I think it's especially tough when you already have issues. You know, later in life.

Speaker 2: 54:47

Unfortunately, my oldest son, uh, has had severe substance abuse issues and you know he's been homeless, he's been in and out of the hospital, he's been in jail and you know he's trying to find his way. My, uh, my youngest son is is doing really well. He's in california, uh, he's an emt, probably going to become a firefighter or do something, uh of that nature. But you know, I'm proud of I'm proud of both of them for the adversity that they faced and the fact that even my oldest, while he's, you know, struggled more than anybody I've ever known. He figures out how to get up every day and put his feet on the floor and I don't know how in the world he does it. Of course you do. Have you met his father? Well, he's a different level in terms of what he is dealing with and where he's at in life. How old is he? He's 30. What was the substance?

Speaker 1: 55:51

Heroin, I didn't want to guess, but yeah, it's. Unfortunately, that is a real pandemic that we're not doing enough with in this country.

Speaker 2: 56:02

It's shocking because he went from probably the most dedicated kid you could possibly imagine in wrestling. I mean, he would say I'm going to float you know a quarter of a pound in my sleep and make weight, and you know he was competing at the highest level. You could compete, um, all states, yup, and you know, on the national team. So he was uh, you know he's doing some pretty cool stuff to you know, a kid who wouldn't touch anything to that slippery slope what was it hanging out with the wrong crowd, depression.

Speaker 2: 56:38

Yeah, mental illness, that you know. He was in therapy from. You know, probably the time he was five years old and just really struggled with a multitude of different issues. Do you blame yourself of different issues? Do you blame yourself? I don't. I was incredibly present, never missed. I coached every single sport. I never missed a school event ever. You know super, super involved with my kids and I really don't.

Speaker 1: 57:16

So you were the picture of a perfect, you know American supportive father. Yet things can go wrong. Were there any warning?

Speaker 2: 57:25

signs. I mean, there were definitely warning signs because he, you know, he had had issues, uh, with anxiety and depression and they weren't. They weren't really sure what it was. I mean, I had this was probably a scary moment. He was, I don't know, maybe eight years old and I had a doctor, this guy Blake Taggart. He said to me and this guy is a Harvard and Yale grad he said Tucker's the most complex case I've ever seen in my career. So they, it wasn't, you know, you've got adhd, it was. So it's so complicated. And then later in life, when you threw substance abuse on top of that, it's just a recipe for disaster why do you think he turned to substance abuse?

Speaker 2: 58:11

uh, just trying to cope with life, that's, you know listen I.

Speaker 1: 58:15

I've had my own challenges as well in my early 20s. You know it's there. You're trying to figure yourself out as a human. What is this life for? You're facing all these complex problems, someone passes you something and you just want to be part of the party yep and you know you, you do whatever that thing is and it it wakes you up and you say, wow, what have I been missing my whole life? And then, unfortunately, when it comes to a substance as as challenging as heroin, it's addictive right away.

Speaker 2: 58:45

Yeah you, there's certain things you can't unring the bell, and you know that's one of them. That boy it is. Uh, it's not impossible, because I've seen plenty of people that have conquered it, but it's certainly extraordinarily difficult.

Speaker 1: 59:01

The story is very universal and, unfortunately, parents in this country are dealing with it at a very early age, in early teens now and it definitely needs to be talked about more. Do you think you had a moment where you could have grabbed him and said, "'you're cutting it out now.

Speaker 2: 59:18

I'm you here, I'm taking control yeah, I mean I, I unfortunately, you know, I communicated very clearly with both of them, and not just communicated, but like in writing. These are the rules. If you break these rules, these are the consequences, and they knew exactly what that, what those were, and unfortunately they, they chose, uh, not to listen or not believe that that would happen. And you know, I had to make them both leave, uh, the house when they were uh, 18, um and uh, that was. That was unfortunate, but those are. You know I've learned I can't live their life for them. You know they have to make their decisions and my job as a dad is to let them know every single day that they're loved and that I'm never going anywhere. It doesn't matter what happens or what they do. They're always my kids and I'll always love them unconditionally. But there's certain things that are, you know, just an absolute. You know, note, zero tolerance, do you?

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

have hope or belief that they will kick it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

Yeah, I mean, my youngest son is doing great, my oldest son. I always think there's hope, and only because I have so much exposure to people that have beat it. And humans are unbelievably resilient, just unbelievably.

Speaker 1: 1:00:55

We're the most adaptable, resilient species to have ever walked this earth.

Speaker 2: 1:00:59

So, yeah, I hope you know I I'm pretty sure he's been sober for about a year. You check in often yeah, quite a bit, and you know it's. We're always hoping for the best. That's exactly right. Well, I for one think that you're always hoping for the best.

Speaker 1: 1:01:18

That's exactly right. Well, I for one think that you're a pretty stand-up father. It's interesting to me, though, that you are the picturesque father that any child would want to have. Right? It's the cliche of the broken home. Not really the case. Yes, you had a separation, your wife left, but that's not a broken home. You were still working. You were working hard for your family, you were taking care of your children, so that's not a fault. That's nothing that you can pinpoint and say oh, it's the father's fault or the mother's fault. It's just that's how life tends to work out.

Speaker 2: 1:01:48

Yeah, I think it's a. It's a crazy combination of DNA and you know mental illness on. You know my dad had mental illness, my sister's bipolar. There's a lot of their mom, her father was bipolar, so there's a lot of funky DNA in there and we're still trying to figure that out. He's likely bipolar. He's never been diagnosed because I think he's just from a generation.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

Back in that day, men don't cry.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

Yeah, it was. Oh, your dad's got a nervous stomach. It's not like, no, my dad has crippling anxiety, he's got a nervous stomach, let's feed him some arsenic Always these things. Excuses that were made and I think it was just more of the times. It was, you know. So he went. He's basically gone his whole life. He's 80 now, but he's gone kind of undiagnosed and it's led to a, you know, a pretty unfulfilling life, I think, for him, unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 1:02:51

Do you speak with him or visit him? Often I do Lives close he does.

Speaker 2: 1:02:55

He lives in the next town over and I've always kind of been the black sheep in my family.

Speaker 1: 1:03:01

In what way?

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

I just, I never wanted to live the way that my parents lived. We have that in common. I was bound and determined that I was just not going to live that life and I was going to do everything humanly possible to make sure that I wasn't. And it wasn't for material things, it was. I didn't want that stress and that anxiety. And you know, I remember Christmases and birthdays. I knew my parents couldn't afford, you know, to get presents, but I would get presents and it was like it's it sucks to be, you know, eight years old and you're stressed out because you know you're going to get a present that your parents can't afford. Like an eight year old shouldn't be thinking about stuff like that. But uh, you know, we never went on any vacations. Uh, we never went to a restaurant. We, we just, you know, and we couldn't afford it. So I get it, but I never wanted to live that way and I knew very early on.

Speaker 1: 1:04:04

So I was just absolutely determined to do things differently, so do you think that's the basis for your drive for success? Is that you just wanted this better life?

Speaker 2: 1:04:15

Yeah, that's a part of it. I also, when I was 40 years old. This is a crazy story. You wanna go?

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

into it Absolutely. Slow down our pace then.

Speaker 2: 1:04:27

When I was 40 years old, I got what I thought was the swine flu and I had an insane fever, crazy high fever. What?

Speaker 1: 1:04:37

was your number.

Speaker 2: 1:04:39

Oh, it was like I don't know, 104, 105, something like that. For an adult it was crazy high. So went to the local emergency room and they said, yeah, you have swine flu. But right before I left they said I have this little like pain in my chest. I think it's from working out. And they said, ah, let's do an EKG. And they were like ready to discharge me. So they did.

Speaker 2: 1:05:05

And this doctor said came back and he said I've never seen this before and I don't know what it is, but I think I remember it from when I was in med school and it's, I think it's called Brugada. And he said you know, luckily, the number one Brugada specialist probably in the world is Mark Marab at Yale. And he said why don't you go see? You know, Dr Merib. And I saw Dr Merib and he said, yeah, you've got Brugada syndrome and let me tell you what it is, because I know you're going to go home and Google it when you do. You're going to find out.

Speaker 2: 1:05:50

It's called SUDS Sudden Unexpected Death Syndrome and it's the proverbial. You know, you hear about the 40 year old. They're in great shape, they're an athlete and they just dropped dead. And everyone's like, oh, my God, can you believe that Steve or Bobby dropped dead and there's no symptoms and there's no cure? The only thing you can do is have a pacemaker implanted in your chest with wires to your heart. So right here I have a pacemaker. So I live every day. I mean, we all live like this. We all live not knowing when our last moment is. But because I have Brugada syndrome, it could hit me because there's no symptoms at any moment. So I live life with insane urgency because, I don't know, I have an insurance policy, because I have a defibrillator implanted in me and that hopefully, should anything happen, would bring me back, but you never know, would bring me back, but you know, you never know. So it makes you think about life a little bit differently.

Speaker 2: 1:07:03

Um, you know, I remember growing up. Uh, we always used to. You know there were special occasions and special occasions for the mcgregors was. You know we were going to have. Uh, you know my mom was going to not use paper plates. She was going to use like chinette. Uh, or you know we were going to have. You know my mom was going to not use paper plates. She was going to use like Chinette. Or you know we were going to have like fake champagne. It was called cold duck and stuff like that. That was a special occasion. But my parents, like they, kept stuff for special occasions and I've lived my life with the philosophy that every day is a special occasion, like this moment is a special occasion.

Speaker 2: 1:07:42

So I'm not going to hold back on anything, because you never, ever know. So I say, like, pop the champagne, start the business that you want to start, live the life that you want to live, hang out with the people that you want to hang out with, do the stuff that matters to you, because every moment is a special occasion and that you know. For me that it's been a gift, because it's just a constant reminder, even though it's not something I think about all the time. It is a reminder, like every day when I wake up, because typically when you have an episode, it happens when you're sleeping. You have episodes. No, I don't, no, because I'd be dead.

Speaker 1: 1:08:25

Well, hopefully it would kick in.

Speaker 2: 1:08:26

Well, hopefully it would kick in, but it's so far it's been. You know I'm 56. So it's been sitting in there for 16 years just sitting there waiting. So it's kind of a crazy. It's a crazy thing, but it makes me appreciate every moment, like this moment that we're having right now, like I'm exactly where my feet are, this is where I want to be at this moment and this is meaningful to me. So it changes your perspective on everything.

Speaker 1: 1:08:57

I could be present listening to you speak all day long. That was incredibly inspirational, one of the most inspirational things I've ever heard.

Speaker 2: 1:09:06

I don't talk about it very often and I think I don't. It's not because I'm not embarrassed about it you shouldn't be, but I don't want to be Scott McGregor. He's got this insane condition called Brigada syndrome. Like I don't want that to be synonymous with my name. I'm perfectly fine telling the story because it's a. It's a part of who I am and how I live every single day, but I don't want to be defined by it.

Speaker 1: 1:09:35

Well, you shouldn't be. It's just another plight of man, of humanity, at the end of the day. You're right. You can cross a street and get hit by a car. You can slip on some ice, like Dr Atkins right, anything can happen, but to get hit with that. I imagine when the doctor told you this, that was a wake-up call.

Speaker 2: 1:09:54

Yeah, you know, I had two young kids and I'm like, okay, there's, there's no cure. I only have one choice get the defibrillator. And it was a no brainer to have the surgery.

Speaker 1: 1:10:07

What is the lump exactly? You said there was a. There was a lump on the EKG.

Speaker 2: 1:10:11

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if this is creepy for you, but you can feel it.

Speaker 1: 1:10:15

That's your defibrillator. That's my defibrillator?

Speaker 2: 1:10:20

No, but you said, when they went in for an EKG, what did they see? They saw a tiny blip on the EKG and Dr Merib said Scott, it's a miracle. So brugada is probably one of the most misunderstood or not understood conditions. Because there's no symptoms, so you can't study it, because you might have it but you would never know you had it. Well, what happened is one day Darren dies and everyone's like, oh my God, like how this guy was in perfect health, and they think they never really know. They think that a lot of those cases are are Brugada, but it's so, it's, it's there.

Speaker 2: 1:10:59

It's almost impossible to study. The only way that that spike shows up is if. If I have a super high fever, like if I had an EKG right now, it wouldn't show up. Um, but if I had a high fever, that's the only reason it showed up. So Dr Merib said it's a miracle that you said and the pain that I had in my chest was from working out. It had nothing to do with anything other than that. And he said the fact that a doctor in a walk-in ER would remember something so obscure and rare from med school and go. I think you should check this out. I think it's this thing called Brugada syndrome is a miracle. Maybe it's why I'm here today. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:11:49

Well, I normally like to end the show on some success notes, inspiration notes, and I think this one's a good way to end it. You are the thinking back on my life, over 43 years. You are the most inspirational person I've ever met. Wow, Hands down.

Speaker 2: 1:12:08

And I love.

Speaker 1: 1:12:10

I love this moment. Yeah, it means a lot to me. You are a fantastic human, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:12:15

Thank you, and I'm happy you're with us, you have to just deal with the cards that you're dealt, and I never, ever, I've seen so many people walk around like a victim and I don't want to say my kids, their mom abandoned them and you know that may be led to substance abuse in my oldest son, or I have this condition, or you know there's been many, many, many crazy things that have happened throughout my life. I don't want to ever. I'm not a victim at all. It is truly. Adversity is a gift. It's a gift.

Speaker 1: 1:12:55

This episode was made with love by Kathy.

Speaker 2: 1:12:59

It was seriously. You can check the tag.

Speaker 1: 1:13:02

Scott McGregor. That was fun. Thank you for taking a hike with me. I love you, man. I would say that's a wrap. Next time on I Took a Hike. A harrowing season-ending episode as we explore the harsh reality of Daniel Regan's journey from literally the bottom of the rock all the way to the top of recovery to form new beginnings as the founder of Healing Us Centers. This episode is proudly brought to you by Brand Built, a dynamic social media networking community designed to elevate your success. Feeling stuck in a brand loop. Your brand matters more than ever before and falling behind is not an option. Join our dynamic community for expert social media guidance, valuable lessons, education, weekly spotlights, monthly speakers and a robust brand building network. Explore more at mybrandbuiltcom and join me in the chat for a thriving journey to success.