Ep. 004: Finding Balance in a Digital World - from Bird Watching to Bird Hunting with Ben Lizdas

Do you ever stop to consider the importance of connecting with nature and how it can benefit your physical and mental health? My friend Ben Lizdas, Business Development Manager for North America at Swarovski Optic, joined me in the BunkHaus to chat about his passion for birdwatching, hunting, and outdoor adventure. Together, we explore the impact of the industrial revolution on our connection to nature and discuss how a nature-based lifestyle can lead to a healthier, happier life.

As technology advances, it's easy to get lost in the convenience of digital environments. Ben and I examine the temptation to give in to these digital distractions, while also pondering the potential consequences of turning away from nature. We talk about the unique experiences found in nature that cannot be replicated elsewhere, and how hunting can help us harmonize with our surroundings while providing sustenance. Additionally, we touch on the use of technology in birdwatching and share our preference for keeping the experience as analog as possible.

Finally, we delve into the joy of phenology and the importance of building nature connections through hunting and fishing. From the Texas Christmas tradition of dove hunting to the awe-inspiring migration of birds, we discuss how these outdoor activities can help fill our "phenology calendar" and foster a deeper understanding of our natural world. Join us as we explore the wonders of nature together and reflect on the crucial role it plays in our physical and emotional well-being.

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Presented by:
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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Bunkhouse podcast broadcasting from the confluence of outdoor recreation and nature connectivity. I'm your host, josh Crumpton, founder of Spokalo Outdoors and the Los O'Vallé food truck. My life as a rancher, guide, foodie and conservationist has provided the opportunity to meet some really great people. The Bunkhouse is where we get to introduce them to you. In this episode. I'm flying solo, hanging out in the Bunkhouse with my good friend, ben Lizdas. Ben works for Swarovski Optic as the business development manager for North America. I've been honored to watch Ben walk the road from naturalist and birdwatcher to supporting conservationist. He may be one of the most intentional individuals I have ever met, so observing his approach to learning, hunting and fishing has been a true pleasure. We discuss the importance of nature connection, birdwatching, bird hunting and outdoor adventure. The episode is short in length, but deep in thought. Hopefully it will leave you with some things to ponder. With all that said, let's get this thing started. I don't know your official title. What is your official title?

Speaker 2: 1:16

Yeah, it's hard to get your head wrapped around all the different things that I do. My official title would be Business Development Manager for North America, which really sounds a lot more boring than the job actually is.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Yeah, your job is way more fun than that. Exactly So Ben is doing.

Speaker 2: 1:34

Developing business and the kind of business that we do is actually kind of fun. It's fun business.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Yeah, how long have you been with Swarovski?

Speaker 2: 1:42

I've been with Swarovski for just four years, but that's kind of half the story really. I've been working in binoculars and optics, primarily in birdwatching, since 1999. Oh wow, so I've known Swarovski and had a relationship with them for 24 years now.

Speaker 2: 2:03

So it's just now. I'm finally like they're the ones who are paying me directly. I used to work in the retail end of selling optics to birdwatchers. That's how I got into this whole thing. My background is in plants, restoration, ecology, landscape architectures kind of what my jam was in college And it starts out with the same fundamental principles, right The outdoors, nature, ecology, understanding how things work, the science of it all. So, pivoting into a profession that was tangential to that, but that's still touching on those points, it all revolves around a passion for nature in the outdoors, right. And as I was going through college, there was no question that I was not going to be an accountant or an engineer. It was. You know, what kind of living can I do to be outside? So I thought, oh, habitat restoration.

Speaker 1: 2:54

Wow, that's pretty cool. Well, you're outside a lot, which is so cool.

Speaker 2: 2:57

I try to be.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Yeah, and you're very happy, so I think it shows that you're outside a lot.

Speaker 2: 3:03

I am such a firm believer that being outdoors generates joy and is fundamentally good for people's well-being, and that is like a thread I've been pulling on lately to see unraveling Like, well, what is it with us, whether it's the Japanese forest bathing or bird watching or hunting, or just, you know, cancer patients spending time, you know looking at trees, you know looking at birds out of window and all of a sudden kind of having some perspective and being a little bit more present and kind of just realizing that we don't always control things. Or, you know, there's so many lessons that nature can teach us and being outdoors And so there's this sort of maybe kind of mental aspect, mental health aspect of spending time outdoors. And then they're finding more and more through the science is actually like real physical benefits to breathing clean air and, you know, touching soil and doing some of those things who would have thought, right, yeah, it's almost as if we evolved out of nature.

Speaker 1: 4:06

Yeah, It's almost like we were made to be there.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 4:09

It's almost like. Could you imagine that? us being in a place that is you know where we're supposed to be is good for us.

Speaker 2: 4:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:16

Yeah, And it's. You know. I've always find it interesting how much up until this point, because I think that mankind is changing its tune for fortunately for all of us. But so much of the Agerian and industrial revolutions were spent delaminating humanity and, kind from nature, dominating nature and separating this as a city, And it has straight lines and tall buildings And we put you know, look at New York City. We push nature into a box and we call it Central Park, and that's where nature lives.

Speaker 1: 4:58

And we have mastered it and controlled it, and I think that we're going through an awakening as a species where it's like wait a minute, no, no. we need to be congruent with nature.

Speaker 2: 5:12

I hope so. I hope so, and I would push back a little bit on that and that I think I have a little bit of fear. Maybe this is why we're pivoting towards real nature right now, but I have a little bit of a fear that we are becoming better and better at creating digital environments that make us happy in all sorts of ways that we can manipulate and manifest and just sort of explore intellectually in a way that just separates us from the real deal. And one of the things for me about nature is I always try to keep it as analog as possible. My experience is out there. You know bird watching. It's really popular to use eBird, which is an app that you can use.

Speaker 1: 5:50

Citizen science is downloading with the point of no one watching it.

Speaker 2: 5:54

Well, this is more of a like you list the birds that you see as you're going out in the numbers of them, and you can submit bird lists, et cetera. I don't use it just because I not that I have a problem with it in and of itself, but for me personally it really is. I like to be analog.

Speaker 1: 6:11

Do you upload after the fact just for data collection for the machine? I don't, I don't, I just keep it all personal, It's all for me. Do you write it in the journal?

Speaker 2: 6:20

Sometimes I mean I journal pretty regularly about sort of my day, you know, and a lot, there's a lot about the birds that I've seen and the flowers that I'm seeing coming up And they you know they were. I got the other day I was out actually hunting at a friend's farm. What am I doing out there? I'm listening, like the first sandhill cranes of the year and the Kildir and the Eastern Meadowlarks And for the first time, you know, spring's just starting to pop in Wisconsin. You know, just like note little observations like that, the phenology, really, the phenology is one of the things that I love about spending time outdoors, understanding the time stamp that happens as you observe nature, and that you can witness and watch through these larger than life events like animal migration and the changing of how much sunlight you know you're getting in a given day, and all these things affect the plants and animals And it's a beautiful way of marking time.

Speaker 1: 7:13

I think that that's a big part of the joy that we get being in the outdoors. Is that phenology?

Speaker 2: 7:19

is getting us more connected to a different rhythm, to the real rhythm because we, exactly because my Google calendar did not tell me the past, flowers were supposed to be blooming today. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:32

Before we get. I do want to talk about that because we had a cool conversation about that yesterday and I want to get into sort of how that applies to my world and also talk a little bit about hunting. But I do want to note you know, i couldn't agree with you more that there is a group, there is a large group of people who are moving more and more into digital space And that is a real threat to the natural world and our connectivity to the natural world. And but what I will say is there are also a lot of us who are moving in the other direction. And if the digital space, the people who are putting a precedence on living in the metaverse, want to just go ahead and upload into the metaverse and jump on the spaceship and go to the space and leave it, but no, i do think that I watch with my kids. Everything is something mindful that we all need to be mindful.

Speaker 2: 8:25

It's really interesting when we think of this concept of environment. You can look at the evolution of. We are sort of evolving as tribal nomadic people And then, next thing, you know we created an environment and structure that was physical, like this building, and we had all sorts of comfort and it changed the way that we interacted with the outdoors. And now we're creating digital environments where you know it's. It relieves you of a lot of the inconvenience of hopping in a vehicle or going for a long walk. There's a lot of comfort about being able to probably just jump into a digital environment. It can be manipulated. It's fantastic. I mean, as a kid I would have loved it. But we're just getting too. I fear that we're getting too good at it. It's too appealing in a lot of ways. Really kind of makes you want to pull back a little bit. And this might sound like the middle age guy being like get off my lawn. You know, like your rock and roll music is just a fad, you know.

Speaker 2: 9:17

So I don't want to come across that way of like me anti-digital or anti-technology, But I just, you know, I, just, as someone who studied like ecology and biology, you see the evolution And you understand how we evolved in the landscape over thousands of years and you just can't turn your back on that over the course of 25 or 50 years. It's you know, it's just you know you can, there's.

Speaker 1: 9:45

The results will be terrible.

Speaker 2: 9:46

You can turn your back on it.

Speaker 1: 9:48

It's just the results. It would be like the equivalent of me walking in the room and seeing my two year old with a jar of peanut butter and jelly and turning my back on that And then coming back. It would be a fricking disaster. I don't know if that makes any sense, But that is the result. No, So I couldn't agree with you more. But hopefully people you know get enough of the Digi, Digi verse. Well, and then the backlash is that they're out, You know.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Josh, but you and I have talked about this as well. I think that those of us who work in the outdoor space or who have access to opportunities in this space, it's important for us to tell stories about it, but ultimately, it's the goal of inspiring people to be curious about it, to envision themselves spending more time out there And any way that we can kind of have this like role of a role model or a mentor or just someone who inspires others to just imagine how they could place themselves in the outdoors or how they could experience it in a way that is just as gratifying, if not more so, than, say, a digital environment, for example And you know, as I'm understating, as I'm kind of pursuing this you know greater understanding of why nature makes us happy. One of the things about being outdoors is that you are constantly experiencing these moments in real time that are happening, that aren't going to happen again. It's not recorded, it's not planned, it's not manufactured, whether it's a Cooper's Hawk coming down and you know grabbing a titmouse out of a bush, or you know a cactus that's blooming, it's opening up in the morning after you know a monsoon, spring type event, or any of those things.

Speaker 2: 11:34

But I think, as you spend time outside your ability and it's for us to get up to, we always have this, this saying of like experiencing the preciousness of the moment right, just like really pausing to be present, not spending time thinking about your past, not anticipating the future. That's one of the things, and it's a very Zen, buddhist type thing being present, i think being outdoors in nature just facilitates that whole experience. You realize that these are unique moments that you're witnessing, not to be repeated. You're not going to be able to just plug it. You know, plug that log, log back in and pick up where you left off.

Speaker 2: 12:09

It happens when you're not there.

Speaker 1: 12:11

Yeah, that's definitely true. Thank you last year not this past season, but the season before was your really your freshman year into hunting? Is that correct, or was it the one right before that 2021-2022 season?

Speaker 2: 12:29

Yeah, the first time I'd ever gone hunting was with Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation's tour of the wild went to a dove hunt, which was for a bird watcher was definitely kind of a little bit of a pivot And my intention was to really kind of understand the whole constituency of the Swarovski optic brand patrons, if you will, and I knew bird was rather well. But yeah, i want to say it was like a year and a half ago It was probably. It was a year.

Speaker 2: 12:55

Yeah, and really for me, the inspired would made that jump easier for me. You know, it wasn't really just like a cold calculated. I just need to understand this from a business strategy perspective. I love food, i'm an avid cook, i'm an avid gardener, and so having a way where I could take an activity like hunting, i could spend time outdoors, you know, i've got, as I'm learning, more about hunting. there's lots of different approaches to it. right, and I have my own philosophies right In terms of hunting. you know sustainable, you know population dynamics and and what you know harvesting. you know species where it's not going to create a burden on populations and whatnot. It's it's. it's a way of hunting that's in harmony with nature.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Yeah being able to do that, where I can also have food come in, and, because it's for me, it's, you know, the trophy is the smile that I get when I serve someone a plate of food That has, you know, venice and and wild hog meatballs on it, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 14:04

It's, it's, it's that's that's.

Speaker 2: 14:05

That's my trophy.

Speaker 1: 14:06

So yeah, that is definitely it. We met at that. Dev Hunt Yep, i was very happy to have met you. I didn't know, i didn't know the friendship we would have with the way we would run into each other. Yeah, i was actually supposed to be your mentor, but I couldn't make it there in time, and so you wound up with my partner in the food truck, jesse.

Speaker 1: 14:24

I think as a mentor, which is that was a great experience, Probably a better mentor than me, especially for for cooking. We ran into each other multiple times and it kind of like serendipity sort of kept putting us into situations. It really did.

Speaker 2: 14:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:40

And it was cool to be able to watch your freshman year in the hunting and fishing space which we got to do together, and the second year we have not really hunted or fished together. This year We ran into each other in Colorado live stream but we really didn't get to fish together there. But you're now coming out of your sophomore year. You know of the hunting space And I'm assuming you got out and did a little bit of it here and there this past year.

Speaker 2: 15:05

So absolutely an awkward hunting teenager. But yeah, i went to a deer camp up in northern Wisconsin this year with a good friend of mine Just the two of us in this you know cabin, six miles south of the southern shore of Lake Superior, old, old cabin. You know feet of snow. You know doing some stocking, some tree stands sitting for deer And I got my first, my first deer day day three in.

Speaker 2: 15:30

That's cool, you know it was great, did all the butchering right on spot. It was so cool to hang the deer and you need to skin it and and you're just kind of working on my carcass as you're. And of course it's whenever 13 degrees outside, 15 degrees outside, so I'm not worried about any meat spoiling at all at this point. But once you get the skin off the carcass, my friend up there he's feeds the birds regularly. So all of the nut hatches and the chickadees were coming in to pick off the little fat blobs off the deer carcass And you could just see pretty much the whole the whole forest was embracing the harvest right there, maybe, except for the deer, of course, it wasn't quite.

Speaker 1: 16:08

The deer's part of the cycle because the deer really is definitely relying on the things that the rest of the forest was doing for it when it was living And it's its future generation will continue to rely on those things. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:20

But it was, it was great to just sort of pivot back into birdwatcher mode, where the hanging carcass is now my bird feeder And I just you know, would, would, would sit from the cabin window having some coffee and watching the birds come in, And I'm like I'm just going to be birdwatching for a little bit. It was really a cool thing.

Speaker 1: 16:35

I'm just needing to process this in my mind, that the hanging carcass was my bird feeder.

Speaker 2: 16:41

Yeah, Okay, i made that.

Speaker 1: 16:42

may go on a quote somewhere that that's living on for it. Yeah, one of the things that we talked about, and I remember sort of my first couple of years of being engaging the outdoors through a consumptive nature. You know, hunting, fishing, this thing that connects me with my food source, and I remember so much of it being food source driven and then it shifting to community driven because I was starting to make connections and friendships in that space To now, and this is something that we were talking about and that you alluded to earlier. You know the phenology of nature And we were visiting in the Ranger the other day and talking about, you know, the phenology of a sporting person. What does that look like?

Speaker 1: 17:32

And I want to get kind of your thoughts because I sort of, i think, introduced the idea to you and I don't know if we had talked about it before, i don't think we had talked about it before yesterday that I introduced the idea that, like, this is what my world looks like. You know, right now I'm out and I'm fishing, and I'm a fish throughout the, throughout the summer, because there's no real hunting that I participate during that time of the year. But when September 1 comes, otherwise known as Texas Christmas, the dove hunt happens and that marks the beginning of sort of the hunting cycle.

Speaker 1: 18:02

And now I'm fishing and forging the marks, the beginning of the hunting cycle and that type of harvest, and after dove hunting is, you know, teal hunting, which hopefully you're going to come do with me this year, and then after that is bow season for whitetail, and then somewhere in there, if you can sneak away, you can go and shoot some grouse somewhere. But it's this, this rhythm and this movement through the season and the intentionality of doing things, and I just kind of well, i want to get your perspective on hearing about that yesterday.

Speaker 2: 18:37

So phenology is something that I've always loved the idea of, especially. You know, when I first really heard someone expressing sort of the joy of phenology, it was when I was reading San Coney Almanac by Alda Leopold for the first time. That was my inspiration, right. I read that and I was like I want to be like this guy, you know, and one of the things I really want to do for you is introduce you to birdwatching, because it's a great way to fill in all of that, right, and you're talking about this non consumptive end of things.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Coming into hunting, as a birdwatcher And as restoration ecologists of the background and botany, it's almost like I can just fill my nature plate up all year round with whatever it is insects, birds, plants And I'm adding the hunting and fishing on right now.

Speaker 2: 19:30

So, you know, i would encourage, i really want to do more birdwatching with you, because I think you're going to completely get it And it's going to be one of those things when, if you don't have a pole in your hand or a shotgun in your hand, you know a pair of binoculars and a bird guide is something that will give you equal amounts of joy.

Speaker 2: 19:53

And, you know, and of course, one of the things that we really get to experience a lot with birdwatching is migration and all those cycles, which adds a whole new dimension to phenology the migration of all the neotropical birds that spend their time down in Central and South America And the movement of these species going from you know Argentina up to you know Northern Alaska, siberia, etc. It is just there's so much awe in it all And as soon as you open your eyes and take a look and then just take a little bit of time to understand, you can access that awe And it's like a drug right, just being awestruck. Our friend, austin Mann, who we're going to see tomorrow, just recently was in the Platte River seeing the Sandhill Cranes staging as our migration.

Speaker 2: 20:41

And it's.

Speaker 2: 20:42

It is North America's version of like the wildebeest kind of going over Africa, whereas there's this huge migration spectacle where the numbers of birds that you're seeing there and the sounds and the whole sensory perception just adds to it.

Speaker 2: 20:54

And that's just one spot in the calendar, You know so. So it's, it's great, And I think that in the hunting and fishing world you have kind of a structure that builds in seasons that you know, whether it's the Department of Natural Resources or a fishing game or what not, says this is a season for this, and they kind of build you out of. It's a starter kit for phenology with the seasons that they mark for you, And then you can fill in all the spaces with, you know, plants that are blooming, mushrooms that are coming up, birds that are migrating. You know, either you know north or south, And as someone who spends time outdoors, you can start filling all those seasons in more And so, and some of those things, like when it comes to birdwatching, I'm looking forward to helping you fill in your phenology calendar a little bit, a little bit, with a little bit more texture.

Speaker 2: 21:47

You know not that it lacks and not that you're not not that you're finding the current situation on satisfying, but let's just give you a little bit more.

Speaker 1: 21:54

You know it's interesting. My story in your story are you the. it's different into the spectrum because you came to the hunting and fishing space as an observer of nature. On my side of the world I recreated in nature first, so it was rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, skiing, hiking, mountain climbing.

Speaker 2: 22:23

I kind of categorize all that with like nature with a high heart rate.

Speaker 1: 22:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:28

And it is someone who's an avid cross country skier and trail running and a mountain biker. I still do those things, but boy, is it ever different than kind of something or something that we're doing.

Speaker 1: 22:38

It's not necessarily connected to nature at all. I mean because when I was out doing those things, it's cool, i'm going, you know, 40 miles per hour down a hill to get on a lift to go back up a hill. I am not paying attention to any of the trees species that I'm going past other than that's a don't hit it, that's another don't hit it.

Speaker 2: 22:58

That one over there? what do you call that? Don't hit it, i can make it like you know.

Speaker 1: 23:04

I mean and then all of a sudden, you know, when I got into land management and I got into the idea of taking care of a ranch, this ranch, specifically the Spokala Ranch that opened the door to, i guess I kind of was observing nature a little bit, but just micro, not like really the connectivity of nature, but like I was more. I was more getting in tune with the responsibility of land ownership and what that means.

Speaker 2: 23:32

A very targeted intention.

Speaker 1: 23:34

Yeah, and that forced me to look at connectivity. Then my practical application, though, turned out to be through hunting and fishing, because I'm a terrible gardener, but now it has moved me into really being receptive and open to the idea of bird watching and doing these things, because the reality is, i'm an awful shot, so I might as well just watch anyways, yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Well, plus, if you open up your palette to non-game species, there's a lot more colors and shapes that are introduced into it in terms of just the interesting kind of way that these creatures live and exist right.

Speaker 1: 24:15

Well, yeah, it gives you the context. I mean, that's like Laura was opened up to me because of deer hunting and because of whale hunting and because I want to have a deeper understanding and also a deeper respect for the species that I'm hunting in, going beyond just saying well, they make a great popper If you throw them on the grill. you just tear out the stuff and put a jalapeno in there and wrap it in some bacon throw it on the grill and you got yourself something fine.

Speaker 1: 24:46

I think in respecting the species, it's learning how and why it lives and what your place and your role is before you're out killing and cooking. It is to really just understand the species, Absolutely So. Migrations, Austin man, those sort of things. I think we should do this, we should chat more, We should do more of this, Because the thing is is I found I think we high spotted four or five topics We could go. Then we could spend an hour on each one of those, Just sort of visiting, but you've got to get to an airport.

Speaker 2: 25:29

Speaking of Austin man yeah, yeah we got some things, some other things going on this weekend.

Speaker 1: 25:34

Yeah, and this will air far after that, but I'm really excited to see El Observador.

Speaker 2: 25:40

Mm-hmm, yeah, Austin man or Austin El Dorado. I get the Austin's confused. You got Austin and Austin.

Speaker 1: 25:47

Austin and Austin and Austin, austin, man, austin El Dorado and. Austin, texas, with Natalie Ray and myself. So I mean of your Swarovski sort of ambassador, the outdoor ambassador we've got Tyler Sharp and Byron Pace as well.

Speaker 2: 26:00

So we've got quite the crew of some pretty passionate folks. What's you, natalie Byron? Austin, austin, and we're at six out of 10 ambassadors, so we've got quorum.

Speaker 1: 26:14

Yeah, we do have a quorum. Look out, look out Austin. we've got a quorum.

Speaker 2: 26:19

Well, Looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 26:21

Thanks, let's create this event.