Are you ready to take a walk on the wild side? Fasten your boots, grab your gear, and join me, Josh Crumpton, as I venture into the heart of the great outdoors with my guest, Basheer Benhalim, a passionate hunter and the Texas ambassador for Hunters of Color (HOC). We dig into the roots of hunting, explore the critical role of conservation, and share the excitement that fuels our outdoor passion.
Basheer brings a refreshing perspective to the hunting scene. We swap tales of our personal hunting adventures, like when Basheer got a treble hook embedded in his face or when I was mesmerized by ducks taking flight during waterfowling. But it's not all about the thrill of the hunt. We also discuss creating an inclusive hunting community and sharing experiences from our roles as mentors. We touch on the importance of preserving natural habitats and the proactive conservation efforts we can each adopt.
Looking toward the upcoming hunting season, Basheer is eager to use the HOC platform to foster hunting opportunities and connect with novice hunters. We candidly address the hurdles of promoting inclusive outdoor experiences and delve into the significance of land conservation. So, whether you're an old hand at hunting or just starting out, this episode is packed with insights.
Find Josh on Instagram or Twitter.
Presented by:
Spoke Hollow Outdoors - find them on Instagram or Facebook.
For more great BunkHaus content, check out:
BunkHausPodcast.com | Youtube | Instagram
Are you ready to take a walk on the wild side? Fasten your boots, grab your gear, and join me, Josh Crumpton, as I venture into the heart of the great outdoors with my guest, Basheer Benhalim, a passionate hunter and the Texas ambassador for Hunters of Color (HOC). We dig into the roots of hunting, explore the critical role of conservation, and share the excitement that fuels our outdoor passion.
Basheer brings a refreshing perspective to the hunting scene. We swap tales of our personal hunting adventures, like when Basheer got a treble hook embedded in his face or when I was mesmerized by ducks taking flight during waterfowling. But it's not all about the thrill of the hunt. We also discuss creating an inclusive hunting community and sharing experiences from our roles as mentors. We touch on the importance of preserving natural habitats and the proactive conservation efforts we can each adopt.
Looking toward the upcoming hunting season, Basheer is eager to use the HOC platform to foster hunting opportunities and connect with novice hunters. We candidly address the hurdles of promoting inclusive outdoor experiences and delve into the significance of land conservation. So, whether you're an old hand at hunting or just starting out, this episode is packed with insights.
Find Josh on Instagram or Twitter.
Presented by:
Spoke Hollow Outdoors - find them on Instagram or Facebook.
For more great BunkHaus content, check out:
BunkHausPodcast.com | Youtube | Instagram
see a ton of passion and I see people who are trying really hard to change the narrative of what a hunter looks like. Right, because that narrative exists. We just don't know about it. Right, and I had a friend of mine in Virginia who was very is it very passionate archer competition, archer right. You know most people think, oh, like black people don't hunt, right. And I remember him telling me about his like grandfathers and great-grandfathers hunt camp, right, and like I just didn't know right Or just ignorant, and it's like, yeah, man, there's this whole ecosystem that exists that we just don't know about because media isn't putting it out there.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Bunkhouse podcast broadcasting from the confluence of outdoor recreation and nature connectivity. I'm your host, josh Crumpton, founder of Spokalo Outdoors and the Los Ovahe Food Truck. My life as a rancher, guide, foodie and conservationist has provided the opportunity to meet some really great people, and the Bunkhouse is where we get to introduce them to you. In this episode, we introduce you to Bashir Ben Halim, a fellow Texan and avid wing shooter, the Texas ambassador for hunters of color, a good friend, husband, father and one smart dude. Bashir came out to visit Spokalo for an upland hunt. Afterward we hit the Bunkhouse and talked about mentorship, diversity in the hunting space, ducks, turkey, quail and other good stuff. With all that said, let's get this thing started. Let's jump in with you, just telling me a little bit about your background in the hunting space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I um, so I kind of have an interesting background in which my father's you know, father's you know first generation here in the U? S, my dad's from Libya, my mom's a sixth generation Texan from Williamson County. I tell people, like my sister did ancestrycom or 23 me, excuse me And we're 49% Irish and 49 and a half percent Libyan, right, so I kind of unique in that my mother's people only married other Irish people, My father's people only married other Libyan people until I came around. And so, yeah, man, so I grew up here in Texas, born in Texas, lived in California, new Mexico, back to Texas And when I was a teenager and then went to college here but started hunting when I was 14 with my cousins on my mom's family's ranch and just kind of ignited a passion, you know it's um that ranches in Texas.
Speaker 1:It's in Texas. Yeah, it's in the northwest corner of Williamson County on the Burnett County line. been in my mom's family since 1852. Wow, and I believe and I may have this wrong but we have the. I believe the oldest continuously lived in house in the county.
Speaker 1:Wow, So the house is still yep So someone still lives in that house to this day. So my mom's cousin does. her name's Maude Allen, so she lives there in the house. There's historic registry. It's a Texas century ranch, all that kind of good Texas history stuff, man. So I grew up going there. Now my dad was not my dad, my grandfather was a cattle rancher up until the drought in 52. And my mom was the first generation to move to town, so kind of.
Speaker 2:She left.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, my mom was born into that rock house and moved to Austin when she was four.
Speaker 2:So So your mom moved to town? What town?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they moved to Austin to rolling wood. Okay, my granddad built a house in rolling wood and that's where she grew up, so, yeah, so I'm kind of a central Texan at heart, certainly.
Speaker 2:So at 14, hunting with your dad.
Speaker 1:Hunting with my uncle, actually Actually my uncle and my aunt, all right. So my aunt, my aunt Ruth, took me hunting with her. my older cousins who hunted, i would say one of them still very passionate hunter, the rest kind of dropped off. But yeah, i went. you know, i had the opportunity. someone just took me as a kid hunting. I hunted, for I hunted for four years before I shot my first animal at 18, which was the year and a half old, you know, eight point buck.
Speaker 1:and just remember where I was when. I remember where I was, what time it was, by who I was with. I was with my cousin Sam, like I remember everything about that moment And just really for me was transformational, right, it just is one of those things that I'll never forget and certainly always appreciate. So that's how I got started hunting and and that of course not of course, but that blended into sort of exploring what this sort of experience is about, of being connected to the land I was telling you a little earlier when we were out hunting.
Speaker 1:you know, when I was a kid in California, i had the opportunity to spend a lot of time on one of the big ranches out there, tagging along with biologists and ranch hands and learning about cattle and working cattle and roundups and all that stuff. So I kind of had a maybe a little different experience in your average Texas kid but certainly was exposed to ranching and wildlife from a very young age And just you know, it's a wonder I didn't become a wildlife biologist. I've been. someone didn't tell me about it, but yeah, man, just really a love of wild places and wild things and wild creatures.
Speaker 2:You know I didn't hunt until much later in life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, but my passion came through fishing. Do you fish at all? We haven't talked about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So I fished. I grew up bass fishing with my buddies, just kind of your your standard suburban creeks and ponds, and you know, actually it's kind of funny. I was not a terribly good student and I was supposed to be kind of a longer story, but every day my buddy drew and I would go fishing. And then one day we decided to skip practice and go fishing instead, which sounded great, until I got a treble hook in my face.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, really Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i was 18 years old.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Got this like double treble hook in my face And I try and go to the hospital without you know insurance or anything and trying to get them to pull it out And they tell me absolutely not. So then I have to go out up to my mom that I not only skipped summer school because I was behind, but now had a fish hook in my face that needed to come out.
Speaker 2:Where was this in your face?
Speaker 1:It was like right, like here It was. You know, and I remember what she my mother's great mother, she insisted that we go into the best plastic surgeon and he laughed. He said oh, we're just going to yank it out, right? And so he does the whole push the hook through, cut off the barb, trick and out. It goes six hours later. But yeah, i was a pretty I'm a pretty avid fisherman And I got into fly fishing when I invited myself onto a spring break trip with some acquaintances And I went to broken bow, oklahoma and fish for trout when I was probably 20 or 21 years old And that's cool.
Speaker 2:I haven't fished there yet.
Speaker 1:You know broken bows in most places people bag on it because they're stalkers. But you know, my opinion is always this right, if it gets someone into something and ignites a passion, i think that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, i mean, i think you know whatever is your on ramp?
Speaker 2:Yeah, And it's nice to have. I was like to say it's nice to have those soft, easy on ramps. Yeah, And sometimes that's stalker fish and sometimes that's deer over feeders And sometimes that's preserve birds. But like that's your on ramp. That's a really good segue to talk about on ramps, because that seems to be something that you've got a full time job, you work a lot to talk to you, you're like always traveling to a lot of different places and going to some pretty cool places Yeah you have a very busy schedule, but you're passionate about this enough that you you have taken on this role as an ambassador with HOC for Texas to create these on ramps.
Speaker 2:You want to tell me about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think for me, i think about, you know, these barriers to entry, right, and I think about a lot about how fulfilling being outdoors is and pursuing a passion, and that really is what motivates me to say you know, i love these places. I, you know, i've fished all over the west of you know, six trial. I've been to 49 out of 50 states, right, and I'm missing Alaska. So we'll go to Alaska next year for a caribou hunt And the idea is to somehow piggyback that with a Harlequin duck hunt, right, so to say. I've gone full send into waterfowl is pretty serious, But yeah, man.
Speaker 1:I just, you know, i think the thing for me that why the outdoors feels so significant is how small it makes me feel, right, like I think, when we're hustling and bustling and in our jobs and you know, particularly like what I do today I get to make a lot of you know, quote unquote important decisions in a business, right, it's nice to feel like you're not in control, it's nice to just be present in the moment And I feel like there's a real therapy and healing in it, even if you, you know I've done a lot of.
Speaker 1:I tell people everybody needs to go to therapy and everybody should have a, have a, have a therapist and do counseling, right. But I think that there's a part of it for me that really just reminds me to be centered and to be present, and that's what I love about the outdoors And what I love about just sitting in a deer, blind, right, like I've hunted a lot of places now and everyone is a fulfilling experience if you're open to it. And so that's, for me, what really motivates me to show people this thing I love and to be around people who love it as well. You know it's it's it's it's wonderful to be around passionate people, and I think the outdoors is filled with a lot of passionate people, that's. You know, that's just the scene. I'm into, right, and I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah And well, and you know, we we talked about I want to circle back to HLC but things that you're passionate about.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We talked about snow geese. Yeah, we talked about waterfowling Yeah. Tell me about the passion that you have for that and how did that start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was with my dad in probably 2010, going from DC to Philadelphia and Went to the decoy carving museum in Arvita, grace, maryland, and if you've never been there, i think everyone should go because It's just incredible, right. So I really had awareness of, like you know, i think Duck Dynasty is pretty big. At that point It really wasn't my jam, but the waterfowling culture and the history of it really kind of intrigued me, and so I went to this museum with my dad and Just fell in love with this culture right of people going and being so committed to going and Pursuing something. And so I tried for I don't know, seven, eight, maybe ten years to get somebody to take me duck hunting right, to get into a crew. And I met a good friend And now a really good friend of mine, mike, who opened that door for me and he, you know, he runs an outfit in Virginia and an outfit in Iowa, and so I started Canada goose hunting and duck hunting with him and I remember I think it was my third or fourth, the first two or three hunts.
Speaker 1:We just absolutely got skunked And I remember I was running a little bit late to meet him in the field and I watched, i don't know, maybe three or four hundred Canada geese do it. I mean, just like all dumping to this field. I remember everyone was out in the layout and I didn't even know the layout was at that point, but everyone was in the layout and I'm just sitting on the sideline watching these birds dumping this in a soybean field And I just thought, oh my god, i have to do that.
Speaker 1:And I got really fortunate that I got in with this crew of guys who are just incredibly passionate waterfowlers and he created opportunity for me and, you know, really just embraced me and, you know, put a lot of hard work in, right. I think one of the things that Particularly really in all waterfowling, it's it's a labor of love, right, it's a lot of effort to go trudge out into a marsh and low decoys and and get dogs and all that kind of stuff, and so that's how I got into it and as part of that, i cook and help guide in a in a snow goose camp every spring in Iowa. And, yeah, man, i mean there's just, there's something that is just takes your breath away and I don't care how many times it happens That every time I see, just you know, hundreds of thousands of birds, do you know, scrapping out of living. Like I just sit there and just go like, oh my god, like this is incredible.
Speaker 1:Like we were picking up decoys About a week and a half ago and we watched a probably a ten thousand duck feed form. Oh my gosh, you know, i don't know, man, it gives me the giggles, right? yeah, in a way that deer hunting doesn't doesn't like. I like to deer hunt. But the waterfowling, just you know, the birds are beautiful and just seeing them make their living is just I don't know man, it's next level.
Speaker 2:I love hearing the sound of the wings.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and they're all a little different they are, they are, they are every bird's a little bit different.
Speaker 1:We had, um, i remember I mean this is like we had one of the first years I went out to Iowa. We were laying in a spread and we had, i think, three or four pin tails, buzzes at like no more than 10 feet. And I just remember just like.
Speaker 1:I just couldn't take it, man, i just giggled, you know, it was just like so good you know, it was just so good and and yeah, man, i just the the birds. You know they don't care about us, right, but they we got to care a lot about them and their habitat and you know the, the impact from agriculture And and habitat loss and and all those things right, are very, very present. I always tell people like you know, we care a lot about the Amazon, but I don't know why you care less about, you know, the, the, the wetland prairies of Houston, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, katie, right, yeah, yeah these are, you know, the animals that live there. Don't care any less about their habitat, right, and so that to me feels very present, and that's what kind of motivates me.
Speaker 2:Well, it's easier to take care of those places too. It is right there I mean it's, it's, it's a lower left than, say, the rainforest, which both things are important, incredibly important, right, it's like? work at home, work in your backyard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah that's.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool. The the teal a wad of teal for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like early season. Yeah, like I love dove hunting.
Speaker 2:I mean, i love dove hunting, but dove hunting, to me, is this communal thing. Yeah, it's about gathering, it's about friends, about family, it's it's kind of like a grilling opportunity. Yeah share a meal. And but teal season. When teal season opens and that first wad of teal, like Like, flies over the top of your blind Holy cow. It's phenomenal. So HOC, it's fast forward many years. Yeah, you're now you've already been. You're already an addicted waterfowler. Yeah, before you came to HOC.
Speaker 2:Yeah you'd, you'd shot deer, you know you. I'd say you're, you're an accomplished hunter.
Speaker 1:At this point, Yeah, i would say, you know I've gone through waves, right, like You know, i've shot all my tags, right, i've shot all my turkey tags, like you know. I've definitely, um, you know, and I don't like those things any less, right. But you know the the waterfowling for sure. And so I came to HOC really through a waterfowling opportunity. They were hosting a hunt at black duck revival in brinkly, arkansas. You know I was living in Virginia, so I drive every Thanksgiving and Christmas From Virginia through Arkansas back to Dallas to see my family. I just always looked up at the sky and just, you know, if you, if you haven't been to Arkansas or you haven't been to mississippian, seen the sky, it's, it's next level, right. And so they posted this like, hey, you know, apply to come hunt. And I was selected and Have the opportunity to go there and meet people and it really was just an incredible space to share.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the things for me was just feeling very calm in that space and not having your group of strangers right, there's people from all over the country. But coming together and sharing in that space and sharing and really teaching people, it was one of the first times that I realized that I had something to teach somebody Right, like what'd you teach? You know, it wasn't even. It was just like about Letting them know they'd shot the bird right, especially with new hunters right, they don't have a lot of confidence in their shot, but you know, when you, when you've shot for a while, you kind of know what birds you hit and what birds you don't. And so there was a, a guy who I knew very clearly he'd shot that geese and he was really doubting it. I just said, no, man, like I guarantee you, like that's your bird and you should be really proud of it, right?
Speaker 2:Look at you being a great mentor.
Speaker 1:I'm in the blind.
Speaker 2:I'm like I killed that one I killed that one. I killed that one. They're like josh, You didn't even shoot.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, i killed it anyways. That's my buddy Tyler, right? I was joking and like what? I'm sitting next to Tyler, i'm over 100 and Tyler's 100, but yeah, when he's not there, i'm shooting birds. That's funny. Yeah, just scream. I got it, it's mine. It's mine. That's the first advice I've ever found, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but so you're out there with Jonathan and Did you? at this point, you're not. You hadn't signed up to become the ambassador? No, not at all. Not at all right.
Speaker 1:So I had finally had the opportunity to move home to Texas and had just reached out to HOC and said, hey, you know, my family's got this ranch and I'd like to mentor some people, right.
Speaker 1:And they came back and said like, well, what do you think about being the ambassador? right, and I was like I don't know, you know, kind of like, and then I kind of slept on it and thought about it and talked with my wife about it And I said you know what, this is something I want to do. And you know just kind of realized that you know I had a unique space and perspective to offer. You know, coming out of a ranching family, you know you can talk to ranchers about ranching, right. And I realized that you know, sort of my perspective on life lent me pretty well to building relationships with people and showing them there's a commonality there and building really you know, the groundwork And that's really my goal with HOC is. You know I'll serve as ambassador for two years and my goal is to really lay the groundwork and build the relationships for ongoing programming.
Speaker 2:Tell me a little bit more about Hunters of Color and tell cause maybe not everybody knows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Hunters of Color is a organization that focuses on conservation and hunting for black, indigenous and people of color And it is not a not an organization that focuses exclusively on creating opportunities for X affinity group or Y affinity group. Right, it looks at really holistically, how do we create space and hold space for people to learn, with the express goal of keeping them hunting right, so then engaged in conservation, buying hunting licenses and participating in this community, right? And so, you know, for me it was very much a place where I felt comfortable and people I respected and you know Lydia and Jimmy, you know their buddy founded this right, and they're young guys or you're young people, and who were just passionate and I just was really drawn to that passion and said, hey man, how can I support right, like, i don't think HSC always gets it perfectly right, like any place. But I see a ton of passion and I see people who are trying really hard to change the narrative of what a hunter looks like. Right, because that narrative exists, we just don't know about it.
Speaker 1:Right, and I had a friend of mine in Virginia who was very isn't very passionate archer, competition archer, right, you know most people think, oh, like black people don't hunt, right.
Speaker 1:And I remember him telling me about his like grandfathers and great-grandfathers hunt camp, right, and like I just didn't know, right, i just ignorant, and it's like, yeah, man, there's this whole ecosystem that exists that we just don't know about because media isn't putting it out there. But we should talk about these stories and we should share these experiences and we should really, you know, i hate to say amplify, but we should just expose people to it, right. I think there's a lot of times where people have the perception that like, oh, this group's getting you know, undue exposure, right, and I get why people would think that. But I think that's a very sort of like first glance, right, i call it step one thinking right, like they sort of just go like, oh, this is my reaction, versus saying like hey, what else is there there? Like why do I think this way? Or why do I have that perception? Or is this even the right perception to hold?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think it's definitely. you know, i talked to a lot of people about it And I'm pretty open about talking about my idea. Well, I think all of our idea is to have a point in time where we don't need to have hunters of color, where we don't need to have brown folks fishing, where we don't need to have where these things. To think of it being any other way than just a diverse population would be weird, right.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the things, right. So I was talking with Jimmy about, i think, a podcast you did right Where you talked about like hey, what's the exit plan? right. And they were like I was talking about the podcast and they were like, man, we got a 20 year plan to be obsolete, right. I think that's like one of the things I feel like really energized by, Which is that it's not just this ongoing. You know, let's keep doing this. It's like no, let's have a plan for where we accomplish a goal. And I think that's the other part about HOC that I really respect and value is that we don't see ourselves as an organization that needs to exist in perpetuity, right, but really an organization that can build a strong community and that community then sustains Yeah well, and you have a problem that you wanna solve.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the goal is to solve the problem. To solve the problem, not create a revenue or a business or any of those things Correct yeah. That's where nonprofits, i think, sometimes can become businesses, and so it'll be really nice to see the nonprofit say you know what our job is, to put ourselves out of business.
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah, because this problem goes away And I don't know what that looks like. I would love to on another date, like I'd actually love to get Jimmy and Lydia and like, find out, like, what does this 20 year plan look like? Like, what's the roadmap So we can share it with everybody, so that we can start going down that roadmap?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, of how we normalize. Next February we're hopefully gonna do a big hunt out in West Texas.
Speaker 2:So let's do a podcast out there.
Speaker 1:We will, we will. Let's all attach that out, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be good, because that is the goal is, and one of the challenges that I see is I've talked to predominantly white males that have been in the industry, that have made a living in this industry, and there are funds that they used to have access to sponsorships, things that have evaporated. They're not there for them anymore. And it's always a tough conversation, because I've had these conversations where people say, well, that's not fair. Those funds that used to fund my project or my participation in marketing of these products is now gone because it's getting shuffled into an HOC or a brown folks fishing or a. And you know, i don't want to just look at them and say, tough shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, i mean That's incredibly unfair, because that's not fair, because I get it and I understand it And I'm like man. I understand how that's frustrating for you, that it feels like there's a loss of opportunity because you're not female or because you're not brown or because you're not. You know whatever it is. But there also needs to be an acknowledgement that these programs are important and that funds need to go in that direction.
Speaker 1:I just, you know, my big thing about it is that there's a lot of pressure on the hunting community. Right, we're not a huge community relative to the general population in the US and certainly globally, right, like we see. You know, if you look at European culture, the hunting model is very different and it's very exclusive, and so my response to people who see it shrinking is well, maybe the model changed, but why aren't you adapting? right, we can't insist that things stay the same, because the world doesn't say the same, it changes every day. And so, you know, while I wanna fully acknowledge the impact, what I wanna ask those people will say like hey, man, why don't you take your knowledge and energy And, instead of feeling frustrated, think about what you can participate in to move the dynamic forward? right, and that's always for me, whether it's in my professional work and my personal life.
Speaker 1:You know, i had an example a couple of weeks ago in my own life. My brother said this to me, right, i was feeling very frustrated about some work stuff and the point where I was just like I don't wanna do this anymore, like I'm done, like I don't need to do this, and he said like hey, man, i don't love my brother. He's a great guy. He said, like why don't you take that energy into organizing right And executing?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:And I slept on it and I woke up in the morning and I called my brother and I was like you seen, you're 100% right Like, instead of just sitting here becoming angrier and angrier and angrier, i could spend five or 10 or 20% of that same energy into organizing and executing. That's what I did, right, and so that, to me, is like where I wanna spend my time, which is, i think that the pie doesn't have to be small. I think it can be immense.
Speaker 1:I would love a movement in this country of you know, 80% of Americans who love hunting, who love conservation, and are beating the doors down in Washington every day saying not only are you not gonna sell public land, not only are you gonna like not fund conservation efforts right, both on private and public land, but we're gonna expand that right, because we believe this is so valuable to our country and our society that everyone should have access to it. And that's maybe a pipe dream, but that's ultimately where I see this going And that's why, for me, when we talk about bringing new people into the hunting world and into conservation, that's the output, that's the goal. Right Is that we end up having this really robust dynamic in which people feel passionate about public land and about private land, about conservation, about the salamanders in our creeks. We talk about megafauna a lot, but we have to be equally as passionate about the birds that live here and the lizards and the snakes and all these things, because that's what makes the world go around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i definitely resonate with the idea of we don't have to fight over the same pie. We could bake another pie, one with blackberries.
Speaker 1:No, that's not right We should make, they should not be separate pies, separate, but equal pies. They should be the same pies mixed fruit pies but two of them, yeah, or three of them, or three or four, or a whole buffet of pies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can make more pies, i mean, that's the thing is, we can create more public land. But I think in the industry it's not even the public land that's the issue. You've got the public, so you've got it within the hunting community. The public land pressure issue, which is real Yes, that is a real thing and that needs to get resolved Within the industry. It's a marketing dollars, competition issue.
Speaker 1:It is and in non-profit it's grant dollars Grant dollars for non-profits, marketing dollars for the industry.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, if we build more hunters and more anglers, that increases that revenue And there may be a short period where it shrinks, where certain people who got to get paid to do certain projects for brands and companies are not gonna get to do those things.
Speaker 1:Well, i see it similar to social media right. When we looked at traditional media right, like in the early 2000s, you turned on outdoor TV or real tree TV and that was the outdoor industry right, of course you had your big conventions and stuff, and then today you still have all that programming on TV And you have the programming on social media right, and so like yeah, i'm sure, like to me It's not a dissimilar dynamic. When we shifted the one, the model shifted from, like, traditional media to social media right, i'm sure if you were a guy who just had his TV show, that that pie shrunk for you.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and you got bitter and you got super bitter about, like I was talking earlier about, like Heartland bow hunter, right like in their style of filming, right Like they revolutionized outdoor TV And now everybody kind of has a similar style. That's progressed from that. But the pie changes, right Like the dynamic changes, and what I see is just a lag, like it's just a curve, and in my hope is that people feel energized by opportunities versus seeing like a scarcity mindset. Yeah, because I don't see it that way, right like I just see like when there's relative scarcity in the market, that means there's abundant opportunity in demand and demand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's I like the way you put it Reorganize, use your energies to reorganize and move forward. Yeah rather than complaining about the state of affairs, what do you got planned for HOC this coming, this coming year?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we're gonna do some some like intro to hunting opportunities. You know that'll be like kind of just afternoon Conversations and talk with people about what hunting is about and what the model is here in Texas. We've got, I think, four hunts planned in the state, So we're kind of like the other thing I was like I'm very passionate about Texas, right. I was really happy to move home after 11 years and, and you know I tell people that Probably my two favorite places are the piney woods in West Texas, right, What your places that don't get a ton of love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So so that part of what we're gonna do is gonna showcase Some of those, some of those terrains and those geographies. So we'll do a hunt, we'll do two deer hunts, i think we're gonna do an on dad hunt and then, of course, you gotta do a waterfowl hunt because I love waterfowlin. So we'll do one down on the coast. But yeah, that's the plan for right now. We may do some additional hog hunts as time allows, but really these are just gonna be opportunities that folks can can put their name in the hat for and you know, hopefully hold space together and learn from one another, because I know always have a ton to learn from people. That's the plan. So we'll start hunting in in October and we'll hunt through February.
Speaker 2:Hopefully you come out here for some upland.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm hoping we'll throw some upland in the mix, cuz you know I love the birds.
Speaker 2:Dinosaurs, right? Yeah, the birds are fun and the dogs are fun, yeah, i think the dog work is.
Speaker 1:That's the other part about waterfowl, and that I love is watching the dogs. Right, dogs, man, man, when the dogs do you know three, four hundred up, you know three, four hundred yard blind retrieve, you know, and the dog just locks up, you're like, oh my god, how do you do that?
Speaker 2:Like yeah.
Speaker 1:I couldn't do that. Yeah, I couldn't do that at all.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, that's pretty cool. What are you most excited about? like this coming year, like if I do ask you one thing like this one. Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think the thing I'm most excited about Is just the number of people who are energized to support This mission right. Just I think that I've been very fortunate and connected with a ton of People who are just giving right, giving of their time, giving of their knowledge, and seeing that come into reality through these events is for me Really really meaningful. And, and you know, if one person, i think we'll probably reach an audience of maybe 30 or 40 new hunters Right, and if one person decides to continue to hunt, that's a major win for me.
Speaker 2:Yes, a huge win. It's a huge win. Well, i'm providing this space for people to come into. It's one of the things I put, one of the oh You, so we always talk about our drinks that we're having, by the way.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, this is delicious. We normally do this earlier in this first we normally do this earlier in the show but I've just been sipped. I'm like almost shout out to howler brothers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's drinking out of this howler brothers glass here, but normally My man whiskey tea. Yeah, drink slinger the distiller, extraordinary Mr, all hands out and about the town guy comes and makes cocktail for us.
Speaker 1:But okay.
Speaker 2:I happen to be on a booze cleanse right now, yeah, which I thought meant you drink nothing but booze turns out, that's not what a booze It's not, it's not boozing and and you don't. I don't drink, no drink and so we made a mocktail and May I put together I'm not even gonna put together a video, because this is so easy to make. This is laquaw Okay. Cranberry razz, yeah, like with about an ounce of pomegranate juice in it. Okay, some rosemary and a lemon slice. It's delicious.
Speaker 2:I'm into it If you did like drink. This would probably be delicious with vodka. Okay, Yeah so, and if I was not on a cleanse, maybe you would have some it do we have a vodka sponsor yet. No, well, all hands should make like you could do this with an all-hands cocktail. You could definitely like. Just take one of their cocktails, add a little pomegranate to it and throw like a little bit of a spider-man.
Speaker 1:We're done. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'd be good to go be great post, post, hunt, drink sort of in this Spring where it's a little warmer. Yeah so maybe turkey hunting may post turkey hunting in the spring Yeah can't wait for Turkey.
Speaker 1:What bird you gonna chase I?
Speaker 2:Don't know where. All I'm gonna hunt birds. I'm definitely gonna shoot one here on the ranch, because I've been hearing them in there. I like, like and every time they do it I'm like oh man, where are you? So I was thinking about Running. I was thinking about running the like Maybe Pennsylvania, maybe Nebraska, i Don't. I don't know yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah like I have to like post actually this Podcast. I'm gonna sit down this evening and I'm gonna kind of trying to draw out the rest of my plan, but it's really kind of like a this is an impulse thing. I'm very impulsive. This is an impulse thing like I heard turkey sounding off on this ranch And I was like man, i can't shoot any of these birds till April 1st. I need to get in my car.
Speaker 1:How long you've been turkey hunting?
Speaker 2:I've only been turkey hunting about six years. Okay, I've shot three turkeys in that time and I try every year. I'm a terrible turkey hunter. Yeah but, but I'm kind of doing it myself.
Speaker 1:Are you a box call guy, a diaphragm guy?
Speaker 2:I'm, i've box called, but I've moved to a diaphragm. Okay so, and this year I think I'm gonna try to do everything with a diet diaphragm.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm not a no decoy guy yet, but that's where I'd like to get. I like to get to a place where, like decoys are not part of the mix.
Speaker 1:You're gonna become a purist and only use like you're gonna like voice call.
Speaker 2:You know, I've got a friend of mine, this guy, cameron Weddington. He came out and shot a turkey here when I was his Texas turkeys. He's going for the.
Speaker 1:I can't remember what it's called.
Speaker 2:It's the slam, but it's not the slam, it's the state slam. It's like one turkey and yes, he's.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, Okay Yeah yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think he's on like 20 something.
Speaker 1:They do. The 49s is gonna pick up the one at Hawaii and all that. Yeah, that's his plan. Yeah, that's his plan.
Speaker 2:So, He came here to shoot his turk, his bird and watching him turkey hunt It was, it was art I mean art. The guy mouth calls just like Yeah, he's like yeah, i brought this turkey wing with me so that I can like mimic a fly down you know, like he, he'll like It's really cool, it's beautiful art, and so I'm kind of going at it with, like, just calling people who know more than me.
Speaker 2:you know, i know enough to be dangerous, but not going out with a lot of mentors doing a lot of it on my own, which is Gonna take me 10 times longer to get good at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if at all, but I thought I was a great turkey honor So I had a ton of turkeys on my family's ranch and yeah, shot a number of birds, yeah, and then moved to Virginia and didn't shoot a bird for seven years.
Speaker 2:So you were just in a place of.
Speaker 1:But the birds are very. You know, eastern's a very different bird than a Rio and reels are tough. You know, i think reels are kind of easy man, they talk a lot. Yeah, i hate to tell you this one, but yeah, the consensus is that reels are pretty killable birds this the reels on this ranch, like They go really far away from where you're at.
Speaker 2:Like they I mean like they move a whole lot. Today, that's. What I've noticed is like the same birds are moving all over the place.
Speaker 1:They're not hanging out? Are you a running gun guy? Are you a calling sick? No, I'm running gun guy. Yeah, try and try calling and sitting.
Speaker 2:I'm way too impatient for for calling, so this is why. This is why I upland bird hunt.
Speaker 1:Yes, because I like to move.
Speaker 2:I like to move. You know it makes me an Okay dear hunter and I probably would be a better turkey hunter if I was better at like just staying up. I just can't do it, so how I?
Speaker 1:let me ask you this question. This is tactics, but how are you sitting after each call sequence?
Speaker 2:So I'm probably gonna sit in an area for like an hour and a half.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm there for a while. Yeah, I'm probably like a four hour guy like four, just sit there. Yeah, that bird's gonna circle. They're gonna come around, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna try that, i'm gonna try your four hour method and I'll let you know how it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm gonna do it on opening day here. So I had this one bird Here this is my first year of turkey hunting as one bird and I did sit for a long time on this bird This is like maybe three hours They should sit. This bird was roosted Across the big field that we hunted today. Okay, so if you're in that big field, south is this direction in it? This bird was on the west side of the field, so I set up on the east side of the field and tried to call that bird over to me like over and over and over again and That, turkey, we come off the roost.
Speaker 2:I'd hear him gobble gobble, maybe kind of straddling. I could hear him working the tree line and he's never came across.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So frustrated.
Speaker 2:But I decided that I wasn't gonna go over there and try to shoot the bird off the roost. I was gonna try to get this bird to come across to me. And so I did that for like this bird and I did this for like maybe like a week and a half, like the last week and a half of season, like we did this dance And I just, like you know, i'd be there for like the morning and then I'd be like fuck it and I'd leave. So the last day, same dance. Turkey comes off the roost. he's just blowing up, blowing up. can't get him to come across the field to me. So I'm like you know what I'm done. This was the last day of the season.
Speaker 2:Drive back to the house, and this was my first turkey, actually. And so I drive back to the house. I'm just like ready to put my gun up. I'm like, and I'm getting ready to walk in the house And all of a sudden I hear this bird oh shit, there's a bird. So I like run out and I run down to an oak tree And I sit on this oak tree, i hit the box collar and like I sat and I waited and like 30 minutes later this bird came out.
Speaker 2:It was a nice. It was probably 11 inch beard you know You're like, yeah, like 20, i think it was 22 pound bird, big bird, and I shot him in the face.
Speaker 2:And like and it was cool, And it was the last day. So two days later I'm driving the ranger underneath the roost where that bird was that I'd been calling to, and that bird ran across right in front of the ranger, like 15 feet in front of the ranger, and it was a triple bearded frickin' Tom. This, this beard, like big, long dragon, three beards, runs right across the front of my ranger And that was the bird that had been alluding you. Giving me the middle fan Yeah man Like the whole thing.
Speaker 1:He's got a scratch out of living.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he did, and I never saw that bird again.
Speaker 1:No, I, I'm a big scout guy, right? So if I see a bird in the field, for three days I'm gonna just go sit that field and ride that bird out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, i think it's.
Speaker 1:I think there's many tactics with Turkey Hanging's or with elk hunting or anything right, and everybody's got a style. My style is to scout them hard. I'm not the world's best caller, i'm terrible at diaphragms. I'm pretty good on a slate over glass, you know. But yeah man, i love turkeys. I don't know, i gotta just get back into it now that I'm home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love eating turkeys.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I love eating turkeys, like Turkey actually, turkey heart is probably one of my favorite things. Like the heart of the Turkey is just delicious. Maybe we should shoot some turkeys this year, let's do it, man, let's shoot some turkeys.
Speaker 1:That'd be pretty fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i definitely you can come over here and try to shoot one of these wily birds. We used to have a lot more birds here. That flood that happened Memorial Day flood, like six years ago. Seven years ago We used to have all those big cypress trees on the river That was the roost area So we lost all the roost. but the flood happened in the middle of the night and we lost the turkeys with the roost. It really hammered the population. I used to see a couple hundred birds.
Speaker 1:It's all about habitat man.
Speaker 2:It is all about habitat. So there's no more roost and no more turkeys, but I think we're kind of regenerating. Yeah, last year was a pretty bad year. We only saw a couple of poults around here.
Speaker 1:You've been on a hard drought too, And it's. You know, I always think about that, right, Like we think it's hot but we go inside an AC These birds got to find water.
Speaker 2:They got no AC. They got no AC.
Speaker 1:The best they can do is find a mesquite tree to lie under. You know, it's definitely. I don't know, man, i think that's what I love about you know, when we talked earlier about hunting and just the animals, it's just, i'm just perplexed by it. You know, i'm just like, how does this ant like? I remember, you know, we had that hard freeze earlier this year and it was like 17 degrees and it took I don't know why, but I thought it was a great day to take my six and four year old out deer hunting right, Oh man Yeah man, i got these kids to be tough, right.
Speaker 1:Um, i got two buddy heaters going and hot chocolate and all that trying to have a good time. But it's like man, i'm uncomfortable but I don't live out here Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can go home.
Speaker 1:You get to go home, i get to go home and take a nice hot shower and drink some coffee. But yeah, man, i just, i don't know These animals, just I just love them, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too, and it's one way right, i get it.
Speaker 1:It gets one way, but it's just. Uh, it's one of those things that I just can't shake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i love that, i love, i love watching them as much as I do. I mean, that's the hunting them right, the hunting is watching them and observing them And I really think that that's the best, that's the best part of the whole thing, and I think it's one of the things that people who don't hunt or haven't considered hunting much, it's one of the things they don't understand is how much the observing the animal is the really fun part. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:It's a to me. I always tell people, like, at this point in my hunting, the heart, you know, it's not harvesting, it's killing animals. Right, the killing of the animals, and that is is not the most joyous part to me, it's really. I always feel like, you know, whether it's a bird or it's a deer or whatever it is like, there's always a moment of sadness for me, right, and a reflection of, like the sentient being is no longer here because of my action. Right, and there's a gravity to that.
Speaker 1:But the making of the meat and of, like, preparing something for people and having that moment of connection, right, like I, you know, shout out to Virginia. Right, virginia has one of the most underrated fisheries in the country, in my opinion. Right, everything you can chase on the Texas coast you can chase in Virginia, right, so you're chasing maybe not snook, right, but you're chasing, you know, redfish and specks and flounders, right, and these and these tidal marshes, and you know I'd go catch redfish and you know, bring it home and show my kids, right, make a meal with them and have them see, like, there's this thing that I went and plucked out of its habitat And now we're going to have this incredible meal and eat it together and leave the head on right.
Speaker 2:Let them see the eyes and have that connection And for me it's just important, right?
Speaker 1:I want to. you know I was raised in a way that was very mindful and I really want to be. You know, continue that, that intention that my parents said, and bring that forward into my kids.
Speaker 2:Such a connection, it's the connections, connection to nature. It's a connection to nature that we as humanity, i think, can so easily lose, so easily sever that tie.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like you know, we talk about like othering people, right? but I feel like so much we sort of like other animals, right? We've said like, oh, they're this thing that's separate from us or that we're somehow devoid of them, right? Like bugs are a great example, like I'm working on bugs with my kids, or like they're not big. on bugs I get it.
Speaker 1:But I'm like you know, hey, this thing's incredible right And this thing has, you know, just as much right to exist here as you do And you're really showing them an appreciation for something that they may find off-putting, right? You know, we were talking, we were hunting a little bit about like snow geese and kind of one of the things with water fowlings a lot of just like you know, in terms of regulation, you really have to just remove the breasts, right, but there are these, you know, even the feet, right, like, if you look at like old I learned all this from other people but like old school stock recipes used a lot of chicken feet, right And you make these like just these incredibly velvety, delicious stocks, right.
Speaker 1:And so it's like and all the collagen and everything right. So it's like you know, learning, and that's actually something I learned on that HOC hunt, right, it was like throw the feed in, right, like I never threw feed in anything, but yeah, using that whole animal and just appreciating every aspect of it as best you can. It was really kind of fun. This year I was walking out of a field and found like a single feather, right. You know, it was like I don't know man. I just put it in and carried it with me for a while. You know cause it's like I don't know what bird this came from. It came from one of the million birds that were traversing the terrain that we were in. But like I got to keep one piece of it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really, that's really neat when you get to carry a piece like a, like a feather from a bird.
Speaker 1:And like maybe it's overly sentimental, but like I don't think there's anything wrong with being a little sentimental.
Speaker 2:No, i think. I think that's something that happens. The more time you spend outdoors, i think you get a little more reflective. I think it's almost even it's just reflective. You become reflective like, and symbols and things that you carry with you become something that you meditate on. That brings you back to a reflection of the time you spent outdoors, and I'm excited to be on as many of the things with you this fall as I can be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:To help other people get that connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think that's the thing for me that really energizes me. It's just, you know it may not be for you, right, and that's why they make chocolate and vanilla, but it's for me and I want to tell you about it, right? So you know, absolutely, i really hope that. You know, i know that we're going to do some, some hunts together And you know, i hope people just see your passion and the team that you have working with you to like, see that all of this exists to help build connection, right, like you know, i love I'm not big on on dear taxidermy, right, but I like European mounts and stuff, but the duck mounts for me are. I just want people to see how beautiful that duck is, right, because, like, you're never going to be three feet away from a wild pin tail, all right, like it's just not going to happen, right Yeah?
Speaker 1:But you know, seeing that, seeing that mount, or seeing that duck, you know someone's, someone's killed and it's in their, in their sling right or in their, in their game tote, like there's a connection there. You see how beautiful nature is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really.
Speaker 1:You know, there's an irony there, right, like you killed this thing to say it looks so beautiful. Yeah, but like there's also, like there's so much more there.
Speaker 2:You know, what's interesting about that is I was very against taxidermy Before I became a hunter and even in my early phases of hunting I was not into taxidermy. I wouldn't say I'm into taxidermy now, but I think where I finally did the switch turned for me was, like man, i love going to, like the Museum of Natural History And I love it because there's these, you're next to these taxidermy animals. I mean like you get to look at them up close and the birds that I hunt you get to consume the meat. you can taxidermy a pelt off of them And that becomes like your feather. This thing, that's a reflection. you get to look at it. I don't need to taxidermy everything.
Speaker 1:I shoot, you know but a few of them, the things that are beautiful, especially the docs, especially, yeah, it's so cool.
Speaker 1:They're just cool man. I just nerd out on them all the time Like, but yeah, i just. You know, i think the thing for me that I really want people to know is that this space, like the outdoors, doesn't you don't have to do it the way I'm doing it, right, and I realize that at times I do it in a pretty intense way. Like I don't know a lot of guys that have a full time job and kids who go like sitting a cornfield right Or make these like big trips out to North Dakota or wherever else I'm going to go chase us with my buddies. But, like you know, it doesn't have to look that way for you to enjoy it. Right, it could just look like you. I remember like this kind of side.
Speaker 1:But when COVID was happening, a friend of my wife posted on on social media she was going outside for a walk right. In my mind, like going outside for a walk is like going on a trail, right, And what she meant was literally walking on this like path around basically a stormwater tank in her neighborhood right, and I was like dismissive of it at first And then I thought like man, how arrogant are you that you're like judging her experience of connection right, like if, for her, walking and seeing you know the potato chip ducks and her local pond connects her and re-energizes her, then that's amazing and incredible. You should be supportive of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you support it. Bring that individual to the edge of it, their comfort zone, and try to leave some breadcrumbs for them to follow those breadcrumbs past Correct, so that the next thing they know they find themselves deep in the woods appreciating nature in a fully immersive way. And you're a hundred percent right that being dismissive of it is not the way to get people there.
Speaker 1:It's not, you know, and I think a lot of times, particularly when we get, you know, into the folks that are, i would say, beyond avid, right, there's an opera, there's sometimes a culture where we dismiss newcomers, right, or we say like, oh, they don't have the good gear or they're shooting this or whatever it is. And it's like, you know, you were that person once, like I remember when I went and bought my first package rifle from a Dick's Sporting Good Store because it was 300 bucks and it was on sale, right, because it's what I could afford. And I think that's one of the things for me that you know we're doing. You know, in Patagonia is not in the hunting space, right, they're very clearly not in the hunting space, but we've been talking with them about.
Speaker 1:You know, we've participated in some events at their store in Austin, which is like the gear you have can get you out there, right, so it doesn't need to be, you know, sitka or Duck Camp or whatever, and those are great quality brands, right, it's like, if you're going to get serious about it, like I encourage you to go check them out. But you know this jacket that I'm wearing, the jacket you're wearing. You know the hiking shoes that you have, like stuff that folks already have. The message should be like Hey, that works Right. Like yeah, because I think one of the things like the barrier to entry you know it is gear right. So like we should, as as hunters and then people who care about conservation, think about what gear can I share, right, like when I upgrade my stuff right, what can I share with somebody? Maybe it's not give it to them right, but it's like bring it along on a hunt.
Speaker 2:We've got boxes of stuff that I have upgraded. From that I just keep and like it's there, and when I'm on a hunt and somebody needs something, oh hey, yeah, i've got this, and you know what A lot of times, if they want to keep it after the hunt.
Speaker 1:I'm good with it.
Speaker 2:Right, you know, hopefully they they, you know get obsessed and spend all their money on it, like I do.
Speaker 1:And yeah, i mean you know, you know it's it's yeah, i mean, that's my thing right, it's like what you already have can work and maybe it doesn't work for you going and sitting in a duck blind in 10 degree weather. Yeah, right. And that's part of I think too, is that we don't need to bring people into this for them to suffer their way through it. Right, we need to bring people into this and, as a mentor and as someone teaching them, do it in a way that they enjoy it, right. So, like you know, i call myself out for taking my girls out. like pretty miserable weather, right, but like they're bundled up in their ski gear right, they're bundled up and warm. and like, yeah, we didn't see a single deer, right. But like, were they warm? Were they drinking hot chocolate? Were they having a good time? and like, guess what? Next time they see me geared up and headed out the door, they're asking to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, well, and what's cool about that is that you acknowledge the weather, you acknowledge that the thing you were asking them to do might be outside of their comfort zone and you took the time to make the space inviting for them And then you took full responsibility of their experience, from the moment it started to the time that it ended, and I think that's very much a parallel and a good mentorship program and, in a good, in a good, fostering anybody into the outdoors.
Speaker 1:And that's ultimately like what my goal is right, Which is to show people a model that creates space for people to learn right, And it doesn't have to look like me putting you in a deer blind and telling you to tough it out.
Speaker 2:Right, in fact, it's the opposite. Be back for you, i'll be back for you.
Speaker 1:I'll be back for you in six hours and hope you enjoy it Right. Like you know, if I got to carry, you know, two extra propane tanks and don't shoot a button box three, mr Buddy heaters, you know like I want to do that because at the end of the day, for me the biggest compliment for when I take somebody out hunting is them asking me to go again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1:Like it's just like that's what I get out of. It is like knowing that, like I've planted a seed or help sow a seed in somebody where they get excited about this. So they're like you know, there was this meme a while back, but it's like I saw that deer right there. I saw a deer there a week ago. You know, the guy's like telling his wife about it. Right, It's like that's the level of like passion that I have, right, And not everyone's going to get to that point, but I hope they start, you know Well on that note.
Speaker 2:Hey, thank you for being here. I want to thank you for going on a hunt with me. I want to tell you that I would like to go with you again. I appreciate the feelings mutual.
Speaker 1:Thanks for showing me the ranch man I have a real passion for, for ranches and Texas, You know, particularly as we see all the development pressure and subdivision after subdivision going up, there's a real is a real personal thing for me to see ranches stay intact. I get why they don't, but you know families and people. they're committed to keeping the land. the land is deeply meaningful for me, man. So thanks for having me out.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man.