Ever wondered how fishing, mentorship, and inclusion intertwine within the great outdoors? Get ready to uncover this synergy in the latest episode of The BunkHaus Podcast as we pull one out of the vault. We have dug up an episode recorded in 2021 on a Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation outing for The Sporting Diversity Podcast. We venture into the heartening journey of the Stewards of the Wild Mentored Fishing Program, a transformative initiative Dr. Matt Hughes and Adam Comer designed to educate and connect people to the outdoors. A welcomed side effect of the program was that it broke barriers and fostered inclusivity. Sharing their personal stories, Amanda and Kami give us a glimpse into the profound impact of this program.
Listen as seasoned anglers Davin and Kameron share their passion and expertise. The duo's dedication to mentoring Amanda and Kami is genuinely inspiring. And it doesn't end there. They also reinforce the importance of shared values in building genuine connections. As we delve deeper, we learn about the power of knowledge in shattering stereotypes and the idea of nature as a universal binder. Prepare for an episode with diverse perspectives, insightful conversations, and heart. This episode isn't just about fishing — it is about acceptance, inclusivity, and the beauty of the great outdoors.
Find Josh on Instagram or Twitter.
Presented by:
Spoke Hollow Outdoors - find them on Instagram or Facebook.
For more great BunkHaus content, check out:
BunkHausPodcast.com | Youtube | Instagram
Ever wondered how fishing, mentorship, and inclusion intertwine within the great outdoors? Get ready to uncover this synergy in the latest episode of The BunkHaus Podcast as we pull one out of the vault. We have dug up an episode recorded in 2021 on a Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation outing for The Sporting Diversity Podcast. We venture into the heartening journey of the Stewards of the Wild Mentored Fishing Program, a transformative initiative Dr. Matt Hughes and Adam Comer designed to educate and connect people to the outdoors. A welcomed side effect of the program was that it broke barriers and fostered inclusivity. Sharing their personal stories, Amanda and Kami give us a glimpse into the profound impact of this program.
Listen as seasoned anglers Davin and Kameron share their passion and expertise. The duo's dedication to mentoring Amanda and Kami is genuinely inspiring. And it doesn't end there. They also reinforce the importance of shared values in building genuine connections. As we delve deeper, we learn about the power of knowledge in shattering stereotypes and the idea of nature as a universal binder. Prepare for an episode with diverse perspectives, insightful conversations, and heart. This episode isn't just about fishing — it is about acceptance, inclusivity, and the beauty of the great outdoors.
Find Josh on Instagram or Twitter.
Presented by:
Spoke Hollow Outdoors - find them on Instagram or Facebook.
For more great BunkHaus content, check out:
BunkHausPodcast.com | Youtube | Instagram
Matthew, Josh, how's going? It's good. Where have you been? Yeah, I left early this morning. I came down to the coast real fast to chase some bull reds and get one more day of fishing in before we fire it up and get into dove season. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm not going to be back in time for the bunkhouse podcast this week.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what were you thinking?
Speaker 1:You remember that sporting diversity podcast we did down in the Gulf a few years back when we went to Powderhorn Ranch and helped to test pilot the stewards of the wild mentored fishing program? You remember that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was awesome. We had the really good conversation with the canvie and Amanda, David and Cat Cameron, I think. Is that right? Yeah, that's correct. I know it's been a while, but if you can track that down, maybe knock the dust off it. Let's give it one from the vault.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll queue it up.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I'm going to get back to fishing. I'll see you before dove opener.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Bunkhouse podcast broadcasting from the confluence of outdoor recreation and nature connectivity. I'm your host, Josh Crumpton, founder of Spokalo Outdoors and the Los Ovahe Food Truck. My life as a rancher, guide, foodie and conservationist has provided the opportunity to meet some really great people, and the Bunkhouse is where we get to introduce them to you. We're sitting outside a white stucco building on the Texas coast. We're at Powderhorn Ranch, the future site of a Texas Parks and Wildlife Coastal Park. The salt hangs in the air and the sound of waves are lapping against a seawall not too far away. It's nighttime and people are milling about our camp. We've just finished dinner and as we sit next to the kitchen, the sounds of people coming and going can be heard. They're mostly swapping stories of fishing.
Speaker 3:This camp is made up of members from the stewards of the wild, which is the young professionals organization of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation. The Sporting Diversity podcast is here to observe and record the stewards pilot mentored fishing program. This program is the brainchild of Dr Matt Hughes and Adam Comer. I've been fortunate enough to help foster this program along with them, but ultimately this is their baby. Matt is the engagement manager for Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation and the leader of the stewards of the wild, which means that he is responsible for helping to foster the next generation of Texan conservationists. Adam Comer works for Texas Parks and Wildlife as an aquatic education specialist in Central Texas. Both of these guys are dedicated to recruitment through education and very good at what they do, so it's no surprise that the program was running smoothly.
Speaker 3:At the beginning of this two-day program, six mentees were paired with six mentors to experience saltwater fishing for the first time via wading, kayaking and boat. The camp meals are designed to showcase seafood and to give the act of fishing applicable context. Comer brings the knowledge of aquatic education and a very systematic, well thought-out approach to building foundational skills. Each of the mentors has been trained to successfully teach by previously attending an angler education course, most likely taught by Comer, and receiving a state certification. Hughes brings his academic background and pairs it with real-world knowledge to create a few key moments of guided conversation designed to facilitate an impactful group reflection that really drives home the significance of wild places and instills a sense of responsibility to protect them.
Speaker 3:Several of our own Spokalo outfitters were on hand to be mentors this weekend. Each one of the mentor mentee stories was impactful. But today we're going to tell the story of Kami and Amanda Hartman, who were paired with Davin Topol and Cameron Dutigue to explore the world of saltwater angling. Amanda and Kami come from very different backgrounds. Like many other married couples, they're searching for new ways to connect with each other through shared experiences, which brings them to the outdoors. For Amanda, it's a return to her youth.
Speaker 4:My name is Amanda. I'm the program coordinator for aquatic facilities down in South Austin. My family would go camping every summer. My dad was an avid fisherman. He did fly fishing and casting. We mostly fished in lakes and rivers. In New Mexico he would take me. He taught my sister and I how to fish. I got bored pretty easily and would rather be in the cabin reading than fishing, so I didn't fish a whole bunch, but I did learn how to do it.
Speaker 3:For Cammy, this experience is new and flies in the face of her upbringing. Learning to fish, engaging with the outdoors through sport, is something that women in her home country of Chile were discouraged from doing. For Cammy, this weekend was a liberating and empowering experience.
Speaker 5:My name is Cammy, short for Camila. I'm a mobility specialist at the company called Restore Hyperlonicine Cryotherapy. I told Matt that I was never allowed to do anything growing up that required the use of like tools or weapons. I'm from Chile and women aren't necessarily allowed to do much other than just pursue education and career that would involve the use of a woman. Essentially, it's a very macho oriented country still so when I told him that I never grew up doing too much other than going out to nature, but always accompanied by my uncles or my brothers I could never be by myself. I really never learned how to do a lot of things by myself. He signed us up for the stewards of the wild and he was like you're going to learn how to be in nature by yourself, without men having to guide you all the time. That was really exciting.
Speaker 3:The thing about being a member of an underrepresented group. When approaching the outdoor sports of hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, rock climbing, skiing or whatever it is that you want to be welcome. You want to feel comfortable but at the same time, not be singled out or stereotyped. You just want to be seen as a person, accepted and included. Historically, hunting and fishing marketing specifically, has featured white males and been mostly positioned to speak to that demographic. I asked Kami and Amanda what coming to the sport of fishing meant to them. Did they feel intimidated or hesitant? Amanda enlightened me.
Speaker 4:We went into Cabela's to look at some stuff that we would need for this trip Look at some waders, try and find a knife for Kami and it was very intimidating. We didn't really feel comfortable asking for help and it was definitely not a comfortable situation. But we were able to communicate with Matt and he was able to get us everything that we needed. So I was definitely a little apprehensive coming into this trip. Just based on the experience and the vibes that we had gotten in Cabela's. I was worried that it was going to be a little bit like that, but it has been the complete opposite. So I was kind of worried for nothing.
Speaker 3:Volunteering to be a mentor or mentee in the outdoors often pairs individuals that would not have otherwise met and spent time together. The draw is that the mentee wants to acquire knowledge and the mentor has the desire to share. Oftentimes, before the parties meet, there are butterflies in the stomach. There is that unease of the unknown. I'm going to spend a day or a weekend or whatever with this person. What if we don't get along? What if my mentee was dragged by a spouse or friend and doesn't really want to learn? What if my mentor is bad at teaching?
Speaker 3:The fear of not being appreciated, valued or connecting is always there, but 99.9% of the time everything works out great. The outdoors is the equalizer, and the passion to learn and the desire to share creates an instant bond. After hearing about the shopping experience, I was interested to hear Amanda's perception of meeting her mentor, a good friend of mine, davin Topol. Davin is a bearded, tall, very woodsman appearing white male and also one of the nicest, most accepting, non-judgmental people you'll ever meet. Amanda recounts how they first met in passing, at the camp.
Speaker 4:I unofficially met Davin last night. When we came in, matt just kind of turned around. I was like, oh, this is your mentor. And I was like, okay, hi, and then we kind of both went our separate ways. And I was worried a little bit at first because when Cammy and I were here talking, we kind of talked about that vibe that we got off at Cabela. It's about just it being this very macho, like white man, only kind of, and I was like I hope that he's not like that and you are just the complete opposite of that.
Speaker 4:As soon as we met up this morning, I was just or I guess not even this morning last night when we were doing our practice casting it was just immediately just very comfortable and you just have a very welcoming personality about you and I was very relieved that it wasn't what I was fearing, even though it's been 20 years since I've held a fishing rod. He acknowledged that I did have some very limited experience and he was like do you remember how to do? And I was like kind of, I think. And he was like okay, well, let me show you real quick. And I was like absolutely. And he's like, okay, this is the three things that you do and then you toss it and I was like that's exactly how I remember and he was like, okay, great, here you go. He didn't focus on my, you know, 20 year gap between the last time that I actually cast a fishing rod and I really appreciated that.
Speaker 3:I knew from talking to Daven that he was really looking forward to being a mentor. He had been guiding for some years now and had a background in fishing. But mentorship is so much more instructional. The objective is to create a drive and a passion for a new sport. Here's what he had to say about meeting Amanda.
Speaker 2:My name is Daven Topol. I am a guide at Spokalo Outfitters on the weekends. My full-time job is head distiller over at Real Spirit Stilling sister company to Real Ale Brewing. And, yeah, I got the amazing opportunity to mentor some people, meet a lot of great people and do something that I love, and just it's very gratifying. I really appreciate somebody who has a passion and a drive towards something that I have a passion and drive towards. When I met Amanda and she told me that she had fished when she was 12. And that's when a lot of us, you know somebody, feels like it's that's the time, like you're old enough, you know what we need to go fishing and whether you pursue that past that is up to you. So when Amanda told me that she had some experience at 12, that's an age where that muscle memory is still going to be there, and I knew that this is something that we can build on and we did and it really didn't take much.
Speaker 3:Davin has a passion for family and he recently started taking his kids out on the raft and showing them how to fish.
Speaker 2:I have a fairly young family. I know my wife for 15 years, but I have a three and a six year old and since my six year old was born like just been dying, I want to teach him to fly fish. I want them to love fly fishing. My wife and I met on the river. We were very outdoors, focused people. So finally, my daughter's three now and being able to bring my whole family out on the raft opens up a whole new chapter in our lives that I've been really looking forward to.
Speaker 3:As a mentor, just as a person wanting to connect with other people, you're looking for that place where you can identify with each other. It is in these shared values that we find acceptance. We bring ourselves closer by looking at our similarities rather than our differences. When family was definitely a shared value for Davin and Amanda.
Speaker 4:Cammy and I grew up very differently. I mean, she grew up in another country, speaking a different language, and I really enjoy sharing my family traditions with her. She had never had a live Christmas tree before in my family. I mean, we used to go cut down our own Christmas trees up in the mountains in Albuquerque. So that was one thing. One big thing that I was really excited to share with her was having a real Christmas tree in the house, and I think that fishing and camping might be the next family tradition that I share with her and that we start doing together, which I think is really neat. And then the other piece of that is you know, she is my best friend. I love spending every second with her and having another activity that we can do together on the weekends. It just makes it that much better to be able to spend time with her, and I'm looking forward to having more fishing trips. It's a good new adventure to put in our playbook.
Speaker 3:While Amanda was on the water reconnecting with the skills from her youth, Cammy was having her own experience with her mentor, Cameron Deteague. Cameron is the perfect mentor for Cammy. She comes from a strong hunting and angling background, is fiercely independent and highly proficient in the outdoors.
Speaker 6:I am Cameron Deteague and I am a mentor here for the fishing program. Out of Powderhorn Ranch, I guide at Spokalo Outfitters and I've been working closely with Stewards of the Wild and Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation for the past four years. What got me involved in the program is sharing what I'm passionate about in the outdoors with other people and getting them more in touch with nature and what makes it special and how it can really benefit your mental health and physical health by going out and it's just a couple hours outdoors to enjoy the weather. I grew up fishing, grew up hunting and just want to be able to share that with others and preserve that heritage. I have to say, when I first met you and Amanda, both I was super pleased. I was like oh these, you know, these girls are so stoked, they're so ready to get out and fish and I'm really glad that you felt comfortable coming with me, a total stranger, and spending a lot of instructional time in the outdoors.
Speaker 6:I know that can be intimidating, trying anything new and unfamiliar, so I really appreciate you being so open-minded and so when I met you, I automatically knew that, based on your outgoing personality and like your spontaneity and just like willingness to participate and even like the small instructional activities before we actually went fishing at all. It was really refreshing Even before we got out on the water. Cammy and I were just having casual conversation While we were, you know, doing our knot tying exercise and casting practice, and she let me know that she was born and raised in Chile and gave me a little bit of her background in relation to the outdoors and how it was a very male dominant in her early years and how she was excited to challenge those roles that she was so used to seeing. That was really a meaningful moment to be a part of someone challenging the status quo, and I felt honored to be a part of your journey, because that's really why we do. What we do is meeting people like you that want to engage in what we love so much.
Speaker 3:There was a brief lull in the conversation, so we sat listening to the waves in the distance, marked by the occasional sound from sea birds or fellow campers gathering in the nearby kitchen. I asked Cammy what meeting her mentor was like.
Speaker 5:It's like meeting a college professor for the first time as a freshman, understanding that, yes, I am well away from my depth here and I have an expert to guide me. And the word guide for me growing up has always been a restricting term, because where I grew up, guided meant stay in the car. Guided meant you weren't allowed to go. Guided meant I needed my hand held, and so this is really enlightening and wonderful to find out that guided meant no, I could teach you and you could do it. That was wonderful.
Speaker 5:I'm always going to be weary just because of who I am. I am gay, and so I just have to take that reality and sometimes, as a protective cover, I'm going to assume somebody's going to be uncomfortable with it. I would go above and beyond making sure people know I'm gay, but know that I'm also normal. This is you're not going to catch it or you're not going to like I'm going to go out of my way to make you feel uncomfortable because I know who I am and you didn't care. And that's when I felt super comfortable trying the things you asked me to try, which was like do this instead of that, or like calm, be more, like you never told me to be more calm, but you told me, like, it's okay, you can do it again, and you always told me I was doing a good job, which was awesome.
Speaker 3:Don't worry, relax, you can always do it again. Removing the fear of failure, knowing that there's always another cast, and learning to trust yourself, learning to listen to the nature that surrounds us. We believe that facilitating the transition from self-doubt of the unknown to confidence in face of the unknown is a pivotal moment in mentoring a sporting person. The ability to question the unknown and have confidence in your own anecdotal evidence is one of the keys to success in the outdoors, because the sporting world is often as much or more art than it is science.
Speaker 5:We were walking back because we had not caught anything and it was getting about time to where she sensed I was getting a little tired and I felt that it was like, yeah, you're right, like mentally I'm kind of exhausted. Physically I could keep going, but mentally I was kind of tired and we were walking back and there were times where I continued to cast and continued to cast and it felt like a ballpoint pen without any ink. You're trying to write on paper, you have nothing to write with. And as we neared the entry point where the truck was, all of a sudden it felt like my pen had ink. But it was immediate, like I needed to do it now. Whatever I needed to write down needed to happen now. I communicated that and she's like, yeah, go with it.
Speaker 6:And I did, and we caught something and it was wonderful it had a beautiful flounder and I was like, see, I touched it, like and you know, getting in touch with that that's always a neat feeling and I told her. I was like I may be superstitious but I say, if you feel it like, act on it. And the worst case scenario you know it didn't happen that time but you still feel it like that change in the environment, like the same thing with hunting when the woods wake up in the morning, that first bird that chirps and then the whole forest comes alive and you can almost feel the vibrations and you know something's going to happen, something you've been for.
Speaker 3:As a member of an underrepresented group, I know that coming into the hunting and fishing world can be extra intimidating. As I said earlier, we want to feel accepted, included, represented, without being labeled, singled out and stereotyped. I know it's a bit of a balancing act, but it's like being a cool kid you can't acknowledge that you're cool because that's not cool, so let's just all go fishing and be cool. But seriously, if someone who is a minority or part of an underrepresented group wants to share their deep and personal feelings, they'll let you know. Here are some of Cammie's feelings on the impulse to be guarded, the fear of stereotypes and the revelation that there are safe spaces in the outdoors.
Speaker 5:Our issue is how are people going to interact with us if they're uncomfortable with us? And that's where the over-realization happens. That's where the I'm sorry before I need to say I'm sorry happens. That's where I need to explain myself please don't feel uncomfortable around me happens you didn't care because I'm just a person, and that's wonderful and that feels normal, it feels fantastic. I don't have to wear a piece of jewelry that some of us sometimes feel like. We have to wear a rainbow pin just to let people know.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we're gay, and it's like those little pigeonhole areas. It turns a lot of people off to it, especially like gay let's say gay men. You don't want to always associate a gay man with an effeminate male. Some of them are very much like just a dude who just happens to like another dude. So, like my thing was oh, my goodness. Now I'm doing things that I've always wanted to do. But what am I going to be perceived as?
Speaker 5:There are women in this field who are like extremely established, strong women, but a lot of the times the perception of a lesbian couple doing a lot of male-oriented activities. They're pigeonholed, and so then you go into like subcategories of the LGBTQ community and a lot of us don't identify with that. Just because we like being outdoors is, I mean, we're a particular type of lesbian and clearly like it doesn't matter now, because I'm still myself and I still feel very much the lesbian that I am, without being pigeonholed into a specific category. It's just now I know how to put bait on my hook and put it on a fishing rod and it's something super tiny, but it means the world to me.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about Amanda and Cammie's experience at Cabela's. I was reflecting on my early encounters with outdoor retailers where I didn't see myself represented. I was also thinking about how my comfort level has shifted over time and, though I would like to see more representation, I no longer feel uncomfortable being inside of Cabela's, or any other retailer for that matter. I asked the Hartmans if they had a different perspective after coming to Powderhorn and gaining knowledge. I received two different answers.
Speaker 4:I think I'll feel a little bit more comfortable because I'll know a little bit more about what I'm doing and what I'm looking for. Another part of it was we were in there and there were 50 different choices for waiters and we had no idea what to look for. But now that I know I have a better understanding about the things that we used during this trip and have a better understanding of how the fishing world works, I think it'll be a better experience next time.
Speaker 5:That's how I feel, like I will continue to have that perception, just because of the nature of Cabela's and sort of what's promoted in their catalogs or who they promote or how their equipment is promoted. You don't see black individuals, you don't see lesbians. You don't see biracial individuals wearing equipment, showing off equipment, learning, even fishing or hanging out camping. If you're misrepresented by a company like this, it's not to say anything bad about them, it's just like we're not in there. How do we see ourselves in your store?
Speaker 3:Both of these responses are, of course, valid and highlight some of the common barriers for entry encountered by all novices and some specific to minority groups. Cameron Dutigue swiveled her Chama chair towards the microphone to share her experience as a well-versed outdoors woman.
Speaker 6:Regardless of your background or race, orientation, nature means the same thing and it may make you feel different as an individual, but we're all seeking something fulfilling in nature and I think that brings us all together. Whether it be peace or solitude or adventure, challenge, trying something new, we're all searching for something and humanity as a whole is pulled outdoors. When you're stressed, you need a breath of fresh air, you walk outside and I think that's something that binds us all together. Having that conversation about diversity in the outdoors embodies that as a whole, that if we take our differences away and look at how we look at the outdoors, we are all linked together and I think we should be able to all enjoy that together.
Speaker 6:But as a woman, I think oftentimes you may be approached as one week due to, like you said, the Cabela's instance it being tailored to middle-age Caucasian male right. So when you walk into an outdoor store, an archery shop or a fly shop, it's either are you shopping for your husband Can I help you find something or are you sure you don't need help, which I'm always appreciative of someone offering me their assistance, and I know it's all in. They mean well. But as a woman, inclusion for me means not questioning my ability. You know generations of gender roles has embedded that into people and I think that, although they do mean well that's going to be, the next step is realizing that women are just as capable and we just have different strengths, as men have different strengths and weaknesses.
Speaker 3:Gender stereotypes. So here is Cammy, the new angler. In her upbringing in her home country, fishing is something that she would have felt discouraged from pursuing. Knowledge is power. Cammy now has the knowledge and the confidence to get out there and fish, to get into nature as an outdoors woman. That power is hers.
Speaker 5:It doesn't feel like taboo, although, like where I'm from, it would be these activities where you fish as for fun and in Chile you do it as part of your job. We still have fish markets, but men are primarily fishermen, and so that's where the idea of doing a lot of these activities comes from or stemming from. Male can only do this Because in Chile, women who are or who do something as an artisan mostly work with crafts. They're not allowed to do anything that would require killing something for food. That's associated as a man's job.
Speaker 5:Today I fished for fish for an activity, just to fish, just to see if I could, and then I can. But one, I'm not a man, and two, it wasn't for a job, it was for activity's sake, an enjoyable thing. And if you do fish in Chile and you do it for fun, it's because you're a tourist, not because you're part of the country. The country uses fishing as a means of the economy. There's like these areas in Austin where you can go kayaking, but you can also fish, and I've always seen people do it, people with a life skill that I don't have and just like fishing and being very successful and producing a fish. Now I feel like I can be a part of that community. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4:For sleeping in a tent, for catching and handling fish and baiting your own hook, and I was worried that you weren't going to like it.
Speaker 5:And it's like that's the and I was afraid you were having that misconception, because I grew up not only not doing that, not being allowed to do that, and granted, there are some things because I never had the experience to do like stick my finger in a fish's mouth. I didn't want to do it but I did it not my favorite, but this is the most amazing experience I ever had outside. I wasn't guided, but I didn't have to have my hand held and I didn't have to be told no, you can't do that. I can do it all now, everything, but like I don't have to ask permission and it's lovely and I guess that's what nature is, it's you don't have to ask permission or have to have permission to be in nature.
Speaker 3:You don't have to ask permission or have permission to be in nature. You can come to nature as you are. The outdoors are for everyone. Hunting is for everyone. Fishing is for everyone. There is not a typical hunter or angler. We are a group of many backgrounds, ethnicities, cultures, ideologies, sexual orientations, gender identities and beliefs. We gather seasonally to participate in our sports, in the field, on the stream, at sea, on mountain and in the valley. We move as a group. We are the sporting community and there is room for you Interested. Just look around. There will be a group to welcome you. If you are 21 to 45 and live in Texas, join the Stewards of the Wild. If that's not a fit, try your local Trout Unlimited or BHA chapter no local chapters. You can always call Spokalo Outfitters or reach out to them on Instagram or Facebook at Spokalo Outfitters. I promise that no matter where you live, someone like Davin or Cameron will get you connected to the uplands or flyrod.