Lean In To Learn Ep. 5 - Resilience: A Critical Piece for Building Adaptability at Work with guest Vered Lerner

Join Jessica Soodeen as she discusses Resilience: A Critical Piece for Building Adaptability at Work with guest Vered Lerner on Lean In To Learn.

In partnership with Workplace Education Manitoba and thank our funder the Government of Canada Skills for Success Program. 

Joignez-vous à Jessica Soodeen qui discute de la résilience: un élément essentiel pour développer l’adaptabilité au travail avec son invitée  Vered Lerner sur Lean In To Learn.

On tiens à reconnaître Éducation en milieu de travail Manitoba et à remercier notre bailleur de fonds, le programme Compétences pour réussir du gouvernement du Canada.

Transcript

Host Welcome & Series Context

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Lean In to Learn, your Skills for Success podcast. I'm Jessica Sabine, spokesperson for Workplace Connections, Master Certified Relational Skills Practitioner, and advocate of Skills for Success at work. Lean in to Learn is a series focused on insightful approaches and forward-thinking topics related to relational skills, which many of us refer to as soft skills. I'd like to acknowledge Workplace Education Manitoba and thank our funder, the Government of Canada's Skills for Success program. I, a carefully curated subject matter expert, will introduce you to an array of tools, resources, and personal journeys that will educate and empower to solve people-related issues at work as well as build individual skills for success. So settle in and open up your hearts and minds as we lean in to learn. Welcome to Lean In to Learn, your skills for success podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Soudin, certified master level relational skills practitioner. And today we'll be discussing resilience, a critical piece of building adaptability at work, with our guest, Varid Learner. Verid Learner is an international multi-award-winning entrepreneur, strategist, consultant, coach, and author, and influential thought leader, the founder of BizDance and VLC, Verid Learner Coaching. She's a sought-after speaker and mentor whose impact spans from small businesses to corporate boardrooms to her innovative youth academy, truly making a global difference. Very unique approach to creative solutions is backed by powerful credentials, including an honorary doctorate in human resource management and dual certification as a Skills for Success workplace practitioner and relational skills trainer. Welcome, welcome, Vered.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I'm great. How are you doing?

Hobbies That Shape Resilience

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I'm doing fabulous. This is so awesome. I'm excited. So I have a question for you. I like to touch off with the human side of things. So before we dive in, if I was to dig around and try to find out what Vered's all about, what would be something that you could tell me about, you know, a hobby or something of yours?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

I have a lot of hobbies. And this one is not so secret, but not everybody knows. So I am a singer or songwriter, and I think music for me is one of those things that just taps into the soul and is a big outlet, especially for when we do need to build a resilience and when we do need to be adaptable. And for me, that's a really great way to number one, get my story out. I mean, it's really great to speak about what we're going through through music, through lyrics, and to share it with others that can relate and that we can help them through their particular situation as well. So when I'm not working, which you know, I'm always working, but when I'm not, and you can find me at the studio or, you know, jamming with other artists and musicians, and that's my thing.

Defining Resilience And Adaptability

SPEAKER_00 3:15

That's so cool, especially studio life. That sounds fun. And jamming is is always good, good creativeness that keeps our juices going, right? Exactly. Okay, so let's dive into this. So uh so your topic is is an amazing one, resilience. And it is a critical piece for building adaptability at work. It really is. So let's go to the basics and how would you define resilience in the context of workplace adaptability? And why do you think it's so foundational?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

So, resilience is not only something that's important as a foundational piece, but it's necessary, it's a must. If we can't be resilient, we're never going to be able to bounce back from situations. So it's something that, you know, we have to develop, right? We we tell people, you know, you need to get a thicker skin, you need to understand, you need to build on your emotional, you know, and social intelligence and things like that. But I think resilience is a way to be able to cope with whatever it is that we're going through. And then the adaptability piece is really the behavior that follows that. So you can't have adaptability without having the resilience and vice versa, right? So for me, it's an integrated piece that has to come from within, but it can also be learned and it's something that we can continue to develop. And again, it comes with experience and of course the right supports.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

That's really interesting. So tell me a bit about those supports.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Well, the supports have to come from the workplace itself. So obviously, if you have people that you're working with, if you have it, it depends what it is that we're talking about, but sometimes it has to come from your downline, and sometimes it has to come from superiors, sometimes it has to come from the executive team or the leadership team. And sometimes it has to come from supports that you're getting elsewhere outside of the organization because it's not always available to you, right? So whether it is that you have to get a mentor or you have to maybe get some more training in an area to build your confidence and things like that. Maybe it's talking to, I don't know, a social worker or other mental health professional. It all depends on the reason for the resilience building and then how to cope with it and be adaptable.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

So reflecting on ourselves, because I can think of a handful of moments myself in my life where resiliency was was not an option. It's like what you said at the very beginning. This is not just a nice-to-have skill, it's it's necessary. So reflecting upon a time, maybe either professional or a personal setback, what are some of the tools that you use to apply to bounce back?

Tools To Bounce Back: Why And How

SPEAKER_02 5:55

For me, I look at the why. For that's the basic thing is why did this happen? You know, how can I then fix it? If I don't know the why, I can't know the how, and vice versa. So those two together are really, you know, integrated. And I look at the overall theme of what's going on. So the whole scenario, because maybe it's an isolated thing, or maybe it's a repetitive thing. Like we really have to look at patterns. If somebody finds themselves in a situation over and over and over again, I mean, the common denominator could be them. And so we have to adjust ourselves, right? And see what's going on that's causing these things to happen. And sometimes it's external, it has nothing to do with you. So again, looking at the entire situation and then problem solving, right? What do I need to do to fix this? The why, the how, that all comes together.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Nice. Yeah, those are great tools. And I know even through WEM, we've got great self-assessment tools and the app and things like that. So do you use do you use specific tools within your own coaching practice as well? So you go through and dig through the why, but to really make people, you know, feel that supportive and feel that when things are gonna get gritty, I'm gonna be able to get through it, you know?

Coaching Tools, Structure, And Ownership

SPEAKER_02 7:11

So yeah, I mean, there are all sorts of exercises that we can go through. There's journaling as well that people can do. There's, you know, talking to others, really measuring, you know, the outcomes if they tried certain things and they didn't work. So what can we do to tweak it and get a different result? I think routines are really important. So, you know, breaking habits, creating new habits and sticking to it. Obviously, the systems, it all comes down to structure. Like I'm a big systems person. I think taking ownership over what's going on, you know, not passing the buck and saying, okay, you know, what can I do to make this better for myself and for others?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Nice. And where do you see that leaders really buy into that? This this importance of the resilience. When do you see that light bulb go on? Leaders in terms of clients that you've worked with, leaders in corporations, let's say, or teams.

What Leaders Look For In Resilience

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yeah, so I mean, there are different types of leaders, not every leader is equal. I I see leaders in in a position, say, of executive functioning of the company, meaning like the C-suite. Those leaders are see things differently than maybe team leaders or leaders that are self-led, right? So sometimes you have somebody who will step up to the plate, project manager, or someone who's going to take over and say, okay, now I'm going to be responsible for making sure this thing happens, right? That's sort of a lower level leadership versus a leader that's that's overseeing an entire corporation or organization. Yeah. And that type of leadership, when they look at resilience, they're looking at someone who's consistent. They're looking at someone who can bounce back without with minimal damage. That's really what they're looking for. That I think that light bulb moment comes when they can identify that this person is number one, natural at being able to bounce back, can lead others, can influence others, and can be an example and create future leaders. I think that to me is what I've seen across the board. If they can take other people and make them leaders as well, that's a really great thing. Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

So this this is really good when you're talking about the different levels of leadership, individual contributors, how resilience looks that. So, in some of your clients and some of your work, have you seen people from like the bottom up being champions for resilience building? And what did that look like?

Bottom‑Up Champions And Self‑Advocacy

Cornerstones: Goals, Learning, Systems

SPEAKER_02 9:46

100%. I've seen people go from entry-level positions to finding themselves in maybe challenging situations because they could be the new kid on the block. And so they're not necessarily set up for success because you have some people who are in leadership positions who are not management material. And I think that's where the biggest hurdle is when we do the type of work that we do is to train them on how to be better leaders and managers to be able to accommodate for different types of personalities, different skill sets, and things like that. I think managers who are afraid to create future leaders and future managers are not effective managers, right? Because they don't want people to surpass them. But that's really their job. If you're a good manager and a good leader, you're gonna create those other people who are gonna be powerhouses as well. And if they move on and surpass you, that means you're doing a great job, right? So recognizing our limitations, recognizing our role within, you know, society, within a company, within a business. You know, if if you wanted to be a bigger leader or a more influential person, then strive for that. But don't stop other people when they want to do something, right? And don't take the credit for what they're doing, don't take away the light that they're trying to shine. So that's where I see the the the more, you know, lower level leaders, the self-leadership, is when they're able to overcome that, when they're able to not be stifled. So, you know, when someone keeps putting their thumb down on you and trying to keep you where you are, is rising up and and advocating for yourself and saying, okay, well, I'm I'm meant for more. And I thought that this position was going to give me that growth potential. Or if someone keeps stealing your thunder to be able to speak up and say, but that was my idea or this was my contribution, and not cause, not do it in a way where it's causing toxicity in the workplace, but doing it from a place of advocacy, a place of you know progression, a place of posity. It's always about how you do, not always what you say, but how you say it, right? So I think for me, that's that's the biggest thing is um is the people in the lower level positions who are able to then rise. And through that, they are influencing others, they're leading by example, they're gaining a following, building a reputation, and that leads to their confidence and their resilience to encounter other things as they climb that corporate ladder. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, I think I agree with that. That whole idea of advocacy and positivity, I think that is also like some of those cornerstones of how to be resilient as well, no?

SPEAKER_02 12:26

100%.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah. So what would you say would be some more cornerstones for resiliency? Like this advocacy, the positivity, because really, how are you supposed to do, how are you supposed to be adaptable, like you had said at the beginning, and be able to deal with change if you don't have that?

SPEAKER_02 12:43

It's something that comes with experience, like I said. So maybe setting goals, figuring out what's going on, looking at what's working and what's not, right? Every situation is going to be different, but figuring out where you are in a particular situation and saying, okay, I'm here now. How can I get to that next level? Or what can I do to go back and fix it? Sometimes we have to go back and we have to, you know, break it down so that we can rebuild it. And that's okay too. It's there's nothing wrong with saying this was a mistake or I did something wrong or this didn't work, or you know, because every time something doesn't work out, instead of looking at it as a failure, we see that it's a learning opportunity, as we all know, but it's not just a cliche, it's a real thing. It is a learning opportunity, and we have to not just learn from it, but we have to grow from it. So we have to take that to the next level. And what are we going to do? What are the next steps to put that into place so that we don't encounter this again and we can stop it from happening to someone else as well?

Teaching Adaptability: Practice And Fit

SPEAKER_00 13:45

I love that. It's like mistake proofing and really putting like I can see the systems thinking in there, right? Yeah. Yeah. During our certifications, we weren't in the same cohort, but we did the same certifications. And what sort of tools do you leverage when it comes to teaching about adaptability in the workplace?

Visualization, Risk Reviews, Simulations

SPEAKER_02 14:11

So many different tools. It depends on the individual, you know. So we go back, we do all of these mental exercises, we do uh personal development, we work in teams to role play. We look at what can happen in a certain thing. So maybe having something happen and but putting it in a controlled environment, obviously, right? So you're looking at just ways of dealing with situations that you might have happening or you might not have happening, but you're anticipating for them. So it's always about forward thinking for me. And not every tool is going to work for every person. So it's about trying it on, making sure it's the right fit. And then once something works, adding on to it. So it's incremental successes, incremental learning, right? It looks different for every single person. There are so many tools that we use within our within that context, like to start naming them. I think, you know, I don't want to give people the wrong impression because not everything's going to work for everyone. But there are many, many, many different tools that are available. And even outside of this, if somebody is encountering a situation and they don't have someone to talk to, they don't have a mentor, they don't have a coach, they don't have, you know, a boss that's so supportive, they can go online, they can look at, they can try to help themselves, right? Nobody can help you if you don't want to help yourself. So that's a starting point.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful thing. And I really love the visualization exercises in order to prepare your brain for adaptability, playing things forward, that forward thinking, the what-ifs, like diving into the what-ifs. In my corporate life, we used to have design reviews and it would all be identifying risks. So we were trying to think of the craziest things that could go wrong and address them. And when we think of that and putting that to relational skills, that's a whole different way when you're getting into emotions and human behavior visualization.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

I think simulations are really important as well. So, you know, maybe putting a few people in a room and saying, okay, this is what's going on now. How are you going to handle it? And then maybe switching roles and seeing how it feels. So, you know, never judge a person until you're in their shoes type of thing. And seeing, okay, well, I reacted like this, but now that I'm in that position, I'm not really so comfortable with someone looking at me like that, judging me or talking to me that way. So, what can I do differently in case this ever happens, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

So really looking at even our own triggers and adapting how we're how we're looking at situations.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Right.

Hybrid Work And Healthy AI Use

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a great way. Role playing is such a it can be really powerful depending on those situations that you choose.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, yeah. It can be a lot of fun and it can be daunting, and not everyone is an extrovert. But I think you know, when we're out there in the workforce, it's important to understand that we are around other people. We can't just stay behind a screen. We can't lock ourselves into a room or into a cubby or whatever. We need to be able to deal with other people. We need to be able to look at things from different angles. We need to be able to assess and reassess. And that's that whole resilience piece and the adaptability piece. Okay, now where do I shift? Where do I go? What do I do? Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah. Very nice. Yeah. And I know that even through your own coaching business, you have certain systems that you like to apply. So the elements of that I imagine relate to the resilience and the changing work environment that we're experiencing now. Like we had all the hybrid stuff happen. We had, well, I mean, first it was everyone at home during COVID, and then we had all of the hybrid afterwards. And now really looking forward, I think it's always going to be hybrid. So, how does that look for you when you're training adaptability?

Authenticity, Ownership, And Credibility

Closing And How To Reach Vered

SPEAKER_02 18:11

So, for me, whether you're in the office or working from home or anywhere remotely, really, is just being able to adapt to maybe new technology. The biggest hurdle now for people is the AI. And I keep saying AI is not new. We've been using it forever. It's just that now it has a different context. Now it's got Chat GPT is one of those things that's like a household name now. But I mean, we've been using AI forever. Any anything that's technology is AI, it's all artificial. It's not us, it's helping us whether you know we were using Word before and whether we were using, you know, things like Facebook or even prior to that, the other social networks. So all of that is AI. It's just a matter of what is being used for now and how it's being used. So I see a lot of people getting into trouble because they're relying on it too much. They're adapting to it because that's the new trend, but in the wrong way. So, how do we do it in a healthy and in a proper way where we're not getting into any legal consequences, we're not getting into plagiarism, we're not getting into not thinking anymore because that's a problem. When we're relying on AI, we're not really thinking. It's okay to use it as a tool and as a crutch and as a resource, but not to have it think for us. I think that's the biggest thing. So, you know, I try to work with a lot of people around that because the notion, it's very easy to fall into the trap of I'm just gonna put, you know, a prompt in and it's gonna give me everything I need. But then what happens when you're tested on it? What happens when you're called out on something that it says in there and you have no clue because you didn't write it? So again, that's the resilience piece. What do you do in that moment, right? If somebody says to you, well, you wrote here that A, B, C, and D, now what? And you're like a deer in headlights because you didn't write it. So you have to take ownership. Even if you're using a tool, you have to know what it is that you're presenting because really it's your name on the line. It's your right, your credibility. And you need to be able to work around that. So for me, you know, whether I'm working in person, whether I'm doing it online, if it's a self-led program, or if I'm doing, you know, live coaching, it's all about, you know, how I'm handling the situation and what would I do if I were in a different type of environment, right? But we all we have to be so basically what it boils down to is your personality and who you are and what you are. You have to be the same across the board, right? If you're like this at home, you need to be like this at work, you need to be like this with your family in a social setting, wherever you are, you need to be you. And I think with the authenticity part, if you are true to yourself, then you're most likely you won't get into trouble.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah. Yeah. I think we could probably have a whole podcast just on how AI is affecting innovation, creativity, and resilience. Right. You know, that could just be the whole thing because eventually at some point AI is just going to be learning off of itself as opposed to other people. So I think there's there might be some sort of wall that gets hit as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

This was very stimulating conversation. I really appreciate some of those tips that you gave. And if someone wanted to reach out to you and find you, where can we find you? What are your socials, websites, names of companies? Do some work.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

So Varid Learner, you can find me online, just Google it. You can look me up on LinkedIn or on Facebook. Uh, the company name is BisDance, B-I-Z-S-T-A-N-C-E.com. And yeah, you can just reach out to me, connect on there, and follow my work.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Wonderful. And then Verid Learner is spelled just for our audience listening. V-E-R-E-D L-E-R-N-E-R. Thank you so much for joining us. And for all those lessons, I am Jessica Soudin. Thank you for taking the time to lean in to learn.