Episode 28: Ryan Fox - New Zealand's Top Golfer

This week we welcome Ryan Fox to the Top 100 Clubhouse. Ryan a pro golfer currently ranked 41st in the world and 1st in New Zealand.

He talks about how the All Blacks rugby team, most notably his legendary father Grant, have impacted his golfing career. We discuss his experience playing on the PGA Tour of Australasia, the Asian Tour and the European Tour, as well as New Zealand's rise to becoming a leading golf destination.

Top 100 Clubhouse brought to you by Golf Gin created in homage to the spirit of golf in St. Andrews by Eden Mill. 

Transcript

James Henderson
 0:00:00
 The top 100 Clubhouse podcast is brought to you by Eden Mill. Bring the tradition of distilling whiskey and gin back to St Andrews, the home of golf.

Ryan Fox
 0:00:08
 Hey guys, I'm Ryan Fox, currently playing on the PGA and DP World Tours and the top 50 in the world and currently New Zealand's highest ranked golfer.

James Henderson
 0:00:24
 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Top 100 Clubhouse, the ultimate podcast for golf course enthusiasts worldwide. I'm your host, James Henderson, and we're about to embark on a journey through lush fairways and breathtaking landscapes, as well as delving deep into the minds of fascinating individuals from every corner of the golfing universe. Golfing Universe. Get ready to explore the world's top golf courses through the eyes of those who know them best. Thank you very much for coming on, Ryan. We've been trying to find a slot, but we're both

James Henderson
 0:01:05
 busy at one point or not. But it's nice to have you on, especially now that everything's gearing up towards the Masters as well, which is quite exciting.

Ryan Fox
 0:01:13
 Yeah. Yes, I'm looking forward to that again

James Henderson
 0:01:13
 Yeah, well, it's one of those golf courses that you'd really do need to know your way around So it everyone seems to do better the more they go. So it must be quite excited about that

Ryan Fox
 0:01:23
 Yeah, yeah, I had a good experience last year about a couple of times before the event obviously got to play all four rounds as well It's like Disneyland as a golf club. Really? I'm sure I'm not the only person to ever describe it like that But it's just I know there's something very cool about the place. You know, you feel like you're stepping on eggshells as well, but as a golf course, it's yeah, it's pretty special. And it's one of those ones you feel like you know it a little bit anyway, because it's, you know, one of the few tournaments that I showcase all its holes generally, but it's almost, it's the same place every year and has been for what, 90 odd years now or close to it. So it's pretty special and very lucky to have played one and very much looking forward to playing my second.

James Henderson
 0:02:12
 Yeah, well that's the exciting part of the Masters is the fact that it is such a high ranked, well respected place in the world of golf and you get to go there every single year if you're in that top 50 bracket, which is really exciting for someone like yourself is now you're now there. You've been there for a few years now. It must be one of the special moments of the year's calendar, getting that letter through.

Ryan Fox
 0:02:37
 Yeah, it is. You're lucky enough, two years in the top 50 now, which is, you know, as a 30, getting there as 35, I kind of thought it may be a passing by and had just an amazing year in 22 and it was always a goal of mine to get to the Masters and Yet I think I won downhill links at the end of October 22 and the first thing Tim Bada sent in an interview as I finished You know, and this is after winning at the old course, which is pretty special in itself He goes, you're now projected to go to 20 something in the world and that will get you into Augusta. I'm like, oh, I never actually thought of that. Damn, that's pretty cool. And then, yeah, had the invite come through just before Christmas, I will say it was slightly spoiled in the fact that I got an email notification that something was coming from Augusta National. So I was like, okay, I know what that is. And I couldn't wait to get, I was actually away when it arrived, got my neighbor to pick it up and then got back a few days later and grabbed it off him. It was pretty cool opening that for the first time. I did happen to have slightly dirty hands when I opened it stupidly, so it's got a little smudge on the side. So I think I might frame the second one. I was a lot more careful with the second one when I opened it than the first, but yeah, it's pretty cool to have a clean hand.

James Henderson
 0:04:02
 I'm a farmer day to day, so I know what it's like having dirty hands. Everything nice I have is ruined.

Ryan Fox
 0:04:08
 Yeah, I think I'd unhooked my boat and there was a little bit of grease on my hands and I tried to clean it and clean it. I was like, ah, if it's not coming off the soap, it'll be fine. And as soon as I grabbed a piece of paper, it came off. So yeah, it's just on the edge and you could probably frame it out, but it's kind of funny to do that first off.

James Henderson
 0:04:28
 It's a nice story to have as well. So where did golf actually start for you? Because I know golf wasn't your first sport, was it? 

Ryan Fox
 0:04:35
 No, no. I mean, like I always had clubs growing up, but for those that don't know, my old man played for the All Blacks for a decent period of time. My mom's father played cricket for New Zealand for a lot of years in the 30s, 40s and 50s. So I grew up in a family obsessed with sport basically. My mum was a decent tennis player as well.

Ryan Fox
 0:04:57
 So probably my first three sports were cricket, rugby and tennis.

James Henderson
 0:05:03
 in terms to give an understanding to people in America about the rugby significance to your father, the first, well, the World Cup, he was the highest point scorer and won the World Cup as essentially the position of quarterback in rugby. So it's not like he was just anyone who played rugby, he was one of the best players of his generation.

Ryan Fox
 0:05:29
 Yeah, I think he's still one of the highest scoring or point scorers for the All Blacks. Back in those days rugby was quite different. It was fully amateur when he played. And it was, yeah, he like having a full-time job, I think they didn't play anywhere near as many games as what they do now. So I think he only played 40 odd test matches, so international games for the All Blacks.

Ryan Fox
 0:05:53
 But, you know, for that period, it was a decent amount. And he retired just before rugby became professional in 96. I think he retired at the end of 93. So missed out on that, but won the World Cup in 87, the year I was born. And yeah, so I was pretty much destined to always be involved in sport. Like dad played golf, he was the one that introduced me to it. My granddad played as well.

Ryan Fox
 0:06:16
 I always had clubs growing up, whacking the ball around the backyard. I joined a club when I was 12 or 13, just a local club about 10 minutes away. And looking back on it now, golf was probably the one I enjoyed the most. Ironically, I would give up going out on a Saturday night to go and play golf on a Sunday morning with my mates when I was like 17, 18, 16, 17, 18, that kind of thing. School holidays, all I wanted to do was play golf. But I always thought rugby and cricket were my main two sports.

Ryan Fox
 0:06:54
 I did quite a bit of tennis coaching as well growing up, which is kind of weird. Just down at the local tennis club, I was a decent enough player and I could feed a ball relatively close to where it was supposed to go. So I was the one that got roped into that with the tennis coach.

James Henderson
 0:07:09
 You must have quite a quick tennis serve as well.

Ryan Fox
 0:07:11
 I don't know. I mean, I don't think there was any technology involved when I was playing tennis.

Ryan Fox
 0:07:12
 So, like, everything I used to do growing up, like playing cricket, I wanted to hit fours and sixes. I hated running between the wickets. You know, tennis, I always wanted to hit the ball hard and hit winners and stuff like that. And it was the same playing golf growing up. I just wanted to smash it, see where it went. And hopefully I could find it again. Did you find there was any pressure? Playing rugby, yes, but not playing golf. Golf was kind of something I could do away from that. Same with cricket to an extent. But yeah, definitely growing up playing rugby was like, I never got pressure from Dad, it was just from elsewhere. Like, oh, well, he's Fox, he's kid, he should be pretty good.

Ryan Fox
 0:07:53
 I didn't help myself either. I played the same position as him and I kept goals as well. So there was always going to be a direct comparison and I was nowhere near as good as what he was. About the only thing I could do maybe was tackle a little bit better. But yeah, it was, yeah, like just sports was an obsession growing up and it took me a while to get to golf. I didn't get to playing full-time golf till after I left school. I kind of started at university to degree and went, I don't enjoy this. I didn't enjoy playing like men's rugby. I didn't enjoy playing men's cricket. And then just went, okay, well, I love golf. Let's try tournament golf. And I played one, you know, the middle of my first year of university and was like, okay, I love this. And that was me. I probably played two or three tournaments prior

Ryan Fox
 0:08:46
 were more the junior, my home course had a junior comp once a year that I'd play 36 holes in a weekend and that was my tournament. I played like a school championship or something like that. I played a little bit of junior pennant and then started taking it seriously at 18 and that was started playing tournaments around the place, started playing senior pennants and then made the New Zealand squad in I think 2008 and that was when maybe golf was like, oh maybe I can make a career out of this. And I think in the end I probably made the right decision.

James Henderson
 0:09:27
 Well, it's one of the few sports that I can argue that you can continue till God knows in terms of earning money, you don't have to think about a secondary career in. Not until, unless you have a bad few seasons, but it is one of the few sports that you can play in the seniors tour and earn good money and do well. It's quite unbelievable. In terms of what you remember growing up, did you come into these tournaments

James Henderson
 0:09:52
 and you have all these kids who were growing up in situations that were much more golf focused and seeing yourself being able to beat them or compete with them after only a couple of years and thinking, right, this is where I really know I can do this because these guys have had a lot better chance than me.

Ryan Fox
 0:10:09
 I don't know if I ever had that. It was more, I think, because I grew up in the other sports, I always felt like I was quite mentally strong and I was probably a bit older than some of the other kids that I was competing against. I say kids, I mean, I was 22, they were probably 18, 17, 18, 19, something like that. And I always enjoyed the fight, the competition side of it. And that, I think I got that from dad. Dad's like, growing up, we were super competitive and everything, tennis, golf. I mean, dad didn't talk to me, I think for about three days, the first time I beat him off the stick at golf.

Ryan Fox
 0:10:48
 You know, table tennis, pool, you name it. We played it in our house growing up and it was always super competitive and I really enjoyed that. I think maybe being a bit later, being a bit more mature, I may not have been as good a golfer as some of the guys that started earlier, but I could generally control my emotions a bit better down the stretch. I tended to be a bit more patient maybe, which was kind of strange because if I looked at myself playing cricket, I was the opposite of patient.

Ryan Fox
 0:11:24
 It was, yeah, maybe that. I had dad caddy for me a lot as well. So it's like I had an on-course psychologist to an extent, maybe a little bit of an advantage there. to some guys that I wouldn't have otherwise, you know, all black coaches and various other things that I could have a chat about the mental side of the game. I don't think sport to sport, I don't think it changes too much.

James Henderson
 0:11:52
 You couldn't get much more dominant in terms of mental ability on sport than the New Zealand all blacks. They just, they walk onto a pitch and expect to win every single thing they do touch.

Ryan Fox
 0:12:02
 Yeah, and that was the same with Myle Mann when he played as well. They had a very similar aura about them and he was involved in rugby the whole time, whether it was coaching or commentating. He was a selector for the All Blacks for, I'll get this wrong, I think it was probably 10 years when I was first starting professional golf. So when I was struggling, I'd work with a sports psych, but he'd say, hey, look, I can put you in touch with Steve Hansen or who was the All Black coach at the time. Would you want to have a chat to him?

Ryan Fox
 0:12:35
 And I mean, you never turned down an opportunity like that. So I was lucky enough to sit down and have a chat with Steve for an hour and a half over a breakfast and pick his brains about what they did and how it would apply to me. And I think I had a lot of stuff like that that really helped me growing up and coming through that maybe some other guys didn't have. That's amazing. We all know that sport in general is mental but

Ryan Fox
 0:13:02
 engulfed that stupid little ball doesn't move so it's very mental. Yeah it's all

James Henderson
 0:13:09
 mental and we'll get back into that later because I do think the career you've had to get to where you are is probably longer than a lot of the kids you're fighting nowadays. And that's taken a mental game, I can imagine, that is unrivaled in the golf game right now. It's quite amazing, the almost Burning Man S-Ped.

Ryan Fox
 0:13:31
 I don't know about that, but I mean, everyone's pretty mentally strong at the top level. But I think, especially from a New Zealand sense, I was very lucky that I had access to that early on.

James Henderson
 0:13:41
 I guess these guys, a lot of the people like Rory McIlroy or these top players have had access to that from a young age.

Ryan Fox
 0:13:47
 Yeah, and not necessarily, like a lot of them through golf. You know, someone like Rory's played on and off, on tour since he's probably 15 or 16 years old, you know. And you knew straight off the bat that he was gonna be a great player and obviously had great coaching and great mentoring growing up as well. But I think from that perspective, he probably had access to a few of the top pros growing up and I think it was the same for me.

Ryan Fox
 0:14:17
 It was just in a different sport.

James Henderson
 0:14:18
 Yeah, but they're all the same. You hear stories about Johnny Wilkinson kicking mental coach, swapping between sports and doing different things. He worked with Luke Donald, did he not? Was it Dave Alred?

Ryan Fox
 0:14:31
 Yes. I know Dave, he's a good man and he's been involved in golf for a while. He worked with

James Henderson
 0:14:41
 Francesco Molinari when he won the Open. That was at 18 straight powers at the finish to probably one of the toughest golf courses in golf. Yep.

Ryan Fox
 0:14:52
 Quite amazing.

4
 0:14:53
 One of the best too.

James Henderson
 0:14:54
 Oh yeah. Cano... Is it one of your favourites?

Ryan Fox
 0:14:57
 Yeah, Carnoustie is definitely.

James Henderson
 0:14:59
 Do you like the challenge side of it? Is that what...

3
 0:15:02
 Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Fox
 0:15:03
 I mean, yeah, Carnoustie is just hard. You've got to hit the shots, but they're right in front of you. There's nothing funky about it whatsoever. Lots of good holes, but it's just hard, especially if the wind blows properly.

James Henderson
 0:15:16
 Do you find the wind blowing helps you?

Ryan Fox
 0:15:18
 I think it makes the game more creative and I like that. I like the idea of having to feel a shot, which maybe is why I've struggled a little bit in America at times, that it's a lot more point and shoot. You can kind of do whatever you want with it. You don't play in a whole lot of wind, you know, you can pick targets and just kind of hit it at it. And I like the idea of trying to create a shot and playing links golf or playing in the wind and stuff or playing, you know, playing somewhere like Royal Melbourne or Kingston Heath, um, forces you to have to

Ryan Fox
 0:15:56
 create and hit different shots. And that, like, that's what I love the most about the game is the creativity, the way to manufacture stuff.

James Henderson
 0:16:06
 Yeah, it's all this, it's that sandy golf course that you can run it in, you can play it and you get a bit of bad weather and you've got to be the one that creates your destiny, not it's very impressive

Ryan Fox
 0:16:29
 yeah it's just it's different it's just different than the way I see golf you know if you ask me in the wind what I what something playing I would have no idea and some guys can go okay well it's 160 but it's playing 175 and I go well okay 175 I'll hit a 7-iron whatever it is but I could stand there from that 160 and hit a 6-iron, a 5-iron, a 7-iron or an 8-iron depending on what shot I hit and I just can't see it that I'm just

James Henderson
 0:16:59
 going to hit a normal shot and that's it. Do you think that translates from your rugby side because a lot of people that I've spoken to in the rugby game, it's particularly that top level make split-second decisions that aren't based on subconscious, it's a reaction subconscious. And you think that's how you play your golf, through that reaction subconscious, rather than the actual, the practicing to produce perfection?

Ryan Fox
 0:17:22
 Yeah, I'm more see it, hit it, and react, try it. Like when I play my best, it's reacting to what, or trying to get out of my own head and reacting to the target effectively, or reacting to what's in front of me. And that can be really hard to do, but that's definitely how I play my best. And yeah, as I think growing up playing other ball sports where it's react to what's in front of you, I think it's just natural it's gone that way for me.

James Henderson
 0:17:53
 Just so interesting. Sorry, you don't really hear people talk about that much because I don't know, everyone's encouraged to play the American style of the game. I come from, I remember watching you actually, I watched you sitting in the stand on the first Gullan, Scots Open and seeing you hitting an iron of some sort, it must have been a one or two iron because you blasted that thing almost, I think you were 30 yards short of the green up that hill, which is a massive, massive shot.

James Henderson
 0:18:28
 And I was like, right, okay, I'm watching this guy now. And this is before I worked in golf. So it was, so I actually followed you around and it was the, I think it was day two, the Friday of that 2018 tournament that I'm trying to remember. I remember you just nothing, you, you played well, but for the first nine holes, but just there was, you just quite weren't dropping for you. You had a really good you're striking the ball. So nice. It was lovely to watch and

Ryan Fox
 0:18:54
 I mean I finished the right there I shot but I finished in the top 10 that week. I remember that now was like that was a fun golf course to play

James Henderson
 0:19:01
 I love that style of golf. It's a unfortunate enough. That's why I've grown up playing golf. That's where I'm a member and the So right going back with we keep going tangents. It's great to go on them, but we need to go back to the Australasian tour that you were on. What age did you join it?

Ryan Fox
 0:19:23
 So I went to QSchool there at the end of 2011, so I was 24 when I went to QSchool and played my first official tour event in 25. I turned 25 in January, so yeah, I was pretty late. Had a couple of, had I think three or four full years on Aussie, splashed with a little bit of one Asia tour, which you guys probably didn't hear much of over there. That's playing in Korea and China and a few other places.

James Henderson
 0:19:59
 What's the difference between the golf courses in the Australian and well, Australasian tour and the golf courses in the Korean tour and then also to Europe and America?

Ryan Fox
 0:20:10
 I mean, Aussie's got some really good golf courses. We've got some good ones in New Zealand as well. But I was lucky enough, my first few events, like I played an Aussie Masters at Kingston Heath.

James Henderson
 0:20:30
 Golf courses?

Ryan Fox
 0:20:31
 Yeah, I played an Aussie Masters at Huntingdale, Metropolitan, Aussie Open at The Australian, at Royal Sydney. There's some really good golf courses there. So, Sandbelt is kind of in between, like a Lynx-y style course, generally placed firm and really fast. The greens are really, really quick, really good, amazing condition courses. And you've just got to control your ball really, really well to play those. And then you go to Asia and it's very different grasses. That's probably the biggest thing. I mean, if you went and played maybe like the north part of Queensland where it was quite tropical, you'd get similar grasses to Asia, like a lot of Bermuda,

Ryan Fox
 0:21:19
 maybe some Pastelum, I'm not great with the grass names, but like it's very grainy. Yeah, that like playing around Thailand and places like that, Indonesia, that was a shock to the system. Like it's very, very different golf than what we grew up with. Like we never had any grain in anything growing up.

Ryan Fox
 0:21:45
 Obviously you've got the heat over there, which we don't have in New Zealand. You'd get it in Aussie a little bit. And you know, you get massive flies out of the rough. You'd get the into the grain chips that would just roll up the face. That was really hard to get used to. Then you go to a place like Korea or Japan

Ryan Fox
 0:22:00
 and it would be, I'd say a lot more like golf in the US like that a much more temperate climate. A lot of their golf courses are like they don't have a lot of land in either of those places so they're built a lot of them like are really hilly because they're places that you can't really build houses on. Always immaculate condition because golf is so popular over there but it's it's so hard to play. So to be a member of a golf course over there, it's really, really expensive. So they've got huge maintenance budgets and everything like that. And I think, yeah, Korea and Japan are probably the best greens I've ever played on, maybe outside of some of the sand belt courses.

Ryan Fox
 0:22:40
 But also because land is a premium there, you'd have a lot of hazards and OB stakes. And they tended to like those, which I didn't hit it very straight when I was growing up So some of those golf courses were pretty intimidating but it was Yeah, it was pretty cool going at all those places and trying to learn how to how to play it and always take a Couple of goes to figure out the grass or figure out You know how

Ryan Fox
 0:23:07
 How to play certain styles of golf courses and then you go to like South Africa when I first got on tour in Europe and you go to altitude and stand there and the ball goes miles and then just kind of scratch your head and go how does anyone figure out how to play here and I think that's all part of professional golf in general was going and figuring out how to play at different places as quick as you can different grasses different conditions and then hopefully be competitive kind

James Henderson
 0:23:36
 kind of anywhere you go. Does that favour the Australasian, the South African, the amount of South African players coming through is wild, unbelievable. The fact that these guys are willing to go play in these different grasses, different styles of golf course, when they go to places like the PGA, like the DP Worlds across Europe, do you think it benefits them?

Ryan Fox
 0:24:02
 I think, I can't really comment on the South Africans. I know they've got a lot, but I haven't played a whole heap over there. But the Australians, I think more for them is they just grow up with really, really good golf courses. And if you grow up and you can compete around Kingston Heath or Royal Melbourne or the Australian or whatever, and they play all their amateur tournaments on decent golf courses. If you can compete around there, your game translates anywhere in the world.

James Henderson
 0:24:31
 Well that's the thing, it's probably the best quality golf course tour in the world, the Australasian Tour, in terms of the things you play.

Ryan Fox
 0:24:41
 I would say 20 years ago when they had, maybe even longer, guys like Norman, Peter O'Malley, Peter Fowler, Peter Senior, all of that, Craig Parry, those guys playing when they had 20 odd events in the 90s and early 2000s and they played some amazing golf courses. And we still do now, we've got a lot less events, but as I said, when I got on tour 10 years ago, 12 years ago, we were lucky enough to play Kingston Heath and places like that, which, I mean, there's no better golf courses anywhere in the world as far as I'm concerned and if you can play well around a golf course like that you can play well pretty much anywhere.

James Henderson
 0:25:24
 No I'd completely agree with that. Which do you prefer Kingston or Royal Melbourne?

Ryan Fox
 0:25:28
 For me personally it's Kingston. I would say it's very close with the composite course at Royal Melbourne. I've been lucky enough to play that a couple of times and that is just like the east and the west course are good, but I definitely put Kingston Heath above the east and the west but the sum of the parts that the composite course is really something special as a golf course, so It's a coin flip and for me it just goes to Kingston Heath, but it's very, very tight.

James Henderson
 0:26:02
 Yeah, well it's a very, I guess, honestly every time we post something on any social, anything about Kingston Heath or about Royal Melbourne, it's always people comparing each of them being like, no this one's better, this is better. It's quite funny. But it just shows you the quality that you have down there.

Ryan Fox
 0:26:19
 15 of them down there that are amazing.

James Henderson
 0:26:21
 Yeah, I've got a friend of mine who's just doing a three-month tour around all the golf courses of Australia and I'm incredibly jealous. He's yeah yeah it's amazing. Why is the Australian Open not the fourth major? That's just golf. This is where the crookie crumbles. Yes I mean historically as a tournament it's huge right it's I mean there's a who's who of what who has won the Australian Open. I mean, I think Jack and Arnie used to go down there

Ryan Fox
 0:26:55
 Back in the day and play. I'm pretty sure both of their names are on the trophy. Don't know That's a bit of a shame because it might bring more spotlight to Australian golf in the modern era

James Henderson
 0:27:05
 Yeah, look, it's it's a tough one at the moment

Ryan Fox
 0:27:08
 I mean, it's such a good event still but they struggle they seem to struggle down there with the corporate side of it, that they can get a little bit of help, but a lot of the help down there is government side and the government finds it hard to throw, you know, you need to throw 10 million in an event now to get the best players, probably plus some appearance fees for guys to come down. And that's, that's really hard to do, you know, which is probably why that world tour that's getting touted at the moment has so much appeal that there is a lot of guys that really want to go down and play in Australia. If you had a $10 million event at Kingston Heath, you'd not struggle to get a field for

James Henderson
 0:27:53
 it, that's for sure. It's amazing that it's obviously such a historic competition, but yet, I don't know what's happened. I'm not old enough to know. So your next step was the DP World, or European Tour.

Ryan Fox
 0:28:17
 Challenge Tour to start with. Challenge Tour.

3
 0:28:20
 Yeah.

James Henderson
 0:28:21
 How did you find the challenge?

Ryan Fox
 0:28:23
 I actually enjoyed it. I'd never been to Europe before playing Challenge Tour in 2015. I signed with a management company in early 2015 and they said, come over to Europe, we'll get you some starts on Challenge Tour. At that point, it was kind of like playing in Aussie for the most part, but you didn't have three big events at the end of the year. for 150,000, 200,000 euro a week on Challenge Tour, which was, you know, we're at that point in Aussie, the second tier events, you're playing for 100,000 Aussie, which is probably 60 or 70,000

Ryan Fox
 0:29:00
 euro. So I was like, okay, this is cool. I can go to some different places and play. And the standard was very similar to Aussie. I think there's a lot of really good players in Aussie. So like straight off the bat, I'd finished I think in 2014. I finished third on the Aussie Tour order of merit. So like I was Decently competitive down there and then went to went to challenge tour and had a couple of top teams straight off the bat Went to open qualifying and qualified for the open at st. Andrews in 15 Where did you qualify? I Qualified at Glasgow Gales. I'm playing there in two months and a half. It's a nice golf course. I don't remember much I all I remember is I finished I think I shot one under one under and sat there

Ryan Fox
 0:29:46
 But as I finished the last group went off for that Because it's 36 holes around the same course I was like oh this might have a chance and I sat there for like four and a half five hours to then get in The playoffs and then got through on the second plaza. Oh wow, so it's impressive that you managed to get into the playoff. You won the playoff

James Henderson
 0:30:05
 after sitting around for so long.

Ryan Fox
 0:30:06
 Yeah, I think it was three guys for two spots and then some kid birdied the first hole. And then it was me and Reece Davies, I think, in the second playoff hole and I hit it in the fairway first up and he hit it on the heather and then didn't get it out or struggled to get it out. And I was like, okay, just hit it on the green and make four and I should be okay. And I did and got in the open at St. Andrews, which was pretty cool. So my first seeing of St. Andrews was in the open.

James Henderson
 0:30:34
 It's not bad. Maybe it gave you an education to go on to win the Dunhill. So how did you find the result? There must have been a drop in golf course quality when you arrived in your Challenge and European tour. How did you find the difference between the tours that you were previously on and the European stuff?

3
 0:31:00
 There was a little bit.

Ryan Fox
 0:31:04
 They were still in decent condition, but you just play in Challenge Tour, you just play a few funky places. We played some great courses on challenge. So a couple of ones we played in China were amazing Couple of ones we played in Kazakhstan were really good out like wow, we're from very little from very low expectation But yeah, you just go and play you know got my first event was in France and Place called Saint-Omer and all the guys that had played there before called it Saint-Nightmare because you got heaps of funny bounces. And I'd got like, at that point I'd played in Asia, which a bunch, and played courses

Ryan Fox
 0:31:47
 very similar, like out of bounds, super close to the hole from nowhere, or super close to the fairway from nowhere, like massive slopey fairways that you couldn't hit. You'd go, oh, okay, it's just a golf course in the end, you've just still got a score. I think that helped in the end. I think early on too, I had the excitement of traveling to a completely different place. It was easy to go, okay, well, I'm in France and I'm playing golf. Who cares if the golf course is a bit funky? It's still pretty cool. That must be an advantage for you. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Being able to walk here and your mindset is instantly not negative.

Ryan Fox
 0:32:31
 Yeah, yeah. Like again, I went to St. Domere that first time and everyone's like, I hate this place, I don't want to play it. I'm like, well, yeah, it's weird but I'm happy to play it. You kind of feel like you've beaten half the field anyway when you get to that point.

James Henderson
 0:32:48
 Does them is there any golf courses on the European side that don't get the respect That you think they deserve that you played or I Would say the one

Ryan Fox
 0:32:59
 And it gets respect, but doesn't get as much as it should as golf national in Paris. Oh, you're big fan I'm massive fan of that. I think you can make it too extreme. If it gets too firm or you get the rough too nasty, it becomes too hard. But if you set it up properly, and I think there's so much water and so many hard shots you have to play, it's better having the rough a little bit down

Ryan Fox
 0:33:33
 and making you make a decision on whether you're going to take something on or not, then, okay, well, I've hit it in the rough and I can't get it over the water, so I'm just going to hack a wedge down and hack a wedge on the green. I've now got my batting boot coat for the Olympics. I've had one good week there and a few not so good weeks, but it's just I feel like it's one, they talk about the players not suiting anyone, it's just the guy that's playing the best. And Sawgrass is definitely that, you know, not super long, but you've just got to hit really good shots around it.

Ryan Fox
 0:34:10
 And Golf National is very, very similar. Yeah, I can see that. I remember you hit one bad shot and there was opening four holes and you're really, you're put into danger. The first two holes, even the first four holes around there, it's welcome to the jungle. Especially if they, like again, you go play the second hole way back and it's like a four or five iron and it's into the wind, you're like, I've got nowhere to hit this.

James Henderson
 0:34:38
 It's impossible. And then you kind of get a bit of relief riding the course and then you get to the final four or five, you're like...

Ryan Fox
 0:34:48
 I reckon the last six, because 13 is hard, 14 is a gettable par 5 and then 15 through 18 are just, you can make birdies on them if you had good shots, but you can make 8s pretty quickly if you don't. Yeah, very much so. Is it, yeah, 13, no, 14, wait, 13 is the one with the, you play through the trees over the water to the island green. Yeah, that's my favorite. That was my favorite hole in the course It's just fun like I wanted to play it again. Yeah every time yeah

Ryan Fox
 0:35:23
 Yeah, as long as if it's set up like it was blowing hard and it's the tee's are all back and it's not quite Set up right it can be too hard. It's super intimidating, but Like if but if you're helping it for a French open a national open and you want to set it up like that fair But I mean you could make even power wood around there really really quickly

James Henderson
 0:35:44
 Well, that's a make for a good Olympics definitely And well, yeah

Ryan Fox
 0:35:51
 So I know that when you first

James Henderson
 0:35:55
 Got onto the Scottish Open scene. You had two really strong finishes early doors, two classical golf courses, and then they switched to Renaissance, which is the newer style of Tom Doak's designs, and it hasn't quite come to the same fruition. Do you find you suit that older style of golf course better than the new architects, new age architects?

Ryan Fox
 0:36:23
 Yeah, I just I don't know about that necessarily it's just I love playing links golf, but you know and I Felt like Renaissance it's kind of in between a little bit like it's it's links ish, but Yeah, you kind of get nothing in between there. It's if you play it still and it's point and shoot. But if it plays firm like it has done the Scottish Open the last couple of years and blows a little bit, like you don't get to use the ground as well as you do around a lot of the traditional links golf courses.

Ryan Fox
 0:37:04
 And I think that, you know, you can hit decent shots that go, well, it didn't land where it would, like it landed where I thought it was going to be okay. And it kind of kicks a funny direction. I'm not saying it's a bad golf course, but it's just, it becomes a little bit, a little bit funky in places when it's really firm. Whereas you go play somewhere like Carnoustie

Ryan Fox
 0:37:31
 for that open and say Aiden where Francesco won. I mean, a golf course, the only way you could describe that was a road. It was as firm as a golf course could be. I mean, you'd have guys trying to lay up short of a bunker and hitting it 40 yards past it when it lands on a little downslope. And you could almost, guys were hitting it in the burn on 10 and 18 with driver, which is unheard of, like it's 400 yards, at least down there.

Ryan Fox
 0:37:59
 But the golf course was so playable still when it was that firm. I think traditional links golf courses have managed to keep that, that they can be playable in kind of any condition to an extent.

James Henderson
 0:38:16
 Yes, particularly when for people like yourself who are competing for such, you know, this is your job, this is your livelihood, when you get something that is just completely out of ordinary bounce, it must be so frustrating, especially if you're on a roll.

Ryan Fox
 0:38:34
 You get used to it. I mean, you know luck is a massive factor, but it's frustrating. It is certainly frustrating when you hit a shot kind of exactly where you want to hit it. And like the best example of it for Renaissance is that I think we played as a team for par 5, and you stand there and you get a great drive in and hit 7-iron in and you hit it up in the air and you've got to take out that false front and you go well, you hit it and you go okay I don't know whether that's perfect or it's over the back of the green.

Ryan Fox
 0:39:03
 And there's a yard between and either way, like if it lands middle of the green it runs over, if it lands short of the green on the down slope it scoots over very quickly, but if you land just at the flat on the bottom of the hill, you can keep it on the back edge of the green. It just becomes, in that sense, yeah, like if you're hitting a 7-iron from 100 or 200 yards, it's pretty hard to, especially in the wind, to control where it's going to land within a yard or two.

James Henderson
 0:39:33
 Yeah, okay. because it's obviously become a very popular tournament and it's done well the Scottish Open going from strength to strength, pulling in a lot of Americans as well. Big names are all playing in it.

Ryan Fox
 0:39:50
 Yeah, and it fits perfectly, right? It's length golf the week before the Open. Even though sometimes the scoring's not amazing, it's not like you feel like you get beaten up. It would be really hard to go to somewhere like Carnoustie where you know it's hard and play that then the week before the Open. And you could, if you got bad weather both weeks, you could get properly beaten up two weeks in a row. Whereas Renaissance, for the most part, you feel like you've got some space to hit it.

Ryan Fox
 0:40:27
 And it's not, even if it's windy and you might get some funny bounces, you're still not super stressed out by the end of the week.

James Henderson
 0:40:36
 Just on that note, are you planning to come over for the Irish Open when it's at Royal Countertown? I certainly am.

Ryan Fox
 0:40:44
 That's on my bucket list, I've never played it, but it's definitely, I've heard it's one of the best in the world and I'm very much looking forward to playing it and hopefully we don't get bad weather there because I heard it can be really fun if it's bad. Well, that's, it's tight. And it's a tricky, it's a very difficult golf course. Maybe fun's not the right word for it. So, after your kind of stint of European tour and then it became the DP World tour within the time you've been there? Or is it DP World tour the whole time? No, it was European and DP World while I was there.

Ryan Fox
 0:41:26
 How do you find the courses over in Dubai and with the finishing courses being there? different golf again, you know, desert golfers. It's in a good way, very manufactured, right? Like if you don't have grass there anyway, and they're amazing golf courses to play. Like, you know, the Yassalint we've played in Abu Dhabi is very cool. I love the old Abu Dhabi golf course. We used to play Emirates, I think is a great golf course, you know, probably one of the most iconic tee shots you could ever hit on that 8 hole for a very different reason than most, you know, you think, you know,

Ryan Fox
 0:42:10
 most iconic tee shots is water or a cliff line or something like that. That's just a vista of skyscrapers and purely because none of them were there when the golf course was built, but it's very cool. And that's a golf course that's really grown on me. I won in Razzle Khymer as well and that was a really fun place to play. Again, it probably took a little while to work out how to play that style of golf course. Very similar grasses to some of the ones you play in Asia, quite grainy and absolutely perfect.

Ryan Fox
 0:42:44
 Not a blade of grass out of place, which is very cool. Do you feel like that stuff at Asia really helped you learn that style of golf? Yeah, definitely. I wouldn't say I've figured it out properly yet, but I feel a lot more comfortable playing in Asia on the grainy style grasses than I did when I first came out. Even this week in Florida, we're playing on some grainy stuff and I at least feel like I go in with an idea of what the club's going to do through the turf, what the ball's going to do, compared to when I first got out and stood there and looked into

Ryan Fox
 0:43:20
 the grain and thought, what do I do here? Do I get steep? Do I use the bounce? How do I hit this?

James Henderson
 0:43:27
 So, when you moved to America, was that learning curve quite… you obviously had played a bit in America before that from the European NDP. You'd been invited to a few tournaments and done well in certain ones. Did you find that the learning curve was probably the biggest learning curve because of that grain and that grain difference?

Ryan Fox
 0:43:56
 Not necessarily the grain. I think coming over here. It's more point-and-shoot style golf It's kind of smash it for them for the most part. Anyway, smash it hit it really high All the pins are tucked all the roughs really up and it's like you've got to be really precise and you've got a putt the ball really really good over here generally if you want to score and I I don't know, I just, I've never, I think growing up playing in Australia and New Zealand, I've never seen the ball up that much. You know, we play in Winder lot, I'm used to knocking it down and it's taken a while

Ryan Fox
 0:44:34
 to figure out how to do that.

James Henderson
 0:44:39
 Do you speak with other people who have played in the conditions from the Australasian side to discuss what different golf courses suit different games or is it you kind of work it out along the way?

Ryan Fox
 0:44:56
 You kind of work it out along the way. I'd see Williams tell me early on that to play in America you've got to hit it up. But I think it's also, it kind of comes naturally when you see where some of the pins are tucked. You go, well, the only way to get here is to hit it straight up. I've definitely started hitting it higher the last couple of years purely on that being based over here. I'm playing a lot more over here, should I

James Henderson
 0:45:25
 say. So you've just naturally done it or was it an intended consequence of playing there?

Ryan Fox
 0:45:36
 I think it's just naturally happened more than anything else. I've messed with equipment a little bit. I've changed my ball to go a little bit spinnier, which is far more common over here than what it is in Europe. Um, like a lot of guys will have like a seven wood in the bag over here, or even a nine wood, I think some guys have. Um, and that's purely to just hack something out of the rough. Like if you need to hit the ball 200 yards, 180 yards,

Ryan Fox
 0:46:01
 it's really hard to like hack a fire vine out of a bad life. Like it just doesn't come out. You know, and at that point the lie is bad enough going, well, I can maybe get an eight or a nine on it, but it'll probably only go 120, 130 yards. So over here, a lot of guys have gone to, the woods tend to go through, the high lofted woods tend to go through the grass way better.

Ryan Fox
 0:46:22
 So it's just, you get in there and just hit like a chop cut and it kind of pops out and runs forward and hopefully you get it up in a greenside bunker or up near the green, you try to get it up and down.

James Henderson
 0:46:37
 Give yourself a chance. I just, I don't know, it's just I'm too proud to play with my grandfather's club. I just, I know my dad used to have a seven wood and I still have the 7 through the back but Ryan tell me a bit about what it felt like to be working towards, how long had you been on the Pro Tours before you, 2022?

Ryan Fox
 0:47:03
 So basically that was my 11th year on tour in 22 as a 35 year old.

James Henderson
 0:47:20
 And how did it feel to be everyone and all the youngsters and everyone and be the DP

Ryan Fox
 0:47:27
 World Player of the Year? It was pretty surreal to be honest. I mean, I'd had a pretty average couple of years through 2020 and 21. I took all the pressure off early in 22 winning that rack, third of entry, kind of snowballed from there. I put myself in contention a bunch of times. Arguably could have won a couple more times, had things gone my way. And then winning Dunhill at the end of 22 was very special.

Ryan Fox
 0:47:58
 The win around the home of golf really doesn't get any better. And then I gave Rory a pretty good run for the Order of Merit title, which if you'd have told me that at the start of the year, I'm not sure I would have believed you. And then as you get that Seve Ballesteros trophy and see the names on that trophy and have my name with them is pretty incredible to be honest. And it's cool that it's voted for by your peers. Yeah, that's the cool thing. That means a lot. Like I knew I obviously had a really good year

Ryan Fox
 0:48:32
 finishing second on the Order of Merit was amazing. But yeah, to then have your peers say, we think you're the best player of the year last year, that's very cool. And always cherish, regardless of what happens for the rest of my career.

James Henderson
 0:48:47
 And so we can get into everything in America, but I know it's still early days. So I don't really I know you've moved out there and everything's very exciting. And we're playing on the PGA Tour and there's a lot of big tournaments coming up for you. So maybe another time we can discuss after a few years of you playing, we'll find out how you're getting on. But I always like to finish on first one last question

3
 0:49:15
 and that is the

James Henderson
 0:49:17
 top five Favorite courses, so I've had someone say 13. I've had someone say for but it's favorite It's not your it's not the best course you've ever played your favorites

Ryan Fox
 0:49:29
 Okay, there's gonna be a recurring theme here because most of them will be links golf. So in no particular order I'd say Portrush, St. Andrews, Tara Eadie, I'm gonna say Kingston Heath and we've talked about it a lot I would say Carnoustie and I'll throw in another one I really like Kings Barns so there's also love that tournament and I think you know Kings

Ryan Fox
 0:50:13
 Barns is not a traditional old-style wince course but I think that's a whole lot of fun to play and it's very playable and all conditions. Yeah, agreed. There's a couple of others. The old course at the National in Melbourne, in the South of Melbourne is phenomenal. We've got a couple of new ones in New Zealand, Tiare Links, which I happen to be attached to, but it's got nothing to do with that.

Ryan Fox
 0:50:40
 We've got a Doke and a Cora and Crenshaw course there, and both of them are a whole lot of fun to play. I've heard a rumor that you might hold some course records in that North Auckland area.

James Henderson
 0:50:49
 Yeah, I've got a couple.

Ryan Fox
 0:50:51
 I think Tara Eadie in the South course at Tiare last year and I tied the North course earlier this year, but I'd still like to get that one out right.

James Henderson
 0:51:04
 When you're in Auckland, do you just go up, give it a wee battle? Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. I'm attached to Te Ari, so I get to go up there kind of whenever I want.

Ryan Fox
 0:51:09
 And it's about an hour from home, so it's a pretty good trip to take people up to and play. And I've got a bunch of mates who are members up there, so always can find a game. And Tara Eadie, I've got a couple of mates who are members there as well. And I've played with Rick Kane a bunch from who owns it. So it's pretty cool to have access to those courses and get to play them a bit. To have golf courses of that quality not that far from home is very cool and it's right up my alley. I love that style of golf. They're very linksy, built on sand, very firm, even though the tiare courses are new, they're still relatively firm and they're going to firm up over the next couple of years. So they're really fun places to play.

Ryan Fox
 0:52:13
 And again, they're very playable in kind of all conditions. And you go play tare-e-te on a nice day or tiare on a nice day, it's very scorable. And you go play it on a 15, 20 mile an hour day and you're hanging on to your pants and trying to keep a ball where you can find it. I love that about that style of golf, Link style of golf. That would be probably why all of those courses I named are pretty much Link's courses.

James Henderson
 0:52:42
 The best way someone described to me is when you go to play St Andrews, you never play the same shot twice. That was a lovely way of describing it. The state of New Zealand golf is really exciting. The things are getting built there, the ground, the, well, everyone talking about those three courses north of Northland, Auckland is just. The amount of golf raters I speak to have turned to me and gone, this is, you know, this is serious stuff. This is not, this is top 10 stuff we're talking about here. Yeah, I agree with that. This is proper golf courses. So it must be really exciting for New Zealand to have

Ryan Fox
 0:53:20
 those kind of things entering the map. Yeah, we've turned ourselves into a golfing destination. I mean, I think we've been a tourist destination for a while for various reasons, but you've probably got 15 golf courses with rumors of a few more going to be built over the next five to 10 years of quality anywhere in the world. Yeah. And you can do... It probably started with Kate Kidnappers and Carrie Cliffs, maybe 15 or 20 years ago. And then Tara Eadie is kind of added to that hugely.

Ryan Fox
 0:53:59
 You say that name around golf worldwide and everyone seems to know it and either everyone has either played it or wanting to play it which is pretty cool Tiare is definitely getting to that stage now as well there's a lot of people really really talking about that and you know we've got some some other fantastic ones dotted around the country and you can do a nice tour down there especially if you throw Aussie in the mix as well, go spend a few weeks in Aussie and then come spend a couple of weeks in New Zealand, you can do a pretty nice golf tour.

James Henderson
 0:54:31
 Not bad, not bad at all. Right, I'm going to let you go have your dinner because I know it's just arrived. So thanks very much for joining us and talking about golf courses and the ones you've played and what you've been through. It's really fascinating. I think your journey is one that everyone will find very interesting. Thanks very much Ryan Fox for coming on. That was a very insightful understanding of the difference between the tours that you've been on and the quality of golf courses. It really

James Henderson
 0:55:05
 was eye opening. I didn't realise that you played such amazing golf courses on the Australian Tour. And to everyone else, thank you very much for listening and to everyone who's got in touch, thank you very much for getting in touch. For those who haven't got in touch, it's james at top100golfcourses.com, always happy to hear from you. If you want to get in touch with social media, it's the official Top 100. We have a lot of fun there, talk a lot about different, there's a lot of cool debate on that Instagram actually, I'd strongly recommend it.

James Henderson
 0:55:39
 Same with the Facebook group. Same with the Facebook group. the video.

 
 
 Transcribed with Cockatoo