Episode 102: How To Understand Golf Course Architecture with Matt Ginella

In this episode of Top 100 Clubhouse, James Henderson sits down with Matt Ginella, founder of Fire Pit Productions, previously the Senior Travel Editor and Director of Photography for Golf Digest.

Matt explains how the personalities of course architects are embedded in their designs, how he learned to appreciate golf course architecture, and why he believes golf travel is one of the most romantic ways to understand the sport.

Along the way, Matt shares his favourite courses, his most memorable golf trips, and how his coverage of Tiger Woods' professional debut at the Greater Milwaukee Open launched his career with Sports Illustrated; cementing him as one of golf's premier storytellers.

Top 100 Golf Courses Website 🛜:
https://www.top100golfcourses.com/

Top 100 Golf Courses Official Merch 🧢:
https://shop.top100golfcourses.com/

Lockhart Travel Club ✈️:
https://www.lockharttravelclub.com/me...

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/officialtop100/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetop100golfcourses/

Chapters

• 0:00 00:00 - Intro
• 1:05 The Top 100 Parkland Golf Controversy
• 4:11 Matt Ginella’s Top 5 Favourite Golf Courses
• 8:51 Matt’s Mt. Rushmore
• 9:44 How Matt Ginella Got Started in Golf & Media
• 14:04 Tiger Woods’ Impact on Golf
• 17:03 How Matt Came To Appreciate Golf Course Architecture
• 20:44 Understanding Golf Course Architecture
• 24:39 Why Do Americans Make Great Golf Travellers?
• 32:21 What Makes a Good Renovation?
• 37:36 Difference Between Restoration and Renovation
• 40:26 What Separates the Big Names in Golf Course Architecture?
• 45:01 King Collins and Royal Dornoch
• 46:01 The Magic of Streamsong
• 50:26 Matt Ginella’s Favourite Golf Trip
• 53:26 The Issue With Golf Course Exclusivity
• 54:44 Alister MacKenzie in Australia
• 58:18 What Makes a Good Golf Trip
• 1:05:18 Quick Fire Closing Questions

Transcript

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I mean the game is an amateur game

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I mean the professional side of it

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you know

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there are idols and heroes and fun to watch them play

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but I mean if it weren't for amateur golf

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there would be no golf

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you have to remember when you play a golf course

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and you're out there for four hours or whatever

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you're only hitting the

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you're only hitting a ball for what

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15 minutes of that

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so there's a lot of time to look around

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hello

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and welcome to another episode of Top 100 Clubhouse

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Podcast I'm your host James Henderson and I'm very

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very fortunate to have Matt Chenella on the podcast

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how you doing Matt I'm doing well guys

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thanks for having me

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I've also got Matt's friend Gorka's uh

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who's joining us

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all the way from the Basque region of Spain

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so Gorka thank you very much for coming along as well

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thank you guys and thank you Matt for coming

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my pleasure this is amazing

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well we're gonna get very nerdy

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we're gonna get very deep

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and if there's any point

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we feel like I'm asking a question

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that's just a bit ridiculous

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please feel free to just say piss off

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cause that's how we do it in Scotland

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sounds good I've

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I've never

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ever really asked any podcaster to strike anything

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I'm I'm I'm pretty much an open book

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speak freely and let her rip

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got myself in trouble for doing it

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but it's OK it is what it is

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and invariably you do and say things that uh

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that some people take offense to

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but that you know

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you can't please all the people all the time

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and if you are you're probably not doing anything right

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well we've actually had a bit of an

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I'll just randomly go on a Tangent here

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and we've had a bit of trouble at top 100 recently

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because

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a lot of people don't like the fact that we have rated

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Parkland golf in the UK negatively

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because if you compare it in the UK yeah

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it's good golf

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but if you compare it to Parkland in America or Spain

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it's nowhere near to the standard

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that you guys are able to do it over there yeah

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there's a there's a dime a dozen

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for a lot of Parkland golf in the UK

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if you compare it to American golf

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uh that's part of what I got in trouble for is and

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and again what lens are you looking through right

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what what

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what perspective are you providing a ranking or are you

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you know I know that I am a

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North American traveler

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that has the experience of mostly

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Parkland golf

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or something other than what would be deemed true

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links golf

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over there we

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what we go to consume as a North American traveler

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with an emphasis on anything but links golf

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we come chasing the best of links golf

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so for us to go over

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or for me to look at a ranking of UK and Ireland golf

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and you know

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and

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and see Parkland golf in the rain

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it doesn't even compute

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cause it's just not something we're

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we're hunting

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it's not something we're chasing necessarily

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there's exceptions to every rule

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so to speak but

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you know or are you from there

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you have you know

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I know

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not a majority of golf in the UK and Ireland is links

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there is a bunch of Parkland

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and there's good Parkland golf

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but are you judging your Parkland golf against our

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Parkland golf

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are we judging our links golf against your links golf

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where does it start and where does it end

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and then goes back to that lens

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you know and then what are your sensibility

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this is all so subjective

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everything is

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there is no actual official right or wrong

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and that's why any and all rankings create that debate

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that conversation uh

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and I look at some rankings

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and immediately I see one course better than uh

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another and I think well

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I don't like this ranking at all

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that makes no sense

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cause if they're gonna put that above that

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that that

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that that ranking's dead to me but um

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and sometimes

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rankings will be really good for 1 through 20

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and then 21 through 50 it's like janky and wonky

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and then it starts getting out of control

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but and then from 51 to 100 is always another sort of

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wild range of stuff that's a mix of

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you know I know I gotta get that in there

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but it's not where I want it

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I'll just throw it in there

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put that name in there you know

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so I've I've kicked around rankings

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I know what mine I know what my favorites are

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I know why I've got different categories

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I've got you know

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and then you got the sentimentality of it all and

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but this is me and you know

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that's the way it works I think actually

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maybe let's start with that okay

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so I normally at the end of every podcast ask

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what's your top 5 favourite golf courses

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not best favourites yeah

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ones that mean the most

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so let's just go with that for the start

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immediately start with the Old Course at Saint Andrews

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that to me is is No. 1 by

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by a million and it's just in its own class

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its own category it's got its own

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uh

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it's got its own world it's its own planet honestly

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because of its history and its relevance

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and where it sits and why

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you know the home of golf

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Old Tom Morris you know

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to me Old Tom is the he's

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you know he's his own Mount Rushmore

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it's you know

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he's got architecture and championship golf

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and club fitting and uh

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and uh agronomy

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so he's got he

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he touches the four pillars of sort of the game

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and that guy has had

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big influence on all four of those pillars

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so yeah every and then you think oh

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the flat overlooking the 18th green where Sheila Walker

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his great great granddaughter still lives to this day

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there's you know

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and you leave town and you come back to town

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and the double greens and the drivable fours and the

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you know swolen bridges and the

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you know valley of sin and the just

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you just can't can't get enough after that

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now you're talking about uh jeez

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the hinch for me water bills in the conversation

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Bandon Dunes

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the OG Bandon Dunes if you're talking about favorites

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um Pebble Beach is in that conversation for me

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Cypress Point uh

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I uh

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it it

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it really starts getting hard to

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to narrow it down to 4 right there

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um

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I think pebbles definitely in that in that top 5

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Bandon Dunes is definitely in that top five

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uh I think Bandon Trails is probably in that top 5

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uh as Core Crunch uh

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not you know talk about you know essentially Parkland

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it's sand based it's near the ocean

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but it's you know it's within the trees and it's it's

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you know it's certainly not links

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um

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and yeah I I do think Cypress is in there for me

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so I'm a Norcal guy so Bandon Dunes

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Bandon Trails Cypress Point

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Pebble Beach and Old Course at Saint Andrews fee

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you know and then Lahinch Waterville

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you know some of those start getting in there

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smashed in there ha ha ha ha ha ha ha there's

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it's well

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it's a very good list but

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and it's also a list of um

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you could say top quality quirk is more the uh

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yeah same way yeah

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North Barrick is in that conversation too

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by the way not

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you know not saying this knowing that you live

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you know five minutes away

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but I I

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North Barrick is one top quality Cork

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I've never heard that uh

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you know said like that

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but that who wouldn't wanna

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who wouldn't wanna play top quality quirk

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you know what I mean like where things that hold your

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hold your attention

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keep it fun keep it interesting

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make it memorable uh

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spark that intrigue that adventure

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the variety you know

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all of those things matter

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if you're talking about favorites to me

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well that's the thing

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there's uh

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this the Old Course is very good at that

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you know it's very good at

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just showing you things that you probably don't see

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every day yeah

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and it's different every day yeah

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it's different every day right

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like you're you're

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you know and so there's that too uh

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depending on the weather and the direction

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and how you're playing shots

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and the shots you're forced to hit or imagine

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you know sparkling imagination in us who

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who you know what

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great books great movies

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great conversations good relationships

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all of that right

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that that

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that what that's what we're talking about here

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what's same with art on the wall

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what does it do for you does it elicit a good image

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a you know um

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a good song

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all of those things are filtering into the same type of

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essence of what we deem our favorites

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speaking about mount you were on Mount Rushmore

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you've got Old Tom who else is there

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old Tom

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I'll put Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw on there right away

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uh as modern minimalist uh

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for me and then uh

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what's in between would Alister Mackenzie is in there

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and uh

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the last one is

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it would be it's

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it's do you put Seth Rogen and CB

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McDonald in the same you know

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same bucket I

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you know I

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I to me there

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Seth Rogen doesn't exist without old

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you know CB McDonald

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so CB Seth Rainer

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Bill Corben Crenshaw you know

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Old Tom and Alister Mackenzie

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I'd be if I'm just playing those guys we're

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you know we're

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we're good

259
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,533
you're on to a winner you're absolutely on to a winner

260
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,433
yeah and so let's get into where it all started for you

261
00:10:17,433 --> 00:10:19,833
how did golf where did you start with golf

262
00:10:19,833 --> 00:10:22,966
how did it all come you know my

263
00:10:22,966 --> 00:10:24,766
my a neighbor um

264
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,800
loved playing and growing up as a kid

265
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,000
and got invited out there one day with him

266
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,033
and we went out to the Sonoma County Fairgrounds

267
00:10:32,033 --> 00:10:34,066
and played this little 9 hole course that

268
00:10:34,066 --> 00:10:35,766
you know still exist to this day

269
00:10:35,766 --> 00:10:39,066
but we probably played it for three bucks maybe if that

270
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,266
um Matt Cohen and his dad Al Cohen

271
00:10:42,266 --> 00:10:44,400
Matt Cohen was the outlier at that time

272
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:45,566
we were all playing football

273
00:10:45,566 --> 00:10:46,666
basketball baseball

274
00:10:46,666 --> 00:10:48,300
soccer anything that

275
00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:50,866
you know that was that type of

276
00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:54,033
you know a prototypical sport there that

277
00:10:54,033 --> 00:10:56,666
you know and for kids in Northern California

278
00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:58,766
Matt Cohen was the one playing golf

279
00:10:59,166 --> 00:11:01,966
Matt Cohen and I were really close and uh

280
00:11:01,966 --> 00:11:04,233
so when I got the invite to go with Matt Cohen

281
00:11:04,233 --> 00:11:06,466
okay now I have a buddy who plays golf

282
00:11:06,566 --> 00:11:07,966
I was doing all these other sports

283
00:11:07,966 --> 00:11:12,866
but you then I had an uncle who played golf a lot

284
00:11:12,866 --> 00:11:15,166
high level he was very into it

285
00:11:15,266 --> 00:11:20,600
so Matt Cohen leads me and connects me to my uncle

286
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,366
who then you know

287
00:11:22,366 --> 00:11:25,500
really takes me under his wing and tries to help me

288
00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:29,266
teach me the grip so it goes from a buddy to an uncle

289
00:11:29,266 --> 00:11:33,833
my dad played occasionally lifetime 22 handicapper

290
00:11:33,833 --> 00:11:35,400
you know um

291
00:11:35,633 --> 00:11:38,066
work too hard to really ever be good

292
00:11:38,066 --> 00:11:39,966
or give too much time to the game

293
00:11:39,966 --> 00:11:41,266
at that time especially yeah

294
00:11:41,266 --> 00:11:42,800
I mean I was the youngest of 5 kids

295
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,066
we had a lot going on he was

296
00:11:44,066 --> 00:11:45,300
he was working his ass off

297
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:46,466
so um

298
00:11:46,466 --> 00:11:48,700
but I did enjoy golf with my dad

299
00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:49,800
the the issue for me is

300
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,966
I couldn't play with my dad and my uncle

301
00:11:51,966 --> 00:11:53,500
cause they didn't really get along

302
00:11:53,633 --> 00:11:54,433
they were

303
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,200
especially my dad thought my uncle was a sandbagger

304
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,900
my uncle was like you know

305
00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:01,633
just get better and my dad couldn't get better

306
00:12:01,633 --> 00:12:03,900
and so unfortunately

307
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,766
there was a bit of a fork in the road

308
00:12:05,766 --> 00:12:07,200
as relates to that relationship

309
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,466
but I was able to have a lot of good golf memories

310
00:12:09,466 --> 00:12:10,000
with my dad

311
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,400
and a lot of good golf memories with my uncle

312
00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:14,200
ultimately I end up riding horses

313
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,500
and when horses sort of hit a snag for me'cause a horse

314
00:12:18,566 --> 00:12:19,966
you know colic in the

315
00:12:19,966 --> 00:12:22,433
right before a big event it was like

316
00:12:22,433 --> 00:12:26,000
I need to pour my energy and attention into something

317
00:12:26,033 --> 00:12:29,700
and at that time the high school team was really good

318
00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:32,033
but they only had like four or five good players

319
00:12:32,033 --> 00:12:33,600
and they needed kind of depth

320
00:12:33,866 --> 00:12:34,800
and I was like well

321
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,233
I'll play golf and so

322
00:12:36,233 --> 00:12:40,666
I threw myself into golf and really went after it

323
00:12:40,666 --> 00:12:43,033
as hard as I had done anything in life

324
00:12:43,033 --> 00:12:44,100
I was I was way into it

325
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:45,800
I had worked at golf courses

326
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,566
I had worked on the agronomy team

327
00:12:47,566 --> 00:12:48,466
I had worked in the pro shop

328
00:12:48,466 --> 00:12:49,833
had changed grip picked range

329
00:12:49,833 --> 00:12:51,666
so I had worked around golf

330
00:12:52,066 --> 00:12:53,600
played a little bit of golf

331
00:12:53,966 --> 00:12:57,200
timing came up and I started playing a lot more golf

332
00:12:57,300 --> 00:12:59,966
and then into college you know

333
00:12:59,966 --> 00:13:02,266
college back in the 19 early 1990s

334
00:13:02,266 --> 00:13:05,300
pre Tiger Woods you could play college golf and

335
00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:06,866
you know barely break 80

336
00:13:06,866 --> 00:13:08,300
and you know

337
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,900
it was like now if you're not breaking 70

338
00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:12,766
you got no hope at playing college golf

339
00:13:12,766 --> 00:13:13,900
so um

340
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,700
it was a different time so

341
00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:19,200
I was able to play college golf on the side

342
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,433
while I was also learning

343
00:13:20,433 --> 00:13:20,666
you know

344
00:13:20,666 --> 00:13:23,100
about broadcasting and doing my schooling and stuff

345
00:13:23,266 --> 00:13:25,500
and then I graduated and uh

346
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:28,433
went and got a crazy lucky situation

347
00:13:28,433 --> 00:13:29,366
got you know

348
00:13:29,366 --> 00:13:32,166
got an unpaid internship at Sports Illustrated

349
00:13:32,166 --> 00:13:33,266
knew somebody who knew somebody

350
00:13:33,266 --> 00:13:34,166
got me in and that

351
00:13:34,166 --> 00:13:35,400
you know now I'm here

352
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,766
my unpaid intern at Sports Illustrated

353
00:13:38,166 --> 00:13:40,900
and in the photo department

354
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,633
they needed a they needed someone to sort of help the

355
00:13:44,633 --> 00:13:47,533
the assisting there and I

356
00:13:47,866 --> 00:13:49,700
I get a job at Sports Illustrated

357
00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:51,466
as the golf photo editor'cause

358
00:13:51,466 --> 00:13:54,033
no one else in the department really cared about golf

359
00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:55,066
like I did

360
00:13:55,166 --> 00:13:58,233
and the guy who was the golf photo editor was leaving

361
00:13:58,233 --> 00:14:00,000
and going off to do another job

362
00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:02,100
and he says to me hey

363
00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:04,166
I'll train you to do my job

364
00:14:05,166 --> 00:14:09,433
and here it is and they gave me that job

365
00:14:09,433 --> 00:14:11,366
and the first week I took that job

366
00:14:11,366 --> 00:14:14,000
was the 1996 Milwaukee Open

367
00:14:14,033 --> 00:14:15,966
that was the week Tiger Woods turned pro

368
00:14:15,966 --> 00:14:18,400
so I become the golf photo editor

369
00:14:18,633 --> 00:14:20,966
the week that Tiger Woods turned pro

370
00:14:21,433 --> 00:14:22,966
and from that point forward

371
00:14:22,966 --> 00:14:23,700
the energy

372
00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:27,166
and interest and intrigue into the game of golf went

373
00:14:27,166 --> 00:14:28,600
you know went to the moon

374
00:14:28,666 --> 00:14:30,566
and I was on the rocket ship

375
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,133
and that changed everything

376
00:14:33,566 --> 00:14:35,133
what was it like watching that

377
00:14:37,233 --> 00:14:39,200
you know at the time you don't even realize but

378
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,466
you know hello world right

379
00:14:40,466 --> 00:14:42,200
that was the that was the moment

380
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,366
he makes a hole in one at the 1996 Milwaukee Open

381
00:14:45,366 --> 00:14:46,166
I mean he

382
00:14:46,266 --> 00:14:50,033
he never I'm not sure we've ever looked back since

383
00:14:50,033 --> 00:14:51,600
right that's been

384
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,800
you know we're doing Golf plus in the middle of uh

385
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,400
Sports Illustrated magazine

386
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,366
we're doing 30

387
00:14:57,366 --> 00:15:01,300
40 pages of golf specific content each week

388
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,900
in the middle of Sports Illustrated weekly magazine

389
00:15:05,566 --> 00:15:07,700
and I'm the photo editor so I'm I'm

390
00:15:07,833 --> 00:15:11,366
I'm I'm doing coordinating photo shoots with Tiger

391
00:15:11,366 --> 00:15:13,366
and his mom and his dad

392
00:15:13,366 --> 00:15:15,266
and he's going to Thailand and

393
00:15:15,266 --> 00:15:16,200
you know the

394
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,366
the the business of it all is

395
00:15:18,366 --> 00:15:19,933
is is is

396
00:15:20,466 --> 00:15:23,366
is simultaneously growing uh

397
00:15:23,366 --> 00:15:24,166
with golf the

398
00:15:24,166 --> 00:15:25,600
the purses the

399
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,600
the resistance to Tiger

400
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,600
with the Fuzzy Zellers and the Curtis Stranges and the

401
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:31,833
so the old guard

402
00:15:31,833 --> 00:15:35,100
and not really warm and welcoming to the

403
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:36,366
to this this

404
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,033
this kid with it's just

405
00:15:39,033 --> 00:15:41,466
he's looking him right in the eye and he's not blinking

406
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,500
it was amazing it was

407
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,800
it was fascinating and phenomenal in every way

408
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:47,433
shape and form

409
00:15:47,433 --> 00:15:50,433
we're watching the end of the wooden clubs

410
00:15:50,433 --> 00:15:52,900
and we're going into the metal heads and

411
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,833
you know 1997

412
00:15:54,833 --> 00:15:57,466
I think Davis would love won uh

413
00:15:57,766 --> 00:16:00,166
the PGA that year with a wooden

414
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,600
with a wooden club I mean

415
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,900
you know or was the last yeah

416
00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:04,466
so I mean

417
00:16:04,466 --> 00:16:07,900
you know that you're watch technology

418
00:16:08,033 --> 00:16:10,000
the business the eyes

419
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,666
the interest uh

420
00:16:12,366 --> 00:16:13,700
Tiger the the

421
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:14,066
the

422
00:16:14,066 --> 00:16:18,433
the absolutely wrecking ball to the sport as we knew

423
00:16:18,433 --> 00:16:20,900
it was amazing it was incredible

424
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:23,800
it must have been a very cool rocket ship to be on

425
00:16:24,166 --> 00:16:25,200
it was and it

426
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,766
and it you know I

427
00:16:26,766 --> 00:16:28,766
I was at Sports Illustrated at the time

428
00:16:28,766 --> 00:16:30,633
and I'm watching all the writers and I'm

429
00:16:30,633 --> 00:16:32,100
I'm working in the photo department

430
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:34,366
and helping coordinate and produce the photo shoots

431
00:16:34,366 --> 00:16:36,400
and did the tiger with the tiger

432
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,700
that ended up being on the cover of 1998

433
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:40,300
and that's a whole another story at

434
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:43,200
you know rocking a 800 pound tiger into

435
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,600
into Iowa Worth Country Club

436
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,100
and tiger sitting down next to the tiger was

437
00:16:48,433 --> 00:16:49,566
was you know

438
00:16:49,566 --> 00:16:50,600
thank god he

439
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,200
he survived that photoshoot because that would have

440
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,400
that would have changed everything

441
00:16:55,033 --> 00:16:56,500
we wouldn't be talking right now

442
00:16:56,633 --> 00:16:57,433
but um

443
00:16:57,900 --> 00:16:59,033
no it was uh

444
00:16:59,033 --> 00:17:01,600
I ended up going back and getting my journalism degree

445
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,700
at Columbia University

446
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:03,900
while I was at Sports Illustrated

447
00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:06,966
and I got hired at Golf Digest at the age of 29

448
00:17:06,966 --> 00:17:08,700
as the director of photography

449
00:17:09,133 --> 00:17:12,400
uh for both Golf World and Golf Digest magazines

450
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:13,333
and uh

451
00:17:13,433 --> 00:17:16,033
got my writing degree in 2003

452
00:17:16,033 --> 00:17:16,266
and then

453
00:17:16,266 --> 00:17:20,000
ultimately started writing for Golf Digest in 2006

454
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,300
2007 travel writing

455
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:23,966
and then I've you know I've

456
00:17:23,966 --> 00:17:28,300
I've been probably traveling 100 to 200 days a year

457
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:30,666
for the last 25 to 30 years

458
00:17:30,666 --> 00:17:34,666
because of this game because of I'm chasing this game

459
00:17:34,666 --> 00:17:38,066
so the amount of courses I've been able to see and play

460
00:17:38,066 --> 00:17:39,466
and the people I've been able to meet

461
00:17:39,466 --> 00:17:40,833
and the experiences I've had

462
00:17:40,833 --> 00:17:44,500
that all is just one big bundle of stuff that I

463
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:46,066
I can't imagine you know

464
00:17:46,066 --> 00:17:48,666
life without it and it's all because of the game golf

465
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,033
when was your um

466
00:17:51,033 --> 00:17:53,866
the moment the aha moment for golf course architecture

467
00:17:55,033 --> 00:17:56,800
that's a really good question uh

468
00:17:57,033 --> 00:17:58,966
because uh

469
00:17:59,366 --> 00:18:01,666
probably like most people

470
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,200
with the exception being people who've

471
00:18:04,366 --> 00:18:06,900
you know become architects or whatever I

472
00:18:06,966 --> 00:18:08,900
I didn't have that as a kid

473
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:09,900
we we're obviously

474
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,433
the beautiful thing about architecture is it's there

475
00:18:12,433 --> 00:18:13,633
and we're consuming it

476
00:18:13,633 --> 00:18:15,666
in most cases without even knowing it right

477
00:18:15,666 --> 00:18:18,466
yeah so that's what I've Learned now

478
00:18:18,466 --> 00:18:21,400
but at the time you like holes

479
00:18:21,466 --> 00:18:24,200
shots work for your eye and don't work for your eye

480
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,566
these are compelling holes

481
00:18:25,566 --> 00:18:26,833
you're thinking about the hole

482
00:18:26,833 --> 00:18:28,900
before you even play the course

483
00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:30,200
what's that why is that

484
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,066
oh that's architecture

485
00:18:31,066 --> 00:18:32,100
but you don't know it at the time

486
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:33,366
you're just thinking about it

487
00:18:33,666 --> 00:18:37,500
I think if I'm I think

488
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,866
you know playing the Old Course for the first time

489
00:18:40,866 --> 00:18:43,233
I remember playing and going what

490
00:18:43,233 --> 00:18:45,700
this is this is the old court

491
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:47,666
you know seems pretty flat

492
00:18:47,966 --> 00:18:49,000
seems you know

493
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,600
like what you know

494
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:51,766
you over the course

495
00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:53,000
you have a lot of blind shots

496
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,066
you don't exactly know what's going on

497
00:18:55,066 --> 00:18:56,800
you certainly don't at that time

498
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,966
I didn't understand or appreciate Old Tom Morris

499
00:18:59,966 --> 00:19:01,633
or the history of the Old Course

500
00:19:01,633 --> 00:19:02,166
or home

501
00:19:02,166 --> 00:19:04,200
I didn't even know what home of golf really meant

502
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,866
I knew you wanted to play Saint Andrews

503
00:19:05,866 --> 00:19:07,233
but to me

504
00:19:07,233 --> 00:19:10,466
Pebble Beach was probably way more compelling and

505
00:19:10,466 --> 00:19:13,933
and interesting cause I'd grown up in North California

506
00:19:14,233 --> 00:19:15,066
I gotta say

507
00:19:15,066 --> 00:19:17,966
probably playing Pebble Beach for the first time

508
00:19:17,966 --> 00:19:21,366
which was a graduation of high school

509
00:19:23,233 --> 00:19:25,633
my dad took me down and we played Pebble Beach

510
00:19:25,633 --> 00:19:28,966
Spyglass and Spanish Bay in one little trip

511
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:29,700
and I

512
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:34,633
and I think standing on the 7th tee of Pebble Beach

513
00:19:34,633 --> 00:19:36,566
and playing that golf hole

514
00:19:36,566 --> 00:19:37,700
where you're you know

515
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:39,200
and again did

516
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,600
was that an aha moment of like

517
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,166
oh wow

518
00:19:41,166 --> 00:19:43,033
this is architect that was an aha moment of

519
00:19:43,033 --> 00:19:44,600
oh my god this is so different

520
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,633
you know in the seven

521
00:19:45,633 --> 00:19:46,900
eight nine

522
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:50,133
10 that stretch as you're

523
00:19:50,466 --> 00:19:53,066
as you're managing you know

524
00:19:53,066 --> 00:19:54,100
oh hit it to there

525
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:55,700
and then you gotta go over this cliff

526
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:57,000
to get to the eighth green

527
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,433
that I certainly that was an aha moment of

528
00:20:00,433 --> 00:20:03,266
this is very different than anything I've ever seen

529
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,166
ever um

530
00:20:05,466 --> 00:20:07,200
probably playing the Old Course

531
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,833
the second or third time and and

532
00:20:09,833 --> 00:20:10,966
and learning you know

533
00:20:10,966 --> 00:20:12,600
reading more about the game

534
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,600
understanding more about the game

535
00:20:16,066 --> 00:20:19,033
and starting that intersection between oh

536
00:20:19,033 --> 00:20:21,500
this is special why is it special

537
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:22,633
oh this is the

538
00:20:22,633 --> 00:20:23,433
you know uh

539
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:25,500
coming home you know

540
00:20:26,866 --> 00:20:30,066
concept of template holes certainly had no made no

541
00:20:30,066 --> 00:20:31,633
you know I had no idea what that was

542
00:20:31,633 --> 00:20:36,200
but you know double greens drivable par fours uh

543
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,700
North Berwick I remember playing North Berwick

544
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:40,500
you know and

545
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:42,300
and the the hole in which oh

546
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:43,900
there's the rock walls

547
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:45,766
outcroppings and you gotta hit it over there

548
00:20:45,766 --> 00:20:51,666
you know that now it starts coming together as what a

549
00:20:51,666 --> 00:20:53,833
oh this is a journey you're starting here

550
00:20:53,833 --> 00:20:55,966
you're ending here and there's a lot in between

551
00:20:55,966 --> 00:20:57,900
a routing of a golf course

552
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:58,900
you know uh

553
00:20:59,366 --> 00:21:01,600
the nuanced of you don't go at the pin

554
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,600
you hit it over here and try to get it to go to the pin

555
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,966
that all started happening as I started traveling

556
00:21:07,966 --> 00:21:10,566
as I started listening and as I started learning

557
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,200
while you're doing that process

558
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,666
what would you recommend to someone that would start

559
00:21:14,666 --> 00:21:17,166
it would start on that process how would you get them

560
00:21:18,566 --> 00:21:24,600
think it is about it is about asking yourself

561
00:21:25,966 --> 00:21:28,566
what do you like and why

562
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:32,766
you know like almost putting it back on yourself to say

563
00:21:32,766 --> 00:21:34,000
OK what are your

564
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:34,966
what are your

565
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,100
what are your top 10 courses you've played

566
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:40,133
why what are your top 10 holes you've played

567
00:21:40,166 --> 00:21:43,833
why so almost work backwards because again

568
00:21:43,833 --> 00:21:45,600
unless you want to read you know

569
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,866
Scott Scotland's Gift or or

570
00:21:47,866 --> 00:21:50,066
you know read a couple of the

571
00:21:50,066 --> 00:21:54,666
of the kind of the original books about architecture

572
00:21:54,666 --> 00:21:57,533
which that's that's pretty heavy nerdy

573
00:21:57,666 --> 00:22:02,533
that's a real huge dose of of nerd right of education

574
00:22:02,666 --> 00:22:03,900
so I would almost

575
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,166
the part of the fun of it is discovering architecture

576
00:22:09,366 --> 00:22:11,466
discovering the to me

577
00:22:11,466 --> 00:22:14,466
the big part of the fun of it is discovering

578
00:22:15,833 --> 00:22:20,066
what it is that you like and then why you like it

579
00:22:20,066 --> 00:22:21,566
so I would I you know

580
00:22:21,566 --> 00:22:25,733
my suggestion is based a lot on my experience

581
00:22:25,766 --> 00:22:27,633
going back to rankings and you

582
00:22:27,633 --> 00:22:29,100
the subjectivity of it all

583
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:32,833
to me it's asking yourself get around

584
00:22:32,833 --> 00:22:34,133
first of all move around

585
00:22:34,433 --> 00:22:39,533
play around play a lot of stuff and then ask yourself

586
00:22:40,066 --> 00:22:42,766
what do you like and why do you like it

587
00:22:42,766 --> 00:22:46,700
and then start trying to learn the specifics and who

588
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:49,533
you know simply asking who built this golf course

589
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:51,666
what year was it built

590
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:55,566
uh has it has there been modifications and changes

591
00:22:55,566 --> 00:22:58,000
who did that and why um

592
00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:00,033
that education you know

593
00:23:00,033 --> 00:23:02,000
it's very helpful it's something that's

594
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,066
I know in America

595
00:23:03,066 --> 00:23:05,566
there's a lot of pride in who built their golf course

596
00:23:05,566 --> 00:23:07,300
you know there's a lot of pride in the architect

597
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:10,000
comparatively to probably over here

598
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:12,033
obviously there's people like Old Tom

599
00:23:12,033 --> 00:23:14,033
and Harry Colt that stand out

600
00:23:14,033 --> 00:23:17,966
but I'd say the majority of Harry Cult members would

601
00:23:17,966 --> 00:23:20,366
would know that Harry Cult existed and did their stuff

602
00:23:20,366 --> 00:23:22,766
but doesn't really know much about who he was

603
00:23:22,766 --> 00:23:24,966
why he was so good yeah

604
00:23:24,966 --> 00:23:25,233
and and

605
00:23:25,233 --> 00:23:28,466
and that's probably also because a lot of people

606
00:23:28,466 --> 00:23:29,833
and correct me if I'm wrong

607
00:23:29,833 --> 00:23:31,800
but a lot of people over there

608
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,366
tend to play their home course

609
00:23:34,366 --> 00:23:35,600
for the most part right

610
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,366
you know that and unless you're

611
00:23:37,366 --> 00:23:40,600
unless you're unless you're wandering around

612
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:44,466
and understanding why Harry Colt was so great

613
00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:47,500
then you would almost take Harry Colt for granted if

614
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,200
if you're going out and playing

615
00:23:49,266 --> 00:23:51,400
you know Lahinch every day

616
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,966
uh you're not really caring the

617
00:23:53,966 --> 00:23:56,866
about all the different architects

618
00:23:56,866 --> 00:23:59,266
who have come along and touched that golf course

619
00:23:59,466 --> 00:24:01,866
necessarily because it's your

620
00:24:01,866 --> 00:24:03,400
it's your home course you just

621
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,833
you know it you love it

622
00:24:04,833 --> 00:24:07,833
you play it and maybe you go play one down the road

623
00:24:07,833 --> 00:24:09,266
but even in Ireland

624
00:24:09,266 --> 00:24:11,433
I've played a lot of places in Ireland and I go

625
00:24:11,433 --> 00:24:11,900
and I go oh

626
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,000
I love this course with the Irish

627
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,366
they go I haven't even played that

628
00:24:15,366 --> 00:24:17,033
I haven't I haven't been down to what I've

629
00:24:17,033 --> 00:24:18,033
I've never been down to you know

630
00:24:18,033 --> 00:24:21,466
a five hour drive for someone who's in Ireland is

631
00:24:21,466 --> 00:24:23,566
it's not why why

632
00:24:23,566 --> 00:24:24,866
why are we gonna go do that

633
00:24:24,866 --> 00:24:27,066
I we got the hinch and

634
00:24:27,066 --> 00:24:28,200
you know Charlie and

635
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:29,433
you know we're

636
00:24:29,433 --> 00:24:30,300
we're right here we

637
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:31,366
you know we got doonbeg

638
00:24:31,366 --> 00:24:32,066
we're we're good

639
00:24:32,066 --> 00:24:33,566
yeah um

640
00:24:33,566 --> 00:24:36,366
so I think there's also just a

641
00:24:37,066 --> 00:24:40,966
a human nature to take things for granted and just say

642
00:24:40,966 --> 00:24:42,000
you know we got

643
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,666
why would you go anywhere you're

644
00:24:43,666 --> 00:24:44,933
you're near North Berwick

645
00:24:45,033 --> 00:24:48,566
how you've got five of like the top 100 within

646
00:24:48,566 --> 00:24:49,600
you know an hour

647
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,400
hour and a half of you yeah

648
00:24:51,433 --> 00:24:54,600
very fortunate and I've

649
00:24:54,633 --> 00:24:56,000
to be honest with you it

650
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,166
I didn't really leave for a long time

651
00:24:58,166 --> 00:25:03,566
but then and I've saw the error of my ways yeah

652
00:25:03,566 --> 00:25:04,366
uh

653
00:25:04,966 --> 00:25:07,466
do you know one thing I've always wondered is

654
00:25:07,466 --> 00:25:09,933
why Americans make such good golf travelers

655
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:12,266
why are they the curious Munch

656
00:25:12,266 --> 00:25:14,366
I wish more Americans traveled more

657
00:25:14,366 --> 00:25:16,066
to be honest with you I think that's a big

658
00:25:16,066 --> 00:25:18,433
fundamental issue with what's going on in our country

659
00:25:18,433 --> 00:25:19,433
right now is we're don't

660
00:25:19,433 --> 00:25:20,666
I can't get a tea time already

661
00:25:20,666 --> 00:25:22,000
stop it Matt come on

662
00:25:25,266 --> 00:25:26,700
tap the brakes on that

663
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,066
um I can only imagine yeah

664
00:25:30,066 --> 00:25:31,800
you probably don't like that the

665
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,800
the curious American travelers

666
00:25:33,866 --> 00:25:34,233
oh no

667
00:25:34,233 --> 00:25:35,900
but it's great yeah

668
00:25:35,966 --> 00:25:36,966
no I uh

669
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:39,700
I don't know I don't know the answer to that question

670
00:25:40,766 --> 00:25:41,900
I think

671
00:25:42,766 --> 00:25:46,066
you know we live in a big country and there's a lot of

672
00:25:46,166 --> 00:25:46,966
you know

673
00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:50,666
a lot of incredible stuff that's come up in our country

674
00:25:51,066 --> 00:25:53,100
that I think once you get

675
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:55,500
once you get going and you start

676
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,700
you start hunting these

677
00:25:58,300 --> 00:26:01,166
these these lists or these rankings

678
00:26:01,166 --> 00:26:03,066
and you start thinking to yourself oh

679
00:26:03,066 --> 00:26:04,666
I've done that I've done that

680
00:26:04,666 --> 00:26:08,200
I've done that but I keep hearing that if I have

681
00:26:08,266 --> 00:26:11,100
if I haven't done this then I haven't done it right

682
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:12,466
so yeah then it's like oh

683
00:26:12,466 --> 00:26:13,600
you gotta go that no

684
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:13,800
no no

685
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,533
you gotta go that so then it's like

686
00:26:15,766 --> 00:26:17,866
I think social media has been a big part of that

687
00:26:17,866 --> 00:26:19,900
I think the dynamics of current

688
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,066
media have been a big part of that

689
00:26:22,266 --> 00:26:24,800
uh I think golf's uh

690
00:26:25,266 --> 00:26:26,900
golf's you know

691
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:28,433
level of interest and the

692
00:26:28,433 --> 00:26:30,700
and the popularity of the game

693
00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:33,566
has LED to a lot of where we're at

694
00:26:33,766 --> 00:26:37,600
there's an economic aspect to all of this

695
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,300
being able to afford it now

696
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:39,766
I think

697
00:26:39,766 --> 00:26:42,566
we're probably at some form of a tipping point there

698
00:26:42,566 --> 00:26:46,866
as it relates to economics and and

699
00:26:46,866 --> 00:26:48,333
and you know

700
00:26:49,833 --> 00:26:51,433
you know the availability

701
00:26:51,433 --> 00:26:53,066
the accessibility uh

702
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:55,833
to your point can't get a tee time

703
00:26:55,833 --> 00:26:57,200
well you know

704
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,966
uh that's always

705
00:26:58,966 --> 00:27:00,433
that's always a potential issue

706
00:27:00,433 --> 00:27:02,166
so this episode is brought to you

707
00:27:02,166 --> 00:27:03,666
by the Lockhart Travel Club

708
00:27:03,966 --> 00:27:06,266
we believe golf is more than a game

709
00:27:06,366 --> 00:27:08,300
it's a journey a journey

710
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:11,433
we've made across 34 of the world's top 100 courses

711
00:27:11,433 --> 00:27:14,400
last year and now is your turn

712
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,033
we create

713
00:27:16,033 --> 00:27:18,800
bespoke travel experiences for passionate golfers

714
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,633
who expect nothing but the best

715
00:27:20,633 --> 00:27:21,833
membership is limited

716
00:27:21,833 --> 00:27:25,000
so join us at Locker Travel club.com

717
00:27:25,866 --> 00:27:27,200
the fact that

718
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,600
there's concentration of great golf across America

719
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,800
right all across America

720
00:27:31,866 --> 00:27:32,800
and then

721
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,866
there's a vast areas of America that don't have a

722
00:27:37,866 --> 00:27:39,600
as a Bandon Dunes

723
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,766
or a National Golf Links or whatever nearby

724
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:44,400
so

725
00:27:44,966 --> 00:27:46,200
being able to get on a plane

726
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,400
and just get to one of these locations

727
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,666
and the encouragement of that within America helps

728
00:27:52,066 --> 00:27:54,666
again I think buddies trips

729
00:27:55,066 --> 00:28:02,700
utilizing the game as the venue for reunions

730
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:10,533
or special events oh my dad's 50th my 50th

731
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,500
my buddy's 50th

732
00:28:13,666 --> 00:28:14,966
we have a group from college

733
00:28:14,966 --> 00:28:16,500
who haven't gotten together

734
00:28:16,566 --> 00:28:19,566
we need a we need an opportunity and a venue

735
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,266
and an experience

736
00:28:21,266 --> 00:28:24,666
that is gonna lend itself to us getting together

737
00:28:24,833 --> 00:28:27,500
camaraderie a little competition

738
00:28:28,033 --> 00:28:33,100
continuity to the group for leads to eight leads to

739
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:34,766
then let's add four more guy oh

740
00:28:34,766 --> 00:28:37,766
I got a buddy who would love to come here so they

741
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,733
the development of the buddy's trip and uh

742
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,666
going back to the uh the popular you know

743
00:28:46,666 --> 00:28:47,600
in this in this

744
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,233
and the intersection of the popularity of the game uh

745
00:28:51,233 --> 00:28:53,433
the cool factor with Tiger Woods

746
00:28:53,433 --> 00:28:54,800
all these other celebrities

747
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,300
athletes and and interesting people coming to the game

748
00:28:58,733 --> 00:29:00,033
I think that's also

749
00:29:00,033 --> 00:29:04,066
this has been a massive groundswell of

750
00:29:04,866 --> 00:29:06,466
of growth

751
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:10,800
an evolution of the game and how the game is consumed

752
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,533
and who's consuming the game

753
00:29:12,566 --> 00:29:16,966
then layer in now women kids

754
00:29:17,466 --> 00:29:18,233
uh you know

755
00:29:18,233 --> 00:29:20,766
things like first tee but also

756
00:29:20,766 --> 00:29:24,300
also youth on course affordability and accessibility

757
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,700
yeah stay you know

758
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:27,200
staying at the at at

759
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,900
at the peak of a lot of these organizations

760
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:32,733
of how can we make sure this is

761
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,266
this does keep growing

762
00:29:34,266 --> 00:29:36,666
I mean that's all been happening um

763
00:29:38,366 --> 00:29:40,666
whether we think about it or know it

764
00:29:40,666 --> 00:29:42,566
or write about it or cover it

765
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,866
that's that's been happening

766
00:29:43,866 --> 00:29:46,233
I have been writing about it I have been covering it

767
00:29:46,233 --> 00:29:48,333
I have been watching it uh

768
00:29:48,566 --> 00:29:51,400
because I've been doing it since 1995

769
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,866
and if you go back to 1995 or Milwaukee Open of 1996

770
00:29:56,033 --> 00:29:57,666
and you wanna talk about a

771
00:29:57,666 --> 00:29:59,300
a you know a

772
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:02,633
a sort of a flag in the ground

773
00:30:02,633 --> 00:30:06,800
that's where that's where this latest run starts

774
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,800
now prior to that

775
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,100
it was Arnold Palmer

776
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:12,433
and prior to that it was Ben Hogan and Byron Nelson

777
00:30:12,433 --> 00:30:14,400
you know prior to that it was Bobby Jones

778
00:30:14,766 --> 00:30:17,133
prior to that it was you know

779
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,066
they go back to the old Tom Morris

780
00:30:19,066 --> 00:30:20,000
you know uh

781
00:30:20,266 --> 00:30:23,800
1800s so there's been many moments like this

782
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,966
but I think we're on a incredible run

783
00:30:26,966 --> 00:30:29,266
Tiger just turned 50 um

784
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,400
you know

785
00:30:31,066 --> 00:30:32,600
what's next it's a weird one

786
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,800
because I see it from my side of the pond right

787
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,800
and I've seen it from the links perspective

788
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,266
where I've watched very few

789
00:30:41,566 --> 00:30:42,900
small groups of Americans

790
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:44,433
be able to turn up at North Berkeley

791
00:30:44,433 --> 00:30:45,666
or Gallen or wherever

792
00:30:45,666 --> 00:30:46,766
and just knock on the door

793
00:30:46,766 --> 00:30:48,366
and come onto the golf course

794
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:52,633
ask for tea time to know being sold out in one minute

795
00:30:52,633 --> 00:30:53,700
if you look like I said

796
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:55,066
if you look at something oh

797
00:30:55,066 --> 00:30:58,366
30 years ago it was this and today it's

798
00:30:58,366 --> 00:31:00,300
it's not it's this

799
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,566
it's crazy to think about what

800
00:31:04,566 --> 00:31:06,466
how everything has changed

801
00:31:06,633 --> 00:31:10,400
but for me or or a lot of people out there

802
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,700
who have been around the game and

803
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:15,100
and cut studying it and and covering it

804
00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:19,266
very intimately for for the last three decades

805
00:31:20,366 --> 00:31:21,466
we've been you know

806
00:31:21,466 --> 00:31:27,100
we have been plotting the dots as we go along

807
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,666
and there's been there's been some humps and bumps

808
00:31:30,666 --> 00:31:32,533
certainly as it relates to America

809
00:31:32,566 --> 00:31:36,333
and I know over there as well in getting here

810
00:31:36,866 --> 00:31:37,666
but you know

811
00:31:37,666 --> 00:31:39,366
cause we we built too much

812
00:31:39,366 --> 00:31:42,100
built too hard too generic

813
00:31:42,233 --> 00:31:44,600
you know if you go Jack Nicklaus

814
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,533
Arnold Palmer and Gary Player all

815
00:31:47,766 --> 00:31:49,400
you know bonafide champions

816
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,966
and on a Mount Rushmore of their own as players

817
00:31:53,266 --> 00:31:55,533
they are not on there as architects

818
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,100
no but they built a combined

819
00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:01,400
almost 12 golf courses between three of them

820
00:32:01,966 --> 00:32:03,366
that have their name on it

821
00:32:03,633 --> 00:32:06,300
but was that just a business for them

822
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:08,366
was that a conveyor belt of

823
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:12,500
of opportunity for them were they in the tractor

824
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:13,833
no were they building anything

825
00:32:13,833 --> 00:32:14,033
no

826
00:32:14,033 --> 00:32:16,400
they had a whole slew of different people building it

827
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,533
for them we don't even know their names

828
00:32:18,666 --> 00:32:20,033
we don't even know who they are

829
00:32:20,033 --> 00:32:22,266
or what they did or what their background was

830
00:32:22,266 --> 00:32:24,166
you know with their exceptions

831
00:32:24,166 --> 00:32:28,800
but for the most part give me a top 100 list

832
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:30,633
and tell me how many

833
00:32:30,633 --> 00:32:33,166
number of courses that those guys built

834
00:32:33,166 --> 00:32:34,500
that are on those lists

835
00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:36,100
uh

836
00:32:36,266 --> 00:32:38,500
you know the percentage is small

837
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,666
versus the Tom Doeks and the Cork crunchers

838
00:32:41,666 --> 00:32:43,800
and the David kids and the Gil Hanses

839
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,066
or the other you know

840
00:32:45,066 --> 00:32:46,600
the golden age uh

841
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,800
the golden era architects who built

842
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,800
not a lot of courses but the ones that they built were

843
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,200
were really good you know

844
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,000
so

845
00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:55,566
uh we had some

846
00:32:55,566 --> 00:32:57,566
we had some mistakes along the way

847
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:59,766
uh but uh

848
00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:03,500
we are constantly fixing tweaking

849
00:33:04,166 --> 00:33:06,266
restoring renovating

850
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,100
reimagining and learning

851
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:11,566
what do you think makes a good renovation

852
00:33:11,566 --> 00:33:12,600
a good project

853
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,766
because you cut do a lot of covering of these things

854
00:33:14,766 --> 00:33:16,800
what do you think is the most important things

855
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,633
there's a lot of a lot of levels to that

856
00:33:18,633 --> 00:33:19,666
but coming off a post

857
00:33:19,666 --> 00:33:23,533
a tempo where you take an Alister Mackenzie original

858
00:33:23,666 --> 00:33:26,566
uh back in the late 20s and early 30s

859
00:33:27,166 --> 00:33:32,500
and you take Mackenzie and why he matters and

860
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,233
you know and

861
00:33:34,233 --> 00:33:36,200
and you you put it

862
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,000
you put that in a semi private essentially public

863
00:33:40,566 --> 00:33:43,000
uh venue in Santa Cruz

864
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,800
and you learn about how

865
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,866
and why that golf course mattered

866
00:33:49,866 --> 00:33:50,800
in the beginning

867
00:33:51,633 --> 00:33:53,000
you know Marion Hollins

868
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,900
Marion Hollins and Mackenzie's relationship

869
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:59,400
here's a woman in the 30s who was then

870
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,100
you know partnering with with one of these

871
00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:04,066
these mega architects

872
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,900
and had relationships with people like Bobby Jones and

873
00:34:08,966 --> 00:34:09,766
uh you know

874
00:34:09,766 --> 00:34:13,800
you got you got Ben Hogan and you got these people

875
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,200
you know Augusta National and you know

876
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,400
the building of Augusta National

877
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,166
so you you

878
00:34:19,166 --> 00:34:20,266
it all that matters right

879
00:34:20,266 --> 00:34:21,933
then you take Pasa Tiempo

880
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:23,700
and you take these 18 greens

881
00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:25,833
and what they were known for in this golf course

882
00:34:25,833 --> 00:34:27,700
and then you learn about how

883
00:34:27,700 --> 00:34:33,966
and why it lost its way with sand splash and washouts

884
00:34:33,966 --> 00:34:34,900
and you know

885
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:36,766
runoff and uh

886
00:34:36,833 --> 00:34:37,633
you know

887
00:34:38,166 --> 00:34:40,600
the way the mowing patterns and just

888
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,966
you learn about agronomy in general and you go really

889
00:34:43,966 --> 00:34:47,333
you want to talk about geeking out and you go down

890
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,466
you literally go down in the ground

891
00:34:50,566 --> 00:34:52,833
which is going down in history

892
00:34:52,833 --> 00:34:54,966
which is going back to the past

893
00:34:55,533 --> 00:34:57,200
and then you take a guy like Jim Erbina

894
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,500
who's well versed and educated about intent

895
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:02,966
of Mackenzie and golf

896
00:35:02,966 --> 00:35:05,400
and well read he can quote you

897
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,166
you know from 10 different books right now and he can

898
00:35:09,166 --> 00:35:11,433
you know his books are all marked up and quoted

899
00:35:11,433 --> 00:35:16,133
and so you take him and you take a long lasting history

900
00:35:16,366 --> 00:35:19,566
uh working on the restoration of the golf course

901
00:35:19,566 --> 00:35:21,400
from tee up to the green

902
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,200
but not touching the greens with Tom Doak

903
00:35:24,433 --> 00:35:25,633
uh obviously he's

904
00:35:25,633 --> 00:35:28,200
you know very well educated and understands the

905
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,566
the intent and nuance of architecture

906
00:35:30,866 --> 00:35:33,933
and you give Urbina the chance to then

907
00:35:34,366 --> 00:35:37,700
and the resources to go back and peel that back

908
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:39,000
very thoughtfully

909
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:40,566
with with

910
00:35:40,566 --> 00:35:41,900
with the with the

911
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:43,433
with the right kind of intent

912
00:35:43,433 --> 00:35:45,066
with the right kind of membership

913
00:35:45,066 --> 00:35:46,266
you know that they that

914
00:35:46,366 --> 00:35:49,566
you know they call them shareholders

915
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:51,266
uh these people that are

916
00:35:51,266 --> 00:35:54,866
literally have a vested interest in their club

917
00:35:55,433 --> 00:35:56,300
and you say okay

918
00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:58,800
we're gonna do this and we're gonna do it right

919
00:35:58,800 --> 00:35:59,966
and then you take you know

920
00:35:59,966 --> 00:36:01,666
Justin Mandon who's the superintendent

921
00:36:01,666 --> 00:36:03,300
the head of agronomy there

922
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:05,600
and he's he's

923
00:36:05,966 --> 00:36:07,066
he's a genius right

924
00:36:07,066 --> 00:36:10,766
he's a prodigy as it relates to uh grass

925
00:36:10,766 --> 00:36:13,366
grass and agronomy and the study of it all and

926
00:36:13,366 --> 00:36:14,866
and his own club right

927
00:36:14,866 --> 00:36:16,666
he knows it like the back of his hand

928
00:36:16,666 --> 00:36:19,033
so you take and then you take earth sculptures

929
00:36:19,033 --> 00:36:20,766
which is a well versed company

930
00:36:20,766 --> 00:36:22,300
as it relates to Mackenzie

931
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:24,733
and you put all of these pieces together

932
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,366
and we I

933
00:36:26,366 --> 00:36:29,633
we were we documented this in a two part docu series

934
00:36:29,633 --> 00:36:32,266
it's probably 60 minutes in length total

935
00:36:32,266 --> 00:36:34,666
and we did it through the lens of the 16th green

936
00:36:34,666 --> 00:36:38,666
a four tiered green that was built on like this

937
00:36:38,766 --> 00:36:39,600
probably a piece of land

938
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,033
that not many people can actually make into a green

939
00:36:42,033 --> 00:36:44,466
and it becomes one of the most famous greens

940
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,166
and you watch them restore not only that

941
00:36:48,166 --> 00:36:52,333
but all the other 18 greens at a place like Passa Tempo

942
00:36:52,366 --> 00:36:55,166
and that to me is a meaningful restoration

943
00:36:55,166 --> 00:36:57,000
Oakland Hills meaningful restore

944
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,166
Pinehurst No. 2

945
00:36:58,166 --> 00:36:59,933
very meaningful restoration

946
00:36:59,966 --> 00:37:03,166
Donald Ross crown jewel lost its way

947
00:37:03,166 --> 00:37:06,966
Rees Jones different vision the

948
00:37:06,966 --> 00:37:09,200
the Gaul and the hot spot to say

949
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,400
I'm gonna change Donald Ross

950
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,200
yeah

951
00:37:12,266 --> 00:37:12,866
and you know

952
00:37:12,866 --> 00:37:14,466
and then you're chasing us opens

953
00:37:14,466 --> 00:37:15,200
but for then

954
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,666
the Pinehurst leadership and the Deadman family and

955
00:37:19,666 --> 00:37:22,166
and Don Paget uh

956
00:37:22,666 --> 00:37:25,900
Tom Pasche who's there now to this day to say

957
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:28,566
we're taking No. 2 back to where it belongs

958
00:37:28,566 --> 00:37:30,500
wow they're in the middle of hosting us

959
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,600
opens in the middle of that process to say

960
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,500
hold on earth record scratch

961
00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:37,966
we're going back Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw

962
00:37:37,966 --> 00:37:40,566
thoughtfully intellectually

963
00:37:40,866 --> 00:37:43,666
um creatively going back

964
00:37:43,666 --> 00:37:45,900
finding the centerline irrigation

965
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:47,000
this is intent

966
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,266
this is what it should look like and how it should play

967
00:37:50,266 --> 00:37:51,500
for the most part

968
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,866
someone in town coming up to Cork Ranch on

969
00:37:53,866 --> 00:37:55,500
don't screw this up you know

970
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:58,066
as this course goes this town goes

971
00:37:58,066 --> 00:37:59,133
the pressure

972
00:37:59,700 --> 00:38:00,900
um those

973
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:03,866
those are those are very meaningful restorations

974
00:38:03,866 --> 00:38:05,900
and renovations that um

975
00:38:06,433 --> 00:38:09,200
that matter in the big scheme of things and

976
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,833
and gives us opportunity to be educated that that

977
00:38:11,833 --> 00:38:14,266
that gives us the outsiders

978
00:38:14,366 --> 00:38:18,600
an opportunity to see and learn about that was then

979
00:38:18,633 --> 00:38:21,566
then it became this and it's going back to that

980
00:38:21,566 --> 00:38:24,900
and wow that was successful is

981
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:26,066
what's the difference between

982
00:38:26,066 --> 00:38:27,233
what do you think the difference is

983
00:38:27,233 --> 00:38:29,200
between a renovation and a restoration

984
00:38:30,166 --> 00:38:30,400
well

985
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,600
restoration is restoring it back to its original intent

986
00:38:34,833 --> 00:38:36,766
a renovation is I think

987
00:38:36,766 --> 00:38:40,600
a pivot or an audible on what it was to what it becomes

988
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,000
how different is the approach

989
00:38:43,166 --> 00:38:45,000
well I think in a restoration

990
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,233
you're going back and utilizing black and whites

991
00:38:48,233 --> 00:38:51,066
and images and information and and

992
00:38:51,066 --> 00:38:53,866
and and what's in books and and

993
00:38:53,866 --> 00:38:54,666
and uh

994
00:38:54,766 --> 00:38:56,600
catalogues and notebooks and

995
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,600
you know what I mean and you're

996
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,500
you're piecing that together drawings

997
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:05,100
um a renovation is kind of disregarding all of that

998
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:08,233
and you're saying I'm gonna redo

999
00:39:08,233 --> 00:39:09,000
I mean I'm gonna

1000
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,166
I'm gonna take this section

1001
00:39:10,166 --> 00:39:11,100
I'm gonna take the whole thing

1002
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:12,833
and I'm gonna do something totally different

1003
00:39:12,833 --> 00:39:16,300
do you think that one's better than the other

1004
00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:18,933
or do you think it's all to do with place and location

1005
00:39:19,066 --> 00:39:20,100
I I think it's

1006
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:21,566
it's case per case

1007
00:39:22,233 --> 00:39:25,900
who do you think who's the best each currently alive

1008
00:39:26,033 --> 00:39:27,100
I think there are

1009
00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:29,500
I think there are variations to that too

1010
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:33,100
you know Bill and Ben don't do a lot of restorations

1011
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:34,766
I think uh

1012
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,866
you know for the most part

1013
00:39:35,866 --> 00:39:37,866
they're only doing so many things

1014
00:39:37,866 --> 00:39:39,166
so what they're going to do is

1015
00:39:39,166 --> 00:39:40,466
probably build their own thing

1016
00:39:40,466 --> 00:39:42,166
but in the case of pioneers No. 2

1017
00:39:42,166 --> 00:39:44,066
that was very intriguing to them

1018
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:47,566
Bill Core grew up playing pioneers not far away from

1019
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:49,900
from pioneers No. 2 grew up playing that

1020
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:53,033
has a great appreciation and reverence for Donald Ross

1021
00:39:53,033 --> 00:39:55,166
himself so um

1022
00:39:55,466 --> 00:39:58,066
in their mind that's not their course

1023
00:39:58,066 --> 00:40:00,800
that's a Donald Ross golf course that they restored

1024
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,766
uh in everybody else's mind

1025
00:40:02,766 --> 00:40:04,633
it's Donald Ross Bill Corey

1026
00:40:04,633 --> 00:40:06,233
Ben Crenshaw anyway you know what I mean

1027
00:40:06,233 --> 00:40:07,966
like but um

1028
00:40:08,566 --> 00:40:10,333
I think uh

1029
00:40:12,233 --> 00:40:14,366
I think Tom Doe obviously can

1030
00:40:14,366 --> 00:40:18,666
can it can do a great restoration and has

1031
00:40:18,666 --> 00:40:21,366
I think Jim Erbina is great at uh

1032
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,133
has done some great restorations um

1033
00:40:24,933 --> 00:40:26,433
and you know

1034
00:40:26,433 --> 00:40:30,600
and and he seems to be a guy who does more restorations

1035
00:40:31,033 --> 00:40:34,766
than original builds he actually hasn't done uh

1036
00:40:34,766 --> 00:40:38,600
you know other than maybe a select group of of

1037
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,366
of of restorations

1038
00:40:40,366 --> 00:40:42,400
David Kid isn't doing a lot of restorations

1039
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,333
Gil Hance

1040
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:47,700
I think is better at restoring than new builds

1041
00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:49,100
to be totally you know

1042
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:53,166
to be totally honest he's done good new courses

1043
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,300
but I think his best work has been his thoughtful

1044
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:01,200
and that's a that's a credit to his thought

1045
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000
and education and information

1046
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,633
and how he interprets that

1047
00:41:05,633 --> 00:41:07,300
cause there's always a little interpretation

1048
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:08,366
on a restoration

1049
00:41:08,366 --> 00:41:12,200
how he interprets that into the finished product is um

1050
00:41:12,866 --> 00:41:14,800
is part of his his superpower

1051
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,233
you've followed all these guys

1052
00:41:16,233 --> 00:41:18,500
you've known them well you've um

1053
00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:21,600
worked with them what separates them

1054
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,033
I I was just thinking about this the other day

1055
00:41:24,033 --> 00:41:27,066
the amount of architects I've been in the dirt with

1056
00:41:27,066 --> 00:41:31,166
watching them actually bring something to life

1057
00:41:31,166 --> 00:41:33,900
is staggering and I find that to be

1058
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,666
one of the greatest gifts I've been given uh

1059
00:41:36,666 --> 00:41:38,566
with what I do and how I've done it

1060
00:41:38,566 --> 00:41:40,833
and what I've been paid to do

1061
00:41:40,833 --> 00:41:42,300
you know for a living

1062
00:41:42,833 --> 00:41:43,633
um

1063
00:41:44,233 --> 00:41:45,266
but I I

1064
00:41:45,266 --> 00:41:50,200
I find them all to be so different and so unique

1065
00:41:50,766 --> 00:41:54,733
um and I find their personalities

1066
00:41:55,366 --> 00:41:57,766
and who they are as people

1067
00:41:57,766 --> 00:41:59,566
ends up actually

1068
00:41:59,766 --> 00:42:03,100
looking and feeling a lot like what they build

1069
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:05,966
OK if that makes any sense

1070
00:42:05,966 --> 00:42:06,966
I I yeah yeah

1071
00:42:06,966 --> 00:42:10,366
Bill Corey and Ben Crenshaw will tell you about

1072
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,333
they are they are genteel

1073
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,000
warm

1074
00:42:14,666 --> 00:42:16,933
kind gracious

1075
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:19,500
gentlemen

1076
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:21,666
that uh

1077
00:42:21,666 --> 00:42:23,233
think about the

1078
00:42:23,233 --> 00:42:26,566
the 30 and 50 yards leading into a green

1079
00:42:26,566 --> 00:42:28,166
as the entrance of

1080
00:42:28,166 --> 00:42:32,433
what it is that you would have as your entrance

1081
00:42:32,433 --> 00:42:34,300
your entryway to your home

1082
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:39,066
and they want that to be warm and welcoming and

1083
00:42:39,266 --> 00:42:40,066
you know

1084
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,366
and I feel like feel like

1085
00:42:42,366 --> 00:42:47,200
if you sit down and have a dinner with Bill and Ben

1086
00:42:48,433 --> 00:42:52,166
and watch how they ask more of you than you can of them

1087
00:42:52,166 --> 00:42:55,000
and they listen to what you say and how you say it

1088
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,566
and they ask about your wife and your kids

1089
00:42:57,566 --> 00:43:00,000
and where you're from and why and

1090
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,233
you know they're just so kind and gracious

1091
00:43:03,233 --> 00:43:05,966
well go play one of their golf courses

1092
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:07,333
it it

1093
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:10,700
they are artists they create art

1094
00:43:11,633 --> 00:43:11,800
they they

1095
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:12,033
they you

1096
00:43:12,033 --> 00:43:14,400
you tend to wanna play their golf courses

1097
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,233
over and over again just like

1098
00:43:16,233 --> 00:43:18,400
you'd wanna sit down and have dinner with them

1099
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,800
over and over again

1100
00:43:20,766 --> 00:43:24,966
David Kid is he's a character and he's charismatic

1101
00:43:24,966 --> 00:43:27,666
and he is interesting and fun

1102
00:43:27,666 --> 00:43:32,100
and constantly creating analogies and metaphors

1103
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:34,966
and talking about things and and

1104
00:43:34,966 --> 00:43:36,800
and if you go play a David golf

1105
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:37,466
kid golf course

1106
00:43:37,466 --> 00:43:40,266
like they're they're full of character

1107
00:43:40,266 --> 00:43:41,300
and they're charismatic

1108
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,166
and they're fun and they're interesting

1109
00:43:43,166 --> 00:43:43,966
and they're

1110
00:43:44,433 --> 00:43:45,566
I they

1111
00:43:45,566 --> 00:43:47,233
they you know I

1112
00:43:47,233 --> 00:43:50,266
I see David in what he builds uh

1113
00:43:50,266 --> 00:43:52,000
Gil Hahn's is very uh

1114
00:43:52,266 --> 00:43:54,266
cerebral and uh

1115
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,400
and very thoughtful very intellectual

1116
00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:00,433
um you know I

1117
00:44:00,433 --> 00:44:03,033
you go play a Gill you sit down at a at a

1118
00:44:03,033 --> 00:44:04,466
a dinner with Gill

1119
00:44:04,666 --> 00:44:07,966
and you're gonna learn a lot about life

1120
00:44:07,966 --> 00:44:09,366
and architecture

1121
00:44:09,366 --> 00:44:11,233
and you go play a Gill hand's golf course

1122
00:44:11,233 --> 00:44:14,900
you're gonna have to you have to be smart and

1123
00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:18,100
and thoughtful in how you play them and how you

1124
00:44:18,233 --> 00:44:19,300
you know you know what I'm saying

1125
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:22,666
like yeah Tom Doak is he's fascinating

1126
00:44:22,666 --> 00:44:24,600
he's brilliant right he's genius

1127
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,566
he's all those things he's well read he's well educated

1128
00:44:27,566 --> 00:44:31,066
he's but you sit down and have a dinner with Tom Doe

1129
00:44:31,066 --> 00:44:32,700
or you spend a little time with Tom Doe

1130
00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:34,000
it's not easy

1131
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,300
it's it the the conversation is it doesn't flow

1132
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,500
it's uh it's choppy

1133
00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:44,733
it's you're pulling stuff out of him

1134
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,966
he's very content sitting in silence and not

1135
00:44:48,966 --> 00:44:52,266
not exchanging having that exchange um

1136
00:44:52,666 --> 00:44:56,100
play a Tom do golf course it's not easy

1137
00:44:56,100 --> 00:44:58,100
it's you gotta pull it out of it

1138
00:44:58,100 --> 00:45:00,300
you got you gotta play it probably more than once

1139
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:00,833
or twice

1140
00:45:00,833 --> 00:45:04,966
or three times before you really start enjoying it

1141
00:45:04,966 --> 00:45:07,366
because you gotta get to know

1142
00:45:07,366 --> 00:45:09,100
you gotta get to know a lot about him

1143
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:12,100
before he opens up and becomes comfortable with

1144
00:45:12,100 --> 00:45:13,500
you know like I yeah

1145
00:45:13,633 --> 00:45:14,733
do you see what I'm saying

1146
00:45:16,833 --> 00:45:19,100
there's a lot to

1147
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:23,666
to say about how each individual personality

1148
00:45:23,666 --> 00:45:26,233
and character of the person

1149
00:45:26,233 --> 00:45:29,033
then becomes the character of their golf

1150
00:45:29,033 --> 00:45:31,133
king Collins are these guys that are

1151
00:45:31,666 --> 00:45:32,766
one guy's really tall

1152
00:45:32,766 --> 00:45:34,266
and one guy's small and they're big

1153
00:45:34,266 --> 00:45:36,100
and they're bold and they're boisterous

1154
00:45:36,100 --> 00:45:38,066
and they're full of you know

1155
00:45:38,066 --> 00:45:39,766
opinions and egos and it you know

1156
00:45:39,766 --> 00:45:41,233
go play one of their golf course like

1157
00:45:41,233 --> 00:45:43,366
holy shit what's going on here

1158
00:45:43,366 --> 00:45:45,666
you know the greens are wild and zany and wacky

1159
00:45:45,666 --> 00:45:47,000
but you know if you like that

1160
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,200
if that's your type of guy

1161
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:49,866
you're probably gonna like their golf course

1162
00:45:49,866 --> 00:45:53,000
what do you think about a King Collins and a door knock

1163
00:45:53,433 --> 00:45:55,666
that was an interesting move I had

1164
00:45:55,666 --> 00:45:58,633
I would I can't wait to see what's

1165
00:45:58,633 --> 00:46:01,000
what's gonna happen here you know what I mean

1166
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,766
like I don't I

1167
00:46:04,033 --> 00:46:05,200
it's interesting

1168
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:07,366
um the way you said it

1169
00:46:07,366 --> 00:46:09,200
if Scottish golf had a golf course

1170
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,033
that would be bold

1171
00:46:10,033 --> 00:46:12,500
and sounds like a King Kong's course

1172
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:14,466
Dornoch probably would be the one I

1173
00:46:14,466 --> 00:46:15,766
I'm intrigued I I

1174
00:46:15,766 --> 00:46:17,400
it's kind of like one of those things where you

1175
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:18,066
maybe not

1176
00:46:18,066 --> 00:46:19,466
a lot of people would have thought of it

1177
00:46:19,466 --> 00:46:21,533
right out of the jump but after you go

1178
00:46:22,166 --> 00:46:23,600
I think that could work well

1179
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,600
that was um

1180
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,200
extremely interesting

1181
00:46:26,300 --> 00:46:28,600
breakdown of the architects and their golf courses

1182
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,666
cause it's not often you hear them

1183
00:46:30,666 --> 00:46:32,400
you everyone compares them all the time

1184
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,100
but you don't hear someone who's worked in

1185
00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:36,300
been around them in the ground

1186
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:37,366
and seen them working

1187
00:46:37,366 --> 00:46:40,066
and spoken to them and done these things with them well

1188
00:46:40,066 --> 00:46:41,100
you're gonna see

1189
00:46:41,100 --> 00:46:43,066
what's really cool is what Bandon Dunes

1190
00:46:43,066 --> 00:46:45,600
you have everybody but Gill there uh

1191
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,666
at Stream Song

1192
00:46:46,666 --> 00:46:50,233
you're gonna have the four modern minimalist that

1193
00:46:50,233 --> 00:46:52,433
that you would consider consider the

1194
00:46:52,433 --> 00:46:55,100
the Mount Rushmore of this generation

1195
00:46:55,466 --> 00:46:57,466
with Bill and Ben building red

1196
00:46:57,466 --> 00:46:59,500
and Tom Doe building blue

1197
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:01,166
and Gil building black

1198
00:47:01,166 --> 00:47:04,800
and now what David kid is going to do on what they're

1199
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,433
you know they haven't released the name of it yet

1200
00:47:07,433 --> 00:47:12,900
but you know the the fourth course at at Stream Song

1201
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:15,700
you will be able to actually go to one place

1202
00:47:16,066 --> 00:47:19,200
and take what it is that I just explained to you

1203
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,266
and maybe try to apply that in

1204
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:25,200
those four experiences and courses

1205
00:47:25,266 --> 00:47:26,666
in which I think

1206
00:47:26,666 --> 00:47:29,666
red is very indicative of who Bill and Ben are

1207
00:47:29,666 --> 00:47:32,200
I think blue is very indicative of who Tom is

1208
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,766
I think black is very indicative of who Gill

1209
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,200
and Jim Wagner are

1210
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,466
and I think in what you're gonna see uh

1211
00:47:38,466 --> 00:47:39,700
with what David has built

1212
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:42,100
that's that's gonna be that's gonna be true true

1213
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:43,900
true there as well

1214
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:45,433
I'm very intrigued'cause I've played

1215
00:47:45,433 --> 00:47:47,900
all the other three no

1216
00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:50,033
obviously played David's cause it's an open jet yeah

1217
00:47:50,033 --> 00:47:52,700
yeah and there is a

1218
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:53,166
the

1219
00:47:53,166 --> 00:47:56,466
Gill's course is just so different to the other two

1220
00:47:56,633 --> 00:47:58,933
you can see similarities between doxen

1221
00:47:59,066 --> 00:48:00,866
but there's also a lot of creativity

1222
00:48:00,866 --> 00:48:02,100
like that part three

1223
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:05,566
that can go from a 75 yards to 175 yards

1224
00:48:05,566 --> 00:48:08,000
depending where the pin and the tee is

1225
00:48:08,433 --> 00:48:10,400
and on Dox course

1226
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,300
and you can see him being creative and a

1227
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:13,433
bit wacky and a bit

1228
00:48:13,433 --> 00:48:17,500
a lot of greens on grade where there's beautiful built

1229
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:19,533
uh golf holes that uh

1230
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:23,200
core Cranchal frames these wonderful shapes to holes

1231
00:48:23,233 --> 00:48:25,566
there's the artistry of the red

1232
00:48:26,066 --> 00:48:29,166
there's the challenge and quirk

1233
00:48:29,166 --> 00:48:32,366
and the dynamics of blue

1234
00:48:32,766 --> 00:48:37,200
and the greens of blue that are direct

1235
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:38,433
you know and you got

1236
00:48:38,433 --> 00:48:41,666
you had the two firms building at the same time

1237
00:48:41,666 --> 00:48:47,466
and I'm doing a docu series right now for Stream Song

1238
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:49,400
on behalf of Kemper Sports

1239
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,466
on the building of Stream Song from the beginning

1240
00:48:53,633 --> 00:48:56,433
well before it was golf until now

1241
00:48:56,433 --> 00:48:59,866
which is gonna be essentially five golf courses if you

1242
00:48:59,866 --> 00:49:02,300
if you count the chain um

1243
00:49:02,466 --> 00:49:05,266
and it's it's gonna be you know

1244
00:49:05,266 --> 00:49:08,633
I'm looking at a lot of what took place you know

1245
00:49:08,633 --> 00:49:11,566
we have a recession not much is being built

1246
00:49:11,633 --> 00:49:13,400
there's not a lot of work going on

1247
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,600
and you have Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw

1248
00:49:15,833 --> 00:49:17,966
shoulder to shoulder with Tom Duke

1249
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,000
and in a piece of property that it

1250
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,000
it tangles within each other

1251
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:23,266
you know

1252
00:49:23,266 --> 00:49:25,500
with within yourself like you literally get confused

1253
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:27,466
you don't know which course you're on

1254
00:49:27,466 --> 00:49:28,466
at any given moment

1255
00:49:28,466 --> 00:49:30,200
you can literally step off one green

1256
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,700
and go to a tee of an

1257
00:49:31,766 --> 00:49:34,000
of the other course without even knowing it

1258
00:49:34,666 --> 00:49:36,866
um and so

1259
00:49:36,866 --> 00:49:42,500
looking at that time of development and golf

1260
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:48,100
and economics of it all on this purified sand

1261
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,233
it's it's really

1262
00:49:50,233 --> 00:49:51,966
it's a fascinating study of

1263
00:49:51,966 --> 00:49:54,366
of those two firms and and those two products

1264
00:49:54,366 --> 00:49:56,700
is it true that Tom Doak designed one on red

1265
00:49:56,700 --> 00:49:57,466
one hole on red

1266
00:49:57,466 --> 00:50:00,600
and the core crusher designed one hole on blue

1267
00:50:01,466 --> 00:50:02,033
you know I

1268
00:50:02,033 --> 00:50:04,300
I'm not sure that they designed a hole

1269
00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:05,666
that was from tee to green

1270
00:50:05,666 --> 00:50:08,700
but I think there were green sites that at that time

1271
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:11,733
they were still trying to figure out okay

1272
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:14,933
how much golf do we have out here

1273
00:50:14,966 --> 00:50:18,600
what how many should we build who builds them okay

1274
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,133
these two firms are gonna

1275
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,933
how are we gonna divvy this up

1276
00:50:22,266 --> 00:50:24,900
you know what who gets that green

1277
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:26,300
who gets the cause you know

1278
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:29,266
I think Tom will tell you that

1279
00:50:29,266 --> 00:50:33,166
I think his favorite green is the 10th green

1280
00:50:33,166 --> 00:50:34,266
on the red

1281
00:50:34,366 --> 00:50:40,000
drivable par 4 uphill that I think Tom really

1282
00:50:41,233 --> 00:50:42,066
like that green

1283
00:50:42,066 --> 00:50:44,266
thought it was the best wanted that green

1284
00:50:44,266 --> 00:50:47,466
but by picking blue he didn't get that you know

1285
00:50:47,466 --> 00:50:49,000
like he didn't get that green

1286
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,200
but he preferred the routing of the blue you know

1287
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:52,166
he picked first

1288
00:50:52,166 --> 00:50:55,100
and he picked what was then deemed the blue

1289
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:57,500
so I think there was a lot of

1290
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:58,600
they had walked around

1291
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,966
they had identified a lot of golf and then it was like

1292
00:51:01,966 --> 00:51:05,033
okay who wants what would be that course

1293
00:51:05,033 --> 00:51:08,000
and you take that course and so there

1294
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,766
there there as I'm you know

1295
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,266
flushing out these stories

1296
00:51:11,266 --> 00:51:12,866
there's gonna be a lot of really cool

1297
00:51:12,866 --> 00:51:14,766
anecdotes that come come about

1298
00:51:14,766 --> 00:51:16,966
so I'm looking forward to hearing that

1299
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:22,200
and speaking about destinations and golf trips

1300
00:51:23,233 --> 00:51:24,566
you've done a lot of them

1301
00:51:25,366 --> 00:51:27,733
and what's your favorite golf trip you've ever been on

1302
00:51:31,166 --> 00:51:32,166
man the

1303
00:51:32,166 --> 00:51:34,033
the last one I was on ha ha ha

1304
00:51:34,033 --> 00:51:34,833
ha ha ha

1305
00:51:35,233 --> 00:51:36,866
um I mean

1306
00:51:36,866 --> 00:51:38,000
you know I

1307
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,000
I do an annual trip to Bandon Dunes every year

1308
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,000
it's my it's my group 20

1309
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,466
group of 23 friends and myself

1310
00:51:45,466 --> 00:51:47,933
and it's the Uncle Tony Invitational

1311
00:51:48,366 --> 00:51:49,966
and Bandon really works for us

1312
00:51:49,966 --> 00:51:51,866
because it's multiple courses

1313
00:51:51,866 --> 00:51:53,766
and short course and putting course

1314
00:51:53,766 --> 00:51:54,433
and we implement

1315
00:51:54,433 --> 00:51:56,700
all of that into the framework of what we have

1316
00:51:56,700 --> 00:51:57,766
as a buddies trip

1317
00:51:57,866 --> 00:52:00,466
I think the southwest coast of Ireland

1318
00:52:00,466 --> 00:52:04,366
and the discovery of the Hinch and Tralee

1319
00:52:04,433 --> 00:52:08,066
and Waterford and Old Head and Bali Bunion and

1320
00:52:08,066 --> 00:52:08,866
you know

1321
00:52:08,966 --> 00:52:12,300
that's gonna resonate with me for the rest of my life

1322
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:13,166
and those courses

1323
00:52:13,166 --> 00:52:14,766
and what I've been able to go back and do

1324
00:52:14,766 --> 00:52:16,433
will always matter I think

1325
00:52:16,433 --> 00:52:18,600
my education and evolution

1326
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,200
around the trips I've taken to Saint Andrews

1327
00:52:21,366 --> 00:52:22,400
the Old Course

1328
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,966
and being able to spoke out and learn about that

1329
00:52:25,966 --> 00:52:28,800
you know you have to do Saint Andrews

1330
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,200
you have to do the trip that sort of

1331
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,633
builds around Saint Andrews

1332
00:52:32,633 --> 00:52:34,033
that's first and foremost

1333
00:52:34,033 --> 00:52:36,300
after that southwest coast of Ireland

1334
00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:38,066
after that sort of

1335
00:52:38,066 --> 00:52:40,433
the north and northwest of Ireland

1336
00:52:40,433 --> 00:52:43,466
is got to be part of the part of the fabric

1337
00:52:43,466 --> 00:52:45,466
and then Bandon Dunes and then

1338
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,066
you know I know in England

1339
00:52:48,066 --> 00:52:50,300
the links along the line is an epic

1340
00:52:50,300 --> 00:52:53,400
it's an epic education and trip and experiences

1341
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,266
but after

1342
00:52:56,766 --> 00:52:58,366
Saint Andrews in Scotland

1343
00:52:58,366 --> 00:52:58,833
you know that

1344
00:52:58,833 --> 00:53:01,066
that spoke and after southwest of Ireland

1345
00:53:01,066 --> 00:53:01,800
and after north

1346
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,366
northwest Ireland and after Bandon Dunes

1347
00:53:05,166 --> 00:53:07,766
now you're talking about Melbourne

1348
00:53:07,766 --> 00:53:08,666
Australia

1349
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:10,666
to me that

1350
00:53:11,433 --> 00:53:13,900
you know I remember asking Tom Doak at one point

1351
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:14,666
what would be

1352
00:53:14,666 --> 00:53:16,666
your favorite golf destination in the world

1353
00:53:16,666 --> 00:53:17,633
he said Melbourne Australia

1354
00:53:17,633 --> 00:53:19,600
I was like Melbourne Australia what

1355
00:53:19,633 --> 00:53:20,900
then you go to Melbourne and you're like

1356
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:23,000
oh my god uh

1357
00:53:23,033 --> 00:53:27,366
that's like three abandoned dunes within

1358
00:53:27,366 --> 00:53:30,566
you know 30 minutes to an hour of each other

1359
00:53:30,566 --> 00:53:31,166
and that you know

1360
00:53:31,166 --> 00:53:35,700
that you're talking about 15 iconic excellent

1361
00:53:35,700 --> 00:53:38,066
exceptional golf courses

1362
00:53:38,066 --> 00:53:41,033
all within an hour of each other

1363
00:53:41,033 --> 00:53:43,366
and an hour of the center of Melbourne

1364
00:53:43,366 --> 00:53:44,566
which is a wonderful city

1365
00:53:44,566 --> 00:53:45,966
it's amazing so yeah

1366
00:53:45,966 --> 00:53:46,833
that I think that would be

1367
00:53:46,833 --> 00:53:48,466
that would be that would be

1368
00:53:48,466 --> 00:53:49,066
and then oh

1369
00:53:49,066 --> 00:53:51,000
by the way Monterey Peninsula

1370
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:53,200
I mean you got

1371
00:53:53,366 --> 00:53:54,466
that's a whole another

1372
00:53:54,466 --> 00:53:55,600
that's a whole another can of worms

1373
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,233
but and then you got

1374
00:53:57,233 --> 00:53:58,633
then you got the emerging

1375
00:53:58,633 --> 00:54:01,400
you know the sand valleys and the stream songs and the

1376
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:02,900
and the you know

1377
00:54:03,566 --> 00:54:06,000
Michigan and and God

1378
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,900
he's it just now it just keeps going and going

1379
00:54:09,433 --> 00:54:10,833
you've not I've noticed that you

1380
00:54:10,833 --> 00:54:12,033
what you have said there

1381
00:54:12,033 --> 00:54:13,300
is a bunch of golf courses

1382
00:54:13,300 --> 00:54:14,800
that are very open to the public

1383
00:54:15,166 --> 00:54:16,766
it you've

1384
00:54:17,066 --> 00:54:18,166
not mentioned

1385
00:54:18,166 --> 00:54:20,500
areas that are like predominantly private

1386
00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:22,266
so like I don't know

1387
00:54:22,266 --> 00:54:24,633
and the New York area or something Long Island yeah

1388
00:54:24,633 --> 00:54:25,566
yeah Long Island well yeah

1389
00:54:25,566 --> 00:54:27,166
I I don't even consider them

1390
00:54:27,166 --> 00:54:28,900
I don't even consider them

1391
00:54:30,033 --> 00:54:31,000
those are

1392
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,566
because the minute you start talking

1393
00:54:33,566 --> 00:54:35,200
predominant private stuff

1394
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,300
then uh you're talking about

1395
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:41,200
less than 2% that actually get a chance to

1396
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:42,366
to experience so

1397
00:54:42,366 --> 00:54:45,500
to wax poetic about a bunch of places that nobody

1398
00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:48,500
can play seems to be a waste of everybody's time

1399
00:54:48,500 --> 00:54:52,166
you know people that are of that 2% they know about him

1400
00:54:52,166 --> 00:54:53,333
they're gonna get to him

1401
00:54:53,433 --> 00:54:56,600
they're probably members at one or two of them anyway

1402
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,266
so I don't I don't feel like it's a it's a worthwhile

1403
00:55:00,266 --> 00:55:03,033
you know endeavor to to discuss

1404
00:55:03,033 --> 00:55:05,166
and that's the beauty of UK and Ireland

1405
00:55:05,166 --> 00:55:08,833
is we can talk about all these incredibly

1406
00:55:08,833 --> 00:55:10,300
you know you know

1407
00:55:10,433 --> 00:55:14,766
iconic experiences and you can play them

1408
00:55:15,100 --> 00:55:17,866
that's why pasentiempo is so cool in that model

1409
00:55:17,866 --> 00:55:20,566
is it's very similar to the UK and Irish model

1410
00:55:20,566 --> 00:55:23,766
which is yeah we have members and shareholders and it's

1411
00:55:23,766 --> 00:55:25,333
we're semi private

1412
00:55:25,666 --> 00:55:28,200
but you can also play it and it's Alister Mackenzie

1413
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:28,566
yeah

1414
00:55:28,566 --> 00:55:32,266
very much so and one of his great masterpieces as well

1415
00:55:32,266 --> 00:55:33,066
yeah totally

1416
00:55:33,066 --> 00:55:33,700
I mean you know

1417
00:55:33,700 --> 00:55:35,666
he didn't do he didn't do a lot of clunkers

1418
00:55:35,666 --> 00:55:36,966
you know well

1419
00:55:36,966 --> 00:55:40,033
I see I've I've had this argument with people

1420
00:55:40,033 --> 00:55:40,866
Alister Mackenzie

1421
00:55:40,866 --> 00:55:43,200
I don't know what he discovered in Australia

1422
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,700
but he hasn't the the

1423
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:49,666
his ability to build golf course in UK is never

1424
00:55:49,666 --> 00:55:52,233
as good as what he was able to do in Australia

1425
00:55:52,233 --> 00:55:54,600
and in America

1426
00:55:54,666 --> 00:55:58,333
and I don't know what he discovered in Australia

1427
00:55:59,700 --> 00:56:01,600
well it's really good land

1428
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,633
I mean it's really good sand perfect right

1429
00:56:03,633 --> 00:56:04,733
yeah um

1430
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,233
and there's yeah there's a lot of it

1431
00:56:08,233 --> 00:56:11,466
so yeah it just feels like there's a tie in to

1432
00:56:11,466 --> 00:56:12,966
like his bunkers tie in better

1433
00:56:12,966 --> 00:56:14,800
the moment he goes to Australia

1434
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,133
his um

1435
00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:18,866
everything sits better with the ground

1436
00:56:18,866 --> 00:56:22,200
it just feels like it was less manufactured

1437
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,600
and I don't know there's some moment that

1438
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,533
I would love to see a letter of him

1439
00:56:27,166 --> 00:56:29,366
describing what he learnt in Australia

1440
00:56:29,466 --> 00:56:32,466
but the scale there is unbelievable right

1441
00:56:32,466 --> 00:56:33,366
oh it's incredible

1442
00:56:33,566 --> 00:56:35,333
I you haven't

1443
00:56:35,766 --> 00:56:40,100
you haven't lived until you've walked around Melbourne

1444
00:56:40,100 --> 00:56:43,200
Royal Melbourne and the amount of holes

1445
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:47,233
the scale I I've never I've never you know

1446
00:56:47,233 --> 00:56:49,266
Mammoth dunes uh

1447
00:56:50,100 --> 00:56:52,166
is from a scale standpoint

1448
00:56:52,166 --> 00:56:54,800
is the only thing I can remember walking around going

1449
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,866
wow there's so much space and room and options

1450
00:57:00,533 --> 00:57:01,666
and it really is like oh

1451
00:57:01,666 --> 00:57:02,900
you can kind of hit it where you

1452
00:57:02,900 --> 00:57:04,066
where you want off the tee

1453
00:57:04,066 --> 00:57:04,500
but that

1454
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:07,700
where you hit it is gonna then impact your second shot

1455
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:10,400
so does that make it a second shot golf course

1456
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,566
yes but you still

1457
00:57:12,566 --> 00:57:14,200
does still matter where you hit off the tee

1458
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:15,366
you're just gonna be able to find it

1459
00:57:15,366 --> 00:57:16,700
which is so much fun

1460
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:20,233
and then there's the amount of movement at Melbourne

1461
00:57:20,233 --> 00:57:20,766
where you know

1462
00:57:20,766 --> 00:57:24,533
how much from where your ball lands to where it ends up

1463
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:28,933
the that distance at Melbourne is unlike anything

1464
00:57:29,033 --> 00:57:30,733
anywhere else in the world

1465
00:57:30,766 --> 00:57:33,500
I think it's in part because of the undulation and the

1466
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:34,066
the the

1467
00:57:34,066 --> 00:57:36,200
the geography and the topography

1468
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,233
but also the

1469
00:57:37,233 --> 00:57:39,833
the firm and fast conditions that you play it in

1470
00:57:39,833 --> 00:57:41,600
so the ball just keeps going

1471
00:57:42,066 --> 00:57:44,100
it's so cool when you watch a ball bounce

1472
00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:46,166
the height of the flag when it lands on the green

1473
00:57:46,166 --> 00:57:47,700
it's just like what

1474
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,966
what am I doing here hahaha

1475
00:57:50,433 --> 00:57:51,700
you know at Melbourne

1476
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:53,233
especially the there

1477
00:57:53,233 --> 00:57:54,966
you never ever

1478
00:57:54,966 --> 00:57:57,700
ever take aim at the pin ever

1479
00:57:57,700 --> 00:57:59,300
no it's

1480
00:57:59,666 --> 00:58:00,800
it's not that at all

1481
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,866
it's the aim for the best position that you can get to

1482
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:04,566
yeah and then

1483
00:58:04,566 --> 00:58:04,866
you know

1484
00:58:04,866 --> 00:58:06,900
they're then talk about being a member at a club

1485
00:58:06,900 --> 00:58:08,400
wouldn't you love to be a member at

1486
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,366
at Royal Melbourne and be able to play those courses

1487
00:58:11,366 --> 00:58:14,833
because the variety and the pin placements

1488
00:58:14,833 --> 00:58:17,866
the tees and the weather and the conditions and the

1489
00:58:17,866 --> 00:58:19,200
you know can you imagine

1490
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,166
you've never have ever played the same course twice

1491
00:58:22,633 --> 00:58:23,800
have you ever um

1492
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,333
have you ever played the compost

1493
00:58:26,966 --> 00:58:31,100
yeah well that's what we play

1494
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:36,933
that's not true we played the west and walked a bunch

1495
00:58:37,033 --> 00:58:38,266
right is that no

1496
00:58:38,366 --> 00:58:40,100
we walked a bunch of the other holes

1497
00:58:40,100 --> 00:58:41,400
so we weren't able to pretty much

1498
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,900
members and pros to get to play the concert yeah

1499
00:58:45,033 --> 00:58:46,566
I haven't tried that

1500
00:58:47,433 --> 00:58:49,833
it's that internal paddock in my head

1501
00:58:49,833 --> 00:58:53,600
I think I have but in reality I haven't I played both

1502
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:54,766
I played the yeah

1503
00:58:54,766 --> 00:58:57,100
west and east so I know all the holes

1504
00:58:57,100 --> 00:58:57,966
it's just apparently

1505
00:58:57,966 --> 00:59:01,066
the flow of the golf course changes completely yeah

1506
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:02,633
amazing that'd be special

1507
00:59:02,633 --> 00:59:05,300
that'd be special yeah very much so

1508
00:59:06,666 --> 00:59:08,166
what makes a good golf trip

1509
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,200
the people you're with

1510
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,633
I mean you gotta start there right

1511
00:59:13,633 --> 00:59:14,266
I mean you

1512
00:59:14,266 --> 00:59:17,866
you can't there's not a lot of wiggle room there

1513
00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:21,066
uh you have to

1514
00:59:21,166 --> 00:59:25,766
you have to be surrounded by people that uh

1515
00:59:25,966 --> 00:59:28,300
the chemistry there within the group

1516
00:59:28,366 --> 00:59:30,266
and once you have that

1517
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:33,066
now you can get through the weather

1518
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,066
you can get through the the

1519
00:59:35,166 --> 00:59:37,300
the twists and turns and the

1520
00:59:37,300 --> 00:59:40,033
and the whatever you know

1521
00:59:40,033 --> 00:59:41,366
like it you know

1522
00:59:41,533 --> 00:59:44,033
you're with the right and that could be one person

1523
00:59:44,033 --> 00:59:46,166
it could be three people it can be

1524
00:59:46,166 --> 00:59:47,100
you know 11 people

1525
00:59:47,100 --> 00:59:48,466
it can be 15 you know

1526
00:59:48,466 --> 00:59:52,666
the 15 others like whatever the number is just uh

1527
00:59:52,666 --> 00:59:55,166
making sure you're with the right people and then

1528
00:59:55,166 --> 00:59:56,300
you know and then

1529
00:59:56,433 --> 00:59:57,200
those are the ones

1530
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,266
you're gonna end up talking about it with

1531
00:59:59,266 --> 01:00:02,300
and remembering and rehashing and

1532
01:00:02,433 --> 01:00:06,300
you know the text thread that I have for the last 15

1533
01:00:06,366 --> 01:00:08,700
years of the Uncle Tony Invitational

1534
01:00:09,333 --> 01:00:10,500
is everything to me

1535
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:13,666
cause it's not just the days we're together

1536
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,266
it's all the days

1537
01:00:15,266 --> 01:00:17,766
thinking about what we've done together

1538
01:00:17,766 --> 01:00:19,733
and what we might do together

1539
01:00:19,866 --> 01:00:20,266
yeah it's

1540
01:00:20,266 --> 01:00:23,066
it's a mix of looking back and looking forward

1541
01:00:23,066 --> 01:00:24,733
and the excitement and the energy

1542
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,033
my wife says to me all the time

1543
01:00:26,033 --> 01:00:28,600
I can't believe how much time

1544
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:33,266
effort and energy you put into this annual buddies trip

1545
01:00:33,266 --> 01:00:36,800
and you struggle to plan date night for us once a week

1546
01:00:37,433 --> 01:00:39,566
and I'm like it's fair

1547
01:00:39,566 --> 01:00:41,900
and I can't necessarily disagree

1548
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,566
and I don't know why but that just

1549
01:00:44,566 --> 01:00:47,100
that's part of who we are

1550
01:00:47,300 --> 01:00:48,366
you know as

1551
01:00:48,366 --> 01:00:51,633
as guys who like to be with our buddies

1552
01:00:51,633 --> 01:00:53,033
I don't know I don't know what it is

1553
01:00:53,033 --> 01:00:55,100
I've got the exact same thing

1554
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,666
my father started a tournament 50 year

1555
01:00:57,666 --> 01:01:01,100
51 years ago where we play the open course every year

1556
01:01:01,266 --> 01:01:03,066
before the open oh wow

1557
01:01:03,066 --> 01:01:05,900
and so when my father passed away

1558
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:09,166
I took on the chalice and I've been running it

1559
01:01:09,166 --> 01:01:10,266
and it's really cool

1560
01:01:10,266 --> 01:01:12,400
and we have such a variety of people

1561
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,766
it'll be like a guy who's 84 from Long Island

1562
01:01:15,766 --> 01:01:20,066
and I'll be a a farmer from the Black Isle in Scotland

1563
01:01:20,066 --> 01:01:23,666
and it's just the most extreme variety

1564
01:01:23,666 --> 01:01:25,700
it's really quite fun that's

1565
01:01:26,166 --> 01:01:28,000
first of all it sounds like an incredible story

1566
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,766
and if you haven't written or done video about that

1567
01:01:30,766 --> 01:01:32,000
then you should I mean that

1568
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:32,700
what a what a

1569
01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:34,200
what a tradition and what a story

1570
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,100
I can only imagine the layers

1571
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:38,266
of 51 years of doing something like that

1572
01:01:38,266 --> 01:01:41,166
and especially such a cool concept of leading into

1573
01:01:41,166 --> 01:01:43,433
to the open venue but I

1574
01:01:43,433 --> 01:01:45,233
it's same kind of thing at my group

1575
01:01:45,233 --> 01:01:47,366
I've got my best friend from high school

1576
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,000
uh my roommate from college

1577
01:01:50,133 --> 01:01:52,300
and I've got the president of Pinehurst

1578
01:01:52,300 --> 01:01:53,800
and the president of Kemper Sports

1579
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,900
and the tournament director of the

1580
01:01:55,900 --> 01:01:58,466
of the at and t and the Pure Insurance and

1581
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:00,566
and I got a couple musicians

1582
01:02:00,566 --> 01:02:02,900
who like to play guitars around fire pits

1583
01:02:02,900 --> 01:02:05,433
who are also members at Baltusrol or

1584
01:02:05,433 --> 01:02:06,233
you know

1585
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:07,866
it's like I you know

1586
01:02:07,866 --> 01:02:09,333
it's just it's a

1587
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,500
I got teaching pros I got buddies I've

1588
01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:14,466
you know essentially

1589
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,200
I have always treated as

1590
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,033
the people I've picked up along the way

1591
01:02:19,033 --> 01:02:21,566
who've become close friends uh

1592
01:02:21,566 --> 01:02:23,266
through and with the game of golf

1593
01:02:23,266 --> 01:02:24,833
and that's what my uncle did

1594
01:02:24,833 --> 01:02:26,100
he linked people together

1595
01:02:26,100 --> 01:02:27,633
you know John Ashworth is on the trip

1596
01:02:27,633 --> 01:02:29,366
he's become like a brother to me

1597
01:02:29,500 --> 01:02:29,900
you know it

1598
01:02:29,900 --> 01:02:31,233
it's like it's

1599
01:02:31,233 --> 01:02:33,900
it's just an incredible mix of good humans

1600
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:36,000
and I'm lucky to call them friends

1601
01:02:36,766 --> 01:02:37,966
that's such a cool thing

1602
01:02:37,966 --> 01:02:39,300
there's something really romantic

1603
01:02:39,300 --> 01:02:42,266
not romantic sounds ridiculous

1604
01:02:42,266 --> 01:02:43,533
but it is the word romantic

1605
01:02:43,766 --> 01:02:44,566
oh it

1606
01:02:45,266 --> 01:02:46,900
it does sound ridiculous

1607
01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:49,833
but it is exactly the word that should be used

1608
01:02:49,833 --> 01:02:51,066
yeah I think

1609
01:02:51,833 --> 01:02:54,300
yeah it's not one that going back to date night

1610
01:02:54,966 --> 01:02:57,033
well I went to an all boys boarding school

1611
01:02:57,033 --> 01:02:58,066
so you wouldn't be I wouldn't

1612
01:02:58,066 --> 01:02:59,600
have got away with calling it romantic

1613
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,166
without being called something else

1614
01:03:02,266 --> 01:03:03,300
it is there's there's

1615
01:03:03,300 --> 01:03:06,100
there's elements to the romance where you're like wow

1616
01:03:06,100 --> 01:03:07,866
and to my wife's point what

1617
01:03:07,866 --> 01:03:09,833
how can you care more about this than

1618
01:03:09,833 --> 01:03:11,366
you know the weekly date night

1619
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:12,366
and then you know there's

1620
01:03:12,366 --> 01:03:14,433
there in lies the the challenge of balance

1621
01:03:14,433 --> 01:03:15,600
but it's it's

1622
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,000
there's something there I

1623
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,000
I you know

1624
01:03:18,666 --> 01:03:22,000
the amount of joy it brings and

1625
01:03:22,833 --> 01:03:25,566
and the memories and the moments in the camaraderie is

1626
01:03:25,566 --> 01:03:28,300
is second to none yeah

1627
01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:32,100
very much so and what golf courses you played

1628
01:03:32,300 --> 01:03:34,966
how many golf courses do you know how many you played

1629
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,000
I have tried to sit down and uh

1630
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,300
and run the numbers cause if you go 100 to a

1631
01:03:42,300 --> 01:03:46,800
200 days a year on the road for 30 years

1632
01:03:46,866 --> 01:03:48,500
and then you start

1633
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,600
thinking about how many courses I've played

1634
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:52,700
per state

1635
01:03:53,366 --> 01:03:54,800
and then per country

1636
01:03:55,666 --> 01:03:56,800
and you start you know

1637
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,300
running the numbers it's it's it's

1638
01:04:00,666 --> 01:04:03,433
it's a really big number and it's

1639
01:04:03,433 --> 01:04:06,000
it's actually for for what people

1640
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,500
if I said the number out loud

1641
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:10,666
let's say it's 15 or I

1642
01:04:10,666 --> 01:04:11,566
I you know I

1643
01:04:12,266 --> 01:04:14,700
it's like an obscene crazy number

1644
01:04:14,700 --> 01:04:17,500
and you'd think that sounds ridiculous I

1645
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:19,300
it does it sounds ridiculous to me

1646
01:04:19,300 --> 01:04:22,400
but it's everywhere from the Winter Park Nines

1647
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,566
and the Goat Hill parks and the Canal Shores

1648
01:04:24,566 --> 01:04:27,266
to Shore Acres Shore Acres is another

1649
01:04:27,266 --> 01:04:30,700
that's on my it's on my list of top courses

1650
01:04:30,700 --> 01:04:32,866
but and Chicago is another destination

1651
01:04:32,866 --> 01:04:34,500
but that's predominantly private

1652
01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:37,500
so they fall into that Philadelphia New York

1653
01:04:37,500 --> 01:04:39,966
Chicago San Francisco

1654
01:04:40,033 --> 01:04:42,566
Los Angeles conversation where it's like oh

1655
01:04:42,566 --> 01:04:44,266
what a bunch of great courses

1656
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,600
great golf trip if you can get on uh

1657
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,166
and not many can but the yeah

1658
01:04:50,166 --> 01:04:52,033
it's it's wild

1659
01:04:52,033 --> 01:04:53,433
I've obviously being British

1660
01:04:53,433 --> 01:04:55,100
I've tried to I've done

1661
01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:57,233
and my I've done a few trips to America

1662
01:04:57,233 --> 01:05:00,166
I'm going back over and nine days

1663
01:05:00,466 --> 01:05:01,800
but the um

1664
01:05:02,100 --> 01:05:04,233
it's very difficult it's very difficult

1665
01:05:04,233 --> 01:05:06,466
if you wanna especially for someone like myself

1666
01:05:06,466 --> 01:05:07,900
I really want to go

1667
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:09,966
see all the best golf courses in the world

1668
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,200
I don't want a much I just wanna have one round

1669
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,333
one round's all I want it's all I need

1670
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:15,500
just wanna see these places

1671
01:05:15,500 --> 01:05:16,033
but it's right

1672
01:05:16,033 --> 01:05:17,966
it's so hard well

1673
01:05:17,966 --> 01:05:21,033
and that that goes back to one of your questions about

1674
01:05:21,033 --> 01:05:23,600
what's the deal with North American travelers

1675
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,666
coming and wanting to experience

1676
01:05:26,666 --> 01:05:28,200
some of what you have over there

1677
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,066
first of all we can get

1678
01:05:30,066 --> 01:05:32,366
we can get there we can have access to it

1679
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,066
you flip that script and you are saying

1680
01:05:35,066 --> 01:05:38,100
if you look at our top 100 and you're saying

1681
01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:42,033
how many of these can I play at that's accessible to

1682
01:05:42,033 --> 01:05:43,166
you know the public

1683
01:05:43,166 --> 01:05:45,900
without making some phone calls and knowing somebody

1684
01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:48,100
and trying to get on and getting a member to

1685
01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:49,800
to play that's

1686
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:54,400
it's night and day from us to you versus you to us

1687
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:55,900
it's doesn't compare

1688
01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:57,900
and what a

1689
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:00,566
golf courses have you not done yet that you want to do

1690
01:06:01,700 --> 01:06:04,433
Crystal Downs is one that I haven't done uh

1691
01:06:04,433 --> 01:06:07,833
Shinnecock I've I've I've walked it and covered it

1692
01:06:07,833 --> 01:06:09,866
I haven't played it I've had a couple invites

1693
01:06:09,866 --> 01:06:10,900
and I haven't been able to do it

1694
01:06:10,900 --> 01:06:12,566
and I'm kind of bummed about that

1695
01:06:12,566 --> 01:06:16,100
so I think Shinnecock um

1696
01:06:16,166 --> 01:06:20,933
and uh Friars head Crystal Downs

1697
01:06:22,366 --> 01:06:24,333
are uh

1698
01:06:25,033 --> 01:06:29,400
three that always kind of gravitate towards the top

1699
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,500
for me um okay

1700
01:06:32,066 --> 01:06:35,266
as far as UK and Ireland and and uh

1701
01:06:35,833 --> 01:06:39,866
I I feel like I have been so blessed and been given

1702
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,966
credible opportunities to actually essentially

1703
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,166
had had the opportunity to play

1704
01:06:47,233 --> 01:06:51,566
any course that's in the top 100 in the world uh

1705
01:06:51,566 --> 01:06:53,433
that's UK Ireland and

1706
01:06:53,433 --> 01:06:58,500
and for the most part like Melbourne and even Sydney um

1707
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,100
have you been done anything in Asia

1708
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:02,533
no

1709
01:07:03,100 --> 01:07:05,400
nope not not nothing

1710
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,366
and it's kind of a hole in my glove

1711
01:07:09,366 --> 01:07:10,666
but I just haven't done it

1712
01:07:10,833 --> 01:07:12,700
it's so tricky cause it's very similar

1713
01:07:12,700 --> 01:07:16,033
the top stuff is very similar to the private yeah

1714
01:07:16,033 --> 01:07:17,966
I've been to Korea I've played you know

1715
01:07:17,966 --> 01:07:23,100
I've played some Korean I I I can't you know

1716
01:07:23,100 --> 01:07:24,400
I know core and cringe

1717
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,433
have a really incredible golf course in Japan

1718
01:07:26,433 --> 01:07:28,566
I just don't I if I'm gonna

1719
01:07:28,633 --> 01:07:30,800
if I'm gonna take a big chunk of time

1720
01:07:30,900 --> 01:07:34,200
get on a plane for a long period of time and

1721
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:35,500
and do something like that

1722
01:07:35,500 --> 01:07:40,166
it's for me now especially at my age and where I'm at

1723
01:07:40,166 --> 01:07:43,600
I'm going UK Ireland Melbourne

1724
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:44,966
Canada by the way

1725
01:07:44,966 --> 01:07:45,833
there's there's some

1726
01:07:45,833 --> 01:07:48,366
there's some really cool cool spots in Canada

1727
01:07:48,366 --> 01:07:49,166
um

1728
01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:50,566
I you know

1729
01:07:50,566 --> 01:07:52,266
I'm going I'm going those directions

1730
01:07:52,866 --> 01:07:57,500
fair and what golf course surprised you the most

1731
01:07:57,566 --> 01:07:58,500
oh man

1732
01:07:58,866 --> 01:08:00,300
that's a great question

1733
01:08:01,266 --> 01:08:04,100
Mountain Lake in Central Florida

1734
01:08:04,333 --> 01:08:06,400
I remember going what you know

1735
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:08,466
that to me is one of the great uh

1736
01:08:09,166 --> 01:08:12,400
sort of hidden gems now it's private again

1737
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:14,133
going back to private I think

1738
01:08:17,700 --> 01:08:19,633
Waterville too like I

1739
01:08:19,633 --> 01:08:21,066
you know um

1740
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:23,900
I've gotten the chance to play that a bunch

1741
01:08:23,900 --> 01:08:26,166
the more I've played it the more meaningful it is to me

1742
01:08:26,166 --> 01:08:30,500
how about Saint Patrick's at rossopena that I

1743
01:08:30,500 --> 01:08:31,700
you know again

1744
01:08:32,066 --> 01:08:34,200
Tom Doak and and

1745
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,266
and some of his top associates were there

1746
01:08:36,266 --> 01:08:37,566
it was Covid it was a it's

1747
01:08:37,566 --> 01:08:39,766
it's interesting time but they took the land

1748
01:08:39,766 --> 01:08:41,700
that was ultimately gonna be two golf courses

1749
01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:43,966
and turned it into one scale wise

1750
01:08:44,166 --> 01:08:46,066
going back to Royal Melbourne

1751
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:48,400
going back to like Mammoth Dunes

1752
01:08:48,633 --> 01:08:50,466
from a scale standpoint

1753
01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:52,966
that's on that that card

1754
01:08:52,966 --> 01:08:55,100
and I had you know

1755
01:08:55,633 --> 01:08:56,833
north and Northern Ireland

1756
01:08:56,833 --> 01:08:58,766
has a lot of really amazing things

1757
01:08:58,766 --> 01:09:01,566
and Carn is got that rawness to it and

1758
01:09:01,566 --> 01:09:06,866
and roughness to it but if you take the polish of like

1759
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,700
the Royal Melburns and the lehinches and Waterville

1760
01:09:10,700 --> 01:09:13,100
and you put it on those dunes

1761
01:09:14,066 --> 01:09:17,266
that's that's definitely that's of

1762
01:09:17,266 --> 01:09:19,333
of the of the LA you know

1763
01:09:19,566 --> 01:09:22,233
of what's been built in the last 10

1764
01:09:22,233 --> 01:09:23,566
15 years

1765
01:09:24,166 --> 01:09:26,666
that's as good as it gets to me

1766
01:09:26,766 --> 01:09:29,000
what I find really interesting about that

1767
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,433
you saying that is um

1768
01:09:30,433 --> 01:09:33,900
I've heard the price of how much it cost to build

1769
01:09:34,433 --> 01:09:37,200
and you couldn't irrigate three holes in America

1770
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,066
for that price it's crazy what they've done

1771
01:09:40,066 --> 01:09:43,566
and and that's also why it's

1772
01:09:43,700 --> 01:09:45,833
that adds to the layer of brilliance right

1773
01:09:45,833 --> 01:09:47,400
I mean that that is literal

1774
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:49,333
that was that was there

1775
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:53,100
that was there for the making and the taking

1776
01:09:53,366 --> 01:09:57,900
as it relates to big bold epic

1777
01:09:57,900 --> 01:10:00,633
memorable beautiful reveals

1778
01:10:00,633 --> 01:10:03,966
as you walking around that golf course and

1779
01:10:03,966 --> 01:10:06,866
and that finish at 16 I

1780
01:10:07,166 --> 01:10:09,900
I'm not sure if you go there

1781
01:10:10,033 --> 01:10:13,200
and you don't walk off that golf course going wow

1782
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:14,800
I can't wait to play that again

1783
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:16,966
I think you're kind of dead inside honestly

1784
01:10:16,966 --> 01:10:18,366
I don't know what to tell you

1785
01:10:18,366 --> 01:10:22,866
your golf is not for you go do something else hahaha

1786
01:10:23,566 --> 01:10:24,466
yeah that's fair enough

1787
01:10:24,466 --> 01:10:26,500
I respect that completely

1788
01:10:26,833 --> 01:10:28,966
and I to be honest with you

1789
01:10:29,433 --> 01:10:31,200
I think we've had a pretty damn good chat

1790
01:10:31,233 --> 01:10:33,000
I'm just trying to think if there's anything

1791
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:34,966
that I would like to add to it

1792
01:10:34,966 --> 01:10:35,766
but uh

1793
01:10:36,033 --> 01:10:38,166
we're at that kind of sweet spot for us

1794
01:10:38,166 --> 01:10:41,500
in terms of what we get so listener numbers

1795
01:10:41,500 --> 01:10:43,400
it's like an hour and 10 minutes or so

1796
01:10:44,033 --> 01:10:44,833
it's I've

1797
01:10:44,833 --> 01:10:46,233
I've I love I

1798
01:10:46,233 --> 01:10:46,833
I you know

1799
01:10:46,833 --> 01:10:48,833
I love the conversation I do

1800
01:10:48,833 --> 01:10:50,366
I do you know

1801
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,700
wildly respect uh

1802
01:10:52,866 --> 01:10:56,500
you know what you do and how you're doing it I

1803
01:10:56,500 --> 01:10:58,566
you know it's all subjective right

1804
01:10:58,566 --> 01:11:00,500
we're talking about there's no

1805
01:11:00,500 --> 01:11:02,100
there really is no right or wrong

1806
01:11:02,100 --> 01:11:04,566
but I think um

1807
01:11:05,100 --> 01:11:05,966
I you know

1808
01:11:05,966 --> 01:11:10,366
and I appreciate and enjoy this conversation and uh

1809
01:11:10,466 --> 01:11:15,033
and your angle of of questions obviously comes from

1810
01:11:15,033 --> 01:11:19,366
from a really cool and curious and educated place so uh

1811
01:11:19,366 --> 01:11:20,400
we can you know

1812
01:11:20,566 --> 01:11:21,866
hopefully we talk again sometime

1813
01:11:21,866 --> 01:11:23,700
hopefully get to play at some point I

1814
01:11:23,700 --> 01:11:25,600
I I certainly uh

1815
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,800
now having met you knowing where you are

1816
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:29,633
I you know you

1817
01:11:29,633 --> 01:11:30,433
you have to be

1818
01:11:30,433 --> 01:11:32,366
one of the most popular people on the planet

1819
01:11:32,366 --> 01:11:33,266
given your

1820
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:34,766
no wow

1821
01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:37,333
not with my golf club

1822
01:11:40,266 --> 01:11:41,866
there in lies the rub right

1823
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,800
well whenever you are coming over

1824
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,166
it'd be great to have you and I can host you

1825
01:11:47,166 --> 01:11:48,366
but whatever it's yeah

1826
01:11:48,366 --> 01:11:49,800
more than happy yeah

1827
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:50,900
I'm more than happy it's a

1828
01:11:50,900 --> 01:11:53,266
we lost Cork I think we lost him

1829
01:11:53,366 --> 01:11:54,300
is he is he still on

1830
01:11:54,300 --> 01:11:55,166
yeah he's

1831
01:11:55,166 --> 01:11:56,100
I don't know where he's gone

1832
01:11:56,100 --> 01:11:57,100
but I'm sure he's OK

1833
01:11:57,100 --> 01:11:59,266
he wanted to just be part of it coming out

1834
01:11:59,266 --> 01:12:01,000
so yeah more than happy

1835
01:12:01,033 --> 01:12:02,166
well thank you very much Matt

1836
01:12:02,166 --> 01:12:05,100
that was a really insightful and very interesting

1837
01:12:05,100 --> 01:12:07,266
I'm sure another day we'll have a

1838
01:12:07,266 --> 01:12:10,800
we'll go deep into something else and more about golf

1839
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:12,866
look forward to it top 100

1840
01:12:12,866 --> 01:12:13,900
Golf courses.com

1841
01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:16,266
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1842
01:12:16,266 --> 01:12:18,566
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1843
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1844
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:22,600
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1845
01:12:22,900 --> 01:12:25,500
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