Episode 110: GB&I Rankings

In this episode of Top 100 Clubhouse, host James Henderson is joined by Jasper Miners and Simon Barrington for a deep dive into the latest GB&I rankings and the factors shaping the future of golf course architecture across Great Britain & Ireland.

From the influence of unique UK landscapes on course design to the movers and shakers in the rankings, the team breaks down which clubs are rising, which are falling, and which courses narrowly missed out on the coveted Top 100. They also take a closer look at the bottom 10, discuss the vital role of course management and conditioning, and explore what clubs should be doing more of to improve both their ranking potential and the golfer experience.

Play fast, lunch slow.

Chapters:

00:00 – Intro
01:00 – GB&I Rankings
07:25 – How Unique UK Landscapes Impacts Golf Architecture
12:10 – GB&I: Fallers and Risers
24:43 – Near Misses: Courses Just Outside the Top 100
26:47 – Bottom 10 Golf Courses
36:13 – The Importance of Golf Course Management
48:23 – How Could The Top 100 Golf Courses Change?
54:00 – What Should Clubs Be Doing More Of?

Links

Top 100 Golf Courses Website 🛜
https://www.top100golfcourses.com/

Top 100 Golf Courses Official Merch 🧢
https://shop.top100golfcourses.com/

Lockhart Travel Club ✈️
https://www.lockharttravelclub.com/membership/

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/officialtop100/

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/thetop100golfcourses/

Transcript

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it's one of the best golf courses in the UK

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without a doubt I was shocked it didn't make the GPI

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our rankings are trying to be a reflection of good

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architectural design but then also proper agronomy

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tree management

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good management of Heather where it exists and

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and presenting a course

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bringing all three of those cogs together

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this is really really good golf

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we can't really take it seriously

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because there's a few animals roaming around

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I think you're wrong about one thing

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on what you just said hotels

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and the management of a group

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that don't care about the golf

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as soon as you make a course green

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for photos and pictures and for people arriving at

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wanting to see lush green things

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you take away a shot option

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which takes away strategic shot options

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those are the kind of things that we can judge

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because it's the way you've set up your course

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that is negated strategic golf

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it's not whether your greens running at 6 or 10

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whatever we don't care about those things

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you can preserve things without spending a lot of money

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you just have to understand what to preserve and how

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courses on this list are there

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because they have preserved what they have

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don't hire a hack hire someone who cares enough

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to understand why the golf course is as good as it is

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get a lot of architects that will go in

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and they'll make changes and propose changes

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without actually

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knowing what they're actually changing

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history won't smile well on

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on these guys they've got a lot to answer for

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hello and welcome to another episode of your Top 100

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Clubhouse podcast

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I'm your host James Henderson

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as always uh

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we have our regular guest in Jasper Miners

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and editor of the website

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and then one that people are slowly getting used to

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with a second visit on the top 100 Clubhouse podcast

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and we sure

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sure to have more and more is our GBI Head of Panel

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Simon Barrington how you doing Simon

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very well James

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thank you very much and glad to be back

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so quickly after the England preview uh

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pod which we did and um thanks to everybody for the

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positive feedback that we got for that

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that was great well

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calling you the GBI panel lead

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has probably teased what we're here to talk about and

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uh I'm quite excited about this one

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cause there's been a bit of movement

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you boys have been up quite busy haven't you

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yeah yeah

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it's um

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the GBN list is an interesting one

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because it's really encapsulates what we're about

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which is

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you have the global panel feeding from the top down

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and then you have the country panels

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feeding from the bottom up

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and this is a amalgamation of those lists uh

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put into a logical order um

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in order to get some measure of hierarchy

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um and it's much you know

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to a certain extent there's more science than art

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because the inputs

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are really prescribed by those panels um

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and and I think that's fairly unique um

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in the uh

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in the ranking universe uh

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to be able to do that um

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and you know we are

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you know

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we're blessed to have a very experienced global panel

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and that really dominates the top 30 or so in the list

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and then you know

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we have our country panels uh

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below that um

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but yeah it's a

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uh been

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been a joy for Jasper and I to uh

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work through it because we keep getting

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reminded as to what a great place

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this is to play golf

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I've seen the list as you guys as the

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the TPN I panel work through it

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and one thing I have noticed is how good

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the courses that have missed out are

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this is this is always the tough one

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because

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once you have your panel set for your countries

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um and we

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we took the approach a little bit differently this time

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it historically

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the way it's always been done was

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the world would go first and then GBI would go second

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and then the countries would go third

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and then counties

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so when we reset uh Scotland

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Ireland and England over the last two years um

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we tried to make it from the bottom up

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in the sense that we wanted to really see like

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what the panelists were saying on the ground

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in the trenches because in the past

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everything was from the top down um

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the virtually

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all the big decisions

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were already made by people that maybe had

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come and had a few plays

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over an extended period of time

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rather than guys that are seeing a lot of courses

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on repeat play so on this one occasion

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we thought that we do it slightly differently

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and that resulted in a lot more work

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but I think the end result uh

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was that we got a

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a true reflection of where things were at county level

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sub region country level region

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which we're talking about now GBI

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and then obviously

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the world is still to come this autumn

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so when you bring the Four Nations plus the

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the Islands together so you've got Ireland

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Scotland England Wales

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and then you've got Channel Islands

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and Isle of Man to kind of all bring in

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which makes up GBI

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and it's really difficult

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like where do you cut off Ireland

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where do you cut off Scotland

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where do you cut off England

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and do any of the islands make it in

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so this is always the the toughest part um

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like when does that course in Ireland

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become better than that course in Wales

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or when does that course in Wales

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is not quite as good as the one in Scotland

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and and that's the yeah that's why we're really glad

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we have someone like Simon hahaha

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yeah

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so I'll I'll broad broad shoulders and take the blame

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but um not at all um

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yeah it's it's it's it's very difficult I mean

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there are different ways of looking at it you can be

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you know you know

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I'm big on numbers

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and you can be fairly scientific on it and

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and say what proportion of

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of

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of the total golf courses a particular nation has and

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you know most people aren't aware that

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you know

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61% of all the golf courses in GBNI are in England

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I mean it's just a massive number of courses

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are almost 19 courses you know

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Scotland's only got 18%

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the island of Ireland north and the Republic have 16%

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uh and Wales has a very small 5% um

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and you know

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we don't curate a list to match that

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sort of scientifically um

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because you know Scotland's a home of golf

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it should over index and when you look at the top left

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top echelons of this list

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driven off the global ranking um

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Scotland clearly over indexes and should um

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and but then when you get down to those debates

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towards the bottom end um

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we spend a lot of time um

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working out how to get that balance um

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and when you do have an eye on that balance

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it makes those discussions of

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is it course a in England versus course B in Ireland

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or course C in Scotland or course d in Wales

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it makes that discussion easier not harder um

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but at each decision point um

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we've thought very carefully and rationally about those

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um and hopefully we've got a

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an output that at least is respected for that and um

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I think the output is

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it's full of 100 great golf courses for

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for for me

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when you look at the the regional rankings

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I mean your your big ones are

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the biggest one obviously is North America

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so Canada and the States

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and there might be one or two Mexican courses in there

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as well and then you've got

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I think

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Puerto Rico that's included part of the Caribbean

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so fine so those are there and I mean

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if you could play any one of the region courses

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that would be a really good one

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cause you have some pretty heavy hitters um

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but when you look at Oceania

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like New Zealand and Australia really

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really good like world class at the very

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very top and then Peter's out maybe halfway through um

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and it's dominated by Australia

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so the Australia hundred

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you know

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is punctuated by some of the New Zealand courses

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but not a lot um

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so

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you're basically looking at kind of the top hundred in

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in Australia with the really good ones from New Zealand

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but outside of North America

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I mean GBI is an unbelievable list of

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of great golf like if you had a

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if you had the opportunity to play those 100 courses

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and that was like a

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that's the list I wanna do before I die

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it would probably be more nuanced

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have more variety better value for money

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and closer to pure golf than probably any other

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regional ranking that we have uh

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it's an astonishing astonishing list of golf courses

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it is crazy isn't it

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I understand it stems from the fact that you have this

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um

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there's a massive amount of coastline in the UK

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that lends itself

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the coves that lend themselves to collect sand over a

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generate over many many a moon

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but the the fact that the number of links golf courses

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and links golf courses do dominate the uh

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GBI 100 comparatively to any other nation

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it doesn't really

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you don't see it outside of the UK that much at all

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is that just cause geography of the island

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or why is that yeah

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I think that's the case I mean yeah

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we have um

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you know considerable

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you know there are pockets of links courses clearly

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you know you look into Holland

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um has got some

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some very good links terrain

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um clearly when you

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you know you start looking uh

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on the west coast of the States

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because the Pacific is such a ocean with such energy

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just like the west coast of Ireland has

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the Atlantic with so much energy um

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you know the transitions are very um

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stark and it almost becomes cliff top or macro dunes um

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where where I think

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you know GBI is also blessed with

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you know the island of Ireland and the mainland

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of the UK has an east coast with much more benign

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uh links land as well and that

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that sort of middling links land to flat links land um

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is something that lends itself extremely well to golf

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um because you can go across it um

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00:10:19,866 --> 00:10:22,400
as well as just being in the valleys which

263
00:10:22,433 --> 00:10:23,100
you know you

264
00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:23,600
we we which

265
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,566
which we can discuss in terms of

266
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:26,833
you know architecture for

267
00:10:26,833 --> 00:10:27,666
like for example

268
00:10:27,666 --> 00:10:32,133
Burkdale was specifically designed by JH Taylor to um

269
00:10:32,466 --> 00:10:33,500
be a tournament course

270
00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:36,733
where they used the valleys so that the um

271
00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:40,100
dunes could be used for spectators um

272
00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:41,466
and in in many ways

273
00:10:41,466 --> 00:10:44,500
it's the naturalized example of alpinization

274
00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:45,600
that he did at raw

275
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,966
mid Surrey um

276
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,500
you know so um with

277
00:10:49,500 --> 00:10:50,800
with Peter Lee so

278
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,866
you know there's different reasons

279
00:10:52,866 --> 00:10:54,400
there's different types of links

280
00:10:54,466 --> 00:10:54,800
you know

281
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,800
Sam Cooper's travelled the length and breadth and

282
00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,800
security of the

283
00:11:00,033 --> 00:11:03,566
of these islands and playing all the links courses and

284
00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:04,700
you know that's a

285
00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:07,900
that's a great a great project that he did um

286
00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:10,166
and the variety even within links is so strong

287
00:11:10,166 --> 00:11:15,266
but yes we are blessed with the geology and uh the um

288
00:11:16,066 --> 00:11:17,166
you know earth movement that

289
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:18,966
that provides for great golf

290
00:11:19,633 --> 00:11:20,800
I think the other thing to

291
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,166
to talk about too is I mean if it's not

292
00:11:23,166 --> 00:11:26,466
if it's not great links then it's also heathland

293
00:11:26,966 --> 00:11:29,500
and I think heathland properly presented

294
00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:33,900
can be just as engaging as any amount of uh

295
00:11:34,266 --> 00:11:36,966
as much as links can can do uh

296
00:11:36,966 --> 00:11:37,900
and in some ways it's

297
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,633
it's got more bells and whistles than links land does

298
00:11:40,633 --> 00:11:42,300
although you do find some Heather at

299
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:44,633
at some links courses Royal County Down being one

300
00:11:44,633 --> 00:11:47,366
I guess it really stands out but um

301
00:11:47,766 --> 00:11:49,166
I think when I look over the list

302
00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,066
I see you know there

303
00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:53,266
there is the beginning of

304
00:11:53,433 --> 00:11:54,700
I think in England

305
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:56,566
as much as we talk about Parkland golf

306
00:11:56,566 --> 00:11:58,800
versus heathland golf um

307
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,800
there's actually quite a lot of Parkland

308
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,000
that has moved up from the bottom of the English

309
00:12:04,066 --> 00:12:06,866
to the top of or the

310
00:12:06,866 --> 00:12:07,866
the middle ground that it's

311
00:12:07,866 --> 00:12:10,566
it's made advancement in the ranking um

312
00:12:10,566 --> 00:12:12,366
because they're they're managing the courses really

313
00:12:12,366 --> 00:12:15,066
really well and I think even in Scotland

314
00:12:15,066 --> 00:12:17,333
a lot of the inland courses um

315
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,100
are starting to make that move as well

316
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:21,866
you know whether that's um

317
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:25,100
the um

318
00:12:25,166 --> 00:12:28,000
what was the James Braid up in the north um

319
00:12:29,233 --> 00:12:30,000
to to garden

320
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,400
no boat of garden

321
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,233
so whether it's boat of garden or maybe Lanark

322
00:12:34,233 --> 00:12:36,600
which of course is a a Moreland

323
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,300
but the inline course is getting a little bit more

324
00:12:39,366 --> 00:12:41,600
attraction and a little bit more appreciation

325
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,600
so I don't think it's a reflection of the fact that we

326
00:12:45,766 --> 00:12:47,700
have one preference over one of the other

327
00:12:47,833 --> 00:12:49,700
it's just that there's a the

328
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:50,833
the type of golf we like

329
00:12:50,833 --> 00:12:52,666
is dominated on those landscapes

330
00:12:52,666 --> 00:12:53,866
yeah very much so

331
00:12:53,866 --> 00:12:55,700
my camera's gone off so um

332
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,000
it's overheated in the Scottish sun on the YouTube

333
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,100
if everyone wants to see me uh

334
00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:03,400
in all my glory

335
00:13:03,533 --> 00:13:06,066
it's because it's too hot currently in Scotland

336
00:13:06,066 --> 00:13:08,033
which is pretty damn cool

337
00:13:08,033 --> 00:13:09,700
I have to admit ha ha

338
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,733
how often do you get to be able to claim that

339
00:13:13,066 --> 00:13:14,800
and so essentially

340
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,633
the really interesting thing that I want to talk about

341
00:13:18,633 --> 00:13:20,566
that one that everyone likes to talk about

342
00:13:20,566 --> 00:13:21,800
when it comes to these rankings

343
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,000
is the biggest fallers and the biggest risers

344
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,366
and it's let's be honest been a big shake up

345
00:13:27,366 --> 00:13:28,400
there's a lot of change

346
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,466
and why is there been a lot of change

347
00:13:30,466 --> 00:13:31,833
I actually think this is that

348
00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:34,600
there's a fair bit of change in terms of new entrance

349
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,800
um at the bottom of the list um

350
00:13:38,866 --> 00:13:41,733
but we also have new entrance coming in

351
00:13:42,266 --> 00:13:44,166
that aren't genuinely new

352
00:13:44,166 --> 00:13:46,266
so and that affects the ranking

353
00:13:46,266 --> 00:13:49,400
so you know the highest ranked new entrant

354
00:13:49,666 --> 00:13:52,100
um in this list and the

355
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:56,366
the highest new entrant is Cabot Highlands Old Petty um

356
00:13:56,466 --> 00:13:58,433
opened this year designed by Tom Dock

357
00:13:58,433 --> 00:14:00,700
built by Clyde Johnson um

358
00:14:00,966 --> 00:14:02,866
comes in at 51 um

359
00:14:02,866 --> 00:14:07,333
so that's a a notable ah and new genuinely new entrance

360
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:08,500
um

361
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,166
the second genuine new entrance is Trump International

362
00:14:11,166 --> 00:14:12,366
new um

363
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:14,766
and that comes in at 63

364
00:14:15,666 --> 00:14:19,000
and both of those courses have been actively

365
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,400
compared and previewed by

366
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,566
by by a number of people so I won't go back into that

367
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,533
and then there are the other um

368
00:14:27,966 --> 00:14:32,700
new entrants are almost the contrary of that so um

369
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,000
the highest ranked Old Course that is new to the list

370
00:14:37,233 --> 00:14:38,900
is one that really is what I

371
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,166
we would call a mispricing in the past

372
00:14:41,166 --> 00:14:47,166
so it's one where previous panels of uh have not um

373
00:14:47,566 --> 00:14:48,800
really understood its

374
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,100
its charms and that it is increasingly loved

375
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,666
and believe it or not that's Eli in 5

376
00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:04,300
and Eli comes in brand new into the GBI 100 at 54 um

377
00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:06,566
and I think it's probably

378
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,433
about the right position for it

379
00:15:08,433 --> 00:15:10,300
I think it is a wonderful golf course

380
00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:11,666
it is it you know

381
00:15:11,666 --> 00:15:13,366
many people say it doesn't have variety

382
00:15:13,366 --> 00:15:14,600
cause there's so many par fours

383
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,600
but have all of those par fours are so different

384
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,300
and you don't feel that there's a lack of variety um

385
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:24,033
probably an ambiguous concept anyway but anyway

386
00:15:24,033 --> 00:15:26,466
we'll go we'll go we can go into that um

387
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,433
but it you know clearly is become increasingly loved

388
00:15:29,433 --> 00:15:31,266
increasingly busy um

389
00:15:31,466 --> 00:15:34,000
you know the membership of a quite rightly um

390
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,466
keeping some of it to themselves in the summer

391
00:15:36,466 --> 00:15:38,500
in the peak season because it's so busy

392
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:41,966
because it really is one that has

393
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,366
really entered into the global attention

394
00:15:44,766 --> 00:15:46,066
for very good reason I mean

395
00:15:46,066 --> 00:15:48,966
the other one that's kind of like that as well is the

396
00:15:48,966 --> 00:15:50,466
the new course at Saint Andrews

397
00:15:50,766 --> 00:15:54,500
so I think for a long time the old and rightly so

398
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:57,700
it is probably from an architectural point of view

399
00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:00,666
the greatest golf course in the world um

400
00:16:00,666 --> 00:16:01,300
if you know

401
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,166
that's debatable

402
00:16:02,166 --> 00:16:05,400
probably along with about 5 to 10 other courses

403
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,000
but let's say that it it's probably a champion of that

404
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,066
um but yeah

405
00:16:10,066 --> 00:16:13,966
the new next door and it's a real shame that

406
00:16:13,966 --> 00:16:17,600
if people travel all the way to Saint Andrews

407
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,833
they play one course if they've bought a

408
00:16:19,833 --> 00:16:20,666
a package

409
00:16:21,433 --> 00:16:22,266
uh and then they

410
00:16:22,266 --> 00:16:24,300
they go off to Kings Barns or carneoustie

411
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,400
and actually what they could do is just stay ha ha ha

412
00:16:27,866 --> 00:16:28,833
right on site

413
00:16:28,833 --> 00:16:31,633
have lunch and play the second 18 in the afternoon

414
00:16:31,633 --> 00:16:34,100
and for a lot of people um

415
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:36,766
probably enjoy it or maybe understand

416
00:16:36,766 --> 00:16:37,433
the experience

417
00:16:37,433 --> 00:16:40,100
better than what they even get on the old uh

418
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,633
it's more of a traditional quote unquote links

419
00:16:42,633 --> 00:16:45,400
if there is such a thing so it

420
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,833
it's nice to see some of these like as you say uh

421
00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:50,800
under appreciated undervalued

422
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,333
underpriced um

423
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,500
courses like coming back to uh

424
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:58,266
where where they rightly belong

425
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:00,433
that's the one I love on on this list

426
00:17:00,433 --> 00:17:04,300
we have the oldest new course in the world

427
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,233
which is the new at Saint Andrews

428
00:17:06,233 --> 00:17:08,100
and we have the youngest old course

429
00:17:08,166 --> 00:17:10,800
which is the course at Trump International

430
00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:14,033
so that's a an interesting juxtaposition wow

431
00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:15,100
that is very cool isn't it

432
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:17,400
this podcast is brought to you by Echo Shoes

433
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,866
particularly the new Biom C5 David

434
00:17:19,866 --> 00:17:22,066
I know you have a wee bit of a fondness for an Echo

435
00:17:22,066 --> 00:17:22,766
yeah no

436
00:17:22,766 --> 00:17:23,166
no doubt

437
00:17:23,166 --> 00:17:25,433
I am literally a walking advertisement for Echo

438
00:17:25,433 --> 00:17:26,566
and I can honestly say

439
00:17:26,566 --> 00:17:28,400
I played the world top hundred in my echoes

440
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,800
I spent years running around

441
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,066
you know

442
00:17:30,066 --> 00:17:32,100
diving around tennis court and stuff like that for

443
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:33,400
for a really long time

444
00:17:33,433 --> 00:17:35,566
and that takes a toll because it was hard courts

445
00:17:35,666 --> 00:17:37,100
and so hard courts there's a lot of

446
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:40,300
you know things going on with your feet and and as I

447
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:42,366
when I started to get a little bit older

448
00:17:42,366 --> 00:17:43,500
not even old you know

449
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,966
like in in my 30s I had

450
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,700
you know my feet were bothering me

451
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:50,000
when I had to do long walks and stuff like that

452
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,666
I mean four and a/2 miles is the standard golf ride

453
00:17:52,766 --> 00:17:53,966
so four and a/2 miles right

454
00:17:53,966 --> 00:17:56,433
so four and a/2 miles of walking when your feet hurt

455
00:17:56,433 --> 00:17:57,966
it's the worst thing ever

456
00:17:57,966 --> 00:17:58,366
and like

457
00:17:58,366 --> 00:18:01,666
I had so many rounds where I would get done and

458
00:18:01,666 --> 00:18:04,566
you know when I first started playing golf and I just

459
00:18:04,566 --> 00:18:05,366
I couldn't take it like

460
00:18:05,366 --> 00:18:06,233
I had to get the shoes off

461
00:18:06,233 --> 00:18:08,000
and my feet were just throbbing

462
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,400
and you know I I ran into Echo probably in

463
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,900
you know 2007 2008

464
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:14,466
2009 whatever the year was

465
00:18:14,466 --> 00:18:16,800
it was before I started my journey really for the for

466
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,600
for playing the world top hundred yeah

467
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,500
as if you're doing the world's uh

468
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:21,233
top 100

469
00:18:21,233 --> 00:18:24,066
you need to be able to trust where your clubs are going

470
00:18:24,066 --> 00:18:26,400
and never get sore feet exactly

471
00:18:26,933 --> 00:18:28,900
yeah the rest you can sort out along the way

472
00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:32,833
so just a couple of uh things about the Echo BMC5

473
00:18:32,833 --> 00:18:34,666
every detail's crafted for the perfect feel

474
00:18:34,666 --> 00:18:36,000
and I know David

475
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,100
and his many adventures in golf have enjoyed

476
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:39,000
echoes over the years

477
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,066
but these have been designed to play

478
00:18:40,066 --> 00:18:41,900
and built for comfort so uh

479
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,766
thank you very much Echo appreciate it a lot

480
00:18:44,633 --> 00:18:46,200
uh yeah again I'm sorry to all

481
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,233
we've had a I'm having a nightmare here up in Scotland

482
00:18:49,233 --> 00:18:51,666
it everything's just overheating and causing trouble

483
00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:53,500
so it's melting oh

484
00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:56,100
it's it's it's 18 yeah

485
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,833
it's it's it's definitely taps off weather

486
00:18:58,833 --> 00:18:59,900
let's just say that

487
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,166
Prince Street Gardens

488
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,200
in Edinburgh has about 40 million topless Scotsman

489
00:19:07,633 --> 00:19:09,633
with drinking swaggy

490
00:19:09,633 --> 00:19:13,566
and cans of beer that they've bought in the local offy

491
00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:15,700
I would not be surprised

492
00:19:16,433 --> 00:19:19,600
it honestly will look like a scene from the south of

493
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,700
France right now

494
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,666
and one of those newest features and right OK

495
00:19:25,966 --> 00:19:29,900
so I'm sorry I missed a lot of that

496
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:33,566
I know you I lost connection when it came to Eli

497
00:19:33,566 --> 00:19:37,966
and I just trusted the fact that as a James Brad fan

498
00:19:38,466 --> 00:19:41,233
and and his birthplace or well

499
00:19:41,233 --> 00:19:44,200
Earl's Ferry but every it's the same time I

500
00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:47,633
you would only say nice things

501
00:19:47,633 --> 00:19:51,500
and that's fine with me because everyone knows

502
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,633
you know you are taking a little bit of a liberty

503
00:19:54,633 --> 00:19:56,200
cause he was born in Liberty

504
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,366
which is next to Elsferry um

505
00:19:58,366 --> 00:19:58,833
but anyway

506
00:19:58,833 --> 00:20:03,666
I'm joking I'm full of the really bad dad puns today um

507
00:20:03,666 --> 00:20:07,266
so we yeah um yeah we did we we we yeah

508
00:20:07,266 --> 00:20:10,533
braid proposed works at Eli but um

509
00:20:10,633 --> 00:20:12,866
it's a moot point as to whether anything

510
00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:14,200
was ever put in place and in fact

511
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,500
that the members voted down formally twice his plan um

512
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,400
both in I think the 30s and the 50s um

513
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,866
but yeah the Ely is a wonderful golf course

514
00:20:23,966 --> 00:20:26,100
the members do claim one green though

515
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:28,666
am I right in saying they claim that braids greens

516
00:20:28,666 --> 00:20:32,466
the would it be 12/13 12

517
00:20:32,466 --> 00:20:35,300
um yeah yeah it did it did again

518
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:37,900
it's something I need to dig deeper into um

519
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:39,333
when I return there um

520
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:40,700
um the other thing

521
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,566
I did discover this last year in my research

522
00:20:43,566 --> 00:20:47,033
is that he actually designed the course next door

523
00:20:47,033 --> 00:20:48,800
which is called the Bad Course

524
00:20:49,366 --> 00:20:53,600
because it was set on land owned by a Mr Beard um

525
00:20:53,633 --> 00:20:56,000
which was Ely Ladies Course

526
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,566
which is now Ely Sports Club

527
00:20:58,666 --> 00:21:00,966
the nine hole he designed that

528
00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:03,000
it's very interesting

529
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,366
and it's virtually as he designed uh

530
00:21:05,466 --> 00:21:08,433
another example of brave designing a ladies course uh

531
00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:09,500
which is interesting anyway

532
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:09,766
let's

533
00:21:09,766 --> 00:21:12,466
this is not the James Brad Show we should move on um

534
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:16,000
and um yes so the last one of the sort of um

535
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,733
new entrance of

536
00:21:17,866 --> 00:21:20,266
established courses that maybe have changed

537
00:21:20,266 --> 00:21:21,833
and this one's changed in routing

538
00:21:21,833 --> 00:21:24,100
for fairly notable reasons I

539
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,500
e the open um

540
00:21:25,566 --> 00:21:27,366
in at No. 81 is uh

541
00:21:27,366 --> 00:21:29,800
Robert Rush the Valley Course um

542
00:21:29,866 --> 00:21:31,100
which had um

543
00:21:31,233 --> 00:21:32,600
lost some holes to the Open

544
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,266
Championship course to Dunluce uh

545
00:21:35,266 --> 00:21:38,100
and has been moved around a little bit to

546
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:41,200
enable more practice more tented village and um

547
00:21:42,033 --> 00:21:42,766
uh actually

548
00:21:42,766 --> 00:21:45,166
you know a short course for the children as well um

549
00:21:45,233 --> 00:21:47,333
which is a a welcome thing um

550
00:21:47,466 --> 00:21:49,933
but that comes in at No. 81

551
00:21:49,966 --> 00:21:51,500
so and there are some more

552
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:52,500
entrance at the bottom of the list

553
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:54,533
but those we can get to later

554
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,700
and so yeah it's good to see that representative

555
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:00,000
I mean four from Scotland

556
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,933
one from Ireland and I think we're at

557
00:22:06,233 --> 00:22:08,466
well let's see 7

558
00:22:08,633 --> 00:22:10,666
7 from England which we can get to in a little bit

559
00:22:10,666 --> 00:22:13,000
so there definitely has been some change

560
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,300
I think that's the thing to note too

561
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:15,100
is that

562
00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:17,166
you know when you get to the GBI

563
00:22:17,166 --> 00:22:19,466
everything that you do at county level is amplified

564
00:22:19,466 --> 00:22:21,300
every time you go up or down

565
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,766
so although there's not really much in it

566
00:22:23,766 --> 00:22:27,000
between old petty Eli um

567
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,800
and Trump International new

568
00:22:30,233 --> 00:22:32,133
um there is a bit of a spread

569
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,866
about 12 points or 12 ranking places um

570
00:22:35,866 --> 00:22:37,166
between them once you get to GBN

571
00:22:37,166 --> 00:22:39,666
I just because of the way it works

572
00:22:39,666 --> 00:22:41,700
and the competition that they find the

573
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:43,800
the tier they find themselves in

574
00:22:44,033 --> 00:22:46,766
so if it's a particularly strong English tier

575
00:22:46,866 --> 00:22:48,700
or the top end of it you've got quite

576
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:51,800
a lot of like really good Irish courses yeah

577
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,600
um

578
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:54,600
that's where you can get that spread

579
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,000
so although it's one or two difference in Scotland

580
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,300
by the time you get to GBI and then even the world

581
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:02,000
you know you can be talking five to 10 places

582
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,766
and then maybe even more when you get to the world

583
00:23:03,766 --> 00:23:06,066
so yeah very interesting to see how that will pan out

584
00:23:06,066 --> 00:23:07,433
in terms of the biggest movers

585
00:23:07,433 --> 00:23:08,666
we'll come to those English

586
00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:10,300
new entrance in a wee while

587
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:12,533
we'll do a little bit of the movers um

588
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,500
the notable movers probably that that the as I said

589
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,266
the top 30

590
00:23:17,266 --> 00:23:19,633
is very much prescribed from the global list

591
00:23:19,633 --> 00:23:22,266
which will be refreshed in in autumn

592
00:23:22,366 --> 00:23:24,500
so there may be a slight rejig of this

593
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:26,900
and the other country lists uh

594
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:28,000
at that time

595
00:23:28,566 --> 00:23:30,600
um due to being pushed down on that

596
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,866
which is which is fine

597
00:23:31,866 --> 00:23:33,200
we're pushing up in this process

598
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,033
we're gonna push down in the other process

599
00:23:35,033 --> 00:23:37,366
it's a two directional thing um

600
00:23:37,366 --> 00:23:39,600
but the most notable climber

601
00:23:39,766 --> 00:23:41,300
higher in the list is Formby

602
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:42,500
which comes um

603
00:23:42,566 --> 00:23:47,466
up 13 places to 39 and we discuss that on the

604
00:23:47,466 --> 00:23:49,700
the English pod and County

605
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,200
Louth has a nice move up about 8 points

606
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,600
and by far the largest climber

607
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,400
and again this is somewhat of a historic mispricing

608
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,700
or miss misunderrating of its charms

609
00:24:01,266 --> 00:24:05,400
and this one you will not be surprised of my uh

610
00:24:05,666 --> 00:24:07,033
joy at um

611
00:24:07,033 --> 00:24:09,000
but as I say I'm only one 1 vote in a

612
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000
in a system is Bruro in Scotland uh

613
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,033
which climbs an incredible 40 points in this analysis

614
00:24:15,033 --> 00:24:17,333
and is by far the biggest mover um

615
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,266
to 59 um

616
00:24:19,366 --> 00:24:20,466
and um

617
00:24:21,066 --> 00:24:21,866
you know

618
00:24:23,033 --> 00:24:23,766
I'll I'll let

619
00:24:23,766 --> 00:24:25,766
let you guys um uh uh uh

620
00:24:26,366 --> 00:24:28,100
talk about Bora because um

621
00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:30,100
I don't wish to be seen to be biased

622
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:32,700
I absolutely love it and I think

623
00:24:32,766 --> 00:24:33,900
I think they've recently

624
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:35,900
voted to remove the livestock from the links

625
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:38,400
haven't they it's still in discussion

626
00:24:38,966 --> 00:24:40,166
it's still in discussion okay

627
00:24:40,166 --> 00:24:41,866
so I can I can

628
00:24:41,866 --> 00:24:43,466
we can go deep into detail

629
00:24:43,466 --> 00:24:44,566
but we don't have enough time

630
00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:47,766
the bros stuff it's an amazing golf course yes

631
00:24:47,766 --> 00:24:52,133
it's cool to see a cow but that's not a

632
00:24:52,766 --> 00:24:54,100
it's not what we rate on

633
00:24:54,266 --> 00:24:57,600
the worst job of all is being the intern green keeper

634
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,733
and with out with a shit a

635
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,466
a shovel and a bucket and that's your morning anyway

636
00:25:03,466 --> 00:25:05,833
so but it deserves to be up there

637
00:25:05,833 --> 00:25:08,066
because it's been recognized

638
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,566
repeatedly by all our panelists to somewhere

639
00:25:11,566 --> 00:25:12,966
they love to play golf

640
00:25:13,766 --> 00:25:14,566
yes in many ways

641
00:25:14,566 --> 00:25:17,133
I think the livestock actually um

642
00:25:17,433 --> 00:25:20,300
masks its architectural strength agree

643
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:21,233
I think that's true

644
00:25:21,233 --> 00:25:23,600
I think it's very good for its marketing

645
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,433
I think it's great and it's great for turf conditions

646
00:25:26,433 --> 00:25:26,866
and you know

647
00:25:26,866 --> 00:25:29,100
it's actually and you know

648
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:30,200
certainly the sheep manage

649
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,400
rough is as good as I've played all last year

650
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,066
um when I actually went up for the James

651
00:25:36,066 --> 00:25:38,100
Brad Society meeting um

652
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:40,700
and yeah just a joy to play um

653
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,166
in that respect so

654
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,000
there's a very positive aspect to the livestock

655
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,100
in terms of how it plays and how firm it is

656
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,733
and how playable the rough is um

657
00:25:49,066 --> 00:25:49,500
but yeah

658
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,900
I do think sometimes it gets overshadowed as to how

659
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:54,733
quite how good a design it is

660
00:25:55,266 --> 00:25:56,433
and I know we've

661
00:25:56,433 --> 00:25:58,500
we've moved definitely past English counties

662
00:25:58,500 --> 00:25:59,966
and English but I mean

663
00:25:59,966 --> 00:26:02,033
the other course that like

664
00:26:02,033 --> 00:26:05,100
I just go back to my beloved Minchinhampton it

665
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:07,100
it is such an astonishing golf course

666
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,366
and I think no one takes it seriously because yeah

667
00:26:09,366 --> 00:26:10,800
there is like about

668
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,266
six different types of livestock

669
00:26:12,266 --> 00:26:15,366
that you'll come across plus dogs yeah um

670
00:26:15,366 --> 00:26:16,866
and birds once you

671
00:26:16,866 --> 00:26:18,466
once you get out there and it's sort of like well

672
00:26:18,466 --> 00:26:20,466
this is really really good golf um

673
00:26:20,466 --> 00:26:21,633
but you can't really take it seriously

674
00:26:21,633 --> 00:26:23,300
because there's a few like

675
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:25,000
animals roaming around and

676
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,433
and I think to your point

677
00:26:26,433 --> 00:26:28,966
that's maybe where we got to in the past where

678
00:26:29,266 --> 00:26:31,700
you know if it wasn't a polished resort offering

679
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:33,000
then it didn't do quite as well

680
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,166
but those days seem to be um

681
00:26:35,433 --> 00:26:38,466
well and truly behind us at top 100 so yeah

682
00:26:38,466 --> 00:26:40,466
Aurora well and truly um

683
00:26:40,466 --> 00:26:42,500
do you know deserves to be where it is Jasper

684
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:43,233
do you know where

685
00:26:43,233 --> 00:26:46,400
I think the next golf course that's gonna join the Eli

686
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,833
this is me future sighting

687
00:26:48,833 --> 00:26:51,533
a golf course that's gonna join the Eli Brora

688
00:26:52,166 --> 00:26:56,266
Epsom's of just seriously good golf on great land

689
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,800
and I was shocked that didn't make the G P

690
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,700
and I was is Goswick I

691
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:04,100
I don't think people realize

692
00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:05,900
how good that golf course is

693
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:09,333
and there's been work just finished there

694
00:27:09,833 --> 00:27:13,800
and it's just a shame that it's not quite in this go

695
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,700
reach this cycle

696
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:18,766
it's just finished and to take away their worst hole

697
00:27:18,766 --> 00:27:20,700
but the rest of it is so good yeah

698
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:22,866
I think you're you're right to highlight it

699
00:27:22,866 --> 00:27:25,200
it very definitely was a candidate for this list

700
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,300
clubs that um

701
00:27:27,033 --> 00:27:28,300
ah near misses

702
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,700
near misses in Ireland were Naran

703
00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:32,600
and Port New was in the last list

704
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,400
and um

705
00:27:34,033 --> 00:27:36,366
ah comes out this time um

706
00:27:36,566 --> 00:27:39,233
Port Salon was pretty close uh

707
00:27:39,233 --> 00:27:41,100
Ballydehob Old was pretty close

708
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,500
so there's three in Ireland there that were very

709
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,700
under serious consideration um

710
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:48,700
by the ranking output um

711
00:27:49,266 --> 00:27:52,966
in Scotland uh the Queen's at Gleneagles

712
00:27:53,633 --> 00:27:56,366
Boat of Garten which we mentioned already

713
00:27:56,366 --> 00:27:58,766
Lanark which we mentioned already um

714
00:27:58,766 --> 00:28:00,766
and then you got Murcia and Panmure

715
00:28:00,766 --> 00:28:03,500
so those courses are banging the door down

716
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:04,766
trying to get uh

717
00:28:04,766 --> 00:28:10,900
in um in Wales Conwy was the next next one standing uh

718
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:15,500
for consideration and then in England you have um

719
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,500
you know the refresh went with Club East Course

720
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:22,933
which a Harry Colt gem that Robin Hisman's done some

721
00:28:23,433 --> 00:28:25,333
renovation work on recently

722
00:28:25,966 --> 00:28:30,000
a Farnham New Zealand which is just charming um

723
00:28:30,166 --> 00:28:31,900
you know obviously um

724
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:35,133
you know some of your more Ferguson

725
00:28:35,633 --> 00:28:38,366
followed by the great Tom Simpson uh

726
00:28:38,366 --> 00:28:40,000
gosick as you said

727
00:28:40,033 --> 00:28:41,866
Delamere Forest which again is

728
00:28:41,866 --> 00:28:43,600
you know wonderful um

729
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:44,700
and uh

730
00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:46,700
the West Coast at Saulton uh

731
00:28:46,766 --> 00:28:49,166
was very much banging the door down

732
00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:52,666
so there's just great quality not on the list

733
00:28:52,666 --> 00:28:55,700
and I could probably give you another 25 below

734
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,100
those that are very similar um

735
00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:00,000
such as the strength in GBN

736
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,700
I well

737
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:03,666
with the way that we now format the list

738
00:29:03,666 --> 00:29:05,900
and the way that we bring it all together

739
00:29:06,033 --> 00:29:08,966
it kind of works in the way that we know what our next

740
00:29:09,833 --> 00:29:12,400
you know 10 possibilities are

741
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,600
next 20 possibilities are

742
00:29:14,766 --> 00:29:16,166
it's quite obvious to us

743
00:29:16,166 --> 00:29:20,233
and that makes for sad reading for someone like myself

744
00:29:20,233 --> 00:29:23,400
who's a number of those courses think

745
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,200
I just don't understand why they're not loved more and

746
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:28,600
but it does show

747
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,700
that the strength of the bottom 10 is huge

748
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,166
and I think that's probably the hardest section of any

749
00:29:35,166 --> 00:29:37,600
uh any ranking is the bottom 10

750
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,033
I think that's that's true

751
00:29:39,033 --> 00:29:39,933
and the

752
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,900
it's the same in all sports right

753
00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:45,000
if you've got promotion and relegation

754
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,800
it's uh

755
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,433
it's keenly fought over so uh

756
00:29:48,433 --> 00:29:49,400
I think uh

757
00:29:49,833 --> 00:29:50,433
I'll uh

758
00:29:50,433 --> 00:29:50,900
I'll I'll

759
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:52,100
I'll move it over to

760
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:54,833
to Jasper to start this part of the discussion

761
00:29:54,833 --> 00:29:56,466
and then I'll dive in as the

762
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:57,633
as he as he

763
00:29:57,633 --> 00:29:59,100
as he gives me opportunity

764
00:29:59,200 --> 00:29:59,700
ha ha yeah

765
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:01,600
so the the bottom 10

766
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:02,466
I mean this is

767
00:30:02,466 --> 00:30:03,800
it's obviously uh

768
00:30:03,966 --> 00:30:05,033
you know as you say

769
00:30:05,033 --> 00:30:06,600
once you get promoted or relegated

770
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,000
there's a lot that goes on in that

771
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,966
that last section or last tier

772
00:30:09,966 --> 00:30:11,700
if you will um

773
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:13,200
so we've got eight from England

774
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,666
and this is where the depth of England

775
00:30:14,666 --> 00:30:17,300
starts to take over so once you get down to

776
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:19,866
like the last 20 courses in this ranking

777
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:20,600
uh the

778
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,900
the GBI ranking the depth that you see in England

779
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:26,333
really comes to the fore um

780
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:30,900
so you've got one from uh

781
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:33,566
Wales and that's Aberdovey um

782
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:36,733
and then you've also got Castletown

783
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:38,533
so that's uh

784
00:30:38,566 --> 00:30:42,433
was I think included for in previous rankings uh

785
00:30:42,433 --> 00:30:47,066
on GBI and then has more or less retained where it was

786
00:30:47,066 --> 00:30:48,833
um so yeah

787
00:30:48,833 --> 00:30:50,766
a really good golf course um

788
00:30:50,766 --> 00:30:52,100
not many people have seen it

789
00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:53,533
a handful uh

790
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:54,966
get over there

791
00:30:54,966 --> 00:30:58,233
there's quite a lot of golf on the islands actually um

792
00:30:58,233 --> 00:30:58,900
once you get over there

793
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:01,266
but Castle Town is heads and shoulders above the rest

794
00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:04,666
and it is a a pretty striking piece of land um

795
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,666
there's a lot of coastline just because of the

796
00:31:07,666 --> 00:31:10,400
the position of the course um

797
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,900
and I think they are keen to

798
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:15,766
to do a little bit of work as well moving forward uh

799
00:31:15,766 --> 00:31:18,666
because I think I've heard that the

800
00:31:18,666 --> 00:31:21,366
the the hotel that used to sit in ruins behind

801
00:31:21,366 --> 00:31:25,200
beside the clubhouse is now being torn down

802
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,500
or has been torn down and they've got grand plans

803
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:29,066
to put something else up there

804
00:31:29,133 --> 00:31:30,766
and no doubt with the investment that's going in

805
00:31:30,766 --> 00:31:33,000
they wanna make it uh match this

806
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:33,600
the the course

807
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,633
the stature of whatever they've got planned so yeah

808
00:31:35,633 --> 00:31:37,166
Castle Town is uh

809
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:39,066
is quite exciting

810
00:31:39,666 --> 00:31:39,866
uh to

811
00:31:39,866 --> 00:31:42,166
to see it there but also to see what the future holds

812
00:31:42,366 --> 00:31:46,100
and then you get down to I mean just some class acts

813
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:47,100
uh Albert is one to

814
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:49,100
to look out for uh

815
00:31:49,166 --> 00:31:51,100
they've done quite a lot of work

816
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:53,100
I think there is one hole on the course that Mackenzie

817
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:55,100
Neibert didn't touch uh

818
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,366
which was a a cult on the back nine

819
00:31:57,366 --> 00:32:00,700
now you you've got uh

820
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,166
Simon and Jasper here with you

821
00:32:02,166 --> 00:32:05,566
so we won't go too far into

822
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:05,966
you know

823
00:32:05,966 --> 00:32:09,433
the traditionalist side of how much has been changed

824
00:32:09,433 --> 00:32:12,700
and why but I think any of the

825
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,566
any of the reports that we've heard back

826
00:32:15,566 --> 00:32:19,566
is that it's anything but homogeneous um

827
00:32:19,866 --> 00:32:20,900
the bunkers actually

828
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:23,400
look different than a lot of stuff that you see them uh

829
00:32:23,433 --> 00:32:25,166
playing and I don't know

830
00:32:25,166 --> 00:32:26,766
I don't think there's a lot of sand traps

831
00:32:26,766 --> 00:32:28,866
which they've become known for recently

832
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,700
so Al Bura looks to be very good

833
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:34,066
I'm getting there sometime next month

834
00:32:34,066 --> 00:32:35,633
I believe um

835
00:32:35,633 --> 00:32:38,366
but the panelist that we did have uh

836
00:32:38,366 --> 00:32:40,700
to see it already obviously seen

837
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,266
felt that it should rise in England

838
00:32:42,266 --> 00:32:45,366
and it's got its way into GBI

839
00:32:46,066 --> 00:32:48,100
I think some of the other ones as well uh

840
00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:51,766
Bo desert just sneaks in at 100 uh

841
00:32:51,766 --> 00:32:52,700
and that's a course that

842
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:54,966
I think we'll continue to see rise

843
00:32:54,966 --> 00:32:58,166
they've done some amazing work with trees um

844
00:32:58,233 --> 00:33:01,833
and renovation restoration

845
00:33:01,833 --> 00:33:02,700
if you will

846
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,566
so that's been a steady riser

847
00:33:05,566 --> 00:33:07,100
but I think it's one of those courses that

848
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:08,300
the more people go to see it

849
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:09,800
and the more they play it

850
00:33:10,233 --> 00:33:12,466
we'll start to realize how good it actually is

851
00:33:12,466 --> 00:33:14,066
it's a great example of um

852
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,500
what is actually

853
00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:19,066
handful of courses by the great Herbert Fowler um

854
00:33:19,366 --> 00:33:20,266
and um

855
00:33:20,266 --> 00:33:23,266
and for that we're we're truly blessed that it's a

856
00:33:24,366 --> 00:33:25,500
that it's there in in it

857
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:26,066
in it in it

858
00:33:26,066 --> 00:33:28,100
in its own instance but um

859
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:29,966
that it can make the list is uh

860
00:33:29,966 --> 00:33:31,533
is there by right um

861
00:33:31,566 --> 00:33:34,500
but it's nice to celebrate one of the great architects

862
00:33:34,666 --> 00:33:37,200
I think one of the best short fours in

863
00:33:37,466 --> 00:33:38,966
in golf I mean

864
00:33:38,966 --> 00:33:39,633
it is it

865
00:33:39,633 --> 00:33:42,066
it is like a a par three and a/2

866
00:33:42,066 --> 00:33:44,900
if you've ever it's about 2:40 from the tee

867
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:47,666
and if you don't try and go for the green um

868
00:33:47,666 --> 00:33:49,966
you still have to hit a really good shot as a layup it

869
00:33:49,966 --> 00:33:51,866
it's a spectacular hole uh

870
00:33:51,866 --> 00:33:53,700
that is worth going on its own uh

871
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:54,500
and then 18

872
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,800
might be one of the better finishing holes in

873
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,166
in all of England golf um wow

874
00:33:59,166 --> 00:34:00,866
yeah cracking golf course

875
00:34:00,866 --> 00:34:03,366
and I think hayling is probably similar

876
00:34:03,633 --> 00:34:05,933
I think Hayling's been an underappreciated

877
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,433
links course on the south of England

878
00:34:07,433 --> 00:34:08,866
just because there's not a lot there

879
00:34:08,866 --> 00:34:10,133
I mean after Rye

880
00:34:11,366 --> 00:34:11,800
basically

881
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,866
you have to get to Cornwall to find anything of note

882
00:34:13,866 --> 00:34:16,166
so I think Helen finally cracks in

883
00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:18,166
but that's just after years of of effort

884
00:34:18,166 --> 00:34:20,333
I know one of our panelists is uh

885
00:34:20,433 --> 00:34:25,000
organizes uh the English Golf Amateur events and um

886
00:34:25,266 --> 00:34:29,400
they've got a event at a Bodega this year

887
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,866
and he's really excited to see it against these guys

888
00:34:33,866 --> 00:34:37,233
cause he's saying it's very short comparatively

889
00:34:37,233 --> 00:34:38,500
but it's gonna be complex

890
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,033
and it's gonna be difficult for these guys

891
00:34:40,033 --> 00:34:41,800
to be able to manoeuvre

892
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,733
and understand how to play there

893
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:45,033
which is exciting yeah

894
00:34:45,033 --> 00:34:46,966
that is exciting and the other

895
00:34:46,966 --> 00:34:47,966
the other ones in the

896
00:34:47,966 --> 00:34:50,666
the bottom of the list from England that have uh

897
00:34:50,666 --> 00:34:51,600
have come in

898
00:34:53,066 --> 00:34:55,000
the wonderful we spoke about Fowler

899
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:55,833
Walton Heath

900
00:34:55,833 --> 00:34:59,200
New Course was originally the Relief Course

901
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,600
nine holes designed by Fowler

902
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,666
and another nine holes by Fowler and braid

903
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,866
and that's that's in

904
00:35:08,266 --> 00:35:11,500
another one that tends to be overlooked um

905
00:35:11,633 --> 00:35:13,733
not overlooked that's wrong um

906
00:35:13,966 --> 00:35:18,000
maybe not given the sort of headlines that

907
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,866
that it should um

908
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,466
because the England's golf coast is so strong

909
00:35:23,466 --> 00:35:25,800
is Southport and Ainsdale um

910
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,866
and the team there are doing an incredible job

911
00:35:28,966 --> 00:35:31,100
of improving playing conditions

912
00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:34,333
and doing a renovation work

913
00:35:34,566 --> 00:35:36,200
and majority internally

914
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,500
majority of that is being done internally

915
00:35:38,833 --> 00:35:41,566
and being done with great care and

916
00:35:41,566 --> 00:35:46,866
and the playing surfaces consequently um

917
00:35:47,166 --> 00:35:51,466
are a joy to play on in terms of what we look for um

918
00:35:51,466 --> 00:35:52,800
they're true to the links land

919
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,666
and great variety of holes and

920
00:35:55,866 --> 00:35:58,566
you know the wonderfully named Gumbies um

921
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,966
which is a a par 5 on the back nine with an enormous um

922
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:07,300
you know sleeper faced bunker set into a hill for a a

923
00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:08,733
a blind approach

924
00:36:09,233 --> 00:36:12,466
and that puts the fear of god into many a person um

925
00:36:12,466 --> 00:36:14,900
so yeah great that that

926
00:36:14,966 --> 00:36:17,666
you know comes into the list at 95 and

927
00:36:17,666 --> 00:36:19,300
and joins its uh it's

928
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:21,433
it's it's neighbours uh

929
00:36:21,433 --> 00:36:23,100
there Southbourne end of Dale

930
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:28,233
just quickly and yes 11:59 no sorry

931
00:36:28,233 --> 00:36:31,366
one to 10 or no eleven

932
00:36:32,266 --> 00:36:32,833
yeah is

933
00:36:32,833 --> 00:36:36,800
is arguably better stretch of golf than the three

934
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,900
the two courses next to it in terms of Hillside and um

935
00:36:41,366 --> 00:36:42,266
a Berkdale

936
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,233
but yeah it's that section that just

937
00:36:45,233 --> 00:36:47,766
in the back nine that lets it down so much

938
00:36:47,766 --> 00:36:50,500
because it is the golf and uh

939
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:50,966
on that

940
00:36:50,966 --> 00:36:54,100
and the clubhouse side of the property is incredible

941
00:36:54,866 --> 00:36:57,100
the the variety is so good

942
00:36:57,100 --> 00:36:57,833
yeah I think yeah

943
00:36:57,833 --> 00:36:59,066
is it I think is it the eighth

944
00:36:59,066 --> 00:37:01,300
the part 3 which is just phenomenal

945
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,200
um yeah

946
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:02,433
no it

947
00:37:02,433 --> 00:37:02,600
it it

948
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,800
it has got great variety

949
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,166
and there was a couple of reroutings done

950
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,800
Bray designed it um

951
00:37:09,033 --> 00:37:10,266
you know earlier in the in

952
00:37:10,266 --> 00:37:12,066
in the last century um

953
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:14,566
it's held two Ryder Cups back when they

954
00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:17,266
chose good courses for Ryder Cups um

955
00:37:17,266 --> 00:37:21,033
and the um that's unfair

956
00:37:21,033 --> 00:37:22,500
when we now choose a tournament course

957
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,300
as opposed to a bad course um

958
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,000
you know we choose courses that are set for the event

959
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,466
rather than for the golf um

960
00:37:30,466 --> 00:37:31,766
and um

961
00:37:32,466 --> 00:37:34,266
yeah it is really a uh

962
00:37:34,633 --> 00:37:38,233
a fantastic uh a fantastic edition um

963
00:37:38,233 --> 00:37:39,500
and then the other two uh

964
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:42,300
Royal Ashdown Forest um Bunker's um

965
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:45,266
and charming uh and Heneage um

966
00:37:45,266 --> 00:37:47,033
which um you know

967
00:37:47,033 --> 00:37:50,866
probably is the the most valid heathland course um

968
00:37:51,033 --> 00:37:51,500
in in

969
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,366
in the area in terms of

970
00:37:53,366 --> 00:37:56,000
really being quite constrained in its playing areas

971
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,100
and therefore

972
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,833
that claustrophobia gives it a certain quiet charm

973
00:37:59,833 --> 00:38:02,533
that is a quite unique um

974
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,266
and uh

975
00:38:03,266 --> 00:38:06,966
and well regarded well quite well regarded for that um

976
00:38:07,233 --> 00:38:09,433
I do know that it was a Peter Alice

977
00:38:09,433 --> 00:38:11,933
one of Peter Alice's favourite courses um

978
00:38:12,033 --> 00:38:13,100
back when he was with us

979
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:16,000
and he would wax lyrical about a great deal of things

980
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,233
but certainly about Hindhead

981
00:38:17,233 --> 00:38:19,633
it's an interesting thing to to look at too

982
00:38:19,633 --> 00:38:20,833
when you look at these courses

983
00:38:20,833 --> 00:38:22,566
I mean inevitably I get a

984
00:38:22,566 --> 00:38:24,066
an inbox full of a

985
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:28,033
either glowing letters of appreciation for the ranking

986
00:38:28,033 --> 00:38:29,600
and I say yep

987
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,166
that's the panel so you know I will pass it on uh

988
00:38:33,166 --> 00:38:35,100
and then inevitably um

989
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:39,066
we also get um fan mail of a different tone

990
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,500
with courses that have fallen out

991
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:42,633
now that that could be at any ranking

992
00:38:42,633 --> 00:38:44,733
whether that's county country or

993
00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,700
or GBI or potentially even the world

994
00:38:47,966 --> 00:38:49,700
and that's just the hazards of the job

995
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:50,633
what's interesting though

996
00:38:50,633 --> 00:38:51,866
is that when you look through those

997
00:38:51,866 --> 00:38:55,066
say last 20 courses that are in GBI

998
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,000
the vast majority of them

999
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,566
have had good management of their golf courses

1000
00:39:00,433 --> 00:39:02,133
over decades

1001
00:39:02,633 --> 00:39:05,666
so they haven't needed to do loads of work

1002
00:39:05,666 --> 00:39:07,433
because they've had good hygiene programs

1003
00:39:07,433 --> 00:39:11,166
but a lot of the courses that have nudged their way in

1004
00:39:11,266 --> 00:39:13,366
have done a lot of work

1005
00:39:13,366 --> 00:39:18,700
good work and predominantly around things like um

1006
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,266
yeah restoration

1007
00:39:20,266 --> 00:39:21,800
proper restoration um

1008
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,700
Morton is one that sticks out

1009
00:39:23,766 --> 00:39:25,866
it was in previously um

1010
00:39:25,866 --> 00:39:28,766
but moves up slightly to 91 on the

1011
00:39:28,766 --> 00:39:29,766
the new ranking

1012
00:39:29,966 --> 00:39:32,600
a lot of that is down to the work that's been done

1013
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,166
to restore what uh

1014
00:39:34,366 --> 00:39:35,166
well

1015
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,666
Alister Mackenzie had there originally

1016
00:39:37,666 --> 00:39:39,866
where it made sense um

1017
00:39:39,866 --> 00:39:40,966
there have been some structural

1018
00:39:40,966 --> 00:39:42,833
changes to that golf course um

1019
00:39:42,833 --> 00:39:44,200
but then in other places too

1020
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,833
they've been able to make good changes in line with uh

1021
00:39:48,833 --> 00:39:50,966
what's been done so yeah

1022
00:39:50,966 --> 00:39:53,500
responsible restoration that is not homogenist

1023
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:54,833
that adds a little bit of character

1024
00:39:54,833 --> 00:39:56,466
and then you see courses like Morton

1025
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,766
being rewarded for it um

1026
00:39:58,766 --> 00:39:59,866
yeah it's good to see

1027
00:39:59,866 --> 00:40:00,666
but it just shows

1028
00:40:00,666 --> 00:40:03,666
that our rankings are trying to be a reflection of

1029
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:06,200
good architectural design

1030
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,933
but then also coupled with proper agronomy

1031
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:13,400
tree management good

1032
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,166
good management of Heather where

1033
00:40:15,166 --> 00:40:16,366
where it exists

1034
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:17,500
um and

1035
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:18,766
and presenting a course

1036
00:40:18,766 --> 00:40:20,866
bringing all three of those cogs together

1037
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:21,566
um to

1038
00:40:21,566 --> 00:40:22,600
to make sure that it's

1039
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,466
it's dialed in and to be on this list you need to be

1040
00:40:25,566 --> 00:40:28,066
and maybe that's something to say if you're here

1041
00:40:28,833 --> 00:40:30,066
it's not an accident you

1042
00:40:30,066 --> 00:40:32,700
there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into

1043
00:40:33,033 --> 00:40:35,666
like collectively at a golf club getting on this list

1044
00:40:35,666 --> 00:40:37,900
I do I do want to say that

1045
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:39,500
I think you're wrong about one thing

1046
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:42,466
on what you just said and that's uh

1047
00:40:43,166 --> 00:40:45,666
after speaking to you or or on the

1048
00:40:45,666 --> 00:40:46,800
when the rankings get released

1049
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,866
and all the things come through and uh

1050
00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:52,366
all these messages of love and hate come through

1051
00:40:53,233 --> 00:40:54,500
normally on the phone you're like

1052
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:55,666
when the love comes through

1053
00:40:55,666 --> 00:40:56,266
it's like oh

1054
00:40:56,266 --> 00:40:57,433
it's all my all me

1055
00:40:57,433 --> 00:40:59,566
all me I did all of that

1056
00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:01,000
and then the heat comes through

1057
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,233
you instantly say well

1058
00:41:02,233 --> 00:41:04,866
the panels it's panel panel panel yeah

1059
00:41:05,066 --> 00:41:06,100
yeah it's a panel

1060
00:41:06,233 --> 00:41:09,033
so yeah proper management strategy that

1061
00:41:09,033 --> 00:41:11,200
so no it's like a great dog for it

1062
00:41:11,366 --> 00:41:12,600
it's proper management

1063
00:41:13,466 --> 00:41:14,266
that's great

1064
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:18,066
I'll be I'll step in and be protective of my panels

1065
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:19,566
and I know you're

1066
00:41:19,633 --> 00:41:22,733
I know you're protective of yours James as well and

1067
00:41:23,166 --> 00:41:25,300
and uh yeah

1068
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,833
it is a it is a function of of

1069
00:41:27,833 --> 00:41:29,400
of the group so um

1070
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,733
we share in the plaudits and the pain um

1071
00:41:31,966 --> 00:41:33,733
if need be um

1072
00:41:34,066 --> 00:41:35,366
quite quite happily

1073
00:41:35,366 --> 00:41:37,633
um the other consistent theme in this

1074
00:41:37,633 --> 00:41:38,800
that we've spoke about a

1075
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,100
bit on the English list is the difficulty of

1076
00:41:42,266 --> 00:41:45,966
inland courses being able to maintain

1077
00:41:46,266 --> 00:41:48,233
firm and fast conditions in the plain

1078
00:41:48,233 --> 00:41:51,766
characteristics of their original design and um

1079
00:41:52,066 --> 00:41:55,766
and we've had a few of the sort of more um

1080
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,466
inland courses um slip back a bit in the list um

1081
00:42:00,633 --> 00:42:03,266
you know like went with west for example

1082
00:42:03,266 --> 00:42:06,800
comes down a bit even a course with unbelievable

1083
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,566
deep pockets and great things to come

1084
00:42:09,566 --> 00:42:10,266
clearly

1085
00:42:10,266 --> 00:42:13,966
a Dare Manor slips in the list by about 16 points

1086
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,233
and again we've said this before

1087
00:42:16,233 --> 00:42:18,166
doesn't mean that they're terrible golf courses

1088
00:42:18,166 --> 00:42:19,500
that they've moved down

1089
00:42:19,566 --> 00:42:22,400
it's just really hard to keep um

1090
00:42:22,466 --> 00:42:23,433
those conditions

1091
00:42:23,433 --> 00:42:26,533
and keep the appreciation of those conditions um

1092
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,700
for the panel um and um

1093
00:42:29,866 --> 00:42:31,600
you know that we you know

1094
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,300
when it comes to something like a dare and Wentworth

1095
00:42:34,366 --> 00:42:36,200
um tournament golf

1096
00:42:36,566 --> 00:42:38,933
and the history of tournament golf

1097
00:42:38,966 --> 00:42:42,200
is a very small part of the history of a course

1098
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,500
and it's not something that we consider

1099
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,066
within our rankings um

1100
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:49,966
some other ranking um schemes do and that's fine um

1101
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,666
but we are very much focused on on

1102
00:42:52,666 --> 00:42:56,133
on the architecture sort of without fear or favour

1103
00:42:56,466 --> 00:42:58,566
uh on that you know Queenwood slips

1104
00:42:58,566 --> 00:43:00,366
slips back a little bit uh

1105
00:43:00,366 --> 00:43:02,666
one which is hard for me to discuss

1106
00:43:02,666 --> 00:43:05,233
and I might transfer a little bit of a comment to you

1107
00:43:05,233 --> 00:43:07,900
James cause I know it's something that you've uh

1108
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:10,900
noted is a small fall for um

1109
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:11,600
James Braids

1110
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,900
wonderful king's course at Gleneagles and I

1111
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:19,200
I've got my thoughts as to why that may be um

1112
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:21,200
which I'll I'll follow with but um

1113
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,266
James as leader of the Scotland panel

1114
00:43:23,266 --> 00:43:25,433
I think I'll pass this back to you yeah

1115
00:43:25,433 --> 00:43:26,800
for me the king's is

1116
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,466
arguably one of the most unique golf course is

1117
00:43:30,466 --> 00:43:32,933
in the whole of the UK

1118
00:43:33,266 --> 00:43:36,100
you could take a picture of any golf hole on the Kings

1119
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:38,000
and it looks like a king's golf hole

1120
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,400
but every golf hole's different

1121
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,566
it's so good it's amazing

1122
00:43:41,833 --> 00:43:43,166
but uh it's

1123
00:43:43,166 --> 00:43:45,000
the hotel's under management of a group

1124
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,333
that don't care about the golf

1125
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,166
and it's a shame but it's what it is

1126
00:43:51,166 --> 00:43:56,033
and as soon as you make a forest green

1127
00:43:56,033 --> 00:43:58,033
for photos and pictures

1128
00:43:58,033 --> 00:44:00,833
and for people arriving and wanting to see lush

1129
00:44:00,833 --> 00:44:02,966
green things cause of the Americanization of golf

1130
00:44:02,966 --> 00:44:04,900
thankfully it's changed more recently

1131
00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:07,766
there's a new era that the Masters is leading

1132
00:44:08,433 --> 00:44:10,700
but the soon as you have that

1133
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:12,300
you take away a shot option

1134
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:14,533
which takes away strategic shot options

1135
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,066
and as soon as you do that

1136
00:44:16,066 --> 00:44:17,566
it take that is a

1137
00:44:17,766 --> 00:44:20,766
it's a minus point on our on our schedule

1138
00:44:20,766 --> 00:44:22,333
it's a minus point on our uh

1139
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,400
if we're marking a strategic golf uh

1140
00:44:25,566 --> 00:44:28,833
as our main goal you lose a point like it

1141
00:44:28,833 --> 00:44:31,600
it's just simple and as there's no points but it

1142
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,766
you know that's so important to the game of golf

1143
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:38,166
and I think it's just been over watering

1144
00:44:38,966 --> 00:44:44,066
it's just because it's not run by golf nerds like us

1145
00:44:44,066 --> 00:44:46,666
it's run by a hotel chain that wants it green

1146
00:44:46,666 --> 00:44:47,666
and pretty yes

1147
00:44:47,666 --> 00:44:49,300
and I think the other thing is

1148
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:51,500
is that you know a

1149
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,033
a considering there is a membership there

1150
00:44:53,033 --> 00:44:54,233
which is very active but the

1151
00:44:54,233 --> 00:44:57,466
you know considerable amount of the play is coming in

1152
00:44:57,466 --> 00:45:00,633
going out it's not massive amount of repeat play

1153
00:45:00,633 --> 00:45:02,333
they may play it two or three times

1154
00:45:02,366 --> 00:45:04,500
in their short stay at the resort

1155
00:45:04,633 --> 00:45:05,833
or they may be you know

1156
00:45:05,833 --> 00:45:08,100
going off to other Scottish golf courses and using

1157
00:45:08,266 --> 00:45:09,766
using Gleneagles as a base

1158
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:11,466
and so consequently

1159
00:45:12,066 --> 00:45:15,266
that doesn't get reflected or fed back to the hotel

1160
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,200
and the management enough

1161
00:45:17,633 --> 00:45:18,733
in my view

1162
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:20,233
I yeah

1163
00:45:20,233 --> 00:45:22,266
without doubt and it's a

1164
00:45:22,266 --> 00:45:23,466
it's a gem um

1165
00:45:23,466 --> 00:45:25,800
I've got a map of the courses to the right of me

1166
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,700
and the and the book of the golf at Gleneagles from um

1167
00:45:29,866 --> 00:45:31,600
back in the back in the 20s

1168
00:45:31,833 --> 00:45:33,033
um you know

1169
00:45:33,033 --> 00:45:33,966
it's a great love of mine

1170
00:45:33,966 --> 00:45:34,700
so it you know

1171
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:36,600
I'm saddened to see that and um

1172
00:45:37,033 --> 00:45:37,500
hopefully

1173
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:39,800
they can impress the Scottish panel to get back up

1174
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,166
but that's a personal view

1175
00:45:41,233 --> 00:45:41,800
um ah

1176
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,600
ah

1177
00:45:42,666 --> 00:45:44,100
there um

1178
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:45,833
but I thought it was worth noting

1179
00:45:45,833 --> 00:45:48,166
because although we don't

1180
00:45:49,366 --> 00:45:52,400
include agronomy and course conditioning

1181
00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:54,633
specifically within our guidance

1182
00:45:54,633 --> 00:45:56,500
which is on our website uh

1183
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:58,600
which Jasper very um

1184
00:45:59,066 --> 00:46:01,466
sensibly when he came in decided to open to the public

1185
00:46:01,466 --> 00:46:02,800
because I think that's really important

1186
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,966
that we're open and transparent um

1187
00:46:05,266 --> 00:46:07,033
we don't include that specifically

1188
00:46:07,033 --> 00:46:08,166
so we don't rate you know

1189
00:46:08,166 --> 00:46:11,566
your green speed and all those types of things um

1190
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,766
but we do judge playing characteristics and how

1191
00:46:15,033 --> 00:46:17,833
how consistent they are to the design

1192
00:46:17,833 --> 00:46:19,366
exactly as you said James

1193
00:46:19,566 --> 00:46:21,200
I think that's really important

1194
00:46:21,300 --> 00:46:22,633
um the other thing is

1195
00:46:22,633 --> 00:46:23,366
is that you know

1196
00:46:23,366 --> 00:46:25,233
we've had some comments on some of the socials

1197
00:46:25,233 --> 00:46:27,100
about the England list um

1198
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:28,400
about particular course

1199
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,266
that was struggling with its greens last year um

1200
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:34,966
and speculating that was the reason that it fell um

1201
00:46:35,233 --> 00:46:37,133
that's not the case so

1202
00:46:37,566 --> 00:46:39,966
you know if one of our um

1203
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,866
panelist goes to see a course

1204
00:46:41,866 --> 00:46:43,900
and they have an outbreak of Fusarium

1205
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,066
it's extremely bad for us to penalise them

1206
00:46:47,066 --> 00:46:49,800
on the basis of something that is clearly temporary

1207
00:46:50,166 --> 00:46:53,000
but if you have a significant change in permanent

1208
00:46:53,366 --> 00:46:54,200
conditions

1209
00:46:54,966 --> 00:46:56,400
that does become an issue

1210
00:46:56,666 --> 00:46:58,266
and that can be positive or negative

1211
00:46:58,266 --> 00:46:59,233
so for example

1212
00:46:59,233 --> 00:47:02,200
Wallasey has done really well in a number of lists

1213
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,966
including our own over recent years

1214
00:47:03,966 --> 00:47:06,433
because of unbelievable work that

1215
00:47:06,433 --> 00:47:07,900
that team are doing

1216
00:47:08,433 --> 00:47:12,966
and it's one of the best golf courses in the UK

1217
00:47:13,466 --> 00:47:15,466
without a doubt um

1218
00:47:16,033 --> 00:47:17,266
the benefit of that

1219
00:47:17,266 --> 00:47:19,566
for our list is the playing conditions

1220
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:22,100
not that agronomy um

1221
00:47:22,266 --> 00:47:24,366
that agronomy is the cherry on the cake

1222
00:47:24,366 --> 00:47:26,233
it's the icing on the on the bun

1223
00:47:26,233 --> 00:47:28,200
whatever you wanna call it um

1224
00:47:28,266 --> 00:47:29,400
and it's wonderful and we

1225
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,566
we should say we should celebrate that um

1226
00:47:31,666 --> 00:47:34,500
but within our rankings what drives it is how

1227
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:36,966
that affects how the course plays

1228
00:47:37,433 --> 00:47:39,066
rather than um

1229
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:40,466
you know uh

1230
00:47:40,766 --> 00:47:42,533
that those playing conditions on a

1231
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,666
on a short term basis it's simple things

1232
00:47:45,833 --> 00:47:46,266
there's

1233
00:47:46,266 --> 00:47:49,266
there's just there's simple things like having tight

1234
00:47:49,266 --> 00:47:52,600
firm turf deep away from the green

1235
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,000
so all the way around the green

1236
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,866
so you can have short options

1237
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,966
and the

1238
00:47:57,966 --> 00:48:00,433
every single top golf course in the UK does that

1239
00:48:00,433 --> 00:48:00,766
but then

1240
00:48:00,766 --> 00:48:03,166
there's a load of golf courses that are brilliant

1241
00:48:03,266 --> 00:48:03,866
they just don't

1242
00:48:03,866 --> 00:48:07,100
and they just have rough almost coming or

1243
00:48:07,166 --> 00:48:10,200
or a semi that plays all the way around the green

1244
00:48:10,766 --> 00:48:13,200
it's those are the kind of things that we can judge

1245
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,366
because it's the way you've set up your course

1246
00:48:15,766 --> 00:48:18,000
that is negated strategic golf

1247
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,666
it's not whether your greens running at six or 10

1248
00:48:22,666 --> 00:48:24,100
you know we don't care about those things

1249
00:48:24,100 --> 00:48:25,566
it might be a bit lumpy yeah

1250
00:48:25,566 --> 00:48:27,433
you wouldn't you can't get an iron on it this week

1251
00:48:27,433 --> 00:48:29,466
because it's been wet whatever

1252
00:48:29,466 --> 00:48:30,500
we don't care about those things

1253
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:32,166
I would just have to say to echo that

1254
00:48:32,166 --> 00:48:33,600
it's an interesting one I mean

1255
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,366
and it's not just here um

1256
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:36,033
you know the

1257
00:48:36,033 --> 00:48:38,666
the Fairmont chain of hotels uh

1258
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,466
owns two gems in Canada that

1259
00:48:41,466 --> 00:48:43,366
which are particularly dear to my heart

1260
00:48:43,366 --> 00:48:44,300
because I grew up playing them

1261
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:46,400
Bath Springs and Jasper Park Lodge

1262
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,400
but uh similarly you know

1263
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:52,566
when we spoke to them last year or the year before even

1264
00:48:52,566 --> 00:48:53,600
um the

1265
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:54,700
when you say like do you

1266
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:55,966
do you really realize like

1267
00:48:55,966 --> 00:48:58,100
how great your golf courses are

1268
00:48:58,266 --> 00:49:01,366
and the individual that they might have at the helm

1269
00:49:01,366 --> 00:49:02,600
who's responsible for like

1270
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,266
golf operations of the portfolio is like oh

1271
00:49:05,266 --> 00:49:06,500
do you mean they're they're okay

1272
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:08,266
like they're good golf courses or what

1273
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:09,500
and it's almost like

1274
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:12,900
just another line on a massive portfolios

1275
00:49:13,033 --> 00:49:15,433
you know register at the end of the year

1276
00:49:15,433 --> 00:49:17,233
and as long as that line remains black

1277
00:49:17,233 --> 00:49:19,500
and it doesn't turn red then it's like well

1278
00:49:20,366 --> 00:49:21,866
it doesn't need to be on a risk register

1279
00:49:21,866 --> 00:49:23,466
so look happy days

1280
00:49:23,466 --> 00:49:25,666
it's making money let's just continue on

1281
00:49:25,666 --> 00:49:28,366
and I think when they get approached and they say hey

1282
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,300
like this would be amazing

1283
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:33,500
if you pumped in a few million pounds into it um

1284
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:35,566
or dollars it's kind of like well

1285
00:49:35,566 --> 00:49:37,366
why would we do that from an asset point of view

1286
00:49:37,366 --> 00:49:38,700
like we're we're making money on it

1287
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:39,766
do we really need to do it

1288
00:49:39,766 --> 00:49:41,066
and and I guess that's the

1289
00:49:41,066 --> 00:49:43,000
just the difference between us as

1290
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,333
you know purists fans

1291
00:49:45,666 --> 00:49:46,566
um you know

1292
00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:48,066
you want to see these gems

1293
00:49:48,066 --> 00:49:51,000
which Gleneagles and the other courses I mentioned are

1294
00:49:51,566 --> 00:49:53,100
um yeah

1295
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:53,833
it your

1296
00:49:53,833 --> 00:49:56,966
your heart just kind of x to

1297
00:49:56,966 --> 00:49:59,100
to see them at their their prime again

1298
00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:01,266
I've been doing something really entertaining to me

1299
00:50:01,266 --> 00:50:03,133
and no one else gets it

1300
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:05,266
but I've really enjoyed it recently

1301
00:50:05,633 --> 00:50:07,900
I've been telling people that they're like

1302
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:10,266
if I meet a Canadian and I was

1303
00:50:10,266 --> 00:50:12,433
so I work with the Canadian Jasper

1304
00:50:12,433 --> 00:50:14,166
and they'd be like oh yeah

1305
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,433
blah blah whatever and I'm like

1306
00:50:16,433 --> 00:50:18,400
do you know Jasper's not actually his real name

1307
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,266
his name's Garrett and it's not actually like

1308
00:50:21,266 --> 00:50:23,433
he just uses that because he loves Jasper

1309
00:50:23,433 --> 00:50:25,800
Lodge so much that he changed his name haha

1310
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:28,433
yeah I missed out the

1311
00:50:28,433 --> 00:50:30,400
I missed out the second and third barrel there

1312
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,933
but that might be coming eventually haha

1313
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:35,566
yeah there's a bit more of a story to that

1314
00:50:35,566 --> 00:50:36,833
it's not quite that but yeah

1315
00:50:36,833 --> 00:50:38,166
we can go with that it's fine

1316
00:50:38,833 --> 00:50:39,633
haha

1317
00:50:41,066 --> 00:50:42,900
I think James you might have a similar story though

1318
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:43,900
don't you I think

1319
00:50:44,633 --> 00:50:45,966
it's sad that I don't have a golf course

1320
00:50:45,966 --> 00:50:47,733
that can claim that I'm named after them

1321
00:50:49,633 --> 00:50:52,333
from from my perspective um

1322
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,300
these things are never set in stone

1323
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:58,766
as we said in autumn we will have the global uh

1324
00:50:58,766 --> 00:51:01,466
reranking that will influence this list

1325
00:51:01,466 --> 00:51:04,433
because we like to live update those um

1326
00:51:04,433 --> 00:51:05,766
it will also influence

1327
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:06,800
you know

1328
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,466
below the list and in the country list as well

1329
00:51:09,466 --> 00:51:13,466
because we are pleased to have that global perspective

1330
00:51:13,666 --> 00:51:15,866
um and so um

1331
00:51:15,866 --> 00:51:17,633
some of that feedback um

1332
00:51:17,633 --> 00:51:20,400
can be integrated more on a more

1333
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,966
more more live basis going forward um

1334
00:51:23,266 --> 00:51:26,100
rather than just doing every two years a solid

1335
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:29,200
you know rerank stop and start process

1336
00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,266
and I think that's what Jasper's really detailed here

1337
00:51:33,266 --> 00:51:34,700
which is you know

1338
00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:38,100
this is about curating a list that moves over time

1339
00:51:38,166 --> 00:51:39,466
and rewards

1340
00:51:39,466 --> 00:51:41,900
people for doing the right things over time

1341
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,100
and that compound move um

1342
00:51:44,166 --> 00:51:46,366
obviously helps them um

1343
00:51:46,366 --> 00:51:49,366
and also it's competitive to stay on the list

1344
00:51:49,366 --> 00:51:52,100
you've got to stay doing those good things um

1345
00:51:52,233 --> 00:51:55,266
and be very careful and you know

1346
00:51:55,266 --> 00:51:58,866
I'm obviously quite historical in my output outlook

1347
00:51:59,266 --> 00:52:02,633
and I think restoration globally uh

1348
00:52:02,633 --> 00:52:03,466
as a movement

1349
00:52:03,466 --> 00:52:06,933
is much more advanced than it is over here um

1350
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:09,233
it is better within this top Echelon

1351
00:52:09,233 --> 00:52:12,400
than maybe the proliferation of clubs across the UK

1352
00:52:12,466 --> 00:52:14,666
and GBI um

1353
00:52:15,233 --> 00:52:16,900
but you know

1354
00:52:17,066 --> 00:52:19,800
it's really incumbent on courses to understand

1355
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,266
what's unique and

1356
00:52:21,266 --> 00:52:23,000
and have a high burden of proof

1357
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,466
if there's something architecturally of merit

1358
00:52:25,666 --> 00:52:27,100
whether it's got someone's name on it

1359
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,600
it doesn't matter if there's a piece of terrain

1360
00:52:29,766 --> 00:52:31,600
that has uniqueness and quirk

1361
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,933
and affects the playing experience in a positive way

1362
00:52:35,633 --> 00:52:37,433
and that can be a brutal hazard

1363
00:52:37,433 --> 00:52:39,266
or it can be something really quite subtle

1364
00:52:39,266 --> 00:52:42,200
like a small bump in front of a green

1365
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:44,266
protect it curate it

1366
00:52:44,266 --> 00:52:48,866
look after it and people will reward you with

1367
00:52:48,866 --> 00:52:51,266
you know rankings in the terms of our our

1368
00:52:51,266 --> 00:52:53,633
our respect but your members will be happier

1369
00:52:53,633 --> 00:52:55,300
your visitors will be happier you

1370
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:55,966
you you know

1371
00:52:55,966 --> 00:52:57,966
you're gonna have a much more sustainable business

1372
00:52:57,966 --> 00:52:59,000
model um

1373
00:52:59,033 --> 00:53:00,866
over the long term um

1374
00:53:00,966 --> 00:53:03,466
by looking after the golf architecture

1375
00:53:03,466 --> 00:53:06,933
and playing conditions or playing conditions of your

1376
00:53:06,966 --> 00:53:09,100
of your course and um

1377
00:53:09,100 --> 00:53:10,033
yeah it's a

1378
00:53:10,033 --> 00:53:13,066
it's competitive get on the list as you said James

1379
00:53:13,100 --> 00:53:13,900
the next level

1380
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:16,033
candidates are clear from the country lists

1381
00:53:16,033 --> 00:53:18,000
and people can look at that um

1382
00:53:18,166 --> 00:53:19,900
and people can see where they should be

1383
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:21,033
and where they are

1384
00:53:21,033 --> 00:53:23,766
and maybe see where the opportunities are to

1385
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:24,933
you know uh

1386
00:53:25,033 --> 00:53:27,900
improve and take some inspiration from your neighbours

1387
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:32,566
I think the biggest inspiration on this list um

1388
00:53:32,833 --> 00:53:34,700
certainly in regard to inland golf

1389
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:38,166
both heathland and Parkland is the Addington um

1390
00:53:38,266 --> 00:53:41,266
in terms of what Ryan's been doing there and his team

1391
00:53:41,266 --> 00:53:43,133
and CDP um

1392
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,433
you know it's a

1393
00:53:44,433 --> 00:53:47,000
it's a poster child for what can happen

1394
00:53:47,066 --> 00:53:50,433
to a sleeping giant of a course um

1395
00:53:50,433 --> 00:53:51,400
that um

1396
00:53:51,866 --> 00:53:53,900
has exposed its architecture

1397
00:53:54,033 --> 00:53:57,500
literally exposed its architecture by taking trees away

1398
00:53:57,566 --> 00:54:00,466
um and doing very careful work um

1399
00:54:00,766 --> 00:54:01,733
and um

1400
00:54:01,866 --> 00:54:04,066
there are other Abercrombie courses

1401
00:54:04,066 --> 00:54:06,133
there are other cult courses

1402
00:54:06,366 --> 00:54:07,766
it doesn't matter which which

1403
00:54:07,766 --> 00:54:10,666
which designer or architect is on them

1404
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,600
that can take inspiration from that um

1405
00:54:13,666 --> 00:54:15,000
and see that

1406
00:54:15,066 --> 00:54:17,333
they're doing the right thing for the future

1407
00:54:17,433 --> 00:54:18,900
by looking back at the past

1408
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:19,933
yeah absolutely

1409
00:54:20,033 --> 00:54:21,466
the one thing that um

1410
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:23,233
you do is obvious

1411
00:54:23,233 --> 00:54:25,200
in America's a lot more money in golf of

1412
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,600
everyone knows that but uh

1413
00:54:27,233 --> 00:54:30,966
and a lot of these small town clubs that do have very

1414
00:54:30,966 --> 00:54:34,266
very good golf course architecture that you wouldn't

1415
00:54:34,266 --> 00:54:37,800
maybe you wouldn't see on a top 100 list and

1416
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,866
and you can pay very little to play them

1417
00:54:41,266 --> 00:54:44,766
and don't have the money for gilham's renovation job

1418
00:54:44,766 --> 00:54:47,733
you know don't have the money for the big guys who

1419
00:54:48,233 --> 00:54:50,266
there's not that many doing it brilliantly

1420
00:54:50,266 --> 00:54:51,600
you know yeah

1421
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,033
I was listening I was listening listening

1422
00:54:54,033 --> 00:54:58,400
reading Golf Club Atlas earlier today and um

1423
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:00,333
Tom Doak was writing um

1424
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,600
about the absence of preservation

1425
00:55:03,066 --> 00:55:05,066
and I think that's really important

1426
00:55:05,266 --> 00:55:07,566
and I think he's spot on which is

1427
00:55:07,566 --> 00:55:08,466
you can preserve

1428
00:55:08,466 --> 00:55:10,166
things without spending a lot of money

1429
00:55:10,466 --> 00:55:13,700
you just have to understand what to preserve and how

1430
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:18,166
and a number of the courses on this list are there

1431
00:55:18,166 --> 00:55:20,600
because they have preserved what they have

1432
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,000
not that they've gone in and done some big project

1433
00:55:23,033 --> 00:55:25,466
they've incrementally improved things and preserve

1434
00:55:25,466 --> 00:55:26,266
preserve

1435
00:55:26,666 --> 00:55:30,566
sorry been preservationist in their approach

1436
00:55:31,166 --> 00:55:35,200
that's an awful um so uh yeah

1437
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:36,966
I think yeah it's

1438
00:55:36,966 --> 00:55:39,833
it's very definitely clear

1439
00:55:39,833 --> 00:55:41,700
how you get to be on the list

1440
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:42,866
how you get to stay on the list

1441
00:55:42,866 --> 00:55:44,533
how you get to move up the list

1442
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:46,800
and maybe that is

1443
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,600
maybe that is something just to call out as well

1444
00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:51,200
you know there

1445
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,033
there are some that drop and have dropped in England

1446
00:55:55,033 --> 00:55:59,633
and in GBI particularly and

1447
00:55:59,633 --> 00:56:00,666
you know the commonality

1448
00:56:00,666 --> 00:56:04,200
we spoke about it before we got on here was that

1449
00:56:05,433 --> 00:56:07,833
doing work on your golf course is brilliant

1450
00:56:07,833 --> 00:56:12,600
like you you golf courses are constantly evolving

1451
00:56:12,833 --> 00:56:14,900
and if your course is 100 and twenty

1452
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:17,166
hundred and 30 years old uh

1453
00:56:17,166 --> 00:56:21,200
there's a lot that's changed in 130 years um

1454
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,000
whether that's environmentally

1455
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,133
weather patterns

1456
00:56:24,166 --> 00:56:27,533
you know on and on and on there's there's however

1457
00:56:27,833 --> 00:56:28,066
if

1458
00:56:28,066 --> 00:56:31,966
if you are the custodian of a golden age masterpiece

1459
00:56:31,966 --> 00:56:35,300
that has even a sniff of this list

1460
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:40,966
don't hire a hack and what I mean by that is hire me

1461
00:56:41,766 --> 00:56:45,700
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha James James has open it

1462
00:56:47,366 --> 00:56:48,700
what I mean by that is is

1463
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:51,466
is hire someone who cares enough to understand

1464
00:56:51,466 --> 00:56:53,800
why the golf course is as good as it is

1465
00:56:54,066 --> 00:56:56,833
not just the guy who's you know oh

1466
00:56:56,833 --> 00:56:59,566
he's down the road or he's the cheapest

1467
00:56:59,566 --> 00:57:00,366
or

1468
00:57:00,900 --> 00:57:03,700
find someone who's willing to become an expert at

1469
00:57:03,966 --> 00:57:05,300
your golf course

1470
00:57:05,833 --> 00:57:07,666
that's willing to tear it apart

1471
00:57:07,666 --> 00:57:10,300
look everywhere possible to learn about it

1472
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:12,166
and is willing to put in that time

1473
00:57:12,166 --> 00:57:14,100
to become an expert on your golf course

1474
00:57:14,666 --> 00:57:16,633
uh cause you get a lot of architects that will go in

1475
00:57:16,633 --> 00:57:20,100
and they'll make changes and they wanna do work

1476
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:21,466
and they wanna put in rubber compass

1477
00:57:21,466 --> 00:57:22,433
and course furniture

1478
00:57:22,433 --> 00:57:24,600
and all the things that don't matter

1479
00:57:25,100 --> 00:57:28,533
and they propose changes without actually knowing

1480
00:57:29,966 --> 00:57:31,400
what they're actually changing

1481
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,433
and if you have an original green site

1482
00:57:33,433 --> 00:57:35,133
that's been built by a master

1483
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,466
and you can't be bothered

1484
00:57:38,066 --> 00:57:38,833
to go and figure out

1485
00:57:38,833 --> 00:57:40,666
what you're actually consulting on

1486
00:57:40,666 --> 00:57:41,800
and you go and change it

1487
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,666
you will never get it back and unfortunately

1488
00:57:44,666 --> 00:57:47,366
that happens and happens a lot um

1489
00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:48,600
it's a scourge

1490
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,100
especially with a lot of the work that's being done now

1491
00:57:51,633 --> 00:57:53,266
um and it's a shame

1492
00:57:53,266 --> 00:57:56,066
because I think the real cost

1493
00:57:56,066 --> 00:57:58,300
that a lot of these clubs are gonna have to pay

1494
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,300
is that they've got a poor

1495
00:58:00,700 --> 00:58:04,100
replacement for a stunning original

1496
00:58:04,100 --> 00:58:06,733
a misunderstood original it's like um

1497
00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:10,400
it's like you hear of these stories of people uh

1498
00:58:11,433 --> 00:58:14,900
taking art down from the walls and selling it in a in

1499
00:58:14,900 --> 00:58:16,333
out of their garage you know

1500
00:58:16,466 --> 00:58:18,466
selling it in a flea market

1501
00:58:18,466 --> 00:58:21,166
and then someone picks it up and sells it on

1502
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,100
in an auction site for god knows and a lot of people

1503
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:26,033
a lot of golf courses

1504
00:58:26,033 --> 00:58:28,400
it feels like that's happening right now and

1505
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:29,600
and I think that's the point

1506
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,000
you know sometimes

1507
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,433
you know we always say this

1508
00:58:32,433 --> 00:58:35,266
value is what you get and price is what you pay

1509
00:58:35,266 --> 00:58:39,266
and sometimes you it can be inverse as well

1510
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:39,800
you know you

1511
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,866
you hire these architects to do work um

1512
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,800
and you pay a price but actually

1513
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,566
the damage that they've done to the golf course

1514
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,966
uh in the name of quote unquote progress

1515
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,366
uh history won't smile well on

1516
00:58:54,366 --> 00:58:55,600
on these guys

1517
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,166
and hopefully they're ignorant of that fact

1518
00:58:59,166 --> 00:59:00,400
because if they're not

1519
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,666
then they've got a lot to answer for um

1520
00:59:03,666 --> 00:59:06,333
and I know that's like a harsh thing to say

1521
00:59:06,566 --> 00:59:09,266
but at the same time it's good to have someone

1522
00:59:09,266 --> 00:59:11,433
who's willing to call them out um

1523
00:59:11,433 --> 00:59:14,000
and I think they know who they are

1524
00:59:14,033 --> 00:59:16,800
which is why I'm 100% ha ha ha ha at the minute

1525
00:59:17,266 --> 00:59:18,066
ha ha ha ha

1526
00:59:18,066 --> 00:59:20,033
you just need to look at the work that Donald Steel

1527
00:59:20,033 --> 00:59:23,433
did on the Eden or the work at Rola Verdini did

1528
00:59:23,433 --> 00:59:26,766
it's just an instant for me it

1529
00:59:26,766 --> 00:59:29,500
it you instantly know which parts he's done

1530
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,266
it's very evident

1531
00:59:33,566 --> 00:59:34,100
and and you don't

1532
00:59:34,100 --> 00:59:35,366
you don't have to comment on that

1533
00:59:35,366 --> 00:59:36,166
don't worry

1534
00:59:36,633 --> 00:59:37,433
no no

1535
00:59:37,466 --> 00:59:37,633
no no

1536
00:59:37,633 --> 00:59:38,900
no I I I I

1537
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:39,866
I'm I'm

1538
00:59:39,866 --> 00:59:41,200
in print as saying that the

1539
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,866
Eden is the best 14 hole golf course in Scotland

1540
00:59:44,266 --> 00:59:46,866
that's so good and it's it's

1541
00:59:46,866 --> 00:59:47,666
it's wonderful

1542
00:59:47,666 --> 00:59:51,200
and I think there are moves behind the scenes to

1543
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,800
possibly even

1544
00:59:53,433 --> 00:59:55,233
remodel some of the Strath iron holes

1545
00:59:55,233 --> 00:59:56,433
and bring them into the loop

1546
00:59:56,433 --> 00:59:58,733
and just change a couple of routings

1547
00:59:58,833 --> 01:00:01,466
I actually think that you know they

1548
01:00:01,466 --> 01:00:04,333
they could even play it as 14 um

1549
01:00:04,566 --> 01:00:04,866
you know

1550
01:00:04,866 --> 01:00:06,766
there aren't many 14 courses around and you've got

1551
01:00:06,766 --> 01:00:08,066
you know Balgowie's nine

1552
01:00:08,066 --> 01:00:09,300
you know Strathyrum

1553
01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:09,633
you know

1554
01:00:09,633 --> 01:00:12,600
they just keep growing through the golfing experience

1555
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,500
um but to keep it pure

1556
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:17,400
it's a wonderful golf course

1557
01:00:17,666 --> 01:00:19,466
um is there also

1558
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:20,466
it would be shorter

1559
01:00:20,466 --> 01:00:22,100
in terms of the amount of time it takes

1560
01:00:22,100 --> 01:00:23,866
so you can get two rounds in

1561
01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:26,400
that's what I mean that'd be perfect

1562
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,300
different formats there's no

1563
01:00:28,300 --> 01:00:31,233
no reason to have 18 um the

1564
01:00:31,233 --> 01:00:32,233
the other thing I would

1565
01:00:32,233 --> 01:00:34,366
just following on what Jasper said

1566
01:00:34,833 --> 01:00:36,200
it's not just about the architects

1567
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:37,400
it's also about the clubs

1568
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:38,200
and the clubs

1569
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,166
need to understand that the burden of proof

1570
01:00:41,300 --> 01:00:42,933
of making change

1571
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,866
if they've got something special should be much

1572
01:00:45,866 --> 01:00:49,400
much higher than they currently do

1573
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,066
the good courses get that

1574
01:00:51,066 --> 01:00:53,800
the good courses understand inertia

1575
01:00:54,033 --> 01:00:57,333
and understand that change only needs to be made um

1576
01:00:57,466 --> 01:00:59,466
when there is some significant threat

1577
01:00:59,466 --> 01:01:03,100
whether it be safety whether it be other things um

1578
01:01:03,166 --> 01:01:07,000
a lot of affectation and personal um

1579
01:01:07,100 --> 01:01:10,966
preference is being dressed up as a reason for change

1580
01:01:11,066 --> 01:01:14,800
and inertia is is is is more valuable um

1581
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,300
as I say preservation is way

1582
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:20,500
is an underused word in our industry um

1583
01:01:20,966 --> 01:01:23,166
but there we go um great

1584
01:01:23,166 --> 01:01:24,400
well just to summarize look

1585
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,400
you know again proud to be involved and um

1586
01:01:27,833 --> 01:01:29,366
you know we know we're gonna get comments

1587
01:01:29,366 --> 01:01:31,200
we're happy to get comments um

1588
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:33,933
I'm happy to um uh

1589
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,366
not debate and politely debate things um

1590
01:01:38,366 --> 01:01:40,000
and um you know

1591
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,433
it's a you know

1592
01:01:41,433 --> 01:01:45,366
our role is to highlight what we think is of quality

1593
01:01:45,666 --> 01:01:48,400
and I think this list does that pretty well right okay

1594
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,966
well thank you very much for all your time gentlemen

1595
01:01:50,966 --> 01:01:54,066
I Simon I know both of you are busy men gotta go

1596
01:01:54,066 --> 01:01:54,466
thank you

1597
01:01:54,466 --> 01:01:56,866
and I'm actually going to play with Andy Cocker

1598
01:01:56,866 --> 01:01:59,233
is one of the panelists from Yorkshire

1599
01:01:59,233 --> 01:02:02,266
great this evening so that'll be fun

1600
01:02:02,266 --> 01:02:05,333
and just want to say if anyone

1601
01:02:05,633 --> 01:02:09,666
the DVD will be out by the time this is released

1602
01:02:09,666 --> 01:02:11,600
so please go online to the website

1603
01:02:11,633 --> 01:02:15,600
check it out and if you want to argue with us about why

1604
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,666
something's not in it or something is in it

1605
01:02:17,666 --> 01:02:19,466
and you want to congratulate us

1606
01:02:19,466 --> 01:02:22,200
which normally is the one we prefer

1607
01:02:22,266 --> 01:02:25,166
the the best way to do it is through Instagram

1608
01:02:25,233 --> 01:02:27,366
or on Twitter or uh

1609
01:02:27,366 --> 01:02:29,166
all the social media platforms

1610
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:30,766
and we are very vocal

1611
01:02:30,766 --> 01:02:34,700
I know Jasper loves to have a gin and tonic

1612
01:02:34,700 --> 01:02:37,800
or just a straight gin on ice and uh

1613
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,533
get into the weeds of the comment section

1614
01:02:41,233 --> 01:02:42,633
and I have to admit Jasper

1615
01:02:42,633 --> 01:02:44,866
you're very good at it it's very entertaining to read

1616
01:02:45,266 --> 01:02:46,433
so yeah

1617
01:02:46,433 --> 01:02:47,400
we yeah

1618
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,966
try to provide a little bit of a yeah

1619
01:02:49,966 --> 01:02:51,666
a nudging a wink in places

1620
01:02:53,633 --> 01:02:53,900
hey well

1621
01:02:53,900 --> 01:02:55,566
it's just everything we're saying here right

1622
01:02:55,566 --> 01:02:57,733
we you just back up

1623
01:02:57,866 --> 01:02:59,766
so thanks very much to both of you

1624
01:02:59,766 --> 01:03:01,266
and enjoy the rest of your day

1625
01:03:01,266 --> 01:03:02,866
thanks very much to everyone who's listening

1626
01:03:02,900 --> 01:03:05,933
and I just remember to play Fast Lunch slow

1627
01:03:06,466 --> 01:03:08,433
this episode is brought to you by the Lockhart

1628
01:03:08,433 --> 01:03:11,933
Travel Club we believe golf is more than a game

1629
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,966
it's a journey a journey

1630
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we've made across 34 of the world's top 100 courses

1631
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:20,100
last year and now it's your turn

1632
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we create

1633
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bespoke travel experiences for passionate golfers

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who expect nothing but the best

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membership is limited

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so join us at Locker Travel club.com

1637
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Golf courses.com has set the standard for golfers

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1642
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