Doing Divorce Right By Chief PeaceKeeper™ Scott Levin

Navigating the Terrain of Divorce: A Thoughtful Conversation with Leading Life Coach Lara Brunstrom

• Scott Levin Divorce Mediation Attorney

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Are you ready to navigate the rocky pathway of divorce with grace and efficiency? Join us as we converse with the insightful Lara Brunstrom, a well-respected divorce and life coach. With her guidance, we explore the importance of steering clear from futile arguments, focusing instead on the present and future. We also examine the fascinating concept that we often despise traits in others that we secretly detest in ourselves – a realization that underscores the importance of self-awareness during this emotionally fraught journey. 

We also delve into the realm of divorce negotiations and the role of effective, direct communication. The shift towards email-based negotiations among younger attorneys is discussed, emphasizing how it veers away from the traditional face-to-face interactions. Besides highlighting the significance of self-awareness, we also discuss how understanding can act as a powerful tool in these conversations. Lara and Scott share their experiences and insights, providing valuable advice for individuals finding themselves at crossroads. Listen now to transform your perspective on divorce and discover effective ways of handling emotionally charged messages. As your hosts, we are thrilled to be part of this enlightening conversation, and we hope you find it as valuable as we did.


Thanks for listening and I hope you'll continue to learn more about how you can peacefully divorce.

As a divorce mediation attorney in California, Scott Levin helps couples figure out the settlement terms and draft enforceable settlement agreements so they can divorce fairly without needing to go to court. Obtain closure peacefully through an amicable divorce. process that protects families and kids.

Visit San Diego Divorce Mediation for more information and to learn more about our mission to help divorcing couples make informed decisions and fair agreements through mediation or book a free virtual consultation.

Scott Levin, attorney, mediator, CDFA®
Chief PeaceKeeper
scottlevinmediation@gmail.com
858-255-1321
San Diego Divorce Mediation & Family Law
www.SanDiegoFamilyLawyer.net




Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin, chief Peacekeeper, and I am here with my good friend Laura Brunström. How are you, laura?

Speaker 2:

So good.

Speaker 1:

So good. So Laura is a divorce and life coach. We work together or we work with clients that are going through divorce, sometimes together, sometimes, of course, not and we've recorded a few of these videos in the past to talk about and give advice about issues relating to divorce. And today we thought a really good topic would be effective and ineffective communication between two parties while a divorce is ongoing. So, laura, what are your? When I say communication during divorce, kind of start us off. What are some of your initial thoughts? Do it right?

Speaker 2:

No, yeah, effective and ineffective is a huge just like if we could put it into two categories or two buckets. You know you can take the high road or you can dig in and if, especially if we're sharing a client and mediation is the goal, taking the high road, choosing effective communication is its key, because you really can't be in a room with somebody throwing daggers and buying into the jabs and allowing yourself to reply to any kind of stuff that is thrown your way. That's for sure. I'm going to keep it clean so hard you know there's and I'm going to back us up for a minute because every week tends to bloom some sort of theme that happens throughout the week, at least in my world, and self awareness is kind of my public service announcement for the day, which is my mentor coach said this to me when I started coaching and she said and it was something I learned personally but then also going through coaching certification, which is what bugs me about you is actually about me, and that is a huge light bulb moment for people going through divorce, because a lot of times when you are throwing those daggers and you are being mean intentionally, because I'm pretty sure people know they're doing it it turns out that if you hold that mirror up to yourself, it is likely something that you don't like in yourself, or an insecurity or your need for control.

Speaker 2:

And the best example I can give that doesn't have anything to do with divorce. It was when I was raising my son I would say the absolute, and you have three boys. The absolute worst parenting moments I ever had were when I saw something in him I didn't like about myself, and that's when I was like, oh, I could have handled that way better. And then I realized I was like, oh, that's something I don't, that I do, that I don't know, like I don't want him to have that. So when you translate that into war to divorce, a lot of times that comes hurtful, right, it shows up as pain.

Speaker 2:

And so then, if we transition that back into communication effective and ineffective Somebody sends you I'm sure you were just talking about this before we got online those long text messages that you're like what, what do I even do with that? And so many of my clients are like freaking out because they don't know that it's it's. They're crying or they're pissed or they don't know how to respond. I'm like I'm going to read it because I'm emotionally detached from it. I'm like well, this one line right here is asking about next Friday. If they can pick up two hours early, you're not in loud.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So all of that other stuff doesn't have anything to do with it. So if you can weed through and find the one little line in there and that five screen text message that actually is asking you something and only respond to that, that's where we're falling into effective communication. I would imagine in mediation it's really similar. There's a lot of things said and then there's what the actual point is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean it's interesting when I see I mean those long emails and text threads that go back and forth. When I put on them, I mean they just that's not effective communication about a divorce. A divorce is emotional as it is More of a. You know, the more that you can get down to brass taxes, the more efficient and effective you'll be about. You know what it is that you want your divorce and your post divorce life to look like and feel like and work like.

Speaker 1:

But when I'm am put on those communications, I am ignore I because I'm detached, you know, I'm ignoring all of the stuff that is irrelevant to my role and I'm finding, just like you said, those, those, what are the? What's the actual point of this? If there's no point, most of my, most often my response will be like how does this help us get from where we are to where we want to go? And the less that we're talking although it's relevant to their relationship the less that we're talking about what happened in 2016 and the more we're talking about where we are now and where we want and how we want this to look like in 2025 or 2027 and beyond. You know that's the better solution and that's the better path, and all of those discussions about what you did to me or what, how you didn't do this, and that you know that in written word. The less that that happens, the more effective that that the mediation process can be for two people.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. That's why I love getting ahold of people before they get to you so I they can show up processing 2017. They're already. They're. It's done. It's in a bucket, it's over in the corner. We're leaving it there. So when we show up for mediation, we're done throwing all of that information out because it's not useful. It's certainly not useful and there is a. There's a response. It's called BIF. It's brief, informative, factual, friendly. Yeah, that is it. So you can take a five screen text message and respond with two sentences. You don't have to be mean, you're just very brief, to the point. It's informative. Yes, friday earlier works, factual friendly. I have a, a client right now who's it's a stay at home mom of four kids and a working dad like outside of the home, and one of the things he just sent her recently was because you're unemployed and I'm like you know what we know, that you know working in the house is probably the hardest job.

Speaker 2:

You know, I'm like that. That was super helpful. Thank you for that. Like it's just so. Those that the undercurrent of that doesn't help, Like, like you said, how does this service, how is this making this process any easier?

Speaker 1:

So it's just going to result in an emotional response, because you're exactly exactly. That's not what you're hoping for, then you shouldn't leave with that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think sometimes people really are hoping for the emotional response. They're getting off on the banter or back and forth, and the more you can rise above that and just weed out that one liner and be really informative, factual, friendly, like that's it.

Speaker 1:

Just you sometimes edit. Do you have clients that send you communications before they're sent to their Absolutely, absolutely, like.

Speaker 2:

I write most of it, like I help them and developing that skill over time. Because I'll start and I'll be like okay, let's read, like, let's, let's read it. Okay, here's the one or two lines that matter. Get rid of all the rest. Let's write a two line response and then I'll do it a few times and they'll see how it works and it really shuts down the other side, because if you don't take the bait like there's nothing, there's no banter back and forth, because then you just answered the question.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So then they'll start trying and they'll they'll say, okay, how does this sound, you know? So we'll, we'll practice, like I'll, I'll display it a few times and then they'll start practicing it and Hopefully, by the time they get to mediation they're so practiced and just really just being Non-confrontational, that they can have that conversation. And I've said this, I'm sure we've said it on one of these settings before you don't get to divorce by being a good communicator with your spouse, like there you go.

Speaker 2:

There's something likely broken in the communication system. So, as a coach, that's a huge part of what I work with them on is how okay, this is a new dynamic, this is a new setup. How is it best to start communicating and Staying away from the ineffective? Just to tap on that? I mean, I love staying on the positive side. Sure, I was. I was thinking what are, like, the bullet phrases that people say, especially like in mediation, I had one client who really just wanted to keep saying that they were entitled and I'm like I don't know that I'd go in with that word like that's, that's sense to be a buzzword.

Speaker 1:

What you deserve, right.

Speaker 2:

What I deserve. I'm entitled to this. The other one is you never, are you always Things to avoid, right like cuz, cuz, nobody always does.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you're right, those are you. Those are hurtful ways of framing things.

Speaker 2:

Even one of my one of my personal favorites that I was affected by was I know you don't care about this, but but yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'm like Do I not care about that? So? Or Using past push buttons, like in that you know. You know it pushes their buttons, you know it's gonna get them riled up. Those bullet phrases. I Work really hard on just making those evaporate before they come to you, so they are trained in what's. What's the point? What are we trying to get to? If we're talking about this, we don't need to go back to 2017. We need to stay right here in the present moment, now forward. How are we gonna get this?

Speaker 1:

And it doesn't mean that you can't follow up with what's after the but, because that's what you're really communicating about, but you're getting rid of the first part, which puts the person on the defensive, which makes them Not want to be open to whatever it is comes next.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

You know, when you're in business, a lot of times when you get a mean message or someone's upset and you they often say, like you know, wait a second.

Speaker 1:

You can write out the whole email every, get it out what you want to say and then just click delete Right, so you get it out of your system and then you can respond more. You know less emotionally that'll divorce. You know there's no greater emotionally you know hot kind of situation that you find yourself in in your life. But that doesn't mean that you can't put these tools into practice that that Laura is suggesting and helps her clients with, in order to make the most effective result for your, in your best interest. That's what this is all about Framing your communication in a way that helps you achieve what you want, and putting the person on the defensive and getting them their blood to boil and accusing them of always. You know, I know that you didn't. You know you never cared about your kids, but you know how does that help us in any way? So effective communication.

Speaker 1:

And then the big takeaway from my, from my perspective, is your divorce isn't settled by by email, Unfortunately. I actually think that's the big, the biggest issue in the divorce world is that younger attorneys, they don't know how to negotiate directly with human beings. They've lost that skill. It's all about email and they'll sit there pounding away on their keyboard and they can say whatever they want. And they're emotional, they're tired up for their clients and they're pissing the other off, attorneys off, and they're getting them fired up. But how is that solving this? These things need to be hashed out with direct communication, at least if mediations an option.

Speaker 1:

When my clients start firing off emails back and forth. It doesn't help us move forward. We need to get into a meeting or a zoom or a phone call and talk about what really is the issue and get over it, so that we can then get back on track.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely and I would. I would expand that. I would like, if you're going divorce, I would expand that to everything. I mean I have a 23 year old son. If anything ever gets hot and he's texting, I'm like pick up the phone, make a phone call, have a conversation, because you can read so much tone and I mean all the voices that we have in our head all the time and then you add some written words and then you add in inflection in places that maybe it was or wasn't intended. I 100% agree. I would say that's global and especially in mediation and divorce is you have to have the conversation and the more grounded you are and the more self aware you are and the more practiced you are at effective communication without damage, without the intent of causing damage, the better. Like, if I can deliver clients to you with that skill set, somewhat practiced, I mean you're already really good, but that just boosts up the scenario even better.

Speaker 1:

I agree. So I'm going to write in how you in the comments here, how you could get a hold of Lara. But, laura, do you want to talk a little bit about how people can reach you real quick?

Speaker 2:

I put it in the notes. I mean, I'm online at sterlingfirecoachingcom.

Speaker 1:

Work all over the country Work all over, which is a blast.

Speaker 2:

I love working in different parts of the country.

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