A Million Cookie Boxes Annually: Lessons Business Owners Can Learn from Non-Profits with Girl Scouts of Suffolk County CEO Tammy Severino

In this episode of Helping You Soar: A (Sort of) Legal Podcast, host Jeff Berkman delves into the world of nonprofit success and the inspirational story of Tammy Severino, President & CEO of the Girl Scouts of Suffolk County (GSSC), as she shares her journey and insights into leading one of the largest Girl Scout councils in the nation with over 12,000 girls, With her extensive experience and a visionary approach, Tammy discusses how Girl Scouts focuses on fostering courage, confidence, and character through community service, and she shares the similarities and unique challenges generally faced by non-profits.

This episode is not just for women and non-profits as it highlights the importance of empowerment in shaping the leaders of tomorrow, teaching entrepreneurship, and the immeasurable benefits, from both a personal and business perspective, derived from life-long relationships. It's a conversation filled with insights for non-profit and for-profit organizations alike on building a successful infrastructure and embracing community involvement. 

Tune in to learn about Tammy Severino's leadership ethos and the Girl Scouts' mission as we discuss strategies for growth, leadership, and the impact of non-profits.

Falcon Rappaport & Berkman LLP (FRB) believes great results begin with great relationships. Helping You Soar, hosted by FRB Partner Jeffrey W. Berkman, Esq., LL.M., gives listeners insight into the minds of the myriad of successful businesspeople that FRB has been privileged to represent.

This podcast may be considered attorney advertising. This podcast is not presented for purposes of legal advice or for providing a legal opinion. Before any of the presenting attorneys can provide legal advice to any person or entity, and before an attorney-client relationship is formed, that attorney must have a signed fee agreement with a client setting forth the firm’s scope of representation and the fees that will be charged.

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Transcript

Jeff Berkman [00:00:10]:
Hello, my name is Jeff Berkman, and welcome to helping you soar, a sort of legal podcast. Let me start with a story. Nearly two decades ago, a shy little elementary school girl was sitting at Disney World waiting for the Little Mermaid show to start. She had a perfect view of the stage and was very excited. As luck would have it, a few minutes before the show started, a tall man sat down right in front of her and blocked her view completely. The little girl was obviously very upset because she could no longer see the stage. Just as her parents were about to ask the man to move, the little girl poked the man on the back and said, excuse me sir, could you move so I can see the show? I love Ariel. The girl's parents were shocked because the little girl was very, very shy.

Jeff Berkman [00:00:55]:
When the parents asked the little girl what prompted her to ask the man to move, she said, I learned in daisies that if you are polite but a confident person, people will usually be willing to listen to you. While the girl was right, the man moved and she had a wonderful view of the show the entire time. Why'd I tell this story? Because it relates directly to today's guest, whom I'll introduce in a bit. Again, my name is Jeff Berkman, and welcome to another episode of helping you soar, a sort of legal podcast. The podcast is styled as a series of interviews focusing on successful people, companies, and organizations our firm has had the privilege to represent or collaborate with. The podcast is intended for entrepreneurs, companies, and nonprofit organizations. The focus of the podcast is on people who are making a difference by launching innovative products and services companies in a wide variety of industries and organizations that are meaningfully impacting their communities. We want our listeners to gain valuable insights and practical advice from these experts.

Jeff Berkman [00:01:58]:
Please note, the podcast is meant for informational and entertainment purposes only. This is not legal advice. If you need assistance with any legal matter, I strongly urge you to hire an attorney. Before I introduce my amazing guests, a bit about me I'm one of the founding partners and chair of the corporate and securities Practice Group at Falcon, Rapaport and Berkman. Despite having practiced for over 30 years, I continue to be impressed by the entrepreneurs and other successful people I've met in connection with the m and a transactions and succession planning we've handled and our role as outside general counsel to many businesses and as counsel to a variety of nonprofit organizations. In working with these successful owners and leaders, it dawned on me that it was worthwhile to interview successful people to see if there were commonalities as well as unique qualities that have been instrumental to why they were so successful and thus the genesis of the podcast. However, I didn't want to focus on legal issues, but rather on business owners, early stage founders, entrepreneurs, community based organizations, thought leaders, and their advisors. Thus why I call this sort of a legal podcast.

Jeff Berkman [00:03:03]:
So, thinking about today's episode, we should all recognize that success can take many forms. While one obvious form is wealth creation, another form is the incredible impact that a nonprofit organization can have on the communities they serve. Our firm consistently supports these nonprofits because of the critical role they play in their communities. So now recall the story of the little girl at Disney and her insightful comments to her parents about being confident and kind. We all know the saying, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The one shy little girl felt confident to politely ask the man to move because of what she learned in Girl Scouts about being a confident girl, but also about being reasonable and polite. This leads directly to today's guest, so I'm very humbled to be able to introduce today's guest, Tammy Severino. She is the president and CEO of Girl Scouts of Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

Jeff Berkman [00:03:55]:
Suffolk County, Long Island, New York. The Girl Scouts covers some 1200 Daisy, Brownie and Girl Scout troops. That equates to something like twelve to 15,000 girls across 65 school districts. It has a staff of over 50 people, plus about 3000 adult volunteers who serve as troop leaders and provide other support to the organization. The annual budget approaches $5 million yearly. Most importantly, it serves the community in so many incredible ways. Just as a small example, it's provided over 2000 scholarship awards and grants to girls in community programs. It's made it possible for over 50 girls to attend summer camps and provide substantial support to girls and troops who need assistance.

Jeff Berkman [00:04:36]:
And of course, as we all know, Girl Scouts cookies, right? Girl Scouts of Suffolk county is expecting to sell over a million boxes this year, and I assure you our firm will be receiving a delivery of many of those boxes. So, obviously, Tammy, as CEO and president, has a lot resting on her shoulders, and I'm so pleased she's willing to take the time to discuss all that she's accomplished with us today. So, Tammy, as I always warn my guests, I know where I want to start with my first question. I don't know where this is going to lead, but I'm really excited to have you on board. So, Tammy, thanks for coming and being willing to participate in the podcast today. Let's just start with some background questions. When did you become CEO and president of Girl Scouts of Suffolk county.

Tammy Severino [00:05:21]:
Well, Girl Scouts had a longtime CEO who retired, and the person who replaced her didn't fit with the green of Girl Scouts. And so I was a board member, and I was asked if I could step in as the interim CEO, which I did in December of 20. And about three months later, I was asked if I would consider staying on as the CEO. Things were going really well, and so January 1 of 22, I officially became president and CEO. So I just had my second anniversary last month.

Jeff Berkman [00:05:52]:
Wow. Congratulations. So where were you before you said you were on the board, but were you in any for profit organizations?

Tammy Severino [00:05:59]:
I actually had my own boutique consultancy that started after a lot of years of working in fundraising and development and corporate growth, or nonprofits. And that way I was able to serve small and medium sized nonprofits, which was the size that I really enjoyed in helping them with their strategy and their board development and increasing their revenue so that they could do more of the thing that they're so good at. And then the business grew to also incorporate small businesses, which there's a parallel between the way small nonprofits and small businesses operate. So I was doing similar work for them on developing strategy for growth.

Jeff Berkman [00:06:41]:
Okay, that's great, because this is the kind of things that people want to hear about, and I want to talk about a little bit today, but did I miss anything, particularly when I mentioned Girl Scouts of Suffolk county and all you've done and accomplished and where you're headed right now?

Tammy Severino [00:06:52]:
Well, Girl Scouts really has. We have four pillars, so we focus in teaching our girls about the outdoors. That's our camping and hiking and trails and all that kind of outdoor connection, which is for our kids who are so attached to their devices, it's good for them to be outside and being and experiencing instead of tapping away with their thumbs. We focus on entrepreneurialism so that when someone says to me, oh, Girl Scouts, you do more than cookies. They don't just sell cookies. They are learning all of the core skills that entrepreneurs need to be able to succeed. And cookies is the world's largest girl led entrepreneurial program. So it's a tremendous product program that they are participating in.

Tammy Severino [00:07:39]:
They're learning life skills. And there's been a big focus throughout the country with Girl Scouts on focusing on their physical and mental well being, particularly post pandemic. And then, of course, STEM education. And it's stem and steam, because we know that STEM is critical, but that for some girls, the arts is more of where their heart and their skill and their interest lies. So we have that focus as well. So that's our four corners that we work on with our girls.

Jeff Berkman [00:08:08]:
Incredible, particularly. I mean, the four pillars are really interesting, but the entrepreneurship is just so important because obviously a lot of what we do at the firm is we work with entrepreneurs. But entrepreneurship is not something that everybody has innate quality. It's something that some people need to learn that or what that involves. And starting at such a young age, it's an amazing task Girl Scouts is undertaking. So I caught at the beginning that you said the green of the Girl Scouts. So what do you mean by that?

Tammy Severino [00:08:37]:
We consider Girl Scouts as a sisterhood. You can meet someone. I met someone recently, and I realized how frequently when I meet with a woman and she'll tell me, I was a Girl scout, it changed my life. I was a Girl scout, my mom was my leader, or I was a Girl scout, and I got to see and do and experience great things. I myself was a Girl scout. So my Girl Scout journey started when I was six in Brooklyn, where I started my adventures. And it's been a part of my life pretty much my whole life. There is a part of the organization that it's not just an organization, it is a sisterhood.

Tammy Severino [00:09:15]:
So it's understanding that thread that runs through from Girl Scout to Girl Scout. Whether she's a Girl scout in Texas or in New York or in England or in Asia, she is a Girl scout or a Girl Guide when it's outside of the states, and there is a true understanding of what that bond looks like. That's the green.

Jeff Berkman [00:09:37]:
No, that's interesting. So, one thing I didn't mention in the story that I talked about a few minutes ago was that little girl was actually my daughter. And my wife was a daisy leader and then a Girl scout troop leader, and very involved in the organization. And my daughter, if you see her today, is anything but a shy person. But when she was very little, that was her personality, and we were just completely shocked. So I didn't make up that story. I mean, that is an actual evidence of something I saw in her development as a Girl scout. I just wanted to add that so everybody understood who that person I was referring to.

Jeff Berkman [00:10:11]:
And it wasn't you, Tammy, but it was my daughter. So I was thinking about Girl Scouts a little bit, too, in terms of what your constituency is, right? So you have the girls, obviously, you have the parents and the guardians of them. You have your staff, you have your volunteers. Did I miss anybody?

Tammy Severino [00:10:31]:
The community, our mission is to develop girls of courage, confidence, and character. But there's a second half of the sentence. It's who make the world a better place. So, community service is so ingrained in the program that our girls learn to take care of themselves, to take care of their families, and then to take care of the greater community. So girls who go on to the highest awards are the bronze, silver, and gold awards, are developing projects. But even as daisies, as five and six year olds, they are learning to do programs that benefit someone else. It might be a food drive. It might be.

Tammy Severino [00:11:15]:
We see a lot of drives to provide product that's very needed to animal shelters, to shelters that are taking care of families that are just in crisis right now. So whatever the girls, because it is girl driven, the girls will decide, this is the cause area we want to do something special for. And they take on a community service project that meaningfully impacts someone's life. When I think of all the different constituencies, I do think of our Suffolk community, because our girls are doing so much in Suffolk, but actually in the larger community, too.

Jeff Berkman [00:11:54]:
And you could talk a little bit about the various awards. I mean, when the girls go to that extreme level of lasting through the bronze, silver, and gold, some of the stories or some of the achievements you've seen along the years must be incredible.

Tammy Severino [00:12:08]:
It truly is. They are learning to critically think, to solve problems, to develop projects that are sustainable so that it's not something that's just a one and done. They are projects that will last long after the girls are done with the project at that nonprofit that they've chosen to benefit. That project lives on for years and years to help benefit future constituents of that nonprofit. So they are really learning to become leaders through that process, that critical thinking, that sustainability, using their resources wisely, bringing others in for advice and counsel, and making decisions that will benefit their project and thereby the community.

Jeff Berkman [00:12:58]:
So, yeah, what's interesting about that is obviously, like I said, with a lot of what we're talking about today, or generally with the podcast about entrepreneurship and just development and leadership, but these things you're talking about, critical thinking, solving problems, developing sustainable solutions and resolution of issues, starting at a very young age for anybody, is incredible. I'm sure that's no surprise that women in general, young girls, will often find this more difficult because of the way the world is. Society, because of their confidence, may not be as easy because it's a man's world in a lot of ways as it originally was many years ago. And so what you're teaching them in Girl Scouts, obviously, is so important in developing that skill set that you really need to run a business, ultimately, absolutely.

Tammy Severino [00:13:45]:
I'm a writer by trade, and so for me, words are really important. And each year, I have a word that kind of pushes me forward, and my word this year is possibilities. And it's interesting because I think my word represents what I'm looking for for me. But it has also kind of transcended to becoming the word that we use to help lift the girls. So when I think of possibilities, I want every girl to know that she doesn't just have to knock. She can push open a door and see what's behind it, and that's a possibility for her and that she doesn't have to be put into any kind of box that there may be, you know, that phrase, you don't know what you don't know. There are careers and possibilities out there for her that she doesn't even know to consider. So for us, we want to show the girls all kinds of options that may be there for her post high school.

Tammy Severino [00:14:42]:
So whether she goes to trade school or college, internships, all the things that are out there that can lead her to having the best life possible as an adult, and that we hope that she will maintain that mindset of taking care of her community, taking care of herself and her family, but being everything that she can be, because our girls do make the world a better place. And so if they know that all of that is out there for them, they're going to have a great life for themselves, but they're going to push that further and make the world a better place.

Jeff Berkman [00:15:15]:
So having been sort of in the world of a nonprofit, in the world of the for profit or consulting, both types, what are some of the challenges that you think are similar? What are some that are different? Maybe they're all similar, but obviously, with a nonprofit or a community based organization, there's lots of other challenges that some of them, I'm sure, were obvious, like financial support and et cetera. But what are some of the ones that we don't think about?

Tammy Severino [00:15:41]:
Well, I think within the nonprofit space, at least for me, I have always tried to be very attuned to the team. I think if you are elevating your people, your human capital, and helping them to thrive, then your organization is going to naturally thrive because they're going to reach their best heights, and that effort is going to be executed towards your organization that helps the organization reach its goals and do so with really positive morale. And so then I think that the dollars end up taking care of themselves. If that is the case. So for me, ensuring that our team has the training resources and the support resources that they need through the council is critically important, because one of our two key ways of ensuring our mission thrives, that's one. And our volunteer corps, Girl Scouts, has, and I think always will be, based in our volunteer model. We have remarkable volunteers, from the troop leaders to our service unit coordinators. Our service units are pretty much a school district, so they're coordinating all the volunteers on that level and then all the way up to our board, which is a remarkable group of people, and they're all giving of their precious time and talent.

Tammy Severino [00:17:02]:
So ensuring that both bodies have what they need, our staff and our volunteers, to be able to push the mission forward, that's a key thing for us. I think on the for profit side, you have your team, you don't have that volunteer base. So that's a bit of a difference. You have two distinct bodies working for you when you are with a nonprofit.

Jeff Berkman [00:17:21]:
Right. So in some ways, the motivation comes from a different place. I mean, certainly someone's coming in, they're doing their jobs. They're getting paid to do it. It's part of their responsibility. Someone's coming in and volunteer, it's not their job. They're volunteering their time, and they have some other job. And so getting that commitment and adding that to the organization from an outsider looked in makes it a unique aspect, running any kind of nonprofit.

Tammy Severino [00:17:43]:
And I think for nonprofits, one of the other things that you'll see is, yes, you do have paid staff and they're doing a certain job. The level of passion in our team is just remarkable. Many of them are also volunteers. They may be managing a troop. They may be providing programs in a specific skill area to a troop or to a service unit. So they're involved multilevel, so that, yes, they're getting a paycheck, but absolutely, they are doing their jobs with a level of passion that is exceptional.

Jeff Berkman [00:18:18]:
A crisis management must just be huge. It is in any organization, right? I mean, you could think about running organization, things that come up, your email gets hacked, whatever that means. But in particular, some of the crises you must face, some you could probably foresee are coming down the road just sort of what's going on in society or whatever. But I'm sure, like every organization, the pandemic must have just thrown you for a loop and how you now have these schools closed. How did you function during that time? How did you change gears to be able to react and deal with something that nobody knew how to react and deal with.

Tammy Severino [00:18:51]:
It was a bear. I have to tell you, it was not easy, particularly because as the pandemic went on, we knew the effect it was having on our children. So wanting to lift them up as much as possible so that they did not experience more negative effects than they needed to was really important for us. So our troops met virtually during nice weather. Our troops could meet outdoors with a lot of space between the girls, but at least they could see their friends, even if they were keeping significant distance. But one of the things that we did that was so critical was we shifted gears and started providing programs on Zoom. So we provided, over the course of a year and change hundreds upon hundreds of programs. We did series, baking series, and STEM series.

Tammy Severino [00:19:43]:
Things related to how to sell your cookies online, things about how to take care of yourself. For the little ones we did in the STEM space, they were learning how to make slime. Sorry, moms, but anything that would keep them engaged, seeing other kids online, doing activities. And what we would do is girls would register in advance of the programs and a kit would get delivered to them so that they could have all the resources that they needed to do the project that was being done on screen. And they felt connected. We had, at one point, we were doing a series of programs where we opened it up that Girl scouts all over the country could actually register. We had girls signing on from all the time zones across the country, and because we really wanted to keep them engaged and busy. And that allowed us, when the doors started to reopen, to have those girls come back as in person Girl Scouts.

Tammy Severino [00:20:43]:
As schools reopened their doors to us, we started to bring programming back into the schools. We do that primarily in some of our most economically hard hit communities where parents don't have necessarily the bandwidth to also be a troop leader. So we bring Girl scouts in the school to them. They're getting it either during lunch or recess for the elementary school kids. And once they get up to middle school, it becomes an after school program. And when we didn't have access to the schools, that number plunged as the schools reopened. This year, we are now in more schools than ever before, even before the pandemic. So we're really serving a lot of girls and giving them the opportunity to find their inner strength, to find their leadership talents, to find what their talents are, so that they can be their best through girl scouting, and to really have that sense of sisterhood that girls get within the troop setting.

Jeff Berkman [00:21:40]:
So you've been able to, or have you been able to take what you've had to adjust to as a result of the pandemic and carry that over into where we are today, where we're pretty much functioning back on some level.

Tammy Severino [00:21:52]:
Still do certain things. Some of the meetings for the adults that are information sessions, we'll do them via Zoom so that they don't have to go running out to make it more convenient for the family. We do some programs on screen, not things like archery, because no one should hold a bow and arrow in the dining room. We're not going to make friends with any parents doing that. So we have a lot of things back at our camp, back at our offices where we normally do programs, but we have utilized what we benefited from on screen and kept as much of that as we can to have that hybrid formula. We also have some of our team able to work hybrid so that it allows them to have the work life balance that they need and to ensure that we're getting the type of productivity that allows the council to keep growing.

Jeff Berkman [00:22:42]:
Yeah, sure. I mean, all organizations doesn't matter if they're for profit, non for profit. Everybody has had to figure out how to get that hybrid work from home. Partial in office, not in the office. How do you motivate people? And I assume sort of to a certain degree, obviously, you said that's the same. But even with the kids, the girls and the troops and et cetera, they've got a whole different world of way of thinking about things, too, and so kind of motivating them. Not everything is on Zoom anymore. And participating in person, in things and being back in a community where they were separated, especially for a lot of the young girls, I'm sure.

Tammy Severino [00:23:19]:
Yes. And for our. They. They look forward to getting together. They develop friendships and relationships that can last a lifetime. Someone I hadn't spoken to in years and years reached out. She got me, of course, through Facebook. And her parents, unfortunately passed during COVID And they were going through mom and dad's things and she found her mother maintained a box and she took pictures of it and sent them to me.

Tammy Severino [00:23:45]:
And there was me with my maiden name and my address where I grew up and my phone number. It was the roster of all the girls and all the parents from my troop. When I was a little girl, her mother was my troop leader and our whole troop is still in touch, and that's sisterhood. That's maintaining lifelong friendships. A colleague of mine told me that when her daughter got married, I think it was two years ago, all of her bridesmaids were the girls in her troop. They are her best friends to this day. They met in kindergarten as daisies.

Jeff Berkman [00:24:23]:
So what's interesting about that is I was literally having a conversation this week with somebody I know, I've known since college and called me up for some advice and probably wants to retain the firm on some matters. And he was telling some potential, he interviews for the college I went to, and he was telling some of his potential students that these are the lifelong relationships that you make. Friends that I had, I met on the first day of freshman year in college, still communicating with good friends, with playing golf or whatever it is, and doing business together. So an organization like girl scouts, obviously you meet somebody when you're kindergarten or very young and you have that life experience with them through the rest of your, you know, your friends or whatever. But also, we're business people, right? This is how you build a business. This is how you communicate with people. This is how you reach out to the resources. So I think that's also sort of like, inherent in a lot of what you're doing, is that these girls are now creating these relationships that hopefully they last a lifetime.

Tammy Severino [00:25:20]:
That's the beginning of building your network.

Jeff Berkman [00:25:21]:
Exactly.

Tammy Severino [00:25:22]:
That's the very seed of building your network, is the girls that you spend in that childhood moment. And boys have it as well, if they're doing scouting or some other activity. But with Girl scouts, there is such a sisterhood that develops. One of my colleagues makes it a point. She's a big traveler, and she makes a point of stopping in at the council office, wherever she visits in the world. And that, to me, is fantastic. And there's always a warm welcome because it's as though you know the person, because you know the core of the person. But the people who you actually spend time with in that troupe and get to know and grow up with, they're your bonds, the tight bonds that you have.

Tammy Severino [00:26:09]:
They'll be the people who are in your wedding party, as I mentioned. They'll be the people who you reach out to, to do business with. That's a lifelong thing.

Jeff Berkman [00:26:17]:
Yeah. So that's a lesson. Like I said, the point of the podcast is to have people understand how it is that businesses operate, how they grow, what leaders do, what thought leaders do. You don't have to be in a nonprofit. You don't have to be for profit business, whatever it is. These are the relationships that are going to make a difference in your life as things go on and you try to build your business or develop your community based organization. I always said I wish when I was in college or even in high school, I thought a little more about this because so much of that, of what I do today and what we do as business owners is the relationships that we've had over the years that can create, ultimately, the business growth that we're looking to do here. So, Mitchell, I want to change gears a little bit.

Jeff Berkman [00:26:58]:
There's all these conventional ways of thinking about how to develop a business, how to develop an organization. I mean, people go to get mbas or whatever it is, or they take courses or they read books. I'm interested to hear what you think is sort of where maybe the quote unquote experts get it wrong in any of this thinking. Like, what is it that you figured out that says, people always say, do it this way, but really, this is the better way to do it? Or how I need to think outside of what the quote unquote experts say in running an organization like yours?

Tammy Severino [00:27:25]:
Well, I think that part of building something from the ground up is who do you want to reach? Who do you want to talk to? Who is going to best receive your message? And starting with that as a circle, I think of it in circles that grow out. And you can't be everything to everyone all the time. So you have to be the best thing that you're going to be in, the thing that you specialize in. You're part of a law firm. If you were trying to offer coffee service to people, it's not your sweet spot. It might be, but it's not your sweet spot. So you have to be the best that you can be in the thing that you do. And anything that grows out of that primary should have a real natural link from a to b.

Tammy Severino [00:28:15]:
So we know where our talents are for Girl scouts, and we look to expand our programs. Always looking, does this benefit the girl? And that's always like every decision that we make is, is this going to benefit the girl? If the answer is a hard and fast yes, then it's a good choice for us. If it's I'm not sure, then we really have to give it some thought. And if it's I don't think so. Well, there's your answer. It becomes a no, and it's a clean no because it's not benefiting the mission. I think nonprofits have it right in being mission centric, because then it's not always about the dollar. It's about the service that's being provided.

Tammy Severino [00:28:56]:
The dollar will follow along.

Jeff Berkman [00:28:57]:
So what you said, though, is it's not just about nonprofits right. So I had a previous guest I was talking about who was very, very successful. I was just general counsel for about ten years in an earlier part of my career. But one thing he said during the podcast that just resonated with me, even having worked for them, was that it's about execution, right? So you have to know what your goal is, and you have to execute. And getting distracted with too many things leaves you off course. There's so many great ideas out there, but it's the actual execution and understanding in a different way what your mission is. Right. So if you have a company or a business that's going in multiple directions and isn't focused, right.

Jeff Berkman [00:29:40]:
You want to help everybody, you can. You want to help every parent you can. You want to help every girl, you can. You want to address every societal issue that they may face or whatever. But if you can't focus that mission, right, whether it's in your organization or in a business that's selling widgets, you're going to be lost. You're going to end up too many different places not accomplishing and executing on what that ultimate goal is.

Tammy Severino [00:30:04]:
Agreed. The other night, Super bowl was on, and it's the one night I actually look forward to the commercials, and some of the commercials, you'll see that they have a new thing coming out. And I go, well, that makes sense for them because it's a natural offshoot of what they already do. So, well, sometimes you have the reverse reaction, are you going, really? You're getting into that? Because it doesn't align with where their sweet spot is. And so I think that is absolutely a critical way of looking at things, both for nonprofit and for profit.

Jeff Berkman [00:30:38]:
Yeah. Because leaders of organizations and founders, people have lots of ideas. Right. And this is why they're doing this. They want to be entrepreneurs. They want to be successful. They also just want to execute on their goals, but they also have these products and services that can be disruptive and innovative. It's hard.

Jeff Berkman [00:30:57]:
It's a hard thing to do in a well established organization. It's hard to do in a fledgling organization. A place like Girl Scouts or any organization has to be flexible. Right? Like in the pandemic, you had to figure out how to deal with that, crisis. But the world is generally changing. I think one thing that you and I had talked about previously was the whole world of social media, AI, the Internet. Obviously, the Internet's been around for a long time, but just the way it's sort of enveloped people's lives, and particularly young children and any age adults, you see it, they can't walk around down the street without bumping into somebody because they're looking at their phone. How are you thinking about that in terms of directing the troops and the leaders and the girls to be able to say, okay, this is an important part, but here's some things you need to think about as part of your development.

Tammy Severino [00:31:49]:
Well, for programmatically, we try to both offer programs on smart uses of social media so that girls can make wise decisions. It's foolish to think they're not going to touch it. It's better to teach them how to safely do so. So that's one piece of it. The outdoor component of what we do is also a piece of that. It's showing them the counterbalance that life is about balance. Being on the phone all day, every day is not a healthy way to live, and I'm guilty of it myself sometimes. So it's important to step outside and step away and be in the outdoors.

Tammy Severino [00:32:29]:
Our summer camps, our camping weekends that our girls do at our properties, those help them to disconnect and just really be where they are with who they're with, and appreciate all that is in a beautiful, natural setting. Towards the end of COVID one of our program specialists did, in the middle of a snowstorm, we had the girls come onto our property, our camp property, and they did a hike, a nature hike, identifying all the winter birds. The feedback on it, it sounded like a nice program. The feedback was ridiculously positive. The parents were so thrilled at how much their girls were talking about it. They were so effusive about the afternoon that they spent walking through a trail in the trees, identifying birds, laughing with other girls, and getting to experience being outside. That's part of the counterbalance, is showing them you have this, and this is not negative. Social media doesn't have to always be negative, but being outside is counterweight to it, and that's part of what we're doing.

Tammy Severino [00:33:36]:
As far as AI, we are starting to put our foot in the water about having a better understanding. Our board is talking about it. We're trying to learn more about it in terms of ways that we can use it to best serve the girls, but also what we need to teach them so that they can make smart choices with it.

Jeff Berkman [00:33:53]:
Yeah, and I mean, all organizations are dealing with this. How do you, again, function in a world with social media? We can see the mistakes that people make on social media that have caused companies huge issues. You could see how you need to get your organization focused on again, like coming to the office, camaraderie, being in a community. Right. And social media can be a distraction in a lot of ways. For us. For example, we developed a system where we have these meetings, even during the pandemic, where we were actually through teams and et cetera, were getting together every day to make sure we were touching base with each other. And I think probably we still continue that has carried on even till today.

Jeff Berkman [00:34:34]:
So that if you're not in the office, if it's a snow day like was yesterday, you're going to be able to still stay in touch with the people you're working with and address these issues as they come up. So, obviously, the developments, the technology, have created an ease of use that we didn't have before. But again, I'm sure the challenges with the population of the age, of the children and the young adults you're dealing with, it brings in a whole nother element of it that I'm sure that you have to deal with, as you expressed. So kind of the question you hear a lot, but I want to throw it out there. Where did you confront an issue where you think, okay, I kind of made a mistake. I didn't approach it the way I wanted, but I learned about how to deal with that, or just in the future, how to deal with other issues as manager, as a particular crisis, as any level, something you can think about.

Tammy Severino [00:35:27]:
Good question. I'm trying to think. I like to believe in transparency in terms of how our organization does what it does. And I think you need to be flexible with your staff and all good things to elevate people. But I think there is a point of flexibility that you need to temper against what the organization needs. So I probably, when I came in at a certain point, not initially, but maybe within the first year, where I had become too flexible and needed to temper that to ensure the results that we needed to see. And then when you realize that you've done that, you can't leapfrog backwards, it becomes a stunner for people. So you have to kind of roll it back slowly where everyone kind of gets on board with you.

Tammy Severino [00:36:19]:
So it's a learning lesson about where that balance piece is. And I think it does all become about balance. So I periodically like to look and measure the scales to make sure that I've got the balance going, so that the numbers are coming in where we need them, in all the different data points, and that the team feels that they're getting everything that they need and have a certain amount of flexibility to have work life balance and such. But there has to be sort of this. Otherwise one side flips a little too far. I had done it the other way personally, where it was all work at one point and didn't want to see my team land in that space. And I think I went a little too far. So I had to balance it back.

Jeff Berkman [00:37:03]:
Going from that role of being a consultant. Right. To for profit and nonprofit organizations and then coming in and almost sort of having to take what you were doing as a consultant and transition that over to now being the leader of the organization that you were formerly a consultant of. And that's a role that I think you see quite a bit where someone will come in as an outside advisor, and eventually maybe they end up on the board, maybe they end up CEO of the company. But now you're not instructing, you're responsible in a different way.

Tammy Severino [00:37:36]:
There is a big difference between consultant and full time in a space, and I've done that in the past where I was in the C suite, but not at the very, very top. So it became a little bit of a learning curve. And when you are a consultant, you are also used to everything that needs doing in your business, you do. So learning how to delegate is a component that you have to get comfortable with and also learning to ensure that you have good people surrounding you so that when you delegate, you don't have a panic attack over it. So I do have a really good team, and that makes it much easier. So that's how we are growing the way we are growing.

Jeff Berkman [00:38:18]:
It's actually an interesting question or point, is that at the management level, you're dealing with people who work for you, who are employees, and then you have this whole group, thousands of volunteers that you rely on and you need, and you can ask them to do things, but there's only a level of so much that you can ask them to do, but you need them. Right? And so most organizations are people like, as we talked about before, people are coming to work. This is their job. They get paid for it. They may be very passionate about it, but in a different scenario, you now have the people work for you, but you have all these people out there that you have to deal with in a different way. So I assume that must be a challenge that's unique to the nonprofit. There's a community based organization that you're not going to see in a for profit necessarily.

Tammy Severino [00:39:05]:
There are a lot of organizations that have a small number of volunteers, and then there's a group of nonprofits that have a big nonprofit workforce. We're fortunate that we're on that side, and we do have a lot of folks. We try to provide them with a tremendous amount of resources. We make sure to say thank you, because sometimes that's the oops is if you don't say thank you. So we try to thank them often and meaningfully, but we have a team that is dedicated to working with them so that they can be successful in their work at the troop or service unit level. It's training, it's guidance, it's updating. It's helping them resolve a mini cris or a big crisis that they have so that they can get back to their focus, which is helping the girls have the best Girl scout experience they can year over year.

Jeff Berkman [00:40:04]:
So isn't that the same in every organization, though? Right? You need training, you need guidance, you need support. You need to thank people when they've done a good job and let them be critical when it's the appropriate time to be critical so that they can learn. Right. It's not just Girl Scouts, not just community based or nonprofit. It's everything. And this is what people need to learn. Right. Again, I go back to what I say to a lot of clients is I understand your frustration.

Jeff Berkman [00:40:31]:
One, I was in house for many years, and so I saw multiple organizations and how they were run. And two, I'm on a management team that runs a business with almost 100 people. And you have to not only service clients, which is your constituency, on loud end, but you also have your staff that you have to deal with on a daily basis and make sure that they're again, getting what they need, the guidance, the support, the problem solving skills, and addressing those. So it's a challenge for all organization.

Tammy Severino [00:41:01]:
It's all people management, because whether they're volunteers or they're on staff, that's your human capital. And without them, you don't get the job done. So it's ensuring that they're trained, that they're appreciated, that they are guided and coached to be the best that they're going to be able to be, so that you get to that end result. In our case, that end result is providing the best Girl scout experience possible for the girls.

Jeff Berkman [00:41:29]:
So what's the quality you think that you need as a leader in a nonprofit or community based organization that is different, substantially different than from profit business?

Tammy Severino [00:41:40]:
I think for profits are likely more focused on that bottom line. I think for nonprofits because we're focused on the mission. Empathy is one of the most critical skills. And being a good listener, leaders come with ideas. I am no different. I come with lots of ideas, but I have to be willing to listen to the ideas of others and then help lift those up, whether it's to our board or to other members of the staff to put things into place, because it's not about me. The organization will go on for years and years, long after I'm gone. So the idea is to be a good listener, so that there's a next generation of volunteers, a next generation of team members that are pushing for greater growth and fantastic programming.

Jeff Berkman [00:42:29]:
Yeah. So that concept of being a good listener is so important. Think of this runs across every organization, right? So we tell people all the time, we want to hear your ideas. We want to know where we're going wrong. We may not take every one of them, but at least we want to hear them. Right? And the other thing is, I tell people who work with me is I want to know if I've missed something, like I don't know everything. You can't expect me to know everything. And you may say something that I haven't seen, or you may see it in a different way.

Jeff Berkman [00:42:56]:
That's a better approach. Don't be afraid to tell me. There's no pride of authorship or of servicing the clients here, other than doing the best for everybody. Right. So it's the same thing for you. Again, you must be getting sort of this from so many different sides. Right. You have your board that you answer to.

Jeff Berkman [00:43:12]:
You have the girls, you have the leaders, you have your own staff, and they all have different ways of looking at things. But I'm sure there's some valuable information and perhaps guidance that you're seeing, particularly from your board, I would imagine.

Tammy Severino [00:43:25]:
Absolutely. They come with ideas that are so fantastic that one of the things you have to learn to do is temper the pace because you want to build. I've seen organizations build where there's poor infrastructure. So if a certain pot of dollars goes away, a program fails because there was nothing to backfill. So I believe in building with a strong infrastructure, and then you can grow from there, and then you build that infrastructure and grow again. So great ideas sometimes have to be tempered to allow the infrastructure and the resources to back them up so that you can continue to grow and do so well.

Jeff Berkman [00:44:03]:
So many organizations, whether they're for profit businesses or certainly community based organizations, nonprofits, they have a board of directors, a board of advisors, some have both. What are you looking for in that skill set of people? What is the sort of group that you're looking to to give you advice, to tell you something that you're not thinking about, to give you direction in a way that you may not be getting from yourself. And you need that third party to come in.

Tammy Severino [00:44:32]:
Our board members are women and men. They are older and younger. They are from the north and south of the island, the east, the west. So they have a vested interest in wanting to see Girl Scouts thrive. And they bring different skill sets. We have accountants and bankers and attorneys, pediatrician, someone who's involved with schools, people who have different skills that when we look at them, they make a very complete circle. That benefits the program, efforts that we execute because of relationships, and it benefits the structure of our organization. So that's our properties, our team, everything that we do.

Tammy Severino [00:45:18]:
So we're looking for folks who are in varied businesses and are able and willing to provide the three t's that you talk about in nonprofit land. It's time, talent and treasure. So they provide their time coming to meetings, serving on committees, even being ambassadors out in the community to talk about the things that we're doing at Girl Scouts or at whatever organization they're serving on, that you are an ambassador as a board member, talking about those good works so that there can be more and better of them. And their talent is the skills that they're bringing. So if you coming on a board, you're coming with the skills to advise legally that the organization is making proper steps in that space, that kind of thing.

Jeff Berkman [00:46:06]:
Yeah, no, that's important because again, we get approached often about company will want to set up some advisory board and what those talents should be. And obviously often it's about, well, we need to raise money or whatever it is, but really it's that they need advice in so many different ways. And having that array of talent on the board or as an advisor is certainly something that many companies emerging, developing companies, and just well healed companies can benefit from. Again, we can't think of everything. You're running a huge organization. You can't think of everything. And getting sort of that outside third party looking in and giving you thoughts about things that may be right in front of you or you may not be thinking about it. The importance of that, I'm sure is immeasurable.

Jeff Berkman [00:46:49]:
So I think we're about to conclude. But a couple more questions. Did I miss anything that you wanted to tell us about Girl Scout, about running a huge organization like this and something maybe a nugget of wisdom that people can take?

Tammy Severino [00:47:02]:
If you want to get involved in an organization, do so. I imagine your listeners are from near and far. Find an organization that has a mission that speaks to you and offer your time to them. People get scared about the treasure part because boards are expected to help make sure that an organization has sufficient resources. But it's not all on the backs of the board. So don't be scared or turned off by that part. If you see a girl selling cookies, say yes. Help work on her skills.

Tammy Severino [00:47:37]:
She's learning money management and customer service and all of those entrepreneurial skills. So say yes. If you are a past Girl Scout, reach out to your local council, because we do love to find our alumni so that we can invite them to be part of things that our councils are doing. And they, better than anyone else, know all the wonderful things that are going on in the councils because they experience it themselves as kids. But be involved in your community. There are so many good organizations out there. They're all doing good work in all different spaces, whether it's social services, animal welfare, disease based assistance, arts education. Be involved in an organization because there are so many needs in our country.

Tammy Severino [00:48:29]:
And the nonprofit industry is doing remarkable things to help people, but they can't do it in a vacuum. They need lots of people involved.

Jeff Berkman [00:48:39]:
Yeah, that's great. I mean, some of the things you talked about we could just go on for forever about teaching girls and teaching people about financial literacy is a huge problem. Right. And there are lots of organizations that are trying to do that. And starting at a young age, teaching girls about money management, teaching them to be confident in sales, is not an easy thing. I mean, some people are great at it. Some people, it's really difficult. Right? So having to knock on a door, ask somebody to do something that you don't feel comfortable doing, just like my daughter, that little time when she tapped somebody on the back and said, can you move? Right.

Jeff Berkman [00:49:12]:
So it's just a great story. And everything you say about supporting these organizations, whether it's Girl Scouts or something else, our country and society needs it as a whole. Can I ask you one more question? But if you don't want to answer it because you'll maybe skew the scale. What's your favorite Girl Scout cookie?

Tammy Severino [00:49:31]:
My favorite cookie? I love the samoas.

Jeff Berkman [00:49:33]:
Yeah, the samosas are awesome.

Tammy Severino [00:49:35]:
But I'm a coffee and tea drinker a lot. I have a glass of water right now, but I've been drinking coffee all morning and I like to dunk. And I like very simple trefoils for dunking. It's a perfect little short.

Jeff Berkman [00:49:48]:
There you go. Well, Tammy, I mean, your story is just amazing. The story of Girl scouts in general and Girl Scouts of Suffolk county is so interesting. And I hope that everybody who was listening realized, even though we talked a lot about Girl Scouts, what you talked about really is about running an organization and the skill set you need, particularly for a nonprofit. But just as a leader of a huge organization like yours, so our firm has the privilege to represent a variety of nonprofits whose impact is immeasurable. What's clear is the community based organization, through the efforts of your tireless leaders and supporters, fill a huge role that government can't support all the time. Nonprofits are essential to our society. So as Tammy said, please go out and volunteer, provide financial support, start an organization.

Jeff Berkman [00:50:34]:
Oh, and if you need help doing that, we do that all the time. We advise nonprofits, so feel free to reach out. Before we wrap up today, I just want to extend really my heartfelt thank you to Tammy for joining and being part of this podcast today. I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your insights and experiences. It really was a pleasure hearing everything about your story and about Girl Scouts of Suffolk county. And for listeners who are tuning in, we hope you found today's discussion enlightening and informative. And if you have any questions on any of the topics we discussed or anything else, feel free to reach out. So Falcon, Rapperport, and Berkman is a full service business law firm.

Jeff Berkman [00:51:10]:
We are multidisciplinary and interdisciplinary. We have offices across New York, California, and Florida. Our breadth of services offers a full range of legal practices and our team works collaboratively to simplify, complex, and, as I said, interdisciplinary matters. We differentiate ourselves by approaching matters with a level of depth and experience that's untouched often by your typical advisors. Following through on a firm wide commitment to excellent service, offering access to thought leaders in numerous areas of professional practice, and engaging in a partnership with our clients to develop and achieve legal, business, and personal objectives. And again, thank you, Tammy. Really appreciate you being part of this today, and good luck with the cookie season, and I will certainly be enjoying them as soon as the boxes are delivered.

Tammy Severino [00:51:59]:
Excellent. Thank you so much for having me. This is fun.