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Veterinary Blueprints
The Veterinary Blueprint Podcast is all about taking the blueprint of industry experts and breaking it down in short, digestible episodes you can use to take your practice to the next level. Join host Bill Butler as he interviews experts on client and practice management, financial strategies, human resources, and more. Gain valuable insights and stay ahead in the veterinary field by tuning in to tips from successful experts inside and outside the veterinary industry.
Veterinary Blueprints
Leading Well In Veterinary Medicine
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Leadership shouldn’t be a consolation prize for being the most experienced person in the room. Bill sits down with Andrea Crabtree, CVPM and founder of Fur Paws Consulting, to unpack why promoting from within without training sets teams up to struggle—and how practices can turn that around with protected time, focused CE, and clear role design. We talk about the real forces squeezing clinics right now—cost of care, distributor price hikes, wage pressure, and potential tariffs—and share practical pricing tactics that maintain trust without shocking clients who visit once a year.
Andrea makes a compelling case for total compensation over wage wars. From health benefits and retirement matches to license fees, CE support, and schedule flexibility, she explains how to showcase your true investment with a one‑page total rewards snapshot that changes how staff see value. We also spotlight associates as everyday leaders, outlining steps owners can take to bring doctors into leadership meetings, reserve nonclinical hours for projects, and require communication and management CE alongside medical updates.
Competition still rules too many local markets, but where managers and owners collaborate—sharing policies, scripts, and benchmarks—results improve fast. Andrea highlights SoCal networks that cultivate CVPM talent and raise performance across clinics, then previews a new two‑day Veterinary Executive Leadership Workshop in Southern California featuring modules on HR, insurance, law, finance, and tax planning.
If you’re ready to replace burnout and guesswork with systems, coaching, and community, this conversation delivers a usable blueprint. Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with a colleague who’s building their leadership bench.
Host Information
Bill Butler – Contact Information
Direct – 952-208-7220
https://butlervetinsurance.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/billbutler-cic/
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I'd like to spend just a few minutes talking about leadership because I know that's very you're very passionate about that. And how do we, you know, how do we improve improve leadership in vetmed, especially knowing that resilience isn't really a core-taught skill?
SPEAKER_04:Education, right? Commitment, training, collaboration. I would say I think what we do on a whole is we pick the most experienced person or someone we trust and we promote from within. And we say, hey, you're promoted to practice manager, or hey, you're the front office manager, hey, you're gonna start doing inventory. And that's great because we trust that person, or you know, again, we promote from within. But what we do is we put that person in a quote leadership position, and then we say, go team. Yeah. And we don't give them the support, the training, the time that that person needs. And then by the way, they're still supposed to be doing the other job that they are hired to do.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Veterinary Blueprint Podcast, brought to you by Butler Vet Insurance, hosted by Bill Butler. The Veterinary Blueprint Podcast is for veterinarians and practice managers who are looking to learn about working on their practice instead of in their practice. Each episode, we will bring you successful proven blueprints from others, both inside and outside the veterinary industry. Welcome to today's episode.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to this episode of the Veterinary Blueprints Podcast. I am your host, Bill Butler. This podcast is all about bringing business and entrepreneurship ideas to practice owners and managers. And today I am very happy to be joined by Andrea Crabtree. She is a C V PM and founder of Fur Paws Consulting out of SoCal, California. She focuses on leadership and HR strategies, helping veterinary teams build healthier, more resilient cultures. She has lots of experience. I won't say how much, Andrea, I'll let you do that, but she has lots of experience in practice management. And her and her team have a mission to shift vetmed from burnout and blame to connection and collaboration. Thank you for joining us, Andrea.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks for having me, Bill. I'm super excited to be here today and hang out with you.
SPEAKER_00:I am as well. Now, uh, truth be told, you have your own podcast, which we'll chat about in a little bit. But I was on your podcast. Thank you for having me. You're on my podcast. Thanks for being here. But the burning question, the number one question I have for you is how does a young little girl in SoCal, California at the age of four, become a Packers fan?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, so huge Green Bay Packers fan.
SPEAKER_04:I will tell you it started. I was about four, yep, four years old, give or take. And uh, you know, one itty bitty tidy television. I remember on a Sunday morning in my jammies, watching football with my dad, and as a true daddy's girl, um I remember him cheering for the team, and the team had these cool cheese hats on, and the colors were great, they were green and gold, right? And I just remember thinking like, this is fantastic. I I want to be this fan too. And he was cheering for them, and my dad is not a Green Bay fan, so he must have been like didn't like the team that they were playing or needed that win to go into playoffs. So I was cheering for this very cool-looking team, and they had cool hats on, and so forever will I be a Green Bay fan. And my kid now is a Green Bay fan, and like if you ever want to break into any of my you know passwords, everything is Green Bay Packer passwords, and uh my weight belt is a Green Bay Packers weight belt, and like everything I own is Green Bay Packer, like yeah, the Green and Gold Packer fan. Yep, green and gold is is cut me in, I bleed green and gold for sure.
SPEAKER_00:So that's interesting. So I actually am from Wisconsin originally and lived in Green Bay for seven years. And so uh I grew up a Green Bay Packer fan, but I I think there's a little bit of an age difference between us. I grew up in the Lindicke era, which was the 80s, which was not a good time. They they were uh one time in the playoffs the entire time Lindickey was there. And so the entire time I lived in Wisconsin in the early part of my life, the Packers made the playoffs one time. So uh it was the Bears era, and we moved to Minnesota. And long story short, for those who are on video, I am now a huge Minnesota Wild fan, uh, all thing Minnesota Sports. But that was uh curious to me reading your bio and doing a little research before we we uh got together here on the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, my husband's a Tampa Bay fan, so our house is the Battle of the Bays on a regular basis. Sunday mornings we fight for the remote.
SPEAKER_00:The battle of the bays. Well, thanks for joining us. Um, we met through Vet Partners, which is an organization of business professionals who specialize in helping veterinarians and everything animal health related in the world. Uh, about a year ago. I was my first vet partners meeting last fall. Um, and so we connected and we've bumped into each other at some various stuff besides vet partners as well. And you just have a really uh a huge energy behind you, Andrea, in everything you're passionate about. So, where did this animal health passion come from? Why did you get into animal health? And and give us a little background on how you wound up where you are today.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'd love to. I was um recently talking with some colleagues about why I um had gotten into vetmed. And honestly, it it came from my dad. I grew up around animals all my life. I grew up on um a ranch when I was younger and have lived that life since I was a wee lass. Um, always had critters and um had come from the background of um my dad was a police officer and then um animal control, because we had a big piece of property, he would always bring critters home from animal control. And it was like, okay, this is the last ditch effort to try to keep this critter alive. So here you go, try to nurse it back to health, and if so, we'll release it into the wild. And if not, like it goes to Jesus and that's okay, right? Survival of the fittest. So I got to nurse critters um from when I was, like I said, a wee last from just very, very young. So animal husbandry was something um that was I was blessed to do from from very young. So that carried through my whole life. And then going to college, there was uh, I come from a family of entrepreneurs. There was not anything that that really was out there for me, except for going to vet school. I I wasn't you know um something to go to college for. Um, and I didn't want to go to vet school, I was a single mom and it was too expensive and a long, long time. And it just wasn't something that kind of stuck with me, but I knew I wanted to be in animal husbandry. So trying to figure that out and and and being in the coming from family of entrepreneurs, how can I navigate through vetmed? So getting a degree in animal health science and then working in animal health in in the veterinary space, trying to figure out like how can I make my degree and my passion for animals? How do I, how do I navigate the two those together? Um, and and working in the veterinary hospital and then realizing like wow, leadership is something that comes from my five my family and and and being an entrepreneur. And so, how can I kind of smash all this up together? And through that, and being a practice manager out what the product was for POS Consulting, and and and I love it. It's fun, it's great. So that's kind of how that all evolved.
SPEAKER_00:So, animals, your whole life, passionate about it. We were chatting before this. I was just on a trip to Wyoming riding horses, and Andrea is questioning Bill's judgment doing that. Like, why would you do that? I mean, I'd never been around horses. You you own a horse or have horses growing up around that. I'm just I I never really got it until I was out in Wyoming riding horses. Like, oh man, these guys are awesome. My wife is now very concerned that I'm gonna try and buy a horse. I'm like, no, horses are like boats and cabins and everything else. You don't want to actually own them, you want to have friends with horses or friends with a boat, or friend with a cabin. And so I'm just trying to figure out who I know.
SPEAKER_04:I'll be that friend for you, Bill.
SPEAKER_00:Head down to SoCal and check out your horse. But but I know that that for you, you had mentioned this and in in in talking about, you know, our our what do we want to chat about on this episode of the podcast. You know, leadership is really big for you in leadership and practices. You mentioned it just now, leadership. And and so um I think we'll we'll get to leadership in a second, but one of the questions that that I had for you was, you know, you're out in practices, you're you know, you were just at AVMA, um, which happened a little bit ago, and and vet partners meeting and around a lot of professional. What are you hearing in the industry here, uh, third, fourth quarter of 2024? I'm sorry, 25. We're in. Um, what what is uh what's the word on the street with veterinarians, veterinary practices in the consulting world?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like you said, I'm in quite a few practices um all over the country. So I feel like I have a good pulse on um, well, specifically the practices I'm in are are privately owned, smaller practices. Um, so kind of the word on the street in in that particular type of a practice. Um, and then what was um the buzz and what we talked quite a bit about at the Vet Partners Conference and then networking at AVMA, quite a bit of discussion really focused around the cost of care and how veterinary medicine has really tried to um I would say tackle and handle and and and wrap our head around how we're handling um price increases, what we're doing with um the price increases to us as the practices when we're getting fee increases from distributors, manufacturers, when we're buying our goods from employee costs, right? Those costs are skyrocketing and rising. Um, and and then how we're handling that to our clients, right? To our pet owners. And and some of the practices that haven't taken price increases for years and years are very nominal price increases. I see some of them are really, really trying to spike those increases now. And they're um, we're really seeing large shifts of price increases. And some practices I know are doing quarterly, semi-annual, if not regular annual increases, you know, upwards of like 10, 15%. And and that's that's significant, especially if that's regular.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And then price practices that haven't um or have been consistent when they've been doing price increases are still doing that same amount. And I and I think to myself, like, wow, we can only do that for so long before that's really that's really not going to be our answer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not sustainable, right?
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, in the insurance world where we've everyone's complained about price increases and premium increases on their insurance. And you know, when you talk about how you take pricing increases as a veterinary practice, let's say I've got my my cat Louie, my little buddy, and I bring him in for my once one time annually, but you're taking a monthly or a quarterly increase, well, I'm gonna eat four increases, bringing him in one time a year. And so thinking about where those increases happen, how you're putting them in put in play versus you know a one-time annual increase. But it's hard because if distributors are are taking increases on you three times a year, it's it's hard to say, well, we're just gonna do one because you take an increase, and then two months later distributor takes an increase on you, like, okay, well now I'm back to where I was before I took my increase.
SPEAKER_04:Right, exactly. And I I think that may even get worse if we're starting to see some of our products have a significant increase with the tariffs. If we start seeing those tariffs start to hit us, um, where before I don't know that we did, um, and now I'm not sure if we will start seeing some of those in even more significant increases. Um, I think that's kind of like still to be determined. Um, so if we start seeing that, oh, right, like how much more is that gonna work? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I've I've got another question for you in that realm talking about because you'd mentioned teams, staffing, costs. Um, and I know a lot of the startup practices that we work with uh across the country are really trying to be competitive in the benefit space because you know, all the corporates out there are they they're they have the ability from scale to offer much more robust benefit packages. And I don't think that it was a case where you had an independently owned, uh privately held practice who didn't want to offer benefits before. I think they looked at it as I don't know if I can afford it. Now I see many of them feel that they can't not offer benefits to be competitive in the marketplace to attract talent. What are you seeing?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and it's really understanding the the total compensation package. And I really um I talk with um I sit on the board of one of the RBT schools locally and I I talk with um the students and I really say it's not about your wage, right? And I say that to practice owners all the time. It's not about the wage, it's about your total compensation package. Um, so look at things of it's not even just your benefits like your health insurance or your dental insurance, right? It's like look at everything. And sometimes that's not always what they're putting in your benefit package, but what are they um what are they they putting into your culture even too, right? And so it is there a culture of um maybe some benefits um around flexibility of scheduling. Sure. So, you know, as a of a profession that's 80% women, we tend to have babies, believe it or not. And so sometimes we need some flexibility with um having a flexible schedule. And and honestly, that goes with with dads as well, if they need some flexibility with benefits of scheduling. Um, you know, I gotta pick up my kiddo from dance class or take my kiddo to soccer or you know, those types of things.
SPEAKER_00:It can even just go towards your attitude. It can even just go towards your attitude as a business overall, veterinary practice or otherwise, about how you support your team. Like, you know, here at Butler Vet Insurance, we give all of our team members 30 days of PTO a year. So that equates to six weeks of vacation if you include weekends. So that's a pretty big chunk. Yeah. But you know, I can't afford to pay what some of the huge commercial insurance shops pay from a salary perspective. But I can give you know 30 days off a year PTO. And you know, there's different states have different rules with safe and sick time and um paid family leave and these sorts of things. But if you give a very robust time off schedule, and I think it's important to ask your team what's important to them because it's not always about money, survey the team. It's about what's what's important to them. Like, hey, if you offer some spiffs, I mean, uh, my agent Tyler, one of the biggest things I can do for him is look him in the eye, shake his hand on Friday and say, Thanks for a good job done. Like, he would rather have that than$100. Yeah, and everyone's a little bit different in what they want versus um versus that. Uh last thought on that, Andrew, is one thing that that I've done and has been successful for me just from showing benefits, is I show my share of FICA Social Security, I show my share of workers' compensation payroll, I show what 3% match on our simple IRA is. And I think, you know, when you say this is how much you're going to get paid, it's really easy to get wrapped into this is your hourly weight, this is what you get paid for the year, but what's my total cost as a business owner? Maybe not every single thing, but the biggies, right? What's my share of FICO Social Security? What's my share of workers' compensation? You know, we buy errors and emissions insurance here in the insurance industry. I pay for your veterinary professional, that's$500. So, I mean, all those line items, and it winds up saying, okay, well, you're making, you know,$50,000 a year, but when you total up everything you get from working here as an employee, it's really$75,000 when you total in benefits or you know, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_04:The cost, the total cost.
SPEAKER_00:And and and so, you know, I think showing the team, they're like, oh yeah, that that actually is a pretty big chunk of money that that you're owing.
SPEAKER_04:Do that for employee reviews. I do encourage managers to list all that out when they do employee reviews so they employees can see the cost of everything, their benefits, workers' comp, um, all of those things, uh, so that they can see um right, that not only what you're getting, but on the business aspect of it too. What is this costing the business?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it's not just the perks of it's not just$17 an hour,$22 an hour. That's right.
SPEAKER_04:It's not just the wage. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Because you and I think sharing some of that with your team does also help pull back the curtain from the stress of owning a business. And like, oh, that's a lot of money. And there's 15 of us. Yeah, exactly. There's 15 of us, because I think it's easy as an employee somewhere to get put into your your little bubble in your blinders and just worry about you saying, My making 22 and she's making 23, or he's making it, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Yep, that's why I say it's not just about your hourly rate, there's so much more involved. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So a lot of pressure out there on the pricing model stuff, but some of that's out of our control. So that's that's some of the buzz in the street. But but I'd like to spend just a few minutes talking about leadership because I know that's very you're very passionate about that. And how do we, you know, how do we improve improve leadership in vetmed, especially knowing that resilience isn't really a core-taught skill?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, wow. So uh how much time do we have?
SPEAKER_00:Right, well, not not as much as you you could cover, but let's uh let's give the Cliff Notes version.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. It's such a hard question just to tackle in like a you know, one one line.
SPEAKER_00:Answer this one question very simply. How do we improve leadership?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, right. Education, right? Commitment, training, collaboration. I would say I think what what we do on a whole is we pick the most experienced person or someone we trust and we promote from within. Yeah. And I think if that's great, right? We pick the RBT, C V T LBT that's been with the profession the longest, or the practice the longest, or the CSR that's been there the longest, and we say, hey, you're promoted to practice manager, or hey, you're the front office manager, hey, you're gonna start doing inventory. And and that's great because we trust that person, or you know, again, we promote from within. But what we do is we put that person in a quote leadership position, and then we say, go team. Yeah. And we don't give them the support, the training, the time that that person needs. And then by the way, they're still supposed to be doing the other job that they are are hired to do.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't backfill the LVT position that you were doing, and so you're doing that 80% of the time.
SPEAKER_04:And now they have another hat on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, put full-time inventory manager.
SPEAKER_04:So I would say to improve leadership is to recognize that that person needs leadership development and training. And so look at there's so much CE available, right? There's so many different resources inside VetMed and outside of VetMed. And so give that person in your practice and honestly, give everybody in your practice an opportunity to be off the floor, right? Out of their job, and give them time to attend some CE. And maybe that CE is listening to a podcast for an hour a week.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And give them time to say, hey, that's paid, that's off the clock, right? Or not off the clock, but paid, but like off the floor time that says, I need you to listen to this book, listen to CE, go to an event, go to a webinar, go to a class. And there's so much that's virtual. They can sit in an exam room, they can go into surgery when there's no surgeries being done. We have plenty of square footage in our practices that's not being utilized 100% of the time. Take a laptop, take some earbuds, go sit, do a webinar, um, go listen to a book on tape, whatever it is, find a resource that you can say, go listen to this leadership class, go take an inventory class, go listen to something on DEA, go listen to something about your local veterinary medical board, something, whether compliance, HR, wherever it is that will help the practice grow, help that person grow, whether it's, you know, I mean, there's so many topics, yeah, but some type of leadership that is going to help that person's skill set grow and develop, that invest in the person and will invest in your practice, absolutely 100%, right? So I I just think that we miss that component when we promote people. And even when we hire externally, even somebody you know coming in, C V PM, MBA, like they may know their stuff, but oh my gosh, invest in that person just as much as veterinarians or you know, need their CE, right? And the latest and the greatest. Like invest in leadership development and and send them to. A conference or get them CE, teach them on an ongoing basis what that looks like and and collaborate. Oh my goodness, collaborate, like have some communication and talk and and and work together on what the practice needs. I think that's a huge missing piece of how our practices function.
SPEAKER_00:Why do you think that's missing as a whole? Why do you think that's missing from practices where they aren't investing or they're not signing their team or they're not, do they just why do you why do you see that as a hurdle?
SPEAKER_04:Um, I think because we always have a case. There's always a case. There's always another case. And there's always going to be another case. There's always something to do. And so to take somebody off the floor means we're taking somebody away from another case. And there's another case. And by the way, there's another case. And oh yeah, guess what? There's another case. Yeah. And I we just don't make time for it. We don't make space for it. We don't, we don't allow for that.
SPEAKER_00:It's easy to say, we'll take some CE next month, and then next month comes and the calendar's full, and then the next month comes and the calendar's full. It's about being intentional with coming up with a plan of saying, okay, by the end of this time, we're going to have X amount done, or you're going to have this designation.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You had said something before we hopped on that that was an interesting statistic. Um, and it was the number of practices, number of practice managers, and then number of CVPMs. And I'm what was that? What were those numbers again that you kind of rattled off?
SPEAKER_04:So there's um a thousand CVPMs, and we just um are in the middle actually of another testing. So there's I promise you, there's just over a thousand. There was just under, and since we're testing right now, there's just over um a thousand CVPMs in the United States and Canada, and there's over 35,000 veterinary hospitals.
SPEAKER_00:So like do that. Small animal, large animal mix, corporate, it doesn't matter. We're just we're talking about practice managers who really, you know, as you talked about it, this could be somebody who started working in a vet practice out of high school, maybe didn't go to college, worked in a practice for five, 10, 15 years, got promoted to practice manager, and now you have, you know, somebody with potentially just a high school diploma running a two or three million dollar revenue business, hiring, firing, inventory, like everything payroll, insurance, all those things, technology, and and they, you know, they're they're not we're not investing in them enough.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's it's it's disheartening to hear um that we only have a thousand certified veterinary practice managers. I know obviously there's that we're growing by leaps and bounds.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um when I became a certified um, gosh, I won't even say when, or how few years ago, um, there was only 350. And so we've we've grown exponentially for sure, and we're still young. Um, you know, I think we're we're probably 30 years in, maybe, yeah, I think just over 30 years in. So, you know, hey, we're we're still young. Um, but getting the word out that the certification, you know, is out there and there's some actual training that's involved in the streets.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that's where the collaboration you're talking about comes from, is being with your peers. And in the insurance industry, you know, people who sit in my chair who own an insurance agency are so worried about their staff going somewhere and hearing about another opportunity and leaving and saying, oh, I could make more money over here. But really, you know, as I'm sure you'll you'll affirm, like, if you build a really good culture and somebody's happy to work for you, it doesn't really matter what they hear somewhere else. They're still gonna come back home, even if they're going to a course. I know that's a huge hesitation um in my industry about sending out young uh go-getters to get in education in the in the insurance industry because they're hesitant and like, well, they might get poached somewhere. It's gonna happen no matter what.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's gonna happen no matter what, because if they're well, first of all, if they're looking for another job, like they're not gonna find it at VHMA, they're gonna find it at their practice next door. And if they're looking for another job, then there's something wrong with your practice, right? Like, oh um and hopefully it if there's if there is something wrong at at your practice, then your practice manager is gonna come back with some ideas of how to fix it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, how to fix it versus I don't want to deal with it.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Yeah, and so be open to the ideas that the practice manager brings but brings back to um your practice that the VHMA conferences next month at um in New Orleans. And I'm I'm looking forward to that. They're definitely energizing. Yeah, um, practice managers come back just super jazz about the stuff they've learned. They can't wait to get back to their practice.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you don't want to taunt that down when they come back either. You want to like encourage that, like, okay, yes, roll with it. What can you do to make this better? Instead of like, well, I don't know if we can do that.
SPEAKER_04:Like, yeah, what do you think? It's not uh if we can, it's how we can.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, how how can we do it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, yeah, one of the with my team, that it's funny because we do offer that PTO I mentioned. Um, one of the first things that because my team, because we're very much on LinkedIn, some of them they're getting hit, you know, weekly, a couple times a month from recruiters. And the first thing it if they ever respond, my one of my agents always responds back is, Yeah, I currently have 30 days of PTO and I get that day one. So do I get that day one with you? And the answer is always no. Like, well, no, you don't get 30 days of PTO day one starting or and so you know, again, it's about building a and mostly he just likes to send it to see what their answer is. And then he always comes into my office and says, Hey, guess what? I just heard this from you know, agency whatever, or carrier whatever. They just offered this and I laughed at him. Um, you know, it's uh it's about building that culture and in leadership. Um, and so you know, you talked about leadership gaps in practices. What can we do to support some of the veterinarians, either veterinary practice owners or associates um within practices from leadership and have them step up a little bit more in leadership roles?
SPEAKER_04:I would say the same thing is give them the support that they need as far as like time off the floor, make sure that they're able to go to a leadership development class, make sure associates don't even understand that they are considered leaders in the practice. So, first of all, like let them know if you have initials after your name, DVM, RBT, LBT, C B T C B P M, like you are a leader. Some of them don't recognize that. Anybody in the practice is going to look at an associate and say, Hey, you are a leader. So you are put on a pedestal. So first identify with the fact that you are a leader, so people are looking to you to lead. And then time away from doing the job that you regularly do and invest in them to say, Hey, go to a leadership class. And this is not like, hey, I'm gonna go to a conference and learn more about diabetes or eyeballs, like that's great, and you should, but you also need to be going to a communication class and how to be a leader class and all the things that our you know leaders should be doing, and and practice owners, I would say encourage your associates to attend those types of classes and make it mandatory as part of their CE allowance to say so much of your CE needs to be on this subject, right? And involve your associates in your leadership meetings, and hopefully they're all having leadership meetings, monthly, if not weekly, leadership meetings, and bring your associates in once a month to those meetings and say, hey, what can you contribute?
SPEAKER_00:How do we improve? So you'd mentioned collaboration, and and you know, you and I both work in a similar realm where it's more the private, independently owned practices versus the corporate. And I think there probably used to be a lot more view of competition amongst each other, amongst veterinarians on the private side, but now it's a little bit more collaboration of the privates versus the corporate, not getting into the politics of that, because I think every every part of it has a role in animal health. But are you seeing more of a shift towards collaboration amongst private practice owners versus competition?
SPEAKER_04:Gosh, I would love to say yes, but honestly, I I still feel like the answer is no.
SPEAKER_00:Um Why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'll tell you because veterinarians to get into vet school is cutthroat. It's competition.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:And the people that that get into vet school have to be competitive from the get-go, right? They they need to be valedictorians, they need to be super, super competitive to even get to the top so that they can get into vet school. So from day one, they're competing with their peers. Yes. And so when they get into practice, they're already competitive, right? And it's interesting.
SPEAKER_03:And then to get the job they want has to be competitive.
SPEAKER_00:It's interesting because everyone in the insurance world is like, oh, you must for you know, from the practices you work with, you must get a lot of referrals. I'm like, no, not really. Like they don't refer, they don't, they're not like, oh, you should go get your insurance from Bill. He's a great guy. They're like, they don't want to share me because I'm the secret or whatever. And so I'm like, yeah, they're kind of competitive, they're very insular, they're in their own thing. And and um, you know, I think there's some collaboration amongst, you know, usually it's who they went to school with, it's their class.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, it's their classmates. But beyond that, yeah, because there's safety in there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's safety in there. We went through this or arduous process together, but um, it's not as uh it's oddly not as collaborative. There's less collaboration here, like even in the insurance industry. I have competitors locally in in the insurance world, and like I've known them for 15 years, they're great people. Like they've taken some clients from me, I've taken some clients from them. It's just the way insurance is. We rarely step on each other's toes, but I feel like there's a lot more. What do you think would happen to the industry if there was just more collaboration amongst private? Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_04:The the the mountains that we could climb, right? Um, the the things that we could accomplish would be phenomenal if we could just do a little bit more collaboration. And I I see that from I was uh talking um to Jeff and Dave at the Vet Tech Um Cafe podcast not too long ago. And um, one of the big things that we talked about on that podcast was collaboration. And if if if we could collaborate for 10 minutes, just 10 minutes, we could, you know, come up with um maybe on the technician side, coming up with um a consensus on what we're gonna call everybody.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:Right? I mean, not even agree on what they can do as technicians, but let's just agree on a name for the technicians, right? So the things we can do.
SPEAKER_00:Are you a nurse or your technician or are you an assistant or TVT, LVT, or RVT.
SPEAKER_04:But if we could collaborate more, the things that we could do, but everybody has you know a different agenda and we're different states, and we have different, you know, medical boards and we have different governing rules. And so it it just there's just a lot of challenges and hurdles, and and and we just don't, we don't collaborate as much as I would, I was, I would like to see. And and I'm I'm very fortunate because in Orange County in California, we have a um Dr. Peter Weinstein has made a group, um, Vets for Pets, and they are extremely a group of veterinarians, and there's a bunch of managers in there, too. They're very, very collaborative. And then that has really um kind of spilled over when he was the executive director to of the SCBMA um into our SCBMA, and then has spilled over into our manager's group, and we have a very um collaborative um and networking group of managers. So our Orange County area is extremely collaborative, and we have a great, a huge manager's network here that is that way. And so we can see those benefits.
SPEAKER_00:So all those practices that collaborate with each other in SoCal, like are they booked out? Are they are their appointments full? Are they struggling with it?
SPEAKER_04:Right, we're extremely successful. Our practice managers, we probably I don't I don't, I'm just gonna say this because I this my opinion is totally not may not be factual, but we have a very, very concentrated amount of CVPMs in our local area. And that is specifically from our group. Like we grow a lot of CVPMs here, we mentor a lot of C VPMs. Um, I would venture to say we probably per capita probably have the most CVPMs. Um, and then our practices benefit from that, right? We have a lot of um practices here anyway, just because of of our state, but um, we have a lot of successful practices, and and that's from you know, our managers networking and our we have a lot of managers groups. We probably have six managers groups just here in this local SoCal area.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna ask about I was gonna ask about that specifically just thinking of some of the things that I've done with, you know, whether it's well managed practice group or or um VMG, I mean, I think within those groups, and you know, Blue Heron Consulting, I was just out on a trip with them into Wyoming, and you know, the the collaboration amongst the veterinarians at that trip who had never met each other but are willing to share, have conversations and talk. I think if you break down the barrier of like competition into more of a how can we help each other in this industry, and you create some groups, whether, like I said, there's there's plenty out there, VMG, uh, well matched practice group, independent, or um, you know, your your veterinary uh, your VHAs, your veterinary hospital, or your veterinary managers association stuff that's out there. Um, I think the more you collaborate, the the more you can just I've got a question of how to do this. How do you guys do it? Okay, and phone a friend. You know, and 80% of the time you have the right answer. You just need somebody to say, yeah, that's how we do it too. I'm like, okay, good. Now I can make this decision. Somebody else backed me up. I know this is the right thing to do. Or they just say, Well, I would say it like this, you know, that's the right decision, but I'd say it like this, like, oh, that's a really good way to say that. Thanks. Whatever it is.
SPEAKER_04:And that's how our managers um are too. Um, like, don't reinvent the wheel, right? There's plenty of managers that have gone before you and like, don't do it this way because I did it and failed epically. Like, don't do this. Try anything but this.
SPEAKER_00:This works really well. Do this, don't do this.
SPEAKER_03:Uh don't do this, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So let's chat as we're starting to wrap up here, Anna. Let's chat about fur pause consult fur pause consulting, what you offer services, you know, obviously very knowledgeable leadership. You've been around the industry for quite a while. You see a lot of stuff around the country. What do you do at FurPaws? What sets you apart, or or what's, you know, what do you like doing with practices through your consulting business?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so as a practice manager for you know 20 plus years, I um in practices almost every day, different types of practices, mainly small animal, um, or sorry, privately owned, smaller practices, but uh mixed animal, small animal, um, specialty, GP, the whole rig and roll, um, whether they're rural or big practices, it it doesn't necessarily matter. It's it's all about what a practice manager, all the different hats a practice manager has to wear. And and it's working with leadership teams. And sometimes that team could be a practice owner and that's it. Yeah. And a small, you know, two, three, four employee practice, um, and sometimes even a mobile practice with one practice owner, and that's it. And then sometimes a leadership team could be a team of 15, right, with a big leadership team. And so working with practice owners and their leadership team and understanding what the challenges they face. And those challenges are different with depending on the practice, right? Um, most challenges are HR related, and so I will say people. People is really, really hard. It is. Uh, you say it's like icky sticky smells like parvo, right? Um people ing is difficult, it's a struggle. Um, so it's a lot of coaching on communications, how we did it, what was a struggle there, and then you know, working through that at a lot of HR credentials, so understanding the HR aspect of it. Um, and sometimes they're just logistics. It's you know, HR is tough in that sense of how do I hire, how do I fire, how do I retain? What are some good strategies with culture? Um, and some of them are logistics when it comes to things like what posters do I need up, um, what's the DEA rules on this? What's the veterinary medical board say about this? Um, you know, what am I supposed to do about compliance on OSHA? Um, just logistics of keeping your practice open, finances, KPIs, all things a practice owner and manager has to deal with. I mean, I was trying to find insulin for a practice yesterday, right? It just depends on what a practice needs. And being a practice manager for such a long time before I went into consulting, uh, you know, I always say it's like from plumbing to um selling, right? It just depends on what a practice manager has to deal with for that day.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, and I know you bring a lot of passion behind it. You're you're an awesome individual, and you have a lot of stuff going on. So you have your own podcast. Why don't you give a plug for that real quick? Because I was on that. Uh, a lot of fun to be on that podcast. Give your podcast. We'll have all of this in the show notes for listeners, but just give a quick plug for your podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, my podcast is Positive Leadership Podcast. Uh, my co-host is David Liszt, and we have a hoot. So I'm glad that you enjoyed the show. It was an awesome time. We talk about all things um leadership, and we lean into some of the harder subjects. Um, I know there's been some talk about um, you know, podcasts we should kind of stay neutral and never upset anybody. And David and I tend to lean into some of the harder stuff. Um, I will say don't listen to the podcast if your kids are in the car. Um, but we do have a good time. Um, we try to bring a different different guest on um each um time and and pick their favorite thing to talk about. So, guess what we talked about with Bill on the show? Yes, insurance.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we talked about insurance, but we don't talk about insurance here. I bring that to other podcasts. I don't want to bore everyone with insurance here. So we we try and bring on people who are more excited. Well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Um pretty fun. But it's fun, it's a great podcast. It was a lot of good. We do have a lot of fun. We try to keep it fun and uplifting and and uh tell some funny stories and ask some funny questions. So um that's fun. But you know, there's tons of these types of um fun things that I did not have when I was a manager, learning how to be a manager, getting into veterinary medicine. We just didn't have those things around 20 years ago. So I enjoy being able to bring those things to young managers, young leaders um that didn't have those types of resources. But yeah, good. It's fun.
SPEAKER_00:There is no shortage of opportunity to learn out there, and we're collaborating on an event. This will come out before this happens. So um even if you can't register in time or registration's full, why don't you talk about what's new on the horizon for fur pause consulting and what you've got happening uh that we're collaborating on early next year?
SPEAKER_04:I am super excited about this one. Um, the veterinary leadership workshop, um, excuse me, the veterinary executive leadership workshop. That's coming uh in February at the first of the year. Um, we are going to be doing a two-day workshop with five different modules. Uh, let's see, we're gonna be doing HR insurance, um, legal, law, um, finance, and um some tax planning type things. So we're executive leadership. So we're looking at practice owners, practice administrators, practice managers. Um, it will be limited probably to about 80 seats. Um, it will be held in Southern California.
SPEAKER_00:Um February, good time to be in SoCal. Learning how to be a better executive in your role at your practice.
SPEAKER_04:I am super excited about putting this one on. So I've done about seven different um um symposiums in the past. And so this one we're gonna switch it up a little bit different um and put a twist on it. And I'm excited of having um you there as well. And we're you and I are gonna MC and have a little bit of fun, that last little bit of the the the uh day with some some uh summary stuff. I'm excited for that too. It'll be fun.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, planning and leadership stuff. So, you know, you've got a lot going on. So for those uh practice managers listening or veterinary uh practice owners listening, uh, make sure to keep up with what Andrea and her team at FurPause Consulting have going on because there is a lot going on. She's putting out a lot of stuff, and and she just knows a ton of people in the industry. If you want to go to an event, hang out with Andrea for 10 minutes, like I gotta go talk to them, and I know them. And she just she knows everyone. It's a great person to connect with, and it's been awesome hanging out with you the last year or so here in the vet industry as we're bopping around the country uh at different things. So thanks so much for being on, Andrea. Really appreciate your insights and leadership, all things uh practice manager and practice owner related.
SPEAKER_04:Thanks, Bill. This was fun. I appreciate you having me on today.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. As always, make sure to listen, like, and share the podcast. Give us a review, share with a friend or colleague out there. It helps with the algorithms, you know, the internet bots in the back end. Um, thanks so much for listening, everyone, and have a great day.
