ENCORE Caribbean Carnival Chronicles with David Bremang

Diving into the History of Carnival in the Caribbean with David Bremang

In this encore episode Hema revisits her chat with David Bremang about the rich and complex history of Carnival in the Caribbean. From the African origins, Carnival of the French colonized islands and Cedula population, and the rebellion that brought Carnival as we know it today, David shares the origins, cultural significance, and evolution of Carnival, particularly in Trinidad and Toronto. He delves into the Canboulay riots, the various forms of Carnival music, and the importance of preserving the true meanings behind the festivities.

David, who has deep ties to both Trinidadian and Ghanian cultures, shares his experiences and knowledge about the traditions, music, and storytelling that define Carnival across the Caribbean.

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Transcript

David: So there's a lot of satire to Carnival in that essence of we took what they gave us and we made it our own, and we were still respecting what we did back home as well. So there's a lot of layers, a lot of webs to make it happen. And you know, music, food, it all comes together, like in the culture itself. 

 MUSIC

Hema: Hi, it's Hema, Happy New Year. It's January, Carnival season, and it's a great time to revisit my chat with David Bremang about the history of Carnival. So in this week's encore episode, we chat about the origins of Carnival, the significance, and music. This is just a small portion of my full conversation with David, and I'll link the original episode in the show notes if you want to listen to the whole thing.

I'll be back in two weeks with a brand new episode.​

Hema: Hi, David. 

David: Hello. 

Hema: Thank you so much for joining me today. So why don't we start with a little bit of an introduction of who you are and a bit of your background?

David: Yeah, I'm David Bremang um, born and raised in Toronto. Spent basically almost every summer my mom shipped me off to Trinidad till I was 17. So, um, a lot of the broughtupsy of, of who I am is, is coming from Trinidad. I'm half Ghanian as well, my father. So I got two strong cultures that, you know, that make, you know, who I am, which is very interesting and amazing at the same time.

Within the past five years, I was able to jump into the Carnival Caribana space of Toronto Carnival and it's been amazing to see the behind the scenes of how things work. I've been, I've been a model once, never again. I'll never do that. That's just not for me. Yeah. So I was just, you know, been behind the scenes and understanding the branding and storytelling and marketing of certain bands within Toronto.

Hema: When I talk about Carnival and Trinidad, oftentimes people don't realize that there is a Carnival season. Almost all of the Caribbean islands, Caribbean countries have a version of Carnival, right?

David: Right, right. So… 

Hema: I want to talk to you about the origins of Carnival on this podcast, The Moreish Podcast, we talk about the history of the people of the Caribbean and how that influences current day culture. And Carnival for a lot of people or Caribana.. do you call Toronto Carnival Caribana or what do you call it?

David: Oh, forever. Yeah. Okay. That's all I know. Caribana. 

Hema: Same. It's always Caribana to me. A lot of people sort of see it as a party, a fete, a time to go out and like wear costumes and hang out. But there's so much more behind it. Right? So can you maybe talk about what the origins of Carnival is?

David: Yeah, there's, um, it's extremely deeply webbed. And from the knowledge that we know is that these are, this is not something new. It's been going on 200 plus years. And these traditions mainly come from West Africa. And so what I've been looking at too is even Egypt. So just the style of a procession and giving back to something and praising something or worshiping something in a community manner of just walking around in a parade and listening to music and playing drums and, you know, dancing, movement, it all started from the motherland.

And so, when the Transatlantic Slave movement happened, those traditions still came along. And within, like, specifically for Trinidad, what happened was, within the early 1700s, there was the Cedula population, which were aristocrats from people from Martinique, Dominica, Guadaloupe, all came down to Trinidad.

So obviously, though, at that time, those islands were French colonized. And what they did when they came to Trinidad, they brought their own masquerading balls that they would have specifically the two days before Ash Wednesday. So for them, it was their Carnival was removing of the flesh. So they would party and do all these wild things.

And you know, that, that was theirs. But at the time our African people that were captured, I would like to say, not really slaves, did not have that access to be a part of it. So they would watch and observe and be like, okay, this is what they're doing. We were doing this back home in our own way. And it just became like this marriage of two cultures of taking from what the French did and what the Africans had. And then you just slowly started to see them do their own thing. And Carnival always had, um, a backlash or a rebel, because again, it was a communal thing. It brought people together. It brought their culture back together. And it's like, no, we can't have that. So there's always been a fight, fight, fight, a fight.

And that's where you have like old mas where it's like always bringing up politics and what's happening in society. So there was always a, in the music, you would hear it. There's always a chant of back and forth of them explaining what's happening, you know, and then slowly be getting to like Kaiso, and Extempo, and Calypso, and these are where these stories are being told.

So it's like, I could go for days. There's, there's so much that make this, this whole engine turn. 

And a specific part of that was in 1888, it was the Canboulay riots. And obviously the, the, the Africans that were captured worked on these cane fields and they were fed up and just couldn't take it anymore that Carnival was being suppressed. So they burned down the whole fields, and that's where you have the molasses, the wearing of the black, the Jab Jab, mimicking these people that once enslaved us. So there's a lot of satire to Carnival in that essence of we took what they gave us and we made it our own, you know, and we were still respecting what we did back home as well. So there's a lot of layers, a lot of webs to make it happen. And you know, music, food, it all comes together, like in the culture itself. So.

Hema: Yeah, there's, there's so many layers and you talked about, you know, the enslavers, the colonizers first having their version of Carnival. And then the African enslaved people really taking over and making it something meaningful, more than just a party. 

David: Right. 

Hema: And what we see today is Carnival stems from the enslaved people telling their stories, connecting as a community.

Carnival is more than just the one day parade, right? 

David: Right. 

Hema: There's many different aspects of Carnival from the costumes and the music, uh, J'Ouvert. Do you want to maybe talk about some of the different aspects of Carnival and what encompasses it as a whole?

David: Yeah, so originally, um, today we see what we call a Pretty Mas which is the whole costumes, but the real deal of Carnival really stems from J'Ouvert and that was the, the representation of the Canboulay riots of the morning of is when they burned down all the fields, all the cane fields, and that's where you have like the different characters that come out of it, so like, you know, in Grenada, a Jab may look different. In Trinidad, there's different types of Jabs. There's the Blue Jab, you know, there's the Indian Jab that they call that whips and lashes. There's, there's several different characters that are used, or it's like almost like a folklore, but were used to tell that story, which is, to me, is just beautiful, you know, and then like, when you go to Bahamas and Jamaica, they represent the Junkanoo.

That's another aspect, which is celebrated around Christmas. New Year's. So it's like, again, with within all the islands, the Windwards, Antilles, it's like it's all happening at once. And J'Ouvert is really the premise of Carnival that Monday. And originally it was, um, it was their date that they did, it was around emancipation, which was 18, 1834, when the British basically broke out of their colonizing Caribbean islands.

And if you look at Caribana Toronto, it falls on the first weekend of August. Which is similar to emancipation in Toronto, as well as in Trinidad, they did the same date. Um, John Simcoe, I believe, was a part of that. 

So it's, it's, it really stems from, to answer your question, I guess, it's, it's that rebellion, that freedom amongst that day, you know, and that's, that's what, that's what really Carnival comes from that, that ending of oppression and you know and then later on that's when we got into the costumes and that's like day two. The date they wanted the emancipation date but the French kind of said no you're gonna have it two days before Ash Wednesday and that's where it falls in Trinidad.

Hema: And it all goes back to and can be traced back to the Transatlantic Slave Trade and the people that were forcibly taken to different places.

You talked about the storytelling and you talked about, you know, politics and the meaning behind it. Every year, costumes are different, music is different, and does that represent then what's going on politically, what's going on culturally in each society in each country?

David: I think, I think now it's changed, to be honest. Like when I look back and hear certain songs in the fifties, the sixties, the seventies. It was more based on what's happening around the world, like, you know, especially with, um, post World War II, if you listen to a lot of Calypso, they took arrangements from American jazz, you know, and then you had like the influence of Harry Belafonte, like he, he put on, he basically, they say he put Calypso on the world stage.

So it's hard to say, um, where, like what's happening now. I believe in the music, you know, you're not really hearing the political struggle or what's happening in the country. Some artists do it and you'll get that in like Kaiso, Extempo but it's not mainstream as it was back then. So you heard it more as Calypso is emerging. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit different now. 

Hema: It seems to have taken a little bit of a stray away from, the satire and the, the political avenues and, and maybe be just a little bit more about entertainment these days. 

David: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 

Hema: Now you talked you've mentioned a few different types of music, and I think that's really important because there are many types of music, you know, people sort of associate Carnival and Soca but there's more than that.

Do you want to maybe talk about some of the different types of music in the background and where they come from? 

David: This is amazing. You brought this up because I've just been on this whole Bouyon binge and they say some people say like different sub genre genres of Soca have their time but for me, it's been I was able to go to Saint Lucia last year first time for Carnival and just hearing the music the Creole French side of Soca is just like a different world for me.

So, you have the Bouyon you have Dennery, you have blends of Zouk, you have, and I've been studying this for a while. Um, like specifically, specifically in Dominica. They studied Cadence, which was merged from Calypso in Trinidad, and they took some African influence of a genre called Jing Ping, and that's where you have like the certain beat that Bouyon represents in Dominica that it's like, it's unmatched and it's very popular right now.

And for me, it's one of the best things. And when you look at, I feel like it's almost like every island took from every island. When I'm, when I'm understanding that when it comes to the music that you're hearing, because there's a one big fusion, like there was a time where Raga was big, uh, early nineties into early two thousands, you had like Bunji was fusing soca with reggae and a bit of dancehall and you're seeing it happen everywhere.

So, um, me personally, I go for the Bouyon and the Jab. I like the faster BPM, that's coming from Grenada. And it's just interesting to see how, yeah, like Trinidad's, to be honest, personally, Trinidad's Soca right now is just too, like, there's a lot of groovy, slow, slow, slow. I'm not into that. So to hear the other islands and to see them now.   Small islands is what they would call them is to like be on the world stage is a beautiful thing and the fusion happen amongst the islands and working with Africa as well because you're hearing the afro beats now in the music. You're hearing the, um, amba piano. It's just one big pot of pelau That's the way I look at it. 

Hema: Yeah, absolutely. It's, there's so much to know about Carnival beyond just what we see here or what the average person knows. You just touched on a little bit of it and I think it just requires so much more intentional research if somebody is really interested in what the backstory is right of Carnival, what the significance is.

Do you have any suggestions for somebody who might be interested in learning more? Where can they maybe start researching or digging into some of this information? 

David: I think honestly, if you have the opportunity to like our, our parents, our mothers, our fathers, people that have been in the industry for a while, it's like, if you could reach out to them and, you know, just, just ask questions, I think there's, there is stuff online, but I feel like the stories, hearing it from actual people, which you can find in a Mas Camp or somebody from Toronto Carnival.

Just literally reaching out to see who's, who's, it could be a band leader in Trinidad and Tribe. I feel like if you're, if you're around and just in the right circle, asking these people, these questions are like, how did this start? Or, you know, there's even podcasts that like, In We Blood look at the whole relationship that we have here.

What you guys are doing at Moreish is amazing for people to, to understand these things. And online is cool, like, to, to read. But I feel like the personal stories. I was just watching an interview the other day and, this I forgot her name, but this lady was just breaking down, like, the whole patois in Trinidad. And how it's a lost language. And how she's one of the few people in the country that speak it. You know, so just understanding that side and I know my mom could speak a few words, but you know, I think, I think again, that storytelling of talking to somebody that is immersed is the best thing you could get out of it. 

Hema: I agree. In doing the research for this podcast and trying to dig into the history of a lot of these Caribbean islands and the people, much of what's written and what's available out there is from the perspective of the enslavers and the colonizers.

David: Right. 

Hema: Right. And I think what you're saying is so true is really getting the true stories, the real feeling for what's going on on the ground is to talk to people. And, you know, part of me is worried that if we don't start to document the stories that our elders have to tell us it's going to be lost forever.

Um, and I say, I think it's really important to get those stories from people, to carry it forward, to really represent the culture. 

David: Definitely. Definitely. 

Hema: You have a little bit of, a history with Toronto Caribana right? With Crown Mas is that correct? 

David: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Crown Mas yes, shout out to Deon, Casey, Calvin, yes, uh, big three over there.

I've been with the team for a while now, and the good, what I like about Crown Mas is, they're really, I want to say, being extremely innovative when it comes to, breaking or changing or opening the envelope, just, just breaking barriers and taking risks, which I like.

And I feel like, you know, as artists and being creative, it's it's something that you have to do. It's something that we have to do to push the culture forward, or else it's just going to be the same. The main designer, Casey, has just been amazing at doing that, you know, and making it look cool.

And every year it's just getting better and better and better. So we're just, as a crew, we're very happy to see that. And, it's been, it's been cool to see, like, really behind the scenes of how things work, budgets and, you know, marketing and planning and events and photo shoots.

So. It's very, it's not easy. It's not, people think like, yeah, okay we just come out Saturday and jump up on the road. Like there's a lot of moving parts, that have to be respected. And it's, it's an art craft at the end of the day. And it's, it's, it's, it just makes me understand that these, these costumes, this work of art have to live somewhere like it can't just be like that one day.

There has to be something more tangible that, you know, Canadians can see or get or touch and feel and see what's going on. So… 

Hema: There's so much work that goes into creating of the costumes and it's not just actually, you know, as you said, putting together a costume and like that one day jumping up on the road. There's so much intentionality and storytelling and creativity that goes on behind the scenes. 

And I think people sometimes forget that anybody that's intimately involved with, whether it's Caribana or Carnival, this is something that they're thinking about all year long, right? It's not just like, let me just, you know, throw on a costume and put some feathers on and, and that's that.

David: Yes.

Hema: Now, I'm going to take a little, a little departure because, there's some criticism I've heard from some people about the skimpiness of costumes. And I want to talk about that because it really does offend some people and some people feel like it's not a big deal and it's, it is what it is.

David: It's it's definitely heavily layered. We could go back in time and um, the French used to call, uh, in Trinidad, they would use the word, Jamette. Some artists still use it in their songs nowadays as, like, the woman with, that's curves and has, you know, body parts looking a certain way. They were chastised and you're a Jamette, you're a Jamette, you're this, that, whatever the third. And that name became a community, so to speak. So it was like the Jamette people, which moved to Laventille, Barataria, and that side of Trinidad, were the ones that created Steelpan, Mas, J'Ouvert all these things came out of that Jamette community.

So it's like, again, for a woman, it's that form of expression. It's if you're comfortable in being the way that, that, that you express yourself, then so be it, as long as it's respected by men and not abusing that power or doing the most. So it has changed. It will evolve. There's sometimes like there's nothing we could do, but  again, if a woman wants to express her way in that way and people can leave her alone and do what you got to do, then that's a beautiful thing. I feel like, so, and again, it all comes from what was happening back then. You know, not being able to be ourselves and not be able to express ourselves. 

So it's going to evolve. It's going to change. And, you know, costumes back in the day did not look like what it looks like now. And that, you know, that happens as society does this thing, but, there's thankfully that there's, there's still costumes and bands. that represent the old days. You have the sailor band that's still around.

You know, some people would be like, Oh, it's too old, old fashioned, but elements of old mas traditional mas is still around. And the costumes are just a new part that joined in around fifties, forties, fifties. So it's still kind of new, I guess, but you know, um, Yeah, it's, it's, it is a topic.

Hema: It is, it is a topic. And I know a lot of people, maybe more so in North America, hypersexualize the women because of the costumes or because of the way people dance. And I think that if you don't understand what's going on and what Carnival is about, that's, that's really misunderstood.

Because that's not why the costumes are there. You know, I think you said it really clearly is if a woman feels comfortable in expressing herself in a specific way, then that's it. That's fine. It, it, it doesn't have any invitation for anybody else to react to her in a specific way. 

David: Right. I agree. And, 

Hema: Having been, I've only been to Trinidad Carnival once. But I would say the feeling there is much more of a community than I find here in Caribana as it stands today. And 

David: Oh yeah.

Hema: And it doesn't feel the same to me these days. Why do you, do you have any thoughts on that?

David: Just think sometimes it could be just we're getting older. Like, it could be that, to be honest, or it's just, with as society, as we progress, these, these stories and the understandings have to be passed down or else we're going to lose it. So I think we're just at a time. You have social media, social media plays a major part on choosing or shifting how people think and how do they view things.

So, we got to battle against social media to be like, no, this is what the program is. This is what you're supposed to do. Can't just hop fences and run around. It has to be respected. 

 It's just, I've come to the understanding that this is what it is in Toronto. And there's only so much you could do, really. And it's just, it's just culture. It's different everywhere. Mas is are different everywhere. 

Apparently in St. Vincent, it's illegal to even storm the band, you will get arrested. I could be wrong, but somebody, I, I read it in a group, so I don't know if the person was boasting or boosting. But again, we have extraction teams and they pull people out and it's, it's, it's, it's highly respected over there. And, you know, hopefully it can happen here one day, but it's, it's definitely changed. 

Hema: Part of me just sort of feels like it's, the, the knocking down of the fences and the storming the parade route is a bit disrespectful to all of the work and all of the thought that's gone behind the Carnival and the parade and the songs and bringing people together.

David: Yeah, no, it's, it's, again, and it's social media that changes how Carnival looks like the other day I posted on Instagram. They don't do fetes like this anymore. I used to come out of a fete sweating, drenched, powdered, you know, like, again, everything is pretty, everything looks good, you know, nobody wants to be on the road anymore, like, you know.

Hema: You in, in the bio that you sent to me, I picked out a little line which is, Carnival being crucial in society. 

David: It's one of those ones where you really have to experience it to, to understand why I said that. 

It's just this high that you get from just being. There, I don't know. I can't, I can't explain it. It's, it's just this feeling that you get. It's like this adrenaline that you get and it's something that uplifts us. And it's something that we look forward to.

Even just looking forward to it. It's just a good feeling knowing that God spare life in February, I'm going back again. It's needed because for people that have been oppressed, specifically Black and Indian, within the West Indies, it's, it's, that form of expression that we need to keep us going and keep us alive.

I was reading the other day, you have Michelangelo, you know, that's European art. What's our art? It should be on the same level, it should be appreciated the same, and we need to keep pushing that and keep pushing that for years and years, so there's no art shaming, this is ours, let's push it. 

Hema: Absolutely. There's so much history behind it, and the storytelling continues. 

So I want to ask you what really led to your wanting to do more of a deep dive into Trinidad Carnival, Caribana in Toronto and learning more about it.

David: Yeah, so the way as a kid, it all started with my mom just making me watch VHS videos of 1989 steelpan Desperados in Trinidad. And then I remember as a kid, I have a picture of it, but um, she brought me to the grandstands at Princes’ Gates and I would watch and I used to be scared of the Moko Jumbies as a kid as they would come for Caribana. So I would see that and then boom, go to Trinidad, see everybody talking, rave about Carnival. And at the time I couldn't go because I was in school. And then I graduated and I was able to go 2015 was my first Trinidad Carnival.

And then from there, I'm like, yeah, I'm sold. It's, it's different. My first Caribana I was in grade 11, grade 11. So people would think I was always here for Caribana. No, that was my first experience. And I'm like, okay, this is cool. But Trinidad for me, sealed the deal. Just seeing the whole orchestration of how things work, the organization, the events leading up, Steel Pan, Stick Fighting, Calypso, semi finals, the watching the parade of, the Jab Jabs, the Midnight Robbers, all the characters coming into life and just seeing it happen all there for me was that was that was it.

And that's the thing about Trinidad. You have the whole ecosystem. Everybody's involved and all the different events leading up to that, that those two days. It's amazing. 

Hema: And it's a whole season, right? People are primed and pumped and ready for Carnival. They buy their costumes so far in advance. They get involved with a particular mas band so far in advance. 

David: Yeah, definitely. It's a whole, it's an ecosystem down to the cleaners, like down to the DJs. Everybody's somehow involved. 

Hema: You talked earlier about every country, Caribbean country, kind of having a little bit of a nuance for themselves. And, and learning from each other. You've been to Trinidad Carnival and St. Lucia? 

David: St. Lucia. Yeah. St. Lucia, Miami, Toronto. Yeah, I don't claim myself as a Carnival chaser. It's just wherever I end up, I end up. I like fast soca. So that's, I know when I go to those islands, I'm getting it. Trinidad sometimes a bit too slow for me, but yeah, a lot of groovy. 

Hema: A lot of people that, that would probably be listening, don't understand the difference between fast and groovy. 

David: Yeah. 

Hema: Can you give it in a nutshell what that is?

David: Groovy is a slower tempo, basically coming from more of the Calypso side. And, you know, Soca now is mixing of, the African drumming with Indian processions and fusing that together to make more of a faster tempo that you got. In the seventies, eighties, nineties, Blackman, he basically came up with that term, which is Nailah's grandfather to coin what Soca is. 

And, and Soca is just, is there's so many cadences. There's so many different styles of, of beats and that's where you break into, Zouk kind of has its own range, but like I was saying before, you have the Bouyon you have Dennery, which is coming from Saint Lucia, you have the Jab Jab from Grenada, that style, that drumming.

And again, all relates back to Africa. Um, of that, those styles of what they were doing. So it's, it's interesting to see where everybody is now and how every island is taking from every other islands and to see Trinidad and Haiti work together, we're producers. Like it's amazing. You know, Barbados has a bashment style that's more like, you know, Jamaican reggae views.

Like, so it was just one, again, one big pot. 

Hema: Let's talk about the origins of Calypso because it is also a part of Carnival. It's part of, very big part of Trinidadian culture. What are the origins and where does that come from? 

David: So Calypso you have mainly, you had back, talking way back when it started with Kaiso and Extempo and it was again that political voice that came out and satire talking about how things are going.

You have guys like Lord Kitchener, Sparrow that will talk about lady problems and lady issues. Just very funny, sometimes even hypersexual, but it's like, you have to catch it. It's not just, you're not going to say something out loud, but nuances of, of of relationships, of life, of what's going on.

And, you know, Calypso was that, that, um, that way of telling these stories. And then as you get into the 40s, post war, that's when things change and more of American influence happened because the Americans had their base in Trinidad and you know, the sailors, they brought their music in and their, their brass instruments.

And that's when you see Calypso now taking the brass and have that American feel to it, jazzy feel to it instead of just the drumming. And, and it was, it was fused with their rhythm section and how they would use the tack back and the cowbell and all these things mixed in with horns. And it was just, it just became this one fusion of everything to make what Calypso is.

And it's, it's still respected today and forever will be, you know, they have Calypso Monarch. I've been to Calypso semifinals many times, and it was just vibes. So, Calypso is the heartbeat of Soca. Without Calypso, there's no Soca. And then, you know, later on in the 70s, 80s, that's where you saw the branch off and, you know, Machel was able to take it to the world. And, they're both beautiful genres, and my favourite Calypso artist is SuperBlue, and um, yeah. 

Hema: Carnival in itself, as we talked about, really has its origins in the times of slavery, and really a lot of African traditions, the enslaved people who brought this in. Specifically in Trinidad, now, this is not Carnival in all of the Caribbean islands, but specifically in Trinidad, there is a big Indo-Caribbean population that has integrated into this. And how, do you want to explain how that works and maybe how that integrates into the Carnival that we see today? 

David: Yeah, first off, I am, I am Chutney Rastaman. That's what I would call myself. I love, I love a chutney. I love, my mother is, is half Indian. So it's like, I've been immersed in that as well. And to see that fusion alone come together because you have Chutney and then you have Chutney Soca which is like another branch that, you know, we even forget about that, which I feel needs to be played more. We don't really hear it too much. 

Um, but Drupatee I was going to wear my Drupatee shirt. Yeah, you have these artists that like have brought the Indo style, some even speak Hindi, it's just to see that whole other world is it's there, you know, which I feel, again, it needs to be pushed more.

We need to see it more and more mainstream, but to see that marriage happen is amazing, you know, being the two strongest cultures in the country, the African and Indian come together and make a genre of music is one of the best things you could, you could have. And then, you know, with the music and you have the food and then you have the events, the parties, the styles of dancing is different. The drumming, the tassa, all that coming all into one is Trinidad and Tobago. 

Hema: Tassa is like, listen, that speaks to my heart. 

David: If I ever get married. It will be at my wedding. So it's just beautiful to see. That marriage happened between the two cultures and make beautiful music out of it. 

Hema: I think Carnival in Trinidad, and again, I'm speaking specifically about Trinidad right now, and even though Carnival exists all over the Caribbean, to see the people come together and the cultures come together and mash up into this one really strong cultural event, is really, is really beautiful.

And I think it's really important to remember that there is so much meaning and significance behind, behind the party. I don't want us to lose those stories and the understanding and the meaning behind it, which is why I wanted to have this conversation with you today to lend a little bit of context to the party that we see in Toronto, the party that we see on TV, in social media, because it's more than just a fete and a good time. And yes, there's a lot of music and beautiful costumes and people and food, but let's not lose why it came about in the first place. 

David: Definitely. Yeah. 

Hema: If people want to know more about what you're working on and get a little peek into the work that you're doing, where can they connect with you? 

David: Yeah, my Instagram is at thedavidsb The main marketing agency that I run is foundmissing.co. We focus on experiential marketing, consulting, strategy, branding, design, you name it, event planning, all that stuff. That's us. 

Hema: Thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with me. I really appreciate you sharing all of your knowledge, everything that you've learned.

David: Yes, for sure. And thank you for giving me the platform to talk and yeah, it's been, it's been good. This is amazing. 

Hema: Excellent. Thanks, David. 

David: Thank you so much.

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