Caribbean Folklore: The Lady and Her Three Sons - A Grenadian Folktale with Kesha Christie

A Folktale from Grenada with Kesha Christie 

Welcome to Season 3 of The Moreish Podcast! We kick off with Toronto-based storyteller and podcaster Kesha Christie’s rendition of a humorous Grenadian folktale, 'The Lady and Her Three Sons,' which highlights the Caribbean tradition of descriptive nicknames. 

Hema and Kesha chat about the cultural significance of nicknames, superstitions, and community spirit within the Caribbean diaspora, and they share their thoughts on why these stories and traditions are essential to preserving their heritage.

Through the conversation, we get a bonus tale as Kesha also shares a personal story about discovering her mother's nickname.

Listen in for an engaging folktale from Grenada told by Kesha Christie, and a lively discussion about Caribbean stories.

Connect with Kesha Christie

Website
Instagram
TikTok
Walk Good Podcast
Watch her TEDx Talk: Learning through the wisdom of folktales

Listen to more Caribbean folklore episodes:
Exploring Caribbean Folklore with Kesha Christie
Trickster Tales
Anansi's Antics in Antigua & Barbuda
The Power of Pataki Stories in Cuba
A Lizard's Lesson
Making a Deal with Death

Transcript

[music]

Hema: Hi, it's Hema host of The Moreish Podcast. Thank you for joining me for season three. I took a little break over the summer and we're back now with all new episodes, starting with a folk tale told by Kesha Christie. If you joined us for season two, you are already familiar with Kesha, a Toronto-area storyteller and podcaster. I'm gonna leave some links in the show notes so you can connect with her.  

This season there is an incredible lineup of guests, and we're gonna tap into their knowledge and expertise to continue the conversation about Caribbean history, culture, and cuisine.  

Before we dive into today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe and rate the podcast, follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, and share the episodes with anyone you think might enjoy Caribbean stories told by people from the Caribbean. 

Enjoy the episode. 

[music]

Hema: Hello Kesha. Welcome back to The Moreish Podcast.

Kesha: Hi Hema, good to be here.

Hema: We have done a handful of these folklore folk tale stories from the Caribbean and they have been so interesting. I've gotten a lot of great feedback. People are really enjoying these, so thank you for sharing your knowledge of folklore in the Caribbean.

I really appreciate that.

Kesha: You're welcome. I love doing it.

Hema: Let's give everybody, they've met you already if they've listened to some podcast episodes, but let's tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Kesha: Alright. My name is Kesha Christie. I am a TEDx speaker, storyteller and coach. So I wanna help everyone to own their story, amplify their voice, and really just share how they impact the world.

Hema: Kesha also has a podcast. Tell us about that.

Kesha: Yes. So my podcast is called Walk Good African and Caribbean Folktales and Other Stories, where we share legends, um, folktales as well as some other stories that are very interesting.

Hema: We had decided, we're gonna decide together what country's folklore we're gonna tackle in each episode. But the last couple of episodes I've let you choose without me knowing anything. 

Kesha: So on my podcast I travel around the Caribbean mostly and I share the different folktales. And so when we decided we were gonna do this, I was super excited and preface, you did give me a list to work from, but this week we're gonna stopping in Grenada. 

Now Grenada is the Isle of Spice, and there are certain folktales that they are most known for. Grenada is known for its nutmeg. So there are a lot of stories around that, but of course I wanted to dig a little bit deeper because in our journey and me looking for folktales, I usually find stories that always have a version.

So the different islands might have a similar story, but they have different versions and I wanted to find something that was mostly or authentically a Grenadian story. 

So I had to dig deep, and this story that I settled on is a funny one, but it kind of goes with some of the things that we do in the Caribbean. Like we give people nicknames, but the nicknames are obvious. You know what I mean? So this story is one of those. This story is called The Lady and Her Three Sons. 

There was a time when there was a poor woman who lived in a village with her three sons. It was a small village, so everyone knew each other. Her husband had died, so she would have to go and take care of the, the cane fields and do all the work and support the family. And so everyone knew who she was and they knew the work that she did. And the thing is, her three sons were young, strapping, good looking children, but they had the weirdest names. No one complained, but they knew there would be a problem at some point. 

So the smallest one, the youngest boy, his name was Big Eye. He had big eyes, hence his name. Then the middle son was named Thin Foot, so you can imagine what he had. And the oldest was called Broad Mouth, and well, I could tell you what that means. 

So anyways, everyone lived in the village, they lived happily together. But one morning she wanted to make breakfast for her children before she headed out. And so she decided to send Big Eye to the market to pick up some 1 cent bun and saltfish. So, Big Eye did what he was told, went to the junction, went to the shop, and asked the shopkeeper for a 1 cent bun and saltfish, but when he saw the saltfish, the saltfish was so small. He said, no, no, I can't take this. This is too small. Well, everybody in the shop turned around and took a look and they realized who it was and when they realized what he was asking for, they all began to laugh. Well, they call him Big Eye, so now we know why they call him Big Eye. 

Everybody was laughing and Big Eye got so mad, he said, I'm not leaving until you gimme a bigger piece of saltfish. So he stood and waited. 

Now time was going, and so the mother decided she was going to send Thin Foot to go and get Big Eye. So Thin Foot went to the shop, and when Thin Foot reached the shop and found out what was happening, and everybody was laughing, Thin Foot got mad and Thin Foot said, this is not right, and we're not leaving until we get the big piece of saltfish.

And he stamped his foot so hard that it went straight to the floor, and no matter how he wiggled his foot, left, right up, down, it wouldn't come out. And now everybody started to laugh even more. And he was mad. 

Well, time was still going, and the mother wanted to know what was going on. So she sent the oldest. She said, you need to go and bring back your brothers. So Broad Mouth went down the road to the junction, to the shop, and saw what was happening. When Broad Mouth saw what was happening and learned the story, Broad Mouth started to laugh and laugh so hard and throw his head back so much that his mouth split even more. Oh my goodness,  everybody was laughing. 

By this time the lady was so upset. She sent all three of her sons to the shop. Nobody's come back and she have to leave to go to the cane field. So she went to the junction, into the shop, ready to find out what was going on, and everybody was in there laughing. Some of the people couldn't catch their breath to tell her the story. 

So she waited until some gentle person came and explained to her, you sent Big Eye who got small saltfish and wanted more. Then you sent Thin Foot who stamped his foot into the floor and girl, then you send Broad Mouth and Broad Mouth came and started to laugh and mouth split and it's more broad. Girl, they laugh. Everybody was laughing. 

But seriously, time was running away and she still needed to go to the cane field. So the people in the shop patted her gently and said, I tell you what, we're gonna help you with the breakfast for the boys. You go and do your work, but promise us one thing, just one little thing. Promise you're not gonna give those boys a proper name. And with that crick crack monkey break yuh back on a ham sack.

Hema: When you opened this story and you said nicknames, I was waiting to see what nicknames would come up because this is the kind of nickname you hear all the time. Very obvious, very descriptive. 

Kesha: Yes.

Hema: And, and of course there are the nicknames, um, across Caribbean where it sounds like a proper name, but it's actually not the person's proper name

Kesha: Oh yeah. 

Hema: and it's not until they, they pass away or they're sick or something happens that you learn what their government name is, but that's not this.

Kesha: That's another story.

Hema: Did you ever have a nickname growing up?

Kesha: Not really. I was very, and I was sad about that. Like, I mean, when I was younger, everyone was like, oh, sweetie. And I was like, oh, that must've been because I was cute. But my mom has one of those names that's not her right name. And so it took me a, took me a number of years to figure out who they were calling. Um, they would call Barbara. And I was like, who's Barbara? And so one day my cousin thought it was very funny, she wanted to enlighten me. She's like, don't you know that Barbara's your mother? So I thought it was one of her names. So I'm looking at her government ID and I'm like, there's a mistake. There's, there's no Barbara here. And she is laughing. So it took a while to figure out how it all works together, and I've got a really funny story about how it came together.

Hema: Do you wanna share that story?

Kesha: Of course I could share the story. Well, this is a story called Right Name Now, when I was growing up, everybody called Barbara. Barbara this Barbara that. If they needed something, Barbara if they wanted order, Barbara, and she was a very important person in my family. But I didn't know who she was. 

Every time they called Barbara and I looked, I didn't see anybody new. I knew everyone's name in the room. So finally one day, my cousin and her little red skin decided that she was gonna tell me who Barbara was. And she said, don't you know that Barbara is your mother? She laughed and laughed and laughed until her pale skin turned red, and I felt very embarrassed. But knowing that, I decided that I was gonna figure out which name, was my mother's Barb, where did Barbara fit. So now that I knew who Barbara was, I needed to know why. 

So my mother was a little bit of a, well she wasn't a hoarder, but she kept things for a very long time. So we would go through these things every so often, and we were blessed to be going through her stuff that had her old driver's license and things like that.

So, of course I'm laughing at the old time pictures, but I took note of her government name and it did not include Barbara. So I said, um, they left out a name here. And my mother said, oh no, they didn't leave out a name. So, um, what name is this? And she said, that's my Christian name. Your what what name? Okay. Well now I learned that there is a Christian name. Okay. So that was the name that I knew my mother as all this time. Now we are not saying the name 'cause we wanna you know, protect the innocent. So I went through life knowing that my mother's name was Barbara, but not knowing how. So we went far and we went wide and we started to meet other family members.

And my favourite auntie, one of my favourite aunties, her name is Babs. And I was like, Auntie Babs, gosh, love you like cook food. But then I started to realize one day with the the art, innovation, and technology of Facebook, that her name was not Babs at all. And I said, how come everybody has all of these names? So I took note of her name and one day I said, you know, Auntie Babs, how come everybody else has these names and I don't seem to have one. She laughed. My child, you never get one. I was so sad. I felt like it had left something out, but then I learned, I was born in Canada. My house was Jamaica. But having one of those nicknames, one of those real nicknames, seemed to be a note that you get only when you're on the island.

Hema:  It is so true. I wish, I wish I had a nickname, but again, I was born and raised in Canada and I didn't get one of those. Let me ask you about nicknames because I've heard a few different reasons for this, and one of them is you don't call anybody by their real name because you don't want the spirits to be able to find them or something. 

Kesha: Yes, the reason why they have these names is because you don't want the Duppy to be able to call you and know you, right? So all of these names were given. Now we have the two types of nicknames, the descriptive ones that will tell you, you know exactly who you are, and then we have like Babs and Barbara, so that if the Duppy call out, they don't actually know your right name.

And it's kind of ties in with the whole walking in the house backwards after a certain time, you know?

Hema: Let's go back to the, the story you told. Big Eye, Broad Mouth. To some people, these would be kind of insulting, but they're not really. Let's talk about that.

Kesha: Yes. So now, in this time, where we're really sensitive about how we show up in the world and how others see us. Whereas in those times you were what you were, you look like how you look like, and if you wanna be told. Is that the...I’m treading lightly here because people called you what you were. If you were tall, they would call you a tall man, right? They wouldn't call a tall man shorty unless there was a reason for it. Um, the friends who know you really well would give you a nickname for some incident that took place. So there is things that you never live down because they live on in your name. And the names were never meant to be derogatory. They were meant to be endearing that we know you, we see you, and this is how, you know, we're gonna make sure that the world knows about you as well. But now that we're a little more sensitive on how we show up and how we feel, 'cause sometimes people give us names that we don't wanna carry. And while you think it's endearing, it was never endearing for me. We're now having those conversations which make these names more, um, hidden where people might say it behind your back, or you might only hear it in family gatherings, but not on the road. And then you make sure that you correct the folks who still use it so that you're, you're, you either have the name, you want them to use your right name, especially, you know, if you're famous now. Right.

Hema: Yeah. You know, it is, it is a thing in the Caribbean culture that is such nuanced in, and even though some of these nicknames sound like they could be meant maliciously, they're not. And you don't get a nickname unless somebody likes you.

Kesha: Yes, unless there's some form of love or um, there's gotta be some kind of love. Someone cares to give you that particular nickname, but I think the fact that no one really believes in Duppy anymore, to the way that they used to back in the days, it's easy to say, nope, I don't, I don't, want that anymore. It was a sign of protection, and a sign of love, a sign of protection, a sign of a way of helping to instill some of our old traditions, right? Because we're having the conversation about nickname, but now we've also dipped into a little bit of our superstition, so you see how the conversation unfolds.

Hema: Yes, and, and they're all intertwined, right? It, you can't really piece meal and say nicknames is one thing, superstition is another thing. They're all intermingled as a part of the culture.

Kesha: Yes,

Hema: Uh, you said that people don't really believe in Duppy anymore. It must be my age, but I still in the back of my mind always have these stories in folktales lingering back there. I'm one of them that still believes.

Kesha: Good news. Well, that's why I continue to tell the story so that we don't forget. I mean, at midnight I don't, I walk in backwards like I'm not taking the chance. Maybe it might not be true, but I'm not gonna find out. I'm not gonna be the one who finds out.

Hema: I don’t know, in Jamaica… in Trinidad people do this. You never hand somebody pepper. A bottle of pepper. You have to place it down and then they have to pick it up. Jamaicans do the same?

Kesha: Not necessarily. I found out about that through a Trini friend. So I have a friend absolutely love her, and she made the best pepper. So I was like, make me a bottle, make me a bottle. So she did, and she's like, okay, this is for you. And I had my hand out and she put it on the counter and I was very confused at the moment. And she's like, yeah, you can't, unless you want me and you to fall out, I can't give you the pepper like that. 

So I got it. I took it home and I was like, mom, you know, so-and-so gave me the peppa, we're ready to eat, right? And she's like, oh, yes, I like her pepper. And my mom put her hand on the counter, so we didn't have an actual conversation about it, but she put her hand on the counter and I put the bottle on the counter. Then my mom picked it up and I was like. I feel like my mom knew this, but never said anything, and I find a lot of the times these, um, beliefs are just kind of passed down, but if the generation doesn't speak it to the next generation, they don't know.

So I do believe that there is this belief in Jamaican culture. My mother never told me. She acted it, but never told me.

Hema: It's, it's one of those things that, again, nuanced. So it goes on in everyday life. It's just a part of the thing that happens. And if you don't know, like you and I grew up here in Canada, you have to inquire to find out why these things are going on.

Kesha: Exactly. Exactly. And that's why these conversations are so important because there's a huge generation, generations that grew up in the diaspora and a lot of the learning is through that osmosis effect. So we need to have these conversations so that we learn, so that we remember, and we keep the spirit of our, uh, ancestors and our heritage alive.

Hema: Yes, it is, to some people, these little things may be silly, they might be nonsensical, but I think it's a part of the culture that I want to stay alive. I really enjoy it and it sparks conversations like these, like what we're talking about, the folk folklore, folktales. 

I want people to continue asking the questions and inquiring, and I don't want 10 years from now me going to try to hand somebody pepper sauce and having to explain it, and there's zero inkling in their mind of what I'm talking about.

Kesha: Yeah, yeah. I agree. Absolutely. That's why these, that's why this podcast is so important to be able to, you have these amazing conversations that bring up things that is like, oh my gosh. It's interesting to see how similar these beliefs are from island to island, and you know, we are truly one Caribbean.

Hema: You know, in that story that you told, there's, when you just said, we are one Caribbean, there is that community part of that story where the people said, you go to mom, you go to work, do your thing. We'll care for your boys. We'll make sure they get breakfast. That sense of community shows up in this story.

Kesha: Yes. We often talk about it takes a village. That's not a, that's not a European belief. That is, that's us. That is who we're, um, even growing up in Canada, there was a village. It was so and so, next door, so and so downstairs. If you lived in an apartment building or so and so across the street. The village mindset is still there. Now we just want our villages to be better. You know? We want to share our stories. We wanna share our beliefs, but the things that we, um, struggled with are the things that crippled our villages. We don't wanna hide those anymore. We wanna put those out in the open, clear it out, and show that we are that village that supports one another.

We're the village that when something goes wrong, we're coming together and we're speaking love on it. We're, we're, we're giving love to it so that it can heal and we grow as a community. And that's part of this journey.

Hema: It is so evident that extended family, that village, in the fact that we all have aunties and uncles who are not blood relatives. Right? And for a long time growing up, I didn't know these people weren't blood relatives because they were just family. 

Kesha: Very true, very true.

Hema: We, we have that embracing of people and even living abroad as we did growing up, that continues. And I think now, especially for those of us that don't live in the Caribbean, maybe are smaller, but they still exist.

Kesha: Yes.

Hema: I really enjoy these stories. I thank you so much for sharing this one today. You actually shared two tales, which I really enjoy, and I look forward to our next session to hear a little bit more about folktales, folklore in the Caribbean.

Kesha: Wonderful. I'll see you soon.

Hema: Bye.

[music]