8. The Next Generation of System Leaders with Lihi Rosenthal, Tu Carroz, and Olufemi Ogundele

Episode 8 Transcript: https://tinyurl.com/yk2d9jv3

In this episode of Equity Leadership Now! hosted by Jabari Mahiri, the focus shifts to part two of our series on Leadership Programs’ flagship offerings, Principal Leadership Institute (PLI) and Leaders For Equity And Democracy (LEAD).

LEAD is a rigorous three-year educational doctorate at the UC Berkeley School of Education, aimed at fostering equity and social justice in educational leadership. Dr. Mahiri spoke with the program’s director, Dr. Lihi Rosenthal, and two recent graduates, Dr. Tu Carroz, Assistant Superintendent of Education Services at Roseville Joint Union High School District, and Dr. Olufemi Ogundele, Associate Vice Chancellor for Enrollment and Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at UC Berkeley. The graduates shared their reflections on the LEAD program’s key concepts including the necessity of understanding educational systems to lead them effectively, the idea that leadership is an embodied practice, and the importance of intentionally designing systems for equity.

Dr. Rosenthal, Program Director of LEAD, outlined LEAD's distinctive approach, emphasizing its commitment to equity and social justice, which is embedded in its curriculum and pedagogical strategies. LEAD’s curriculum integrates real-world case studies and is co-taught by both scholars and practitioners to bridge the gap between theoretical knowledge and practical application. The program is designed to balance rigorous academic requirements with substantial support structures, including close advising and an intentional cohort model that promotes collaborative learning. These principles have guided the graduates' work and their research.

Dr. Tu Carroz, Assistant Superintendent of Education Services at Roseville Joint Union High School District Carroz's research delves into the intersection of risk and resilience for women of color in the role of school superintendents, highlighting a significant underrepresentation of these individuals in the field compared to their numbers within the broader K-12 educational workforce. Carroz's study examines three key areas: the career trajectories of women of color aspiring to superintendencies, the impact of racial and ethnic backgrounds on their experiences, and the skills and support necessary for their success. 

Dr. Olufemi Ogundele, Associate Vice Chancellor for Enrollment and Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at UC Berkeley.Ogundele emphasized LEAD’s robust support system and its impact on his pursuit of equitable admissions research. Dr. Olufemi also known as Femi has generated impactful change “in the literature now, there's been called the “Femi” effect, the idea that in all of the UCs, this was not happening in terms of this amazing, dramatic increase, and the things that you were doing since you got here facilitated that. And we were clear that the work that you did with your dissertation and turning that over into more intensive ways that you're going to engage in this trajectory that you're already on will be one of the benefits of this work,” Dr. Mahiri explained. This literature is highlighted in Zachary Bleemer’s “Affirmative action and its race-neutral alternatives
(link is external)” in the Journal of Public Economics. Dr. Ogundele’s dissertation examined

Equity Leadership Now! hosts conversations with equity-conscious leaders from pre-K through university settings who transform structures and strategies for educating students, particularly for those from historically marginalized communities.

Transcript

The Next Generation of System Leaders
with Lihi Rosenthal, Olufemi Ogundele, and Tu Carroz
Berkeley School of Education: Leadership Programs

Jabari Mahiri Host, Editor, and Producer
Brianna Luna Audio Editor and Production Specialist
Mayra Reyes External Relations and Production Specialist
Becca Minkoff Production Manager
Diana Garcia Communications Manager and External Relations
Audra Puchalski Communications Manager and Web Design
Jennifer Elemen Digitally Mediated Learning Coordinator
Jen Burke Graphic Designer
Robyn Ilten-Gee Editor and Media Consultant
Rian Whittle Sound Technician
Transcript
Brianna Luna 0:17
Equity Leadership Now! hosts conversations with equity-conscious leaders from Pre-K
through university settings, who transform structures and strategies for educating,
particularly for those who are marginalized. We complement the mission and goals of the
21st Century California School Leadership Academy, 21CSLA.
Housed in the Leadership Programs of Berkeley School of Education, we acknowledge our
presence on unceded Ohlone land.
We explore innovative ideas and compelling work of educational leaders at the intersection
of research, policy, and practice to realize individual social and environmental justice
because our democracy depends on it.

Jabari Mahiri 1:07
Welcome to the second part of a special two-part episode of Equity Leadership Now. We're
focusing today on Berkeley School of Education's Leadership for Equity and Democracy
Program, a three-year educational doctorate program known as LEAD. We just graduated
the first LEAD cohort, and we are here today with two of our newly-minted graduates, Dr.
Tu Carroz and Dr. Femi Ogundele along with the program's director, Dr. Lihi Rosenthal, to
talk about LEAD's unique strengths and resources, as well as a number of considerations
for anyone interested in applying to the next cohort of the program, which will be cohort
three.
Let's begin with Dr. Lihi Rosenthal, the Program Director of LEAD who has worked to
develop this educational doctorate since its inception.
Dr. Rosenthal, what makes LEAD different from other EdD programs?
Lihi Rosenthal 2:00
Thank you so much. Jabari, I think hearing from our students will really make it clear what
makes LEAD different, because it's their stories that really show how dynamic this program
can be. When we went out to design LEAD, we designed a program with equity and social
justice at its center and a specific focus on educational system leadership. The program
serves students from early childhood through university who are really navigating both in
their professional work and then newly in their doctoral scholarship, how to do system
leadership work that is capable of unlocking the potential of our vibrant democracy.
Lihi Rosenthal 2:38
The program is certainly rigorous. There are easier ways to earn your doctoral degree, and
I'm sure our students can attest to that, having just completed their dissertations and
graduated. But the program pairs that rigor with high levels of support. Those include close
advising relationships, an intentional cohort model, where students are working together
to persist in this program, to push each other's thinking and ultimately, with a high
graduation rate, to actually finish the program in the normative timeline of three years.
Our goal is to develop scholar-practitioners. And what I mean by that is that the program is
equally focused on this balance between preparing folks who are ready to do this work in
their professional context, and folks who are able to do scholarship at the highest levels
into issues of educational system leadership. To help with that, our courses are co-taught


by practitioners and scholars. Our milestones in the program include both performance
assessments and case studies that are ripped from the headlines and what's actually
happening on the ground of educational system leadership, and also, of course, some of
the eminent thinkers in the field.
Jabari Mahiri 3:45
Thank you, and we know that we have the proof of concept that we can get people in and
out in three years. And two of the people who evidence this concept are here today with us
as recent graduates of our program.
Dr. Rosenthal, can you introduce our two recent graduates?
Lihi Rosenthal 4:07
Oh, I would be so happy and proud to. Our first recent graduate is Dr. Tu Moua Carroz, who
serves as the Assistant Superintendent in the Roseville Joint Union High School District. Tu
comes to this work having sat at almost every seat in the public education system as a
classified youth development employee, as a teacher, an assistant principal, a principal, a
director, and most recently as an assistant superintendent in three different urban and
suburban districts here in California. She's joined today by Dr. Olufemi Ogundele, who is
the Associate Vice Chancellor for Enrollment and the Dean of Undergraduate Admissions
here at UC Berkeley. His vision and leadership in undergraduate admissions outreach
initiatives have targeted the state's LGBTQ-plus, undocumented, underserved, and first
generation students. These efforts have resulted in four of the most ethnically and
geographically diverse classes of students enrolled in Berkeley in three decades.
Jabari Mahiri 5:04
Wow. So at UC Berkeley, we have an unusual protocol of using people's first names
primarily. So we've already indicated that you guys have earned the title of doctor, but this
will be the only time that we use this for the rest of our conversation. But how does it feel,
Tu, being called “Doctor” now?
Tu Moua Carroz 5:31
Well, for me, personally, it's my dream come true. Not just mine, it's my parents' dream
come true, it's my in-laws' dream come true. This is the first doctorate on both sides of the
family, on both my family, the Moua family, and on the Carroz family. And so it's really, it's
about my ancestors, my children, my grandchildren, my future grandchildren.


It's about me setting the way and setting the path for achieving a doctorate, your terminal
degree, really, at a pretty late juncture in my life. I'm almost 50. I'm 47, and it really speaks
to my children and what our ancestors have spoken to us, which is, you're never too old to
learn. So it really means so much for me, my ancestors, my children, my future
grandchildren.
Jabari Mahiri 6:19
Thank you. Thank you. And I guess we could add to that, that you're never too young to
learn.
Femi, I happened to be at your graduation party yesterday, and I met your dad, an amazing
gentleman. A person about my age, and so I recognize from talking to him that you are not
the first doctor in your family. Tell us a little bit about what inspired you to apply to this
program.
Olufemi Ogundele 6:45
Thank you. Yeah, I think to your point, um, I'm not a first-generation graduate at all, but my
parents both came to the United States from Nigeria as international students. So the
importance of being educated has been something that has been a real cornerstone of my
entire family and I think for me, the reason why “Doctor” feels so new and different and is
so important is because working in education, I think that as a practitioner, I feel very
strongly about my practitioner identity, and the work that I've done moving forward.
But I also know that when we talk about really creating large change, or any type of
systemic change in education without the foundational experiences of the terminal degree,
I think that too often that folks, no matter how insightful they may be, could be written off.
And so, I use this experience and this title as another kind of weapon in my belt to fight
inequity and a reason, a rationale to be in as many rooms as I can to kind of speak that
truth to whoever wants to hear it. And so it's an honor. I also recognize where we got this
degree from is a really big deal. And so getting this degree from the number one public
institution in the world is a really big deal. I'm just so incredibly proud of myself, my cohort,
and for all of those who really poured into us, for us to be here.
Jabari Mahiri 8:19
And Tu, what inspired you to apply for this program?
Tu Moua Carroz 8:22


Yeah, so Lihi shared, this is almost my 25th year in public education, and in that time, in
2020 as we all remember, COVID had hit the world, and we were right in the midst of a
pandemic. And the application came out, and those of us in preK-12, we literally, and I think
in many sectors, had to flip the switch, and learn how to teach overnight, digitally. And with
that came such inequities. And at that time, I served in the Sacramento City Unified School
District. And so as you can imagine, I mean, we have 40,000 children, 78% poverty family,
almost 20% English learners and newcomers, and the lack of access to the Internet. And we
also realized our students had a lack of access to devices.
And so when this application came out, I was an area assistant superintendent overseeing
a quarter of the schools and a quarter of the city. I oversaw South Sacramento, which is
probably arguably one of the most impoverished parts of the city. I just remember talking
to my colleagues at that time, as well as my superintendent, thinking we really need to do
better by our children, not just when it's demanded of us in that moment, in that time, like
the pandemic.
And so when the Berkeley application came out, I remember reading through its emphasis
on social justice and equity, and just realizing on the ground in K-12 how disconnected we
are from the higher educational institutions, from scholarship, from research, and realizing
that if I really wanted to serve my community and our students, our 40,000 students, well,
that it was impending upon me to continue to penetrate that higher education space, so
that I can, not only personally and professionally, bring research and scholar to the
practice, but would be able to leverage, as Femi said, top tier scholars and practitioners as
thought partners, as research-practice partners in serving one of the most challenging
cities in California, particularly during one of the toughest time in the world. And so, that
was really what inspired me to apply for the program, with the fact that we needed to close
that space between higher education and K-12, and with the emphasis on equity and social
justice as well as the access to top tier scholars and practitioners, that was enough for me
to say, I'm throwing my name in the hat.
Jabari Mahiri 11:07
Well, we pulled your name out of that hat, and we've been continually rewarded by the fact
that we made that choice of accepting you, once you accepted us. You mentioned the
concept of closing the gap between K-12 and higher education. When we first envisioned
this program, we didn't fully think through how the higher education component was as
central to the work of the program as the K-12 component. Femi, of course, you're in a
higher education in terms of the work that you do. What specific aspects of this program's

5

teaching and curriculum content contributed to your development as a leader for equity
and democracy in relation to you being a person higher up in higher ed?
Olufemi Ogundele 11:55
Yeah, I think Tu really spoke to something that I had observed as a practitioner, which has
been this misalignment, or just a lack of conversation between folks in K-12 and folks in
higher education. When I got to Berkeley I started to learn all about this, like the large
California master plan, and understanding that it talked about, you know, the UCs and the
CSU, the California State Universities, and the community colleges.
One of the things that was really interesting to me about this program was in one of the big
ideas, it talks about how single-sector solutions cannot solve multiple or cross-sector
problems, right? And so, in admissions, in my work, I've always kind of believed that I've
existed kind of at this intersection between K-12 and higher education, and so I was really
interested to get into this space where we would be talking with other leaders in the fields,
in their various fields, about these issues and these circumstances. I think that when it
came to getting into the classroom and starting to really understand how K-12 is producing,
what it produces, which is what I see in the applicant pool, it was really helpful for me to be
able to continue to contextualize what we're seeing.
So whether it was learning more about California funding in K through 12 and how that,
how that works, or whether that was, to be honest with you, a lot of the introductions to
these critical ideas and critical research. And not just like CRT, but I'm talking like Black
feminist thought, and the work that we did around interest convergence and learning
about the Combahee River Collective, and this, this understanding that if we are to really
think about what it takes to create big system change, right, So not just thinking about
change at our individual spaces or at our individual institutions, but really big system
change, that we need to get into a room and really be analytical, not just of our own
individual outcomes, but how those outcomes, in fact, impact the other parts of the
educational sector? And so what I appreciate about LEAD is that we were constantly being
asked to think beyond just our individual, kind of school sites, and asking, how is that
interconnected or woven into the larger academic experiences that students don't
necessarily recognize might be multiple systems. They're just going to school, right? But as
leaders and as administrators, we have both this perspective, but then also kind of this
responsibility.
Jabari Mahiri 14:29


I'd like to ask Dr. Rosenthal, what are some of the other big ideas of LEAD?
Lihi Rosenthal 14:35
Absolutely. Well, Femi named two of them. You can't solve cross-sector problems with
single-sector solutions. And of course, this idea that leadership is not a position, it is an
embodied practice. There are four other big ideas in LEAD. To lead the system, you must
see the system, which is why we spend so much time really interrogating what actually is
happening for students and professionals who are navigating this landscape. You either
design for equity or you perpetuate inequity, this idea that there's only one path to equity,
and it is an intentional one.
A leader is a steward of the public good. There are lots of stakeholders in education, but if
we are leaders for equity and democracy, our ultimate responsibility is to the public. And
lastly, system leaders think slowly, which is an interesting one, in a rigorous and expedited
three year program where we're asking folks to jump through a lot of hoops, as Femi just
alluded to, but really with this idea of intentionality and reflection and taking the time to
really see the system and consider all of the intended and unintended consequences that
come from any single decision that a leader might make.
Jabari Mahiri 15:43
I'm going to add one more, which is not necessarily (encapsulated) as an official big idea,
but we have it as one of our slogans. Educate like democracy depends on it, and this notion
of democracy being under threat, under challenge, and that leaders in education are in the
primary positions necessary to really begin to help change that dynamic of helping us to
again, approach ideas in the society from the standpoint of reason, of evidence, of
rationality, of argumentation and persuasion, as opposed to emotionally driven decision
making.
Tu, you had already told us how you were inspired to engage in this program, to apply for
this program. But once you got here, what did you find as specific aspects of the programs,
teaching the curriculum, content that could contribute to your development as a leader for
equity and democracy?
Tu Moua Carroz 16:42
Yeah, I certainly want to emphasize and reiterate what Femi and Lihi shared with regards to
LEAD's big ideas, but want to bring it back to practice. So this notion of leading the system,
that you must see the system to lead a system. At that time, again, I was working in


Sacramento City Unified School District, and it is, I think it goes without saying, it's pretty
challenging to work in large city school districts with lots of complicated and complex
systems, and it is so easy as a leader to just sit back and say, well, it's not me, it's the
system, or, well, it's not me, it's the teachers union, or, well, it's not me, it's the School
Board of Education.
And I think what LEAD's big ideas have really called for me to do is to really show up as a
leader and to recognize that as a system leader, I have to engage with our labor partners. I
have to engage with our Board of Education. I have to engage with our advocacy groups
who will advocate for our most marginalized student groups, and that's what I've signed up
to do when I signed up, signed up to be a leader.
[musical break] 18:04
Jabari Mahiri 18:35
Femi, will you tell us a little bit about the focus of your dissertation and what's next, and
when we get into the focus of your dissertation, because you've just been working with this
and you've been immersed in it, I want you to give us the elevator pitch of the focus of your
dissertation and then a little bit more about what what you are thinking of next in the way
of scholarship and your actual profession.
Olufemi Ogundele 18:58
Yeah, no problem. And again, I just appreciate the focus on scholar practitioner, because I
really do believe that when you are able to introduce the rigors and the importance and the
enlightenment that can come from being a deep scholar to practitioners who are actively
looking for solutions or ways to move work, there's a bit of magic I think that happens
there that allows us to not just be focused on, you know, making sure that the position
papers and all the milestones are met, but really even the things that we chose to study
and do our dissertations on were impacted by what we do in real life and in real time.
And I think that there's an importance to that, to really make sure that scholarship is
speaking to the actual issues that are happening on the ground that practitioners can call
out as such issues. That's really what happened with me.
Coming to Berkeley was the first time that I had worked in a California Public Institution. So
my entire career has been in higher education and admissions. I'd worked at a variety of
institutions prior to coming to Berkeley, Stanford, Cornell, Ithaca College, University of


Delaware. And when I got to Berkeley, it was the first time that I had to interact with
Proposition 209 and so Proposition 209 being the affirmative action ban that came into
place in 1999 no longer allowing higher education spaces to consider race or gender in the
application process.
And right before COVID hit, the entire University of California decided to move away from
standardized testing in college admissions because of all of what was happening around
testing centers and things like that. And so, in this time, where we did not have
standardized testing anymore, and there was still a lot of pressure for us to make sure that
the caliber of students that we were bringing in matched the historical caliber of students.
We started to look towards the research, and what does the research say about student
persistence in K-12, and how it matched? And so through that, I started to really uncover,
especially some of our most selective parts of the institution, these math requirements, AP
Calculus and or BC Calculus, or AP Physics. And at the time, the College Board had just
come out with this thing called the AP Ledger. And the AP Ledger allowed me to
understand what AP courses were taught at which high school in their seed codes.
And that - when I received that data and I ran that on aggregate, across the state of
California, it really opened my mind and my eyes to a major disparity, which was, and
again, this misalignment, which was, there's an academic requirement to participate in
certain majors on our campus, and there was a lack of opportunity to engage in those said
requirements in the K-12 space.
Jabari Mahiri 21:57
So tell us how your dissertation begins to address that, it's going to be a longer elevator
ride.
Olufemi Ogundele 22:05
[laughs] No, I got you. So my dissertation really focused on that specific phenomenon,
because I started to ask other practitioners across the country if they had done that same
analysis. And so my dissertation focuses on specifically STEM admissions, understanding,
as people in my position are seeing that there might be admissions requirements at their
institutions that are not necessarily broadly accessible to students in their state – What are
people in my role doing about that to create access to STEM majors in particular? And so
my dissertation looks at how chief admissions officers at public universities, Research 1ne
institutions, are both understanding and addressing this misalignment between higher


education admission standards and K-12 academic opportunities, and what they're doing
about that.
And what I found in that, was that there's three things that are really happening. One is
that they are spending much more time with K-12 partnerships in order to better prepare
school districts around what they're producing, and their students to not make sure that
they're eligible, but also to make sure that they're competitive.
They're also creating different admissions pathways on their campuses, whether that is
through pre-engineering programs or or other types of onramps to ensure that students
are taken care of and not considered to be remediated. And really the third was working
with faculty and making sure that faculty really understood the need for us to think about
this at an entry level curriculum, because it does not make sense for a student to graduate
from a public high school in any state just to be told that in that same state, at your public
flagship or any regional public that you are somehow ineligible because of a lack of
something that K-12 produced. And so that's really where my research went.
Jabari Mahiri 23:58
Interestingly and not ironically, your own practice as a dean of admissions for UC Berkeley
reflects all three of those findings that you saw across the country with other admissions
officers and research one universities, to the extent and we mentioned earlier that in the
last four years that you've been here, the admission rate, particularly of people of color,
with a specific emphasis on African Americans, Black students, has gone up so significantly,
40% or more. I'm not sure if I have the statistics exactly right.
But in the literature now, there's been called the “Femi” effect, the idea that in all of the UCs
this was not happening in terms of this amazing, dramatic increase, and the things that you
were doing since you got here facilitated that. And we were clear that the work that you did
with your dissertation and turning that over into more intensive ways that you're going to
engage in this trajectory that you're already on will be one of the benefits of this work.
Tu, finally, tell us a little bit about your dissertation and what's next for you.
Tu Moua Carroz 25:07
Yeah. So I studied the risk and resilience of women of color in the role of school
superintendency. And obviously that calls deeply to me, because as a professional, I've
worked with one woman of color as a school superintendent, and I've had a total of almost


12 to 13 school superintendents that I've worked for. And then, of course, as a woman of
color, I just find it interesting that our workforce, K-12 educators, are made up of 75%
women and only less than 5% of school superintendents in the nation represent women of
color. Now that data is slowly growing, particularly after the worldwide pandemic, which
made me think about the research around “the glass cliff”, how women of color are often
lifted up into the highest positions in their organization when it's quite tumultuous and
very dangerous. And of course, that's synonymous with what happened during the COVID
and the immediate need to teach students online and all of the complex needs around
doing so in a very archaic system such as public education in K-12.
Specifically, I researched three questions, and that is, what are the career paths women of
color take on their journey to the school superintendency? How does a woman's specific
racial, ethnic background get reflected in challenges and opportunities for the
superintendency? What skills, strategies and supports have contributed to the success of
women of color in the school superintendency? And I'll speak to just my findings broadly
and generally.
So generally speaking, women of color rise up to the space or the role of school
superintendency through the instructional side, and not too different from my path, to be
very honest with you, we come up through the side as classroom instructors, come up
through the side of education. And in my findings, as well as in my data gathering stage, all
of my informants reminded me that to really broaden our skill set and be prepared, not
just be prepared for the job, but to survive the job that we needed to grow our skillset on
the business side of the house. So that would mean, you know, attend any kind of the
business academies that are offered to K-12 leaders who are aspiring to be
superintendents, because at the end of the day, a superintendent's job truly is to ensure
the school district is fiscally solvent, as well as in a space of political harmony.
And we know in K-12, it just feels like there's anything but harmony in our school districts.
And so much of that really does come through the side of the business side, and that is one
of the findings, is that we, any aspiring, particularly women of color, who've only ever been
on the side of the house that is about teaching and learning, should broaden their
experience, to learning that business side of the house.
And then with regards to skills, strategies and supports, because it's become a political job,
period. There's no way to say other than it is a political job.


So one of the strategies that all of the informants provided for me is to grow your political
network, that you're going to need your political network, when you're applying for the job,
when you're talking to those search firm consultants, as well as when you're in the job and
you're leading big community initiatives that always has political turmoil involved in the
details that you will need those political groups, political networks to support you to get
through, not just getting your initiatives to pass for students, but of course, ensuring that
those initiatives stay in the system and stay successfully.
Jabari Mahiri 29:15
I just want to emphasize that notion that you all are working professionals, and not just
working professionals, but working at some of the highest levels of administration,
management, leadership, etc. And the proof of concept for us was, could we have the
vigorous, rigorous program that we imagined, and still it be viable for people who are
working 12 and 14 hour days. So people are thinking about applying, just be aware that it is
possible, because these current graduates have proven, you know, that is possible. And I'm
not sure if anybody's out there doing jobs that are more intense, more complicated, more
demanding than some of our current students in LEAD.
Jabari Mahiri 29:58
Lihi, could you help us bring this to a close by highlighting some of the things that you have
heard in this conversation that you want to leave our audience with, and any additional
information in terms of how people might be interested in applying.
Lihi Rosenthal 30:12
Absolutely, well, it's never easy to follow Tu and Femi, but what I'm reminded of as I listen
to their incredible testimonials is a concept that we've talked about a lot in LEAD and that's
the idea of freedom dreaming. Freedom dreaming is a concept coined by historian Robin
DG Kelly. And one of the quotes that we've used in class oftentimes is that “Freedom
dreaming allows us to visualize the future that we want to live in and harness the necessary
tools and resources to actively move that dream towards a reality.”
And we need dreams. We're looking in this next cohort of LEAD for more dreamers, for
folks who see the system and have seen the systems, still want to lead them. That takes a
special type of person, someone who's willing to run towards the punches, as opposed to
away from them. And we also need folks who are willing to work to actualize those dreams.
Those of us who gathered last week to celebrate the commencement of Cohort 1, were
treated to a speech by Femi. He was one of the speakers at our commencement, an


amazing speaker at our commencement, and he inspired us with his dreams. And then he
ended with a call to action.
The last five words in his speech were, I'll see you at work, not, go out and celebrate. You
know, pat yourself on the back. But we have work to do. That we are in the business of
producing education, and education is producing some seriously inequitable and
questionable outcomes, and so we have work to do. And I think that idea of, we need
dreamers who are workers is really what we're looking for in the next cohort of LEAD.
And if that's you, you should know that the official application will open on September 1
and it closes on December 1. Between now and then, we'll have a few info sessions that are
offered remotely for folks who want to listen and learn that way. We'll have a public
demonstration class, which is hosted here at the Berkeley School of Education, in-person,
for folks who want to come and actually experience the LEAD program as a firsthand
participant, and there's many other opportunities and resources available on our website,
so I definitely encourage folks to check that out as well. That website is
bse.berkeley.edu/lead.
Jabari Mahiri 32:21
Thank you.
Drs. Tu Carroz, Femi Ogundele, Lihi Rosenthal, thank you so much for this conversation
about this amazing educational doctorate program on our podcast today, Equity
Leadership Now.
Brianna Luna 32:42
Our podcast team includes Jabari Mahiri, Brianna Luna, Mayra Reyes, Becca Minkoff, Diana
Garcia, Audra Puchalski, Jennifer Elemen, Jen Burke, Robyn Ilten-Gee, and Ryan Whittle.