When a man of faith steps into the public eye, the journey is as transformative as it is challenging. Our latest conversation with United States Representative Michael Cloud offers a rare glimpse into the personal evolution that ensues when a dedicated church member rises to become a guardian of the public trust. Representative Cloud shares his candid experiences, from the emotional and spiritual hurdles of serving in Congress to balancing firm principles with the art of negotiation in an environment rife with diverse beliefs.
The political landscape is a battleground where ideals are tested and character is forged. In this episode, we wade through the complexities of leading with conviction while embracing the nuances of communication. Representative Cloud illustrates how a Christian leader's love-driven boundaries and values come into play, confronting political and societal challenges. His insights are a masterclass for anyone seeking to understand the intricacies of decision-making and negotiation, all through a lens of faith and principled leadership.
Finally, the essence of our dialogue rests in the heartfelt advice for those considering a leap into public service. Leadership is a calling, and following Christ in the arena of governance demands not only spiritual discernment but also an unwavering support system. We express our profound appreciation for Congressman Cloud's dedication to his faith and country and encourage our listeners to reflect on their own potential to make a meaningful impact in these critical times. Join us for an episode that promises to inspire, challenge, and equip you for leadership that transcends the ordinary.
When a man of faith steps into the public eye, the journey is as transformative as it is challenging. Our latest conversation with United States Representative Michael Cloud offers a rare glimpse into the personal evolution that ensues when a dedicated church member rises to become a guardian of the public trust. Representative Cloud shares his candid experiences, from the emotional and spiritual hurdles of serving in Congress to balancing firm principles with the art of negotiation in an environment rife with diverse beliefs.
The political landscape is a battleground where ideals are tested and character is forged. In this episode, we wade through the complexities of leading with conviction while embracing the nuances of communication. Representative Cloud illustrates how a Christian leader's love-driven boundaries and values come into play, confronting political and societal challenges. His insights are a masterclass for anyone seeking to understand the intricacies of decision-making and negotiation, all through a lens of faith and principled leadership.
Finally, the essence of our dialogue rests in the heartfelt advice for those considering a leap into public service. Leadership is a calling, and following Christ in the arena of governance demands not only spiritual discernment but also an unwavering support system. We express our profound appreciation for Congressman Cloud's dedication to his faith and country and encourage our listeners to reflect on their own potential to make a meaningful impact in these critical times. Join us for an episode that promises to inspire, challenge, and equip you for leadership that transcends the ordinary.
Hello everyone, my name is Tim Webb, I'm the founder of the Texas Leadership Summit and our mission is empowering everyday leaders with the courage, tools and hope to ignite a revival of Christian leadership.
Speaker 1:And we know today that failed leadership costs lives.
Speaker 1:And it's our desire to raise up godly men and women who are leading out in the four pillars of education, church, government and business, and we just want to equip them to stand for their faith in these pillars, to do what is biblically right in these pillars.
Speaker 1:And in today's time it's vitally important that we stand firm in our faith. And so I'm really excited today to have with us United States Representative Michael Cloud, and really thrilled to not only hear your story again. We've had a little bit of opportunity to visit and hear some of those things, but I'm very passionate and very excited for you to be able to tell our listeners, our viewers, how this not only your background and just getting into this, but some of the transitional things as a leader. And so if we could just start off with just maybe telling us a little bit about your background, which I think, as they hear your story, kind of laid some groundwork for how you are serving as a leader today, so tell us a little bit about yourself and first of all thanks for having me on and really appreciate the work you do.
Speaker 2:I know ministry is not for the faint at heart, and being a pastor and everything you deal with, so and really you're on the front lines of where the rubber meets the road of what's going on in our country and so really really appreciate the work that you do. But yeah, you know, I'm a church born and bred kid Never imagined myself doing this, you know, grew up with a deep love and affection for our country and our history. But my parents were good citizens, loved America, but I don't even remember a political sign ever being in our yard, much less getting a deep into political involvement or that kind of thing. Went to Oral Roberts University, graduated, went to work for a church, loved what we were doing, you know helping people every single day, helping advance the gospel, seeing lives changed, all those different kind of things. But really begin to look at what was going on in our nation and saw like churches growing, getting bigger, but our nation was in decline, you know, and that began to trouble me and I'm like, and so I began to puzzle and I didn't have I and I still don't have all the answers, but it's like. It's like, it seems like we should be trying to figure out what's in that black box, so to speak, and that kind of led me to get involved at a grassroots level and just trying to encourage people to get involved, show up and vote, engage in those kind of things, and didn't expect it to lead to a political run.
Speaker 2:The short story is, you know, we were asked to run and you think that's another people's kind of thing to do, right? But my wife and I, long story short, prayed about it, ultimately felt like it was something we were supposed to do, and I remember my wife actually saying and this was the way she put it, oddly enough, I have a piece about it, you know. So this wasn't like oh, this is going to be a lot of fun, you're just setting off to DC. I have three at the time, three young kids at home. Now there are three teenagers.
Speaker 2:But we felt like it was something we were supposed to do and really concluded that you know, if this is something we feel God's asking us to do, we kind of don't have a choice in the matter and the choice is to obey or not to obey at that point. And then we were brought to Joshua one, nine and 10, where God commands Joshua. He says be strong and courageous. A few verses later, be strong and courageous. And by the time we get to nine and 10, he's like you know, this isn't really a suggestion. He's like have not, I commanded you be strong and courageous. And really, you know, especially after being here, you see how important that is and how important it is for all of us as people of faith really stand up in times like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wouldn't. I was curious. I wanted our viewers to be able to hear from you just some of that personal transition, because you were in full time ministry, correct? I mean you serving in a church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're serving in a church for many, many years helping people. I had started a small business and did that for a short little while. I remember going to my pastor and telling him really what happened is my volunteer time in the political world began to conflict. You know ministry hours right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I do. And it kind of began to conflict with it. And so of course, your mind thinks well, obviously I'm going to have to figure out a way to get out of this volunteer job. But I prayed about it and got a very clear no. And I remember talking to my pastor, also known as my boss at the time right, help me process this. You know right, this is what I'm hearing. And so we had a long, smooth Transition. That was, you know, healthy for for the church.
Speaker 1:But but then I started a small business really to back, buy back my time so I could volunteer, and in what I was doing, when there's some specific struggles that, just from a leadership perspective, leading your, your wife, your family, oh, in that shift where some, where there's some difficult things you had to navigate through, maybe moving, because I think today we have so separated Life from the sacred, as if they're sacred and secular and right, and you and I've talked about this all of life is sacred when you're in the faith.
Speaker 1:So was there some struggles, maybe that we're difficult navigating in that transition.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, most definitely. You know just the logistics of it and you know a lot of people don't really know the daily life. But you know, today I flew. You know I woke up in my my bed at home Four in the morning, got on a plane At we wheels up at five in the morning and and now I'm in DC. You know talking to you and and so my weekly routine. You know, monday morning you get on a plane, you fly to DC. You're here for the better part of the week, maybe home for the weekend, most weekends home.
Speaker 2:So you know, hug my kids and wife on Saturday and on church in church on Sunday and then back at it again, usually about three of the four weeks out of a month. That's, that's what you're doing, and then in that that week at home. You know we have 14 counties in our district and you know so you're you're trying to stay connected with what's going on. So you have a real good pulse of the people you're trying to represent. You can't really represent them if you're not connected to them. You know so.
Speaker 2:You know there's some definite logistical challenges and you're still wanting to have that, that Faith formation in your children. You're still wanting to mentor them just in life and and those kind of things and how to stay involved and do all those different kind of things. You know presented certainly a number. I remember three different reps when I got here told me make sure your wife and your wife and your scheduler get along. Make sure your wife like your well, it's, make sure your wife likes your schedule one you can change, the other one you can't right.
Speaker 1:Make sure your wife likes your scheduler.
Speaker 2:And they said because you know, junior has a soccer game, your wife's not calling you about it, she's calling the scheduler. And so I mean this is a whole new world for me, right? But you know, it's just the kind of demands that are on your time when you represent. You know 700 to a thousand to a million people and you're doing your best to stay connected to them, but but not forget who you are in the process, you know. At the very beginning I said however long I'm here, whatever I got it, long God has me do this, want to be faithful to it, obviously, but at the end I want to still be married and I want my kids to respect me you know so.
Speaker 2:So definitely, you know just the logistics of it. Present presented a number of challenges that, through time, you just had to learn how to work through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the. So you used to be on the outside, but now you're on the inside government, but as you, as you, as you made that shift there, as well being you know the new person and You're moving into this whole different, different way of life. I mean it. Obviously your whole family has to be on board, but where there's some things that, as you, you became a representative and you're serving in that capacity, what was, what was it like to just the opening of your eyes, I guess, for lack of a better way to say that Coming from the outside, thinking it might be a certain way, but now you're on the inside track, you see all of that. What was that like for you personally in in regards to your faith?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, first of all, I can tell you it's it's no prettier on the front row. Okay, I can say that. And you know, coming to Congress I knew it was messed up. I mean, for me it's kind of like, if things are going great, I'd rather stay at home, see my family more. I love Texas, I'd rather be there any day than in Washington DC, but but I Just coming here, you know, you get here and you begin to look in what's going on.
Speaker 2:You know it's messed up, but to uncover the ways that it's messed up, how deep the corruption and how entrenched it is, and having happened over several decades, really we've kind of kept our eye off the ball for a while. And and there's these bad habits and mission creep and all this stuff that's, and in some of it nefarious, some of it Maybe out of a good intention, but still debilitating to the American people. And you know it's just, it's so entrenched and so many people Benefit off of the status quo that working to find strategies to, to, to work against that and to correct the things that are wrong and have good triumph over evil Is is quite the task. And if, if you're coming from the private sector, for example, whether it be in ministry or business, you're, you're used to a certain ROI on your work. You know you work this much and you're able to kind of see results, and here it takes so much more effort to move the needle just a little bit and if you don't stay motivated and know who you're serving and why, and those things, that could become very debilitating.
Speaker 2:And I remember the one of the things that surprised me right off the bat was, as I would meet members, how many of them were discouraged. Hmm, actually, you know it had come here very optimistic, wanted to make a difference, and then just kind of, after years of almost spinning the plates, not really moving the needle, you know, maybe making some difference back home and those kind of things, but ultimately Washington DC being the same beast that you came here, you know, you could see the discourage on some of their faces, you know. And so that was one of the surprises really when I got here.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, so personally you've had, I'm sure you've had to battle that discouragement there well. You can get pulled into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, people ask me, like, you know what's it like serving in Congress? You know, you ever get bored of like there's never a boring day, you know. I mean, there's, there's days where you're just in all, you're on the front row of history and it's, it's just amazing, those, those are fewer and far between than you might think. Uh, there's other days you feel like you're accomplishing something, and then there's other days, you, you're banging your head against the wall, going how do we, how do, why can't we make progress on this? But you're never bored, you know.
Speaker 2:And, uh, if you're not careful and you don't know why you're here, uh, yeah, you could very easily get into discouragement. Um, you know, and so reminding yourself that why you're here, uh, I guess the reason, the why you're here, and then ultimately, again, it comes down to obedience. Right, you know, whatever we're called to do, uh, we have to do it with all our heart, all our might, all our strength. Uh, and, and so you do your best to do that, even through what the days it may seem like you're not accomplishing much, that that particular day.
Speaker 1:I think, at the local level, some of the struggles that some people may have is this why is it so hard to do the right thing or to know the right versus wrong, good versus evil? And I can only imagine the world that you're operating in there in DC. This issue of compromise, I think you know. In one of our conversations we talked about Shadrach, meshach and Abednego. You know the Old Testament. You know, regardless, whether the Lord delivers us or not, we will not bow, and there's some Christians who believe, you know. You just got to stand firm and plow through and leave the results up to God. I mean, you're a man of faith and so, in this world of compromise, what's it been like to have to navigate through those conversations with people that you're serving with?
Speaker 2:Well, and to that point I think, even asked earlier I don't know if I actually answered it, but you know what's it like. You know this faith transition like you know living out your faith. You know when I was on church staff, you know you go to work. All your friends are believers and I don't mean to belittle those in ministry because I know how much work it is and I know the burden they carry. But from a daily perspective, you know you're interacting with people who are like-minded and those kind of things. And then you end up in a political world where that's definitely not the case and even people who are maybe in your political platform, different motivations at play, different things that are going on and, from a faith perspective, a difference of understanding as to kind of the why behind the what. You know why these things reveal themselves as policy initiatives, but there's powers at play behind them. You know for good and for evil a lot of times, and so for coming in and trying to have clarity and those different kind of things, and then you know, in a sense my faith came alive in a whole different way because of, like you're saying, shadrach, meshach, abednego, daniel Joseph. You know you go through Hebrews 11 and the Hall of Fame of Faith, and you know I've talked to some people and ministered, you know, in different groups of pastors sometimes, where you know you just go through that and how many of those are political figures, you know, and sometimes there's ideology like it's two separate worlds, right, and you go through that and by faith Moses, by faith, abraham, by faith, you know all these people accomplish things and you get to the end that says they administer justice, they built and tore down kingdoms. They did I mean all these very big and bold things. And so you find yourself in a place where you're navigating and doing your best to advance the kingdom of God, to be a witness to those people around you and then to, like you said, no bill that comes to your desk very rarely, I should say is 100% you love it and 0% you'd like it or don't like it. You know it's not like that it's, and so you do your best to stand on principles that are matter.
Speaker 2:You know, and certainly in the political context, the US Constitution is, you know, a dividing line, moral issues and those kind of things, and then you try to make progress on the things that are negotiable.
Speaker 2:In a sense, you know, and try to move things in the right direction. You know, for me we're at such a critical time on so many different issues in our nation. True existential the term crisis gets almost overused at this point but from a historical perspective, we are in that era where, in so many different ways, from a fiscal stance, from a moral stance, from many of these different areas of influence, we really are that crisis point where, if we don't have dramatic action, we will, our brighter days won't be ahead. You know, I'm optimistic that they are, but it's going to take, you know, massive addressing the political world. But from a faith perspective too, the political world is often the trailing indicator of what's going on in culture and sometimes that's where, you know, people of faith can kind of get the cart before the horse. In a sense, we're looking for politicians to solve the problem when there's a lot of work for us to do to be the salt and light in preserved culture.
Speaker 1:Well, I think in that light, when you obviously you serve a local area, you have a community you represent, there's a certain group of people you represent. So it really comes home to the local church, local leadership. How are we equipping people to be leaders? I mean, if we were to remove all of the quote bad leaders, you know we're real quick to judge or put people in categories in their leadership but even if we were to remove what we would maybe deem bad leaders, would we have the people to replace them? As one of the concerns that I have, Because, based on what you're telling me, you know, at the local level, at the church, if we're not doing our job at the local level, then what are we doing? And so I'm wanting to ask you, more personal level, what are some things that if we were to encourage the local leadership within the church and our communities, with what you now know in the role that you serve, what could we do at the local level for leadership? That would be helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to your point, exactly a spot on, in the sense that if you could come here and somehow magically get a wand and make all the corruption disappear and you know all the people who are doing the various things in government, the different levels, you know, somehow you know they would pack up their bags in a day and move out, which you know they're fighting to keep the power and authority. So you know right. But if, even if you could magically do that, there's not enough competent, capable people of character to fill the ranks right now and to fill the vacuum, and so a lot of times people are coming looking for us for answers and we have a responsibility, no doubt, to address the critical issues that are before us, but at the same time, you know, preparing the next generation of leaders and preparing people of character and those. That's a generational issue and a lot of it is needs to be done in the church. You know when, absolute, one of the key issues that we're dealing with.
Speaker 2:If you had to bring everything we're dealing with, from all the political issues down to cultural issues, everything down to maybe a singularity, it could very likely be the belief or understanding of is there truth or is there not? Is there an absolute truth or is it whatever you want it to be in the moment? And right, and relativism has really taken hold at this point, which is completely outside of the Christian world view where we understand there is an absolute truth. Now we might differ on our understanding of what it is and but in times past, for example, we you know, we we agreed there was a truth to be found, right, and we might differ on it, and so the discussion was in let's try to find truth in this situation as best as our human understanding can get to, and then turn that in, you know, in this context, and pollute the political world into policy. But when you have a you're in a world view where truth becomes malleable and it is whatever you need it to be in the moment, then then the issues that come before. I mean it's bold, faced, lying and these kind of things.
Speaker 2:You know, when people come to the mic in a press conference and whatever it needs to be in the moment to move the needle, and it's about what, pulling these levels of power as opposed to the, you know, and so it ends up being, you know, very much ungodly in the moment and all these different kind of things and so raising up people, you know, even with even you look at the early church and they dealt with narcissism and kind of invading their faith and theology and those kind of things, and it's something that church always has to be in guard and that guard that the the philosophy of the time would invade it.
Speaker 2:You know, from the simple perspective of the difference of asking the question for your kids Of what do you want to be when you grow up, versus like what has God called you to be, that simple Subtext of you know is, is my faith about what God does for me or is my faith about what I do For the kingdom? Is, you know, a subtle subtext that changes the perspective of everything and in the effects, how you decide what college you go to or what you're reading and what you're studying, how you spend your free time. You know what are you doing, you know summer breaks and you know all those different kind of things when we're, when we're training up the next generation. You know and I mean you can Start with that but there's, you know, plenty of other theological Shifts or outcomes or points to make that that really affect how the next generation is prepared to lead or not right.
Speaker 1:I wish we could, I wish we had the Well, not wish we could, because I know we can that just the, the follow-through on. What does it mean to have character? You know, it's one thing because we talked about what is truth and defining that and knowing that, but there's in my world that I live in, I see two parts of the same coin. There's not only knowing what is right, but it's also the willingness to do what is right when no one's looking. Yeah, two things being being willing to because we can know what is right all day long, yeah, but the follow-through and that's really where the test of character, I believe, comes in.
Speaker 1:And in the world that you live in, I imagine you can have a lot of conversations with different representatives, different congressmen and women, but they can say all the right things, but follow through and doing the right things and I think of at the local level. That's one of the things that we're striving to do with Texas leadership summit, in our, in our networking with other leaders, encouraging them, is that that seems to be, and maybe you can speak to this that seems to be the breaking point having the courage, having the courage to do what is right. And and I can't even imagine in the world that you're serving, in the times where you're sitting there, maybe going. This is the right thing to do, this is the right thing to do, but but just that, that courage, because you oftentimes you don't know how it's going to turn out.
Speaker 2:You really don't, and that's, you know, one of the big things to take a stand of courage. A lot of times, you know, in the, one of the things that really drives this place is self-preservation, and whether, whether that's a particular agency trying to justify its existence and therefore its budget, or whether it's a Certain Political figure trying to get reelected, yeah, you know, it becomes self-preservation. That kind of drives the the day and the decision-making apparatus, unfortunately, as opposed to, I'm here to accomplish something and I'm going to work to accomplish that thing, you know, and in those moments where you, you need to take a courageous stand and don't know the outcome of what it would take, you know, people are sometimes disincentivized to take a courageous stand or a courageous action, you know. But yet you go through scripture. They want to see the end from the beginning. If they can't, politically, we're mapping out their mind and those kind of things, and so becomes this like thing instead of you know what's Sometimes you, you have to bring these decision points and yes, it's good to use the wisdom God's given us, the knowledge and all those different kind of things, but there's been a lot of times in my, my life.
Speaker 2:You just have to bring it down to cut away the clutter. What's the right thing to do in this moment? What do I have a piece about doing? And and when you take a courageous stand, you do everything you can to make sure you know as much as you can. You know, for example, some of these things. I had to know the, the rules, I had to talk to the parliamentarian, I had to make sure I understood the mechanics of it all those kind of things but ultimately, the decision to do right.
Speaker 2:I heard someone once say there's a difference between the, I guess, the decision-making process Making, knowing what to do and figuring out how to do it. You know, and and deciding the right thing to do. A lot of times you won't know the end in mind, and but that's really what faith comes in. You know these great miracles that we've seen God produce throughout scripture. I was always somebody taking obedient act of faith and and not Usually not knowing, might, might have an idea what God's trying to accomplish in the armor, but you know, I'm not sure what I'm saying. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm saying personally, not knowing what that meant for them. Right, you know, and that could be just as true as someone sitting in a local club chapter where they see some ungodly agenda coming into it as much as it is in the halls of Congress. You know, and how are we gonna react in that moment? You know, are we going to take a stand for truth and righteous and justice, and you know, godliness or not, and usually that's uncomfortable, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:I'm sure, having both of us been in ministry, we know how it can get uncomfortable, right, right. But one of the things I think would be very encouraging to our viewers also would be the kind of language you use and how you approach people who don't believe the same as you, and I think this is a lesson that would be very valuable at the local level, because at the local level you can get really heated with your passion.
Speaker 1:You know these issues you're passionate about, whether it be at the school board, the city council, where you're trying to navigate through issues that affect the whole nation. So could you help us with some of the things that you that are invaluable in how you communicate with people on the opposite or opposing side, if you will?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is. Is that possible? This may be a little complicated. I'm gonna try to work through this one. It's one of those. I see the algorithm in my head, but it's because, ultimately, a lot of it comes down to just Lord.
Speaker 2:Guide me by your spirit you know this conversation you know and help me not make a fool of myself for you in this process. But you know one thing is wherever I go, I want to be salt and light for the kingdom of God. Amen and understanding. You know maybe the difference between people who are intent to do evil and then people who are deceived and willing to make a difference. That's a great point. You know, we see both Christ walking into the temple and turning over tables calling wicked leaders. You know vipers and those kind of things. But then he also said to Bruce Reed I won't, you know squinch, you know.
Speaker 2:And so I try to communicate in policy in ways that kind of can build on ramps in a way for people who are willing to, who are open and maybe just misguided or haven't seen the whole picture or those kind of things, but yet stand strong on principle. You know you can't compromise. What is the core principles? You know in faith, the scripture, and you know the political world, the US constitution for example. You know you gotta stand strong on these principles but you can find ways to communicate in a way that attract like. Ultimately I'm trying to win the day. I'd rather win someone to the argument I've yet to see wagging a finger in somebody's face and calling them a fool, yet to cause the light bulb to go off on somebody and then go aha. Now I get it. Yeah, thank you for pointing that out. Thank you, I appreciate it. That's what I was waiting on. I'm coming to the light.
Speaker 2:Yeah now that's not to say, and I do appreciate those. And there's been times you know I do myself where you've got to stand for truth and make a clear clarion call, because we do live in a world right now ambivalence as well to where even people who claim to walk in the light can't distinguish between light and dark. You know what I mean. So there is, you know, for me I try to make it principle-based versus personality, and make the principle very clear and let people you know, if you feel convicted by that clear principle, then maybe you know, let people fall wherever the camp is. You know, I can't say I'm perfect at it, but it's something I'm constantly kind of trying to work on and make sure that I'm doing it in a way that's honorable to God.
Speaker 1:Well, in the just in some of our final minutes, I'd really like to broach the part of leadership that I think is invaluable in having you personally, knowing ministry, obviously a man of faith, leading with love and not allowing the world to define what we mean by love. Well, you know, as scripture has pointed out, it is a sacrificial love. It is 100% at the expense of the one giving for the benefit of the other. And so we are moving into February and people love to play on this issue of love and we say, leading with love.
Speaker 1:But oh, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a not on the door. Hey guys, remember, free pro tip, free family tip? Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:How is that leading with love and just the love of Christ, for example? How's that influenced your walk? And I'm sure we could spend another hour on this, but yeah, this could be an entire podcast and another day of the day. That's right. That's right, it's a great deal.
Speaker 2:But I think you know, first of all, a lot of it has to do with what you said. Right now, and especially in the times, because there is an effort to control the language and redefine the language, and so, you know, we go to church and hear God is love, but then we go in the world and we hear love means all these other things, and so we think, well, I'm supposed to, you know, and it becomes an excuse for shiviousness or, you know, accepting things that are completely ungodly. You know, and in the case, you know, I'm from South Texas, one of the biggest issues right now is what's going on in the border, and for me to say that, you know, to allow cartels to continue to do what they're doing is love would be. You know, and at some point, you know, love is standing up and drawing a line, love is protecting the innocent. Love is doing these things as well. You know, in the personal interaction with people.
Speaker 2:I think it's, you know, trying to kind of what we were just discussing, trying to win the day. You know there are people who are just in the political world who are intent to do evil and wrong. You know, and you've got to call that out. But when you can you know you can't do that show that I'm gonna stand strong in this principle. It's not because I have anything against you, you know. I think in the way that you discipline, you know children you're trying to help grow and help them develop and those kind of things. You stand strong on what the principles is because you know that's gonna be what requires success in their life and those kind of things. But that doesn't mean you have to get angry or upset or hateful in how you address it. And so, again, it's one of those challenging things where every day you get up and praying, get your head on straight and then ask for God's grace to do every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think just full circle with what you started with on your motivation for why you do what you do. You know we're not obedient to earn our salvation according to Orthodox Christian faith. We are obedient out of this love and appreciation for our Christ, our Savior. And so that love motivation if you will just driving what we do and as a pastor in a local community, just wanting to encourage you to know that you're loved by Christ, and out of what he has done for you to be reminded of that daily, you know, and following his example I try to share In fact, we've been walking through this in our church is just that we know that if we are desiring to be godly people, men and women, that we will suffer persecution, but we're just following the example of Christ. You know the world's not gonna be friend Christ. He was crucified but out of that example of love that he had has for us, that's our ultimate motivation and we know that where you are today which I just want to encourage you in the fire, let that love motivation for Christ and just be your fuel and then, hopefully, in your interaction, you're seeing people and they're hearing the message and they're seeing the example that you're setting there in Washington DC?
Speaker 1:Just in closing, what are some things? Are there any key takeaways that you might have for our local leaders who are aspiring, maybe, or they're thinking about making this transition as you've made? Is there anything that you could? Oh my Again.
Speaker 1:Every question seems to be another episode topic, but a podcast topic but just quickly, just off the top of your head, if you can, something that they should take away from this if they're praying through making the transition that you've made.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh man, yeah, that's a big one, brother, there's so much there. Obviously, pray about it. Sure, all of us. We should make sure it's something that God wants us to be doing. If you run, it will change your. You will learn a lot. It will change your life. You'll find out a lot about yourself as well. We certainly need more people who are godly running. But also I'm reminded of Paul talking to Tim and he said the study that showed yourselves as approved, one of the.
Speaker 2:I was actually talking to my kids over this weekend. I said probably one of the most important lessons I've learned early on is to guard your heart. And how many times you have to go back because you put yourself out there. There will be people talking about you, making up stuff about you.
Speaker 2:I mean you put yourself in the fray, which I've had the opportunity to go and sit across the room from pastors in India who were abused at the time and those kinds of things. I mean just horrific circumstances that looked to us as visiting them. We're great people of faith. I'm like, no, you know, yeah, you know, and so in that sense, and ultimately, we looked at Christ at the cross and the persecution we face is nothing to compare to that, but still to know that that will be out there and you're gonna have to go back and make sure that your motivations stay pure, that you don't respond out of evil intent or be reactionary, vengeful or spiteful or all these different kind of things. So you know there's one scripture that count the cost before you go in and know what you're getting into.
Speaker 2:I mean, I certainly would not discourage people, because we definitely need godly people, but also make sure you count the cost and you know.
Speaker 1:And this I think, just in all things for leadership to have the support and accountability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the first things we did obviously was we established a prayer group that just prays for us weekly and then, you know, keep grounded with friends I've had for 30 years who have permission to speak into my life and make sure that you know you stay grounded and you know those are gonna be some key things as you walk into this, but it's certainly worth a journey. I mean, I read scripture and understand at a whole different level now with you, know people, you know the heroes of the faith we're going through.
Speaker 1:Well, you've definitely turned up the heat in your life.
Speaker 1:And with today's issues where our country's headed and the battle between good and evil. It is very real. I hear more and more leaders stating that. It's becoming more obvious by the day, and so I just wanna say thank you for what you're doing, and I hope that our viewers those who are listening to this podcast, would be encouraged to pray through that if they are being asked to serve in this capacity and to follow up on some of the things that you mentioned today.
Speaker 1:And I just want you to know as a leader in our country, you're prayed for and as a brother in the faith, you're prayed for, and I thank you for serving our country and your Lord More importantly, I think, and so I wanna encourage you in your allegiance to Christ and look forward to the journey, because these are exciting times. I believe the period of time and history we live in, this is very exciting to be someone following Jesus Christ and sharing the love of Christ and what we believe in. So, congressman Cloud, michael Cloud, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you back very much, you.