Our discussion peels back the layers of church leadership, revealing its crucial role in fostering accurate doctrinal teaching and guiding congregants in their daily lives. As we confront the shift towards a post-Christian church age in America, the necessity for leaders to ward off heresy and faithfully interpret scripture becomes strikingly apparent. We tackle the real-world challenges pastors face, from overcoming personal insecurities to navigating changing denominational landscapes, offering advice for families in search of a spiritual home that aligns with their values.
In a time where the boundaries often blur, our episode underscores the importance of maintaining alignment with divine authority to avoid spiritual chaos. With Tim and Deanna, we dissect the historical context of the church's role, the nuances of authority as outlined in Biblical principles, and how the church's leadership structure is pivotal in upholding truth. Join us for an engaging exploration that promises to deepen your understanding of church leadership's impact and responsibilities in sustaining life and truth.
Our discussion peels back the layers of church leadership, revealing its crucial role in fostering accurate doctrinal teaching and guiding congregants in their daily lives. As we confront the shift towards a post-Christian church age in America, the necessity for leaders to ward off heresy and faithfully interpret scripture becomes strikingly apparent. We tackle the real-world challenges pastors face, from overcoming personal insecurities to navigating changing denominational landscapes, offering advice for families in search of a spiritual home that aligns with their values.
In a time where the boundaries often blur, our episode underscores the importance of maintaining alignment with divine authority to avoid spiritual chaos. With Tim and Deanna, we dissect the historical context of the church's role, the nuances of authority as outlined in Biblical principles, and how the church's leadership structure is pivotal in upholding truth. Join us for an engaging exploration that promises to deepen your understanding of church leadership's impact and responsibilities in sustaining life and truth.
Hi, I'm Deanna Kinesel, the director of Texas Leadership Summit, and we're with you, with our founder, tim Webb, for another DNA pillar podcast about our pillars and what we stand on here at Texas Leadership Summit.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, excited to talk about our church pillar, something that you probably know a whole lot about.
Speaker 2:Oh, been involved in the church for quite some time.
Speaker 1:yes, so out of all of them, right, there should be a really fun one. So we're going to start out with the main question that we kind of start all of them out with. So you like to say with church, that church sustains life, so I'm just going to let you start right there, okay, yeah, push the passion button, will you?
Speaker 2:So let me clarify something as well For me as a pastor and, I think, for everyday leaders who are Christians involved in the church. We know that everything basically comes out of the church, but for the understanding of where we're engaging in our everyday lives. So there are some who do not serve in the church every day. Specifically, what we're saying is that, with each pillar, this is the area that you typically serve in on a regular daily basis. And so, because some have asked me the question, well, isn't church and everything about the church? You know, yes, absolutely, but we're talking about leadership within the church.
Speaker 2:So whether it be those who are serving full time, those who are bbocational, those who serve in church, leadership, those kind of things. So what do we need to do?
Speaker 1:So we're talking about? Just to clarify real quick so we're talking about paid employees, like different pastors or different positions at the church, but then also like if you lead a small group or you lead a Bible study or you work at some sort of mission, just some sort of church related role that you would be doing, not necessarily a paid position. Right, got it. Yeah, paid, not paid, just making sure everybody's following.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we have a lot of people that serve faithfully in the church builder.
Speaker 1:That are volunteers, yeah that's right and so.
Speaker 2:But when we say the church sustains life, what do we mean by just that term? Sustain means to bear up underneath, to hold to support, as if a main structure building, and so when we talk about the church sustaining life, what we're saying is that the church, in all of its functioning, it requires leadership. Let me just be specific and cut to the chase on this. We know that Jesus commissioned his apostles right and he sent them. He gave them his words. So they had the words of the prophets and they had the words of Christ and all of the authority of Christ sending them out to take the words of Christ and the prophets out into the known world and they were to make disciples, teaching them and everything that he had taught them. And it's handed down. Now we know Paul is going to say to Timothy he's in guard what has been entrusted to you, and so the early leadership of the church would find other leadership to pass on the words of God, the Bible, the scriptures, holy scriptures. And Paul even tells Timothy he wants to come to him. Timothy, serving in Ephesus church at Ephesus, he says I'm wanting to come to you there in Ephesus and I'm paraphrasing. But, however, if I'm not able to make it there for a while, you will have this to understand what life is to be like in the church. And so this sustaining the church, sustaining life if at some point we stop handing off the scriptures, we stop sharing and teaching, then every area of life is going to be impacted by that.
Speaker 2:And so when we talk about sustaining life, we have the evidence in front of us. We talk about this a lot. Failed leadership costs lives, right? Okay? So when the everyday leader in the church is not equipped, empowered by the scriptures and taught and trained, then the functions of the church begins to fall. Now, all of a sudden, when you talk about the church, the church tells us how to live out our lives every day, right. It tells us where the focus is to be, what is to look like and how we address issues in our culture. So that's sustaining life. If we have no church, then life as defined by God will cease. And so then, all of a sudden, we're going. Well, what's this life all?
Speaker 1:about yeah, we're lost, we're lost.
Speaker 2:The blind, you have the blind leading the blind when you look at churches today, and we can talk about this in greater detail later, but I think it's actually our next question. Okay, well, what is that? Yeah?
Speaker 1:So how important is it for church leadership to have the orthodox teaching and understanding of the word right so they can direct their flock accordingly. Well, early on, teach them.
Speaker 2:Early on what we have in scriptures is that Peter's addressing this, paul is addressing this false teaching, and so we want to be vitally aware of sound doctrine. This was the issue over and over. You need to address heresy in the church. And so what they did? They would have a problem, they'd have an issue, and so the epistles the author is writing in response to that problem in the church, and in each one of these we see false teaching. And so if the church is going to understand how to be the church, you've got to have sound doctrine. You got to know the word, or else what you'll find is heresy in the church and believe it or not and some people look at me funny when I make this statement we have in the, I'd say, big C church in general today, the American church. We have more heresy in the church today than ever before.
Speaker 1:I believe it.
Speaker 2:And I truly believe we have moved into a post Christian church age, and what I mean by that a post Christian church age is that pastors and leaders within the church are embracing heresy like never before, and what you're going to find when you see this is then you're going to see the culture driving the church instead of the church driving the culture culture impacts the church rather than the church impacting the culture, and you will cease seeing transformation in the lives of the believer.
Speaker 1:So that's vitally important devastating to even think about. So where would, where would church leaders go to make sure they are getting this orthodox teaching?
Speaker 2:that's a tough one. That's a tough one I.
Speaker 2:If it's so important that we definitely make sure that they know where to get it right, and that's the right one and again on our website We'll have links for that and and Right away one that I'm involved in and teach me the Bible podcast. It's tremendous opportunity that God has opened the store for us on that. That's one resource. But here's the issue, and I think we can all Say we've experienced this. You can have one pastor preach on a passage, have another passive pastor preach on that same passage, and it'd be totally different, correct? You can go to commentaries. You know I've gone to 10 different commentaries as a seminary student and each one of them will have a different view or go in a Different direction. I'm going. Somebody's got to be right. And so what we have to understand is that the Bible is a story From Genesis to Revelation. And how do I know that? Well, I'm glad you asked, because with story there's a beginning and there's an end, and the in between connects all of that. And so at the beginning of the Bible, we have God coming on the scene and right away in the beginning, god. The author doesn't try to explain who God is, it's just a statement as a fact. In the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth, and then it takes off from there and all of creation. And so Well. We need to understand that as we're moving through this story, we see Two things happening. We see the at the fall of man, we see the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman, and we see this enmity, god says as part of the curse, will increase. And as you go through the story, you see this playing out, looking for the Messiah to come and redeem mankind and salvation, and this Messiah promised one. And so, as a, as a way to understand what, I'm starting to get off in the weeds.
Speaker 2:But I want to come back to what you ask. How do you know? And you've got to equip yourself with people who are committed to sound doctrine. So go back. I would say go instead of Recreating or finding someone. This is what Luther tried to do. He tried to reform. He didn't rebel against the church and want to recreate a whole nother church. He said we've got to go back, we got to reform, we got to go back to the beginning. And so that's when we talk about orthodox teaching. I would go to sources, I would go to pastors, I would go to seminaries that support the historical teachings of sound doctrine, orthodox Christianity, and Every student of history, church history knows along the way, there were certain events that happened and we see how the church confronted those events. So nothing's new. Not all of the issues we have today, it's the same stuff that has already been happening in history.
Speaker 2:We just have to be good students to go back when this happened Originally. How did they address it? Right, and what did the church decide? The Orthodox church, biblical sound doctrine teaching on this, and so I think one way to do that is compare the teaching to the teachings of the apostles. What did the apostles believe? And so you've got you've got people today that are saying, well, this is about me. They're looking for application in every passage. How does this apply to me?
Speaker 2:You've heard phrases like this, where someone leading a Bible study will say well, what does that mean to you? Right, it doesn't matter what it means to me. What matters is what did the authors intent and Writing that book or that letter mean? And that's how we. That's the beginning, and so, just like on our Teach Me the Bible podcast, dr David Klingler lays it out if you want to know the Bible, you want to know how to Understand, because the mission of that is the people of God, understanding, knowing the word of God, right? Okay, so we start you off right there step one, step two, and it's simple when we know how to approach God's word. So, again, I want to. I think we're going to continue to put other resources up that will help with that understanding.
Speaker 2:We don't want to just say this and leave people to themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can help direct them. So I've heard you say a lot Right thinking, right response.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is a great one. Okay Serving series. We were just so excited. Right thinking, right response. Well, here's what we know about right thinking. It's not right unless it's defined by God. You know because so in the beginning God created, he created this and he said this is good and he created this good. Then you come along in the story and all of a sudden you see God say it's not good, and you should take special note of that. God is the one who determines what is good and what is bad was good, what is evil? Anything outside of what God defines as good is evil. It's what I call stinking thinking, and so right thinking as defined by what is right, what is righteous in the eyes of God.
Speaker 2:Eve got into a problem. In fact, adam didn't name her, eve until after the fall. So the wife, his wife, his woman, if you will, she starts contemplating the serpents tempting her, and so did God really say that? She questioned what was right? Did God really say that? Well, adam's right there with her and he shows. And let me tell you what God said. And he didn't. And so she began to reason within herself and became the judge, as the serpent said, and be like God. She wanted to be like God and determine for herself what it was good, what is right, what is just, and that's when we had a problem. Now, since that time, we continue to do the same thing Right, right, what is good? What do I say is good?
Speaker 1:What's good for you may not be good for me. How do you feel? How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:So yeah, let's pull our feelings into it, and so right thinking is all rooted in what God defines as right.
Speaker 1:Right thinking has nothing to do with feelings at all.
Speaker 2:Nothing at all Facts. It is what God defines as right, and so then, out of that, as we learn God's word, we grow in that understanding, we understand what is right in the eyes of God, and it becomes a conviction within us. Then, as we've said before, belief drives behavior, and so right thinking gives me the opportunity to respond right.
Speaker 1:Do the right thing Right response, do the right thing.
Speaker 2:Now the problem is we can know right thinking and we can know the right response. The issue is will we?
Speaker 1:do it? Do we choose to do it? Will we do it Right? That's the problem, because that is the hard part. That's the problem. Well, people talk A lot of us know better, but then we don't. You know. Those are the worst mistakes you make. Right? It's like I knew better, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's the whole issue of integrity and character Knowing what is right and then the ability to follow through with doing what is right. That's a person's character on display, and I know some you know men and women that they just struggle with that, because what do we do when no one's looking? And so, as leadership again, empowering everyday leaders, when we talk about right thinking, right response, we want them to have the tools, we want them to be equipped with the right thinking so that they are able to bring forth right responses, the issues of the day and the local community, what they're going on, going on in the church, what's going on in community. God's word is very clear on how we're to live out this life of faith, and so once you know it, you have the ability to respond the right way. That's what we mean by that, simply.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think we're kind of touching on a little bit and talking about the character that we have, but what would you say is the biggest obstacles that church leaders are facing today?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. From a pastor's perspective, I would say courage, fear versus faith. I'm trying to encourage as many pastors as I can to come together and unite under orthodox Christianity, not denomination. Denominations are going by the wayside. They're corrupt. They're becoming more and more corrupt, power hungry individuals who are just striving to keep that power. Now I say that generally. I'm not, I'm not indiditing all leaders within denominations, please.
Speaker 2:So one of the biggest challenges we're facing in leadership today is overcoming our fear. For some reason, at the seminary level, we're equipping pastors with the word. Some are I say that very carefully we're focused on equipping them with the ability to teach, to know and teach the word, but then we don't equip them with the right skill set or the approach of what they're going to experience when they actually get out and start doing church. I mean, think about this. A pastor every day has to face the fact, the reality, that people are gonna come up to him and say pastor, I just love you, you're doing great, hang in there, we love you, we're here for the church, we're gonna be a part of the church, excited to be here, and then one day you look up and they're gone. Abandonment issues I had those as a child, when my biological father left, when I was one. And then God puts me in a role where I'm abandoned every day, every Sunday.
Speaker 1:Every Sunday like who's here, who's not?
Speaker 2:Yeah we're the people you know, and so if you get upset, they just go down the road. Well, there's another church, there's another church, and so I would say, leaders within the church today dealing with their fears, personal fears, versus standing on their faith. This is why we're so passionate about courage at TLS Dealing with that fear fear of abandonment. You're gonna be held accountable for things that are way out of your control, you have no control over. Yet you're gonna be asked to operate as a CEO, as if you can produce these numbers, when the Holy Spirit's the one that draws and convicts, and it's not our job to force people to become Christians. And so there's just all of these issues that leadership faces today that are rooted in this whole decision. Will I stand for my faith and understand that I'm accountable to the King, the head of the church, the Savior, or will I succumb to my fears? So I think for pastors, that's one of the greatest challenges. Other leadership within the church and those involved in the church really, am I gonna make this a way of life or am I gonna make it a matter of convenience?
Speaker 2:Apathy is so huge in the church today, and when you look at the cycle of bondage and this is out there on different websites and just the history of great empires and how in everyday life there are people in bondage and then they come to an understanding of courage and then what is right? And they step out in courage and then they become a free people and then they become safe. And then they become lazy, apathetic and for you know, you look up and they're going right back into bondage and unfortunately, that's where our country is today. We're getting ready to give up freedom for the sake of convenience. We're willing to come under bondage to a government controlled system where the government decides for you, simply because we're apathetic and so- Well, what was it at one of our church pillar events?
Speaker 1:they said you can have courage or you can have comfort, but you can't have both. You can't have both. Yeah, I love that. I thought that was a very good take-aways. I'm like yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, courage and I'm old school and you know courage is not the absence of fear, it's the willingness to saddle up anyway.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And do what is right, and that's why I'm very passionate as well for our leadership in the church today and each one of these pillars. We want to encourage them. We want them to have courage to stand, and I've seen this happen so many times, when one leader steps forward and all of a sudden somebody says, hey, well, if she can do it, if he can do it, I can do it. That's why we're pushing 10%. If we get 10% of the local leadership, 10% of pastors within one community, if they've band together, we can overcome a lot of these obstacles. Yeah, yeah, more will follow.
Speaker 1:So with families, if we're wanting to lead our family well, how would you suggest that one would find the right church to align with?
Speaker 2:Well for Especially this day and age Right. So websites can be deceiving, and so I've had people I really value when people do this to me as a pastor. Make an appointment with the pastor, read the website, read their belief statements, what they believe as a church, what denomination are they affiliated with. That's just the starting point. You want to make sure it's a Bible church, and when I say that, not Bible denomination kind of thing, but they stand on the word of God, they're centrally focused on the word of God. Then ask what they're in there. You review their statement of faith, look at their views of the Bible In the original manuscripts. They believe it's the infallible and errant word of God, that it's God breathed. Begin looking at those things. Then make an appointment with the pastor. That's what I love when people do that. Bring your questions, write down your questions, take them to the pastor. Meet with the pastor. Don't be afraid to ask her hard questions. Call him out on his faith, his statement of faith and what he believes, and so ask him questions about accountability.
Speaker 2:Are you accountable to elders? Are you accountable to the leadership in the church? I do not believe in a church run by committees. I just don't think it's biblical. We're an elder led church. I think those elders should be involved in the overseeing of the church and that pastor needs to be a pastor who submits to his elder body for encouragement, accountability, to make sure the church is following God's word. So ask those questions. Look at how the church is governed. Look at how the church makes decisions. Are they transparent with the budget? There are some pastors who feel like they don't have to tell anyone where the money's going. And then there's some that they feel like they can do this or that and they can lord it over to the people who attend, saying you need to tie, then you have to do this and jump through the hoop. So just really ask those questions. Hold the leadership of the church accountable?
Speaker 1:Well and hold them accountable. So what if the church say you go to, you go and you hear something you don't like Like? How should you handle that?
Speaker 2:Confirm the pastor. What did you mean by that pastor? And this happens to me all the time. I'm questioned almost every day, Not just necessarily because I made a mistake in my sermon, my preaching, but as a pastor. There are people who just wanna know why'd you do that, why are we doing this? And it's just people question all the time because they just wanna know, and it's really innocent many times in that. But what was the question?
Speaker 1:What to do if you don't like what you hear.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Okay, I was getting ready to go down the trail, so definitely don't up and leave. Some people will do that. We had someone waited a whole year before they asked their question.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:And I told this individual husband wasn't there and I just said we could have taken care of this a long time ago. So when you hear something that you don't like first, I think it will just back up and say what's the reason why you don't like it? Is it because you're having a conflict, a crisis of faith, where the pastor is sharing from the Word of God and all of a sudden you find yourself out of alignment?
Speaker 1:Well, and I find that with newer Christians too, I have friends that are new to being saved and they say, well, I went and I really I'm like, okay, maybe you need to be praying and wrestling with why that makes you feel uncomfortable. It's not necessarily because it's wrong. Maybe it's just because of your whole life you believed otherwise, exactly.
Speaker 2:And so the issue that in today's church is typically we want the Word to align with us. We want to create a God in our own image. We want to shift the Word to be more suitable to us in our lifestyle and our personal desires. I'll remind you of what Jeremiah said about the heart, because people will say, well, just follow your heart, or I'm feeling my spirit this. Well, jeremiah said the heart is wicked, it's deceptive.
Speaker 1:When you say deceptive, deceitful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the intent of the sinful nature is to drive you away from God. So you got to ask yourself, you know, is it because my desires and my lifestyle or what I believe is aligning up with scripture, or is it because the pastor went the wrong direction? He's in error, whatever? So we need to first, is it something on me and my personal life that I'm having a conflict with? If so, that's easily to remedy, easy to remedy. So. But then if there's, if there's more to that, then sometimes even with counseling, you may just it may be. I want to understand what you said, pastor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that's good. I didn't even know that. I mean other before coming to this church. I really didn't have direct contact with the pastor ever, you know so, and it also I grew up in really big churches. This is the first small town church I've, you know, been in, so so I really I mean obviously like being able to have access it's in a text.
Speaker 1:What did you mean by that? But you know, I didn't really. I wasn't sure if I was just taking advantage of the fact that I know y'all a little bit more personally than you know past pastors, or if that's definitely something welcomed for everybody, Right.
Speaker 2:Right, and I know each pastor has his own view on how accessible it is to be, whether it's appointment, email or direct contact in the moment. You know I've tried to be an open book, transparent. I want to encourage all of our leadership. Yeah, be transparent. Make sure you're making decisions without anything to hide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good, All right, so I see here the next one is roles of authority. So in our everyday lives, contribute to the church by being able to sustain life for your laughing, Sorry. And also the next step of that is the lack of authority and no respect leaving the church. So kind of bundle that together. Yeah, this is huge.
Speaker 2:As you go through church history, you see, the church was the authority in life. The leadership of the church, the pastors, the bishops, overseers they were the ones that had the access to the word. Most people early on in history, most people didn't know how to read. The Jews were very good about education, very good about oral tradition and teaching and writing their languages and understanding that, and so in church history, though, we see a lot of people who didn't even have the ability to read. So the church had the authority over the body of Christ and they were underneath Christ as the chief shepherd, and so what we have is this authority structure. The Apostle Paul, peter, would address this, submitting to those in authority over you. Now, basically, we have four areas of authority in our everyday lives. You have the authority of the individual. The individual is responsible to this relationship with God. Through faith in Christ, you are to own your choices and you are to confess your sin when you're out of alignment with God's word. We enter into this relationship by faith alone, the grace given to us, faith alone in Christ alone, and so but out of that, we know that I'm responsible for how I respond to God's word. So, the individual authority of the individual. I can't coerce you, I can't compel you, make you do what is right. So you have the authority over your person. There's the authority of the family, and we see God's word, and this is why some people wanted us to have a family pillar. Well, under the church, sustaining life, the church, the Bible, defines what marriage is between one man and one woman. Now, once God defines the relationship, we don't go around looking for well, is this acceptable? Is this acceptable? And so the authority defines it. He doesn't have to tell you about all the other options, he simply says marriage is defined this way. He said family is defined this way. And so you have a mom and a dad and they produce image bears who are scarred by sin. And so what are we going to do about that? If they're going to be image bears, you better get them to Christ, so that's resurrection. They will be true image bears. So but the authority within the family. The father is the leader of the family. The wife submits to his leadership. He's not accountable to God for how she leads out the family. The father is, he's going to be accountable. The husband is, and so we see this structure of authority. Now, when the husband and wife are two cleaving to become one, and the children see this submitting the father, the husband submitting to Christ and loving the wife, their mother, as Christ loved, the church, lays his life down for her. And they see the wife submitting to the leadership of the husband. What are they seeing? The dynamic of Christ and the bride, the church, and so they're getting this front row view of this submitting to authority.
Speaker 2:Now, scripture's very clear. When authority in your life, so say bad dad, bad mom, what do you do? Do you still have to submit any more? You know what Peter said about that. He says if you suffer for doing what is right, you find favor with the Lord, you stay in there, you do everything you can to lead that one to Christ. If you have to use words, okay, but he would say to the wife, by your actions, the inner person, okay, the heart and so. But the children, they submit to the authority of the parents. And we see this structure and I've told our church family you have statistically and these are secular statistics you have the first five years to teach a child to submit to authority. After that it exponentially increases the difficulty, and so that's why it's vitally important that we teach within the family the context of the family.
Speaker 2:Submitting to authority.
Speaker 2:So you've got the authority of individual authority of the family, the authority of the church.
Speaker 2:Well, the church decides through the word of God. This is where the sustaining of life. So if we don't have this structure here, we're not gonna know what it looks like. So, the church, the authority of the church, what does God's word say is true, who gets to teach, who gets to oversee this? And so there's authority within the church, the structures, the roles there, the leadership. But then you have the authority of the government and the call of God on the government, and scripture is very clear about government, and so there's a sitting submitting to the authority of the government, and so there are issues there. And so when these get out of whack so in other words, when the government overreaches into the family, we've got problems. Or when the family tries to extend their authority over into the government, we've got problems, and so we gotta stay in our lanes.
Speaker 2:When it comes to the authority, what does God's word say about these structures within our church and family and marriage, and so that's one. I don't know if I answered your question specifically, but this submitting to authority. We know that when we have failed leadership, when I say failed, leadership costs lives, when the leadership does not submit to the authority of God through the power and the authority of the word, we're going to cost lives. In other words, people are gonna become lost, they're not going nowhere to go, what to do, how to live, and it goes on and on. So this is how we're sustaining life, as in the church. Sustained, this is what I mean by that, and so it undergirds that very definition and we need to know our definitions that sustained. To sustain means to uphold, bear from underneath, as if a foundation supporting a structure, the church lays the foundation for all of these relationships and sustains life, enabling it to perpetuate, to go on and on, generation after generation.
Speaker 1:Well that I think that's a good place to wrap it up. Do you have anything you want to make sure is mentioned that we didn't address.
Speaker 2:I just want to encourage our everyday leaders. Okay, we want to empower them. I want to encourage them to stand firm in your faith. We serve the savior.
Speaker 2:I've had people say don't you ever want to do something else, or don't you want to work for someone else? Let me explain this. When you're tapped by God to serve the king of kings and Lord of lords, everything else is far below. And now it's not an easy life. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life is to try to serve as a pastor, be a minister. I'm in my 36 year ministry and it is so hard because you have to follow that example of Christ and a lot of times you have to keep your mouth shut and just keep going. And so I want to encourage our everyday leaders in the church pillar. The word of God will empower you. The Holy Spirit will give you strength. Endure well, Remember who you're serving. You're serving Christ, and how that's fleshed out is by serving the people of God and the people in your community. So it's a great thing to be a part of. Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. So thank y'all for joining in and listening. We're gonna have links on our website For more information. If you don't see the links that you're looking for, definitely reach out to the support at TexasLeadershipSummitcom, and we'll also be putting out more small little podcast about our DNA and all of our pillars. If you have questions, let us know. We'll try to address them. That would be fun and we look forward to you tuning in again soon. Tracing.