In this episode, Aisha interviews Sandra Auchter, the Director of National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency Denver. Sandra shares her inspiring career path, starting as an imagery analyst and working her way up to become a senior executive in the intelligence community. They also discuss imposter syndrome, finding your voice, and the importance of attending small, intimate events for young career professionals. Sandra highlights the diverse career opportunities at NGA, emphasizing the need for expertise in various fields. The conversation ends with a discussion on resilience and mindfulness.
In this episode, Aisha interviews Sandra Auchter, the Director of National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency Denver. Sandra shares her inspiring career path, starting as an imagery analyst and working her way up to become a senior executive in the intelligence community. They also discuss imposter syndrome, finding your voice, and the importance of attending small, intimate events for young career professionals. Sandra highlights the diverse career opportunities at NGA, emphasizing the need for expertise in various fields. The conversation ends with a discussion on resilience and mindfulness.
Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. I am here today with Sandra, who is the director of NGA Denver. Welcome. And I'll ask you to introduce yourself. Sandra Octor, director of NGA Denver. I've been with the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency for a little over 20 years and started as an analyst here in DC, an imagery analyst a long time ago. And then. Moved up over the last couple of years to become a senior executive within the intelligence community, and I'm super happy to be here. Okay, so you gave a really inspiring talk this morning. Can you tell us a little bit more about your career path? So as I said, I started out as an And what's interesting, and I hadn't mentioned it before, is that when I got the job, I actually didn't know what I was going to be doing. Cause imagery analyst. There was no Google Earth, you know, anything sort of geospatial that would give me an idea of what the kind of work I'd be doing. So, when I came in, I knew I'd be working the, you know, region that I really loved, which was Africa, but I had no idea what I'd be doing. And so to see the evolution of GIS and geospatial information, it's ubiquitous now, but it was something that I had to learn. We had a training program for four months that of the kind of work that I'd be able to do. So to see professionals like you doing some of the things that I had to, to, to learn about 20 some years ago was really exciting. Okay, well, thank you, I feel. Alright, so this morning you said something that resonated with me. I am in a lot of GIS spaces with people who don't look like me. And you mentioned imposter syndrome and the isolation that one can sometimes feel. How did you overcome it? It took a lot of effort and time, and I think one of the things, and even Tony kind of talked about it Fraser, as well, was you know, recognizing that you're the expert in the room I remember doing a briefing at headquarters and it was like all of these really experienced men with a bunch of titles after their names sitting around this big oak table. And I had to go in and brief them one day. And I felt so small and just insignificant. And then I remembered what one of my mentors told me and it's like, you know, more than anybody in this room, they, they are relying on you to provide them information so that they can make decisions. And it was true, especially in our business where I knew my stuff inside and out and they were relying on me to provide expertise so that they could make decisions and write reports, et cetera. And I have to keep reminding myself of that. It's something that every single time, it doesn't go away, it's just one of those things that you have to keep reinforcing within yourselves, like, you know, I get asked to do speaking engagements, and I'm like, am I qualified to talk about, one of them was on imposter syndrome, and I was like, I felt it so many times, I'm like, I'm not qualified to talk about it, and you just need to really get over that. There are experiences that that you have that you can share with people that is going to be of benefit, and, um, you know, it's important to make sure that You have your voice. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Clinton and I, we talk about this a lot in being able to find your voice and lean into your voice. And for a lot of black women, our voices are typically not always heard, and it's not always the loudest voice in the room. Yeah. Until it almost feels like you're given permission. Yeah. To be the loudest voice in the room. Now, to be perfectly honest and transparent, I've leaned into that. Mm-Hmm.. So things like this interview. Scary! I know, but isn't it great when you do scary things that it's where you grow the most, right? You do. And I, you know, I, the other thing that I think is important for me, for me to get over my imposter syndrome is recognizing that there are other people that are looking at you all the time and you're giving them permission to be able to have a voice as well. And so if I'm not speaking up, they're not given the opportunity to do it themselves, to get that permission that you were just talking about. Yes, yes. Okay, so this is a small, intimate event. Sometimes when people think of events and conferences, they think of the large, thousands of people. This is small, intimate. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of attending events like this to young career professionals? So, I think one of the things that's really important is Getting a network and being able to feel comfortable in all types of environments. And I think the ability to be able to connect with people on a one on one basis to really hear some of their stories that you cannot do at a large event. Is extremely important. So you got to be able to navigate in both of those areas, but being able to really have an opportunity to talk to peers, talk to people that are in your you know, your mission areas and the things that you're working, getting that expertise, right? Always learning. One of the reasons that I really want to spend time here is I've been in this business for 20 some years, but there's still so much that I don't know about, right? And being able to make sure that I have that continuous learning and being an expert in your field. I cannot be truly an expert in my field if I don't have the breadth of experience. And so for young professionals, I think it's really important to go to the big conferences. But you know, get as much as out of there as you, as you can, but having the opportunity to connect with people more individually is, is just as important. Yes. You are speaking to my soul. Okay. So, since we are still having the conversation about young career professionals, what types of careers can a young person find at NGA? So it's interesting. My niece has just graduated at 18. She's like this phenomenal, crazy person from University of Maryland College Park. And she's doing her master's now. She'll be finished with her master's and she'll, she won't even be 20. She can't even drink, right? And she, but she's doing business, right? She's following in her mommy's footsteps and getting her, an MBA. And there are lots of different fields. I'm an analyst. I worked intelligence analysis for the longest time. I did, I manage those teams as well. But there's a business to our business, right? Where you have Folks who understand finance, acquisition, you know, all of those things that enable the core business to actually happen are, are just as important, right? We have folks that are working on our staff to make sure that You know, people get paid on time that you know, that, that we're, we're taking care of people while they're taking care of the mission. And so we often recruit for GIS professionals, for data scientists. There's a lot going on in the STEM field. So math and geodesists, all of those things are super important, but you can be a communications major and come in. We definitely need. To have that happen as well. We have folks that are working legislative affairs that are a part of our, our team. We have folks that are developers, so they're writing code as well. We have you know, folks in finance, folks in security. So all of those things make up our, our agency and our business. So just about any major that you have, there's, there's room for you. And I tell people also that you know, you can't, you don't have to just stay in one field. I have folks who started out in the same area that I did that are now doing policy for, for us, or, you know, transition to, you know you know, other, other fields and not staying in that as well. So there's an opportunity to have a breadth of experience within a career within the IC. And so you don't, if you get tired of one thing, you don't have to leave the agency. You can transition and do other things as well. So I tell people there's, there's lots of different opportunities for us. All right. You hear that young people take advantage. Okay. Last two questions. Probably the two hardest questions. All right. Ready? Resilience or resistance? Or both. So I really like both of them, but I think resilience is super, super important. I think you know, during the COVID years, which was not too long ago people being able to transition and, and, and not have the same kind of day to day that they had before, that was a huge shift for people. And then, you know, being able to, to deal with co workers who were getting sick or, you know, being out of the office and working at home. And what are those things that you needed to do in order for you to be able to transition really easily is important. I think resilience is part of that. I try to make sure that I eat really well, I drink lots of water you know, make sure that you're hydrated. I meditate every single day just ten minutes a day, just to get your mind right, and it's especially important if you're, you're going out there, it's traffic, there's a lot that's happening you know, when I go to work, there's a lot of demands on your time, you've got to be present, you've got to be paying attention it's funny I think about when I was an analyst and I could just sit in the background and I saw all the managers managing and doing all this, and they, and I was like, why do they need all this staff? And what, and it's because they have to think about. and make decisions, right? About a million different things that I was just not aware of and now I'm in this position and I'm going wow, I really do need to pay attention to what everybody's saying, I need to ask pertinent questions they're relying on me to bring my best self to work every single day and so to the extent that I get some sleep, I have to make sure that I get, you know try to get, you know, 6 7 hours of sleep, which is still not enough. But all of those things, I think, feed into resilience so that you can be your best self, so you can be your best self for your co workers and for the people that really depend on you. So I would take resilience over resistance. Well, I will tell you. Yeah, I needed, I needed the, the resilience this week. So, you know, the team that's here working this event, we've, we've come from near and far. Mm-Hmm., I I am in Virginia. I've got two little ones. I'm a single mom, so traveling in. Yeah. And it sounds like a theme that ran through kind of what you consider your self-care routine. Mm-Hmm. has been mindfulness and making sure that you have what you need in the moment. And as a parent, and especially this week, those have been my mantras for these last two days. I needed to stay in the moment because regardless of what I'm doing here, I've got two little people who need to eat, they need to sleep. And so that is still my job when I turn off here. And so, you know, when you talk about rest, You take for granted what it means to be on and to be present for every room that you step into. I went to bed, my entire household went to bed at 7. 30 last night. Yes. Yes. And then I was up at two o'clock putting together the rest of, preparing for the rest of my panels today and then went back to sleep. But that's the type of dedication and resilience, you know, mindfulness all flows together. So 730 bedtime. Yeah. That's a, that's a luxury. It is a luxury. It's funny cause I, you know we went to a concert the other day, Lauryn Hill. So she was supposed to start at 730 and you know, they, we were talking to the to, to, to the guy selling his drinks and he's like, Oh, they sounded, it did sound check and it sounded really good and I thought, okay, it's, it's a, it's a school night if she does not show up or if she's late, I'm going to be really tired in the morning. I got to go to work in the morning. She came on about 940, but she at least showed up. Right. But I was like, this is way past my bedtime. And, I, you know, I, but I was doing it for Lauryn Hill, but but I do try to get to bed, you know, at a, at a decent hour. I'm not a night owl at all. So good for you. Yes. Yes. Okay. And the, by far the hardest question, given your vast knowledge and your career experience, if we were to encounter the zombie apocalypse today, how would you plan to survive it? So I would make sure that I had up-to-date maps. I would assume that we did not have the connectivity that we needed to have, so I would have a tool mm-Hmm that would be able to provide me update up-to-date information. If I had information also about the, the pockets of areas where there were was infection that I could avoid could geospatial information provides you all kinds of context that you're gonna need to survive. I'm also going to make sure that the people that, you know, actually have the kinds of skills, survival skills that I don't have I'm a really good manager. I don't know if that's going to help me in the zombie apocalypse, right? I need somebody who can defend themselves, somebody who's got medical expertise, etc. So I'm looking for all of those people as well so that I can partner with them. Having the right people in the room. Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Well, well, with all the maps and everything, I'm coming to Denver. I've got a garden. We're saving seeds. We're bringing our seeds. Yes. We're going to, I'm telling you, you need all of those things. Definitely. All right. Well, Sandra, thank you for taking some time to have this conversation with me. And thank you for joining us here during your geography week. Awesome. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Louberts, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room and to the Northstar team. Thank you. Shakonda, Raisha, Clinton. Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. 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