In this episode of North Star Gaze, Aisha interviews Skye, a GIS professional with a background in graphic design and user experience. They discuss the importance of representation in the GIS industry, the power of maps in communities, and the need for diversity in the field. Skye also shares their experiences with imposter syndrome and their connection to North Star. They highlight the need to use mapping as a tool for equality, resistance, and progress. Additionally, they discuss the significance of ethical practices in the GIS industry and ways to assess a company's commitment to diversity.
In this episode of North Star Gaze, Aisha interviews Skye, a GIS professional with a background in graphic design and user experience. They discuss the importance of representation in the GIS industry, the power of maps in communities, and the need for diversity in the field. Skye also shares their experiences with imposter syndrome and their connection to North Star. They highlight the need to use mapping as a tool for equality, resistance, and progress. Additionally, they discuss the significance of ethical practices in the GIS industry and ways to assess a company's commitment to diversity.
Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. Hi everybody, I am here today with a good friend to North Star, Sky, and I am, we're just coming off the heels of the 2023 Homecoming event, and I'm excited for this conversation. And I'm going to turn the mic over to Skye to ask you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about how you found GIS. Awesome. Hi folks, I'm Skye, and I use they them pronouns. I have been in the GIS field for about eight years now, and I would say that I somewhat slipped into JS, into mapping. I found myself here after coming in with a visual design background and was trained as a graphic designer, came in my first job in The GIS field was to make icons and illustrations, but mostly icons that represented the tools and the functions in a mapping application. So I got to know kind of the nitty gritty really specific functions of some really heavy lifting mapping functionality or for some more generic accessible mapping applications for an everyday person who's not even a professional at GIS. Then in the last couple of years, I have been focusing more on user interface design and user experience design. The design system that I manage or I manage with a team is for primarily for mapping applications. Although it does really serve any type of application. So I would say I don't have a super close relationship with mapping and I'm not necessarily trained in mapping, but I would say I'm mapping adjacent. I work with a lot of folks who map and the GIS experts. I'm, I'm surrounded by it, so I probably have a bit more exposure than perhaps the average person. But I myself have lots to learn about GIS and mapping still. that's, Professionally, outside of work, I have kind of found myself surrounded by mapping as well. So, I spend a lot of time with folks who study and participate in land restoration, and native plant habitats, and urban farming, and all of those also really have aspects of GIS as well. And a few of my friends are working on getting a degree in GIS in those fields, which was really particularly exciting. For me to find out because entering into this industry, I just didn't see my community, right? I assumed that this industry really wasn't for us. And I was delighted, like, just delighted when I just casually found it, found out that some of my friends and my people in my, like, immediate community were familiar with GIS and were doing their own mapping. I was just like, wait, these two worlds are colliding. What? This is amazing. So I. I'm really interested to come at mapping from that perspective as well, because I'll practice GIS in that world. I really am interested in land restoration myself, and I'm slowly learning more about it and getting more exposed to it. So that's my background. Okay, so since you mentioned not thinking that the GIS field was for you, but have gone on to exist in it for the last eight years, have you ever experienced imposter syndrome? Every day. Absolutely. Yeah. And How do you navigate it or how have you overcome it? I think every day is a different journey and I'm not always good at it, but I've come to realize that my perspective is invaluable and That because the industry has decided to limit who their audience is and who they, they consider valuable to serve. I think it's really limited the industry itself and its potential is very capped at that. Right. And I think I'm just waking up to this. It took a long time, but first realizing that whether or not we and our communities are represented in the world of GIS and mapping, the first step is realizing that maps deeply affect us in our communities. And kind of learning the specifics of that and like learning that experientially, I think is important. So we turn that into okay, so how is it some of the most obvious ones are like, of course, because of redlining, or having to cross borders or borders crossing us, like, there are immediate connections that all of us have to mapping, right? And tapping into those. And then you realize, oh, like, we have connection to this thing that we didn't know that we have, and therefore we have something to offer and if the powers in the GIS industry I've always used mapping, but we've only seen it to be used to, have control over people or enforce control or control over people and land, right? To objectify land. Then we have very few examples of what it looks like to use mapping for anything else. But our imaginations Are what is missing, right? So we know what it looks like to have maps used to oppress, but what does it look like to have maps used to be a form of equality, resistance, progress? So, actually, I recently came into contact with, who is now one of my favorite geographers and her name is Linda Kiki Vish, and she said, The map is not inherently good or bad. It is a tool. It depends on how we deploy it. Just how it can be an art of war, it can also be the art of resistance. And I think that was really powerful for me to hear, because if we see maps only being used one way, it's within the imaginations of, people who already have power, then then I think it's really hard to believe that, like, maps can be a force of good and maps can be used against that power and to share power. So anyways, a long winded way of answering your question is that, like, first realizing that maps affect me and my community, then realizing that Yes, we have experiences and relationships to MAP, and therefore we have things to offer of how MAPs can be used differently. Oh, your response was so, I'm sitting here shaking my head because I think you answered two questions in one. One is how do you navigate the imposter syndrome that, ends up being foisted onto you, And then the impact that maps have on our communities, right? Because I think we're seeing this. clash happening with, what are you doing with my data? And yet anytime when I want to access any digital functionality, I must give you access to my data, right? So what's happening with it? And the same happens in the mapping world. Because maps have been used as a tool of oppression, historically, how do we get people to now trust not just the maps, but the map makers with their vital Most vital information, right? And so we're starting to kind of see this push and pull with people asking, what are you going to do with my data? What are you going to do with my XY coordinates? What are you going to do with my location based information, right? And so I think that's something I just want to stick a pin in and pause so that people understand the significance that your work has impact, and it has impact on real lives and real communities, and there's is ethics. that need to be deployed as we are creating and deploying maps. So I'm going to pause there and let that sink in for a second. So Skye, every time we do something with Northstar, I think of you and I get a warm feeling. So what is your connection to Northstar? Oh, that's so sweet. Because I have the same feeling with y'all. I am just so proud with everything that y'all have done, and I'm so glad to have been a part of it early on. It's the thing that I'm most proud of in my JS career. It's the people that I want to be connected with, the people that are doing JS work that I believe in. And my connection with North Star is I don't remember who introduced me. I think I heard the name around and I slowly but surely found myself getting involved with ERGs, Employee Resource Groups, and I met some of really close friends there, and I heard of the group Northstar, and immediately was super interested, and someone reached out to me to create a logo. So I jumped at it. I was like, absolutely. I did not feel like if I'm not super confident in my mapping I have abilities now, I definitely wasn't confident in any mapping abilities back then. Right. So the fact that I could offer a skill of design to Through that to y'all was so exciting. So that's still my preferred way of being able to, to offer support is through design and started to make connections there. And yeah, here we are some lifelong friends. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your work. Thank you for your support. Thank you for your presence as a present. Okay. All right. So North Star's mission emphasizes increasing representation in geo fields. Why do you believe that this is essential to GIS roles, to the GIS industry, to the GIS discipline? Yeah, I think that We started to talk on it earlier. I think that the GIS field is, all this has had a history of struggling to connect with people that help people understand why it is powerful. And I think that's because it largely focuses on not everyday people. And so it largely focuses on like people who already know how powerful mapping is. And I think that. If I guess what my hope is, is that people who have historically been kept out of mapping, and the people who have never been a part of what it means to map our world, oppress people, colonize people the people of the below, as Linda, who I mentioned earlier, would simply put it. I hope that we organize around not achieving a seat at the GIS table, but making the table obsolete. Which would mean sharing the power of mapping directly with the people most affected by mapping, and those people are generally the people with the least access to the technology and for whose interest the technology has been used for the least as well. So taking mapping to the people directly is what I would love to see, and I think that will actually reinvigorate GIS and mapping as a field. Because right now it is so, so bound by the really small community that understands how powerful mapping is. And maybe that's by design, maybe having a small people know how powerful it is, keeps the power in one place. So I think we also can remember that we have mapped our worlds. So Indigenous peoples our history of abolition have needed to understand maps and have known how to map our world. And we have the strongest connection to the land and we can nurture that connection to mapping land again by honoring lands and not objectifying it. And that's what I think that we bring to the field. And that's what it absolutely needs is a different relationship to what we are mapping and not to objectify it, but to honor it. And that's what makes us good mappers. Oh, I love that. I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay, so you touched on a few things here. In particular, in the geosphere, the geo, the GIS world, we have a lot of people who consider themselves do gooders, even though the output and products of their work might not do good for some communities. So when we hear of different organizations, different companies, different groups who state that they've made a commitment to diversity, what is your litmus test? for assessing the validity in that statement and that commitment to make sure it's not just words on the screen or words on paper. Yeah, Money speaks the loudest most of the time. So how are you putting money towards those things that you say that you are supporting? And I always love to talk to the people who are most affected by those issues if you have the ability to. So if you can talk to the people like, in the company that's always, I mean, you have to understand, like How that conversation is being filtered, of course, but talking to people the most affected people understanding how their employee resource groups work are people compensated for their investment in those or those purely volunteer? And how is the company challenging. And moving barriers to map things of interest for people who are most oppressed by maps. So what type of projects are taking up most of your time? What type of projects are getting the most resources? I think everyone has like, one off projects that they like to highlight as a, to exemplify what persona they want to put out into the world. But is that a typical project? Is that a one off? Or is that the thing that you are putting most of your money towards? And I think that will show more priorities for folks. And, of course, like, who are you paying more? And, I think those are the first, or those are the main things that come to minds right now. Yeah, so I think for me, in this age of social media and all things digital, I go for the sources. It's out there. Like, if you look closely, you see what gets highlighted, what gets celebrated, who gets celebrated. I will mosey my little fingers onto the Board of Directors page to see the public facing managers. And like you said, From an internal perspective, I do information interviews kind of across the, industry, and I'm finding out how, how good is a company at removing those barriers, right? I had a conversation once with someone who was, where someone was like, oh, you know, we're getting a bunch of old white men. And I said, well, if you're looking for diversity, you need to look for tenure and not title because you might not ever find that diversity that you're looking for if you understand institutional and structural racism or biases and things of that nature. So I go to anything that's public facing and I see who you're lifting up and then I talk to people who actually work there. I think. Post 2020, a lot of people camera shy or, really suspect with the rolling back of diversity initiatives as if a diverse workforce means a workforce that is lacking Thanks for your time. and quality or value when it is the exact opposite. That's where innovation stems from, but I'm never going to be one to try to make a business case for why I should exist in spaces. So, so, so thank you for that. Okay. Resilience or resistance or both? Which is most important to you? Girl, you can't have one without the other. How am I supposed to choose between those two? Man, I think those that resist know that resilience is necessary. And true, true resistance is not a flare up. It's not a one time thing. It is a lifestyle. It is a commitment. It is something that we embody a saying in the trans community is my existence is resistance, and I think that that speaks to both, and something that I resonate a lot with is that my existence as myself and my connectedness to who I am, who we are. I am because we are is resistance in and of itself, and it. As a commitment to the long haul. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of the Bayard Rustin story. I I've watched, I've watched his story in a number of different forms and, peaceful resistance, and the resilience. that it took to be able to lead a non violent movement. it sits with me. We tease apart the different parts of the story as North Star so that we, we look at the mistakes of, certain movements and our, attempts, our goals to not. create or repeat those mistakes. So I'm in a very reflective space in my life. And, and, and you're a part of that story, Sky. okay, last, toughest question if you found yourself In the zombie apocalypse, if it happened right now, how would you use your vast array of graphic design skills and GIS skills to survive the zombie apocalypse? Oh man, well, I think that when you say zombie apocalypse, the first thing that comes to mind is actually knowledge of plants and knowledge of seeds and general resourcefulness. I think that My graphic design, a skill that has loosely been cultivated through graphic design for me has been how to do more with less. So how to work well within, like, really really strict constraints. I think that's where creativity and problem solving thrives. It's not when you have free reign on everything. It's when you have really defined constraints. So, in times of crisis, like an apocalypse, you have very little to work with, tons of constraints. So, bringing that skill to the forefront, I would say, being resourceful and being able to imagine using things for something that it wasn't intended to be used for. How can you reinvent the usefulness of an object and then knowing how to plant seeds, how to grow food that you can actually eat. It's super useful and I think the JAS being able to have spatial awareness and being able to to use that to better understand the land is so helpful. I think that apocalypse or not, like, having an awareness of place and of you know mapping out what is close to you and having a connection to that is so, so, so helpful and so useful and important. So yeah, I'm ready. Let's go. You have an answer to that, Aisha, as well? Yes, I do. I do. So I love what you said. One thing resonated with me in particular is the constraints and lack of resources feels innovation. And so, I have answered this question a number of times over the course of the season, and I would intentionally seek out marginalized communities who know how to do more with less. And you're talking about gardening and growing your food, you were speaking to my soul there. Okay, so that's my answer to that question, so thank you for coming on the North Star Gaze, and thank you for sharing your story with us. Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it, Aisha. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Louberts, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room and to the Northstar team. Thank you. Shakonda, Raisha, Clinton. Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. To learn more about North Star GIS, Check us out at north star of gis.org and on Facebook or Instagram at GIS North Star. If you'd like to support this podcast and North Star of gis, consider donating at North star of gis.org/donate or to sponsor this podcast, email podcast at north star of gis.org. You've been listening to the North Star Gaze.