In this episode of GAZE, Aisha interviews Cari Harris about her work with HEJTT, the HBCU Environmental Justice Technical Team. Cari shares her journey into the field of environmental justice and GIS, the mission of HEJTT, and the importance of diversity in the GIS space. She also highlights the value of collaboration between different generations and the power of resilience. Plus Cari recommends a must-read book.
The HEJTT is led by Dr. David Padgett with support of Dr. Reginald Archer of Tennessee State University, Dr. Tony Graham, retired from North Carolina A&T University, and Ms. Pamela Bingham (consultant). From Morgan State University are economists Dr. Linda Loubert and Ms. Cari Harris. Leading the development and GIS efforts is Dr. Paul Robinson from Charles Drew School of Medicine and Science.
In this episode of GAZE, Aisha interviews Cari Harris about her work with HEJTT, the HBCU Environmental Justice Technical Team. Cari shares her journey into the field of environmental justice and GIS, the mission of HEJTT, and the importance of diversity in the GIS space. She also highlights the value of collaboration between different generations and the power of resilience. Plus Cari recommends a must-read book.
The HEJTT is led by Dr. David Padgett with support of Dr. Reginald Archer of Tennessee State University, Dr. Tony Graham, retired from North Carolina A&T University, and Ms. Pamela Bingham (consultant). From Morgan State University are economists Dr. Linda Loubert and Ms. Cari Harris. Leading the development and GIS efforts is Dr. Paul Robinson from Charles Drew School of Medicine and Science.
Be Black. Be Bold. Be Innovative. Show the World Equitable Geo. We're coming together as a collective to celebrate people of African descent, the diaspora, and talking about geospatial equity and justice. You're listening to The North Star Gaze, a podcast with intimate stories from geoluminaries. hi, everybody. I'm here with Karee Harris. And we just wrapped up her presentation from the Homecoming event. And so, I would like to take a few minutes and get to know Karee by asking Karee to introduce herself and then introduce her topic. Hi everyone, my name is Karee. Really excited to be here, really excited for the North Star Homecoming Conference. we Just did a presentation on Our team, which is HEGET, HPCU Environmental Justice Technical Team. And we provide GIS and technical support to the environmental justice community across the nation. And so we're going to be talking a little bit about that today, how the team got developed and established and what we're working on, as well as what we plan to do in the future. All right. And so what drew you to the Homecoming event? So Howard University is always a good time. So we heard it was at Howard. We're going to have an amazing time at Howard. But also having gone to the Esri User Conference for the first time in July in San Diego, it kind of changed my perspective on really what this whole world of GIS was about, and also having the fortunate opportunity to be involved with North Star at the conference and seeing So when I saw all of the different panels and speaking engagements that the organization within this huge Esri organization had, it really made me want to attend the conference, but also we were lucky enough to get a chance to present at the conference as well. All right, nice, nice. So you brought up some really interesting topics during your conversation. But first, could you explain to us a little bit about the background for the research and the work that HEGIT does? Yeah, of course. So. Long story short, in a nutshell, there was an executive order passed by the Biden administration called Justice 40, and ultimately what that executive order does is it says that 40 percent of all federal benefits in the environmental space and climate space need to be allocated toward disadvantaged communities, and so the executive order. GIS experts that I work with who've been in the environmental justice movement for decades saw that kind of caveat and language in that policy as something that could be controversial. And so, given their expertise, they use their GIS experience and web application development experience to advocate for communities that they thought would be kinda left out of that policy. And so, of course the team has worked with organizations such as the Bullard Center, the Deep South Center. Who are founded by Dr. Beverly Wright and Dr. Robert Bullard, who also advised the President as it pertains to the Justice 40 Executive Order. And we just have been under the leadership of those two individuals and organizations to develop technical solutions and provide technical assistance to environmental justice organizations who've been in this field or been doing this advocacy work for decades, given now there's going to be funding billions of dollars of funding allocated to their causes. All right. And so can you tell me a little bit about how you got involved in the project? So what has been your career path in environmental justice and the GIS field? Yeah. So I think it's really funny. This story because, Dr. Lynn Dewey Bear, an economist at Morgan State University her and I are really close. She's, she was the chair of the economics department when I went to Morgan, and so she's mentored me in my economic career since I was an undergrad. She called me one day and she asked, Hey, do you know Python? And I knew what Python was because I've been in the project management space for a while now, but I don't code in Python. So of course my curious self asked her no, I don't know Python or like I don't code in Python, but what is it that you're trying to do? And so then she went on to tell me that a colleague of hers named Dr. David Padgett was looking to develop an application and he needed someone who knew how to code in Python in order to develop the application. And he's looking to develop an application to support environmental justice communities. And so it immediately grabbed my attention and being kind of the problem solver and like a troubleshooter that I am, I got to thinking and I had a few friends in the development space. And so I said I might know someone. And so, when I said that, I said, we've been on the phone for hours at this point, talking about the project, but I said, let me call you back, let me call him, see if he's interested. And so I ended up making a few calls, um, one of my friends was interested in being a developer on the project and coding, and from there, we kind of took off as this team that would go on to develop web applications in an Azure based environment. All surrounding this Justice fourty Executive Order ultimately supporting environmental justice communities and providing technical assistance for environmental policy. All right. And so at this point, had you been working with GIS? Or is it just the Python portion of GIS? So I'd taken a GIS class at Morgan State University and Dr. Linda Loubert was the teacher of the class. But other than that, I hadn't worked with GIS at all in my career. So this would be a full circle moment, not just from college, having taken her class, but also a full circle moment from high school. Because my high school was actually called Western School of Technology and Environmental Science, and so I did have a lot of environmental science classes when I was in high school, and then I also I did an internship with NOAA up in Woods Hole, and so I was very kind of interconnected in the environmental science marine biology sector, so it's really a full circle moment for me being involved with this team and doing this work because it's kind of come to me a little bit throughout my academic career, but actually being in it as an adult working with, again, people who are super tenured in this industry is a blessing. Yeah, yeah, so your, your evolution and your finding GIS was similar to mine. I had not heard about it until I got to college, and then I stumbled upon it by taking one class, and so I, I love the fact that For young people, all it takes is one class and then it's just like, I'm in, right? And so, okay, so kind of following that idea, that thought process, you mentioned some of the, I call it the old guard in GIS. These are names that I have heard of, time and time again. People like to get on platforms and say, if you see it, you can be it. But then when we look on, conference stages, we don't see it. And so it's almost like, can I actually be it? And so when we talk about the people who are doing GIS with brown faces who look like us, who are those people? So I would definitely say every single person on my team who's been a GIS expert for the last couple of decades. are all people that I look to for what's coming and what's next in GIS. And they're also inspirations for myself and other younger members of my team to be able to know that it's possible to not only do GIS and understand GIS, but to make a career of GIS. I would love to mention, like I mentioned, Dr. Linda LeBair, Dr. David A. Padgett, Dr. Reginald Archer, Dr. Tony Graham, Dr. Paul Robinson there's Ms. Pamela Bingham. Those are all individuals who I know are making an impact, not only in their everyday, day to day jobs, but they're also making an impact across society and for communities using this tool called GIF. Okay. And so within the context and framework of that environment, you're working under people who look like you, people who are well tenured, well versed in environmental justice and GIS. Did you ever experience a sense of imposter syndrome or did you ever experience any type of discomfort or, or dumbing down of what you could potentially do? I think that's a great question. I definitely came into this group as And to this day, I'm the youngest person on the team with a specific role. So I'm project manager. As of this year, I'm program manager. And my role is super, super unique. If anyone works with project managers, they know that a project manager kind of does most of the administrative work on the team, helps. It's to negotiate and manage the budget also negotiate and manage contracts, but then also kind of has this unique analyst component to its role where it supports all the highly sophisticated members of the team. So I can't say that I personally have ever kind of felt like I didn't belong or like who am I to be working with these people, because in a lot of ways. A project manager is a servant to the team and I always see my role as someone who's doing the things that these sophisticated individuals don't have time to do and that they shouldn't spend their time doing. And then I also get a chance to learn from them while we're undergoing projects and I've become very well versed in GIS as well as very well versed in the Environmental justice space. And a funny story is when I first met Dr. Willard, who is like, you know, super, super, um, like the godfather of environmental justice. Exactly. So when you mentioned environmental justice, he is probably going to be talked about soon after, right? When I first met him I had never seen him before. And so we had talked about him all the time and, you know, I'd heard his voice, but I'd never seen him before. So when I had walked over to him and Dr. Padgett, I was just talking to them, you know, talking to them like I would talk to anyone, super humble and just super excited to be where we are. This is at the 2022 HBCU Climate Change Conference. And so, like I would ask anyone, I just said, Hey, what do you do in this space? And he, I can't remember what he said, but all I remember is Dr. Padgett's face because he was just like, Oh, wait a minute. I don't think I've made a proper introduction. You don't know who, you don't know who this is. And so he was like, Oh, this is Dr. Robert Bullard. And when he said his name, I was just like, Oh, wow, okay. Yeah, I should, that's probably the one time where I was just like, yeah, you're, you need to, you need to get up to speed because how do you not know who this celebrity is basically standing in front of you? And so that was super cool. He was super humble though. Like he didn't even correct me. He just, he just answered my question on like, with like a one sentence response on what he does, you know, super humble and downplaying it. And Dr. Padgett was like You're embarrassing me, basically. No, but you know what? One piece of advice I would say is keep that, right? Because I think we put up so many walls between us and, and those who have the knowledge, right? That when we get in front of them, we're almost afraid to speak, ask the questions. But I would say if, if I have two little kids and I'm trying to raise them to kind of, you know, get comfortable leaning into the moment and asking your questions. Like if you're nine, ask the question. If you're 50, ask the question. If you're 34, ask the question. And I think that once you take down the barriers, sometimes they're in our heads and sometimes they're in other people's heads, but once you take down the barriers, you ask the questions and you're engaged and you're in that moment and it leaves such a lasting impression. And so okay. So, continuing on with that line of questioning. So, I'm going to assume that you're in this next generation of young people. We're about to, hand the baton off to you. And when we think about Black culture, we think about, the leaders of culture. Whether or not society wants to admit it or not, Black folks do lead culture. And so, when I'm looking to stay relevant, I'm looking toward our younger generations to say, okay, who are they following? What, what's, what's on trend? And so the panel that we heard this morning with National Geographic and Disney, they were talking about how their brands stay relevant. So, Shifting now to the topic of relevancy and this next generation, who are you following? Who are the leaders that you're looking to in the world of environmental justice and GIS as these, these next guard of leaders? I Would say there's one person in particular that comes to mind when you talk about the next generation of leaders in environmental justice. And I would say. It's a pleasure to also call her a friend. Her name is Lauren Johnson. She has a Master's of Public Health from, I want to say it's GW. She also started an organization at her college that promotes environmental justice and exposes people on campus to the field. I heard her speak. One day, I can't remember, I was in DC, I believe we were at a government conference, but I'm not sure which conference that it was, and she got on stage, she looks really, really young, we're actually the same age, and she gets on stage, she literally transforms the room. Everyone, you know how people are at conferences, they're kind of not really paying attention. When she gets on stage and she starts talking, she has this presence and everyone is engaged in talking. I mean, everyone's engaged in listening. And so when I heard her speak, I said, oh my gosh, this Woman is amazing. And we seem to be around the same age. And so I didn't end up getting a chance to actually speak to her when I saw her that day because, you know, being a part of Egypt, a lot of people were talking to us. But luckily Dr. David A. Padgett, who was a Amazing, amazing networker and mentor. Got a chance to speak with her, invited her to the HBCU Climate Change Conference. And so I was able to see her there when we were in New Orleans. And so when I saw her, I saw her just walking down the hallway. I said, Hey, I saw you back in DC. I thought your presentation was amazing. I would love to like connect and, get together. And literally from that day on. We've been really good friends. I would say, is someone who everyone needs to tune into and, and, and follow as it pertains to what's going on in environmental justice. She works at one of the big fours in, climate and environmental. Sustainability. She recommended that I read this book, and this book is called Toxic Communities by Dorsetta E. Taylor. So I'm always just looking her for advice and getting her mentorship and just following her and keeping up with what she has going on in the space so that I can stay current as well. All right, all right, so I want to talk a little bit about Hijit's mission. I'm gonna read, it says HEGET's primary goal is to empower environmental justice stakeholders research efforts. So can you define what empowerment means to you? Because I think empowerment is one of those terms that mean different things to different people, depending on who's talking and who you're talking to. So how would you define empowerment? And then how has that played out in action based on HEGET's goals? Of course, I definitely agree with you. Empowerment means different things to different people, and everyone, uh, does their own advocacy and contributes to social justice in their own way. Heegit with the expertise on the team, uses their technical I guess, experience and competence, or not even competence, I would say, I guess, technical expertise, right? To use it in a way that organizations in the community can leverage. to accomplish their own goal. So a lot of what we do is supporting other organizations and what they're doing. And so our means of advocacy and our means of empowering the community is using the expertise and the technical applications that we use to kind of summarize or make more simple so that everyone can understand, because even when we think sometimes about, like, AI, machine learning, we hear these terms and it's, we wonder, like, what do they mean? But if someone were to tell you what they mean in one sentence and tell you in three bullet points, like how it's applicable to your organization or your everyday life, it would be a lot simpler. So, that's what we do. It's really hard to explain again because the technical nature of the work, but ultimately organizations are empowered through exposure to more people, or they're empowered with funding, right? That's what we know, like nonprofit organizations, which are environmental justice organizations to be empowered through. And so a lot of our work is to help those organizations develop strong grants. We help people with pre funding grants, grant applications so that they can apply for funding with really, really targeted maps or tools through our applications, and then also, we help organizations have a better understanding of the community that they're serving, their own target audience, and people that could potentially become a part of their target audience. So it's kind of double folded, like we help people with pre funding. We also help. I think it's really important for us to be able to engage with organizations with their everyday operations and understanding more about their demographics and targets. So I love that. I love that. So when we spoke with HopeWorks, we talked a little bit about that empowerment piece. So it's not just saying, okay, I'm going to give you fish, right? It is. Let's work together to fish, to learn how to fish. And like you said, there's the two sides of the coin. There's one, you're a recipient of, of grants. You're a recipient of information. You're a recipient of skills, but also to be able to turn around and give that back. And so when you talked about Dr. Padgett, and when you talk about Dr. Luber and the the specific. values that they're bringing to these projects, I thought immediately of the lens through which they're viewing, communities, they're viewing some of the challenges, they're viewing some of the solutions. And I think that as Black people, we do look at problems and potential solutions with a different lens. And I think that that's such a value add. And so On that line about the work that HEGET does, what do you think is the value of having immense diversity in the GIS space and environmental justice? I think, you know, that's an amazing question to piggyback off what we were just speaking of. I think one of the best value adds that HEGET provides, and I think the Deep South Center and the Bullard Center also provide this to the community. is specialization and it's an economic term where basically members of a community or society optimize output and productivity by having individuals specialize in what they're good at rather than try to do everything. And so HESIT, Separately, these eight professors, these eight geospatial scientists, you know, built environment specialists, engineers, economists, they're just being used by their respective institutions, but together. It's truly a catalyst for so much, I don't know if you know this concept called mastermind, but mastermind just talks about when you put two brains together in one room, there's, an exponential amount more of information ideas that can come from that room. And so for these individuals to come together. To put their brains together on solutions from a technical aspect, as well as a community aspect, what we've been able to accomplish in a very short period of time being together you know, I can only imagine what we'll be able to accomplish in the next five years. And the same is true for the Bullard Center. Being able to kind of be a specialized wheelhouse for environmental justice, leveraging even us, , leveraging us, leveraging lawyers, leveraging press to move an entire sector, an entire movement forward in a way that's institutionalized. I think that Is a ball game changer, just that institutionalization of things is what I think is next level. And it's something that the environmental justice community, from what I've seen, has been able to do in the last a couple of years, and has awarded them some tremendous opportunities and forward movements as far as policy, as well as in the private sector with lots of grants. So picking up from mastermind. What comes to mind to me, mind, mastermind? are having the right people in the room to have these conversations. So when we talk about, here are some challenges, here are potential solutions. When you have, I think Dr. Lubez is an economist, we have Dr. Padgett who specializes in GIS, Dr. Bullard in environmental justice. You bring these folks together, you bring these minds along with that, that youthful, boundless, Idea Supercenter that are in our young people, so then you have a ripe opportunity to have these conversations and come up with solutions. So given your unique perspective of your demographic, why should people listen to our younger generations if they wanna stay relevant? I think that the younger generation definitely has a lot to say and the younger generation has the ability to synthesize a bunch of information thrown at them very quickly and come up with solutions and see inefficiencies and problems that need to be solved. I definitely think there needs to be a stronger partnership with the younger generation as well as the older generation because I know myself, for example, I consider myself to be although I'm titled project manager or program manager, I consider myself to be a servant looking at. Those who came before me for advice, mentorship, guidance skills, training, and in turn, , there are things that they showed me that maybe I make more efficient, or, they say this, and maybe I say, oh, we could do this and we could do that as well, . I also think that the younger generation needs to soak up as much as they possibly can from those who came before us to learn and get up to speed on what's currently going on and what has happened so that they can take what has happened and what is currently going on and make the most of it and be efficient with it and turn it into something bigger and better than what it is now. So I think it's definitely a partnership. I'm definitely really excited and blessed to. Be around my teammates yet alone. Talk to them as much as I do and, and learn from them as much as I can. anD I, I'm really grateful for them and I, and I hope and pray that they're really grateful for me. They tell me it, and I hope that they believe it in their hearts as well.. We do. And I do love the optimism that your generation and future generations have. And I always say that if you want to find solutions to some of the biggest challenges, ask the people who are directly impacted, my generations and generations before us have done such a horrible job being stewards of the the environment, and with everything that's going on with climate change, you know, and it's just like, Will probably be dead and gone, you know, by the time the most ravaging impacts of climate change, you know, comes to fruition, if we don't stop it. So when we talk about real lasting solutions, put it in the hands of the people who are actually going to live through this change and have to get it done. All right, so this should be an easy question for you to answer. Throughout your career, you've encountered various GIS applications. Can you share one that's truly fascinating to you and why? Of course! So, HEGA, our team, has developed two applications now with the Bullard Center. The first one is actually featured in Bloomberg, and it is a mock CEGIS tool, Climate Economic Justice. It's a screening tool, and ultimately what that tool does is it defines disadvantaged communities based on the Justice fourty Executive Order, and it includes demographic data with it as well to point out, uh, and answer this controversial question about whether or not race and ethnicity data should be included in the disadvantaged criteria. And so our tool layers the disadvantage criteria on top of demographic data to show why race and ethnicity data is in fact super important to determine disadvantage because using the CJIS tool criteria, you can even see the locations that these disadvantaged communities are more popular in. Also kind of layer on various demographic data. So again, that tool is super cool. It's in beta testing right now. If anyone wants to play around with the tool or see what it's about, feel free to email me, and also look out for the article in Bloomberg that talks about the tool. All right, and I will put the link to that tool in the show notes. And so on that note, Kareem, the theme of this year's Homecoming Is resistance and resilience. So in terms of what's in your belly, what are you passionate about? What's driving you these days? When you look outside and you think about what's happening with the environment, you think about what's happening in our communities. When you think about the power that you have at your fingertips and in your brain, what comes to mind, resilience or resistance? I would say a friend of mine asked me a couple weeks ago, How did we, as humans, become humans? To think like he challenged me to actually think about everything that we have undergone from an evolution, biological and chemical standpoint, and how we end up as humans, you know, thinking and in this sophisticated manner. And the only thing that we can think of, is resilience. Like, whatever we were, you know, However many thousands of years ago to who we are now, it's because we were able to survive and multiply ourselves and evolve and adapt to the circumstances that we were in from an environmental perspective. So I think resilience Even in its most basic scientific form, it's literally in our DNA. And, you know, without that, without resilience and the ability to adapt and move forward and evolve, we don't have anything, but I mean, I'm confident in us because we've, we've already done it, right? We've been here for however many thousands of years, and I believe we'll be here for another thousands of thousands of years. All right. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. And last question. Given your vast knowledge of GIS, environmental justice, how would you go about surviving the zombie apocalypse? Surviving the zombie apocalypse. That is, I'm a sci fi person, so that one is always at the top of my mind. Have you watched the show called The Night Agent? It came out recently on like, Apple TV. Okay, so the vice president who was trying to kill the president and become the president, right, he had this bunker under this cabin. I don't even know, it's some popular cabin that the president has and he had this bunker underneath. So, I think in my mind I've watched so many videos on how to like, create a bunker. unDer your own house or like in any kind of land with grass. And my mom has a backyard. So I think my plan would be to create a bunker and to just live there until No one finds me or until anyone finds me, but hopefully no one will find me, right? Cause I'm underground and no one's going to be sitting there with a metal detector, trying to figure out where the bunkers are underground. All right. Well, Karee, thank you for spending some time with me talking on our new North Star podcast. And where can the listeners find you if they'd like to know more about Hijit? Feejit's Project, Where Can They Find You and who are you following? Of course. Yeah, so if anyone wants to get in contact with me, my email is Cari, C A R I at T for Todd, B for Butterfly Effect dot C O, and then my Instagram handle is at WeWeGemini, R I R I, Gemini. And yeah, that's everything. If you don't know who Dr. Robert Bullard is, you should look him up as soon as possible. If you don't know who Dr. David A. Pettit is, you should look him up. As soon as possible. Alright, and other young folks to follow, Lauren Johnson. And Lauren Johnson. Alright, and give us the name of that book one more time. Of course. The name of the book that Lauren Johnson is actually teaching a class on at a law school is called Toxic Communities, Environmental Racism, Industrial Pollution, and Residential Mobility by Dorsetta E. Taylor. Alright, well thank you. And on that note, thank you to our listeners. I want to thank the sponsors of the 2023 Homecoming Conference event, which was held on Howard University's campus. Thank you National Geographic Society, National Academy's Gulf Research Program, Mapping Black California, Hope and Heal, and Spatial GIS. We also want to give a special thanks to our guests. Thank you. for trusting us with your stories. Shannon, Sandra, Kevin, Margo, Frank, Jen, Dr. Louberts, Karee, Dr. Graham, Gloria, Michael, Eric, Sky, Nick, Dr. Yoboa Kwakun, Veronique, and Dawn. We also want to thank Howard University for allowing us to present in the iconic browsing room and to the Northstar team. Thank you. Shakonda, Raisha, Clinton. Erica, Yolanda, and our volunteers and student ambassadors. Thank you also to KMG. Audio is produced by Cherry Blossom Production, and I'm Aisha, your host and the executive producer of the inaugural season of the North Star Gaze podcast, which is based on the 2023 Homecoming conference event. Thanks for listening to the North Star Gaze, intimate stories from geoluminaries. If you're inspired to advance racial justice in geofields, please share this podcast with other listeners in your community. The intro and outro are produced by Organized Sound Productions with original music created by Kid Bodega. The North Star Gaze is produced in large part by donations and sponsorship. 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