Mindset - A Lion Doesn’t Need To Tell the Jungle It’s a Lion

Success isn't found in the watch, the car, or the shoes; it's in how you present yourself.   

In this raw and real episode of the Stay Hungry Podcast, Joel and Martha explore the quiet confidence that defines true leadership. They discuss why showing off is often a cover up  and how to tell the difference between substance and showmanship. From upcoming jungle adventures in Borneo  to making AI generated Peppa Pig artwork, it's a lesson in owning your space without needing to shout about it.   

🔑 The Real Meaning of Confidence: Why lions don’t need to announce their arrival.
🧠 Growth Mindset: Being brave enough to ask questions and risk looking silly.
🗣️ Ask the Question: Why vulnerability is key to genuine learning.
🔥 Substance vs. Show: Spotting the difference between real value and just flexing.
🏆 Room Full of Giants: Why it pays to be the smallest fish in a big pond.   

You don’t have to be loud to be heard. True success whispers.   

Listen now!

Links:

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Transcript

0:13

Hey Martha, we're talking about lions. I know, the title of this is very apt for what you're going off to do tomorrow. Oh fuck, I never even thought about that. Yeah, so tomorrow, by the time this goes out, it won't be tomorrow, but by the time this goes out, I will be in Borneo in the jungle. Yeah. Yeah, I never even thought of that. Because that's a bit, oh, just turn the microphone, that's a bit of a mindset piece in itself, like the reason that you did that, right? Is it? As in, like, you wanted to treat Hannah to something and you were like, fuck it, I'm just doing it. Yeah, there was a bit of that. So yeah, it's not a flex, for sure. It was, Hannah was having a serious operation and was going to spend three months in a wheelchair. It wasn't an optional operation, but it was scary and she could have delayed it, but I didn't want her to delay it any further because she was struggling to walk. So the kind of deal was, if she books this operation and goes through everything she needs to go through, I'm going to go into the travel agents and book the trip of a lifetime so we've got something to look forward to. And we both had Borneo on our bucket list because we're both like orangutans. Are you going to see them in the wild? Yeah. Sounds a bit scary. They're big things, aren't they? Yeah. I'm not scared, I don't think. How tall is an orangutan? Well, if it's stood up properly, pretty... Like seven foot? No, I wouldn't have thought so. Taller than you? No, I don't think so. They're quite bendy, aren't they? They could like throw me across the room, no trouble. They're strong. Yeah, their palms are like... Yeah, they're strong as hell. But I think they're fair, you know, you just don't encroach and you'll be fine, I think. Are they group animals? Like, do they live in... Yeah, they're social animals, yeah. And then boys, do they live... They're not like gorillas, they don't live in like a... Yeah, so they're quite solitary. I think they cross paths... Yeah, I don't know, I'll find out. Yeah, well, to be continued. I should know more about this, really. Hannah would know straight away. Hannah should come on the podcast, actually. I will never get her to do that. Jason's just started listening, welcome, Jason. Has he? Yeah, after four years. Hannah's never listened to an episode, so... Well, I said, oh, I've got to be careful about what I say about him. I don't think I've ever said a bad word about Hannah on here. No, I don't think... Oh, well, he listened to the marketing red flags when he was like, you said I give you the ick about something. Oh, yeah, yeah, fair play. So, yeah, the point of this podcast, so I was trying to think about some of the things I see so-called successful people do. And I don't think truly successful people have to announce themselves because the behaviour and the way they hold themselves and the way they talk and the way they capture the room and the way they listen makes it obvious that they're successful. Where I think there is this like culture and, well, I was going to say, I'm not saying anyone's wrong for doing this, but some people are wrong for doing it, of like being flashy, where it's like when you shake someone's hand, it's their watch that greets you first, or they're wearing a certain jacket or they drive a certain car. But there's an uncomfortableness around it. So, we've got clients who wear nice watches or have nice cars, but there's no showiness around it, that's just part of them. And we've worked with people and know people who it doesn't add up. Have a nice car, but won't pay for, won't split the bill because you add an extra coke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that. And I was actually having a conversation with ChatGPT about it, because it was like, I was trying to ruminate on it and figure out why does this annoy me so much? Why have I got such a chip on my shoulder about this? And it said, a lion doesn't tell the jungle it's a lion. I was like, oof. I'm assuming someone more famous than ChatGPT said that. Who is more famous than ChatGPT nowadays? But it's that quiet, powerful, get shit done mentality that you meet in successful people. And they might not be financially successful, but you could meet a priest who has this about them. You could meet a nurse that has it about them. You could meet an entrepreneur that has it about them. But it's that like, I mean, I don't want to use the word hustle in the sense of hustle culture, but those people that have got that about them, that like, quiet determination and quiet confidence. And it's like, not arrogance. It's confidence and that's different. Yeah, like that person like, you know, if you're walking into a room full of strangers, you want to walk in next to them because you just know the room will be like, oh, this guy's here. Well, this girl's here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Business. Yeah. And I think like when you see a panel on a stage or anything, you like look at it and you'd be like, made it, wannabe, made it, trying to make it. And it's the wannabe that scares me. Respect, don't respect. Not related to success, but like in the way they hold themselves. Yeah, and like, I don't know, it gets to me. Like, I don't think like real leaders need validation. They don't cry out for validation from other people. I've had a bit of like stuff going on with this lately where I'm really into AI, obviously. And I really like all this image generation stuff. And obviously everyone jumped on the like, create an action figure thing. Fine, everyone's having fun, not killing that. But then I'm like right down the rabbit hole. I've made like a Peppa Pig version of me. I've done some like mental shit. I've created like dual exposure posters and fucking Mogwai and all sorts of random shit. And then I put out a clip of all the things I've made, knowing that most people would think that was pretty sad. And I don't care. Yeah. This is me, this is what I enjoy. I've got some nice things. I'm going on a pretty flashy holiday. Also in my spare time, I like making Mogwai that look like me. Go fuck yourself. Like, I don't like, and that's, I think that's where my kind of chip is on my shoulder about this like, people who greet me with their watch or their handbag first, or like the Red Soul Brigade. Like, I mean, we've got a client who loves Louboutins, so, and he does, but he doesn't wear them for other people. He wears them for him, and that's the difference. See, when you said Louboutins, I, in my head, had high heels. Yeah. And now I know who you're talking about. I just think about them in my head. Yeah, well, that was the thing, isn't it? They got women with the high heel thing, and then they got men with, like, pretty funky trainers. And they're cool. They're not for me, but there's people who wear them because they like them, and there's people who wear them because they think other people like them, and that's different. And I think, like, where I'm leading to with this is when you're looking at these gurus and these online coaches and these mentors, are they, is their image there? to impress others or is their image there to represent themselves and there is a difference. How do you feel that plays into like people are like jacked up because obviously that takes like a certain level of self-discipline to maintain a level of physique. So like I'm not in the best of shape and I'm okay saying that I'm comfortable saying that and I think people probably do make a judgment on that that maybe I lack discipline, maybe I'm not as in control as I think I am and there might be an element of truth to that too. So I do think people judge a book by its cover but that goes both ways. If someone's over flash and over compensating and shows up in a monster truck then I would be worried about that too. If someone's so jacked that they probably can't spend any time with their family or focus on their business I would make a judgment on that too. I think that's natural. I'm not saying that's always the truth of the situation and so there are subtleties and behaviors to think about. Like I know one guy who I met at an event earlier this year, he's mega jacked but he's a proper family man, a really focused business owner and so there is nuance and he also owns it. He's not jacked for others, he's jacked for him. And again it's the same thing like you'll meet entrepreneurs who are super successful that just wear a hoodie and joggers and... Banksy, well no but apparently he looks like a hobo. Like Zuckerberg but it only becomes weird when they start saying that that's how you're meant to be. Like inflicting your personal... Yeah it becomes like religious in its output and so when someone's like... it's almost like an antiflex and then it becomes a problem as well. It's like why are you telling people how they should feel about you? Yeah. That's odd and so maybe I overthink it, maybe I'm too much of a deep thinker. I'm always like hmm are you a wolf in sheep's clothing? But you'll also align yourself with the people who you feel like are the most representation... like represent how you hold yourself. Yeah. So you might as well be like fully who you're gonna be and then attract people towards you. There's two parts on this. I'm interested in your take on this. So there's people who align themselves with what they aspire to be, which is uncomfortable right? Because you could be spending time like let's say you're very spiritual. If you decide to start spending time with the Dalai Lama, he's probably on ten levels above you and that's gonna be a lot. Equally if you're an entrepreneur just starting out and you start hanging out with Zuckerberg, there's gonna be a big gap. But the opposite thing that people... well I think what most people do is they hang out with the people where they're comfortable. Big fish, little pond. So a lot of people like being the big fish in the little pond when it's better to be the little fish in the big pond. And I certainly had that. When I've like perhaps been anxious or feeling depressed or just growing up in my early 20s, it was quite nice to feel like a big deal. I'm not saying like everyone feels that right, that's not unusual. But actually it's through time I've found it far more like mentally nourishing to be around people who stretch me as a human, who make me have... like literally yesterday, so Lewis Potts, one of our clients, he coaches coaches on retention but he's actually an incredible psychologist, he just would never say that. And I told him that I wasn't going to apply to speak at an event because I already get paid by that company to run workshops for them and I felt like I'd be undermining myself by putting myself in the mix. So what was it like an opportunity to speak at a theatre and you like put your name in a hat? Yeah. Okay. And he came back and said that's fucking bullshit and I was like... and I said well I feel like I'm taking someone's place, I feel like if I don't get picked for my mindset that might be bad. And he came back and he was like no, you're in the group too, you've got just as much right to be there as anyone else. And normally when you have a conversation with someone I think it's fair to say very rarely does anyone ever change someone's mind. You have a bit of a debate and then you both agree to disagree. Hanging around with someone like Lewis, who I hold in really high esteem, has altered that in me. So it did change your mind? Yeah. I was ragging him, I said I think you're right. That's really cool. And I didn't apologize, I hadn't done anything wrong but I just was like, I think you're right. And I love that, I get that when I'm talking to you. Sometimes you'll say something to me, you did it this morning about something that's going on here and you reeled off a few things about some blogs. Yeah, Martha's right. That was great. And that's when you know you're hanging around with the right people. And also I struggle with internally admitting I was wrong and being like, I feel like I was wrong. Yeah, I was wrong about that. Whereas you ring in Lewis and say, thank you for that, you were right. Outwardly that's what I would do, but inwardly I'd be like, fuck sake. Yeah, you should be as kind to yourself as you're being to the other person. That's hard. But yeah, it's really held me in good... because I worry sometimes, like booking a trip to Borneo, the team, we're going to Orlando this year. That's soon. It's really fucking soon. It's May next month. I've got to pay for it. Next week is May. So we're five months out. I know where we're staying. Do you? I'll show you if you want. But things like that, and like things I've done in the past, I worry that I look like I'm flexing and so I make a conscious effort to post some of the shit I've got going on on socials too. Because I know that there are these people out there that are flexing absolute nonsense and people are getting caught up in it and being told that they're going to have a seven-figure launch. I mean, do your research and find out how many seven-figure launches there's been in the history of online business. Not many. So if someone's saying they're going to help you do a seven-figure launch, unless it's in fucking groats, run. Yeah, and also like a seven-figure launch could be a seven-figure launch but you don't know what has been invested into that. It could have been a seven-figure investment. I know a coach who was willing to, as long as she made two pound for every pound she spent, that was successful for her. So a seven-figure launch meant a 500 grand spend. to do that. So that's not a flex then, that's the reality of what's going on under the hood of a business. And that's where I get excited about hanging around with people that make me feel like I'm out of my depth. Yeah, whenever we go anywhere with the coaches or the business owners, I come back thinking, I feel like they've done it, I could do it, we can do anything ever. But also sometimes everybody will be talking and I'll be like, what are they talking about? Or like, I don't understand the concept of this. But is it better to be in an environment where you don't? Yeah, it is, absolutely, because you learn so much from other people's mistakes, that's one of the most important things. And their successes. And their successes. But it's so hard to be like, oh, can you just explain that to me? Because you don't want to look like the... Yeah, I sometimes make the mistake of relaying some of my business plans to my mates that I go to the football with. And they think you're insane. They think I'm fucking mental. And they think I'm flexing, because they don't know... The risk. And the reality, because it's not their world, nor should it be, it's not their fault. And I'm now getting into a place where I choose what I share, not because I'm ashamed, but I go to the football with those guys to talk about the football and hear about their families and the good things that are going on for them. If I'm about to take a risk that makes them feel uncomfortable, a risk they would never take, I probably shouldn't have that conversation with them, because it will affect what I'm about to do. But I should have that conversation with people who've taken that risk before and understand. Okay, so what about when... I don't know if you've ever had this. I would confidently say I know a lot about marketing. And in that world and conversation, I would be like holding my own. I would worry if I asked a question about something else that people would judge my marketing ability based on my knowledge of... Dinosaurs. Maybe not so, but like something adjacent like... Sales. Yeah, or like tax return, or not tax return, but you know, something involving numbers that you know. And then I feel like I don't grow, but I'm also like, but is it better to be not vulnerable, but obviously ask the question, know the answer. You're only a fool for a minute. A successful person, a truly successful person spiritually, mentally, wealth, whatever way you label success, would not judge you for asking a question. Yeah. The only people that would judge you for asking a question are people trying to make themselves feel better. And they're the flexes. Yeah. So fuck them. Yeah. Okay. Roger that. I love it when you guys ask me questions and I hate it when something goes wrong and you haven't asked me any questions. Because I'm like, why didn't you ask the questions? And the answer is always, I didn't want to feel stupid. You look more stupid now. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I don't believe there's no such thing as a stupid question. There's loads of stupid questions, but sometimes it's quite fun to ask a stupid question. This might be a stupid question, but do orangutans live in family groups or are they solitary? Because I fucking love orangutans and I'm not sure what the answer is. I think they're mostly solitary, but then at the zoo, they're not. So I'm probably wrong. Yeah. They don't attack each other. I'm going to have to ask a fucking stupid question on this trip, aren't I? Fine. Two sat next to each other. Do these live together? You spent all this money because you love orangutans. You don't give a fuck all about them. My wife knows everything about them. I'm here for the adventure. Oh, you're the stupid one. Yeah. In this instance, I am the stupid one and that's cool. I'm also paying you to drive this truck to drive. Oh, thank you. Honestly, though, I will be there like a kid in a sweet shop just in awe. Just like, what's that bird? What's that bird? What's that bird? Oh, it's going to be so hot, though. I don't know. 100% humidity. When I'm hot, I can't even... I've got a really good fan. Going prepared, of course. I don't doubt you have a great fan, a great charger, great... I was thinking, oh, what can I get Joel and Hannah for their trip? I was like, they're going to have everything. There's not going to be one scenario that Joel hasn't thought of. See, that's what... So Hannah would go with one of those satchels on a stick and survive. One pair of pants. Yeah, and survive. And I'm like, Hannah, where's the first aid kit? She's laughing at me. Do we have something to make a fire if we get stranded? I don't know. She always takes a flint wherever she goes. Does she? In a little... She's got a flint, a pair of pants. Yeah, keep warm, keep dry. And that's all she's bothered about. Well, I'm like... Everything. But it's that, like, yeah, I don't know. I really enjoyed having been married to Hannah, being put in environments with experts on wildlife or adventure or jungle or whatever it might be, and feeling stupid. Because I love learning. Yeah. And so it's like, if I'm learning, I'm happy. If I'm developing, I'm happy. And I think some people are so afraid of looking stupid that they forget the joy of learning something new. Yeah, I fall into that category, I think. Yeah. Because I want to excel, and I excel at the things I'm good at. And then putting myself in a... Like, tomorrow I'm going to a training and development day, which I haven't done on my own in a while, or maybe... I don't think you've ever done it since you've been here. No, not solely on my own. You've always been, like, there in the background or whatever. And I'm looking forward to it, but I'm also like, I'm going to be around, hopefully, some really cool people. And I need to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. You should feel like when you walk in, what the fuck am I doing here? Yeah. Because that means you're in the right place. And they'll be... It'll be mostly business owners, and I'm obviously not a business owner. Yeah, you'd just be like, I'm not... Which I feel already puts me on the back foot. I'm not the owner, but I am the boss. Yeah. I love that, because I describe you like that to people anyway. It's like, yeah, look, I'm not the brains of the outfit. I'm just here to run the ship, like Martha's in charge. And, like, you should go into that with that. Yeah. It's like, well, fucking hell. Like, I'm 26 years old. Yeah. And Joel's fucking off to the other side of the world, and he trusts us to run the business when he's not there. That's... Cool. Yeah, something to be proud of. So tell me, then, who, like, if we're talking about names people know, who to you is a lion? Maybe we won't say who's a peacock, but who springs to mind when you're, like, a lion? I think Gary Vee's really good at this. Like, he's not overstated. He's just him. Jeans and a hoodie guy. Yeah, and it's not even... It's not the clothing, necessarily. I mean, he doesn't wear particularly fancy clothes, but he wears... He's presentable. But he always has nice trainers. He fucking loves his trainers. Really? Hell, yeah. But then you'd have to know to know. But he's just him. He's like, oh, I'm a collector. I'm busy. I like entrepreneurial... and I don't give a shit what other people think, but I do really care about people. Because I think when you really care about what other people think, you're caring less about them and more about you, because you're worrying about how what they think will affect you. Which you can never control, what other people think. So you're trying to dial into something that you can't. Because their thoughts and their opinions will change with the wind. Based on their circumstance. Yeah, we've got one today that's having to moan at us. And it will 100% be because of their personal circumstances, not because of anything we've done. Because I know what our service level is. So yeah, I think that like, Gary V's a really good one. Like Simon Squibb's a good British one at the moment, I think, where he just doesn't seem, considering he's a multi-multi-millionaire, doesn't seem overstated at all. But he seems very successful and knowledgeable and open to conversation. There's loads of female ones where I think, I think the opportunity for women to get like pilloried by, I have to be careful what I say, but like hammered by other women for being overly flash and like, is even harsher. And so, there's a fine line, and yet like, Cody Sanchez is a great entrepreneur, always looks immaculate, always dresses lovely, but that's her. And then like, you've got like, one of Hannah's heroes is Michaela Strachan off like the really wild show. But she's just, she's who she is. And like, you can't argue with that. Like everything fits. With like a monocle and a cane, with a diamond encrusted cane, you lot would be like, what the fuck has happened to Joel? Or if I showed up on a motorbike, well, I don't know, that might fit. I think even if you showed up to a client meeting in a suit, I'd be like, what? Yeah, I would do worry about it. Because that's the thing, is like, I don't mind a suit. I think I've seen you in a suit before. I'd probably wear like a white T-shirt, suit, trousers, and then some trainers. But I still think people would be like, that's not what he normally wears. Yeah, I just, I guess I said that more on the like, you felt like you had to dress in a suit for a client meeting. Oh yeah, that would never happen. Yesterday we had a six hour one-to-one workshop and I was wearing this T-shirt. No, I'm clean and tidy. I smell nice. Like, I'm me. But we had a client once, he said he always looks at everyone's shoes first because if you can't look after you, if you can't clean your shoes, then you can't, whatever. Which is like his. I noticed that, when someone's got dirty shoes. See, I don't, that wouldn't be like, a thing that I would think, oh, they must have a messy life. I'm gonna tell a horrible story now about how judgmental I am. But we're raw and real on the Stay Hungry podcast. So I went to a 30th birthday earlier this year, Ben's 30th birthday. And he was like, there's a guy I want to introduce you to. And I was like, I think you'll really get on. He's like. Already the expectation is like. It was a high expectation, I felt nervous. But he was like, he's a bit geeky, he likes a deep conversation, he's not surface level. He's not flash. And I was like, cool, looking forward to meeting him. And then we got to this party, and it was a surprise party, so we were obviously there with all the guests before Ben was there, but we didn't really know anyone other than Ben's, like, gran. So it was quite like, I'd never met her once. Everyone's there, and it's North London, so people are dressed up to the nines and making an effort. And this guy walked in, and he's wearing chinos, a t-shirt, and he had grubby shoes. And I said to Hannah, that'll be the guy. And she was like, what do you mean? I was like, I know that that'll be the guy that Ben wants. I've never seen a picture of him or anything. And she was like, how do you know? I was like, I'm telling you right now, he's an overthinker who cares about deep conversation and couldn't give a shit about the state of his shoes. And it was him. And it was him. Oh, I thought you were gonna say, it wasn't him. Yeah, it was his mate who was wearing, like, bright white Louboutins, no. And a pair of pants. It was him. And then, that makes me reassess my judgment, because there's some people where that's just not a priority to them, but if their priority is to get to work and work their fucking ass off, they could still be a great employee for you or a great service provider for you. So you do have to be careful, but I worry about people's self-respect. I know that when I lack self-respect, things slip, my beard gets messy, my teeth don't look as good as they could, my shoes aren't as clean as they could be, and sometimes people have to find self-respect before they can develop as a person. Now, that's a massive board brush judgment and a harsh thing to say, but that, like, we're trying to play a championship game. If you'd have come to your first interview and looked like you'd been dragged through a hedge backwards, I'd have probably made a separate judgment. Like I do right now. Yeah, yeah, like you do now, yeah. So, what about you? Do you ever feel like, oh, I've done this for attention, not for the right reason? No, I think, actually, for me, it's for myself. Like, I do a lot of things for myself. Actually, when I train high rocks, I am doing that for myself. My ego also won't let me be slower than my partner. Like, I don't wanna be the one, I wanna be the one in front, not the one behind. That's a positive use of ego, isn't it? Potentially, but there is sometimes when it's dark and raining and 5 a.m. and I don't wanna go, I'm like, I can't be slower than Sophie. So, I am gonna be going. That feels pretty positive. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Because ego could also be like, I don't need to be faster than Sophie. Yeah. I'm already better than Sophie. Yeah. I'm gonna stay in bed for an extra hour. Yeah. Worth knowing. What the difference is. For the right reasons, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the only, that's the one that springs to mind. I mean, tomorrow, I'm gonna be looking presentable, I'm gonna be wearing merch. Is that, well, yeah, I guess I'm gonna walk in the room with shoulders up, looking confident. Wear what you want, to be honest, but these three have to wear merch. You wear what makes you feel positive. Well, I'm gonna wear merch, I think, unless it's like a million degrees. Yeah. Because I don't wanna have armpit sweat. Not that I would judge someone on their armpit sweat, but maybe I would step away. Yeah, I've got really good new deodorant. What deodorant? Is it like that organic shit? No, no, that didn't work. I was just sweating. Yeah, I always think that it looks like it doesn't work. People who are wearing that, I am judging them. Yeah, and that didn't stop me sweating. Hannah's got some that works, but it has got antiperspirant in it, so that's, but- Because it looks like a bar of soap. So I bought this one that's non, it's got, it's not a spray, it's a spray. It's not in a can, so it's not got whatever chemical in it to pressurise it. So it's like a room spray? Yeah. Oh, that must feel horrible. So you get wet. It lasts way longer. No, it dries instantly when it hits your skin. And how many... It's the same stuff as in the... Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. You get way more out of the bottle. And so I was like, I'm not sweating at all, and I'm quite a sweaty guy. And it smells nice. And then I looked at the bottle. I was like, oh, I wonder who makes this. I didn't really think about it. And it's Ineos. Who is Ineos? So they own part of Manchester United and Mercedes Formula One and various other things. They're a petrochemical company. Great. That's just what you want to be spraying on your armpit. But I think this must be like an offshoot of their petrochemical business. But then most pharmaceuticals are. So if you're going down that rabbit hole. Yeah, that's a company, yeah. It's all bloody that. But yeah, it just made me laugh. Oh yeah, just bang some petrol on my armpit. Yeah, that is very Jozo and brand though. Yeah, it smells nice. Does it smell of petrol? It's recyclable, and it doesn't have any aerosol in it. Aerosol, that was the word I was looking for. So it's better for the environment. But yeah, you couldn't use it as a flex. It looks weird as fuck. Yeah, just be like, sorry guys, let me just... Yeah, what are you doing? Why did you just put like antiseptic under your arms? I got that out of hell. So I guess the point we're saying, to sort of wrap up, is reputation is built, not bragged about. It's about the consistency of your behaviour, and if your behaviour's fit. So, my phone has rang about 300 times. It's like your phone, isn't it? Yeah, better be important. So like, when you're successful, your clients will do the, or your church, or your patients will do the talking for you. Your reputation will precede you, good or bad. So if you find yourself having to say, have you seen my new watch? Or, did you know that on average my clients get a 10x return? Or, have you seen the headlines? It's me. You're probably not as successful as you think you are. The lion doesn't need to tell the jungle it's a lion. Everyone else just steps aside. When it walks in. When it walks in.