069_AI, Diversity, and Data: The Future of Healthcare Innovation with Justin Ayars

Host: Jarvis T. Gray, The Quality Coaching Co.
Guest: Justin Ayars, Founder & CEO, EqualityMD

In this inspiring episode, Jarvis T. Gray sits down with healthcare entrepreneur and founder of EqualityMD, Justin Ayars (he/him). From Star Trek leadership wisdom to the realities of healthcare entrepreneurship, they discuss how diversity, data, and disruption are shaping the future of healthcare.

Key Topics & Highlights

1. Leadership Wisdom and Mindset

• Justin shares his guiding quote: "Things are only impossible until they're not," inspired by Star Trek.
• Emphasizes the importance of challenging complacency and embracing risk, especially as an entrepreneur in healthcare.

2. Career Journey & Entrepreneurship

• Justin details his non-linear career path—starting as a healthcare trial lawyer, moving into entrepreneurship, and eventually founding EqualityMD.
• Talks candidly about the challenges and rewards of building businesses in and around healthcare, especially under difficult circumstances like the Great Recession and COVID-19.

3. Building Solutions Outside the Broken System

• EqualityMD evolved from a B2C LGBTQ+ healthcare platform to a B2B solution, providing inclusive healthcare options for employers, nonprofits, and organizations.
• Emphasizes the need to innovate outside the traditional insurance-based model and the power of data analytics to address health disparities.

4. Navigating Accelerators & Entrepreneurship

• Justin shares wisdom from participating in accelerator programs and pitch contests, advising that failing is necessary for growth and that real-world experience is irreplaceable.

5. Industry Trends & Challenges

• Highlights game-changing trends including AI and interoperability but cautions against silver-bullet thinking.
• Discusses the challenges of rising healthcare costs, the influence of insurance companies and pharmacy benefit managers, and the need for preventative care and better data.

6. Data, Diversity & Health Equity

• The need for trustworthy data from marginalized populations to drive healthcare reform.
• The pivotal role of culturally competent, data-driven solutions for underserved communities.

7. Personal Stories & Leadership Lessons

• Shares powerful anecdotes about learning from icons like Liberace and legal mentors.
• Stresses the importance of knowing your audience, understanding time/place/manner, and living deliberately.

Links & Resources

• EqualityMD: equalitymd.com
• Connect on LinkedIn: Justin Ayars
• Email: justin@equalitymd.com

Memorable Quotes

“Strength through diversity. On our own, we're fine and dandy, but we're more powerful together.” — Justin Ayars“You’ve got to make the effort, embrace risk, and fail forward.” — Justin Ayars“Always know your audience. You can’t read about it, you just have to do it.” — Justin Ayars

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Transcript

1:19

Hey, healthcare leaders. Welcome back to another episode of the Excellence in Healthcare podcast. I'm your host, Jarvis Gray, and today I'm here joined by my guest, Mr. Justin Ayers. Justin, are you ready to share with our audience, the healthcare leaders? I am. Thanks for having me on your program. No, it's my pleasure. I appreciate you making the time. I can't wait to really jump into your really impressive background, Justin. But before we. Before we jump in, I always like to get our show started on a high note. So I love to ask, what's a leadership quote or mindset that guides you? And most importantly, how do you apply it on a daily basis? I love this quote. I have to go back to my. Go to sort of inspirational bulk of material, and that's Star Trek. And one of my favorite quotes from Star Trek is things are only impossible until they're not. And it really applies to my everyday life, especially as an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs kind of by definition, are insane, and you have to be somewhat crazy to take the calculated risk that we do every single day so that we can effectively challenge the status quo and make meaningful change and help the world become a better place. Unfortunately, most founders experience what I do, and that's that the world has embraced this mental notion of complacent mediocrity. And that's something I believe is an insidious state of mind. It discourages risk, innovation, and change. These principles are the founding principles upon which our nation was built. Additionally, I believe the world's problems can be attributed to two simple words, personal insecurities. To overcome this deeply rooted problem, I look to another quote from Star Trek. Look up. Look up doesn't just mean looking up at the clouds or stargazing. It means you're willing to explore your inner galaxy by confronting your own insecurities, challenging your assumptions, and becoming comfortable being uncomfortable. And if you do these things, in time, you'll be at peace, living in your own skin and capable of walking this earth, one eye on the horizon and one eye on the. No, I appreciate. First of all, I appreciate any good Star Trek quote, but leadership principles from Star Trek, I feel like we're already gonna, you know, set this show off in a really good way so we can explore strange new galaxies and go where no man has gone before. In this conversation, Justin and I, I appreciate also what you shared about just being an entrepreneur. You know, Justin, when I came across Your profile on LinkedIn, your. Your background in healthcare, specifically healthcare law, and the business that you're building and the businesses that you've even built previous to this one. Again, for me, I thought it was important to try to get you on the show to, to talk about the diversity of healthcare leadership, healthcare, entrepreneurship. One of the things I always love bringing to this podcast is just different ways of thinking. Again, thank you for the quote and opening us up and thank you for joining. I. I love to maybe get you to share that. That path that you've been blazing through, your career path, the roles that you're currently in, the just the journey even again with entrepreneurship and what inspired you to even get into healthcare overall? Well, no journey. I don't think anyone's journey is ever a straight line from A to B. If it is, you're just boring. But it's. You're right. I started out in healthcare law. I was a trial lawyer and I defended insurance companies. I didn't want to take that job, but during the Great Recession that was kind of all that was available and I did so taking a massive pay cut because this was during the Great Recession. So I was just lucky to get a job in the first place. And eventually the mid sized law firm in the mid Atlantic where I was practicing winning every case I had, I'd like to think it was because of my utter brilliance, but a lot of it was because the system is stacked against the patient who's making a claim. And that's just the way it is, unfortunately. And when I got my pink slip, I. I thought it was a blessing. And first because I thought, yes, I don't have to defend the devil anymore. But at the same time I thought, God damn it, now I don't have a paycheck. So My last Paycheck W2 form was in 2009. So I've been living the entrepreneurial dream for 16 years now. And I swore never return to healthcare again because I saw from the inside how broken and in many senses that the word corrupt it is. But after running four successful businesses, building a massive network across the country through everything, showing up at organizations that embrace diversity like Pride organizations, speaking with marketing teams at Fortune 500 companies in ways they can authentically engage in new markets without just for example, raising a rainbow flag or doing something for Black History Month there the idea of where's the data about how these different communities behave as a consumer base. So we transitioned what was then a marketing media and consulting company into a consumer behavioral data analytics company that we launched in March of 2020 when Covid hit. Not an ideal time, but the idea of that data analytics really remained present at the forefront of my mind. And I thought looking around as we were all sheltering a place, I have the capacity and the ability to tap into the talent that complements my skill sets and find others to build healthcare solutions using a data analytics mind frame so that we can address some of the glaring health disparities that have been there for generations and fill critical care and data gaps that health companies and even insurance companies known as payers. They need this data so they can build better predictive analytics, financial modeling, enhanced disease trajectories, and that will help help them make data driven reforms that help them authentically engage these communities. They've not been able to do so on their own, so that's sort of how I got back to where I am with a quality MD. What started as primarily an LGBTQ healthcare company has evolved into more of a B2B entity. We serve more mostly B2B clients, businesses, nonprofits, professional organizations still do some B2C, but with B2B, it's, it's fascinating. We exist outside of the broken healthcare system that's run by profit motivated insurance companies. And because of that, we are not affected by their volatile plans which change constantly, and we're not impacted by any new partisan healthcare policies. That enviable independence allows us to structure bespoke agreements with small mid sized businesses, large corporations, nonprofits, professional organizations like chambers of commerce, and other entities that are looking for affordable and inclusive healthcare solutions. And that's what really excites me today. Now again, I appreciate that. Funny enough, I was just having a conversation last night with some of the dads at my son's football practice about what's working, what's not working in healthcare, some of the corporates that, you know, that are driving, you know, the goods and the bads of healthcare. I'm just curious, you know, I know a lot of the vision for the business is kind of driven on solving the problem. How did you come to, you know, this being the solution to solve the problem? Any, any insights? And specifically, I'm thinking about our audience member who might be still working at a hospital or in their corporate healthcare function, who sees the problems in healthcare and wants to come up with a way to solve them. How did you go about saying, you know, this is our solution, I'm gonna start the business. What did that mindset or that journey also look like for you? Well, initially I, I thought that we would be building a platform from scratch and ideally serving the 30 million LGBTQ patients across the country, more of a direct to consumer model because this was early days of COVID 2122 and we were all kind of still figuring out these various point solutions. The point solutions became point fatigue and they weren't addressing sort of the underlying causes of either discrimination in health care, lack of affordability and access to care, the, the importance of longitudinal care when you talk about continuity of care, particularly pertaining to mental health, which affects everybody as the shortage of primary care and mental health practitioners continues to plague the demand that we have, which is rising. So I think that the pivot from, from that really Resulted from a 32,000 patient study we did while we were at the CS Accelerator in Los Angeles. We were very lucky to get into that. It's as hard to get into as Y Combinator and significantly harder than techstars. And we learned from that, that the problems that underserved patient populations, whether it's racial minorities, lgbtq, neurodivergent military veterans, that the need was so prominent that building something from scratch, going state by state, working with payer by payer, wasn't scalable, it wasn't profitable and it wasn't solving the root problem. So the results from this massive study that had really never been done at scale, we did this in partnership with the National Research Corporation. That's how we were able to get such a big data set. And basically the take home message from that was don't build a solution within the broken employer sponsored insurance based framework. And I thought thank God, I don't want to work with insurance companies except by capturing new patient journey data that we can translate into actionable AI insights, sell them to payers so they can make the data driven reforms and advance health equity at scale in ways we simply can't because they run the entire system. So we've been able to partner with a white label telehealth partner, get their national provider network trained in cultural competency to treat people from all walks of life across the US and we're very pleased that we're also able to offer through them free prescriptions. Very few companies can do that. That makes the affordability very enticing. And the fact that we're not tied to any insurance company, that we're not tied to any healthcare policies that are impacting the nation. We have that independence to be able to create those bespoke relationships. Because every entity is looking for ways to cut costs first of all, but also deliver the mental health care their teams need be more accessible and open to diverse populations, but also utilize their benefit packages as a great way to attract and retain the Best and brightest talent and healthcare companies are passing those rising healthcare costs onto the employers who then pass them onto their employees. So by utilizing EqualityMD in conjunction with their existing ESI employer sponsored insurance plans, we're able to save employers 20% in their healthcare costs per year and the employees 25%. And all the while being able to deliver culturally competent care to diverse communities across the country. All right, fantastic. And one more kind of off the script question and I promise I'll get back on my script for you, but would love to maybe just one or two tips again from my research on you, Justin, just seeing that you've been connected with accelerator programs, pitch contests, like all the cool, scary things that a lot of folks, you know, when they're thinking about entrepreneurship, they, these are some of the things that may kind of talk them out of it. Any tips just from your experience, like how have accelerators supported you, your business, or you know, the whole pitch process? Just any tips to encourage them again as part of the process, part of the journey. And is it worth it? I guess may be the question. Yes and no. If you're risk adverse, don't do it. Know yourself. If you don't have a full understanding of who you are, if you're just a truly risk averse person. Not to give any bad names to the bean counters out there, but a lot of accountants are risk averse. You have to be able to embrace risk and understand that failing is moving forward, not setting you back. And that's, that's something a lot of people don't understand is the ability to fail forward. And I don't think that all the accelerators, I don't think that our company owes our success to our accelerators that we've been through. We wouldn't be here but for them. But a lot of times accelerators, even some of the best, there are folks there that haven't been founders themselves. And this is me going off on a real tangent, but particularly in the VC world, which is cutthroat, I can't stand it when there are college students that graduate and then go into some master's program of venture capital and then start sitting on as associates in VC firms or even, God forbid, LPs. They have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to running a business. They might have the book smarts, but they don't have the street smarts. And I think you need both. You need to be able to say, I did that, I fucked up, that's okay. But we learn from that. Not to discount their capacity to do what they need to do. But having that understanding, I think, is really important. So it's our job as founders not just to praise the almighty VC because they have giant stacks of money, which they're not giving to anybody, but also educate them. We understand that they are inundated with applications, and they often just don't have the time to give each application the time it's due. And with that understanding in mind, you suddenly realize, oh, you have to get to 99 nos to. To 1, maybe, and that's okay. But understanding the process and knowing what you're getting into and knowing that it's not all rainbows, lollipops, and unicorns, it's anything but that, that really will help you. And if you're okay with that, dive in feet first. Yeah, no, Justin, again, I appreciate just exploring that side of this conversation because since I've been in my own business, I've just kind of come with this realization. I wish every healthcare leader could take, like a sabbatical for a year to go start a business and to get, you know, all the way in. Because I've said entrepreneurship, it's a full context board. Like, you can't read about it. You can't, you know, like you said, go to college and learn about it. Like, you just have to do it. And so, no, I appreciate just having your insights. It's like being a trial lawyer. Like, I learned all the, like, the rules of evidence and all the. The crap you need to learn to go do what you need to be. But if you're not, don't have that in courtroom practice, you're useless. The same is true for, I think, any job, whether you're a welder, a driver, a lawyer, and you just have to have that real world experience. Yeah. Well, I mentioned my son. He just started playing football this football season, and he was watching videos on YouTube about different skills, techniques, and I was like, we're not watching videos. Come on. And every day now we go outside, like, you have to do. So hands on experience is. There's no substitute. All right, let me. Let me switch. I'll get back on script. Justin, I appreciate the small diversion there, but no, you know, healthcare, I would say now, is evolving for me. I've been in the industry almost 20 years, as fast as ever. Curious, just from your point of view, Justin, what are some trends that you see out there in the healthcare landscape that you just feel is an absolute game changer for entrepreneurs, for healthcare leaders today and healthcare entrepreneurs even? Well, you can't get away with this answer without bringing up AI. AI is a game changer. How it is we're still kind of as a holistic healthcare sort of ecosystem exploring that their applications for it is not a silver bullet. Those that think it is, those that are banking on that have lost their minds. There is no such thing as a silver bullet for anything. There's no one magic solution that's going to solve all things, make all things go paperless for the love of God. Hospitals are still using fax machines. I don't think I've used one since 1997. And it's embarrassing. The idea of interoperability is incredibly important. If systems can't communicate with other systems, how are we supposed to deliver continuity of care? If the patient is asked the same question ten times within the same health system, that patient's going to get tired of answering those questions and probably walk out or even worse avoid seeking care. But I'll also, and this evolution is exciting, but we have to temper our expectations and utilize real world applications and do peer reviewed studies to be able to see what's working in the real world. Maybe in la, might not be working in Northern Virginia or Miami. And we need to have these, these understandings of this, the different applications of AI. But I also think healthcare is devolving and I think that the the increase of these mythical third parties like pharmacy benefit managers, they don't need to exist. Health payers, like all the payers out there, I don't want to name names because we do work with some of them for our data analytics side. It, it's just another way for the payers to make more money and double dip and it rises, it causes rising health costs for everybody. When I say devolve I mean no one is putting a cap on the rising health care costs. In 2026, health care costs are expected to rise 8.5% and then 5.4% every year to 2030. And it's the individual employees, because most Americans have their insurance to their employer that are bearing the brunt of this rising healthcare costs. And no one's really doing anything about it. And I think that's where there's a huge problem. And that's where health systems, but more so employers, whether they're small mid sized businesses or enterprise clients like Shell Energy or Capital One, they all need to really do a deep dive into thinking how can we leverage innovative solutions that don't exist within the broken system which is causing these rising health costs so that we can deliver Affordable care for our staff and attract the best talent, have the best productivity and not go bankrupt. And that's the, that's the question that a lot of healthcare companies are starting to ask now. How do we do this? Because they're so embedded within a system that's run by insurance companies, health systems and pharmaceutical corporations. And although we need them, I think there are better ways to utilize them by going outside the system and working in conjunction. It's hard for a lot of people to understand that concept because we're so brainwashed to think, I don't have insurance, I can't get healthcare. That's not, that's not the truth. So we can just unbrainwash that notion that insurance is the answer, because most of the time it's not. We'll be able to achieve healthier outcomes and a better understanding of how to engage the health system when we do need to. Now, I do have to ask, just to that final point, with some of the data you shared, have you started analyzing the projected impacts also coming with the one big beautiful bill and how that is going to impact healthcare? And definitely rural communities, kind of all of the above, because from my research so far, it's ugly. So I think, you know, I think your data that you just shared, probably worse than that. But I'm curious if those numbers kind of included that additional factor or, or in the progress. It's, it's an ongoing progress. It, that's still very new. I don't think we'll have the actual metrics from the, the repercussions of that new legislation for some time, but early indicators and common sense, it really paint a picture of a worsening health system where people are discouraged from seeking care, have their first clinical experience, be an urgent care clinic or an emergency department at a hospital. When that happens, healthcare costs rise for everybody and then it's passed down. So it's this vicious cycle. So we need to get people more engaged with proactive preventative care, maintenance care. And if we can do that, there are fewer emergency room visits, which cut down costs. And if we have more data about the patients we're serving, particularly things like social determinants of health, sexual orientation, gender identity, how we behave as a patient population, then powers that be will be able to make more decisions and reforms that can help eliminate some of those disparities. How the particular piece of legislation you mentioned, I don't even like calling it what it's called because that's not beautiful. I think it's going to be, we're going to look at it in a year or two. And say what? Unfortunately. Unfortunately, I'm right there with you. Yeah. I'm speaking at a conference next week and I've already folded those concepts into my conversation. It wasn't part of my original presentation. But you can't not talk about it, unfortunately. Well, let me, let me move to the next question, Justin. So we know there's always kind of the ups and downs, the bumps and bruises as we go through our career paths. I'm just curious to know if there was a pivotal moment or a challenge for you again, career wise or even entrepreneurship wise. And just, you know, how did, how did that experience help to shape your overall approach to leadership? You ever watched the Gold Girls? Yeah. Come on. Thank you for being a friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so members Sophia Petrillo. Picture it Sicily, 1922. Whatever. So picture it. Arkansas, outside Russellville. At three in the morning. I'm driving cross country from Richmond, Virginia to Los Angeles to participate in the Techstars Healthcare program hosted at the Cedars Sinai accelerator facility in West Hollywood. I get a call and, and saying that of the 12 companies we were the 12th to be admitted. EqualityMD was. And we were unceremoniously disinvited because one of the partners of the program, one of the larger payers that sponsored this program, had been working with another company and another startup internally. And because they have like the UN veto power, the Security Council, that they decided to supplant us with Company X, whatever they were doing. I still don't know what company it was. It doesn't really matter. So I'm halfway across the country in the middle of God knows where, and I get this call. I hang up, I circle the car. I'm halfway to la. I've already put a deposit down on an apartment for a year. And I say, well, there's this thing called the Cedar Sinai accelerator that's just its own thing, independent from techstars. And techstars has really been watered down in recent years as they continue to pop up and accept more folks not to discredit the organization. I just think that they've taken to a different path, one that ended up being good that we didn't get in. But I thought, I can apply to that and hopefully get in. And so I had the option fork in the road, go back to Richmond with my tail between my legs and regroup and figure out what the hell's next, or continue on to LA and figure it out. And no, no guarantees. So I said, Fuck it. Let's go. So I drove and made it from Richmond to LA in 48 hours. I wouldn't recommend it. Drove through some beautiful countryside. I had really high rates of speed and I loved the drive there because it was just open air and the scenery. I thought, anything is possible. I got there, I had the biggest imposter syndrome I'd ever have because I felt like I didn't belong. I felt like I'd set down this deposit on this very expensive apartment because LA rent is not cheap, particularly with covered parking. And so I met with the head of Cedar Sinai accelerator, Omar Perez. He said, we won't treat your application any differently. You won't get any street cred for getting into techstars, but we think you have a viable candidate. So out of 1500 applications submitted worldwide, we were one of 10 companies accepted into their fall program. And it was worth it every minute. Yeah, I appreciate hearing that. I'm a firm believer that everything tends to just work out the way it's supposed to. So if you make the effort, it's not luck. You make your own luck. That's how opportunities come. But you have to be able to, willing to take the risk. I could not have gotten into Cedars and that had happened. I would have adjusted, had Plan B through Z and figured something else out. But you have to be able to at least take that first step well. And kudos to you for seeing the process through because like you said, you could have just turned right back around and went back to Virginia, but you said, you know what, let's all in. So that was an all in gamble. Good stuff. I like that. Absolutely. I like it. I was born in Vegas, so I do like gambling. I seen your blood. So, Justin, man, when you think about some of the folks that have influenced your path, would love to know who stands out. But again, most importantly, is there a lesson that they've taught you that others can benefit from? 2 Liberace. He's my godfather. My dad was his musical director for 13 years and the only straight member of his inner circle. They were really a two man show. And Liberace's career was already great. But when he hired my dad in 72, he stole them from Elvis Presley, who my dad toured with Elvis from. My mom says your dad went working from the King to the Queen. When I was born in 81, my brother in 83, our births were announced at the Hilton, the Las Vegas Hilton, now called the Westgate Hotel, formerly the International Hotel, when Elvis performed there. And that birth announcement of mine is in the paper, which is really cool. And he announced my brother's birth at the MGM Grand. That's awesome. Librachi taught me, even at a very young age, always know your audience. And that means you need to be able to feel the energy from the group that you're presenting to and adjust your cadence, your language, your tone, your body language accordingly. And that skill takes practice. Like we're talking about earlier, you can't read books about it. You just got to go out and do it over and over and over. And I think the biggest experience that prepared me for that was teaching history to kids at a naval boarding school in rural England in between undergrad and law school. As Churchill said, two nations divided by a common language. I was completely out of my element, but loved it. That prepared me for law school, prepared me for entrepreneurship, and prepared me for life. Always know your audience. The second person I would say would be the judge I clerked with after law school in Virginia, Judge Charles Poston, who's now the head of the board of visitors for the College of William and Mary, where I went to undergrad. And he often stressed one of the restrictive principles of the First Amendment. Obviously, the first amendment has many elements, but let's just focus on speech. People think freedom of speech means you can do whatever you want, whenever you want, say anything, anytime, anywhere. Not true. Speech is limited by three words. Time, place, and manner. And of course, the textbook example is yelling fire in a movie theater. That is not protected speech. I think if we as entrepreneurs, we as healthcare leaders, we as just individuals navigating life, Take that concept of, is this the right time? Is this the right place? Am I communicating what I want to communicate in the right manner, or should I just keep my damn mouth shut? More often than not, you'll find staying quiet is often a better solution. Or if you do have something to say, make sure you follow Henry David Thoreau's philosophy of living deliberately. And you can only do that if you listen actively, really listen, Think critically. Don't just shout out something. Communicate effectively. Going back to knowing your audience and then act intentionally. That's. That's a lot of stuff to consider. But I think always knowing your audience, time, place, and manner, and trying to do your best to live deliberately, really, really hone in on what and who I am. Again, you know, the. Those three key points, you know, the season that we're in on the podcast here is all about leadership excellence. I think those three key points exemplify leadership excellence or leadership excellence. Mindset as best as any of the guests that we've had on a recent memory. And Justin, it sounds like I should probably also hit you up and see if we can get your dad on the podcast as well. Good luck with that. He's the last living member of Liberace's inner circle and he doesn't, he's one of those folks that has worked. He did seven albums of Barbra Streisand. He's, he's kind of a living legend. In many, he's very interesting guy but. He'S, he's very reserved about it. He says, you know, that people just put their pants one leg on at a time and I'm like, were Sammy Davis Jr. Charade partner for God's sake. Come on. I mean you shook hands with Frank Sinatra like in all the Ocean's Eleven movies. They have that code. But he's a Vegas legend and he's still going strong. He's in his mid-80s and still writing music. That is awesome. Well, it definitely sounds Justin, like you were cut to do some amazing stuff yourself having having a dad like that and the impact he's having. But no, again, I appreciate just those, those lessons from some very influential folks even to your first judge you work with there. For my next question, I, you know, just highlighting again healthcare, the landscape, all the, the ups and downs, all the changes right now. What do you see from your view of the world is just the single biggest challenge and perhaps the single biggest opportunity facing health care leaders. As I mentioned earlier, rising health costs, that's, that's going to impact not just employers, it's going to impact every person in America and there are only so many things people can do. I think employers are already looking, as reports are suggesting that came out this summer, particularly one from Mercer, they're exploring different ways to in many cases augment their employer sponsored insurance plans because there's only so much room they have to work with their payers that basically dictate what those plans look like. But the employers have some latitude in how they can counter that. And I think working with organizations that exist outside of the insurance based system that has broken our health system in my opinion are ways they can save money but also increase access to care for their employee base. And I also think data analytics in this age of AI, you can't discuss that without large language models and discussing how the implications of new data, data that has been previously under measured or not even collected from more or less invisible patient populations. And I say invisible because if they do show up to healthcare, clinicians for primary care, mental health, what have you. Oftentimes they're not answering questions realistically like how often do you drink or how often do you smoke? I mean, that's the one example. But then they go to do you think you're neurodivergent or you identify as lgbtq? The system has already put a structure in place whereby individuals who are the quote unquote other aren't comfortable sharing those types of things about who they are as a person. And those identifiable metrics matter when it comes to population, health, public health, health and rural communities, urban communities, black, white, rich, poor, young, old, all of it. And we need to be able to have more information so that we can make the right data driven decisions. And if the health entities out there that are dictating how we pay for and experience care, good, bad or ugly, if they have that information, they'll be more able to, fingers crossed, make those data driven reforms that encourage populations that are inherently invisible to become visible to share that information. And that's what we're doing at EqualityMD is we're capturing that new data that those larger entities can't because they don't have the trust of the communities they're trying to serve. And in healthcare, very intimate relationship, patient provider trust is the key thing. And so by establishing that, we're able to capture new data, anonymize it, and then sell that to the health entities that need it but can't access it on their own in the hopes that they will do the right thing and change how we perceive and receive care. Well, speaking as a former data analyst and data or healthcare process improvement professional, I will say I, I love the mindset and I'm curious to learn. And maybe this is where some of our audience can plug in as they check out this episode and hopefully reach back out and connect with you. You know, you, Justin and myself. Do they even have the skill sets internal to many of their facilities? I've been doing a lot of work with rural hospitals, for example. And you know, in a rural hospital you have a four person leadership team that are all wearing multiple hats. So can they, do they have the capacity to even take that and like you said, do the right thing or leverage it to the benefit of their communities, their organizations. So I say all that to say I see additional gaps coming, but I absolutely love the path that you're blazing, is long overdue and very much needed. Well, and to your point about the rural organizations, that that's a huge issue and the ability to Work close together and forge those public private partnerships and explore innovative solutions from startups I think is really the only path forward as we attempt to collect this information that can make healthcare better and cheaper for all Americans. Fantastic. Justin Mann, let me shift you into my rapid 2 minute drill. This is, you know, my, my version of just the hot seat part of the podcast. But you always love to make sure you're ready to go before I jump in. All right, Ready? Ready to rock and roll. Yeah, yeah, right on. Sorry, sorry. No, just. Man. The. The first question I have is a little bit of a two parter where I love to ask, what inspires you to do your best? And then share with us. How do you inspire others to do their best? What inspires me, I've got to go back to Star Trek because it's, it really goes back to this, the idea of strength through diversity. And I don't think we can get away from that. I recently heard prominent health officials say that diversity is not our strength. And it broke my heart because that's the furthest thing from the truth, I believe. And when I see others put themselves in intrinsically uncomfortable positions, that inspires me. When I see others get up on stage for the first time to do a pitch, to have the gumption and the willpower to just push through and fail fabulously and learn from it and laugh it off, that inspires me. And I hope I can aspire others to be constantly curious, question their own assumptions regularly, and continue to find ways they can address their own internal personal insecurities that we all have. But how we address them, how we even acknowledge their existence and then engage ourselves, as I mentioned, look within our own stellar galaxy to be able to find a way that is uniquely our own, to chart a path forward so that we can get past those insecurities and begin living more authentically as the really powerful beings that we are and find others who can support us. And we can support them because on our own, you know, we're, we're fine and dandy, but we're more powerful together. So like Lincoln did with his cabinet, find yourself and surround yourself with people who disagree with you so that you can continuously challenge yourself and challenge them civilly, of course, and see how you can come to a compromise, which is not a four letter word that benefits more than less. And I think that that's really what inspires me. And I hope I inspire others to do that. And again, I love that, Justin, because that is absolutely the season of thinking that we're on with the podcast. So I appreciate all of your insights just on that thought, this entire conversation. But, man, you just. I love when I find the great guests that I find. And Justin, you're living up to all the expectations right now, man. Will get you everywhere. Justin, what's the best piece of career advice that you've ever received? I think it's don't settle. And I think that goes back to the idea of mediocrity. And it also goes back to the idea of challenging your assumptions, fighting your own personal insecurities by acknowledging them and finding a path to overcome them. And the idea of settling, some might think, well, I'm, I'm settled, I'm happy. That's not what I mean. I mean, if. If we're constantly seeking to improve, and not everybody is, but if we are, then we are putting ourselves in those uncomfortable situations and doing so all the time. And in order to do that, the second best piece of advice is really show up. Show up to what? Show up to everything. Those things that you think, oh, I just don't want to get out of bed, it's raining. Who am I really going to meet there that's going to advance whatever it is I'm doing, or get me to the next level or get me to the next investor or whatever. Those events that you justify to yourself that you can miss, those are the ones where the magic happens. When you expect something by going to something, an event, you're not going to get what you want. You may, but you have to go and show up and do so consistently. Otherwise you, you aren't making a name for yourself. And in so doing, you're not putting yourselves in those positions where you can learn from others, where you can grow as an individual outside of your own comfort zone. Fantastic. And if you could rewind time, knowing what you know now, what's one thing you would do differently in your leadership journey? Make more mistakes faster. And I've made plenty. For example, hiring too fast. They always say hire slow, fire fast. I have done a remarkable job, even with a quality md, of hiring some folks who aren't bad people but just weren't the right fit. But I was so excited that I didn't do my own due diligence and take it a step further to make sure that it was the right fit. The same is true for VCs. Not all money is green. Certainly when you're in a financial crunch, everything looks like money and everything looks green, but it's not. You can come up, wind up with strange bedfellows and while that can sometimes be a good thing, particularly if it challenges you and you sort of build off each other, it can also lead you down a path that you. It's hard to come back from. So I would suggest to myself, learn from these lessons sooner and faster. Do you have a book, a podcast, or a publication that has been crucial to your development as a leader? You know what? I sure don't. I have been a voracious reader my entire life. I consider myself a student of life. I often describe myself as someone who has the mindset of a philosopher, the heart of a poet, and the spirit of starship captain. In everything I do, Curiosity is my true north star. That means I just consume. But at the same time, there is so much out there, it's hard to find good material that bites through the noise. And authors, for example, that aren't just repeating and extending one concept out into an entire book and say, buy my book. I think that the I don't have a resource I turn to. I rather utilize the dearth of life experience that I've had, especially the bad and the ugly, not just the good, to learn from, reflect upon and look back on and say I did a kick ass job on that. How could I have done better? Or God damn, I really screwed that one up. What could I have done better? What should I have done better? And having conversations with others. I think that more than published works or audio podcasts or interviews, it's really having those, those intimate conversations with people who've been where you haven't that can add a layer of depth to your own understanding of any situation so that you can continue to improve yourself. Now, I'm not saying don't read books, but do so, but do so with that whole time, place and manner into consideration because the most valuable asset any of us have is time. Well, and you know, to your point there, one of the things I often say on this podcast is that a lot of times I feel like this podcast is really for me because I get the benefit of talking to you first and having this conversation. So I guess I want to capitalize on the thought of what you just shared there. So I always ask that question and I, I truly hope the folks in the audience goes and plugs in with the different resources that my, my guests share. But we're going to end this in just a few minutes. Justin. I'm going to say, hey Justin, how can folks connect with you? So I, I just want to say to our audience, that's the most important part of the conversation to me is you just heard a great speaker like Justin and many of the previous guests. Are you connecting with them to keep a conversation going, to find somebody to add to your network, your circle that can challenge your thinking or help you push forward in any of your thinking and your actions. So I just wanted to capitalize on that because this podcast is really for me. I'm just sharing it with others. Right. But it gives me a chance to explore how I think about the world and business and all the things I do. So again, I appreciate having these conversations. Just want to encourage my audience to do what you just said, which is go, you know, go get hands on with the experience and live that life. You're going to learn a lot more as well. Absolutely. Maybe, maybe there is a book that changed your life. Find the author, speak with them. Like, don't, don't just sit there and look at page 46, the highlighted section. Go out and do something about it. You gotta talk to people. And if the stop the moment we stop engaging, we stop living. One of my favorite authors just told me to like stop texting, you know, stop messaging him. But I've invited him onto the podcast, like I would really? He's like, I'm not coming. No. Anyway, yes, engage with the people that are inspiring you is exactly. Kudos to you for making the effort because getting a no is a perfectly good answer. And I was like, all right, cool, we'll keep it moving. Listen, man, first, again, I can't thank you enough for this time. I know I think we probably went over our normal playing time, but it's truly meant a lot to me. Before I let you go, I would love to ask, you know, what are you most excited about achieving over the next year and how are you planning to celebrate those wins? I'm excited about, of course, as a founder achieving some fundraising goals. We've received some unexpected demand from small mid sized businesses, nonprofits across the country that are impacted by either partisan health policies or payers ever volatile plan changing. And they're looking to us as independent from that, to be able to help them. So the funds that we're seeking will allow us to engage these entities in a very meaningful way, craft bespoke relationships so that we can help them achieve their metrics, be they employee acquisition, retention, higher satisfaction ratings from customers, or just more engaged, healthier employees and save money in the process while providing affordable, culturally competent care and doing those things over the next years, growing our partnership base expanding across the country. We have patients from Florida to Alaska. It's great. And being able to do that, that's. I'm really excited about that. The future is. There's so many uncertainties out there these days, and it's easy to think, oh, the world's on fire. But it's hard to sometimes have that optimistic mindset. But I think we need to fight to keep that, and I certainly do. Even when I hear no from an investor. I love hearing no because that means I'm not hearing crickets. So keep pushing yourself, keep doing engaging others, and that's what I do every single day. So I hope to engage with others who hear this either via LinkedIn or my email, justinqualitymd.com and certainly visit our website, equalitymd.com and I'm more than happy to answer any questions, whether you're an individual, represent an organization, a nonprofit, or a business of any size. Well, Justin, again, thank you so much for your time. For everyone tuning in, just want to thank you for choosing the Excellence in Healthcare podcast. I hope today's conversation was truly a value add. And if nothing else, I want to encourage you to go off and explore strange new worlds and have adventures that you probably wouldn't normally have. This is Jarvis and Justin, and we are officially signing off. Cheers. Thank you.