Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonnca
Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonnca
Wisdom at a Cost: John Matthews' Journey From Trauma to Recovery
"Wisdom at a Cost" isn't just the title of John Matthews' book—it's the thread running through his extraordinary life story. In this deeply moving conversation, John opens up about growing up in a household dominated by his father's alcoholism and abuse, and how that environment set the stage for his own battle with addiction.
This is only part one of John's powerful story—tune in next Friday as we continue exploring his journey from addiction to redemption.
Purchase his book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-At-Cost-Survival-Leadership-ebook/dp/B0F4XBTKF7
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Check us out to hear the latest on life in the volunteer state. Yvonca and her guests discuss everything from life, love and business with a Tennessee flair. It's a Tennessee thing, always relatable, always relevant and always a good time. This is Talkin' Tennessee, and now your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2:This episode is brought to you by the Landis team, your go-to real estate family in East Tennessee. If you are looking to buy or sell, we are the ones you should call. Give us a call at 865-660-1186 or check out our website at YvoncaSellsRealEstatecom. That's Yvonca Y-V-O-N-N-C-A salesrealestatecom.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonneka. I am your host and I am here with a dear friend that just wrote a fantastic book. His name is John Matthews and he wrote a book about wisdom at a cost. Welcome.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me Excited to be here.
Speaker 3:Most definitely Viewers. This book is one of those you want to run out and grab you a copy of it, because I'll tell you this when I picked up the book, I read the first chapter and the title. Let me say the title. It does get you okay, but it's just real, it's raw, and he's talking about his journey from childhood to becoming an adult and now where he's at today, and so I'm so honored to tell your story.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you. Thank you, I um uh, I appreciate you saying that it uh, it's not easy writing a book.
Speaker 3:No, it's not. It's not easy writing a book, no, it's not, it's not easy writing a book.
Speaker 3:And I'll tell you I've wrote a book before and I'll tell you the more personal you are about your journey in life. It's good and bad. I'll say that because it will take you back to places that you felt like you got over. Because it will take you back to places that you felt like you got over. You felt like you've healed from that type thing and you realize it still stings a little bit. But the best part about it is to me is it tells you about you. It really it's a personal thing writing a book, especially with his journey. Let's start with a good question who is John Matthews?
Speaker 4:I, you know, I'm just a young boy at heart that's still trying to make it in the world. You know, just like anybody, try to learn from our mistakes. Try to, you know, understand the wisdom that that's being presented to me. And as as we get older, we just want to make less of them Mistakes.
Speaker 3:We do.
Speaker 4:You know it's. We're not going to stop making mistakes, we just want to make less of them.
Speaker 3:And we want to use wisdom. I feel like in the right way. And our life to me, the older you get, is simplified, and so it's like, okay, I've learned from this. How can I help others to learn? You know, I know with me. It's like I try to tell young people certain things that, hey, if you learn it at this age, imagine when you get to my age how strong you're going to be. But I'll tell you, I come from a small town, you come from a small town, and let's talk about what it's like growing up in a small town and having trauma from childhood. What was your childhood like?
Speaker 4:That's a good question. You know I didn't understand this word codependent. It gets tossed around a lot in mainstream and until I really understood, because I threw it out like I knew what it was, hey, I'm codependent. I'm codependent and had it really all wrong. And you know, essentially, if you have a parent that's an alcoholic or addicted to anything drugs of any sort and they have this dependency that is controlling their livelihood, their choices, their decisions as a parent, everybody around them then becomes codependent to their dependency and breaking from that is extremely hard. The household I grew up in was a family of five. I have a twin brother. We are fraternals, we do not look alike, but he is bald, just like, like I.
Speaker 4:Uh, we weren't going to escape that, uh, that family tree, but no um, so I have a twin brother and an older sister family of five, uh, and my father was actually married once before and the the marriage before it lasted about five years. He had one daughter left when she was about two years old. And just to kind of give you a comparison of the household I grew up in and this idea of codependency, two, you know, mom remarried. She had a stepfather, has a quote unquote normal life. She's been married 30 plus years, two boys growing up. You know, most would consider a successful marriage and a normal life versus the house that me and my brother and my sister grew up in. All three of us were in and out of jail and all three of us were on drugs from this chaotic environment and that really, you know, is the, in my opinion, the driving factor of most of my bad decisions.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:Growing up in that type of environment.
Speaker 3:Well, one thing that being your father, especially with you being a man, a lot of young boys pattern after their fathers. They do, and they look up to their fathers, and so you're seeing your father spiraling out of control. What was it like to be in the household with your dad on a day-to-day basis? What was it like? Was he a functional alcoholic or was he a crash alcoholic?
Speaker 4:He was absolutely a functioning alcoholic, okay, but externally, when he'd be out in public, people loved him. You know, he was charismatic, he did all the great things, but when he came home it was just a different person and the best way I can describe it is he was just not healed from his own childhood. You know his father left when he was a young age. He had a stepfather that was, you know, abusing his sister when they were really young. So there's there's an avenue there that can cause his childhood trauma. But instead of being a man and actually going to deal with it and heal from it, he just wanted to take it out on everybody else. He eventually got sober, you know, at some point when we were still in early adolescence, but that, you know, still walked on eggshells when you were around.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he basically got up every day and to the public he was this great person. But to his children, and wife and wife. Yes, uh, he was this person that wasn't that kind at a very young age. How did that um start out your path?
Speaker 4:Well, I didn't know. People live differently. You know when you're, when you're in that environment, you have nothing to compare it to. So I just thought that's what normal everyday life looked for all kids and I didn't really put it all together until I had a child of my own.
Speaker 4:You know, back to what you said, that some people grow up, want to be like their fathers, they look up to them, and I think this is, uh, you know, certainly the case in a lot of people's lives where their father is an alcoholic and all these things, and they grow up to be an alcoholic or, uh, they do want to do the total opposite. And this, essentially, was what I did. Um, you know the way, the way that he treated us versus the way I treated my daughter, two totally different individuals, totally.
Speaker 3:And let me say this A lot of times people don't understand. There's two ways. Ok, either you grow up and you realize I want to be a better parent than the parent I had, than the parent I had. But then there's other sides that pattern their self right after that parent and go into being the abuser in their children's lives. Was was he physically abusive to you and your brother and sister?
Speaker 4:Both physically and verbally. Just the worst part was the demeaning, the demoralizing into everybody, and I think he did it just to, to make himself feel better.
Speaker 3:you know, Um but did he ever try to get help or did he not see it as I need help?
Speaker 4:Yeah, he was very proud, you know very egotistical, um and no, he, to my knowledge he never tried to seek help. If he did, it didn't, it didn't show.
Speaker 3:How did your mom deal with the day to day? If you don't mind me asking she had her own vices.
Speaker 4:She was, you know she was addicted to food. You know just kind of she ate her way to happiness. If you will spent money, she liked this. You know shopping, you know all these things that kind of vices and she put up with it. You know, and I think she was the first one in the family that filed for divorce and I mean that, like in our intermediate family, it just wasn't heard of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Especially back then. No, and back then a lot of families were taught that don't bust up your family. Yeah, you know, no matter what, even though you're telling people to stay in an abusive relationship and you're not thinking about because I can literally say I didn't grow up in an abusive relationship, but my family, I didn't see divorces, and then my mom and dad got a divorce and was angry at first, but after a year, after they separated, I realized that my parents needed to get a divorce because it can make you dysfunctional. You know that type of thing at a very young age, so I know that you probably endure that yourself and your mom probably had a sense of let down. I'm letting my family down. I'm letting my children down, you know, by separating, especially if she's never seen it in her family.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, watching it there are some things. Looking back I'm thinking why didn't she leave then? But you know, we didn't even know as kids that that's an option. Right you know you're so young and so innocent and just.
Speaker 3:And most kids don't want to see their parents separate anyway. No no, for whatever reason. They want the family to stay together.
Speaker 4:And it's more common now. I feel like if you go to any school system, the majority are now parents that are not together, versus when we were younger, you know the majority of our parents were together and the anomaly was the ones that divorced. But you know, I remember a time where you know where our bedroom is at in the hallway they had this argument and he kicked in. You know, broke the. She locked herself in the room to protect herself and he's kicking down the door oh wow in front of our and our doors open, so um so you're looking back, there was no boundaries.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was like, why didn't she leave then?
Speaker 3:right now. Um, some women. I'll say, uh, I've talked to some women in the past and they say I just didn't have the strength to do it. Um, but you look back and you think you know why didn't you leave? And then let's talk about this A lot of times back then, even some. Now a lot of women stay in it for the financial aspect of it because say that they not working.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they feel like yeah.
Speaker 3:how can I do this on my own? How am I going to take care of my children? I don't want to be homeless. I don't want my kids to be homeless. I don't want them to come out of what they are used to, but it's still abuse, yeah. So what were your emotional and physical consequences of reaching for turning to drugs?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that, uh that yeah, that that it happened slower but faster than I, than I thought, I guess. In some senses I was 13, 14 years old. I was hanging around some friends in middle school that that smoked weed, you know Right, and the only thing I wanted to do was smoke cigarettes because I just thought I was cool. So I'd steal cigarettes from my dad, or you know, this friend that smoked weed would bring a pack of cigarettes that he got from his older brother and we would ride four-wheelers.
Speaker 3:And that was at 13?.
Speaker 4:This is at 13 years old, yeah.
Speaker 3:Very young age, very young age.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you know, one day we're out in the woods. I actually am originally from South Florida, so this is in a part of South Florida that was in the middle of the Everglades. There was nothing around. It wasn't a large city, it was very, very rural.
Speaker 3:Very rural, very rural yes.
Speaker 4:And you know very rural, yes and uh, you know, of course, probably wasn't much to do, not much to do. Um, you know we weren't tracked on a life 365 app.
Speaker 4:Right, you know just what we have now, what we have now, you know you're out there just doing whatever you're wanting to do, um, and then, just one day I was out of curiosity, just like hey, let's, you know, I'd like to get high. And of course my friend's eyes lit up like he's like. Finally, you know, I've been smoking by myself this whole entire time and you know everybody talks about that peer pressure. I didn't see that. I didn't have that. He didn't say you know, oh, we need to smoke. You're such a you know, s did his thing, I did my thing. Until one day I was just like curiosity kills the cat, I guess, right, right. And I remember when I got home, nobody found out. Sky didn't fall, you know.
Speaker 3:I didn't go to jail, you know all these things, I got to do what I wanted to do and I got away with it. And you got away and I got away with it. You thought you got away with it. I thought I got away with it.
Speaker 4:Keep going and so from there progressed into trying new drugs, which, oddly enough, the next two drugs I tried was acid and cocaine. So if you think about just going all in.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:You went to the extreme, went to the extreme.
Speaker 3:Did anybody in your family at that time know you were doing anything? Your siblings?
Speaker 4:No, and they were not. You know my older sister. See if I was 14, she was 16. She was driving.
Speaker 3:Okay, so she had her own thing.
Speaker 4:But was certainly not in drugs Now smoking cigarettes probably, Drinking beer probably, you know. But we didn't hang out because I was, you know, young and she's the cooler older sister, right, Right, she's now a junior sophomore, junior in high school driving, and her younger brother's still in middle school, so you know.
Speaker 3:So did your twin hang out with you, or did y'all just have your own set of phones?
Speaker 4:No 100 percent, he and I.
Speaker 3:OK, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's because you know dad didn't really, because you know dad didn't really, he, he did enough to my sister, not sexually or not physically, but enough to, to you know, make her make bad choices and self-esteem. But now my brother and I being males, no holds barred. The crazy thing is I don't remember most of the time. You know I got beat, but I remember all the ones he did. It's almost like you kind of disassociate at the time, but you know there's, there's a couple of things kind of blocked out of your mind that I remember just my brother and just wishing I could help.
Speaker 4:But I couldn't. You know, he's obviously four times my size, so he and I always stuck together. We had, we shared a room together.
Speaker 4:You know, you're a twin, you know we all have best friends and we all have these, these friend groups that we have throughout adolescence, whether it's elementary school, middle school, high school. Sometimes it's one person that goes through all those stages with us, but maybe eventually they move on, whereas, you know, I still got this guy. I'm 44 years old and my best friend is still alive and still knows everything about me.
Speaker 3:And I can trust, and I can trust and I think viewers, I want to put this out here you know, childhood trauma is real, it's real and every everybody doesn't deal with trauma the right way. I'll say that. I will say that you, I believe that you have to rise up from the trauma. You can't allow the trauma to consume you.
Speaker 3:And that's not saying that it's easy, and so I wanted to put that out. There is that you know so many people out here have childhood trauma that they haven't dealt with. So me and John's coming together to show you how he dealt with it, how you know he made bad choices, you know, and he owns it. That's the best part is you own it. So my next one is how did methadone help? How did that come into your?
Speaker 4:story. Yeah, so fast forward a few years of bad choices. I was kicked out of my house. And as soon as I turned 18, a couple weeks after I turned 18. And so I still was in high school, still had to try to finish high school because I'm one of those February babies.
Speaker 3:School because I'm one of those February babies and and so being homeless at that time and and not knowing where to go or how to, did you? Hear him say he was homeless. Yeah, ok, let me go back. Yeah, one thing, because there's IV drugs that was in there. Yeah OK, let's go back some. Okay, how did you get from smoking cigarettes to weed, to acid cocaine and now shooting up? Take us back.
Speaker 4:That started, coincidentally enough, in this term that I talk about in the book. This, this addict brain, this voice inside of her head, that's well, it's our own voice. It sounds just like us and it knows exactly what we need to hear to convince us to make a bad decision. And in this, in an addict form of it, it's a strong voice and it it's patient. It waits for the right opportunity to just kind of come on in and tell you what you need to hear. So you just make a bad decision. And the crazy thing about this voice and not to go on a side tangent here but if, if I was to tell you why I'm about to make this bad decision, you just look at me and say no, that sounds like the dumbest thing I ever heard, but to me it makes complete sense and it's not meant to convince you or anybody else.
Speaker 4:So if I verbally speak it out of like, hey, I'm going to go shoot this pill in my arm and this is why I mean you just be like, well, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like that sounds crazy.
Speaker 3:So most people do it in silence.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they do it in silence and um, and that voice is not meant to convince anybody, but you, it's your voice, it's your attic brain, it's it's, you know, and we all have our own vices and you have that voice inside your head and maybe I'm going to not get up today, I'm not going to go work out today. I'm, whatever it may be, or I'm gonna, I deserve this cookie. I'm about to go eat. You know, I've been eating clean for a week.
Speaker 4:I get up one piece of cake, you know, um that's true where, whereas I would say now you know, you told me you're gonna be on this diet. Why are you giving up?
Speaker 3:but you right in your mind, your own, so oh I can have this, you know, even though you're affecting yourself throughout that you know, I've been trying to eat cleaner lately and and I'm over here like, okay, so if I make this salad, but if I put a whole bunch of dressing on it, am I really eating cleaner?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:And so you probably in your mind felt like okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know it's going to be okay. I'll try it one time. I, you know, I. You know it's gonna be okay. I'll try it one time. I you know, I, you know. I hear people say that I'll try it one. I've tried it one time.
Speaker 4:Thought it was gonna be just a one-time thing and they were automatically well, and I bring it into this, uh, next portion, because I was a bartender and so, um, when I took a hydrocodone, which is just a pill that you get from a doctor, that might do some surgery or maybe had a wisdom tooth taken out.
Speaker 4:You know something, and my brain, my addict brain, correlated with me taking that to make it more money as a bartender. It was more personable, I was Johnny on the spot, you know people like me, okay, um, and so I deserve to make more money, right?
Speaker 3:right, so why not take another pill every time I worked? So was you at home then still at home?
Speaker 4:I or had you already moved out. So my first dabble into hydrocodone was still at home, still in in high school. Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, there's a story I tell in a book about the ripple effect and, and you know, casting that first stone and you don't really know, it could be a ripple of generosity or it could be a ripple of, you know, detriment. And I've casted both. You know, uh, one you wish the ripples would stop immediately and the other one you're cheering on the sideline that they keep on going. But essentially, uh, I was still in high school when I, when I first dabbled into it. But when it took a turn for the worse, it was where I was consistently taking them every day off the streets, and that was when I was already kicked out. I was, you know, over 18 years old now and that's when it really, from 18 to about 22 years of age were probably the worst. I think I just counted it up the other day I had, by the time, november of 1999, which I would have been 18, six, seven months by then.
Speaker 3:Okay, Eight months maybe Okay.
Speaker 4:Was arrested four different times.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and they did stop there. I mean, I was arrested multiple times after that too.
Speaker 3:So let's go back to your dad.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:When all this was going on? Did he know?
Speaker 4:The first time I was ever arrested. He knew, but the other ones I don't know if he knew but what?
Speaker 3:what was his reaction to it? Did he just? Did he bail you out?
Speaker 4:he actually did. He actually came and picked me up. Yeah, I didn't know it's who to call. I was uh, but it was.
Speaker 3:I was under age, I was 17 17 I was 17 and so the man that introduced you to an addiction yeah, okay, showed you his addiction was picking you up from jail called.
Speaker 4:I think they called him is. I didn't call okay, yes, oh, 17, they probably did yeah, um, but no, then the other ones, um, I just called a bail bondsman. You know, nobody had to know, except for the bail bondsman, and she was great. She'd always sit out there and say what did they accuse you of now, john? I mean, she was always in my corner. So you had a relationship with the bondsman, can you believe they said I was doing this, which clearly I was guilty?
Speaker 3:Yes, but she, but again, you had somebody, a bondsman, tell, basically tell you, it's okay, you know, I'm gonna come get you. You know that type thing, even though they were getting paid, you know that type thing.
Speaker 4:But as ace bonding, by the way, if you ever need to get bonded.
Speaker 3:I don't even know if she's still doing it or yeah, that was 20 something years ago, but you think about that, that the bondsman was telling you hey, john, what John, what they do to you this time.
Speaker 4:So, as I didn't have the money to pay her, she would just say come by my house, she let me. I knew where she lived and I would just go give her money as a bartender. So as I made money, I paid my debts off to her.
Speaker 3:Really, oh wow.
Speaker 4:She was a great woman.
Speaker 3:So by that time he was 18. Yes 18 years old you. You got popped on the hand several times, you know four times arrested. So where did you go from there?
Speaker 4:you know, just irresponsible, all the things, and didn't even see my life as spiraling. You know, I just thought it was normal. The group of friends I was hanging out with also went to jail, so like, it just seemed like this is just normal and then, once I was introduced to Oxycontin, you know, clear into I was probably 20, 21 years old, Addicted to that oh my gosh, so many people got addicted to Oxycontin Crazy.
Speaker 4:And you know again. I remember the first time I was introduced to it. I remember where I was at. I remember it was a 40 milligram Oxycontin, which is a yellow pill. I remember watching this guy.
Speaker 3:That sounds like a lot. Is that a lot? Sounds like it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, if you were to compare it to this surgery, this wisdom teeth that we just, you know, talked about.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 4:Those are typically five milligrams of hydrocodone.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh.
Speaker 4:And um, but you just said 40. I'm sorry, um, um, uh, oxycodone, okay and um, and so 40 is what you're taking all at one time, and essentially it's about eight of those. I mean, you think about it, five milligrams times eight, that's 40. So you would have to take eight of those pills at one time To equal up to that one To equal up to that one.
Speaker 4:And really, pain clinics. Now that I didn't know this then, I know this now, but essentially both can be prescribed to a patient. So if you are in immense amount of pain and you went to a pain clinic, they can prescribe you both of these drugs. And essentially the oxycontin is meant for a time-released, long-term, long-acting um pain, uh, you know, um did you start using it?
Speaker 3:was you getting those off the street? Yes, absolutely so none of that was from a doctor anything like that one point time.
Speaker 4:Now, I'm sure it originally came from somebody's doctor, just not my own, you know. So none of that was from a doctor, anything like that. No, not at one point in time. Oh my goodness. No, I'm sure it originally came from somebody's doctor, just not my own, you know.
Speaker 3:So you did IV.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was a little bit later Beginning, just if the viewers don't know. You take the coating off this pill. Okay, to take this time. Release portion off of it and then you crush it up and you're going to snort it up your nose and that's where you're going to get it all at one time, versus you just taking it, swallowing it, and it's supposed to act about 12 hours. If the same patient that has chronic pain is taking Oxycontin morning and evening or even three times a day, if there's at any given time some intermittent pain to where they just are overwhelmed with it, they go to their medicine cabinet and they can pull out the same pills that we get from our dentist and take for a short time, just an extra little pain relief at that moment.
Speaker 4:So, patients can be prescribed both. That's a lot. It's a lot, that's a lot.
Speaker 3:Especially, you're at a young age. You're hanging out in the streets, you're hanging with your friends. You know you've got a father at home spiraling out of control. At that time, was your mom and dad still together?
Speaker 4:Yes, them spiraling out of control. At that time, was your mom and dad still together? Yes, he was. No, he finally got sober and they were still together. My brother was living with me, my sister was living on her own, ok, and but eventually my mom did leave my father through all this and he would eventually come back and apologize to me, knocked on my door one day and didn't know who was at the door, and I opened it up and it was him.
Speaker 3:Was you receptive of it?
Speaker 4:Well, the apology at that point was for him kicking me out and basically cutting me off, you know, and that.
Speaker 3:Did he know you were on drugs then?
Speaker 4:He knew I was on drugs. I don't think he knew how severe my addiction was. I don't think he knew that I was addicted.
Speaker 3:Did he realize that part of what he showed you?
Speaker 4:No, absolutely not. Did he showed you? No, absolutely not. Did he take any?
Speaker 3:No, did he Never took any accountability for that.
Speaker 4:No. And looking back, I was like, look, you knew that I was going down this path and that never but one time that you stop and, as a father, say, hey, son, this is what I did and this is how I came over my addiction. And I can see the same thing in you that I, that I had.
Speaker 4:No, not one another, never he just came to tell you that I'm sorry for kicking you out yeah, and the only reason he came to apologize, because my mom left him and he was all by himself and he probably thought that would help him with your mom maybe maybe, or just you know, nobody else would, uh, you know, be around him and he was just trying to.
Speaker 4:You know, I remember, after I went to therapy, which anybody that's listening, I would always recommend go talk to somebody um no matter what, even if you're the healthiest mindset you've ever been in your entire life, if you go actually talk to somebody, you'll I believe in therapy. Yeah, you'll understand, um, understand why you think the way you do. You know these individuals, these, these counselors that are sitting across from us. They've seen thousands of patients with the same stories and they can easily put you in a category and say, hey, I've seen 900 other patients that had your same story and here's what they do. And you're like, oh, I do that.
Speaker 3:And say, oh, okay, oh okay I think a lot of people look at therapy and viewers. I really want you to understand this. Um, therapy is not just for a drug addict yeah therapy is not just for um someone.
Speaker 3:Therapy helps in so many ways. I went through a divorce. I went to therapy and I went to therapy because, to be honest, I didn't want anybody else's opinion. I was hurting going through a divorce. I didn't know how to express what I was going through, and so I felt like if I went to therapy and talked to somebody that didn't, that's not my family, not my friends, any of that. There would not be judgment on a on a way of that person. If they were going to judge me, it would be judging me to help me to get past it, not what you really subscribe to.
Speaker 3:You see what I'm saying. And so, and then, even with when me and David had miscarriages, my doctor literally said I want you to go to therapy. You know you've had a lot of miscarriages. You just lost your father and you're not grieving. You went back to work. You didn't grieve. There's no way you grieved because you just went right back to work the week after all that happened to you. And so I want the viewers to understand that therapy is not just for a drug addict and but it's a great if you are, that you really need help and you feel like that you're at that breaking point and you don't have to be at the breaking point, it just to the point that you need help. There is so much help out there. Please talk about.
Speaker 4:I mean, even for my specific scenario, I didn't go to therapy until I was almost 40, if not 40 years old and I feel like I healed on my own, which I wouldn't recommend. I'm not trying to say that, but just that through guided meditation, a lot of running and, you know, trying to decipher things in my own head, I was able to come through all this and plus, once you get over a drug addiction that's both mentally and physically binding to you and you kind of overcome that, you understand your mind in a different way and it's hard for me to explain that to somebody that's not done it, but it's sort of like you tap into a part of your brain that you didn't know you had control over. And then once you kind of, it's kind of of um, it's kind of like that courage and confidence, Like you have to have the courage to do something and the confidence follows later.
Speaker 4:It's like once you've done it, then you have the confidence like, well, I already did this, I could probably do this. And so, um, when I went to therapy, I was happy, I was, uh, probably thriving, uh, just built my house, I had a beautiful home. You know, things were better, things were better, and but when I went and I started talking to her, I was like, you know, here's what I do, this is what I do. And she just showed me a roadmap and she's the one encouraged me to go talk to my dad about my childhood. And here's the one who encouraged me to go talk to my dad about my childhood. And here's the crazy thing when I went to I don't say this in the book, but because- he was getting exclusive he's.
Speaker 4:He eventually had developed Alzheimer's, you know, and he got dementia and I had to put him in a, in a assisted living.
Speaker 3:So you had to take care of somebody that brought so much hurt.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there was nobody here. So my brother lives in South Florida. My sister's still wayward on drugs and in a jail to this day. Oh, wow. And then his first daughter lives in Florida as well and just wasn't a part of his life. I mean not that she didn't want to see him and didn't communicate to him. I mean she still had that yearning to know who her father was.
Speaker 3:She just probably wasn't vested.
Speaker 4:Yeah, as much as a child normally would. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because she wasn't in the home and she didn't have that relationship.
Speaker 4:No. And then of course, my mom remarried and of course she divorced him 18, 20 years ago. So I was all he had, and before he was to the point where he because he was still living on his own at this time she's like you need to, you know, you need to have a conversation with him. I think you're going to regret not and she's saying it from a point of hey, I have seen this in my practice and you have an opportunity not to regret it. You know, not that you will or won't.
Speaker 3:And let's stop there for a second second. I've literally told friends and family that same thing. If you cannot truly say, if something happens to this person and I did not go and air it out, you know I what I'm saying Just you know, even if you're saying you're the worst person there is, but not having that voice and not being able to say la, la, la, la, la, you know, to whoever it is, some people will have that regret and I've told people, even if you get the regret and you didn't get that moment, okay, you need therapy to get through that too, and it's okay. I want people to understand. This is that, say you did not get that moment, say you do have regret, okay, you are the child, okay, and sometimes you're just not there. You just you can't, you don't have the strength to do that. And it was great that a professional told you hey, john, you still have time, correct, you still. And you made the decision to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay after work yeah, and some people don't okay, I always didn't okay but yeah, it sounds like you probably would have regretted it if you didn't.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, I think the answer that I was given when I asked them said all I needed. It did give me closure, but probably not the closure that you think. But it was one day after work. His house was on the way to my house work, he, his, his house was, uh, on the way to my house, okay, so you know, of course, I simmered on this idea of talking to him about it for a while and uh, probably rehearse what you're going to say, you know how do you even bring it up.
Speaker 4:And so one day with just like I do a lot of things, I was just like, oh, today's the day, I'm just going going to go. I didn't think about it.
Speaker 3:So was you still on drugs then?
Speaker 4:No, this is fast forward. I'm 47 years old.
Speaker 3:Okay, you're 47 years old, you've already went through that and we're going to go back to a thing, but I want to finish this out. So you went to him and what?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm vice president of a multimillion dollar company this time.
Speaker 2:And I'm like.
Speaker 4:I decided to go by his place and I hey, dad, you home? Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have him stop by, okay, I mean I didn't even tell him why, so I pull in. Um, you know he's sitting in the same old chair. He got you know at this time he's been divorced from my mom, uh, 18 ish years, probably, maybe 16 ish years. Uh, he did remarry at one point time. That marriage only lasted like four lasted like four months, I'm sorry and the woman wanted to get an old because he was just that bad of a person Like she didn't know until she lived with him. It's crazy.
Speaker 3:So was he still an alcoholic.
Speaker 4:No, just a mean dude Just says things that you wouldn't want to say to a loved one, exactly, and she wasn't going to put up with it. She's like I'm going to get out as well I can. So I sit down at his apartment and I, you know, just shoot him straight. I'm like Dad, I kind of want to know why did you do all these things and laid it out on the table?
Speaker 4:And he just looked at me, maybe silent for like two or three seconds. He's like I don't remember any of that. Uh, can you hand me that remote control right there? Oh, I said, I sure can dad, I hand that remote control.
Speaker 3:I said I got to go and I left and that was it, and it's exactly you told him everything and he literally said I don't remember none of that, didn't try to recognize it, anything but that's. And viewers I'm glad you're sharing this. Okay, because I talk about. You can say do whatever you want, but the one thing you cannot control is how someone else is going to react. Yeah, and if you wait for that reaction, you could be wasting time, life and having experiences that are more pleasing to your soul happiness, that type thing because it sound like your dad. He didn't want to take ownership to anything. So it's easier to say, oh well, I don, well, I don't remember.
Speaker 2:I don't remember. Yeah, that type of thing.
Speaker 3:So what was? Let's go back a little bit about your drug use. What was the beginning of the change? What got you to realize I've got a problem and I got to address this?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it happened a lot, actually, actually, and it's hard to probably put in words, but you know the first few times when you actually don't have this drug. And so what that would look like is if I bought you know this is before I got on Oxycontin If I bought, or even when I was on OxyContin, let's say I bought 20 pills and I had enough to go to work take the pill. There was no problem. I mean, that's not like you would know, I was on this drug, except for my pupils being extremely pinpoint, but other than that there's no telltale sign. I mean, I'm not drunk.
Speaker 4:I'm not high. I'm not, you know, goofy or red, you know red-eyed from being, so nobody would know nobody knew, okay, and um, and so you can just manage this lifestyle for as long as you want until you either run out of money or you run out of the drug. And when you don't have money to buy the drug, or your dealer or somebody doesn't have any, that's when you start going through withdrawals and that's when you first get a taste of like oh crap, I'm like, I don't feel good.
Speaker 4:And like am I addicted to these things? And so then you start needing, seeing where you need it every day, just to function. And if you don't have money, there's things you can steal, you know.
Speaker 4:I remember, uh, things you can steal. You know, Um, I remember, uh, I mean, I stole too many things, broke bad checks up to probably $14,000 worth of bad checks. Um, you know, uh, did a lot, a lot of bad things just to feed this habit, things I would never do as a normal individual. And then, um, as soon as you got a supply back or as soon as you got more money, you felt like it just went on the back burner Like I'm good now, as long as this I could ride this train, I'm fine.
Speaker 4:Until it, you know, reared its head again and like you ran out of money or you ran out of the drug, and then that's when it became a problem.
Speaker 3:And was there a certain thing that happened? Finally address it.
Speaker 4:I tried to address it, uh, numerous times, and, and, and what would happen is this addict brain and this voice of mine, of all of ours, just whispered in my head see you quit. You didn't. You don't have a problem, it wasn't that hard. Look, you've not had one pill in a week. Two weeks a month. You're not addicted, you've got this, you're in control, you've got this. And so you'd go back and say, yeah, I'd like to have one. It's been a while. I got some money and you snort another one.
Speaker 4:And the next thing you know you're right back in the cycle. And then when I was eventually introduced to IV drug use, that's when things changed, you know, and I was at the time shooting 80s, you know. So that's we go back to that. You know, that pill that we talked about from the doctor, that's 16 of those bad boys at one time. And I would shoot five or six times a day.
Speaker 3:Was there a woman in your life?
Speaker 4:Yeah, there was the girl that I eventually married and had a daughter. With that I dated off and on and she didn't do any of this stuff Now.
Speaker 3:she partied and loved a good time, you know whether it was drinking or smoking, but she wasn't doing that. Did she know you were doing it?
Speaker 4:She did, and then I told her I quit. And then I hid it from her Once I told her I quit.
Speaker 3:So you went through the stage of hiding it.
Speaker 4:Oh, 100% yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, so what.
Speaker 4:And then when you get away with it, you know you can hide it. You're just like, okay, you know.
Speaker 3:So did you go to rehab?
Speaker 4:Did go to rehab, did you? That's where the methadone came in. Yeah, that's a um same guy that actually introduced me to shooting oxycontins eventually wised up and he enrolled himself into the methadone clinic and back in the late 90s, early 2000s, um the the same person yeah, okay, keep going. Yeah, it's crazy. Um he, uh, but yeah. So which is medical assisted treatment is what we call it, and that's methadone, suboxone, vivitrol.
Speaker 4:These are all the ones that you can give to a patient to help them off specifically opioids, which is heroin, fentanyl, oxycontins, hydro, yeah, hydrocodone, all these pills and so, um, essentially, back then, um, you know, we didn't have suboxone, it was just methadone, and I didn't know this at the time I wrote the book. I thought it was actually that we didn't have, uh, um, vivitrol either, but they did, and there was a um, it's a shot now, but back then it was was the thing that would cut your skin open and put like this foam underneath your skin. So it's, it slowly absorbs over like a month period of time. Crazy.
Speaker 3:OK, yeah, I didn't even know that existed.
Speaker 4:But anyways, this guy Matt. He ended up going to the methadone clinic and he asked me do I want to go with him? And I was like no man, I can do this on my own, like I don't need to trade one for another. That drug's even harder.
Speaker 3:Do you think he felt like, because he introduced you to, that he wanted to help you get off of it, because that's what he introduced?
Speaker 4:you to. It could be, but it was probably more, that we were just around each other all the time. It would just be like me, and you being best friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And instead of us going to a football game together, we're going to go get high together. I mean like, but you know, that's sort of, and then you only want to be around the people that want to get high. I'm not going to go hang out with somebody that wants to go to a football game, and do you know activities other than getting high, because getting high, because it's I mean, I don't want to do any of that this morning, right and so, um, and methadone is a lot stronger and a lot harder to to come off of than it is oxy so uh, I was like I've heard that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've heard that.
Speaker 4:But I was like really, and so he goes, uh, don't see him for a couple weeks actually a few weeks, maybe a months and he, he comes back and just good skin, no bags underneath his eyes, put on weight, looking good, was happy, was happy. And comes into my apartment and he says you got one for tomorrow. And of course I'm still strung out at this time, at this point in my life, I have rotten teeth, malnourished, you know, iv drug user track marks in my arm. I ain't got one for tomorrow. He said well, you didn't know this, but my first day down there I put your name on the waiting list and tomorrow's your day. And that changed my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I ended up calling my mom.
Speaker 4:Oh my goodness, I didn't have right not to answer that phone. You know I've lied to her thousands of times, so you went in. And she answered the phone when I called and she gave me the money and I went.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow. So you went into rehab and went through the program and you came out. Did you have a relapse or anything like that?
Speaker 4:Not after that, no, not after that. Wow, did you have a relapse or anything like that? Not after that, no, not after that. Um, that, um now, uh, for the, for the viewers, the methadone clinic, um, unless it's changed. I'm not trying to throw shade, I am a proponent for MAT and I think it helped me and I think it will help everybody, and anybody that's in that situation should get on it. But, but there is no end in sight. If you want to be a patient at the methadone clinic for 20 years, they'll let you you know, really yeah.
Speaker 4:So that's why. But you know, you're still contributing to society, you're no longer stealing things and, as the addict, they still don't want to deal with the demons inside their head. And you know, essentially, about a year later is when I detoxed off it.
Speaker 4:You know I was on 90 milligrams at the time. They took me off 10 milligrams a week. So nine weeks later I went through the withdrawals and you know that's when the real battle began. But that was my rock bottom and in the chapter 19 of the book I call it no one's coming, no one's coming.
Speaker 3:No one's coming.
Speaker 4:No one's coming.
Speaker 3:You're all by yourself.
Speaker 4:All by yourself. I put myself there and I was. The only person to get me out was me. And little by little I fixed my record, I fixed my teeth, I enrolled myself back in school.
Speaker 4:That was what I was about to ask you about EMT first and then became in the emergency yeah, at the time it was really great timing because, um, once I enrolled myself back in college and I was like, okay, I'm gonna be a fireman, you know, uh, the, the first thing I needed to do is become an EMT, because everybody that's like a, you know, not a, but it's something easily quote, unquote, easily achievable, but it's going to make you look a little bit better on the resume. So I enrolled myself at Walter State and started the process and when I graduated, became an actual EMT. That very month Wow, that actual very month the Knoxville fire department was hiring 40 new firefighters, which is unheard of right.
Speaker 3:Yes, I was about to say that very. I'm friends with a lot of firemen.
Speaker 4:It's just such a good job, nobody leaves it, you know unless somebody dies or they retire.
Speaker 4:I was about to say they're, they're not an opening. That's true, unless they're going to build a new station in an area and say, hey, we need, you know, 30 new firemen. But essentially Oak Ridge opened up a new fire department and they needed to staff it. In this I mean, which took, you know, 60, 80, 90. I don't know how many people, but they took it from the surrounding areas. And Knoxville had 40 firefighters leave and the Gatlinburg Fire Department had five leave.
Speaker 3:Is that what helped you to gain your identity? Now I'm off of drugs? Is that what helped you to gain your identity Now I'm off of drugs, now I've, you know, worked on my health and going down a healthy way? Is that what? Putting your time into service? Yeah, is that, is that OK?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what I'm taking from that. Yeah, my passion and my fulfillment, and still is to this day, is helping others, you know, and I think it stems from being wanted. You know, you grew up in a household that you don't feel loved or wanted and then these people are, you know, calling 911 for you to come help them and they want you there and you are helping them. I mean, it comes with a feeling that's, you know. You know I never experienced before and I was good at it, you know. I went to school um, it was the first time I was making A's on tests and and I graduated top of my class, got all kinds of accolades and awards from um, the college, um, and again, once I graduated, I applied at both Knoxville and Gatlinburg Fire Department because I didn't care who was going to hire me, but I did the physical agility test for both of them. I did the exam for both of them.
Speaker 3:And the.
Speaker 4:Gatlinburg Fire Department was just the one that called me back first.
Speaker 3:So for everything you went through, it really prepared you for something. We got to stop right there because you know what viewers we're going to do a part two, know what viewers we're going to do a part two. I'm going to bring him back next Friday because this story has not been told and we just need to keep it going. Let's go Next Friday. John Matthews.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonca. Watch out for our weekly episodes from the first family of real estate and check us out on the web, wwwyavancasalesrealestatecom. See our videos on Yvonca's YouTube channel or find us on Facebook under. Yvonca Landis and Twitter at Yvonca Landis. And don't forget to tell a friend about us. Until next time. Yvonca signing off.