Man Vs. Man Part 2 Ft. David Landes and Dr. Tyvi Small

The Takeover Continues! David and Dr. Smalls continue the conversation and talk about how society has a way of handing men a script: be tough, be in control, be the provider, never admit you need help. We push back on that script and talk about the quieter work that actually builds a life: knowing who you are, knowing whose you are, and refusing the labels that try to shrink you. 

This is a powerful conversation! 

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Yvonnca Landes
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Adrienne Landes
Realty Executives Associates
865.659-6860 or 588.3232

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Produced and engineered by: Adrienne Landes

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Transcript

Welcome And Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Always relatable, always relevant, and always a good time. This is Talking Tennessee, and now your host, Yavonka.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

This episode is brought to you by the Landis Team, your go-to real estate family in East Tennessee. If you are looking to buy or sell, we are the ones you should call. Give us a call at 865-660-1186 or check out our website at yavonka salesrealestate.com. That's Yavonka Y V-O-N-N-C-A Sales Real Estate.com.

Reclaiming History And Self-Worth

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Welcome back to the Talking Tennessee Takeover with David and Tidi. We hope that you are blessed by the conversation that we had last week. This week we went and continue that, and we were talking about manhood and brotherhood and friendship and being honest with everybody about what we need. But every day we have a walk, whether it's with God, whether it's with our family, whether it's with our community, but every day as men, we have a walk, an individual walk that we try our best to maintain. And one thing I've noticed, Tyvey, is that our walk is heavily influenced by the label society puts on us as they try to put us in a box as men, as black men, whatever, and label us as who they think they are by what's what's in the world today. And that's problematic in my opinion.

Marriage As A Covenant

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Right. I think you know, people often say this idea of you don't know where you're going unless you know where you've been. And I think part of that is understanding who we are as people, right? As as a human identity. So we often, you know, especially as we think about books and we think about history and the way it's being taught, is we often start with, you know, we were slaves. Well, first of all, we weren't slaves, we were enslaved people. But those people were doctors and pharmacists and and you name it, right? They were scientists, they were kings, they were queens, and I think, you know, sometimes the best way to get people off of their game is to distort the history of who they think they are, right? Or who they are. And I think it's important for us to just continue to remember that our our history started way before our ancestors hit American shores or wherever they they hit during chattel slavery. And so I do think that we have to really double back to know our history, to understand our history, to know what kind of stock, as they say, what kind of stock we came from, right? We often say I come from good stock, you know, but know what n but to know where we came from, to understand what's possible to where we can go, right? And I think that's so I think that's important that you understand who you are, but you also have to understand whose you are. Absolutely. As a man of faith, you and I both know that, you know, you know, we both married, so you know, the the it often talks about, you know, we are now the pastors. The Bible talks about we are the pastors of our household now, right? And so, boy, it's not, you know, you've been in the game longer than I am, but man, that was, you know, when I got married, that was scary. So uh my anniversary is in a week, and so I'll hit uh a whole decade of marriage. A decade. Ten years, and I tell you, man, that, you know, that adds another layer, right? So when you're all these things and then all of a sudden you you you add that on to it, and they have a responsibility as as men of God to lead our families and our communities. Oh, that's a that's a totally different conversation then.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

And I think that our individual walk as men, I think it changes when you when you are married, when you have a spouse, when when you're you are responsible for your household. I think that, I don't think that should become your identity, but your walk absolutely changes.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Dave, when did you realize that? Because, you know, at 10 years, I don't know if I knew the heavy responsibility of what being a husband was. I had just figured out who I was, right? And it took a while to really be comfortable in who I was and what I was called to do and the promises that God made for the impact that I was gonna make. And then you get married, right? And I didn't realize just the awesome responsibility that was until, you know, and I think I'm still realizing that. How long have you all been in the game?

SPEAKER_03 4:45

We've been married since 2003.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Okay. So that is 23 years. Y'all don't do math, so that's 23 years. So talk about so so so as as a brother who's trying to get to 23, you know, talk about that, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Well, first off, what you said is is when did you realize that? Number one, you said whose we are. Whose marriage is this? Who's this isn't David and Yamaka's marriage. This is God's covenant. So that's first and foremost. And did I realize this at 5, 10, whatever years? I don't know. But re but being aware enough to recognize that this is bigger than David, this is bigger than Yamaka, this is bigger than the land of marriage. This is God's covenant. We are God's people, this is God's covenant. And the biggest thing was uh allowing myself to see past things, see past pride, see past ego, see past society's expectations and wanting to be, wanting to be, wanting to be equally yoked. Absolutely. Not just talked about, babe, we gotta be a partnership, babe, we gotta be this. No, wanting to be outwardly and inwardly equally yoked.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

I appreciate that. You know, wow. So Tammy and I, shout out to my wife Tammy. Love you, boo. Um, so you know, we're we're we're now at a decade, um, and it's one of the things that we always did, and we did this uh at our wedding ceremony, is we had the this the three strands, and we always said um there were three, there were three entities or three people in our marriage, right? Right. She, myself, and the Lord. And I think that is, I think that has helped us because you know there are people who get married to today and be divorced tomorrow. But I think understanding that it is ordained by God is is helped. And I so first of all, you know, the Bible says when a man findeth a wife, he findeth a good thing and obtained favor with the Lord, right? Sometimes we forget that piece of it. And so she is definitely my good thing in my favor with the Lord. But I also you talked about being equally yoked, I think many times, and I we got married later on in life, but I do think that it's important that as we as we try to figure out how, as men, how to do life, that you have to be equally yoked. And people often think that's around the sort of superficial stuff, right? You know, got the same level of education, you got the same drive same car. Like that stuff has its place, but I think foundationally you have to be equally yoked, right? Outwardly inwardly. Right? How my faith is that important? How am I gonna like there are a lot of things um that center around that for me, Tammy and I, it centers around faith that then built out from that. But I think, you know, many times you see people get divorced um because they think equally yoked mean if I'm a lawyer, you gotta be a doctor and then we gotta take over the world. And I think that that's one of the fallacies, I think, in terms of finding your mate or your partner.

Equally Yoked With Separate Walks

Effort Over Competition In Marriage

SPEAKER_03 7:54

No, it it's not like you said, labels are are unimportant when when it comes to being equally yoked. One of the one of, I mean, I y'all go through things. Our relationship looks pretty on the outside. Right. You know, you see pictures of us smiling, kissing, whatever. But we we've we've we've been there. We've been down there, we've been through it, we're walking through the to the other side. I don't expect there not to be hurdles next month, next year, whatever. But one thing that that one of the issues was as we evolved, especially after I got sick, one of the issues was my wife's walk with God. And having to come to a realization that you said, as far as your your relationship being based on the Lord, having to realize that my wife's walk with God does not have to be my walk with God. Right. Being equally yoked didn't mean that I pray every time she prays, that I worship, that I shout, that I'm, you know, in every church door, whatever, preaching, whatever she's doing, does not mean that I have to be doing the equal, separate but equal, whatever thing. In my life and in my walk, I have to have my own walk with God. She has to have her own walk with God. They line up together and we become equally yoked through that. But my walk can't be her walk, her walk can't be mine, and they may not look alike. When I finally realized that I did not have to keep pace, God wasn't keeping score. Right. That that hurdle for the most part is behind us. You have to keep working continually on that. But that was one of the biggest hurdles. We've had, God knows we've had several. You know, anybody wants to talk about it, I talk about it. I don't have to keep it in anymore. But, you know, so that was the probably the the first step, and this only happened since 2013, to where we actually finally started to feel truly equally yoked. Career-wise, we were probably fairly equally yoked. But in our walk individual walks with God, they started to line up once she accepted her calling and once I accepted that her calling was not my calling, and God is okay with that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

You're talking about equally yoked, you know, so I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt some math here, but you know, people often talk about, you know, is it 50-50 or whatever? So my my So my thought is is that it's a hundred percent. Right. And how you get to that hundred percent will vary from really day to day, right? Because we're trying to get to a hundred, perfect score, right? There are some days where I got 30. It's been a long, and I'm like, babe, you gotta get this other 70. And there are some days where she said, like, I got 80, and I was and I'm like, all right, I got another 20, right? And then some day, and so I do think that, you know, we just we don't have to give the the marriage or the relationship the same thing. We have to give it the same amount of effort. Right? And so I do think that when you talk about this idea of of competition, I've heard that, I've seen, you know, it's interesting, I've heard people talk about that in marriages where they were competing against each other. And I'm thinking, that's a you're supposed to be each other's biggest cheerleaders and biggest supporters. How on earth do you compete? So like when my wife, when Tammy gets something, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm I'm celebrating it like it's mine, because if we're yoked, it is mine, right? And when when I get something, he celebrates me, but sometimes I don't understand how that happens in relationships. Society puts that on us. Unpack that, my brother.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Well, society puts that on us. We have to, we as men have to be the breadwinner. We as men have to be the more prominent role in what I've because your mark and I've been, you know, self-employed for years. And we've been in sales commission based, you know, tangentially related businesses. And people would in our industries, how can you, you know, how can you accept the fact that your wife makes more money than you? My bank account loves it. You know? It's ours. It's our money. It's not her money, it's not my money. And there's years I make more money than her. Right. And people say, she is she pulling her weight? Whatever. We are pulling our way. Together. It's not her, it's not me. But society puts those labels on us that we as men have to be the provider. We as men have to be in control. We have to quote unquote wear the pants. No, we both wear the pants. We both make decisions. She looks to me to lead.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Right, right. I think that's what people understand is that you can do that and still, you know, biblically still lead, right? And I think I think sometimes people often see things as black or white, or they see it as as either or. And I like I like to see things as both and. Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

We we have to, and this goes back to disagreements in marriage. It doesn't have to be I'm the man, it's my way. It doesn't have to be I'm the man, I don't like that she picked out these curtains. We're getting different curtains. Okay, it doesn't have to be. There are things that are important. Things that matter, matter. And things that are unimportant. And another thing, once like I said, we've been through some things, but another level that we reached was when we realized there are things that we're not gonna like about each other. There are things that are gonna come up that need to be discussed, that are issues. But are they really important enough? Do I care about what color those curtains are next week? Right. I care about it right now because it's a hot button, it's a flash in the pan. But do I care about what color those curtains are next week? Is this issue worth talking about? Are we just gonna need to talk about this again next week? No. So why put your relationship, why put yourself through the stress of having conversations, having disagreements about things that in the long run don't matter? I've got to worry about my kids. I've got to worry about my health. We have to worry about navigating life. Why do I care what color the curtains are?

Joy Versus Happiness

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah, the things that are important are important, the things that matter matter. Hey David, so as you think about life and who you are, talk about. We often talk about this idea of happiness versus joy. What brings you joy, unmitigated joy?

SPEAKER_03 14:26

This is gonna sound trite, ordinary, whatever. Golf. But but it there's truth to that, but that's not the primary motivating factor. Honestly, making my wife smile. Making my wife happy does it for me. And is that deflecting? Is that you know not answering the question? No, I honestly like to make my wife happy. I like to I like when my wife is smiling and she's speaking with this soft voice because I've done something or I'm working towards something, or we are working towards something and it's making her happy. That motivates me, that moves me. And people say, Oh, you're whipped, you're that, whatever. No. I like her a lot. I like her better than everybody else on this planet. And uh if you have somebody like that, you want to make them smile. So when I can make her smile, that's what motivates me within my household. And then everything else is kind of secondary. My relationship with the Lord, obviously, first and foremost. Then number two is making my wife happy. That motivates me, that keeps me happy. Do I do I make every decision in a way that reflects that? No, I make mistakes. But at the end of the day, my heart and my mind are to make my wife happy. Absolutely that makes me happy. What about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 15:58

That's it, that's what I'm saying. Listen, you you ain't asking me to follow that. No way. Same thing. Exactly what he said. Um I like to surprise my wife. I, you know, she she she she you know she's a little nosy, so I'm like, let me just handle this. But I like surprising my wife. I like seeing the the smile on Tammy's face. I mean, that that that of course um gives me joy. The thing I think people have to understand about relationships is, you know, people often would say, you know, happy wife, happy life, and I don't believe in that. Right? Because God never made marriage to to be at some at one person's benefit to the other person's detriment, right? So I like the idea of, you know, happy house, happy spouse, happy house, right? Where there where if we wake up each day trying to make each other happy and smile and do the things that bring each other joy, then you're winning, you're winning the game. And so yeah, and so I I do I so I do think that um, you know, marriage really is about taking the time to get to know your spouse and then doing the things that God, you think you know that God has called you to do, um, and then to make them happy. And and here's the deal, the deal about this idea of leading. Um, you know, it's not about the the hammer, it's not about the heavy foot, but it is about there are there are things that God has called each of us to do, and we have to respect that in the way that God has called us to respect that. And I think if we lead from that perspective, I think that that that works. And so what makes so the joy piece, you know what, I I I get joy um in seeing my wife happy and smile, and I get joy in the in doing the work that I do. You know, I people and I hate to say this in a public forum, um, and I hope my boss doesn't um act on this, but I would, I would absolutely do what I do every day if I didn't get paid. If right now my my place of employment said, you know what, the the money's gone, bro, you know, I would still do it because I get so much, I don't get happy, I get joy in seeing people, the Lou Tyves, right, who are trying to find their way or the or who's who the young men, especially over who come into my office, young men and women, but you know, a lot of the guys who think, you know, I've met I've reached unk status. Did you know that? You know, I didn't realize it. So I didn't even Dr. Smile no more. I'm unk.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

My son calls me unk. It just creeps up on you. It creeps up on you, and you're doing the unk things for for a period of time before you realize, before somebody points it out to you, you're doing all the unk things. Yeah. And you're in that role before you realize it. And then you realize it, then you do you fight it? Do you accept it? Do you embrace it?

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah, so that that's what so that unk status, I've I and that's what gives me joy, right? Seeing the next generation realize their dreams and their goals and their aspirations, and you know, they come in. There's so many times, so many things I can mention where I've walked through a young person with something, whether it's flying for the first time and getting through TSA, and the students on the other side going, we did it, and you know, just excited because it's something else. But that gives me joy. You know, all the other times where folks, I sit at commencement, and I just see these young people walk across the stage and I'm going, Y'all hear their name, but God, y'all don't know what took what it took to get them here. And so I feel like that's what God has called me to do, and that's what He's He He's given me as purpose and passion.

Purpose Through Mentorship And Service

SPEAKER_03 19:29

You've given them the keys, you've put gas in the car, you you put them out there on the road, now they can go. Where they go is up to them. But you've done everything you can and I love that to put them on that road. So but I understand that. I one thing what we said in our first part of the conversation, the the door to community service that kind of opened up out of my sickness. Um, it's not necessarily a joy, but it's a fulfillment. Community service. Yeah. Uh doing things, being a part of things that grow this community, that grow others. Um, I think it was Muhammad Ali said that uh community service is the rent we pay for our time here on Earth. And I kind of heard that some years ago and I kind of ran with it. And I've tried to be more involved, um, and I've tried to be more aware of what's going on around me and how what we do as a family, as a business, um, as leaders. Right. Um, how it impacts others and and how it leads others and how it affects our community and the world we live in. So that I I'm starting to find more and more fulfillment in that. Um because I don't want my only legacy to be what I taught my kids, what I left my kids, the businesses that we left. I want my legacy to be beyond that box I drew. I want it to be beyond the land's name. I want to be that guy helped this, this, this, this. And all of this grew because of what they did. Absolutely.

Rapid Fire Questions And Laughs

SPEAKER_02 21:01

You know, uh uh my wife, she she she volunteers now, she's a professional volunteer, and I love the work that she does. She works with little kids, uh, volunteers with little kids, and that's all her no part of that one. Um give me give me the teenagers and and the and the and the young adults. But you know, as I think about you know what we can do and how we can impact, you know, every you know, uh it often it was that anybody, anybody can make an impact because anybody can serve, or anybody can make a difference because anybody can serve. And for young people, I'll leave two nuggets and I'm gonna ask you a couple questions, David. Um any young person out there who is ready to make an impact, whether that's through direct service or service on boards, I mean that's that's important too, as long as you're not tokenized, right? So I often say, well, what are you passionate about? What are the things that you feel like you want to make an impact in? And then work in that, right? So you know, I do a lot of youth based stuff because you know, that next generation legacy is important to me, right? Or community is important to me. And so if you look at the things I've been involved in, some a couple of my young professional mentees have come and is like, yeah, I've been asked to serve on this board and they're really proud. And I'm going, what do they do? And are you passionate about it? No. And so you have to make a trade-off, right? Do you want to spend your time, your talent, your treasure doing this? Although it's something you're not passionate about. And maybe sometimes a trade-off is yes, sometimes it might be no. But I will tell you, you get much more joy and fulfillment in doing something you're passionate about. Because I do know that there are other people, I hate when people say, well, I'm the only whatever on on, but many times when folks have come, say, you want to serve on this board? I'm like, oh, I can't, no. But I know somebody else who could, or somebody who would be phenomenal in that, who is passionate about what they're doing. And so I do think that as we take think about this idea of joy where you get it in work, but you can also get it in community and then serving others. Can I ask you four questions? Absolutely. Alright, let me wrap it for. You ready? Go ahead. This is way off the wall. You ready? Yep. Alright. Orange or crimson? Orange. Biggie or Tupac?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Big. That's not in my world, that's not even a question.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Cabbage Patch or the Dougie? Dougie? LeBron or MJ?

SPEAKER_03 23:25

My son would have your head for asking that question. That's not even a question. What? I'm not gonna answer that. No, I just wanted to. I matriculated to adulthood in the 90s, so that LeBron thing is not even a question.

Parting Words For Young Men

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Um last question. All right, so the the the folks who are listening, right? There are people from all backgrounds, all walks of life who listen, but I really want to just talk talk to my brothers for a second. If a young brother um is listening to this podcast, they're walking around and somebody pops it in on their hear about it. What would you what what would be your parting words and what would you say to them if they're just just kind of trying to figure out life, trying to figure out what the next step is, next level is? What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_03 24:22

See past the stigmas and allow yourself to be who you are, truly, regardless of what society tries to put on you. Find what it is and be that. It took me getting sick, it took me listening to other people tell me that there's purpose in my being here to bo before I would even allow myself to think about why I was here. So my advice to anybody, man, woman, child, whatever, is see past everything that others have put on you. See past everything society's put on you, labels, trauma, see past it all and figure out who you are and why you are that person. Because you can do so much once you realize that you know, people one thing, you know, what I'm passionate about giving back the blood drop, you know, everybody knows about it, whatever. But but there's something in knowing there is a tangible value benefit to one unit of blood saves three lives. We can collect 10 units. We know we've impacted, we've saved 30 lives. I would not be there. I would not realize that that success of one unit. If I never allowed myself to see past my illness, I might not walk again, I'm never gonna do this again, whatever. If I never allow myself to see past my circumstances and actually see past everything on the outside, my health, my finances, because obviously you get sick like that, your finances are a mess. You know, am I gonna work again? I see past all that, allow myself to see the purpose that was in me that God put in me.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

And I never stopped before I got sick, and that's unfortunate, but it's the reality of it. So I you I don't know how you got into your line of work, but you were blessed to be in a position where you could see something tangible through what you were doing in your career. I was not that lucky. I'm lucky to have the career I am, I'm blessed, blessed to have the career I am, I've been able to make a good living, whatever. But that does not do anything for me or for anybody else other than provide a service. You can change lives. I did not realize that I could change lives until I had that trauma.

unknown 26:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Well, David, I I'll I'll as as we get ready to wrap up, thank you for sharing your story. And I know you and I had talked about it. A few months ago about that wasn't always the case. But I think by you sharing your story and by us sharing our stories, the good, the bad, and the ugly, what we hope is that you'll take something from it to help use it to impact and improve your lives. Um we don't have it all together. We are still learning. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. But we I I can see your heart, and I and hopefully, you know, folks can see my heart to know that this was just about starting a conversation that we need to have in our communities about how we lift everybody up. A rising tide raises all ships, as long as the ship don't have a hole in it, right? And that and that's what we we are about. And that's what we're trying to do with this conversation is just help our community start to begin some very necessary and some very important conversations about how we uplift each of us. And and as we walk away, um, my four things, my four S. I was waiting for turn about faith, family, friends, and food.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

I got a question for you, because it matters to you. It doesn't matter to me. Crimson or orange? See, that's a little more personal for you.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I uh I love orange when it comes to college, and then Crimson when it comes to my fraternity, I was our fraternity incorporated. Crimson and crib, baby.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I I appreciate you, Dr. Smile, for for taking the time out of your day. We know that you are busy, you know that people are pulling and you are giving. And you gave us something today, and we appreciate it. Appreciate you. I I hope that this is the the first of conference m more conversations with you in this forum as well as probably some others, just so we can, you know, keep the dialogue going. Because we as men need help. We as as mentors need help, and the young people that we would like to reach need help, and we can't do that without having these conversations. Absolutely. Until next time. Thank you all for tuning in. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Thanks for listening to Talk in Tennessee with Yavonka. Watch out for our weekly episodes from the first family of real estate. And check us out on the web, www.yavanka stylesrealestate.com. See our videos on Yavanka's YouTube channel or find us on Facebook under Yavonka Landed and Twitter at Yavonka Landed. And don't forget to tell a friend about us. Until next time, Yavonka Standing Off.