Community Safety in Flint: Dr. Kenyetta Dotson and Percy Glover on Gun Violence Prevention

Content note: This episode includes discussion of gun violence, homicide, and the loss of loved ones, including children, which may be distressing for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. 

In this episode of Philanthropy Speaks, we mark Gun Violence Awareness Month with a candid conversation about community safety in Flint and Genesee County. Host Moses Bingham, Director of Strategic Initiatives at the Community Foundation of Greater Flint, sits down with Dr. Kenyetta Dotson and Percy Glover, co-chairs of the Community Safety Collaborative (CSC).

Dotson, founder of WOW Outreach and community engagement lead at Michigan State University's C.S. Mott Department of Public Health, and Glover, a Flint native, national speaker on jail and judicial reform, and founder of Fair Voting Alliance, bring lived experience and real solutions to the table.

Tune in to learn why gun violence is a public health crisis, how community violence intervention (CVI) saves both lives and dollars, and why no act of care is ever too small. From mentoring young people to the CSC's community safety calendar and resource dashboard, discover how Flint residents are working together to prevent gun violence and build a safer community.

Learn more about the Community Foundation of Greater Flint and the Community Safety Collaborative at https://www.cfgf.org/impact/community-safety-collaborative. 

Transcript

0:00

Before we begin, a quick note. Today's conversation includes discussion of gun violence, homicide, and the loss of loved ones, including children. Please take care while listening. Thank you.

Percy Glover 0:13

There is no piece, there's no activation activity that is too small. If your capacity is hearting a post on social media, do that. If your capacity is picking up the phone and calling the young person saying, "I love you," do that. There's nothing too small

Moses Bingham 0:38

Welcome to Philanthropy Speaks, the podcast where Flint and Genesee County community voices lead the conversation. Each episode, Philanthropy Speaks through lived stories, local leadership, and the people building a stronger community. I'm your host, Moses Bingham, director of strategic initiatives at the Community Foundation of Greater Flint. Let's hear what philanthropy has to say today. Today, we're talking about gun violence awareness. This is Gun Violence Awareness Month, and it's a topic that matters to so many of us right now here sitting in the room and throughout the community. Today I'm sitting down with two people who have given a lot to this work in very different ways. Dr. Kenyetta Dotson has spent more than 30 years working in and for Flint, the city she called home for her whole entire life. She founded WOW Outreach, and leads community engagement at Michigan State University CS Mott Department of Public Health. Percy Glover is also here. He is a Flint native, a national speaker and advocate for jail and judicial reform, the founder of Fear Voting Alliance, and a published author. He brings lived experience and a deep belief in second chances to everything he does in this community. Kenyetta, Percy, thanks for being here.

Kenyetta Dotson 2:01

Thanks for having us.

Percy Glover 2:03

Oh, good afternoon. Thank you.

Moses Bingham 2:05

All right. So let's get started with a round of questions, and we want be thoughtful of your time. So to both of you and Kenyetta, we'll start with you. I think it's important to emphasize that the Community Safety Collaborative isn't new, right? Both of you, you serve as co-chairs for this subcommittee of the Community Foundation of Greater Flint. It grew out of a national cohort a few years back, and has been meeting every month since, rotating locations around the community. And for folks just hearing about it, what is the CSC? Where did it come from? And how has it changed since those early days?

Kenyetta Dotson 2:45

I will say that, yes, you're absolutely right. It's not something that's new. We've been working together collaboratively for over four years. But this work in and of itself, this work of community safety, this work of nonviolence- it's been happening for years upon years, people out doing what they can do neighborhood and community champions standing forward to the front line because there's a need that needs to be met and nobody else is doing it, so they stepped forward to make sure things were happening from a solution-driven standpoint. So being new is not something that the Community Safety Collaborative is. We work really hard to be proactive rather than reactive. We try to bring as many to the table in the room as possible to work together from a collaboration standpoint. And we also want to make sure, especially with it being Gun Violence Awareness Month we definitely want to emphasize the need for partnerships and working together. And the CSC, the Community Safety Collaborative, is a great place to start.

Percy Glover 3:52

Good afternoon, and thank you again. One of the biggest things is that gun violence today has become cultural, and in our efforts and our response, we understand we had to develop a culture of people and galvanize the people in our response to what we see today in gun violence. Not only is it cultural, but it is culture that happens not only in Flint but across Michigan. You see the same things that almost mirror each other, whether it's Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Pontiac, Muskegon, and the same way across the country, whether we're talking about St. Louis, Chicago, or Compton or New York. Because the culture had grew so consistently with gun violence and youth gun violence, that we understood that we needed a team of community leaders and galvanize the community broadly in our response to address it responsibly. Also There's no one person, no one group, no one agency that can address this movement independently. Working collaboratively is the better solution to everything, whether it's gun violence, whether it's blight, whether it's economics. We have to work in unison to address all things perfectly in the most healthiest way for our community. As a victim of gun violence myself, it is very personal. I can go into some very in-depth stories. In the '80s at General Motors, my mom was shot five times. My father was shot, killed by his common-law wife. I've seen gun violence in various layers at various levels pretty much my entire life. For our young people, in the most intentional way, I always say the best solution to diffusing a moment is to walk away. There's always the opportunity to come back and have a appropriate conversation when emotions have scaled down, when the energy to act inappropriately that leads to act to arguments, that leads to people to act violently, when all of those minimize and you can come back and revisit the conversation in a responsible way, is the best way to handle those things. For my generation, for men, we were always taught fight back, defend yourselves I don't agree today. You know, I teach my 16-year-old son, I say, "Son, kids fight, kids argue. Adults talk. We communicate." Gun violence today, again, is a public health crisis. Again, it's something that is cultural, that happens across communities, not only in Michigan, but also across the country.

Moses Bingham 6:48

Thank you, Percy. You hit on a lot of, on a lot of points right there on just the founding and just the aspect that, gun violence in our community is cultural. And we learned that, you know, when emotions are high, cognition is low. And how do we give our residents, how do we give our community tools and resources to respond to some of the stressors that they have and with a level head? And so, I wanted just to really, thank both of you for being here once again. Kenyette you talked about some of the foundations that this work has been going on for a while. But for both of you I guess the idiomatic expression is true, that you're not new to this, you're true to this, right? And so tell us your why. Give us the story behind the work. Share with us, like, why do you wake up every morning or every day concerned about, violence in our community?

Kenyetta Dotson 7:35

All right. Thank you for that. Prior to the Community Safety Collaborative I'm thankful that we have a coalition of partners working together. It takes a load off me as an individual. Percy's been doing this for a long time, Moses, I'm just calling off some folks that's in the room. I have been doing this for a long time, and then there's those listeners and viewers. You all have been doing this work for a long period of time. But this grew out of mothers crying out, dads crying out, families crying out, and then also a call to action. You know, the community said enough and wanted solutions. We're tired of talking about the problem. We're tired of harping on past negatives, past traumas and things like that. We want to build on, like, the lives that we've lost and later on I wanted to just call out a few, but some of the ones we've lost a three-year-old. And I was writing this out this morning, a three-year-old, a six-year-old, a nine-year-old, a 12-year-old, and it's, it is something how it's go three, six, nine, 12. And then there's others in between. But when you think about those that we've lost, we have a responsibility as a people as neighbors, as citizens, to ensure that not only is our community safe, but our home is safe as well. It starts at home first. You know, before we can change anything else, we first have to change ourselves, and we have to change our own home envi- environment in order to make the community better. So, so that's what it came out of. I lost a best friend, my best friend who was going to be the maid of honor at my wedding. She lost her life to violence. A girl ran her over. She died, and the young lady went to prison for a number of years. Both of them had children, and so those were not only two lives impacted, but two lives plus their kids, plus their family, plus our community. And then my aunt. My aunt was killed by her fiancé. She was sleeping on the couch and and she was killed. And so Those two things really propelled me into the life that I'm in, being a social worker and those types of things. And then going to the hospital to visit families or talking to moms or families who have been impacted and trying to help them to find their, to find a way to live without their loved one that has been my why. And I guess I can't go without saying my own family, my own kids. I have, right now, I have a 19-year-old, 25-year-old, and a 34-year-old. But at the time when they were younger, the things that I did for community and on behalf of youth, I not only did it to help young people in community, but I also did it to help my own kids. 'Cause if I don't do something, if I don't give to my community and to, to young people regarding this issue, it's only a matter of time before violence, death, gun, gunshots come knocking at our door. So those are a few of my whys.

Moses Bingham 10:30

Oh, wow. Dr. Dyson, thank you so much for sharing and being so candid with us. I mean, we see the degrees, we see you out in community working but you don't know the story, you know, what people have gone through. And for you to share and lift that up is very meaningful for us today

Kenyetta Dotson 10:48

I was just thinking about Doneisha Williams. I always bring her up because she was 12 years old at the time. She lived around the corner from a corner store on Carpenter Road in Flint. She was the youngest and the last of the babies that her mom, you know, put out, and she was the baby girl. And she asked her mom can she go to the store just to buy a bag of Hot Cheetos. So she and one of her young men friends one of the young boys from the neighborhood, they walked to the store to get a bag of Hot Cheetos. Unfortunately, somebody decided to do a drive-by at the same time that she was walking to the store. There were a number of people out. It was the summertime, a number of people were out at the store, but guess what? The intended victim, whoever they were trying to shoot at, that person didn't get shot. No one else got shot but the 12-year-old young lady walking to the store for a bag of Hot Cheetos. And when I visited her in the hospital countless times, praying, hoping that she would make it, unfortunately she didn't she stays with me, and I'm very close with the family as a result of her life lived. So I just wanted to mention that and bring her forward, because there's so many young Doneishas and families who are dealing with this type of occurrence.

Moses Bingham 12:03

Wow. Thank you so much for that. And it's always heartbreaking to hear, when a young life pass or when any life passes and, Yeah, I think it is really cause for us to really look deep and to see what we can do as individuals and collectively to make change in our community. Percy, would you mind sharing to that effect? What's your why? You alluded to some things earlier about, you know, some things and some traumatic events with your mom and your father. But when you wake up day to day, what's motivating you? What's your why to continue this gun violence prevention work?

Percy Glover 12:34

There are so many whys, but... And there's really no one that is at the top of the list, but if I had to say there was a particular one that was the lead, would be being a father. You know, ensuring that my 16-year-old son has the wherewithal, the tools, the skills to be able to navigate life well, to not find himself in these moments where he is in conflict where it becomes violent where he feels like he has to retaliate or anything like that. The next piece would have to be just personal. Really, just honestly, just personal. Not only am I a gunshot victim, but I am a gunshot victim who retaliated and subsequently spent more than a decade in prison. When I reflect back on that moment, the biggest piece that, again, I share with young people is that you always have the choice to walk away. It's that simple. Just walk away. It's never that serious. I could justify and make all of the examples and excuses for, "They were shooting at me. They shot first." It's not... No, I should've walked away. My friends, we should've walked away. And you s- when you say, what is the why for me, it would be that, but also just the irony of seeing experiences with young people today and again, those experiences mirroring the same experiences I had 30, 35 years ago. Now, are there some differences? Of course. You know, things evolve. We have social media. We have a different layer and levels of access to firearms today. You have ghost guns. You have guns that young people buy in parts online and then put them together once they receive those parts, after they've been delivered. So there are some stark differences, but a lot of how you see how gun violence is activated among our young people, it is actually 100% the same. You know, when people talk about, oh my God, youth takeovers, well, Kenyetta and I come from a generation where on Clyde Road, Pigeon Road, they were hanging out at the car wash. You know, there's not much difference. There's so many, again, so many similarities that I also feel like that for people my age and now in their 50s and their 60s They should do a little bit better job of reflecting when they were young people to understand how they can better relate to young people to pull young people away from gun violence. Unfortunately there was a shooting a few days ago at Carpenter and Dort Highway, and you know, you hear a lot of different things, but nobody intentionally, except maybe the person that was shooting, but maybe that wasn't even intentional until they saw the threat or saw the person that they had conflict with and then felt the worst energy to then act with a firearm or react with a firearm. I'm not sure of all the details, but nobody intentionally goes out to hang out to have a good time, to expect the worst. Most times that's not the case. So culturally, we also have to look at, again, the same dynamic that when Dr. Kenyetta and I were young people, those type of things still happened. There were fights, there were shootings, even back then in the late '80s, at the beginning of the '90s, and they were all in the same way today, when you look at what triggered things, you be like, "Man, this was really about nothing. It wasn't even that serious." And then also when you look at the why looking also at the how, looking at what pieces play a part in gun violence. We've been looking at data and statistics to see how much drugs impact people's behavior how much alcohol impacts people behavior. If you're hanging out and you're partying marijuana is legal now, how much does marijuana impact people to impulsively use a firearm in the worst way? So also looking at, in some aspects that may be and may have evolved differently that we may need to examine. But at the end of the day, for me and my why is again Being the best father for my son and being the best leader in the community that from a personal perspective that has had some tough experiences and has made some very poor choices.

Moses Bingham 17:14

Wow. Thank you both. Kenyetta, you really spoke to just the compassion, that, that led your why, and I think that's important. And on your side, Percy, I really hear you. Fatherhood changes things, right? For me I can remember before we moved from the South Side to where we are now there was a drive-by shooting, that happened four doors down. And I don't know, there was, like, 13, 15 shots that rang out. And you can see the the gun smoke floating down the street. And my son who was eight or nine at the time, you know, crawling on the floor saying, "Daddy, I don't wanna die." And you know, that responsibility that you're responsible for this young person, and you have to do something, you have to respond. So to your point, fatherhood does change things. And so I appreciate you both for really sharing and leaning in to your why why you do this work. Dr. Dotson, if we can just shift to you really quickly. One of the things that sets this collaborative apart is that it treats gun violence as a public health crisis, but from your vantage point in public health, what does that approach actually look like in practice, and why does this framing matter?

Kenyetta Dotson 18:24

From a public health standpoint, I do believe that violence is a health crisis. And one reason why I believe that is because I believe it's deeply rooted. Violence didn't happen overnight and as community advocates, community leaders, we know that it's not gonna end overnight. So having a strategy, like in community, when you don't know that there's a model that you can follow, when you don't know that there's other people out here who have done what you're doing and have proved that what they're doing works, and their model is so similar to what is already happening in community, but nobody in community knows that these things exist. Because what community does is they just step up because they see a need, and they're like, "We just need to do this," so they organize themselves, they make it happen and that's where the community champions come in at. But having a blueprint, having a model, and me being a master's level social worker as well, you know, I'm task-driven. I like to know what does the data say. I want to make sure that the things that we're doing has impact and that it's going deep, far, and wide in order to help as many as we possibly can. So when you say that violence is a public health crisis, we have to look at it from that standpoint. We have to identify that violence is perpetuated by unmet needs. First of all, nobody is just born into violence. You know? Like, it is something that shapes them as they continue to grow. And nobody just wakes up one morning and say, "You know, I think today I wanna be a prostitute," or, "Today I wanna be a drug addict," or, "Today I think I wanna go out and shoot up five people." Like, it doesn't just happen like in certain cases with mental health and mental illness. It might happen, you know? But for the most part, it's happening because it's been shaped, it's been deeply rooted in some type of way within that individual. And when I say that violence is perpetuated by unmet needs, people are lonely. People feel hopeless. People don't have the adequate resources that they need to take care of their family. So all of these things are really important, but definitely having the collaboration. I always say having communication, having collaboration, and having coordination is really important as well as the data to show what we need, how we should be doing things, and then what it is that's already happening in community and and amongst city leaders.

Moses Bingham 20:53

Indeed. Thank you, Kenyetta. I mean, just really looking at and leaning into the social determinants of health and which you really spoke to, and the aspect that, you know, education levels impact, areas of violence. Economic opportunities and opportunities overall contribute to violence in particular areas. And so we have to have that social determinants of health lens as we look at violence to what the D.L. Jakes says to cure violence, right? So thank you for that. Percy, shifting over to you. You describe your hardest experiences as your best education for serving people. And you've been on more than one side of this issue. What does prevention look like through your eyes, and what do people most often misunderstand about the people who have lived

21:39

it? When

Percy Glover 21:40

I say my worst experience is my best experience to educate and service the people, I mean just that. Again, what we see with youth gun violence mirrors my same experience that I had as a teenager in the late '80s and the beginning of the '90s. What we see in gun violence today is the byproduct of economics and poverty.

Kenyetta Dotson 22:03

Yeah.

Percy Glover 22:04

What we saw and what we've experienced in loss of jobs locally with the General Motors, the manufacturing plants, crack epidemic era, drugs, drug abuse, all of what we see today is the cultural byproduct of all those things As Dr. Dotson said, young people did not and were not born with certain habits, behavior, characteristics. It's all learned. And a lot of it has been, for them, a process of learning as gun violence has become such the norms for our community. If we look at from the late '80s, the '90s, the 2000s, Flint has been a certain way for quite a long time.

Katelyn 22:54

Yeah.

Percy Glover 22:54

We've been in the top 20, top 25 as the most dangerous city- most violent city, highest murder rate per capital off and on all the way since the late '80s. So for young people that have grown up and have witnessed this and saw this, that unintentionally and unconsciously let that become a part of their character and behavior and personality unknowingly because they are seeing it in example in the community, we have to now reverse the culture. We have to now set a new standard of showing young people that we can galvanize and hangout responsibly, which I don't think it should be at a gas station. I mean, that's a place of business. You, the proprietor, the owners, they run into a lot of different problems when you have 50, 60 people, 70, 80 people hanging out at a gas station. But to show them where to responsibly convene and how to responsibly convene, and that we all can do so safely. A person shouldn't even be waking up, leaving the house, and one of the things they grab with their keys and wallet is a gun. Why are you even taking a gun outdoors if you're not doing it as a sport, if you're not going to the gun range? There's some thinking and some maybe irresponsible thinking, obviously, but also maybe some mental health that needs to be addressed. Also, the cultural aspect that as a young person or as an adult, that has me feeling like I need to leave the house prepared to go to war and protect and defend myself Gun owners and gun users should be primarily focused on as a sport, protecting my home, but not every day I'm putting a gun on my hip traveling throughout the community 'cause I feel like it's unsafe. So we also have to address how people think about firearms, how they think about the responsibility of firearms, and how they think about the usage of firearm in what they feel may be a threatening or dangerous situation or moment in the

25:17

community I

Moses Bingham 25:18

think what the crux of it is the bottom line is education, right? Oh

Percy Glover 25:21

yeah,

Moses Bingham 25:21

definitely. So one, one, one thing that I was, that was impressed upon me there's nothing like a bought lesson, right? But we as community members, there's lessons that we can give our young people for free, right? We don't have to have young people experiencing, gun violence, by being a perpetrator. We can say, "Hey, put that gun down," and provide opportunities show 'em a different way, show 'em a different light. That's incumbent upon us to give out the free lessons, right? Or proverbially go into that DeLorean and go back to the future and say, "Hey, this was me." As you both have said,, we can't forget that we were young, too, right? We can't just cast all this dispersion on our young people and say, "Hey, you're you're doing this, and there's no cause for it." We did some foolish things, too, back in the day, right? And so we have to give a level of grace for our young people. And to all people.

Percy Glover 26:10

I wanna add to that not only grace, but help them understand that, we... Like I saw on social media a few months ago there was a rap challenge, and this may be... But I'ma tie, I'ma tie all the dots together. And the rap challenge had at least a couple hundred people from Flint engaged sharing their verses. And I saw a different post that said, "Man, does everybody in Flint rap?" Yes. 'Cause you gotta think about any young person that's grown up that is 30 and under grew up a lot different from I did when rap did not become a thing till I was maybe eight, nine years old. It didn't hit, like, mainstream until maybe five, six years later. It didn't become this huge global thing until maybe a couple years after that. Whereas young people, they hear rap music in everything they do, in cartoons, in commercials, in radio ads, everything. They've grown up day one experiencing rap music in some capacity, in some aspect. But also locally for somebody that's 30 or 25 and under, they've also experienced gun violence in the same capacity, that they know friends, they know classmates, they know family members, they know neighbors who have been impacted by gun violence. Culturally they've, for lack of a better way to say it, they've earned it and got it honestly because again, Flint culturally has been a very dangerous place for a very long time and we understand how and why. It is the byproduct of economics. It is the byproduct of poverty. It is the byproduct of job loss. It is the byproduct of drugs. It is the byproduct of trauma, mental health We know these things. Now we have to be better at reversing the culture and setting a better and different tone and standard.

Kenyetta Dotson 28:09

Percy had mentioned that many are taking this on as the norm. We're being okay with, many are okay with the violence that's happening within their home, within their community. Some turn a blind eye. They're not okay with it, but they turn a blind eye. Many are silent because there's a host of unsolved crimes and people that we've lost in community, and no one is saying anything, although it happened in broad daylight in a high public, high traffic area. So when you talk about the norm we cannot accept this as the norm. We just can't. We as a people have to do our part, whatever that part is, but we have to take responsibility and be accountable for what is happening within our community. First off, starting within our home. And I just wanted to mention, that this norm accepting where we are today as it relates to the crime and the violence and the attitudes and behaviors and even the culture of violence we cannot accept this as a people, as partners, as individuals. We just simply can't.

Moses Bingham 29:16

No that's super helpful and relevant, right? There's a level of outrage to, all the things that happened over time and rightfully so. I believe this helps us transition to the next thought. If there's one thing for both of you, if there's one thing that each of you wish the public understood about gun violence in Flint and Genesee County what would it be? And as I'm sitting here, I'm just thinking about the myriad of partners that we have throughout the Community Safety Collaborative. Men Motivating Men, Sisters Supporting Sisters Crime Stoppers, Jaleel X, and the Peacekeepers and the list goes on and on. The myriad of faith leaders St. Mark's Outreach. These community organization and leaders who are a part of this solution. The thing about it that as we sit here we're one minute piece, right? The thing that I would say it takes all of us. We all have a seat at the table, right? And there and there should be multiple tables. Right? And every table should look differently, right? And how do we work together at the end of the day to make sure that everyone knows that your efforts is important, and your efforts are needed, right? And so that's, that would be my thing. If I could tell anybody about, what's important about this work is that everybody is needed, right? So I throw that question to you all. What do you all wish people would know about, gun violence in our community?

Percy Glover 30:38

There's some education pieces that are pretty apparent but may not be apparent when people haven't really considered, that one, gun violence is seasonal. We see a trajectory of gun violence during summer months, and we don't see that same level of gun violence in the colder winter months. Gun violence is relational. A lot of the gun violence we see, witness in our community is among people that know each other. Gun violence is also cultural. But also bigger than that is that there is no piece, there's no activation activity that is too small. If your capacity is hearting a post on social media, do that. If your capacity is picking up the phone and calling the young person saying, "I love you," do that. There's nothing too small, and I believe a lot of people get wrapped up in the notion that I don't have the money, I don't have the resources.

Moses Bingham 31:46

Well,

Percy Glover 31:47

great, you don't. It's okay. I mean, if I had a billion dollars to invest in our parks, in our law enforcement, in housing and employment, would that make all the difference for our community? Yes. Unfortunately, Percy doesn't have a billion dollars, but Percy has his capacity to do what he can when he can. And I just encourage people just to be honest with themselves and understand that there's no level of action that is too small. Again, if what you can do regularly is hitting the heart button on a social media post, great. That's amazing, 'cause it did something, because it raised viewership for somebody else to see. If your capacity is pick up the phone, call my nephew and say, "Nephew, I love you," great. That warmed his heart and gave him the understanding to say, "My aunt is thinking about me and considering about, considering me." There is no piece too small. Obviously, there's no piece too great, but just people just really understanding that you can lean in and do something

Moses Bingham 32:52

It's so

Katelyn 32:52

true

Moses Bingham 32:53

percy, right now you're mentoring a group of young men at Northridge Academy. And so tell us about that experience, what you've been teaching them or sharing with them from a week-to-week basis. I think it's from... That's like a six to 10-week program, and what, it was last week or so you took some of them to CVI Day. Can you kinda share on that experience? 'Cause you talked about there's no one thing that's too small that you can do. And so just share with that, this I guess essentially small group that's making a big difference.

Percy Glover 33:18

So there are 35 seven to eighth graders between the ages of 12 and 14 I speak to every Thursday at Northridge Academy. It's been great. So one of the things I looked at for this school year, I didn't wanna be the sole speaker for the boys. So I'm, I asked them, "Who else would you like to talk to? Who would you like to meet?" And they gave me a list. "We wanna meet a lawyer, we wanna meet a rapper," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You know, so I've had local rappers like Crispy Life Kid come speak to the boys. Dante Lott from Men Motivating Men. Judge Bowie, Jeremy Bowie from Oakland County, he came and spoke. You know, so that was really encouraging to see them, express what their interests are. Also, yes, we took them to CVI Day, Community Violence Intervention Day. This was the fourth CVI Day, and they had a great time. You know, before we even left Lansing, they were already asking, "When is the next field trip?" And I really didn't know what to expect. Thank you for Moses chaperoning, Pastor Sharee Stapleton, Ashanti Walker. It was great. It was great. And one of the things that we have to be responsible in as we educate our young people is that a lot of kids today lack exposure They lack exposure outside of what they see regularly, daily at school, and in their immediate home and neighborhood. It is life-changing to take a young person out of the city of Flint. It becomes even more life-changing when you take them out the state of Michigan.

Kenyetta Dotson 34:56

Right.

Percy Glover 34:57

It becomes even more life-changing when you take them out of the country. You know, so being very intentional in helping our young people experience other people, other moments, other situations, other cultures as it relates to outside of Flint, outside of Genesee County, outside of Michigan, outside of the country it's been wonderful. I could talk forever about our young guys. They are truly kids at heart. You know, I've never seen kids eat so much ice cream. I saw- three or four of them eat, like, five ice creams a piece. I said, "Oh my God. My stomach hurts." But all of that excitement and that youthful energy, and all of the questions, and all of who is this person, and what do they mean when they say this, and what is this about, and what is the impact, what is the importance, is... That shows that when we expose our kids to certain things, they respond differently, and that's the piece that we have to be really be mindful of. That if we understand that today, the economics and how poverty impacts families and community, that impacts their resources and their ability to extend the children to experiences outside of, again, the immediate home, school, the community, or their immediate community- And we see that when we take to other places, it's life-changing. Why not just do more of it?

Moses Bingham 36:30

Exactly. Why not?

Percy Glover 36:31

Yeah.

Moses Bingham 36:31

Exactly. Yeah, and then so you really hit the nail on the head, you know, 'cause at the end of the day, people don't care what you know until they know that you care, and that level of exposure is paramount for our young people. It was really refreshing to see. They had a youth session at the CVI Day in, in Lansing last week, and it was great to hear the young men come out not only, sharing what they heard and learned, but saying like, "I can be a part of the solution as well." And so, I really appreciate you for doing that and all the community mentors who are doing great work just like that. Kenyetta, just shifting to you one thing you wish the public understood about gun violence in our community.

Kenyetta Dotson 37:08

One thing I wish, Well, there's multiple things that I hope for.

Moses Bingham 37:13

We're going, we just going for one.

Kenyetta Dotson 37:14

No, I- No, I'm just messing I get that. But I just wanted to throw it out there that there are multiple things that I desire and hope for as it relates to gun violence, safety, the reduction of gun violence, the elimination of our tolerance for gun violence. But what I will say is that there is a cure. I mean, I believe there is a cure. W- just as for me, from a faith perspective there's a scripture that says that the poor will be with us always, and I also believe that we'll probably have some level of violence with us always, but I feel as though we can penetrate what's going on, and that we can provide a cure to violence. And I think one of the ways to do that is by, one, collaborating, working together regardless of our differences. A lot of times we stay away from the table, we stay away from partnerships because of our emotions or because of how we feel about somebody or because of a past experience, and we gotta stop that. We gotta leave that at the door and think about the people who matter the most. The second thing that I think about this is if we can just- Help, like Percy mentoring. I wanna give a shout-out to Peckham. Peckham is a program that has been going on for, I don't know, maybe two years for this Youth Go program. It's been going on for about two and a half years, and they've graduated over 200 kids, young people age 18 to 24, who some of them have felonies, some of them are on the fence some of them are just having a tough time. But but this is a voluntary program. Nobody's making them come to this program. And then they graduate after six weeks, and they get a job. And many of those young people, after they've graduated, after they've gotten a job, they still need support. They still need help. And some of them the job may not have worked out, that particular job, and so they may need help finding and securing another job, which you already know, and I know Percy knows knows probably more than most how difficult it can be to get a job when you have had an experience of jail and/or penitentiary. And so, so just supporting these young people. Percy said whatever your part is, whatever you can do, whether that's heartened something or just giving a word of encouragement, you see the young person walking down the street, and you open up your door and say something nice or kind to them, or ask them have they had lunch, you know, "Do you want this sandwich?" Whatever the case might be. But these are some things that I feel can penetrate the propensity of violence and can hopefully over time reduce it to a point where we actually feel and see the reduction. Because the stats might say that

39:54

we're, violent

Kenyetta Dotson 39:54

crimes, gun violence is down by 30%. But guess what? As a community, we don't feel that, and we don't see it, you know? And so I'm hoping that we get to a place where we know that we're making a difference, we can see the impact of change and we're able to move forward from that standpoint. And just one last thing too. The last thing is just slowing down. We're so quick to jump up off our emotions, and as soon as something happens, somebody say something, automatically you wanna punch them in the face or you wanna, you know, do something else off of reaction from emotion. And a lot of times I tell the young people that I mentor and that I'm connected to, I say, "Chill for a moment. You know, when somebody say something to you, don't allow them to take you out of character because then that means they're controlling you." I said, "But just pause. Take a pause for the cause." And I wanna give a shout-out to our partner Teresa at Crim, who does the meditation and things. It's a form of meditation, but it's just like just chill for a moment before you respond because Taking a pause will delay what it is that you're potentially going to do, and it would also help to possibly change how the other person is going to respond to you based on what you say and what you do. So those are some things that I feel will help to impact gun violence and I believe there is a cure

Moses Bingham 41:13

thank you, Kennetta for that response. It's really helpful to know that, once again, that we have to give our young people a platform and space to really to think before they react, right? Right. It's important for them to know that it takes just a split second To do something that you regret for the rest of your life, right? And so if we can just change the trajectory get our, get people, not just young people, but get people just to think to stop and think we'll be better, we'll be better for it. So, shifting back just to the Community Safety Collaborative the collaborative has been you know, partnering with a myriad of different organizations, and it's partnered with the City of Flint in terms of some mini grants partnered with Julie Lopez and the Crime Stoppers in terms of the QR code even with the Michigan State University and their data group. You know, what is the collaborative focused on now? What are we honing on in as co-chairs of this collaborative? What do you see, you know, moving this summer? What are the initiatives or what are the day-to-day things that people may not know behind the scenes that you are working on and thinking on from day to day?

Percy Glover 42:26

There are roughly about 3,000 non-fatal shootings in Michigan a year. There are roughly about 1,400 shootings a year that lead to death or homicide in Michigan a year. When you look at the cost of a non-fa- fatal shooting, which is about 1.2 million, and compare that to the cost of a shooting that leads to death homicide, that is about 1.6 million. The math is mathing. Multiply those numbers. 1.2 multiplied by 3,000. 1.6 multiplied by 1,400. We're talking about billions of dollars that is currently spent in response to a shooting that is non-fatal, that is a response to a shooting that leads to death and homicide. Intervention, prevention on CVI, with CVI efforts, those investments are minuscule in comparison to what we're already spending. So it is a priority to help educate lawmakers, policymakers, stakeholders, and elected officials that we have to evaluate the cost of what we're already spending, that we have to look at prevention and intervention that we see in real data, in real time works. That is a supreme priority. The next level of education that I believe would help in how things activate so randomly and spontaneously is that helping our young people understand that technology makes it impossible be, to be invisible today. Unless you're living on a island with no electricity, it is impossible to be invisible. It is hyper unfortunate that a shooting happened at the gas station on Carpenter and Dora Highway, and the two things that jumped right out at me, that you could hear a person say in a very numb way, "Somebody shot." And they said it that calmly, "Somebody shot." There was no hysteria. There was no crying. It was just a real flat, "Somebody is shot." That it's gotten to the point that we expect a shooting to happen because it's so common. It's so normal. But then also what is alarming for me is that when you look at that intersection, there are cameras right there at the gas station. There's cameras across the street of the gas station. There's cameras next door to that gas station at the Dollar Tree or Dollar General. Somebody saw those people. Whoever that person that did the shooting was recorded You threw your life away, and not only did you throw your life away, you potentially gave a judge and a courtroom all the evidence 'cause you were filmed. That we have to help young people understand that when you look at or even impulsively or non-impulsively consider breaking the law, you're being recorded. Technology is everywhere. So those would be the couple things that I would really say that are a priority. But specific to the CSC, Community Safety Collaborative, is that really doing a deep look at the numbers in regards to response and the cost of the response of a shooting that is non-fatal and one that leads to death and homicide, and also combining that with broad education. Not only policymakers and lawmakers and legislators and elected officials, but the community also, to help the community understand how their investments are I believe I can say this way, that are poorly represented. That if we invest on intervention and we invest in prevention, that we save so much more money when we look at the response in law enforcement, ambulance, funeral, judicial, prosecutorial, jail, prison, trauma, all these different things that we spend so much money on that we could put money on the front side of things.

Moses Bingham 47:03

Yeah, Percy you mentioned that and you kinda said it indirectly, but you talked about essentially, you know, what we've been talking about in our meetings, the cost of a shooting, the cost of a homicide, right? And that's $1.3 million and $1.1 million respectively, and those are coming from Detroit numbers. And we're actually working with our data folks right now to get a more clear idea of what it looks like for Flint numbers. And sadly enough, in 2025, there was roughly 33 homicides in the city of Flint. And right, and so do the math on, you know, how much that costs, and not even counting the heart cost of that, right? This is someone's child, this is someone's father, this is someone's mother or someone's relative that passed away from whatever reason from gun violence, and that could've been solved or could've been resolved in another way. And so, not only looking at, a birthday that's, that doesn't come around, or Thanksgiving that really looks differently, right? Or even a breadwinner that just causes a family to spiral out, right, economically. And so, we have to be really thoughtful about, what the cost of our actions are, right? So no, thank you for that, Percy, as we look at that, and even just with the aspect of trying to bring Advance Peace into our community, right? A program that started in California and has some other locations in throughout our nation, and has also done some work in Lansing as well. It is a intervention program that helps breaks the retaliatory cycle of gun violence, right? And so, we're looking a- and working to that end to make sure that we have programs that we have people at the table to make sure that we have the tools and the resources to make Flint and Genesee County a better place. Dr. Dotson for you could you share to that end?

Kenyetta Dotson 48:44

Yes. So many of us have a host of events, safety events that we do on an annual basis. And these events aren't just events just so that we can have a good time. Having a good time is a part of it but it's all about safety. It's all about bringing people together. It's- That

Moses Bingham 49:05

awareness.

Kenyetta Dotson 49:06

Yeah. That's right. It's all about giving hope and community, providing access to resources and services that people may have barriers to. So We don't wanna just develop something just for us because we know that between us, we might have 25 events annually or maybe more. But we know that there's other partners out there working just as hard, other community-based organizations that's working just as hard, and we want to incorporate all of what we're doing into one calendar so that we can be more informed about how do we go about, like, ensuring that certain events are in, quote, unquote, "hotspot areas," and that's just areas where a lot of violence takes place. And so we wanna make sure that we're paying close attention to those areas of focus specifically, but then also in other areas as well And in order to do that, we can't just have a flyer from a community partner who's not at the table, who's not a part of the collaboration who's not willing to allocate certain time to strategize and plan together. We can't just take your flyer and add it to the calendar or talk about your event with you not being present. You have to be there. We have to connect our dots, our individual and our collective dots. So we're thankful to our partner, Tyree Jones, who who have been really pulling together this community calendar on our behalf on the CSC's behalf. There's a host of events that are in there. These partners are working together. They are around the table. They are communicating about how do we leverage, how do we do better, how do we look for funding, support each other in other type of ways together. So those events are in there. And then also there has been a dashboard that's been created by Alan Harris from MSU, and that dashboard just has resources. It tells you how to access a variety of resources. I know if you've lost a loved one and they were a victim of violence, there's resources in there about victims advocacy and things of that nature. Housing, jobs, just a host of things. We have a partner that's around the table, Mi Workforce Development, who provides job training and a host of other things. So we just wanna make sure that people have access to this information. And then our partner, Julie Lopez just leveraged some resources and partnered with the CSC, and she, Crime Stoppers is at the table for a rights, resources, and support resource, where there's over 400 resources in this particular portal, and that has been added to the dashboard as well as the community calendar. Now the CSC takes place every second Wednesday of the month. Our next meeting, I believe, is July 8th. It's gonna be at St. Michael's Catholic Charities is hosting it, and it'll be from 12 to 2. If you haven't already been to the meeting or if you started and then you got busy, we're asking that you come back. And if you haven't been there, we're asking that you please attend. If you can start in July, that would be great. If you can't, we'll see you in August. So thank you for that question, Moses, and these are just a few things that we're working on.

Moses Bingham 52:12

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you both. Is there anything else either of you would want to add before we close?

Percy Glover 52:20

Just reiterate that again each person look in the mirror and find their own level of capacity. Again, if it's a small... There's no such thing as something too small. Your capacity is hearting a post on social media, that is great, and it does something again for viewership and potentially somebody see, sees it that may not have saw it. If your capacity is taking a few seconds, texting, calling a young person saying, "I love you," that did something emotionally, mentally in support for that young person. So just finding your level of capacity and finding what that capacity is and where it is for you to be able to do it consistently. That would be the thing that I would leave for anybody that's listening

Kenyetta Dotson 53:08

And for me, I'll say Moses said it earlier, it takes all of us. It takes each and every one of us to do this together. And if there's somebody out there trying to do it alone, I just want to say to you, you don't have to do it alone. Let's do it together. If I may, before we close out, I just want to lift up a few that we have lost in our community to violence, and we continue to pray for their families to keep them close at heart as we continue to do this work of non-violence and community safety. And we know that there's many that we aren't lifting up in name today, but trust and believe when I say that you're in our hearts. So I just want to say Daneisha, who was 12, Zanaya, who was 7, Tahari, who was 9, Johnaris, who was 6, Mariah Henderson, and her crime is still unsolved. Ramon, who was a husband and father, his crime is still unsolved. I don't know if you all remember Pastor Hart. He did a wonderful presentation to city council many years ago right before he was shot. If you google Pastor Hart city council, you can see the passionate message that he gave to city council during that time. Also, a young man by the name of Lawrence Jerlisa. She was a mom and her mother continues to advocate on her behalf. And then I'll lift up Virgil as well, and Virgil's crime is also still unsolved, and Ken Dickerson Jr.

Moses Bingham 54:36

Kenyon, thank you for those names, and definitely they're in our hearts and in our thoughts and prayers as we continue this heavy work. Dr. Dotson and Percy, thank you both so much. I know this is hard work, and you're part of many people out in this community who are doing this hard and heavy work, and Flint is better off for you two showing up day in and day out. So thank you once again for your time on today. Thank

Kenyetta Dotson 55:03

you. Thank you for having us.

Moses Bingham 55:06

For listeners who want to learn more about the Community Safety Collaborative, visit cfgf.org. This has been Philanthropy Speaks. I'm Moses Bingham. We'll be back next time with another conversation about the people and ideas strengthening Flint and Genesee County