What Record Labels Won't Tell You About Artist Development

The Music Industry Portal:
https://www.musicindustryportal.com/

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome back to the Music Industry Podcast hosted by Burstmo. We're here with Marwen and Claudia from Maison Riche, who have just told us they are celebrating a new and you've brought Prosecco, which is obviously a tradition of what? So you've just signed a new artist to a record label.

Speaker 3 0:20

Is that right we just signed?

Speaker 4 0:21

is a isaac frank to universal, as in today, nice yes, he's like all over your instagram, isn't he the guy that's big on tiktok?

Speaker 3 0:30

massive on tiktok.

Speaker 4 0:31

Yeah was it a similar story because we had you on for the last two podcasts with batman stevens. It was one of those situations where it was like tiktok blew up then got signed. Was it a similar situation? Similar situation, yeah. Similar situation, yeah.

Speaker 1 0:45

What was the story behind it? Were you just like running around London with meetings and trying to make it happen, or was it quite an easy one?

Speaker 3 0:54

It was quite an easy one. He's very, very talented, like Brighton kids, like we start working together last year in October, like incredible songwriters and you know, help him out. And then we said he already built a TikTok as a like influencer. He already had some buzz around him. And we just say to him look, your music is amazing, just stick it on social and see how it goes.

Speaker 5 1:19

He's dumpling the story.

Speaker 1 1:20

Yeah, you make it sound like you're like You've got it on podcast mode compared to being three drinks deep at the bar when we saw you half an hour ago.

Speaker 4 1:29

Yeah, literally half an hour ago. Yeah, I was in Miami, there was tits everywhere, and now you're like, yeah, so professional.

Speaker 5 1:35

Trust me, this story is so cool, how she met.

Speaker 3 1:40

I open the champagne and you do it there we go.

Speaker 5 1:49

Don't pretend met. Oh, I open the champagne and you do it. There we go. Pretend it's champagne, it's prosecco. Yeah, sorry guys, we're still in the music industry, we can't afford champagne. Here you go. No, the story how, how she met isaac is, I think, unbelievable. I I love the butterfly effect, especially when you can see it. And and this is a true butterfly effect how this all went. You can't make this up, you can't predict this.

Speaker 4 2:12

All right, you have to hop then.

Speaker 5 2:14

So do I tell it.

Speaker 3 2:16

Yes, all right.

Speaker 5 2:17

So how I met Claudia, let me start at the start of the butterfly effect. Claudia, let me start at the start of the butterfly effect. I was working at a record company about 10 years ago as an A&R, and the owner of that record company was also the owner of a publishing company and that publishing company bought Phrase. Differently at the time. They're now not with that company anymore, differently at the time. They're now not with that company anymore. I don't know the ins and outs of that deal, but she worked for Freys differently.

Speaker 5 2:51

At some point I organized a writing camp in Santorini and I had someone working for me and I fired that person in Santorini. What did they do? Oh, believe me, she was responsible for organizing the whole riding camp. And she came to Santorini and she, laid down on the stretcher by the pool, opened her book and I was like hey, what are you doing? And she was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna read my book. I was like aren't you supposed to get the people out for lunch? Lunch is served in 15 minutes. She was like, oh, right, okay. I was like, ah, then Booked her a flight home. Then this is the music. It gets worse this is the music.

Speaker 4 3:49

I was thinking that's a little bit hard. No, no, no no.

Speaker 5 3:51

It gets worse. This is the music industry, right? So we work with artists and creatives and you know you need someone to make sure that they are safe and do their things. You know, when in like management is a bit like sometimes looking after kids.

Speaker 4 4:13

Yeah, your babysitter.

Speaker 5 4:14

Yeah, sometimes, because creative people get creative ideas like I don't know, like they're, like maybe we should get a jet ski and put it in our pool or something. You know, or maybe that's me, but so so the reason what happened was not only the book, but she was there to basically look after everyone and let me tell you, she was the only one that broke her arm that week because she was running at the pool and all of this and then, and then that was the breaking point. She didn't get fired, of course, for breaking her arm. It was very unfortunate. No one would get fired for breaking their arm, but it was sort of the building point where it was like if anyone had to break their arm, it wasn't you, especially us, for running around the pool that everyone knows you shouldn't do so.

Speaker 5 5:12

Anyway, on top of this list of other things that went wrong, I was sitting down at like 3 am with the whole roster. Everyone was there and they were all like, yeah, we need someone, otherwise we're all leaving. So I was like I see my company crumbling here. You know, I just spent an expensive amount of money on on this santorini riding camp anyway. I was like, well, who do you want. You know, I said, rather than me having to do it, who would you want? And I said, rather than me having to do it, who would you want? And one of the first names that popped up was Claudia. And we all said, and everyone was like nah she's shit.

Speaker 5 5:55

She's too good, she ain't gonna leave. I'm sure she's. She got, she's getting taken care of, you know. And I was like, if you don't shoot your shot, you always miss. Hey, Claudia, are you looking for a job?

Speaker 3 6:11

On Instagram at 3 am On 4 am.

Speaker 5 6:15

And then the next day I woke up yeah, I am actually. I was like what is this about?

Speaker 3 6:32

Oh, okay. So Dan, that happened very mine.

Speaker 5 6:34

I met him twice before and you had hair at the time and you were you don't have to rub it in.

Speaker 4 6:37

You're the reason these men are losing their hair.

Speaker 1 6:39

Yeah, there's only two people in this room that's working with you yeah, there's only two people in this room that's working with you yeah, and, and we started working and yeah, within two months, I would say we already the whole roster, everyone started vibrating and everything.

Speaker 5 7:02

And then, um, I think it was what seven months or something like that I I went to claudia and was like, yeah, I want to, uh, make you my business partner. You're doing a fantastic job and I think it's only fair if you are part of this story. Um, and that was two years ago, three years ago.

Speaker 2 7:28

Three, two years.

Speaker 5 7:29

Yeah, two or three years ago now. And yeah, she worked for a company for what? Eight years or nine years couldn't get a mortgage, then became owner of the company as well get a mortgage, and then you moved to Brighton. Yes, and then please tell us what happened, because then so from there on yeah, basically on.

Speaker 3 7:54

So moved to Brighton and on that day I had too much pasta, because I make a massive portion of pasta this is gonna make sense in a bit and when I have too much food I go for a walk by the beach. So it just doesn't make sense. Maybe we are in a bit, I promise you okay. So walk by the beach and then in Brighton you have this venue where you have a lot of singers coming and do like gigs, and I was with my husband walking and like kudos to him as well. We heard this voice like from far away and I said to him there is no way on earth, this is someone singing live, this is playback. And Alex, my husband was like no, I think it's someone playing live. And I said to him babe, I'm in music industry for 16 years.

Speaker 3 8:36

I know when someone is playing live or not yeah, exactly so we had this bet kind of situation.

Speaker 3 8:44

So we went to see and I saw May Hill, who's one of the artists we manage now, singing live and I just literally dropped everything, sat down on the bar, forced my husband to sit down with me and I was like I need to speak to this girl. She's incredible. I need to work with her. Finished like she finished her set and I run to her, probably looked like a nutcase, vomiting words like I'm working music and you're amazing and I want to work with you. She probably thought I was crazy and which she did. She told me after, like I thought you were nuts, um, but connected with her.

Speaker 3 9:19

I remember you sending me a video that night yes and I was like go into that bar right now and sign and then, yeah, we met like a couple of days after and start working with her and she said to me by the way, my flatmate is also in music. And I was thinking like, okay, that's bizarre, but you know, let's hear everything. And then I met isaac and heard his music and I was thinking, oh my god, like this is just incredible two amazing people, they are flatmates, they live together. Please can I manage both of you? And then, yeah, we started to work together and the rest is history basically the chances of something like that happening to you is pretty slim.

Speaker 4 9:59

There's over 120 000 tracks uploaded to Spotify daily, so the chances of someone like Claudia, like Marwyn, coming across your music well, it's close to impossible. It's all about luck. It's about who you know, how much money you have. But what if I told you that wasn't the case? What if I told you that, for the price of a cup of coffee, you could get access to these people, their knowledge, their insights, their databases of contacts, their opportunities? That's exactly what the Music Industry Portal is. It makes sure you're connected with the industry, you're not an outsider looking in, because that's the difference between a successful artist and a failing artist. The best thing is, it's the price of a cup of coffee. So, instead of going to Starbucks this week, invest in your music career. I'll leave a link in the description.

Speaker 3 10:40

So now they have a song coming out together. Who got signed to a major label and yeah, that's not before Maison Riche, though, is it? No, that was recently, that's this year. Like last year, we started working together.

Speaker 5 10:54

Nice, which bank approves your mortgage? We've got to do a shout out to them.

Speaker 4 11:01

Is this part of the deal?

Speaker 2 11:02

It is it is, it is.

Speaker 5 11:05

I don't even know guys, quickly we're moving to the sponsor of this video are you allowed to talk about the signing.

Speaker 4 11:15

Yeah, go on, tell us then, what do you want?

Speaker 2 11:19

is it like one track deal, multiple track deal? The label?

Speaker 4 11:22

so the label is capital universal.

Speaker 3 11:26

They're a great team. We have the same team that did may stevens. We know the guys. They did a great job with her. Uh, we met everyone, you know, as per usual, you meet everyone around and, yes, we worked with them before. They did an incredible job before, so we were like no brainer here. Let's go with the same team. And, you know, isaac really loved them as well, because obviously that's what's the most important, right, like, it's not about me, it's not about Marwan, it's about who you deal with. So, yeah, that just made sense.

Speaker 4 11:53

And yeah, he signed for, uh, seven singles with them so far and uh, yeah, last time we spoke, I think you said like you never want to sign one track deals or you try to avoid them as much as you can because they're quite. I mean, they just get a viral hit and then they move on. Still, stand by that depends with who.

Speaker 3 12:15

Depends with who? Marwin?

Speaker 5 12:18

I think it very much depends on the situation that you're in I would say if you have a viral, viral hit, it wouldn't make sense to do a one-off um. But if you're a starting out artist, do a one-off, test them out, see if it's the right fit for you for the money for the contacts no, one-off deals are not for the money, no, no, no, they're more.

Speaker 5 12:44

You know, when you're a starting artist it's more about um, finding your team. And I would say all the major labels pretty much, for example, do pretty much the same job. They're all equally as powerful. They have about the same bank balance. Yeah, sure, one has more market share, but they are all very similar in the way they run their operations, run their business, their business model, their calculations on advances. It's all pretty much within the same, whether it's sony, universal, warner or whoever. It's all within the same. With independents it's a bit different.

Speaker 5 13:26

But one-off deals you don't do for the money. If you want money, long-term deals is where it's at. But yeah, one-off deals when you're starting artists is definitely recommended, because then you're not tied in, then you're not. You don't have the vulnerability of dropping the first single, it not going as you want it to. Same for the label they might go like ah, it isn't how we expected it, and especially the. You have to remember Sony, universal, warner are all public companies. They are there to please the shareholder, so they're profit driven. So as soon as they don't see profit in you, you're on the side, whereas an independent, they usually have much more of a like oh we invested money in this, we need to make it back, whereas a major is like oh, we spent a lot of money on this right off as a loss next.

Speaker 4 14:33

So with the meetings with like, say, isaac, for example, you literally spending a day just telling the same story. Yes, that's so boring it's for the artist, yeah he, he must be so bored by the end of the day.

Speaker 3 14:46

Yeah, he has the same question. They all ask him where are you from?

Speaker 5 14:49

What's your?

Speaker 3 14:49

aspiration La, de, la, de la. It has to be done, and I think for them, especially as artists. They see how people react to the same thing.

Speaker 5 14:57

Because it's a good standard right.

Speaker 3 15:06

If you ask the same thing, tell the same story, but you get different reaction. It's a good, you know way to see like who is actually genuine, not genuine interested, like who actually gives a fuck, whatnot, yeah, um. So yeah, it is draining. We did two days of back-to-back meetings seeing everyone and but that's, you know, that's what you do and that's what you like have to do in those situation. It's kind of like I don't know dating like you see, like when you go on tinder, you like find like the same question what do you do, like where you're from, all of the shit, but then you find a partner that fits and then you end up marrying them, it's true, but it's uh. Yeah, it is draining and but at least find me please.

Speaker 3 15:42

Marwin is single, by the way.

Speaker 4 15:43

Is this why you wanted to come on you? Thought this would get you a date.

Speaker 5 15:47

Hello everyone.

Speaker 1 15:48

On to the next advertisement Wait do you see our statistics on the gender split?

Speaker 4 15:55

Yeah, you better hope you're internet.

Speaker 1 15:58

I hope you like a lot of bloat.

Speaker 3 16:00

He's open to everything, yeah, good.

Speaker 5 16:04

Well, now you've run all the chances, haven't you? Well, I would. I would have a piece of advice there, what we always do first, we're talking about dating.

Speaker 5 16:17

No, I'm done, not for your Tinder, she might be better. She got married. I'm hopeless, but if you ever do get in those label meetings, um, there is some questions you can ask to see if they're genuinely interested in you or not, and a couple of questions. I I'm always a bit hesitant with advice in the music industry because there's no one way to roam, but there is a way to see if someone is genuinely interested in you. And one simple question it might surprise you is when you send your songs, just ask in the meeting what was your favorite song.

Speaker 5 17:04

You'd be surprised there's some faces just panicked, yep yeah they feel like they're on the spot because they haven't listened.

Speaker 4 17:10

Yeah, the first one is yeah, the first track and then in the drop box because they have to mention a title yeah and if they actually listened and they're actually a fan of one of the songs that you sent, they will mention which song.

Speaker 5 17:27

Yeah, that's one question, one that makes it so blatantly obvious If you're a new artist, if the A&R is actually and I say this because I was an A&R so what's?

Speaker 4 17:42

your history then. So you guys obviously met, because you did the writing camp. So what were you? Were you manager then, when you were doing the writing camp? But what were you?

Speaker 5 17:51

doing I, I, I was a manager. Then, uh, I'm still a manager, I'm still an anr. Um, so I was working for a record company when I was 18. I started, I blabbed myself into the company. I said, yeah, I know where to find good tunes. And then I was like shit, I got hired. Where do I?

Speaker 5 18:14

find good that are not signed. Okay? Um, then I worked at a company for about two and a half years. I made them a lot of money and then I left because I didn't make a lot of money. It's not about the money, but I made so little money I couldn't even leave my parents' house. So I was earning millions for this company and I couldn't even live on my own, so I left. Then I got called by max lucera. I got this call from the uk. I saw this uk number. I was like, hello, yeah, who's this? Yeah, max, oh, no idea. Yeah, uh, max was like yeah, I heard you're a free agent and uh, maybe you want to fly to london next week and maybe talk about working for us. I was like, sure, but who's us? Warner music?

Speaker 5 19:13

I was like, yeah, down, I had no job yeah, I needed money I sold everything in my house because, and um, I was like yeah, you know what, I've got nothing. You know which hotel do you want? I send them the most expensive hotel in london flew business to london. It's an hour flight for me, no point in business.

Speaker 5 19:39

I was the only one in the whole business section I was just like let me see how you know, like, uh, as, like a football player, you know, like you hear these stories of football players. They're like a club is interested in them. They they sort of test how much or what can I get away with? Anyway, they flew me out. I'm there. Oh, yeah, uh, we think you're a good fit for Atlantic. I'm like, yeah, whatever, sure, um, you know, I was just like wherever I go, I will do my thing.

Speaker 5 20:17

So whether they said whatever label within Warner, fuck it, I'm doing it. Also, I need pay rent. So they were like how much do you want? I sent an email. I was talking to everyone oh, what do you think? I sent an amount of money which, in my world, was ridiculous, ridiculous. I was like they're going to say no, whatever, mom, do you think it's right? My mom's like I think you're asking too much. My dad was like ask more. Anyway, I put it on the email, I said what I wanted and they instantly agreed I was like no, they didn't even downplay me shit so then I was at Atlantic.

Speaker 5 21:11

Two years was no success. Wasn't allowed to sign anything. I think I missed out on maybe 20 Grammys. I was there two years. I did how many signings do you think I did? 10 4 0, what did you do for 2?

Speaker 4 21:29

years you just like took meetings.

Speaker 5 21:32

I wish I took meetings I had. You know, fuck it, I'm gonna oust them. I had Lewis Capaldi Bruces in my mail. I was very interested in that song and, as all of you probably know, that song wasn't signed in the uk, it was signed in germany. But I wanted it, I wanted it desperately. I went to my boss. I was like I want this to be my first signing. I, I know and I get it.

Speaker 5 22:05

I came from an independent and now I was in a major. They are more selective. I get it. You know, at an independent you try out more things. You know you build more artists, etc. But they were like, yeah, we don't do that. Okay, I was like why not? They were just like we jump in.

Speaker 5 22:24

When I get it, it's like football. You know, like if you're FC Barcelona. But I still disagree because I think if you are Atlantic, one of your strongest points could be artist development. Or if you are any of those majors, if you have the money to back it, I think you have an advantage to to build artists. But, um, it was getting used to.

Speaker 5 22:47

But then then I was like I want to sign this and they were like, no, but I'm not going to oust the reason, but it was a ridiculous reason. The reason was so stupid. And then I was there for two years no signings. It's like being a football player, basically how I see it. I was working for a big club in Amsterdam and then I made my transfer as a football player to the premier league, but I did it too early and I got benched. And for two years I was on the bench and then I was like this this is shit, you know, I'm I'm not playing, I'm losing my whole reputation as an A&R, I'm losing. So I was building my company on the side during that and that's when, well, we saw dom today.

Speaker 1 23:34

That was our first client, uh, and he's still with us now after nine years wow yeah, so that's sort of that's my background in rough outlines do you get the impression like the, the smaller record labels and management are starting to kind of take over and have a bit more power now, because in our world, let's say, we're getting less and less major label contracts but we're getting big artists still, but they're like, signed from like, like, for example, you guys introduced us to altego and and geo from fast boy and what.

Speaker 4 24:13

That's what we're finding anyway, that it's more yeah, but we're not even working with the label in terms of like the label, aren't really involved in any of the marketing. They they do like the radio stuff, taking it to djs, but then they'll just give them the budget and be like sort that out and that's that's. So just give them the budget and be like sort that out, and that's so different to how it used to be.

Speaker 1 24:33

But I think that's great. It is and it's starting to make it.

Speaker 4 24:36

It's like acting as a bank and just giving it to them and they do some stuff, but then they get to just do stuff themselves.

Speaker 1 24:42

I'm hoping artists are getting wise to the fact that more money doesn't equal success and you can actually basically you don't need those resources anymore, you can do it yourself. Oh, absolutely the majors are struggling right now the thing is, though, they're still making record profits on those. Like when I look at music news, they're still posting record profits. That confuses me so much.

Speaker 3 25:06

Their catalog, catalogs, catalog.

Speaker 1 25:09

And where do they make the money from them though Catalog? So, for example, who's paying for them?

Speaker 4 25:14

Well, look at like the Abba Voyage and stuff. Like that will be making. Well, I mean, that's a private company that made that and built it. I actually spoke to those guys. They wanted to market it because I think it's on their website if not sneak preview. They're doing it with loads of different bands like queen and stuff and like that whole. Imagine how much money the labels that own that bad catalog are making.

Speaker 5 25:36

It's huge let's, let's, uh uh. Take a great example michael jackson. I don't know, I don't remember when this deal happened, but Sony bought the masters of Michael Jackson for a billion.

Speaker 1 25:55

How are they?

Speaker 5 25:55

going to make that back then? Because Michael Jackson is still on all the radio stations, it's still being streamed an awful lot. It's still being synced to commercials, video games, whatnot. You know that's still happening and that is where a lot of the majors still get their money from. Let's say, to put it in an example, let's say you have a catalog that generates 100 million a year. It doesn't matter if you spend 20 million a year.

Speaker 5 26:26

It doesn't matter if you spend 20 million a year. It doesn't matter if you spend 20 million a year and and lose all of it. You can do that. And all the majors work with a signing budget every every year. I believe it's around october or november. They get an day every department, let's say, a warner parlophone, atlantic warner music, whatever. They all get their budget assigned that they get for a whole year and they all spend it, because if you don't spend it, they say, oh, you didn't spend it, you, you, you need less this year, right. So they all spend it to the max. Um, but sometimes they spend it too early, right, they find an artist in february, they spend the whole signing budget and they it's tough to do other signings the whole year through. That's how they work. They use their back catalog as an investment to get new catalog. That's the business model. But all these majors have such a ridiculous catalog.

Speaker 4 27:31

That is what keeps them afloat, didn't justin bieber's back catalog just get bought like something like that and he sold it for something it was insanely cheap.

Speaker 4 27:39

For how much he sold it for that's gonna make people the money for years to come. Yeah, but isn't it strange that, like as an artist, you get? Obviously they're giving you money, but you get pulled in by that when there aren't as many success stories? For example, look at what you guys have done with these artists. There aren't many examples of labels picking up an artist and helping them get to that point because their success stories are more the back catalogs.

Speaker 5 28:07

Too risky.

Speaker 4 28:08

Yeah, but isn't it strange that the signings are still so attractive?

Speaker 3 28:11

Yeah.

Speaker 5 28:12

If you have the money, would you rather jump in at the start or be like now it's a safe bet, Now I'm going to put my money on.

Speaker 4 28:19

And now the chance that.

Speaker 5 28:20

I lose my money is maybe 30%.

Speaker 2 28:22

Yeah.

Speaker 5 28:22

Rather than 80%, and I don't have to do so much work because it's already there. That's how the majors go. They have the money and they know there is not a lot of competition. Who is the competition of? Warner Music, sony, universal, bmg, that's it. Who else? Who has the money to put it up To sign an artist? Let's say who in this music industry has a million euros to sign one artist.

Speaker 5 28:54

It's only the majors yeah and some independents have it, but they would go on a stretch, they would really be like okay, you know, like the, the race horse, uh, uh, the horse racing thing. You know, if you put your money on the, on the horse, it's almost like that the majors are like we're gonna put it on the one with the best thoughts, whereas an independent you almost have to go like, yeah, I'm going for that one, the, the 101 chance, because I can't compete with the rest.

Speaker 4 29:29

I mean we're talking about it like it's really negative. You guys sign artists the labels all the time because they help you. They still get the results at a certain point in their career, right.

Speaker 5 29:39

Yeah, it's not a negative thing. I would say it's about understanding what the game is. Yeah.

Speaker 4 29:45

I mean, you guys have lawyers. You have like a lawyer that you work with really closely. How important are you finding that really looking through those contracts is?

Speaker 3 29:54

You need to look at every single wording, every single sentence Caught anything in recent contracts, there's always things in contracts.

Speaker 3 30:05

You discuss terms and you have the rough idea and then, on the long form, you find sentences there and there where it's like oh actually, where is this in there? You know we haven't discussed this and that's why you have a good lawyer, because you know, like that's their job, they know what they're doing, they know what every single words mean. Uh, that's the way you protect yourself as an artist because, like we discussed, you can be stuck in a deal forever if you don't have the right lawyer. It's super important to have someone who actually understands what's going on in the paper.

Speaker 5 30:36

Second piece of advice get a lawyer before you get a manager, publisher, record label, whatever First person you should get in the music industry as an artist is a lawyer.

Speaker 1 30:50

And you mentioned some of those deals you mentioned earlier for the podcast, that some of those deals you got to make sure that you have spending. What was the term? Spending control approval? Approval rights on spending, yeah yeah, otherwise things get spent and put in your name.

Speaker 3 31:08

You have to pay off we had a story about someone who went for his signing dinner. So the label signed them and said like okay, we take you to the restaurant, everyone to celebrate and spend I don't know like 5 grand on a nice dinner with champagne and lobster for the whole team. And then they looked at their statement, their record statement, and the signing dinner was on the statement as a recuperable to them. Insane, that's mental.

Speaker 1 31:35

They can't put what they want.

Speaker 3 31:36

It's crazy yeah.

Speaker 1 31:37

So you guys travel. I look at your Instagram and you guys travel a lot.

Speaker 4 31:40

You're all over the place.

Speaker 5 31:42

I mean she more than me.

Speaker 2 31:44

Yeah, yeah, why does she?

Speaker 4 31:44

get a whole nose. What's that?

Speaker 2 31:45

about he has a kid.

Speaker 5 31:46

She deserves it.

Speaker 3 31:47

Oh, there we go.

Speaker 2 31:49

I'm like he has a kid, she deserves it.

Speaker 1 31:53

What's all the traveling then? For what reasons do you usually go away?

Speaker 3 31:58

Like work. Like usually it's for work, so it can be from. For example, went to Miami Music Week. It was, for you know, solidifying relationship that we have, meeting people that we actually work with in the flesh, building new relationships as well. Uh, just like networking in general and making deals happen on trips as well. Uh, it can be. For example, next week I'm going to berlin for a shoot for one of our artists, for promo.

Speaker 1 32:27

So what's that happening in Berlin and not the UK?

Speaker 3 32:29

Well, this one. They are like they signed to a German label. They signed to Warner Germany. So we're going over there to meet the team, catch up and do everything.

Speaker 1 32:37

German artist.

Speaker 3 32:39

UK artist Signed in Germany.

Speaker 1 32:42

Why Bit like the Lewis Capaldi thing?

Speaker 3 32:44

Yes.

Speaker 5 32:46

James Arthur was also signed in germany germany just like happier to take risks um, so the top music markets in in the world are the uk, japan, america, germany, france. Uh, the uk anr is very different from the&R. I always say if you want to play a fun drinking game, email every UK A&R you know, and for every email that says I'm not working here anymore, you take a shot. You'd probably be drunk within four emails. Yeah, so, whereas with German it's a bit different. Yeah, how do I say? The competitiveness is still there, but they are. They are like within the lifespan of a uk and ours, about two years. If you don't get a massive thing in two years, you're out. Basically, whereas in germany it's a bit different. Um, it's a bit more nuanced. Like you see people much more on the same positions for a long time, whereas in the uk you see the anr shift like, uh, musical chairs, you know, like no, no joke yeah, and do you so?

Speaker 1 34:06

you find these trips quite useful, like the networking events and things. Is that? Which events are you going to in?

Speaker 3 34:13

October we have ADE, which we do like every year. Well, he lives in Amsterdam, so that's very handy, but you get the whole like music industry, like in the world coming over. So you get to meet like the Americans, german, french, english, like everyone that you don't necessarily meet all the time because we're so far away from each other, and you can build new relationships, have a new opportunity. You can also, for example, if you sign a new artist, spread the words as well to everyone out there. We often play record to people like listen to this in people's faces. They love that that's such a music industry thing to do.

Speaker 5 34:56

I'm going to play it and stare at you and wait for your reaction the worst one is I've had this before when they start handing you their airpods and they're like, listen to this and and I'm like, can I get an ear infection? Yeah, no thanks, Playing on the speaker.

Speaker 4 35:18

I feel like we haven't addressed what we've got, like a fluffy bowl.

Speaker 3 35:21

Oh yeah, so we bought some goodies. Okay, do you want to show the new goodies, the other goodies?

Speaker 5 35:26

Okay, so let's play a little music in the street game, okay Do you want to show the new goodies, the other goodies. So let's play a little music industry game.

Speaker 1 35:30

Okay, Okay, guys, all right, I hope I involved chocolate.

Speaker 5 35:32

So I've got a little music industry game here. It's called gambling.

Speaker 2 35:38

And I'm going to teach you guys about A&R.

Speaker 5 35:41

So right here I've got four scratch cards.

Speaker 4 35:44

So Do we just take a pick of which one we want?

Speaker 5 35:48

No hold on.

Speaker 4 35:49

Left or right left these are for me.

Speaker 5 35:56

Pick a number one to four three he's rooping off here you go

Speaker 2 36:06

one to three two Thank you which number One?

Speaker 4 36:17

Okay, so we have scratch cards in our hands now, so oh yeah, people might be listening to this rather than seeing it, we're holding scratch cards, we're holding scratch cards, we're holding scratch cards and basically everyone went on their feeling.

Speaker 5 36:31

Right, I didn't suggest anything. I was just like which one do you want to go for? Well, that's, I didn't suggest anything. I was just like which one do you want to go for? Well, that's anr. In a nutshell, it is feeling you don't know what is going to work. It is a gamble, but it would be really funny if I win right now.

Speaker 4 36:47

Right, I didn't have any choice I feel like this is going to be a magic trick.

Speaker 5 36:51

I didn I wish how much top price of 5,000 pounds If I win 5,000 pounds right now.

Speaker 4 36:59

Let's see. Let's see if anyone wins. All right Hold on.

Speaker 3 37:03

So what do we do? We scratch all of it. Yeah Okay, here we go, here goes nothing, all right.

Speaker 5 37:09

So In a game if the coins add up to over one.

Speaker 4 37:13

I did this might bring me back and maybe want to get them again it was.

Speaker 1 37:16

It was kind of weird.

Speaker 4 37:16

No, it was when I hated my life yeah it was my first job in the music industry what was your job? Like I didn't even ask you actually it was in PR, traditional PR, like pitching for blogs and magazine coverage and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 5 37:31

I lost.

Speaker 3 37:32

I won one pound and then on this one I didn't win. That sucks 2020.

Speaker 5 37:41

Well, now you can write off the advance.

Speaker 3 37:44

I won a pound, which is great.

Speaker 5 37:48

Reinvest it, there you go.

Speaker 3 37:50

That game cost a pound, so we didn't lose anything. No, I didn't get anything.

Speaker 5 37:54

This is a bit music industry. In a nutshell, the way is is you can believe in the card you got, because you all made your own decision based on your feeling. You all thought the card you picked was going to win. I all gave you a choice. You could have said two, you didn't. You could have said four, you didn't. It doesn't matter. That's what A&R is too. Um, you go on the feeling. You listen to it, you love it, but you might be wrong. I've had many tracks where I was like this is it? Nope? Yeah, you know so it is a bit of a gamble, but there's good gamblers and there's bad gamblers.

Speaker 4 38:37

I'm a good one. Guys Sign up with me. Yeah, you won.

Speaker 5 38:42

But I do think it's a bit of fun because maybe you made the decision for left to right. I still have these four. I'm going to scratch them tonight and let you guys know so, yeah, that is.

Speaker 5 39:01

Uh, it is a bit a bit of a fun goody, but I always say to to people music is a bit like a scratch card. Every song you make is a scratch card. You don't know what's gonna happen. There's a lot of examples of people making a song and going like this is the worst fucking song I made in my whole life and it becoming a massive hit. Plenty of examples.

Speaker 3 39:23

Yeah, we get it all the time.

Speaker 5 39:24

Yeah, naked sexual is one of them. Do you guys remember that song? I'm feeling sexual and you should be sexual.

Speaker 4 39:34

No, you just pointed it out. I'm feeling sexual and you should be sexual.

Speaker 2 39:37

No, you just pointed at him. He went naked sexual.

Speaker 5 39:39

I'm sensing the you know.

Speaker 2 39:41

The bald vibes.

Speaker 1 39:42

The bald sexual vibes right here.

Speaker 5 39:45

No, but there are so many examples of songs you know that were made where people were like this sucks and it becoming a hit, and there's a lot of examples. We don't see them right. I always wonder. I love wondering about things and one of the things I wonder about how many songs a year get signed where someone goes? This is the one, and it doesn't happen. Thousands, thousands.

Speaker 1 40:14

Right.

Speaker 2 40:14

Yeah, that's your Right yeah.

Speaker 5 40:17

That's your scratch card, yeah.

Speaker 2 40:21

It's a good game.

Speaker 3 40:22

Yeah, what else is in your bag? I always wonder why you bought this. Now I know there was no meaning behind it oh it was Prosecco.

Speaker 4 40:28

You didn't explain it before. No, he said to me, I bought scratch cards he he bought. Scratch Girl and you were like, oh, it's going to be a rough night.

Speaker 5 40:34

Listen, give me a. I'm going to return all of these. Is there a 14-day return policy?

Speaker 1 40:42

here. You can't do that with artists, though.

Speaker 5 40:47

Funny you say that, but there is some things that you could do as an artist. Go on then. So this applies to europe. I don't know where your audience is if there isn't any american listeners. Your laws are cooked you are cooked.

Speaker 5 41:05

Everything in america is cooked, but uh, especially your laws, because the american laws are about the most money wins, whereas the european laws is more about what is fair. Um, and that system applies pretty much everywhere in europe, including although you guys are not europe anymore, but um, yeah, uh, one one of the ways is that, as an artist, you are in control of the creative decision in the end.

Speaker 2 41:39

You are.

Speaker 5 41:41

So if you don't stand behind it, even if the song is finished, you can always later down the line say I don't stand behind it creatively anymore, it's your art. You are not forced to display your art if you don't think.

Speaker 1 41:59

it's not who you are anymore I mean, what's the taylor swift thing? For example yeah yeah, I see yeah, so she's stuck with it yeah yeah but she just brought them back recently, didn't she? Yeah?

Speaker 2 42:15

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 42:16

Yeah, and that's why the re-recording clause in your contract is also important, because she had a low re-recording clause. I bet she had a re-recording clause that was like two years, three years, which is quite. You know, if you have a lawyer, they will negotiate it at that point, which means you can't re-record your own songs within two to three years and after that you can, which is what she did as well.

Speaker 1 42:43

So that allowed her to do the Taylor's version.

Speaker 5 42:45

I see, yeah you're allowed to create a new master of your own song. But sometimes if you don't check your contract those re-recording it's called a re-recording restriction in your contract. They sometimes put them up to 20 years, sometimes it's perpetuity is not really a thing anymore in america. Who gives a shit do you sign us artists?

Speaker 4 43:26

are you predominantly european?

Speaker 5 43:30

our whole roster is european yeah at moment. It's a bit difficult with time zone.

Speaker 3 43:34

Yeah, we would love to work with Americans as well. But yeah, like signing to an American deal it would be difficult.

Speaker 4 43:44

Yeah, also, you spend quite a lot of time with your artists, so that would be difficult.

Speaker 3 43:49

Yeah, it's not impossible and we're thinking about getting people over to the US as well, to have someone in time zones over there and things like that. So it is doable. But I think because we are so hands-on right, like I literally go to, like we see our artists, we speak to them all the time, like the guys I have in Brighton, I go to their house pretty much every week. We're very hands-on it would be difficult. I think we need someone over there.

Speaker 1 44:16

Not impossible to do, but, yeah, preferably have someone there and it's still just artists, because I remember you did a lot of songwriter stuff yeah, we have songwriters, producers, artists and still a main part of your business, yeah, yeah in terms of roster it's changed a bit since last time I came.

Speaker 5 44:33

Yeah, right but in terms of income, artists are like for us well, artists are bringing in more than the songwriters, because before you were selling songs and that was, yeah, big money for you.

Speaker 3 44:44

But, to be honest, a lot of our songwriters and producer have their own artist project as well now, because they seem yeah, the benefit. What would you give a good song to someone else when you can do it yourself?

Speaker 5 44:55

and yeah, the you know benefit especially when you shelf.

Speaker 5 44:58

I think every writer, producer has on average. Look, I'm gonna say this I worked at atlantic right, what what I told before? And I remember, uh, uh, speaking to some people who were looking after Ed Sheeran and they were telling me that he has like 300 demos on his hard drive there are likely never gonna see the light of day, and that just shows how much music is out there that we're never gonna hear. Right, and I'm someone I'm like, yeah, why would you spend all? To me it sounds like being a cleaner, cleaning a whole office and then being like I don't need the payment. Why are you spending all day right to make something and to not show it to the world?

Speaker 5 45:50

Unless, as an artist, you're like, yeah, I don't like this song, but if yeah, to me it sounds very inefficient to spend money, spend time. You know which time is more valuable than money? Uh, uh, you can't buy time, but you spend like eight hours in the studio making the record whatever, just for someone at a label to say I don't think we should release this. You waste it the whole day. Why shouldn't it come out? Does it matter if it's a hit? Right Is an art about showcasing and maybe, yeah, three people like it and what?

Speaker 3 46:32

And maybe 50 million people like it. You what? Maybe 50 million people like it. You never know Exactly.

Speaker 5 46:35

You never know. Also, who says that A&R is right? We just done the scratch cards. We were all wrong.

Speaker 2 46:44

I'm good.

Speaker 5 46:46

No, you are break even, you recouped your artist.

Speaker 3 46:50

But the best thing is, I didn't spend my money.

Speaker 4 46:54

Hey, listen, I still got these I'm gonna be gutted if you win thousands, I feel like I've definitely lost if we win the 5k we take you out for dinner now, that's when.

Speaker 5 47:03

That's yeah, yeah, that's a good deal, that's what, let's say, a sony feels like if they see a warner sign and they want it, and so, um, I think that is. That is the thing you know. Like there's so many songs on the shelf yeah and I. That's why we tell all our writers, producers why shell them?

Speaker 1 47:25

I often wonder if artists spend, uh, make, too big of a deal of releasing a song like, for example, us is having a youtube channel and a podcast and uploading to reels. If something tank, if this podcast gets podcast gets five views, it doesn't matter, it's just life like then you move on to the next one and then another one will take off and then nobody even saw the one that didn't get. They got the five views, etc. If you have that in a way and mentality you'll just get nervous too.

Speaker 4 47:53

I think it's because there's so much emotion put into it and they think that, especially because they work so long on one song by the time that they're like finished with it. They're like, oh old, don't really like it anymore whereas for everyone else it's brand new yeah, that too but we even have that from working in marketing.

Speaker 4 48:09

Like, by the time they're bringing it to us could be like a year and a half since they even wrote it. They're over it and we're like okay, what's the narrative behind this? Let's like really think about how we're going to push this out and they're like alright, so like they're over it. So yeah, I do get it. It's just for everyone else, it's a brand new track, isn't it?

Speaker 5 48:29

yeah, but let's say, have you guys been to Amsterdam? Yeah long time ago.

Speaker 3 48:33

No, I haven't been to Amsterdam.

Speaker 5 48:35

You have.

Speaker 3 48:36

I come to see you all the time. Yeah, oh, yes.

Speaker 5 48:40

Have you been to the Van Gogh?

Speaker 3 48:42

No, yes, yes.

Speaker 5 48:43

Have you been to the Van Gogh? No, Well, let's say you go to the Van Gogh Museum which is a museum centered around one artist. Are you going to like every painting, so as an artist, doesn't matter if everyone likes your painting? Yeah as much as the previous one or the next one or one not. You know, that's the. Also, the industry that we're in is that there's a lot of opinions, but who cares about the opinions? We don't know who's right.

Speaker 5 49:15

Again, the scratch card you can have a feeling about your scratch card doesn't mean you're right. You know, I've been involved in tracks where no one believed in it and it became a billion streams. So that's what I would say to any artist don't overthink your art at what point do you know that track's going to pop off?

Speaker 1 49:35

like when? When's that key signal? Is it spotify picking up editorials or is it going viral on tiktok like what? When can you say yeah, we've got something nowadays?

Speaker 5 49:48

creations on tiktok no social media interesting what people using as a sound, using your song, yeah, yeah we've been playing with ai a lot on that yeah, it's like we've been making ai accounts.

Speaker 4 50:00

I mean maddie spent the entire one half hour journey here strain from literally like swiping, yeah, from these just watching like big doing a vlog bigfoot's got a vlog now and, yeah, she's obsessed with it.

Speaker 4 50:17

But now we're like well, yeah, I think it's just gonna be a new form of way of promoting, just because, if you look at content as a whole, everyone's done it like the if you even the most outrageous content you've got mr beast, you've got, you've got a normal tiktok is doing it like singing in every single location you possibly can. So now we've got this like slightly new trend where people are just getting Like I saw Mary, like as in Joseph and Mary doing a vlog.

Speaker 5 50:41

Like you're going to see new AI brought in.

Speaker 4 50:44

That's a new way to promote music, because people are getting so bored of content. Views are across the board down, so it's definitely getting to a point where it's so much harder Like even when we were talking about Mae Stevens, this was what Two years ago. When she did that video that blew up. I wonder, if she did it now, how it would have performed, because it's just such a competitive space. You've got to be so creative.

Speaker 1 51:09

My point was going to be how many scratch cards can you buy with this?

Speaker 5 51:13

this ai, though like instead of having one piece of content, yeah you can now buy a hundred.

Speaker 1 51:18

You can put a hundred different things out yeah, ai based.

Speaker 5 51:22

Yeah, because it's not a person, so you can literally yeah, have you ever, have you guys, heard of uh fruity music?

Speaker 2 51:28

fruity music?

Speaker 5 51:29

yeah, I don't think so all right, this is cool. You guys haven't heard of it yeah but recently this little independent company from Holland. Was it Strange Fruits? Exactly.

Speaker 4 51:39

Yes, oh it's him yeah, yeah. Yeah, he did like the AR music.

Speaker 5 51:42

He made the playlist. Yeah, yeah. You know he sold it right.

Speaker 4 51:45

Yes, no. Who did he sell it to?

Speaker 5 51:47

Do you in a?

Speaker 4 51:48

mountain he's. I keep kind of on my Instagram because he's running ads on this new business he's got according to the news reports, it's up to 100 mil to create music group which just shows well, he sold that ALI catalogue for that or the playlist.

Speaker 1 52:06

He sold the whole brand he was the first to start playlist ads, though yeah with like simpsons stuff and things like that. We, we took a lot of inspiration from him. Yeah, um to to start our ads as well yeah, because they worked.

Speaker 5 52:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But it just shows again that it's someone in the music industry, that if you ask anyone on the street, even in within music industry, I'm sure if I walk into any of the major label offices and ask about fruity music, strange fruits whatever, a lot, of, a lot of people wouldn't even know it, but it just sold for millions yeah you know, it just shows as well. If you have a good idea, yeah, believe, and you believe in it, go for it.

Speaker 4 52:53

We're talking about this on the journey. Here, though, like how a good idea isn't someone else's idea, as in, like everyone is just trying to recreate what they've seen because it worked. The reason it's a good idea is because no one else has done it Like he did that years ago. Well, now everyone's trying to do AI music and it's just not working because you can you can tell it's a guy music, and even like the playlist ads. We've grown ours. Now we've got like 44 playlists with over a million followers. If we started today, we spent like 350 grand on them. I reckon it would cost us like half a mil at least yeah because everything's just everyone's trying to do it yeah

Speaker 3 53:28

but it's the same for everything. Like yesterday we had a content day with different influencers and they all had like the different you know thing. Like one guy was like stopping people in the street to ask them question. One guy was oh, I'm gonna give like inspirational quote and film the reaction to people. Yeah, like they all that one idea that they constantly did and it worked out for them. And those guys are now like getting requests from major label brands, like they're making loads of money.

Speaker 3 53:53

They're all living in Covent Garden, you know, which is central London. Yeah, just by doing like one day of filming like three, four videos, just based on that one idea, like, oh, you know what? I'm going to buy a mic, stop people asking them questions or give inspirational quotes, it's everything like that now, and they went for it and it worked out.

Speaker 5 54:12

And I imagine a lot of people, if they would say I have this idea, would have said no.

Speaker 3 54:16

No, it's too good. Yeah, yeah, don't do it.

Speaker 5 54:18

Which happens a lot in music as well. Yeah, yeah, there's there and I get it. You're a creative, you know. It's almost like you're cooking food Right. And then I put the plate for all of you. You might like it, you might hate it, you might in the middle, doesn't? Matter for my recipe if I love it, that's what you should be as an artist. Yeah, doesn't matter, if you love it, that's. Art.

Speaker 4 54:47

Van gogh is a cool example because I mentioned no one liked his paint, his paintings, that he died, yeah.

Speaker 5 54:53

He died as a broke person. He cut off his own hair out of depression and out of protest he got famous after his death. That's the funny thing, right? Everyone said you're shit when he was doing it. Pretty much. And it's actually Van Gogh, guys, not Van.

Speaker 4 55:12

Gogh, sorry, I'm getting waved at.

Speaker 2 55:13

We're going to have to wrap it up.

Speaker 4 55:14

Actually Van Gogh guys, not Van Gogh. Sorry, I'm getting waved at. We're going to have to wrap it up Is there anything else in the bag Plenty?

Speaker 3 55:21

Plenty, but maybe we'll save it for another episode.

Speaker 2 55:23

Follow our Instagram, yeah.

Speaker 3 55:25

Not the Maison Rich ones, because we are quite bad at keeping it up, but our personal one.

Speaker 1 55:28

Yeah, okay, so which Instagrams do you want plugged then? If you want plugged, then. If you want to keep up with these guys.

Speaker 3 55:34

Go on, mine Twiggypop, and then Marwen is Marwen.

Speaker 5 55:38

Marwen FDW for the win.

Speaker 1 55:43

We'll link them down below, so thanks very much.

Speaker 5 55:46

You know what someone said.

Speaker 2 55:49

Someone said I thought it was fuck the world.

Speaker 3 55:55

I don't think it's ever been fuck.

Speaker 4 55:56

The world has it no maybe you're just a pessimist thanks very much for watching or listening on Spotify.

Speaker 1 56:04

If you found it useful, drop it a like. If you've got any questions, drop a comment and we'll see you in the next episode.