166 - New Year - New Words

Kickstarting Season 7: New Year Resolutions and Reflections

In the season opener, Jamie and Kurt reflect on the past year and discuss their personal and professional resolutions for 2025. Kurt talks about the sense of agency and AI's role in education and business, while Jamie embraces the concept of 'Kintsugi,' finding beauty in brokenness. They also dive into recent sketches, the influence of films, and teaching experiences. Join them as they set the tone for a new season filled with introspection, growth, and creativity.

00:00 New Year Greetings and Radio Voices
01:14 3D Printing Adventures
02:59 Guatemalan Coffee and Nicknames
05:52 Reflecting on Resolutions
12:36 Teaching Experiences and Adaptive Reuse Projects
32:30 Kicking Off with Humor
33:10 Discussing the Word for 2025
33:53 Exploring the Concept of Agency
39:51 Reflecting on Personal Growth
41:25 Introducing Kintsugi
49:56 Sketching and Creativity
01:03:51 Wrapping Up and Looking Forward

Transcript

Kurt Neiswender: 0:32

Hey Jamie, happy new year.

Jamie: 0:35

Happy new year, Kurt.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:37

How do you like that? A little bass y.

Jamie: 0:39

Yeah, a little bass y. I am recovering from a little Like a radio voice, so gotta get, gotta get bass tones.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:47

The you know, those NPR people, they have great radio voices. I mean, they are NPR, so, they should be.

Jamie: 0:55

There's probably a class for that.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:57

They also, they also have to have a weird name. Do you ever, do you ever, do you ever notice, Do you ever notice? They all have very distinct names.

Jamie: 1:09

Well, it's cause you can't see them. So they have to have a distinct name to go with their distinct voice. You know,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:13

Manush Zamorodi. I mean, that's like a, that's a name.

Jamie: 1:18

It's a lot of syllables. Ramteen

Kurt Neiswender: 1:19

Arablui.

Jamie: 1:22

Don't ask me to spell these things.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:24

No, but I do encourage all people to listen to some public radio. Cause,

Jamie: 1:29

cause I have trouble spelling lots of things. So even the easy words,

Kurt Neiswender: 1:34

can you spell 2025?

Jamie: 1:38

Yes. Yes. I can work that one out cause it's right in front of me, right there. I can, I can see it. I can see it right in front of me. It's that you can see the future. I can see the future.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:46

I can, I'm looking through the future, right into the future with your digital

Jamie: 1:52

fabrication party.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:55

I have, as I, as we learned, right, for my business, the business side of things, I built up a little army of 3d printers, you play with the farm and, you know, you could download these little files and boom, boom, boom, you know, these, so these, you know, Shades, which I'm probably going to wear all year long. They're appropriate

Jamie: 2:22

architect fun at parties Where's his own

Kurt Neiswender: 2:29

gears? Yeah, I print my own costumes. Yeah, the was I gonna say? They it only took about a half hour 40 minutes, I think and then these this other pair are a little beefier, but they don't bend like this These hinge, which is kind of clever. Anyway, I, I digress. Thanks for obliging my

Jamie: 2:56

No, no. It's that time of year, you know, you gotta

Kurt Neiswender: 2:58

technological follies. They're follies.

Jamie: 3:01

Yeah. This is Kurt's creativity at work.

Kurt Neiswender: 3:06

Yeah. You know, it's It's in between semesters. So I got a, I got a free time.

Jamie: 3:13

Well, I mean, you know, we didn't get to talk about the end of the semester. So I figured that that's going to be part of this wrap up. But before we get to sort of, you know, the, the catch up and the wrap up of 2024 and, and all those things. So what's in the cup that you're having to say?

Kurt Neiswender: 3:32

So, you know, so I took a trip at the very end of the semester, I went out West to go visit my brother. In San Diego area and prior to our visit about a month ago my aunt and cousin, aunt, uncle, cousin from Guatemala who are, you know, from like live in Guatemala, not have moved to the States. They came in to the country to visit and they so they spent time with my mom and they spent time with my brother. Anyway, so they gifted to my brother to gift to me. A little bag of Guatemalan coffee from Guatemala. How do you like that? It was in a mug.

Jamie: 4:22

Do they know? Do they know that you're the the Coffee Boy? Coffee boy.

Kurt Neiswender: 4:28

Did you listen to that episode? I did

Jamie: 4:30

listen to that episode. Yeah. To the one

Kurt Neiswender: 4:31

where I lost my, I got a new name. I You got a name? Get my name. Name, yeah. Not Coffee Boy. It's like, I actually listened to that. It was in the airport. It was quite funny. It's like when the, given that

Jamie: 4:41

like when the angels get their wings and the, the bell thing does or whatever, I was like expecting like, like their sound effect button to be,

Kurt Neiswender: 4:50

you know, every time, every time Coffee is, that's a good one. Every time coffee's delivered, Kurt gets his name back, so. Yeah, and then they like, then they, they humble bragged about how many episodes had transpired from the promise to the delivery.

Jamie: 5:09

Well,

Kurt Neiswender: 5:09

you know. And then I was like, I was like, you know, you're a flight in numbers over here, but anyway, that's. It's, it's, it's good for the,

Jamie: 5:16

it's good for the story. It's just good for the story. Good for the storytelling.

Kurt Neiswender: 5:20

So some water, a little, only a tiny little bag of Guatemalan coffee. So, so how about you?

Jamie: 5:26

So I got I've had. I've talked about them before one of Austin's coffee purveyors the Cuvée coffee and it's the Stella Camita which I was like, what is this Italian, you know, blend? And it's, it's their, it was an espresso blend. So that kind of drew me in. I was like, I need a little richer, you know, and and I was like, but I don't know Like I knew it was Italian, but I didn't know. I mean, I don't speak Italian, you know? And so it's basically translates roughly to North star or guiding light. So I was like, ah, kind of perfect

Kurt Neiswender: 6:05

for the new year or the new year. No less start to start the new year off, right? Yeah. Some good black

Jamie: 6:11

coffee.

Kurt Neiswender: 6:13

Yeah. I've had, or whiskey neat, you know? I mean, either one. Yeah. It might be some of that later. Later. Yeah. New year's Eve. So yeah, I don't know. We have a couple of sketches to kind of talk about today. And then we always, well, I don't want to say always, but we have now created a recurring theme, which is our resolutions theme. And I actually went back and looked at. My pick from last year. I was

Jamie: 6:47

going to ask you if like, cause I thought this might be, I know you've had kind of a rough and not rough, but like busy end to the semester and then had some travel on top of it. So, you know, I knew that your headspace was already full. So I wasn't sure if you would have time or, you know, the recollection skills to remember what your word was for this year. And so. The fact that you will say, I checked for, I checked for you. I'm that kind of friend.

Kurt Neiswender: 7:18

Make it sure we keep each other on these, on the toes.

Jamie: 7:21

Yeah. So, so how do you feel about your being patient this year?

Kurt Neiswender: 7:29

Well, you know, if I were to, if I were to, well, that was a good segue grade myself, I would say that I, I think, you know, probably started off good. And then I think there were moments where, well, I don't know, it depends. Yeah. Maybe I was protecting my time a little bit by, but then creating a bottleneck times, right? So there's a lot of learning you do when you build your own business and then also have to get in and teach on top of that, and then run a top 20 podcasts on top of that.

Jamie: 8:12

That's right. That's in a syllabus, no less.

Kurt Neiswender: 8:14

That we've made it to the syllabus at UD Mercy. And, and well, yeah, I guess, I guess that gives me the, the credit that I could put it in my, Yeah, thanks, Dan. I'm going to put in my syllabus too, all my syllabi. You should. I just wanted to use the plural. So, so I don't, you know, I think I suppose what, you know, what we talked about last year was about exercising a little patience, but probably, I think I succeeded in, in, in a lot of ways. And then also, you know, probably, probably, yeah. Got a little tied up, you know, from time to time, which didn't necessarily make me impatient, but then also put me in somewhat of a arrears or a little others

Jamie: 9:08

have to be patient with you.

Kurt Neiswender: 9:11

Right. I should have asked for some patients more. That's it. So metal. What about metal? M E T T L E.

Jamie: 9:21

I know, I know. It's metal,

Kurt Neiswender: 9:22

not heavy metal. I know. M E T A L. Metal.

Jamie: 9:27

And,

Kurt Neiswender: 9:27

and, I

Jamie: 9:29

mean, after all of my spelling foibles yeah, it's definitely went for the interesting vocab word, but no, I, I think that I think I did pretty well, actually. I, it was, I think when I chose it and, you know, this time of year is always tough. It's tough for a lot of people. You know, and I think that, you know, when you're. You know, of the type of personality where you do sort of self assess as both of us are prone to do this time of year is always sort of tricky that way. Cause you can be self critical. I mean, being your own worst critic is probably something both of us, you know, we'll definitely be like, yes, that's me. But I think that in, in sort of choosing metal, it was sort of a recognition that there had to be a little bit of recognition that I needed to find ways to cope with difficulties and kind of forge paths through that and trust myself that I could, I mean, I, I, it's not that I didn't, but it's just that kind of putting it out there ahead of me kind of like that guiding light of the coffee that we're just sort of, you know, which is actually quite good yeah, I, I think that that was important cause I knew that it was going to be another tough year and You know, with, you know, a variety of things, and, you know, some of which is, you know, the challenges of disappointments, and then what do you, you know, what do you do next? You know, what do you, what do you decide to do next? You know, for you, you know, it's sort of like you're saying about the introspection. Of, of, you know, giving yourself the grace or the, the, the extra time or, you know, you know, asking for others to be patient, you know, all of those things that's, you know I think all good things for all of us to be considering at times, but I kind of wanted to put it out there for myself because I knew that there was a lot of challenges ahead and some disappointments that were already kind of in the present. And I think for, for the most part. I'm, I'm pretty proud of myself for, and I, I can't say that I've gotten to the end of the year feeling that way in, in a little while. So you know, that's, that's a good feeling, you know, even if, you know, all days aren't great. But but yeah, I, I think I found the right word is, you know and I think both of us, you know, if we kind of do the reflection of this episode that we've done this. Sort of talking through the words and, and then recapping, I think both of us have done pretty well, you know, about figuring out the path for the year and then, you know, generally staying the course. Also having a person to check in on that with is sort of helpful. So here's to more conversations over coffee.

Kurt Neiswender: 12:17

Yeah, thanks. And likewise, the one sec, got a, got a ceremonial sip. The, I was gonna say you know, the year flew by honestly. So maybe that, maybe that's why I didn't have to exercise too much patience because it went by so quickly. So did you think of a new word?

Jamie: 12:43

I did

Kurt Neiswender: 12:44

new year.

Jamie: 12:45

I did. What and did you, did you get, did you,

Kurt Neiswender: 12:48

I've got a word. I might have to, I don't, you know, I'll have a, A, like a, I have a, I've got a word. You got a word. Okay. I got a word. Okay.

Jamie: 13:01

So, so that's not the word.

Kurt Neiswender: 13:03

No.

Jamie: 13:09

So I, I would, you know, well, before, before we talk about the words sort of in the stills, the state of the recap and reflection how did, how did the semester end with the students? How did, how did that go? How did the teaching with. our podcast friend.

Kurt Neiswender: 13:25

Oh, that, well, okay. So

Jamie: 13:28

how did all that, how did all the, I mean, so teaching, teaching spill the tea, but just sort of, you know, tell me, well,

Kurt Neiswender: 13:34

Having Cormac involved in, in what we call ID five integrated design five, which is the fall semester studio for, for seniors or fourth year students. So it's penultimate to the capstone class. And you, you've been on crits for the capstone class, which are, are pretty intense amount of work. So this is like trying to get them. I'll tie it all together, all the years in studio and like warm up to, to, to the last semester. It's all based in a hundred percent in group format. So they're in teams the whole semester. Which in and

Jamie: 14:14

of itself is a challenge.

Kurt Neiswender: 14:15

Yeah. There, there, the dynamics of teams. Well, we did notice at the end of everything that, you know, the teams that could find a way to communicate best, you know, as best they can with each other generally, well, not generally. easily succeeded in crafting a better project together and getting, you know, and, and building that rapport or culture. There was, you know, there's some fun teams to would talk to them and they they're just ribbing each other and kind of tease, you know, as they were trying to work on files and sharing things. And it was, it was a lot of fun to stop at their desk and, and see just sit with them and. Especially as you know, once you hit a certain point in the semester, as you know, you kind of the it's like the training wheels. Not I don't want any students to get this the wrong way, but you kind of like, have to let go and the team or the student takes off. Like, if you took the wheels off the bicycle, the training goes off the bike, they got to just got to go and you're there to kind of help just a little bit. And so it's not like guardrails, you're like guardrails, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's more adult. So anyway, so then you, you just kind of stop in with the teams. And so then, and so we had a roped Cormac from Archespeak into teaching with me as adjunct for the studio. And, and he had a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun having them there. And I think the students definitely benefited from his, his experience. His insight, his perspective and and his, the, the project types that he gets to work on, which are very different than mine. You know, he, he gets to work on some pretty high, how do we put it? Bigger budgets, but with maybe a higher profile, like, you know, either ownership. Or even like for, for some, he's working with Renzo piano studio. So it's always interesting to hear his, his opinions on, on how that's going.

Jamie: 16:31

Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, the thing about, I think. Cormac's career and sort of where he is and, and his perspective, you know, at a, at a, effectively a larger firm. But, but one that he himself is an integral part of multiple parts of that process. And then, and has the wherewithal to, you know, the parts that he's not a part of to also be cognizant of and to be able to speak to and, and then speak to, to your audience, to the studio, you know you know, of students so that they're getting, you know, the, the benefit of his perspective about where he is in practice and, and like you said, the type of work that he's doing, but also sort of his, both his own critique of it and opinion of it, but then also what his, you know, Kind of experience has been in doing it. And that sort of that thought process and then, you know, flipping it so that. In that sort of vein of talking about his own experience, he's bringing that to the classroom and talking about their teamwork. I could imagine would be, you know, pretty, pretty beneficial, especially in that semester in that case, because I mean, you guys had a, you know, you had a. you know, adaptive reuse project, which I thought, you know, I was excited to hear about you know, it's, we've talked about that quite a bit of late that very few programs are inserting that into the curriculum. And when, you know, now there's definitely a trend of those things happening. I just saw an article even dwell magazine like posted this week, they did a big, you know, essay about you know, the resurgence. Or the emergence, you know, it's having a renaissance this focus on preservation and architecture. you know, this year was the year of that. And it's like, well, good, you know, finally. But I, I know that that sort of level of complexity of project with someone like him in the studio, as well as your own practice and the way that you sort of, you know, work I think have probably benefited the students even more than they realize.

Kurt Neiswender: 18:48

Well, I hope so. Now we'll make a, we'll make a deal, right? If, if I can get Cormac hired back, then I don't get to be called Coffee Boy anymore. Yeah, that's in that, that's

Jamie: 19:05

in that, that's a contract. Oh yeah, we talked about that. The syllabus contract. Yeah, contract. You know.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:13

These are the stipulations.

Jamie: 19:15

Stipulations in that syllabus contract. You're to

Kurt Neiswender: 19:17

not refer to me as Coffee Boy. Other faculty will not be referring to you. Employment contingent solely on, on that caveat.

Jamie: 19:27

No

Kurt Neiswender: 19:28

boom boxes over your head. It's a, what they call a a deal breaker. Okay.

Jamie: 19:34

It,

Kurt Neiswender: 19:34

that sounds,

Jamie: 19:35

it sounds like a technical term to me.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:38

So yeah, so, and you know, we'll roll out you know, the grades are freshly minted and so I'll roll out a couple of examples from the projects, you know, in the next couple of episodes, we'll. Pick a day, you know, pick one to kind of talk a little bit to kind of unpack the adaptive reuse a little bit and see how that, you know, shook out.

Jamie: 20:04

Well, I mean, because I, I had the experience, you know, I sat in on a there's my shaky, shaky dog. But yeah, no, I had a similar experience sitting in a file review here recently. at my alma mater. And it was also an adaptive reuse project. It was a graduate level, but it was like, you know, fall semester. So it's the first year studio for grad students. So this is you know, depending on how they've, they've matriculated up into the program, you know, whether they're career change students coming with an undergraduate degree in something else and have leveled up, you know, over the summer or, you know, through some prior coursework. Or, you know, coming in from, you know, homegrown. So they've gone through four years of an undergrad and now are moving into grad program at A& M or coming from another university, you know, in a similar fashion, four years, you know, and into it. So this is, it probably didn't have the same level of intensity that, that yours had per se. Because, you know, as a, a first semester grad studio there's still sort of a little bit of feeling out about. You know, faculty relationship to the program, you know, how that studio environment works, you know, your

Kurt Neiswender: 21:20

technique, a little

Jamie: 21:21

technique. Yeah. Cause, cause they're also not at that, they're not at this point even thinking about what their thesis project is or who their committee is. And they're still, you know, very, very relatively early in the program but you know, not inexperienced. And it was. Telling to me was because of my familiarity with the program as well and because you and I've been talking about it, I asked them, I said, you know, is, you know, how many of you show hands? This was sort of halfway through the jury because the jury went very well. Projects were great. Students are great. Other faculty I got to meet were, were, were excellent. Didn't know. I knew some of them didn't know all of them. But. You know, kind of did a show of hands as we were sort of swapping people in and out. You know, as students were putting their stuff up on the wall and, and getting their laptops all set up. But you know, kind of show of hands, Hey, how many of you, this is the first adaptive reuse project you've ever worked on? You know, the first time that you've worked with an existing building as you're, you know, Design prompt, you know, not talking about context, but the actual, an actual building itself and having to make some, some decisions about what that is. And to a person, every single one of them, This was their first studio project that had that situation. Two of the students said that in practice, they, you know, they had worked for firms and had worked on existing buildings you know, in, in their, you know, professional practice. But yeah, I, I, and I think that that's telling. I think it's, it's something that, you know, needs to continue to be a focus. Because it is a different starting point, obviously. But at the same time, there's a lot to be learned through the experience and the dialogue With an existing building and with your classmates as well as other faculty and sort of thinking through that decision making you know,

Kurt Neiswender: 23:24

I think is, yeah, hold to hold those thoughts because it'll be, I will, it will be real interesting to, uh, show you the final. So with teams, there were 16, so there's 6 projects, unique designs. And yeah, my, there's very interesting takes on consideration of what is adaptive reuse and the nuance of existing building, which, so that's what we'll see. We, I want to compare it since you went through that with the A& M thing, if you can

Jamie: 24:02

do like a, like a high level contrast. Yeah,

Kurt Neiswender: 24:06

that yeah, just the, the we can, I'm sure we'll at least talk about the. the student's perspective or, or approach approaches. Because us, I think, you know, as practitioners I think we would have done some very different designs, but I'm not laughing. It's mostly just, it's mostly in, in fun of cause you know, a top, the probably topmost caveat is the fact that we didn't, I didn't give them a budget, right? There's no constraints on finance, right? So therefore, you know, we kind of let them. shoot, shoot for the, the moon a little bit. So anyway, I don't want to, you know,

Jamie: 24:49

well, but I mean, that's, and that's, that's the, you know, that's a, just a sort of, I think a reality of a lot of design work, you know, is, you know, in that syllabus, in that project prompt, you know, sometimes that's not included. I think the thing that was evident in the work that I saw and something that I've in a couple of juries, I've sort of inserted it in the conversation with certain particular students Because you can tell by the way that they're presenting the material that they've thought about it, you know, they maybe, they maybe haven't made a, maybe they haven't made a decision about where their position is on their particular project that they're, you know, they're being really, you know, elaborate with their expenses or some of their decision making that they could have reigned some pieces in, could have faced something, you know, all those, you know, all that sort of jargony talk, but you can tell when somebody is telling you the story, you know, And they're talking about it that there's aspects of it that are important to them that they've stumbled across in their precedent research or just design thinking about their project and they haven't come to a resolution. And so oftentimes what I'll do as a, as a critic is I'll sort of encourage them to think about it. You know, to, to kind of put that question back into their, their mind now that, now that they've done the project and say, okay, what was my attitude towards the budget or this particular client type in the, in, in the ANM's case, there was, they were talking about housing. And so they were doing adaptive reuse with housing. And I think in the, the conversation that came up in a couple projects, not all of them. Was that the aspect of how do you say, like who the population is, who's going to inhabit this also starts to talk about dollars and cents. And, you know, that, you know, we talk about a missing middle, we talk about mixed use, we talk about mixed population and different socioeconomic classes and all these things. And, and this is something that architects have, you know, I've tried to figure out for projects for, right. But what's, what's your particular stance on this relative to the project prompt that you're dealing with, you know, and, and how has that affected your decisions? And I think that, you know, that's not being judgmental about, you know, what you, you know, what your take is. It's that, okay, if I'm dealing with, you know, some affordable housing solutions, but I'm making a project that isn't going to, isn't going to pencil in terms of dollars and cents, without Other kinds of subsidies and things like that. Am I, am I even being realistic with my design decisions or, or, or vice versa? I am trying to do a high end project because these are all going to be condo units and we're going to be selling these and the, you know, that market share of that type of person who's going to inhabit that space has certain things that they're going to need or want. And so that floor plan that you drew Is looks like your apartment that you're renting right now, you know, and so it's like, you know, how do you, how do you start to justify kind of those design decisions relative to these kind of other, other concepts? And, and I think that that it's not just about skinning a building, which is, I think a lot of design design reviews that you probably sit in on and things like that is, you know, it's a lot of skinning the building and sort of like, ah, it's a, the floor plan sort of works, you know yeah. And, and I think that there's more to it than that. And grappling with these big, bigger ideas and figuring out how you fit into that. This is the time that this is the test bed for all that for students.

Kurt Neiswender: 29:09

Yeah, so yeah, that there's but I look

Jamie: 29:12

forward to

Kurt Neiswender: 29:12

it. I think we, I want to do it in a separate episode just because can get some visuals together and then kind of kick around a couple of different yeah, those perspectives. Yeah. And then it costs, we can, we can kind of talk about, but yeah, so yeah, so that was the semester. It was, yeah, this, you know, fall semesters always seems like, well, it's not always. It really is like the halfway point for the school year. However, it is the end of the calendar year where there's these sort of beginnings and endings, you know, or midpoints kind of overlapping. So it's, it's a chance for me to at least recharge and then we can dive back in. So when I go back in the spring, it'll be the acoustics, electrical systems as a lecture and a second year studio, which is a lot which is. This is a bit interior design. It's not really interior design, but it is kind of understanding massing form what do you call it? Volume shifts and things like that. So, and also your,

Jamie: 30:26

and your, and your spring semester comp design.

Kurt Neiswender: 30:30

Well, I'm not going to be teaching in that, but I'll be checking in. You

Jamie: 30:34

know, the

Kurt Neiswender: 30:35

work and yeah, I might get pulled in for a crit or two. Yeah, I can't, that's the, that's too much, too many classes.

Jamie: 30:44

I was going to say that, that seems like a lot. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 30:46

yeah, so just the two, but I'll, you know, I like to check in and comp with the, the students that, you know, take off from, from this ID five and then go to comp design, which is the capstone. And see, cause then they have to do everything they did in, in the fall as a team, they have to do it. On their own in the spring plus more. So it's even higher, like the bar is even higher. So, so anywho, so maybe

Jamie: 31:14

I can, maybe I can join you and see what that all looks like. So I think,

Kurt Neiswender: 31:17

you know, I think, you know, we, yeah, we did, I did kind of wait too long to get you in for the winter, but I think we you know, Cormac and I were kicking it around and I think we'll try and see what we can cobble together in the spring for you. And. We'll start earlier and see if we can get the super studio. There you

Jamie: 31:43

go.

Kurt Neiswender: 31:43

That's it. The super jury as I want to be Peter Eisenman and I want you to be Steven Hall and then we're going to start arguing with each other.

Jamie: 31:52

Okay. Okay. So who, so who is like, is Cormac like Hayduk or what? Or is that Evan?

Kurt Neiswender: 32:00

I, I don't know. I'd probably say that he's, it would be Evan Hayduk. And then You know, Cormac, because of his rural studio background is

Jamie: 32:10

going to channel his Sam. He

Kurt Neiswender: 32:12

is a little more, I don't want to say grounded, but he is great at the concept and then anchoring back into some reality practicality and going back and forth. It's really cool. You know, I think that that experience, you know, is, is enviable that the, the program down at Auburn in the rural studio and their structure. So anyway, I always, I always looked up to that sort of format. So, yeah,

Jamie: 32:46

no, I think it, it definitely was a, a testament to you know, both the faculty, but also I think the students who were part of it. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 32:53

and now I have to I have to write some, I've been asked by some students to write letters of recommendation. So,

Jamie: 33:01

yep, that's definitely this time of year. I know that feeling. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 33:04

so now there's that. So then, you know, we might as well move through this podcast so I can get, Oh, okay. Okay. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Does everyone

Jamie: 33:14

see how I get rushed? They don't get. Like, like, like, as the patient was

Kurt Neiswender: 33:18

last year's word, that was last year and

Jamie: 33:21

like the podcast is like about like 7th on a list of six. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 33:25

you know, the students, students come first, right? Only if they listen to the podcast. Okay,

Jamie: 33:34

so you see what I'm

Kurt Neiswender: 33:35

dropping, dropping these knowledge bombs all over the

Jamie: 33:37

place. With all that silliness I see where this is headed. So let's cut to the chase. What's the word for 2025?

Kurt Neiswender: 33:45

So I asked you first, do you want me to go first?

Jamie: 33:47

Well, I want you to go first.

Kurt Neiswender: 33:48

Oh, I see. All right. All right. You're going to pray. You're going to pray. Tease me. That's just fine. I pray deserve it, but I, I, I'm going to pick, cause I really want to kind of unpack this throughout the year, but it's either going to be agent or agency is the word. And I'll, I'll tell you where this is. This is my

Jamie: 34:18

surprised face. It's my surprised face. Yeah. Yeah. I

Kurt Neiswender: 34:21

think you were, that's where you're going to tease me. So it is stemming from some of this AI work that I've been exploring in, in, in the university. in practice too. And in 2025, like my glasses are telling us AI agents are going to be the next big thing. And with the glasses,

Jamie: 34:55

I was going to say, are you like agent Smith? Like you're going to start wearing a lot of black and

Kurt Neiswender: 35:02

yeah, I know that's, that's reservoir dog style. That's the yeah, that's the dress code for, for So anyway, it's more about, it's more, so, so that's the idea. It's like, so what does it actually mean, right? Agent agency, and then is, you know, what are the definition of that relative to AI, but then what does it mean to person or a person like me, you know, as a business owner, a professional and then, you know, what, as, so how do I implement that or. Build a sense of agency of my own, which is kind of tied to, you know, this podcast is a component of thought leadership.

Jamie: 35:47

Absolutely.

Kurt Neiswender: 35:48

Teaching is thought leadership. sharing that information in practice, right? Is, is sort of you know, and, and AI as a extension of practice thought leadership, right? Sharing you know, or disseminating the knowledge in that in the professional world. Cause I think that's part of a sense of agency, but is, is AI agent that is, is, is it totally related or unrelated to, To that sort of right. So like the book I recently read, which I kind of, I think we talked about, right? The AI co intelligence, right? Is that you, the human is, is the, the thought leader, the subject matter expert and AI is the sort of at the table, but not running the meeting. Right? It's still the human. Right? So then. Anyway, so that's kind of what I'm, where I'm going with it is like, you know, so how does that then make me in 2025 a more capable architect podcast? So cohost, are you trying

Jamie: 37:09

to, are you, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to try to find the guardrails for you so that I can be kind of conscious of it as we're talking and you know, online and offline kind of about your goals. So are you, am I hearing you say that you, you want to be a little bit more, I'm going to insert the word proactive because I can't think of a better vocab word right now, but sort of proactive about your role in the things that you're pursuing. But from a, from a standpoint that you're also sort of conscious of how those things that you're pursuing also relate to this bigger picture of your bigger goals. so much.

Kurt Neiswender: 38:02

Yeah.

Jamie: 38:02

And that, and that, and that you're, it's almost like being proactive. It doesn't kind of completely cover it, but it's, is it. There's like a deliberately deliberateness. Mm-hmm. Deliberate deliberateness.

Kurt Neiswender: 38:16

Mm-hmm Yeah. Yeah. That's the word. kind of, yeah. Intentional, I suppose, could be a another way to say that. Deliberate. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie: 38:28

Intentional. Yeah. Okay. I proactive

Kurt Neiswender: 38:30

or an active participant, but yeah, I think it's examining like these, these three branches, right? Let's say, you know, teaching podcast. business, not in any order, but these sort of three veins and then. You know, I think combined, right, is the agency, or the sense of agency. That's what I'm trying to discover.

Jamie: 38:56

Yeah, well, I think it's interesting, because it's like, oftentimes when I've heard folks bring up the word, or sort of the terminology, they're usually talking about it in a way that they're trying to bring, Agency to others, right? Right. And, and I think, and, and, and I'm just saying like, that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. That just, that just means that it's interesting to me that you're, you're sort of taking it, saying, taking ownership of it in a sense and saying, you know, as much as I can do things for other people in the things that I would do on X, Y, Z subject, if X, Y, Z subject goal is one that I have, how can I sort of, you know, You know, run parallel to my own and, and, and find agency for myself in those situations that I'm putting myself in. I think that's, that's, that's, that's kind of an interesting idea. I think it's, it's a great way to it's almost like strategery, you know? But I, but I like your word better. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 40:03

yeah. Well, cause mine, mine's not made up,

Jamie: 40:05

right?

Kurt Neiswender: 40:07

No made up words. Strategery. Yeah. No, I think that, I think you're picking up on where, what I was talking about. Yeah, they were trying to head with this thing. So, so we'll, we'll check in on that. Cause it's, it's definitely something in front of mine. So, so what about you? What did you settle on?

Jamie: 40:26

Well,

Kurt Neiswender: 40:27

I, I did

Jamie: 40:27

settle on

Kurt Neiswender: 40:28

metal.

Jamie: 40:29

Kind of, I mean, it's, it's sort of like if metal was the word that was last year and I felt like I had definitely made some progress. I also learned some things. You know, which is always metal, part of it was the spelling. Yeah. But I think it was and also sort of accepting some stuff too. And one of the things that, you know, I've told you before and sort of, you know, not necessarily on this podcast, but is like with metal and as sort of an idea and trying to, you know, push through things or, or feel like I could push through things or whatever And then doing it, and then, you know, and then pushing through things, even through disappointments or something like that, finding another pathway forward, or accepting, you know, yeah, that wasn't going to work, or that wasn't, that was just, that wasn't meant to be, or whatever. And that's okay. I think one of the other things I've, I've kind of come to accept, which is sort of my, my, you know, hopefully comes across the right way, is that I've also sort of accepted my brokenness. And. For in a lot of ways, in a lot of parts of myself and my life and but not in a, not in a, like a pity party kind of brokenness more of a, that there's, there's a brokenness, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that the passion and the pursuit. And the metal aren't still applicable. And so what I've sort of leaned into as sort of a, a word for this year is Kintsugi.

Kurt Neiswender: 42:11

I literally was Googling the Japanese art. You mentioned brokenness and that's where I was heading. Cause I think I understand what you're saying, but in, within that, there's a, a beauty in, in those pieces. Yeah. And it's, and you know, knit together or being held together.

Jamie: 42:34

Yeah. And I think that that's, that's sort of, I think that's where I find myself and, and I, I feel like that's what a lot of this year is going to be for me. And. And I'm excited about it. It isn't something that's like I said, it's not a pity party. This is just, it's, there's a level of uncertainty with it, but also recognition. And I mean, and, you know, disappointment and, you know, things that, you know, are broken you know, some by my own control. But then figuring out how to knit those things together I think everybody does that anyways, but you know, for me, you know, that term and that wor that worldview of, there's beauty in the brokenness too. And in the process it's a very, it's a very process driven kind of word, which is, you know, something that you and I both, you know, always sort of lean back into. So yeah, I, I, I think that that's where I'm gonna be headed this year.

Kurt Neiswender: 43:35

So I was just grabbing, I was trying to do this on the fly. Yeah. I like that. Beautiful. The process part of it too. Oops. Let's hide that so we can see it. You know, the process part. So for those that don't know Kintsugi, I love Jamie picks the tough tongue twister, spelling challenge, be spelling B words. Is this art of mending pottery with gold, particularly like as the, you know, to fill the cracks to put two pieces together, but it's filled with gold, which is symbolic of the, the, to, to memorialize the, the, the scar or the, the, the broken or the damage in the process. But so it's not like, oops, you know, let's duct tape it together, but let's like, Sort of honor that little ripped rip or seam or you know tear so there's a picture in you know maybe we'll use this this would be probably a good one for the Headline or the show show notes and thumbnail. That's the dumb word So anyway that you know It will be cool. And you know, you know what would be cool because it's such a visual thing can be. Well, let's say traditional Japanese Kintsugi is a physical object, but maybe for you, could you translate some of those repairs in sketch form as you discover something?

Jamie: 45:22

I, I think, I think it's.

Kurt Neiswender: 45:24

We talked a lot about sort of self reflection in this, in, in looking at last year's word and now looking at next year's word. And I mean, we kind of talk about it a lot over the past seven years, but yeah, I don't look as I don't challenge per se, like to make it hard on you, but. It could be something that manifests through the arts that you can generate, right?

Jamie: 45:51

I think it will. I, I, I, I, I take that more as a hope in you manifesting it that way and sort of suggesting that path. Because I think that that's something that you know, we're the sum of our parts, right? And you know, in this it's, it's the sum of our parts, but it's also, you get to play with it a little bit too. You know, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a insertion of creativity and and deliberateness you know, and hope that you're, you're trying to find something better, you know, and beautiful. You know, beautiful in, in the, not to say the mistakes, but you know, beautiful in, in the in the brokenness of some things. So you know, I, yeah, I, I, I am hopeful that it manifests itself in my art and my architecture and my sketches and that we can share some of it on the show. I think that's if it doesn't come out in my art and my work, then there's there's something else going on. So

Kurt Neiswender: 46:53

it'll be a t shirt. Yeah. Just kidding. Yeah, cool. These, the, this is interesting, Pat. I didn't really expect this. I, I guess I, I probably, if I re listen to every single resolution episode, I probably say the same thing that I'm about to say, which is I never really expect the depth of the conversation. I think it's always one of the deeper ones we have annually. Or throughout the series, you know, set of episodes. Oh, absolutely. 165 previous episodes. And so it's always a fun one. And and now I'm really, I actually look, I like my word better than I want. I'm going to say it was better than last year. Although there's no ranks per se, but I think there's some real growth happening. I guess that's, that's the way to put it. So. Oh, and you know what I noticed here? I can update this to, say, up here in the corner, 25. Oh, fancy, fancy. In case you were looking, yeah. But you can't really see it because of the QR. I

Jamie: 48:16

can't see it because of the

Kurt Neiswender: 48:17

QR.

Jamie: 48:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I think, I think, you know, I, I would, I would tend to agree with you that, you know, it's, I think this is one of my favorite episodes every year, just from the standpoint that we, you know, we have that reflection it is a little bit heavy or heavy. Both probably. But I think it's one, you know, that's, you know, for those who, you know, maybe you're finding the podcast or something like that too, if they, they sort of stumble into this episode you know, whether it's this year or last year it gives them a sense of. You know, each year is going to be, you know, yes, we are still talking about sketches that you cannot see unless you're watching the video. And we are drinking coffee and talking about our daily lives and all the good stuff, you know, surrounded that. But I think that there is some purpose to the work that we do and the things that we're doing. Reflecting on for ourselves and the people that we bring into the podcast to have conversations with them about them, you know, their trajectories too. So yeah, I, I, I always enjoy this one every year. We've got a, like, like Kurt said, I think a couple episodes back, we've got a few things that we do, you know, every year, you know, and they're sort of sprinkled nicely throughout the year. that we always sort of find as topics. And we sort of check in on, and this is, this is one of the ones that we do to close one season and start the next.

Kurt Neiswender: 49:41

Yeah. And and it, you know, other things that go, the process, right. That we talked about is I set up the new folder in my drive, 2025 season seven, right. And then episode one 60, I'm going to get lost. This is one 66. Six. And then we have a one 67. Technically we already recorded that one,

Jamie: 50:07

but we're slipping it in, but

Kurt Neiswender: 50:09

it's like a Christmas bonus, you know, it's better than the jelly of the month club that Clark Griswold got in a Lampoon's Christmas. So I didn't leave enough airtime for that one. Okay. We have, so the sketches that we were, so I didn't, did, I mean, I think we're, you know, we've, we've got some powerful words And now I think to wrap up talking about the sketches that have occurred in the most recent few days Been kind of fine. I want to say that you know So Jamie's done a few with some our old comic book friends and I showed him a picture of a puzzle I built with my nephew and niece in California of spider man and with a bunch of Dr. Octopus and Rhino and Vulture and some of the, you know, some of the good guys and the bad guys. Venom and and then all of a sudden a bunch of superhero sketches started coming up and you're, you know, you're Spider Man, which we didn't put in here, but maybe we'll grab it for another day. As always, you know, Spider Man always had the best poses. The sort of contorted flying poses, which I think are, are always great, but this one, I think Jamie wanted to use cause it's Batman, which it's a good Batman. Well, they're all good Batman sketches, but this one's got the, you know, is this more of a,

Jamie: 51:58

It feels like it physically, physically kind of a little bit, you know,

Kurt Neiswender: 52:03

yeah. And the, the bat symbol. And actually I was just talking to one of my neighbors and he, he got for himself a self Christmas gift of the Adam West version Batmobile in Lego. Classic. Classic. Classic. Classic. Classic. Classic. I'll try and get a photo of that when he's done. So tell us. And then we, on the right, we also, we have two sketches that Jamie wants to squeeze in here. And so the unrelated, well, in, in the sense that the other one is not Batman. So I, I don't need, I know nothing about it except for it's in living color. I know. Jimmy used some water color, punch it up. So. Why don't you catch us up on Yeah,

Jamie: 52:55

so the, the one in color was, so I finished a book, I finished a sketchbook and had to, had to crispen a new sketchbook, which is always tricky. We talked about it before. This is for students, artists, architects. Anybody who loves to sketch and draw, we all have the same lament is that opening that book, that pristine book for the first, you know, hitting that first page blank page, that blank page, you know, and so what did I do? I like skip the first page cause I just couldn't do it opened up. I

Kurt Neiswender: 53:33

did that a lot too.

Jamie: 53:35

Yeah. So that's the back of the first page. And the second page, the third page,

Kurt Neiswender: 53:41

well, depending on how you read the,

Jamie: 53:44

how you want to, how you want to number those pages, you know, those in design people will, you know, they'll cringe, but no, so it's, it's a, ends up being a full page spread, but it you know, I was also sort of thinking about, you know, do I do sort of a 12 days of you know, something. Kind of thing, you know, 12 days of Christmas, but sort of riff on that. So this was sort of 12 days of inspiration, and the first one for me was I think the idea of pop culture and its influences on me as an artist and an architect are just ever present. And the thing that I didn't realize, I didn't know I was going to do these, you know, and this is the thing with a lot of these sketches, it's sort of, it's daily, you know, so I don't necessarily know. I've got some ideas in my head. But I don't sort of plan these things out necessarily. But I saw the movie Conclave. Highly recommend. Highly, highly, highly recommend. And a friend even joked that it's one of those movies where like, if, if you're sort of of the type where you like the movies, where they whisper a lot. You know, very, very serious stuff. It's in that vein. So I agree. But it's very, very good. Stellar, stellar cast plot twists very serious, very moody kind of cinematography, but also, you know, you're in Vatican city, right? So it's, you, you've got that sort of architecture that sort of stands out. And so. That's what I wanted to capture here was sort of that idea of watching film and how that has an influence on me. It sort of captured in the book as that first page. Spend a little more time with it, obviously, because you're seeing it in color and play with the watercolors, the very, very tiny watercolors. Got to be portable, got to be nimble. And, you know, I, I was pretty, you know, haven't touched watercolors in a while. We'll touch them every once in a while. And, but I can say that it confidently that it's been several months. So, was happy with digging into it, even with that reluctance of the first page. To, to, to challenge myself with and then capture, capture a space and, and and a thought. Of inspiration. So this is one of those early scenes in the film where you're sort of seeing the, you know, everybody kind of arriving into the space and sort of you know, and the space isn't necessarily important, you know, and, you know, the whole arrival isn't necessarily important to you know, me, you know, you know, messing up the movie for those who haven't seen it, but I think it's scale perspective vantage point, you know, it feels very cinematic. All and you know, and at the same time also sort of a very, you know, comic book where you're talking about sequential art and you're talking about sort of staging a scene and thinking about what that shot's going to be or as an architect, if you're trying to tell the story, you know, what, what shots are we trying to get to, you know, to kind of, you know, convince people of a particular idea that we're, we're trying

Kurt Neiswender: 56:49

Well, the, you know, so I, I actually did hear on public radio, a review of the movie. So I am intrigued. I'm not necessarily one to get very caught up in the papal, the papacy. And I do remember when they elected, well, I guess the past 2 posts have been relatively recent recent years. So it, it, you know, the news definitely covers it and you get, you know, sometimes you get. Caught up in the drama of waiting for the puff of smoke and, and all that stuff. But Oh, I I'll be interested to see, see the movie. You know, part of the critics review was that like, well, nobody knows what actually goes on in there unless you're a Cardinal. So they have to do a lot of, you know, sort of inferring of what the, you know, the, the activities are like and then based on whatever public information they're allowed to share. But it is kind of an interesting, it's a good one for and then I think generally though, from the art form perspective of, you know, filling the blank page. Challenging yourself with another media that you hadn't touched in a while might, you know, just made that push a little bit I mean, maybe you feel a little tougher at first, but I think the results are a really nice Sketch it's it's it's hard to even the the the very like the watercolor method at least if I can't really zoom in too far, but It's a very light handed, I'd say, water color, like it's not heavy wash, you know, drown the pages in, in the, in the ink or the, the watercolor, but just sort of accenting.

Jamie: 58:41

Well, and the secret to this one too is that what I wanted to try because I'd seen a friend post something recently. He had gone and done some, some live figure drawing and had started using water soluble graphite. And I forgot. I was like, Oh yeah. Like I love that stuff. And so and I have it. I mean, it's like, you know, this is the whole thing. Like I joke about, like, I have my favorite pen. It's super cheap, all that stuff, but I've got all the other fun stuff to play with. And so I was like, Oh yeah, I got some water soluble graphite. I, you know and so I was like, well, I'm going to, I'm going to pencil this sketch and sort of do the shade and shadow in sort of some graphite techniques, some pencil sketch techniques to start and then, and then play with that with water. And then come back in with watercolor over the top of it because I've not tried that in a long time. And so it was an easier way for me to access it. And there was sort of a reasoning behind it. And then I went back in with some, some pen over the top of that and did some of my, my pen over technique. I have no patience sometimes. So sometimes I do it while the page is still wet, which is, you know, you get, you get what you get. Patience. That

Kurt Neiswender: 1:00:00

was my word. So. Right. Okay.

Jamie: 1:00:02

Right.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:00:02

But. So is that why the, is that why the darks, the blacks are, there's a couple that

Jamie: 1:00:06

got super dark. Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:00:08

The, the graphite pencil. In creating shadow also then. So you have a little extra material. A

Jamie: 1:00:16

little extra, a little, yeah, a little extra material in there. And what it does is it, it when you're, when you use a light hand with the graphite and even do, I mean, you can do a full launch, you know hatch in one direction, sort of a, not a cross hatch, but sort of a diagonal hatch you know, side of side of graphite to give it a tone. When you come back in with the brush and the water, what it does is it eliminates the pencil stroke. So it just sort of keeps, but it keeps that sort of same tone. And if you let it dry. Then you can work over the top of it. And so you can sort of add layers of intensity or highlight or something like that. So in that area, kind of the middle of the sketch, I was, I'd gone a little harder with the graphite. And so when I hit the tone, it was, it ended up being darker than I planned. which was okay. I mean, I just sort of worked around it, you know, and kind of, you know, blew up a couple other areas to kind of, to match it. So for the composition, but

Kurt Neiswender: 1:01:18

Yeah, you know, that's a good, actually, that's a good point. So you might've felt a little, if you say, if you're a younger, you maybe a little less experienced, you might've felt like, Oh, I messed it up. Right. Right. Right. You know, and, but then you then intentionally sort of messed up a couple other spots. To then develop and add to the whole. So, as for students, you know, I was going to, I was thinking about how to not give up on a, on a sketch or a scheme or an idea and just keep working it, you know, and yeah, and you'll find sort of a product out of it or a. It's a bad word, product, but no, that is relevant.

Jamie: 1:02:09

No, that's very astute. I mean, and I think that's a, that's a good way to kind of capture it is, is to keep working it. You know, just that phrase alone is what something like this, where I'm using really three different implements to, to come at the image. And, you know, so very mixed media and, you know, at the end of the day as a composition, pretty proud of it. For, especially for a first page of the book kind of situation, which, you know, you kind of grade on a curve. But I think the other one which is several days later is benefits from the momentum of doing that exercise on the first one. Cause it, it set me in a, in a way where I felt extra confident with my pencil sketching ability. And knew how to use two different line weights, actually two different pencils to achieve really, really successful you know, pencil sketch that also sort of evokes action and environment and sequence. And, and I picked up this book you know, during the holidays for myself, this is a gift to myself. But it's a, an art theory, architecture theory book. On comics in the city, you know, talking about urban space and sequential art and sort of the influence of, of different media on, on things. And so having that sort of narrative in my head and then doing this sketch was, I think only comes out of having done a few other ones leading up to this and kind of increasing my confidence with, you know, certain techniques again.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:03:52

Well, that's, yeah, I mean, I think. That's, that's the that's probably the best answer. Or the result out of the, just keep working it. Right? Yeah. And then that you can give the students, and then the result of that is then another iteration, and another, and another, another, yeah. In your case, you're, you're moving through different subjects, but, you know, if we tied it back to school studio, you know, it generates, you know, more ideas on top of that. Right. And keep moving through it, so. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I, I appreciate the, the relaxing break you've had. The, the, the, there's quite a few sketches that we can, we'll bring up over the next few episodes. Especially we can maybe even do a little, little comic book Marvel DC throw down.

Jamie: 1:04:42

Oh, that'd be fun. Like a lightning round. We can, we can set a lightning round. Yeah. Yeah.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:04:47

We could do like a bracket since we're kind of in a college football bracket. Right now, we could say it's

Jamie: 1:04:54

the time of

Kurt Neiswender: 1:04:55

year of Marvel characters, but so, all right, let me pull that off the screen and flash my fancy glasses for one more time. So this is our favorite part, Jamie, the goodbye, the cheers. Cheers. So here's to 2025,

Jamie: 1:05:20

2025. Happy new year.

Kurt Neiswender: 1:05:24

Happy new year. Happy season seven.

Jamie: 1:05:28

That's right.