170 - Architecture, Coffee, and Twin Peaks

Architecture, Coffee, and Twin Peaks: A Conversation on Resilience and Storytelling

In this episode, the hosts reflect on their experiences in architecture, discussing the importance of storytelling in design and the impact of creative influences like David Lynch. Amid technical glitches and a light-hearted coffee review, they explore themes of resilience in architecture, using examples from their own work and experiences. Special homage is paid to David Lynch, creator of Twin Peaks, highlighting his influence on their architectural perspective and storytelling efforts.

00:00 Introduction and Technical Glitches
02:02 Season Seven Milestone
02:49 Coffee Talk: Detroit Lions Blend
05:10 Weather and Superstitions
12:39 Architectural Resilience and Climate Change
13:26 Texas Society of Architects Leadership Retreat
25:53 David Lynch Tribute
32:12 Twin Peaks and Storytelling in Architecture
45:13 Conclusion and Reflections

Transcript

Kurt Neiswender: 0:32

Oh, hey, Jamie. I forgot to turn the music off.

Jamie: 0:36

That's okay. Shouldn't we talk about, like It's off

Kurt Neiswender: 0:40

now.

Jamie: 0:41

Oh, okay. Ooh, wow, it really got quiet.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:44

Yeah. Silence is deafening.

Jamie: 0:46

Is this the way our episodes always are?

Kurt Neiswender: 0:49

No, because we're usually talking.

Jamie: 0:51

Oh, okay. Yeah, usually there's like a banter.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:53

There's enough background noise with our own voices.

Jamie: 0:57

Mm hmm.

Kurt Neiswender: 0:58

So, what were you going to say? No, I just,

Jamie: 1:00

I usually, like, you know, we, we do some banter about, you know, the, the different sound and sound effects that, you know, our streaming platform has available to us. And, you know, and we have also talked about, you know, our, you know, creative or in house creative assets, you know, musical talent and assets available to us. And we've been asking him to do more, maybe, you know, he's aware. So because he is working on it, You know, we want to make sure that we can use it to its fullest potential. So that means that You know that technical glitch that you experienced when you kicked some of his music on And then you couldn't hear me through our

Kurt Neiswender: 1:52

friends. Well, normally we don't name names No, don't name names just say but our host of the live stream has a problem with my uploaded Personal music from our music director, cold fashioned as in once we play that music, our own voices are not audible, but we play the generic music from our live stream host and our voices are fine problem problem. And we need solution. Yeah. And as Usually, these, these little nasty grams get responded to. So, we'll just. But,

Jamie: 2:35

you know, this is, you know, we are in season seven. Seven. And this is at least 170 episodes into this foray. So, we would love some technical assistance.

Kurt Neiswender: 2:52

Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, for all our friends and family that are regular listeners, You know, we catch us on the side of the stage or something, you know, off, off, off, off screen or whatever, you know, we talk about the, the details, but, but thanks for joining as, as this is the only architecture coffee sketch podcast that is live streamed on Twitch and YouTube. So, so Jamie, I have to jump right to the coffee. If there is, it's going to elicit banter, I know. So for those that are watching, be prepared. This is what I've been living, breathing, and now drinking all week. Is the only coffee brewed and delivered by the Detroit Lions. Ferris Coffee Company. Den Blend Dark Roast, if you can read the label. Did

Jamie: 3:59

Dan Campbell bring it to your house?

Kurt Neiswender: 4:02

Yeah, he, he bit my kneecap. He is an Aggie. Is he really? I missed, I didn't even know that. What a crazy tie. Well, he bit my kneecap and threw this bag of coffee at me. This side, this bag is fantastic for, for a branded thing. I'll get to the coffee tasting notes in a second, but on the front, we got the lion's look, I got to get it in front of the camera, the lion's logo, you know, front's pretty, all the descriptors. On the side, oof, one pride, as is like the tagline for the Lions has been all year. And then on the other side, it says Lions. And on the back it says, thank you for being a fan, we had a great run, and five turnovers just can't win a game. I'm not gonna talk, I'm not gonna talk trash. Anybody who enjoys the game of football would know that, yeah, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough grind. No pun intended when you turn over the ball that much and in the NFC division round there. So so that's, so I purchased this in preparation to, to absorb as much lion's pride as I could all week and to no avail, Jamie. Yeah, eggy and my head coach. We, we we missed it this year, but have faith

Jamie: 5:42

sometimes, you know, it's, it's those crazy sports superstitions, you know, and I was joking with somebody, you know, that it's, you know, I am definitely one who's not like I don't believe in a whole lot of hocus pocus. The, the,

Kurt Neiswender: 5:59

the woo woo, the superstition.

Jamie: 6:01

Yeah. But I, but I, but I am a bit superstitious with certain things, right? Yeah. Yeah. So.

Kurt Neiswender: 6:06

Sure, sure.

Jamie: 6:06

And you know, I think that, you know, a lot of that has to do with my affinity for the sports. Is that, you know, as a, you know, as a fan, right, you, you can appreciate those connections. And for us, you know, I think it's very on brand of you to, you know, bring up, you know, Detroit lion coffee branded merchandise, you know, which I will say, you know, as, as you kind of walk this through the branding of the package. Pretty spot on. I, I, definite, definite props to the eye

Kurt Neiswender: 6:41

catcher

Jamie: 6:42

to the, to the marketing team there. That's, that's pretty good stuff. So,

Kurt Neiswender: 6:45

and I didn't actually for miss the tasting notes, but it tastes

Jamie: 6:49

great,

Kurt Neiswender: 6:49

even better, right? Even better. It's a dark roast. Ferris is, I got to remember they're on the west side, Grand Rapids, Michigan. So they're a local small batch. coffee roaster. I, I have probably had some Ferris stuff in the past. And you know, over seven years of doing this, I don't remember what episode, but I'll have to get some more, but it's a good, it's a good dark roast. You know, they're not the kind of roasting, they're not the kind of company that would name the coffee kneecap or something like that. You know, like our friends at rootless, you know, They might do that, but all in all, you know, it is, it is though. There it is. It's on the bag. It's official coffee of the Detroit lions.

Jamie: 7:40

That's, that's saying something. I can't say,

Kurt Neiswender: 7:44

you know, we also have the, so somewhere in the state, you know, the official rapper of the Detroit lions, right? It's probably Eminem, right? Right.

Jamie: 7:54

Has somebody checked on him to make sure he's okay after that game?

Kurt Neiswender: 7:58

Not me. I don't anybody. I'm just, I'm

Jamie: 8:01

saying in the, in the, you know, phraseology. That one will use when somebody is in the super fandom and then has a, I hope

Kurt Neiswender: 8:11

so,

Jamie: 8:11

like, is, like, is your buddy Cormac, your teaching buddy? Is he okay? Like, has he,

Kurt Neiswender: 8:16

Yeah, TBD. Okay. I think the bandaid, the wound is still fresh.

Jamie: 8:22

Oh, yeah. Don't, that's not, you know, when this episode comes out

Kurt Neiswender: 8:25

by the next episode, we, when we talk the next time, I'll give you the check ins from, from the game, but okay.

Jamie: 8:34

Okay, fair enough.

Kurt Neiswender: 8:35

So what about you, sir?

Jamie: 8:36

So I, I went with the similar to you, you know, talking about a coffee purveyor local that you might not have had in a while. I went with recently with a different one. Cause I was, you know, I was talking about that kick ass coffee which I still have and not much left, but I have, it was good. But along those lines thought, you know, Okay. It was time to find something else and went local with Greater Goods Coffee and it's sort of forgotten about them a little bit. I feel bad, but coffee is really great and all of their coffee, they tie it to a cause that they support so each, each different flavor or, you know, bag, you know, whatever blend that they've got, it's tied to a charity. You know, that they're, that they're, you know, a sponsor of and so, yeah, and they also have a one that I haven't gotten, I almost, I've, I've thought about kind of going back to get, it's for the Lunar New Year, I was like, maybe I need to get still time but the one I got was, it's called Take Me Home it's a Costa Rican blend and has some kind of interesting sort of toffee Kind of flavor to it. I know that you're, you know, you do like your, I like that. Yeah, so I figured you're starting

Kurt Neiswender: 9:55

to sound good

Jamie: 9:55

Yeah, I thought you might like that. But I think you also appreciate the cause that it it supports there's a Animal shelter here in Austin called Austin pets alive. And so they that's that particular bag You know and blend Supports that cause so that's cool

Kurt Neiswender: 10:17

Yeah, our furry friends, you know, tying back to Michigan, it is two or three degrees as, as we record. Oh, sorry. Zero. Okay. It's no lie. It says zero degrees. And so thinking about our furry friends that, you know, are maybe considered outside pets because some people still do that in Michigan, even in Michigan.

Jamie: 10:43

Oh my gosh.

Kurt Neiswender: 10:44

And so, yeah, I don't want to I don't want to dampen the mood, but I had a local neighborhood. Our neighborhood is we're not a or anything like that. But, you know, we're old timey flint neighborhood association and they did put an email out, like, you know, encouraging people to bring their pets inside. Because, I mean, It's been brutally cold for extended days, and you're getting it too, supposedly. I don't know, you could give us the report from, from down south, because I heard you, did you get snow? I did.

Jamie: 11:19

Wow. We did get snow overnight in, in Austin, Texas. Is it, is it still there, or is it kind of melted off? No, it's melted off. I'm going to, I'm going to be generous, and I'm going to say inch, inch and a half, maybe two inches.

Kurt Neiswender: 11:35

Wow. That's not pretty. I mean, even, even an inch for snow in the south, let's say, so not, not expected. Yeah, no, no, but I mean, I don't know if you could see out there, but there's over multiple events, you know, there's three or four inches of snow. We get a little dust like every day.

Jamie: 11:57

Yeah, see, but that's the thing is that you're getting like the dust that kind of keeps, keeps, you know, like you've got that sort of icy kind of buildup layer and then going to build up off from there. This is like a, this is a one timer, right? So that's why like it melts. You might get some ice, black ice kind of thing to worry about. I don't think that's going to be a worry here. What's the

Kurt Neiswender: 12:18

temp now though? Has it gotten back up?

Jamie: 12:21

It's 32.

Kurt Neiswender: 12:22

Oh, so it's still right at freezing. Yeah. I mean,

Jamie: 12:25

it went up a little higher. It's supposed

Kurt Neiswender: 12:27

to be a hit in the South pretty hard though. Yeah. I mean, there's probably other, I mean, you know, we, we've talked and I've used. The Texas ice storm as a precedent in my, my class, you know, about climate change. The one that like

Jamie: 12:46

is like a trigger for me. That one, that ice storm.

Kurt Neiswender: 12:49

Okay. Yeah. The bad one. I mean, you know, the grid and everything, which you and I were talking offline, you know, about hoping that that you wouldn't get a round two of any, you know, but given, you know, given what's going on in California with the fires and. And these, this isn't the first wave of cold. I don't want to turn this into the resiliency and climate change podcast, but it's been, I mean, as architects, this is stuff we talk about. I mean, maybe people don't know, not everybody may realize that we do, but as architects yeah, this is the kind of thing we do talk about. These affect our, our, our clients, our homeowners, our, our business owners, you know?

Jamie: 13:37

Yeah. And I think it's, it's the thing that it's. Whether it's, you know, outwardly spoken of kind of in those, in those terms, it's, it's things that, you know, from a building performance kind of standpoint, it's things that we have to be considering. And I was this past week I got to participate as a guest. I was an invited guest to the Texas Society of Architects Leadership Retreat. And so which brings together

Kurt Neiswender: 14:06

strategic counselor,

Jamie: 14:08

yeah, as a strategic counselor, I was, I was invited as a guest, which was nice. But the I'm not representing Texas. I'm an at large counselor, even though I'm in Texas and Texas has represented race

Kurt Neiswender: 14:19

at large, either way, but

Jamie: 14:22

I'm there, you know, and, and it's a lot, it was, it was really nice to see a lot of familiar faces and a lot of new faces. But it brings together their board, right? So they're, they're state level board of architects. There's a public member as well. An educator member student member, all that, you know, or associate members. And but it also, you know, brought together a lot of chapter leadership. So, you know, local leaders, this is the one meeting that they kind of bring a lot of local leaders in as well. So really kind of really great representation of the state and what was nice about it was they sort of talked about sort of big picture, you know, you know, strategic goals. Like, what are we talking about? You know, let's all get on the same page. It's a legislative year, you know, there's, you know, which regardless of whether it is or it isn't, you know, like it's all be sort of talking about the same thing as architects. And I, I, I mentioned this because what you just said is that, you know, we, as architects do talk about these things, we do talk about resilience, we do talk about these issues that are in the, in the civic realm you know, in our lives where we live, work and play and how it relates to our own work or our own expertise as a profession and you. It was what, what was interesting was one of the strategic aims of the state organization for architecture in Texas was talking about resilience. And so somebody kind of brought up that they're, it's nice to see that the national organization, state organization and local organizations are all. You know, all highlighting that as something that that needs to be done and in, like you said, in, in the context of both the winter storms, but also the things that are happening in California. What was an interesting wrinkle in that conversation was somebody also pointed out that you know, some people will start to use phrases like climate action or you know, finding ways to address climate action or, you know, promoting climate action or addressing climate change in relationship to architectural discussions and another person kind of brought up the counterpoint of, I think it's better to be using the term resilience because it resonates with broader swath not political in a sense, I and because it, because then it's, it's talking about kind of a collective of, of all people, you know, the, the public at large, and, and it doesn't sort of address, it doesn't sort of, you know, trying to use it, but like polarized, polarized. Thank you. I mean, not, not trying to polarize people with terms that, you know, inadvertently have become loaded. Yeah. So

Kurt Neiswender: 17:11

far, resiliency and resilient design has not yet been Eroded or or what's what was the word you just used? A lightning rod, but yeah, it says it might. Well, if people try and use it, hopefully not. But I mean, I think people, I think majority of public. And practitioners, you know, those in the know, and those that are benefiting from good resilient design strategies. See the term is resiliency as a very collective, like you said positive benefit, you know, all around it

Jamie: 17:50

because it's not just regardless of, yeah, it's not just the building, right? It's the businesses that are in there. It's the people's livelihoods. It's the people's lives. Literally, you know, it's, it's their homes. And, and us as designers of the public realm if we're not Thinking about these things and bringing in sort of thought leader expertise, you know, to those kinds of conversations and realizing that it is multi layered, right? It's talking about codes. It's talking about design practice. It's talking about materials. It's talking about where we are in the country. You know, and who's using the building. All, you know, all, you know, and I'm only just sort of, you know, scratching the surface on it. But it's I mean, I'm

Kurt Neiswender: 18:35

sorry. It was

Jamie: 18:37

sort of interesting to, to see a point and a counterpoint so closely tied together, literally over terminology. In a room full of architects. Thanks. I mean, it was like, you know, you're, you're kind of wondering, like, I'm just sort of at this and as a guest, I just was eating it up a little bit. Cause it was just like, wow, this is, this is really interesting.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:02

Yeah.

Jamie: 19:04

It was astute, but it was, it was very interesting.

Kurt Neiswender: 19:07

Yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad that, I'm sure some people have, everyone will have an opinion about it, but I think the conversation was worth having. And the other thing I was trying to interrupt you with was I had, I had, I have a very small role in, in helping A fellow architect in L. A. Move something forward with a house that he designed years past that burned in in the Palisades fire. Oh, which was I mean, it's it's, it's. Nothing, but because we have this network of architect friends that we, that we, you know, we work with and, and, and, and help each other. He, he just needed some files converted, right? I mean, he designed the house 10 or 12 years ago. And no longer have that particular software and I had it and was able to translate the file from 1 to another very simple, but it helps. Move, you know, move the bar. You know, or move the ball forward, so to speak, and you know, who knows, you know, but I mean, it's, it's just, that's part of the part of the day to day to in this resiliency that you speak of is, you know, having the files or the data, you know, even available is, is part of a resilient strategy. So it's in small part, but like, well, and it's, there's a lot of little folds to

Jamie: 20:49

it. It's funny because it's, you're, you're bringing up things that it, you know, I think are, you know, the tragic aspect of this, that a lot of people speak to is that, you know, until something like this happens to either someone, you know, or someone you care about and you, and you hear they're, they're part of that story. It doesn't sort of shine the light on all the aspects. You know, of, like you say, of your day to day that it, that it, it starts to affect. I think that, you know, we've known that there's a housing crisis, you know, all kinds, all places all across the country. And in California, it's obviously absolutely unique because, you know, the cost of housing there. But I think what it's brought to bear is just the, just from a conceptual point of view, insurance on houses. And how that industry is, is, is getting affected and is affecting, you know, and will affect the rebuild. So in the work that I do because a lot of the buildings that we, we work on, and even the ones that you've been participating there in Detroit and in Flint, you know, of a historic nature, it's sometimes very difficult to get the level of insurance for those buildings that you need because the insurance industry is sort of, you know you know, you know, found ways to basically, you know, uninsure, you know, or underinsure a lot of those properties and, and that's, that's a reality of this predicament that we're finding ourselves in where we're saying we can't build our way out of it and some of the adaptive reuse strategies that you're teaching in school, I'm working on and in practice that are going to be necessary for some of these rebuild efforts. Some of that's going to be affected by this as well. And I think that's just, it's an interesting thing that, you know, unfortunately, until something like these events start to happen, you know, and bring it to bear we don't have the conversations at the level we need to.

Kurt Neiswender: 22:49

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for all. I mean, it makes me feel a little bit sad. I was just talking about the Detroit lions loss, but yeah,

Jamie: 23:00

well, You're sad now, and we're about to like, we're about to go even darker here in a moment, so this, this is that episode, folks. No, this

Kurt Neiswender: 23:09

is good. I mean, this is, I love the aspect of, I mean, you know what, for, for those that watch live and or listen, I hope you appreciate the, how do I describe it? I don't want to necessarily say it's tangential to a point of distraction, but This is the meat and potatoes of how Jamie and I think as architects practicing in two different parts of the country, but affected by the same things at some point, you know, right now it's a weather pattern, right? I mean, you know, we talked about resilient design as a common sort of Position regarding weather. And right now, you know, how often, Jamie, how often do you get snow in Austin?

Jamie: 23:58

That would be about once every two years, three, four years, maybe even.

Kurt Neiswender: 24:04

Right. So, you know, those calendars where it goes zero days from previous incident. So now you're changing your calendar from 560 to, you know, zero or one. One day from from snow snow event. So anyway, not to not to try and make light of things But to try and sort of create a bit of a pivot because we're about to go back into a bit of a sad conversation with sketches But yeah, anyway, stop me if I'm going off on the tangent but well these are the kinds of things that that we think about on a daily basis and and Talking about it with you is is helpful Even to me, you know, just kind of thinking through, you know, even as I approach, how do I bring, I love to bring up current events with my students. They may or may not love it as much as I do, but hopefully they understand why. It matters so much.

Jamie: 25:09

Well, and that might be the Gen X er in you. Like, because I think Well, we

Kurt Neiswender: 25:15

all grew up with We all had that one teacher,

Jamie: 25:18

Yeah, we all had that one teacher who had that as sort of the, the opening salvo in a class. You know, and, you know, You guys don't know what's going on in the world. You know,

Kurt Neiswender: 25:28

so we're going to introduce, So you, oh, Now you've told all my students that are listening that, This is where, Kurt's just retreading an old social studies is what it's called. Yeah, it's like 7th, 7th,

Jamie: 25:42

7th grade social studies.

Kurt Neiswender: 25:44

Oh, thanks a lot, Jamie. Wow. Well, I can always count on you for throwing me under the bus. So, I, I decided to change the subject and move to our sketches, or sketch.

Jamie: 25:58

And another level of nostalgia,

Kurt Neiswender: 26:00

I've got to move this move this subtitle. So, you know, You know, actually, you know, it's a great segue. Current events is our, our instigator, our inspiration many times of the podcast. And for many of our architect friends in the design community, not just architects, but design community, film community, right? David Lynch has passed away. And I mean, on our podcast, we've talked about Twin Peaks numerous times. We've had special guests. On episode 50. I will never

Jamie: 26:40

forget. Yeah, go back to episode 50, folks

Kurt Neiswender: 26:43

with Jason.

Jamie: 26:44

We'll put a link to episode 50 in the show notes for this one. Just extra special.

Kurt Neiswender: 26:49

Yeah. And so David Lynch, the creator of Twin Peaks and Mohan Drive and any, any and many of the movies and TV shows that you probably thought were weird. Eraserhead. Blue Velvet. Blue Velvet. Oh, no way.

Jamie: 27:06

Yeah, Blue

Kurt Neiswender: 27:06

Velvet. I'm, I'm, I'm catching up on all the all the ties and all the connections. But yeah, David Lynch, Passaway. So, Jamie has you know, ready to go. Lost Highway.

Jamie: 27:15

Don't forget Lost Highway. That's a, that one's a, that one's

Kurt Neiswender: 27:21

a lot. I still, I will, I will never forget, Blue Velvet. Mulholland Drive. Mulholland Drive is And if you've ever been, you know, the thing about, I mean, I don't want to create this awkward connection, but, you know, Mulholland, I mean, you know, pulling in those L. A. fires in the Palisades, the fire has, has burned up to and over Mulholland Drive. In the hill. In the, in the, in that zone that like, the movie kind of takes place. is in this quasi zone on the peak of the ridge. And, you know, it's kind of an interesting, it's all kinds of odd little connections this week, I suppose, to to art and culture and pop culture and, and the, and, and current events as, as we've been describing. But yeah, I think I, I liked it. I took, it took me many viewings and probably many more. And actually after we record tonight, it. I might go rewatch some of, some of it again out of homage, a good one.

Jamie: 28:29

It's very good. Very good. And if you haven't seen it, highly recommend Mohon drive for those who, I'm

Kurt Neiswender: 28:36

sorry. Yeah. I know you were, you were mentioning a bunch of the other ones but on the left, I'll just point out and then I'll let you talk because I've been chewing all the air airspace on the left is that view of the lodge. In Twin Peaks and on the right with the double R coffee mug as we've been, we were talking about coffee mugs, Denny's mugs last week. Now, we're talking about fictitious diners, the double R. And a a sketch of Tweety's Cafe, which is the setting for the double R. From Twin Peaks. So, and it's funny as, sorry, I promised and I lied, but I will say, we wanted to, we were kicking around what we were going to talk about and James, you know, you know, David Lynch passed away this week and James was like, hold on, let me email you the picture, the sketch. So now I'm done. Yeah,

Jamie: 29:38

no, no. So this was, this had to be the sketch this week. And, and, and Kurt's absolutely, you know, accurate. We did a quick audible to start off this planning for this episode Kurt had a plan for this episode, folks. He had a different plan. Just tune in next week and we'll do that plan. But this is as we just started to connect and start to talk about topics, we realized both of us that this is really where we needed to be. And the, the sketch is one that I did this past summer. So I, I finally got to make the trip. And you know, I made the trip out there. With our good friend Jason who shares a birthday with Kurt and his brother. And, you know, was in episode 50 with us here talking about just sort of the joy and affinity that we have for film and surrealism and design and creativity and storytelling, mystery, and all those types of things associated with Twin Peaks. And and the work of David Lynch.

Kurt Neiswender: 30:47

Yeah, which the most astonishing fact because I wasn't original. I was not an original watcher, right? And when it was out, you guys put me on to it much later in life, the fact that they could produce that kind of a show for a regular weekly episodic what do you call it? Network TV back in the day when that thing was when that was a thing. For a storyline like Twin Peaks was unheard of I mean nowadays you could probably see something like Twin Peaks on a Netflix or a Hulu or or one of the streaming networks because there's so you know the certain genres or whatever that would you know sort of fit in their arsenal or Offering or whatever you want to call it, but there was no such thing when Twin Peaks was on TV. It was It was on and prime time and that's what you got. And if you were

Jamie: 31:48

like, if you tuned in for that first episode and you know, went through the, the opening sequence, which includes this photograph it is a real place folks. And you know, it, it, what's interesting to me is that it never looked this pretty. Like it was pretty, but it never looked this bright and cheery. Like that looks very bright and cheery. Yeah, more gray. So when I, when I saw it in real life and sort of took the picture, it's sort of like, oh yeah, it's, it's definitely had a different kind of feeling about it,

Kurt Neiswender: 32:20

but I almost thought there was some AI added to this image because it's so bright and green.

Jamie: 32:26

Yeah, exactly.

Kurt Neiswender: 32:27

Very lush.

Jamie: 32:28

But it's, you know, I think that. You know, you're tuning in and you go through that sequence, that opening sequence, and you're like, Oh, this is about a place. And it's like, it's this town and, and it's sort of setting up the setting and the architecture and the environment are all part. It is a character. I mean, Twin Peaks, you know, as a fictitious city is sort of, you know, it is a character in the show in and of itself which I don't know if, you know, as a. You know, a teenager, I don't know if that was something that was even something I'd ever seen before in that kind of a you know, world building, you know, that's the term we use now, you sort of this world, world building and, you know, Curt and I have obvious affection for film and films influence in sort of popular cultures influence on architecture and art and our own work. You know, for, you know, for, from a variety of different perspectives and, and directions and connections, but this is one of those things that definitely is a touchstone for me. And I, I, when I posted this the other day, it, you know, it's not just this though, it's also a touchstone to the people that I got to connect with over this pop culture moment. And that it still resonates even for me today. And, and even David Lynch's work as sort of a, you know a creative and as a filmmaker and as an artist. I think it's that appreciation for those types of people. And then the connection that I've had with friends who can also appreciate that and, and has, you know, spawned other influences and, and whatnot. That's, you know, that's, that's where my head went, you know, with all this at the, at the, you know, with the news, you know, kind of as of his passing and all that,

Kurt Neiswender: 34:16

you know, you're, you're right, the, the place, the Twin Peaks city or town that it was set in is the character similarly like Mulholland Drive, right? Like that, the road or the, the stretch, you know, cause it's about kind of movement across this. Terrain is another character. And so it's not to say that Lynch had a one, he wasn't, you know, one trick pony, you know, don't, don't get me wrong. He's, he was, it was not about that, but it's about, it's the storytelling. And I find, I've heard many statistics or not statistics per se, but right. Human. Species, right, is, is different in many ways, right, than all other species on earth. But one of them is because of our ability to articulate in language. And, and because of that, now we, we can tell stories. And, and our brains kind of grasp or visualize and grasp onto that. And I always thought, like, and I, I, I don't know if I've quite. I haven't gotten there yet, but like the image on the left, right? The picture of the lodge and the, and the, the, the setting of Twin Peaks and, and even Tweety's, right? The, the, the angle of the camera that, that focuses on or the double R, but you know, Tweety's in this case the, the, the, the angle, the, the perspective, right? Is, is, how, how can. How can we imbue more storytelling and architecture as is something that's always crossed my mind? And more so lately, right? You know, are we talking like, say, offline about just doing the work, right? Being business owners and generating projects and, you know, paying bills and all that stuff. But then is that project really telling a story for either me or the client? Or the city that it's in and I'm not trying to say that like only you can only take projects like that tell stories, but There's a certain aspect of how Like for example, I guess I I was hanging out with a bunch of neighbors a couple weeks ago at our local little watering hole And they're all faculty at a university here in town And you know, I, one of them hadn't seen me in a while and was like, oh, what have you been up to? And then I showed him some pictures of a house I designed the renovation for of a client who happened to also be the the Or the son of the client is one of his faculty friends right there. There's all these little connections, but I was showing the pictures and I was trying to, I was basically describing why I made certain design, because it was a, it was a renovation and I cleaned up previous bad additions because it was an old farmhouse. It's over a hundred year old farmhouse and I had to. Kind of basically remove the bad roof lines of the additions and clean it all up and then I was pointing out like What? What elements I was trying to align to right to the old house? that we were keeping the roof line and and other elements and What new stuff we were trying to to match up to and it's not about perfection and and matchy matchy but it was about Certain proportions just make sense, and, and how you create that addition in the right way, and, and I don't want to Well, and it's,

Jamie: 38:10

it's recognition of the form, right, and, and the story of the building to begin with, and, and that alignment of the things that you're going to propose and then obviously have executed. Is that's the storytelling that we do in our work to, you know, sometimes it's all internal, right? And I think that's sort of what you're getting at is, is sometimes as designers who are working individually or in teams, we're, we're telling ourselves the story of what we're doing. And then I think the trick then is that we also have an opportunity to share that with other people. And. And tell versions of that story that, that align with what's being built or in this case, you know, there's, you know, with film, you know, you're, you are creating a narrative, but also the setting and the shots, you know, the sequence of shots, the framing of a shot the, the context that you're putting the, the, the story in as well as the characters, you know, there's a relationship there between the art and the architecture. That I think is really palpable and I think it's, it's for us as designers, we can draw inspiration from those moments, whether it's being explained to us that way or not. It's like when you and I talk about our love for when we go on these trips to conferences and whatnot and have the opportunity to explore and inhabit a space, it's, we're, we're experiencing that story of that place in real time. And, and if we're there with friends. You know, we're exchanging our own reactions to it and sort of telling ourselves those stories, and I think that as an educator, or in my case, you know, sometimes it's, you're, you're talking to a group of people who are curious about the value of design or preservation, and so you have to tell them a story too. And, you know, that's where these types of artists like David Lynch and creatives like that, even in a different medium, you know, provide that sort of inspiration to our own work. You know, and if, if, I'll just say it this way, is that the architects who are comfortable with this conversation, That's kind of my tribe. That's your tribe.

Kurt Neiswender: 40:45

Oh, yeah, that's a good point. But I think I was, as I was saying, describe, so I guess I feel like that, that one project. It's not a huge project. This is a small little old farmhouse in Michigan. And, but just, I had so much excitement or enjoyment just describing why I made certain design decisions. You know, and, and, and then budget, you know, it's like, it's not the first question that comes up, but, you know, it supports those decisions too. And then I realized when I left that, and, and then my neighbor who was asking me about all these, the, the, the photo, I was just showing them photos. You know, I didn't need to show them floor plans or anything, sections and details and all that stuff. I was just pointing it like, here's the old house, here's the new house. And this is why this roof line and the, the eave and, and the overhang and all that are, are newly constructed this way because now it cleans up all the problems, that, you know, and anyway, it was I don't know. That was a moment where I was like, okay, this is the storytelling that architecture needs to do more of, I need to do more of is really the point. And, and, and by talking about Lynch. As one of our inspirations is, is just, just brought that out of me is, is, is sort of remembering like how, okay, now I need to connect those dots a little bit more often. And I think, I think you do that quite a bit too. Maybe you don't realize it right in your work with the, the state commission with your sketches with your main street folks. From town to town, right? You're trying to generate that narrative and and like this like your sketch of the double R for Twin Peaks is sort of a representation of like the image that can You know burn into people's brains or was already So any fan of Twin Peaks is is burned into their brain you do that for the Main Street folks Right just sort of plant the image Of like, yeah, it may look like this now, but this is what kind of, of building it can be once restored to the fabric of the urban, you know, the, the, the street life that it, it currently lives in. So,

Jamie: 43:23

yeah, I, it's, you know the work that we do is we problem solve at the level of, you know, big ideas, like we were talking about kind of at the beginning of this episode, but, you know, at, at the end of the day, we are telling stories. You know, we're kind of curating that narrative or those inspirations to help tell that narrative or in, like, as you just described, and I, I appreciate is you know, that that sketch is suggestive of an imagined possibility for, for, you know, someone that I'm meeting with and, and that if you can, if you can spark that interest, just like the conversation that you were having about the project. Thank you. You know, the old farmhouse it, if you can spark that interest and show the image, whether it's a sketch or a photograph and weave that narrative and explain the why I think, you know, we're not be afraid to talk about the why it's not a state secret, you know, it's not, you know, some intellectual property. That's so sacred. It's, it's the design process. It's, it's our level of creativity, or we, you know, we will often say us as creatives, you know sharing a little bit of that piece of ourselves in a story, you know, talking about the why that's, it, it, it sure feels special.

Kurt Neiswender: 44:53

Yeah. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. That, that statement of, I don't want to belabor any longer, but the why I've struggled with, right. It's not a very easy thing to, to sort of capture or, or like document. And I feel like now, you know, just through this conversation we've just had, I, I feel like I might have actually figured out at least one way through this one project and how can I translate that to, to, to more of the work that I do on a day to day, day to day basis because the get to the why is, is kind of a thing, right? People say it a lot. I don't, I don't know if they all necessarily know what they're saying.

Jamie: 45:42

Or if they all mean it, mean it the way we do. Right,

Kurt Neiswender: 45:45

yeah. But

Jamie: 45:46

I think it's a beautiful thing to maybe end this episode with you having a little level of epiphany to that story for yourself. And, you know, I, I think that it's a, it's a good place for us to say, you know you know, cheers to a creative that we both were inspired by. And I don't think that's going to make us stop talking about Twin Peaks, or influence of film in our architecture. But yeah, this was a good one.

Kurt Neiswender: 46:12

Yeah, thanks. And next week, a recap of Mulholland Drive.